Why Do Men Feel Like They Are Constantly Being Rejected? 

The problem with going to bars to meet people is that you meet people who go to bars.

One real imbalance I see between straight men and straight women is that for straight women, it's much more socially acceptable to rely on other women for emotional intimacy and physical affection. For straight men, it's not as socially acceptable to get these needs met by other men, or anyone except for a romantic partner. This imbalance, I think, contributes to men feeling lonelier and more desperate for relationships than women, overall. It's not the only factor, but it's something I didn't hear anyone mention on the stream.

The problem I see with the mentallity of "be yourself" is that all rejections starts to hit the very core of you. If you have a "public persona" or a "thing to blame" then it doesn´t hurts as much - you can change, adjust, rethink. But when you keep getting rejected over and over and over for who you really are then you can start to reject your own self and that is very problematic.

3:03:43 "It's not my place to debate him into submission. It's my place to learn from him. It's my place to investigate. It's my place to try to understand what's the reality of the situation we're facing right now." Well said, Dr. K.

I think that one important part of people feeling rejected or lonely, regardless of gender, is that friendship circles and amount of time spent with friends are getting smaller. There’s plenty of research showing these stats, and my personal conclusion would be that you develop less social skills socialising with different people. In 1985 most people met their partner through friends, which is less and less likely the less time you spend with friends and the less friends you have. If I think of my dad for example, growing up in the 70s and 80s, he spent most of his free time with different friends, doing group activities like roller skating, playing board games or going to the beach swimming. I don’t see that group activities is the default thing to do anymore, the default is more like binging GOT or watching RU-vid or something else with technology. Another result of the internet is that you don’t have to interact with someone you feel a bit awkward with if you don’t want, you can go online and find people that are just like you. It’s like now the choice is between somewhat random people that happen to be in your proximity or online people that can be any type of people you want, and you can choose which side of them you engage with. In the 70s the choice was the people in your proximity or to be alone. All in all, I think it’s very hard to find a partner if you don’t spend time with other people, and our culture is moving more and more towards isolation and technology and further away from genuine personal connections. That’s just my thoughts though, interested to hear what the community thinks

I would just like to note and make it clear to all the fellas that it is not good to use dating apps as an example of how things are in real life. These apps are designed to make money from advertisements and keep you on the app as long as possible. They purposefully don’t show you in the stack to the profiles that you like and they almost shadow ban you in a way from being able to match with any girls just so you constantly stay on the app and keep swiping. If they actually made it legit and did what they said and got you a match, you wouldn’t be on the app as long and they would make less money.

Q: Why do men feel like they're constantly being rejected? A: Because they are.

Love that there are "red pill" conversations in this channel too. It gives everyone a better perspective of both sides since Dr.K is so great at asking good questions.

The fear women have with the pushy guys that they have to fear also affects the normal men. I've intentionally not asked women out before because I didn't want them to feel afraid to reject me if they didn't want to go out with me. And then if I decide to go ahead and ask someone out anyway, I want them to feel confident to know they can say no, which necessarily means that I'm projecting a lack of confidence by giving them so many outs and ways to say "no".

When no one ever expresses any sign of interest in you, it's hard not to internalize the feeling that you're just fundamentally unlovable. Then you end up rejecting yourself over and over. At least, that's what I've always done.

The guy is actually wise noticing that there’s not some reason to fix why he’s single. We all try to blame ourselves or fix it, but it can be hard to find someone even if you have a whole lot going for you.

I think people just don't realize how hard it is to find someone to be in a relationship with (a la compatibility). And that singleness is more common than we realize. Things like insecurities, compatibility, work-life balance, availability, looks, financial stability, high standards, being your "best self", hobbies are only some of many paradigms that go into finding a relationship. Trying to come up with generalizing theories about genders or "gamifying" or quantifying relationships will never change the fact that if you're looking for a relationship, you are only working with the person in front of you, with their own unique perspectives, interests and understandings of life, never concrete and always changing. To me there really aren't any hard "rules" that work for everyone but there are better ways to approach and understand people in order to build better relationships with others. And sometimes things work out, sometimes things don't. Even outside of relationships, that's life.

I worked through all of this, feeling rejected and worthless, never having any success with dating, and feeling like trying was hopeless. In retrospect, I can say confidently that the problem stemmed primarily from two things. I had worthlessness trauma and I had so little socialization with women that they felt like a different species. I had no idea why any woman might want me, the trauma to confirm and hold onto that thought, and no women in my life to show me otherwise. The hell of it was the trauma didn't budge until way later. I had to just drudge through that telling myself what I knew in my bones was true wasn't. The other part was just a lot of social activities with women. Now that I've come out the other side I can say that women will like you for almost no reason at all. You don't need to be, do, or say anything at all, they'll just like you and that's value enough for them. But you can't come out the other side of that without a year or two of discomfort pushing into social situations and heavy trauma feelings. Emotional awareness and putting in the reps in social situations with women was the only way I was ever going to get through that emotional place I was in. To all my girlfriendless brothers, listen to me, women are derps, have no idea what they want, have as much trauma as you just a different kind, and they will be your girlfriend for little more reason than they kind of like your face and you spoke to them on the right day. All that is required of you is to not scare them. I swear to god my first three girlfriends all I did was spend enough time with them for them to feel safe with me. You can do it guys. If my derpity 35 year old virgin ass could do it, anyone can.

Dr K. That was by some degree of luck the greatest stream you've ever had because of the amount of unity and understanding you were able to bring to these communities in only one day. THANK YOU SO MUCH.

I totally agree that confidence and self love are your birthright. And experience tends to beat it out of you. But I think grieving your bad experiences is a way to clear off the mud that's gotten caked on your soul, and then confidence naturally returns.

My grandparents who married at age 20 in 1920, were together and in love (sparks, and eyes lighting up when the other walked into the room) until they both passed at 86 years old. But here is my point. They had different spheres of activity. They did not have to be each other's only best friend and confidant, they each had a lot of daily interaction with their own friends and activities, separate from each other, and contributed to the family and the extended family in ways which showed they were a team but they had different skills different input and were just not "together' in the way people are expected to be today.

1:26:05 That upward tone in his voice made me so happy as a fellow struggling man. He sounded just like me when i find something about myself that i like. We're all gonna make it!

I had a different thought about Tommy's point. More than self sabotage I have personally felt I need to perform and I don't mean this in the sense of faking who I am for someone but more feeling like I can only bring the best version of myself or else the girl I'm dating will leave me and go find someone else.

I'm married now, so this is all in the past. But way back in college, I could not tell that a guy was interested in me unless he was so pushy I felt threatened. Looking back, and being able to read body language better, I had some pretty decent choices, but it never crossed my mind that they had any interest in me. I did a lot of what the 2nd female caller described as thinking bids for my attention were not serious. So the result is I only dated one guy in college. And I would chronically end up with people making comments about how they could not understand why I was single because of my looks. I also dealt with those pushier options essentially telling me to my face that they thought I was pretty, but they had a list of things about me that they wanted to change starting with my introversion, and usually involving what I enjoyed doing for fun. To the 2nd guy: You need to start asking out people who are "out of your league." My husband was convinced that he was out of my league. His mother was convinced too the first time she saw me (hadn't even met me yet). The reality is: I married a guy who is very easy to live with, very kind, very responsible, very thoughtful, and a long list of other fantastic traits. He is tall, relatively fit (something I encourage because exercise for health reasons was and is important to me). My husband doesn't look like a model. He's balding, and he was balding in his 20s, when I met him. Let the women figure out who is "not in their league." My husband treated me well, and we very quickly figured out we had a lot in common. He didn't have a list of changes to make in me because he liked the things that other guys rejected (2nd date ended up in a bookstore with each of us separately terrified we'd end up ignoring our date because of "books"). That goes a long way in changing your "league" especially in your 30s.

Its never really the rejections, it's the way the rejection happens. Men need to realize she just may not be into you as much as you are, yeah it sucks but it happens. But the way ladies reject can be brutal: the disgusting look, the down to your core verbal insult, etc. rofl

Sooo good!!! I had to listen half of it at work and the rest while commuting and back home. I couldn't turn it off. Thanks to all involved, the chat was super interesting and of course the callers!

Hi hi, first caller here! I wanted to say a few things that I regrettably didn’t get to talk about on stream today due to the nature of the conversation. First of all I want to thank Dr K and his staff for getting me on the stream today in the first place. I don’t normally do these things as they make me feel awkward and anxious, but this time I thought “heck whatever I’ll try it!” Thank you to chat and the HGG servers for being supportive, as well. Ofc I understand my story wasn’t relatable to everyone, nor even helpful, but my goal was never to teach. Only to share. I’ve been told by one person or two that they related to my story and that it was helpful someway (both genders!), so I’m happy regardless. ❤️ Suffering can’t be measured. Men and women face different problems, we all get rejected one way or another. Relationships, jobs, parents, friendships… we’re all human and we all feel it. We’re a lot more equal than we think, and I don’t mean that in an SJW way, it’s genuinely true. We feel the same emotions, after all. Which is why I shared my experience when Dr K asked. And which is why women were featured in today’s video. Though I understand this is a topic on men… I did speak to other men about this topic beforehand, and the similarity was always that they felt they needed to be someone else in order to be liked. They didn’t feel like they were enough, and I’ve seen that happen many times. It’s terrible, and insightful. The person from the past felt rejected by me because well… his reasons were “but I did it for you, I wanted to show you I was interested” and “why didn’t you appreciate what I did for you? I meant well”-which rubbed me the wrong way. He felt rejected because I didn’t think his actions were genuine… because they weren’t. I understand he meant well, but you shouldn’t lie about these things, about who you are and what you like. That’s not you. I am just one fish of many. I don’t need my potential partner to be perfect. I’m not perfect myself. I don’t make 6 figures, I’m not supermodel-looking, I don’t own a car… (not that you need to in my country lmao bicycle-gang) you don’t have to, either. You don’t have to conform to society’s expectations of you, man or woman, you don’t have to pretend to like things or agree with things you don’t agree with. Shoot your shot and be yourself. As hard as that is, as unforgiving as it is-it’s not just with anime that I’ve been an outcast, so trust me, I know-you need to be you. I can’t apologise for nervous laughing because it’s a part of who I am, for example. I didn’t find my current SO out of thin air. I put myself out there and so did he on a freaking video game, LOL. The irl component helped, of course, but I got to know his personality first and foremost and that’s what makes me like someone, obviously. Not just their looks. He didn’t pretend to like any of the things I liked that he didn’t. He has opinions that would leave people’s jaws on the floor. He’s authentic and others can feel that. I can feel that. With flaws and all, because I have them, too. He’s not always confident, and neither am I. Because always being confident and independent isn’t a must in a relationship, or a friendship. And yes, I am a filthy Zutara shipper XD no way am I apologising for that, but I will apologise for the spoiler!

I have more in common with Damien than most of your guests. For whatever reason I picked up you would be willing to address those concerns when I first started listening. Thank you Dr. K

Dr. Ks Book Recommendations: - The Cambridge book of personal relationships - Handbook of Attachment - Internal Family Systems Therapy

We are at a divide. Redpill says this and who ever says that. But we both have to understand eachother and have a conversation. I'm so glad we have Dr.K!

CHat's behaviour towards Damien was frankly disgusting and prove for why so many young men end up in the deep ends of pill ideologies. BEcause the moment they even barely touch that stuff society treats them like lost causes and monsters undeserving of any help or empathy.

I really do feel like there aren't very many good places to meet people to just go out, are appropriate and not connected with alcohol consumption and/or partying. I'm not going to approach people at the gym seems inappropriate, not going to do it in the supermarket, I'm not going out to a club or bar since those are not the types of people that are similar to me, not going to church since I'm not very religious and finally no much luck on dating apps. One good option I've found are like speed dating events but besides that not sure what to do.

Massive, massive thanks to Joe, never heared my problem with getting a relationship be explained so very clearly

Love this so much! Was deep in the “red pill” from the 2016 to 2020. Since then been running head long into finding a way to bring people together and feeling better about myself and try to see myself where I am as worth while I’m not perfect and will never be. I’m working reconcile with those feelings.

I resonate a lot with what caller 2 was saying! I'm SO oblivious, unless a dude literally calls it a date I won't realize he's asking me out. (Literally listening to this call is making me rethink to the past and wondering if indeed I was being asked out) Party this is because I tend to have a lot of male friends/relatives that i hang out with and Im used to being perceived as "one of the guys".

"Why Do Men Feel Like They Are Constantly Being Rejected?" Answer: They are being constantly rejected

Seeing how much Dr. K smiled while talking to the guy that in the end asked him about his pen is so wholesome. Making me smile too :)

I thought about it a lot during this stream. And I think I take full responsibility for me being single for so long (most of my life actually), because it's actually really hard for me to meet women compatible with me, particularly as an introvert. As someone who works from home as a GameDev, someone who isn't partying, socializing at venues / events, going to pubs or clubs -- the opportunities for interactions are few and mostly virtual. If there are many fish in the sea, I'm basically in an aquarium. I'm not even on the market. I'm not going to stumble across "red riding hood" in the woods while adventuring or hiking (hobbies I consider fun), least of all expect compatibility. So much of my work life & leisure is at a computer or at home. There's also nuance, like: I'm traditional, I want to have kids someday, I personally don't want to end up with an aborted child, I don't want someone who keeps the divorce exit always open, I'm a vegan for ethical reasons - which makes me a polar opposite from 97% population. If I compound my top 5 preferences, the probabilities appear hopeless. These variables, though kept to a maximum of 5, actually make it very hard for me to find true compatibility. I'm lonely, but I'm secure. I don't want to fill the loneliness with just anyone. I'm okay with living & dying alone. I don't want "a" girlfriend (she's not a pet or accessory), I want someone who's like a best friend to me. My mom always says "Marry in haste, repent in leisure". I think to some degree both men and women are searching for their unique preferences, and always accessing compatibility, so people who come along and don't fit that -- will feel rejected. It isn't personal. There's many truths in this video I could relate to from experience, ie; like women do evaluate men on their resourcefulness / utility to some degree, and there's a lot of strange requirements in the west at times: like being a certain height, not living with parents, having a degree of financial stability, and no joke I've heard some women openly say being uncut is a deal breaker (male genital mutilation is not a part of my culture / continent). So I do think there is a degree of anxiety for men. This anxiety is not to be confused with a lack of confidence / insecurity. Because there are many secure men, myself as well (almost 30), well established, and feeling content being single... But know that it would be 'better' / 'more meaningful' to experience the world & compare notes with someone special. Women do get much more attention, comments, complements, and have more options. The last time I was complemented, and I'll probably never forget it, was this girl who saw me at a Pizzaria, ~2.5 years ago during Covid. She went "Omg, are your EYELASHES REAL?? Can I feel them?" ... *I nod* .... *proceeds to touch*, and she literally said "...You're so beautiful". That never happens, and it's embedded in my memory. And I know because of this disparity, it can often feel like you're applying to a job that already has 50-100 applicants. Having to play this numbers game or go through x number of rejections before probabilities stack up in your favor. It's unpleasant, and I think many men just unconsciously opt out because of the above two reasons - low probability of compatibility, and the emotional burnout from playing the numbers game.

Wow, I have no idea what’s up with Tommy, but I couldn’t help but LOVE him. The questions he asked really felt like honest genuine ones that he was trying to word right. Sure, maybe he was a bit awkward, but I honestly learned a lot from the way he was trying to word his questions, and the answers and questions Dr. K gave in response.

I’m so much like the second caller. Dr K says when he asks a girl to hang out, he’s seeing that as a date. I did not know that until literally last month (around Valentine’s Day actually). My girl friends and I hang out. My guy friends (that I’ve known long enough they’re more my brothers) hang out. So when a guy asks me to hang out, that’s friend language for me. It wasn’t until a guy I thought saw me as a friend who happens to be a girl got blunt about the first time we “hung out” when I was trying to get advice from him on someone else explicitly asking me out that I figured it out. Can’t imagine all the guys in my 25 years on earth that I’ve accidentally rejected or friend zoned because the language is the epitome of the disconnect between female and male perspectives.

This video was literally the most important video ever in our current society (imo), because in-terms of the dating scene yes literally everything is f*cked.

Thank you for this. I was struggling with the feeling of despair after getting rejected once again and it really helped me to find new perspectives and get myself out of this rut really fast (like a day or two usually it takes me longer). I think what's interesting and hasn't really been mentioned when it comes to the feeling of constant rejection, is the aspect of a sheer lack of success or visible improvement. For example, imagine you're learning to ride a bike. But every time you get on the bike you fall down and no matter what you do you still fall down and you just don't seem to improve and can't find a way to stay on the bike, so you start questioning yourself. What if bikes aren't meant to be ridden? But other people can learn to ride bikes? So maybe there's something wrong with you? Are you just incapable of learning to ride bikes? I think therefore when it comes to finding a partner it isn't like a skill you can learn. There's no "finding partner skill" you can develop by long dedicated practice unlike learning to play an instrument or math, or, well, riding bikes. It's something else, something I cannot compare to anything right now. I've also noticed that neither rejection is like the other, some girls want to stay friends and are eager to have you as a friend others don't. So when it comes to my personal development I think it's time I explore the friendzone a little bit.

thank you for posting the full stream on RU-vid. I work off hours so I can never watch any streamer during their main times and having this accessible on RU-vid is amazing for me.

For me it’s not the rejection that bothers me as much as me not giving my own self a chance enough to put a little bit of good energy and confidence within myself to do it

feeling like youre constantly rejected is not the same thing as you actually keep getting rejected. there are correlation between the two a lot of the times, but they can also be mutually exclusive. for example, a person who has been rejected 10 times can be more confident than a person who technically has 0 rejection because he has not tried.

1:32:25 Is it Joe?!? I’m bad with names but I actually like Joe. He seems genuine and like he’s actually trying and willing to be insightful about his issues and as a woman I actually appreciate that and think he would do well following the advice that he was given. He seems like a really good guy. Edit: My gut feeling about Joe was correct. I hope his relationship goes the distance. Im really happy for him.

From my experiance this is a hard topic to jump into with no way to jump in but Ill give it a go. This is more Rejection in genrule rather then in the dating setting, but I feel like it can give some emotional context to what other men say. I feel as a man that I am rejected by the whole world some days. It occurs in some small ways and builds into this idea of what people expect you to be like. A small example of this is if you are walking along the street and someone crosses the street to avoid you.(I know personal saftey and agree that its a good precaution but it still hurts) This can happen multiple times a week. A more relivent example to me is that I have had people use inuendo to imply im a Pedo. When I have family get togethers or big parties or weddings I like hanging out with the kids as they are "easier" to navigate socially and they tent to like me as i dont treet them like idiots. Ive had people give me dirty looks and on one occation actualy imply that I was disgusting by doing this. To go along with this many women that are in my social sphere will put up spacific walls with me as I am a man. This is something they are ok talking to me about, and they have let me know that these walls are there. I had an experiance tonight where after offering to take someone home they declined as I was a man and noone else would be with us, they siad this explicitly. I feel like im being Judged as a monster for what I am and rejected for it without justification.

I have to admit, youre really fking good at what you do, especially as far as empathetically assimilating yourself with the nerdy/geek/gamer community and tgeir most common struggles. you almost had me feeling like you know what it's like to be in these peoples' shoes.

Something that I wonder about is who is fishing in what pool? Not that people are fish, but if you have 40 year old men trying to hook up with 20-28 year old women, instead of in their own age range, that increases competition for young men within their own age range. Just something to consider. Another thing is where are people looking for a partner? It is really hard to just make new friends as an adult, much less find a longterm relationship. There are only a few options once you are out of school: work, church, clubs/organizations, friends of friends. I am sure that there are more options than those - but looking for a relationship in a hook up oriented environment may not yield desirable results. Additionally, I think that a person is more likely to meet someone appropriate through a mutual connection. Dating can be a life endangering activity for women, so knowing someone who will vouch for you can help ease the fear.

I like, how dr K can show me the side of a person that I can understand, even if the first couple of their statements make my blood boil. This is a superpower I want to have, too.

In my 30 years of life I've only had two girlfriends and both times the relationship was initiated by the girl. When it comes to me asking a girl out, I'm 0 for something like 20-30. I'm currently very happy in my relationship with the second girl so I'm not as bothered by my abysmal success rate in dating as I was before I met her but I'm still curious as to why I'm at a 100% rejection rate and while I absolutely love my girlfriend, I have her to thank for starting the relationship and the only thing I can say for my part in it is that I got lucky that she found me.

There are tons of people out there that never got married or had kids, or haven't found 'the one'. I remember when I was a kid, I knew or heard of many adults like that. Today I am 40 year old woman, and I am one of those people. Learned, lived, dated and in the end, I rather live by myself. I have my own passions to chase, people (coworkers, friends, family, pets, etc) to support, and places to go. I am pretty sure there is someone out there for me somewhere, but I am not getting out of my way to try to 'find' him. If we ever meet, great! Someone else I can support and have support back. Otherwise....I have been good by myself anyway. And I know this is not the lifestyle for everyone. It is a lot of struggle for me because for sure I want to support the ones I love, but I also got used to not having support back. I very rarely get support, so I don't expect it. I hate the agenda that all women have to be 'their own independent women'. That pushes away the men that want to support and the women that want to be supported far apart. Some people just CAN'T live independently. It is not for everyone. But I also think the best relationships come from people that support each other and better each other. And sometimes it may not be from a relationship that ends in marriage. Sometimes it comes in the form of a community or a purpose. If the purpose of your living is primitive (I need to get a partner and spread my genes), then probably that is where the pressure is coming. And takes time and maturity to be able to seek other things in life.

"Pissing off pushy dudes costs more than mildly pissing off nice people." Exactly. This is the part of the female experience that, in my experience, men have the hardest time understanding. It's dangerous to make pushy men angry, especially as the object of their desire. We generally try to avoid being in that situation. Part of that is ASSUMING that every man could become violent, even though we know most of them won't. It only takes one.

I try my best to manage my anxitey in social situations, but it's really hard as a guy to pick up the courage to ask out a girl I like. Quite often I linger so long on the decision that the monent's past, she's moved on, or now we're just friends and it's wierd. It's sad to admit, but all I've ever really known is rejection, and it's exhausting to put in such mental effort, just to get smacked down in an instant. Eventually, my brain learned to stop trying. Even though I do feel emotions intensely at times, I don't often show that on my face, and I worry I come across as cold. That could give the wrong impression. I do try to open up sometimes, but then my anxiety kickes in and I retreat behind a stone face. I'm not kidding when I say it takes YEARS to be myself around people.

Growing up, I was told to lie, cheat and play mind games to get a woman's interest. Be inventive, be daring, to hell with that restraining order! Women secretly *love* men who are 'driven by passion' and won't take "no" for an answer. (Hollywood has a *shit-ton* of things to answer for!) Damn you, John Hughes and your movies! And yes, your 'game' is why you are/are not single. Like they guy said, guys feel like it's all on them to not be single anymore. (Note: No one came out and said, "Lie, cheat, and steal to get a girlfriend." But that's the end result of what they did teach me. I was a teenager in the 1980's, and in college in the 1990's.)

i really liked the early topic about putting women on a pedestal: one thing I really liked that was pointed out in the chat is that essentially in the situation described where a guy compliments a women and asks her out; the discrepancy is not that the man is unclear in his intentions or feels entitled to someone's time, the bigger discrepancy is that sometimes when people experience insecurity, the prospect of being attractive or interesting to others is foreign. a guy getting sensitive after rejection most times has to deal with his own perspective (security or insecurity, self image etc.) and hurts his own self esteem despite the circumstances having nothing to do with him. a very interesting discussion on mindfulness in a way that i loved

The last caller Damien is clearly redpilled, and I like that he was presenting the side of redpill about changing gender dynamic, roles, and self improvement, instead of doomer mentality and hating women. Unfortunately, if he expresses the same idea on the HG subreddit, he will be considered generalizing and will be shutdown by the mod immediately. I am so glad he was able to talk to Dr.K directly on the stream. We need more voices like him that actually talk about issue on a system level, not just on personal and mental level.

I was bullied and mocked grade 3 to 12. I became very insecure and introverted. In college. if guys expressed interest it had to be extremely blunt or I didnt even understand - was totally blind to what they were asking me. If they were clear enough I understood what they were asking I thought they were making fun of me. People may live in the same society but we don’t understand each other - a lot of times our own trauma blinds us. This is true of makes as well as females.

I feel like rejection would hurt a lot worse if you are being yourself.. then you know it's just you.

I'm a woman and I also feel rejected any lonely most of the time. Theres really a misconception about how many "options" women have.. Even if we have options sexually, at my age at least all my friends complain about how there are very few men interested in anything besides hookups

The first 300 rejections in a row is not the issue. It's the other 900 after that gets to you

I've noticed that a lot of the misunderstandings, misleading situations, or anything further towards the extremes of either side typically are byproduct of the same issue. Either people have too much anxiety to say what they want to, or they purposefully don't say what they want to, expecting the other side to read their mind. I totally get if you're anxious, and I am myself, but the case of the second girl specifically, a guy can be perceived as "asking you out" only if he literally says "do you want to go out with me". Saying that someone article of clothing is cool is not equal to asking someone out, and claiming that it is is disingenuous. The mind-games are not beneficial to anyone

The asker always has more upfront investment. A better question is how rejected women have felt when THEY approach a guy and get turned down. There's nothing specially happening, just a lack of empathy due to lack of experience or just ignorance. Women I've know have told me they are CRUSHED so badly when this happens they never ask again.

My god, Dr. K is so good. His intelligence is so elegantly strategic.

Man, I'm late to this stream recording to seek some advice but instead I ended up being inspired by the way Dr. K interacted with Luna. He's such a thoughtful and warm listener. Amazing

There is definitely a difference between "what if people think I'm weird for my hobbies/interests" and people who genuinely feel worthless.

I am listening to this at 1:12:00 ish in and thinking about how, yeah, it is different what I "idealize" as attractive/find good looking versus who I have dated. Maybe some people had some overlapping traits, but my husband is literally... 5'5", formerly obese (but getting fit and strong), a stout bodied AAPI (Asian American/Pacific Islander) with chubby cheeks, not the wealthiest man I've met... But after meeting him a few times and getting to know his personality, see his genuine smile, he started to slowly become more and more attractive to me. His humor, the fact that he enjoys snuggles before work in the mornings, his gentleness. I also feel "safe" around him, more than I ever have with someone in my life... now he's the hottest man on the planet to me, and I don't even notice other men anymore. Like I could now look at someone that is the "idealized" hotness I had and I wouldn't feel or think anything at all. I am definitely very in love with my husband. I am also excited to be having his baby soon (my first at 34), as I am hoping the baby will have his chubby cheeks.

Great convo as always Dr K. Its fascinating to hear the other side and hear why some men might ghost or give up When I was single I'd say the common theme was encountering men who expected to be rejected or always assumed there was a "better guy" pursuing me It affects their behavior which is what always made it a self fulfilling prophecy. It was always the whining that made them unattractive. I've had guys tell me I was intimidating, out of their league, or too good for them. Or be really hyper focused on trying to find something wrong with me they'd start stalking me online or interrogating me about my life. What was rare was being truly seen as a person. It took me two years before I found a man who actually cared and respected me as a person. And wasn't pressuring me for sex or lying about who he was

Where to meet people! At least in the US it seems like the are so few casual places to socialize with people. I feel like I am always at home, at work, or out running errands where I don't want to be bothered. To have a spaces in-between, places to meet over common interests/activities, community involvement, etc.

Some men seem really hurt after I rejected them because they thought we were getting along well. I try to be very friendly to everyone, I give everyone a fair chance for me to get to know them. Unfortunately this feels for men like I am interested in them. And when I after a while decide that a person isn't for me after all, they can be really hurt. I always try to be polite when I tell someone I have no interest in dating them or hanging out with them, some take it really well. For others this sems to come out of nowhere and they are really upset.

This needs to be spread across the land and listened to far and wide.

Hard to imagine “be yourself “ working for anyone that is not female or hot

Many props to Dr. K for having a level of patience I can barely fathom achieving for certain dialogues. When I hear something that seems contradictory or feels nonsensical, the urge to try to "correct" the thought into something that feels more consistent with reality can be near unbearable and sometimes I can scarcely think of anything else from that point.

I strongly related to the second woman talking about having to navigate safety and interest, because I sometimes find it hard to sympathize with mens' feelings of rejection, when for women it's not often about self esteem so much as literal survival. I'm sorry, your feelings come second after my will to live.

Watched this whole stream in one session! Absolutely phenomenal stuff, Dr. K.

This is so interesting to listen to. Something is definitely going on that so many people can’t connect when all they really want is to connect. Is it just social media or tecnology that’s dividing us? What’s changed

I am SO glad I gave up completely and stopped believing in love so I don't have to worry about any of this anymore.

Everyone fears rejection. People who they don't understand why it's a big deal, lack the empathy, maturity and experience of a functional adult. This is a major reason women don't often approach (fear of rejection), why men are scared to approach etc. The reason it specifically affects men more is because we approach more. Rejection is necessary to grow thick skin and be a lot more courageous in every area of your life

Some of the best content this world has seen here. Absolutely Love Dr. K and this community

The issue with dating apps when someone is female, they can have hundreds and hundreds of people messaging and liking you. It gets completely overwhelming, and often the messages to the people she likes gets lost in the message list, because of the sheer number of messages. I wanted guys to know this, because it's not a rejection against you.

I'm so glad that my mom was always such a great moral support for my dad. Whenever he has some difficulties (psychologically, in this case) she always tries to help him in all ways she can, and she does the same to me . I am now doing the same in my marriage (I am a woman), and I think that supporting men in their struggles is just as important as women. Sadly though, my dad does not always return the favor and fails to understand my moms struggles sometimes. Also, Luna is extremely charismatic girl and I loved that segment. I think many of us disagree on the last guy's point of view but we should be respectful over opinions of others - I'm pretty sure he can find somebody who has similar views as him, even though they are based on wrong "facts" but to each their own. He's not telling others to live that way, I have a problem with people who do say that, or demean others for their choices in life (for example, having sex before marriage or having multiple partners).

This video and comment section was a massive black pill as a male. It blows my mind just how quickly women will make something as serious as male isolation and rejection, about them and how men need to do more. Like.... As a male, I did the "self improvement" track. It literally got me nowhere for a family. I lost the weight, gained muscle, built a career, etc. Tell me a time in the history of a civilized society that it was expected of the male to literally be perfect and build everything prior to a relationship? Have a home, cars, etc? Because the only long term relationships that worked are from people who got together with nothing but each other, and built all of that together. Another thing is that as men, we are expected to just keep on "pushing the bolder up the hill" just because. When we say we are doing this for a positive outcome, we are told that we should do it for ourselves, even if you want a family. That you don't deserve anything and should do all this stuff with zero expectations of having it reciprocated or get what you want. Also, since when do people have relationships with others and expect to give nothing away to the other person? I see a ton of women in the comment section stating that essentially, you shouldn't need your partner. Like? Why would I want to be in a relationship where I'm not needed and/ or wanted? Also, if what's hurting someone is being starved of intimacy, how is learning to be okay by yourself going to fix that? Like honestly, the absolute zero empathy on this is a massive sack punch. I'm absolutely fed up with women on this and how little they think of men.

Amazing video. I once heard a comment saying "Women aren't beautiful, we assign beauty to them. Women just are". It really help me reevaluate my relationship with women and helped get me into a healthier view of both myself and others. I definitely struggled with putting women on a pedi stool when I was younger.

This channel is so incredible. He speaks to gamers like we are people, not belittling but with compassion and understanding. Onw of the best channels on RU-vid. At its minimum, thought provoking with a great host.

"stuff is gettin uh..." ~Dr. K 2023 3:16:42

Anyone expecting mind-reading from others makes it really hard. But the alternative is finding some shared assumptions, and like any work that someone thinks other people 'should' be doing already, those efforts are often taken as granted.

10:35 ill say it : for most people, Twitter just makes them angy.

The 2nd caller was so out of touch. She didn't even know how to articulate what she didn't know she was talking about. She literally says she wants men to be able to read between the lines and mind-read in order to approach her about dating. She's literally part of the problem. She wasn't single until 26 because of her "un-awareness", but by choice. She even gives examples.

"Stop looking for a smoking gun." Reminds me of Viktor Frankl's thoughts regarding hyper-reflection

From my personal experience as a man, rejection obviously doesn't feel right, but rejection also means there's something not compatible between 2 people and that's fine 😅. If someone rejects you, you might feel like you two are compatible, but she clearly doesn't feel that way, and it's better to be rejected then. You will meet new people, great people, keep being yourself and working on yourself, so that when you meet the right person, you she/he will see you for who you are, and realize you 2 are compatible 😊.

I think Dr K hit the biggest issue during the Anita stream, a males most protected point is feelings. Asking a girl out is connecting to feelings that most men are not prepared to deal with because of social conditioning.

I spend much of my 20s alone, a lot of it was due to fear of rejection. Now I have plenty of female attention but have to constantly endure rejection (getting better but it's still a coin flip most of the time). For biological and cultural reasons this is basically incumbent on men to take that burden onto themselves.. social commentary aside, learning to just take rejection on the chin is a huge boon to men. We fear rejection so much because in the ancestral environment we evolved in it could spell death.. in the modern disconnected, sprawling world - it doesn't matter. There are literally an infinity of people to befriend or date, if a million ended up thinking you were an autistic cringelord (they won't, but that's what the brain imagines) it wouldn't even matter

Who's walking around thinking they're entitled to every person they encounter has to go on a date with them? Never heard of such an ideology.

My perspective. It's guys that have to do the asking out, the searching, make the first moves. But women are constantly berating us in media, social media especially that we're not doing it right. More so that what we're doing is offensive and scary, i.e asking them out at the gym, in the supermarket, etc... That's not why they're there. Ok so that leaves dating apps and singles nights, great if you're a poster model or socially confident. (I'm empathetic to the fears women have around safety but there doesn't seem to be much empathy for our feelings) Oh and don't just say hi, be funny, interesting, I have so many options you have to stand out. "You don't know me, just what I look like". Yes that's why I'm asking you out, to get to know you. I gave up on the constant trauma that is the dating game just over a year ago to focus on myself and one insight I have had is that it feels like there is pressure to find "your other half" like you are literally not whole if you're single. I'm still lonely at times but honestly feeling better without the constant feeling I'm not good enough for this person. I don't accept any of this as truth just the feelings bought about my experiences.

PART 1 from "The Urgency of Change" Questioner: I have come a long way to see you. Although I am married and have children I have been away from them, wandering, meditating, as a mendicant. I have puzzled greatly over this very complicated problem of relationship. When I go into a village and they give me food, I am related to the giver, as I am related to my wife and children. In another village when somebody gives me clothes I am related to the whole factory that produced them. I am related to the earth on which I walk, to the tree under which I take shelter, to everything. And yet I am alone, isolated. When I am with my wife, I am separate even during sex - it is an act of separation. When I go into a temple it is still the worshipper being related to the thing he worships: separation again. So in all relationships, as I see it, there is this separation, duality, and behind or through it, or around it, there is a peculiar sense of unity. When I see the beggar it hurts me, for I am like him and I feel as he feels - lonely, desperate, sick, hungry. I feel for him, and with him, for his meaningless existence. Some rich man comes along in his big motor car and gives me a lift, but I feel uncomfortable in his company, yet at the same time I feel for him and am related to him. So I have meditated upon this strange phenomenon of relationship. Can we on this lovely morning, overlooking this deep valley, talk over together this question? Krishnamurti: Is all relationship out of this isolation? Can there be relationship as long as there is any separateness, division? Can there be relationship if there is no contact, not only physical but at every level of our being, with another? One may hold the hand of another and yet be miles away, wrapped in one's own thoughts and problems. One may be in a group and yet be painfully alone. So one asks: can there be any kind of relationship with the tree, the flower, the human being, or with the skies and the lovely sunset, when the mind in its activities is isolating itself? And can there be any contact ever, with anything at all, even when the mind is not isolating itself? Questioner: Everything and everybody has its own existence. Everything and everybody is shrouded in its own existence. I can never penetrate this enclosure of another's being. However much I love someone, his existence is separate from mine. I can perhaps touch him from the outside, mentally or physically, but his existence is his own, and mine is for ever on the outside of it. Similarly he cannot reach me. Must we always remain two separate entities, each in his own world, with his own limitations, within the prison of his own consciousness? Krishnamurti: Each lives within his own tissue, you in yours, he in his. And is there any possibility, ever, of breaking through this tissue? Is this tissue - this shroud, this envelope - the word? Is it made up of your concern with yourself and his with himself, your desires opposed to his? Is this capsule the past? It is all of this, isn't it? It isn't one particular thing but a whole bundle which the mind carries about. You have your burden, another has his. Can these burdens ever be dropped so that the mind meets the mind, the heart meets the heart? That is really the question, isn't it? Questioner: Even if all these burdens are dropped, if that were possible, even then he remains in his skin with his thoughts, and I in mine with my thoughts. Sometimes the gap is narrow, sometimes it is wide, but we are always two separate islands. The gap seems to be widest when we care most about it and try to bridge it. Krishnamurti: You can identify yourself with that villager or with that flaming bougainvillaea - which is a mental trick to pretend unity. Identification with something is one of the most hypocritical states - to identify oneself with a nation, with a belief and yet remain alone is a favourite trick to cheat loneliness. Or you identify yourself so completely with your belief that you are that belief, and this is a neurotic state. Now let's put away this urge to be identified with a person or an idea or a thing. That way there is no harmony, unity or love. So our next question is: can you tear through the envelope so that there is no more envelope? Then only would there be a possibility of total contact. How is one to tear through the envelope? The "how" doesn't mean a method, but rather an enquiry which might open the door.

I'm kind of weird where I have social problems making friends, but when it comes to romance I find more success. So I've had an easier time dating/having a serious relationship than I've ever had maintaining a friendship. Over time I've become more self aware and begun the process of unwinding my own bullshit. I just don't seem to make friends unless it's with someone who I establish either a sexual or romantic element with.

A problem I see that happens a lot is people tend to conflate their value as a partner with their value as a human being. I want to have kids so I would never date a woman who is infertile, but just because I don't see value in having a relationship with them doesn't mean they have any less value as a person.

I think a key factor in this is the fact that if we try and talk to our friends about it we'll get clowned on so we have to internalize it which leads to us analysing it more or over thinking it and ultimately leads to us taking it harder. I'm not saying we take it harder because we lack a shoulder to cry on but that it's a major factor along with i mostl men myself includedt dont have someone there for us that we can talk openly with and not feel awkward. Yeah we have our homie group that we hang out with not that's it majority of the time that's all they are we don't have the kind of bonds that women have with their friends. I guess when it comes to guys having a friend whom we can actually open up to is really rare 95% of our friends are superficial. Sorry if I went off subject.

As a guy.. Who's not even tried to get into the dating pool, just watches from the sidelines lol The main problem i see, is how many interactions are started by a man, and how many are started by a woman? In this society, who asks who out? The reason men feel more rejected, is they're the ones who have to initiate. How can you feel rejected if you're only ever reacting? Today's society is becoming more gender equal, and that's great I seriously believe that if we make the initiation phase equal too, a lot of these problems will go away

So, she was literally asked out, and she laughed at him, and that's his fault now? Because he wasn't telepathic to know that she took it as a joke? He literally ... literally asked her out. And she thought it was a joke. Why? Was there a punchline? Was there some context? Like .... bruh. Even Dr K is feeling awkward what approach to take with her. edit: Anyway, Im not gonna comment anymore or continue the stream, I feel like this is a very frustrating approach that women take and very abusive to men. Literally being asked out and laughing at them. They had the courage to ask a girl out, something that most men thrive for to have, and she laughed at him. And now she's asking to be treated like a human too? Coz "hey women are human too we're not telepathic". Bruh, he ... asked you out. He complimented you. And you laughed at him? And you went back to your friend who literally told you that you just rejected him? And that's apparently his fault? Like ... nah. I don't want to listen to this kind of stream. Stopping at 41:30. Heard enough. Don't wanna focus on that at this point. Trakata meditation at least helps me at that.

Really helpful convo here esp with 1:51:27 this guy joe i really empathized and felt exactly what he was saying and in a way he is what a future version of me would sound like at 30 because i feel the exact same way at 22

My heart aches every time I get hope during another call-in stream and I managed to be off work and get my question into the queue as fast as I can but they run out of room every time.

It would be interesting to see Dr.K speak to some people within the redpill space. I think Dr. K really pulled me from the incel-ish mindset.

I think something missing in the conversation is the lack of friendships between men and women. As an aro-ace woman, I’m not looking for a romantic partner. However, I would love to make friends with men my age. The problem is, a lot of men do have the expectation that if a woman is being nice, it means they are romantically interested in you. Obviously, this can cause problems. The man thinks you are friend-zoning him, but to you, that just means that having a genuine friend connection isn’t enough for him. If women and men could create friendships first, maybe something romantic could cone from it; but if nothing does, you still have a friend to rely on and have a connection with, and that is just as important.

I would just like to mention that as a lady I've notices that we don't NEED men anymore. It's about if we want a man or not. These days women have been empowered and don't depend on a man for the security, money, safety. Now we want an emotional connection and someone who challenges us and maybe sometimes it becomes too much of a risk to change the lifestyle we are currently living to entertain something we are not sure can even give us the emotional fulfillment we are looking for.