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Why don't Latter-day Saints use the cross? Ep. 111 

Saints Unscripted
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Like other Christians, Latter-day Saints believe Christ suffered and died on a cross. But unlike other Christians, Latter-day Saints don’t generally use the cross today as a symbol of their faith. In this episode, Dave talks about why that is.
Video transcript and additional notes: saintsunscripted.com/faith-an...
“Mormons and the cross,” Deseret News, Sept. 10, 2009: bit.ly/2Z9UVdk
Book review on this subject by Alonzo Gaskill: bit.ly/3qfH9C9
Book review on this subject by Boyd Jay Peterson: bit.ly/3jJwSeN
From the Church’s website: bit.ly/378I2Vj
“A Gauge of the Times: Ensign Peak in the Twentieth Century,” by Ronald W. Walker: bit.ly/3aY8thG
Some history on the cross, via the Encyclopedia Britannica: bit.ly/2NrnMri
“When America Hated Catholics,” by Politico Magazine: politi.co/3pn7ixG
Recommended reading: “Banishing the Cross: The Emergence of a Mormon Taboo,” by Michael G. Reed. Preface this with Alonzo Gaskill’s review of the book.
Notes:
-While Bishop Nibley received some heated letters about the cross being a Catholic symbol, others were clearly more tolerant. For example, apostle Orson F. Whitney, opined that the cross was indeed a Catholic symbol (and therefore wouldn’t be appropriate on Ensign Peak), but instead suggested that a cross be built on Mt. Timpanogos in honor of Father Escalante, a Catholic pioneer who led an expedition through the valley long before the Saints arrived.
-In Michael Reed’s book, he suggests that the symbol of the cross was popular among the early Saints because of its connection to folk magic, freemasonry, and the fact that Precolumbian crosses were seen as evidence supporting the veracity of the Book of Mormon. Reed asserts that as time went on and the early Saints lost their connection with folk magic and freemasonry, their affinity for the cross also waned. Alonzo Gaskill, in his review of Reed’s book, commented:
“Perhaps the most problematic part of Banishing the Cross is the book’s third chapter, ‘Mormon Magic, Freemasonry, and the Cross’ (37-60). In this section, Reed argues that Joseph and the early Saints were comfortable with using the cross as a symbol because they were heavily into folk magic and Freemasonry. The chapter is essentially a reiteration of other works on this same theme, including D. Michael Quinn’s Early Mormonism and the Magic World View. However, the problem is not so much that Reed largely rehearses the research of others. Rather, the difficulty is that the chapter is heavily conjectural. In approximately seventeen pages of printed text, Reed offers at least that many conjectural conclusions (for example, ‘almost certainly,’ ‘perhaps,’ ‘one wonders whether,’ ‘it is reasonable to assume,’ it is ‘possible’ or ‘likely’ that, it ‘could be posited’ that, and so forth). The chapter presents evidence that crosses were used in nineteenth century Masonry and by some practitioners of folk magic during that same era. But it does not present evidence for its claim that Joseph introduced the cross as a symbol into Mormonism because of these influences. Reed fails to provide substantiation that Joseph introduced the symbolic cross into the restored Church. The chapter is not only speculative in its conclusions, but it also overlooks the point that Joseph never used the cross as a symbol in his public discourse or liturgical rites. In the one discourse we have in which Joseph refers to the cross as a symbol, the Prophet seems to speak somewhat condescendingly of it. Thus, whether Reed is right or wrong in his conjecture, he does not make a convincing argument for his claim that the early LDS comfort with the symbol of the cross was primarily due to Joseph’s comfort with folk magic or Masonry.”
I agree with Gaskill. Hence, why this subject wasn’t broached in the video. I think the waning of the cross is more logically explained by a desire to avoid appearing “Catholic.” Perhaps folk magic and Freemasonry played a small role in the early use of the cross, but I think Reed’s argument is overstated.
-“Even though we do not believe in using the cross as a symbol in our Church, we do not criticize others for wearing or using the cross in their religions. We should understand that the cross is significant and sacred to them. In fact, the 11th article of faith says, “We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.” -From the Church’s website: bit.ly/3qqu1Kr
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9 мар 2021

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Комментарии : 130   
@amanda3050
@amanda3050 3 года назад
I've been wondering about this exact topic and you did a great job giving me a ton of info
@charlemagnetheFranks
@charlemagnetheFranks 3 года назад
I appreciate this channel. It is with common sense, bringing us all together. :-)✝️☦️
@hagar2167
@hagar2167 3 года назад
Ditto what he said
@KevlarX2
@KevlarX2 3 года назад
My understanding of the cross I guess came from Gordon B. Hinckley's talk that you referenced. That we focus more on the resurrected Christ. I've never been bothered by Catholics and Protestants use of that symbol however. Like them I view it as a Christian symbol, and I think that is awesome. In some of our churches, I've seen beehive symbols on the back of pews, and of course the Angel Moroni statue used on our books, literature, Temples, scriptures and grave sights. I like the symbol we have now with Christ with an archway around him. Whatever symbol makes you feel Christs love and remember him, I say that is a part of what is good or praiseworthy like the Apostle Paul said.
@atlas5651
@atlas5651 3 года назад
1 Corrinthians 1:18 "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. " I recently left the Mormon church and became a Born-Again Christian, and I never in my entire life have been more appreciate of the cross untill now... I was always told growing up that we don't wear crosses.. and I shouldn't have a cross on anything... I was raised to be ashamed if I wore it... I never understood why. And they DO NOT teach us in church that it's bc we don't want to look like catholics... I'm sorry but that is an apologetic answer.... NOW that I left... and understand TRUE GRACE... I AM SAVED and the meaning means EVERYTHING TO ME. And I don't hesitate wearing it because someone might think I'm catholic...... I wear it because IM SAVED AND IF IT WASNT FOR THE CROSS I WOULDNT BE SET FREE! I love this symbol more than ever.. 🙏🏽✝️💕 Thank you Jesus! Remember that verse always! 🙏🏽 "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."
@annoulamaraki5315
@annoulamaraki5315 3 года назад
Although I find mormon faith foolish the fun fact her is that mormon guy in the video speaks normally without inpost his beliefs about cross but you the "normal" Christian (former) Mormon you yelling out your personal opinion throwing in trush this guy's words like you have a direct communication to God and so you nknow everything (do you really have to use the such a label as "born again Christian"? - you either Christian or not the difference is were you follow a normal doctrine or a "Christian" cult). Again being polite and just giving your opinion without inpost it to others is the best thing you can do.
@gustavmahler1466
@gustavmahler1466 2 года назад
The atonement was in the garden not on the cross
@user-ow2su1om4d
@user-ow2su1om4d 22 дня назад
God bless you 🙏
@EricLovesCHRIST
@EricLovesCHRIST 3 года назад
Okay, you got the point across
@444tam
@444tam 3 года назад
amazing comment 🙏
@beelzebabe5112
@beelzebabe5112 3 года назад
Ba-dum-tsssssssss
@starlegends3092
@starlegends3092 3 года назад
Endeed UwU
@EricLovesCHRIST
@EricLovesCHRIST Год назад
Thx guys
@MissouriMatt54
@MissouriMatt54 3 года назад
Thank you for an informative video.
@staines888
@staines888 3 года назад
This is amazing. Love it 😌
@zackbutt6822
@zackbutt6822 3 года назад
I always thought that we didn't use the cross because we focused more on gethsemane when we talked about the atonement than the cross
@cuthere93
@cuthere93 3 года назад
That was yesterday. This Church changes its priorities like some people their underwear.
@johnhiltoniii
@johnhiltoniii 3 года назад
Actually, both church leaders and the scriptures have consistently focused more on Calvary than Gethsemane. (see johnhiltoniii.com/crucifixion for articles that back up this assertion).
@damionhunter314
@damionhunter314 3 года назад
Your point is well taken, but remember that the Atonement of Christ encompasses his suffering in Gethsemane, His suffering and death on the cross, and His resurrection from the dead.
@cuthere93
@cuthere93 3 года назад
@@damionhunter314 This idea that Jesus paid for our sins in Gethsemane is based also on the idea that Jesus was sweating blood that night. But that isn't true. First the Bible doesn't state he was sweating blood but it seemed (!!!) to be like (!!!) blood and second this verse does not appear in the gospel of Luke until the year 300. Means this verse was made up by some later author.
@latter-daytemplar7156
@latter-daytemplar7156 3 года назад
The Cross was actually used by the Church up until the late 1800s or early 1900s. American Protestantism moved away from the Cross for a time, stating that it was purely a Catholic symbol; the Church followed suit. When Protestantism started to use the Cross again, the Church did not. A good book on the subject is Banishing the Cross: The Emergence of a Mormon Taboo by Michael G. Reed. Also, Christ's Atonement did start in Gethsemane; after all, it became so difficult there that He fell on His face asking for the Father to "remove that bitter cup from Him" (Matthew 26:39) and even an angel had to come to strengthen Him in his agony (Luke 22:43-44); it carried on when He was lifted up on the Cross (1 Nephi 11:33), and ended with His Resurrection in what would later be the Empty Tomb (John 20:1-18). Wearing the Cross is a personal preference among members of the Church. I personally wear one every day, as well as a ring with the Nauvoo Sunstone on it. :)
@latter-daysaintchristian4134
@latter-daysaintchristian4134 3 года назад
I actually wish we would wear the cross. It would immediately let others know that we follow Jesus Christ. Not wearing it seems as though we are creating a division between us and the rest of Christianity that is not helpful. I remember seeing the cross as a child and feeling repulsed by it. I actually thought of it as evil! Again, not helpful. I think we LDS people need reminding that the cross symbolizes Christ overcoming death, and therefore so can we. It is actually very beautiful symbolism.
@stardustgirl2904
@stardustgirl2904 3 года назад
The cross was a torture device, used to crucifie our Lord, and Savior Jesus Christ! So I have no desire to wear one, around my neck! We have LSD jewelery that's beautiful and envokes conversation!
@calebjenkins3215
@calebjenkins3215 3 года назад
I agree! I appreciate the constant reminder of Christ sacrifice for us
@brettmajeske3525
@brettmajeske3525 3 года назад
I know several members who still wear their crosses in everyday life. It is not part of the general culture, but it is not forbidden.
@thelatterdayarbiter
@thelatterdayarbiter 3 года назад
@@stardustgirl2904 LSD jewelry? I know you mean well, but we don’t believe in recreational drug usage. Forgive me if I offend you
@chelseyb4060
@chelseyb4060 3 года назад
I'm LDS. I have been my whole life. And while I don't wear jewelry much when I do I wear a cross and a CTR ring. The cross reminds me of what Christ did for me 💗
@starlegends3092
@starlegends3092 3 года назад
When i was super young my parents took me and my family to a shop at the mall with pretty julery. We all got to choose one peice of julery. I found one with white jules that I thought looked like a bauetiful sparkle. I decited to get that one. Apperently it was called a cross. I loved it. The funny thing is, I was gonna wear it to church, but my mom and dad told me I shouldn't because the church does not use the cross. Lol I have not seen that necalece in ages.
@jayt1077
@jayt1077 3 года назад
You have a crucifix in your office. The difference between the two is that the crucifix has the body of Christ on it while the cross doesn't. In general, Catholics prefer the use of the crucifix because St. Paul preached Christ "and him crucified" and because we revere Christ's saving passion. It could also be said that we favor crucifixes because we are, in general, much closer on this earth to Christ on the cross than we are to Christ glorified in heaven. Protestants on the other hand, tend to use crosses. I'm not sure, but I believe that this stems from a desire on their part to emphasize the resurrection.
@BrendonKing
@BrendonKing 3 года назад
Correct. The cross is empty, because He is Risen!
@hullie7529
@hullie7529 3 года назад
Nah, Protestants use the empty cross because of their interpretation about the commandment saying that we shouldn't worship images, so they think that having statues or representations is idolatry.
@BrendonKing
@BrendonKing 3 года назад
@@hullie7529 I’m a Protestant and just explained it.
@elijahgreybosh7882
@elijahgreybosh7882 3 года назад
You can argue that other Christian sects use the cross as way of remembrance towards Christ’s sacrifice. However it’s understandable to not over-implore it’s usage.. it is a torture device nonetheless.
@stutterstudios4731
@stutterstudios4731 3 года назад
It’s a sign of our greatest shame, but a sign of his great love for us. I’m Catholic, and I heard a priest say “we did this [crucifixion] to God, God did this for us.”
@hullie7529
@hullie7529 3 года назад
That's precisely the point. A torture device by which hundreds of people died suffering became a symbol of love and God's power because of Jesus. Who else could've done that?
@TheDustinExperience
@TheDustinExperience 3 года назад
I'm a Mormon and I wear a cross necklace all the time.
@nathanh.9767
@nathanh.9767 2 года назад
Ayo same!! I’m a practicing believing Latter Day Saint and I have a cross on a ring that I wear daily. It reminds me that Jesus the great YAHWEH (Jehovah in modern terms) died and was willing to suffer that horrible thing for me, that is where my self worth comes from. The great God of the Old Testament died for me. He loves us that much.
@TheDustinExperience
@TheDustinExperience 2 года назад
@@nathanh.9767 Cool. I don't see anything wrong with it.
@realtomtomeny
@realtomtomeny 3 года назад
There is a giant cross at the very center of the BYU campus. The LIbrary building is a giant cross when viewed from overhead. The foot of this cross is underground, and a wing of the library is the placard above the cross beam. Check it out on Google earth view!
@Federico84
@Federico84 3 года назад
I don’t really know what lds people believe, but for the rest of Christianity when Jesus was nailed and died on the cross that’s the moment when God has eliminated the original sin, so for us the cross is the symbol of the atonement of Christ
@atlas5651
@atlas5651 3 года назад
Mormons have a whole different salvation and it's not like Christians who beleive in Grace. Christians who believe in Grace appreciate the cross more than ANYTHIMG... Because it IS EVERYTHING...we are SAVED because of it. ✝️🙏🏽💕 Mormons beleive Jesus died so ALL (believers or not) can be ressurected... But where you end up is on *YOU*... You have to work your way up the heavenly ladder thru works, constant repentance and strict discipline. 1 Corrinthians 1:18 "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."
@Silarias
@Silarias 3 года назад
Please review your understanding of our faith by reading our scriptures. You'll find LDS also believe in grace. Without Christ and His sacrifice, we could not return to Heavenly Father. Only Jesus could provide those gifts with His sacrifice. We would never have resurrection. However, as Christians, we don't sit around and do nothing either. Faith is an action word. Christians who think that they can say once that they're saved and then don't act on their faith clearly don't understand what the Gospel is about. Those that say the Church doesn't teach and understand grace, along with the purpose of ordinances (What are often referred to as "works" in scriptures) are sadly ignorant of what the restored Gospel is for. I for one am grateful for a structured religion restored by God Himself through Joseph Smith and other early Church leaders, instead of following some quasi-spiritual "born again" movement that vaguely follows what Jesus actually did in New Testament times, or absolutely corrupts what He taught in order to be personally convenient or politically correct. I have been born of water and the spirit as Jesus taught to Nicodemus through God's priesthood power, and the organization and fellowship I enjoy in Christ's restored Gospel and the guidance of the Holy Spirit keep me on holy ground. I hope someday you'll discover this for yourself despite leaving the Church.
@Silarias
@Silarias 3 года назад
I also want to point out the difference between the wicked and the righteous. Both know the Gospel of Christ. Only one group strives to repent (I'll let you decide). We're not expected to be perfect in the Church as you imply (and whoever gave you that impression is wrong), but repentance is a gift from Christ that gives us a chance to personally show our faith in Him. Christ commanded all his followers to he perfect, but that can't be attained until the next life. Repentance is a process that gears our mentality toward that eventual perfection. Your claim that we believe in some sort of competitive ladder of salvation is both laughable and sad. God loves all His children and will judge them according to what they choose to become. Do you think a Christian who says "I've been saved" and then doesn't obey the commandments and doesn't strive to apply the atonement in their life will really be happy in God's presence? Of course not. Christ's gift of resurrection is for all, but we choose eternal happiness or not.
@atlas5651
@atlas5651 3 года назад
@@Silarias With all respect I have read your scriptures. Mormons know that Grace does not automatically get you to heaven to reside with God. (Because Mormons have three degrees of heaven) According to your docterine, Grace could mean that you end up in the second or third degrees of heaven, where God does NOT reside. So you believe in grace for partial salvation but then the rest all depends on your works. It's like mixing up the Old Testament with the New Testament. The Old Testament says you can only get to heaven through works, and the New Testament says it's by grace and faith. You guys believe in Grace plus works is the only way to earn yourself into the highest kingdom in heaven. But here's what Paul says.. Romans 11:16 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work. Ephesians 2:8 - 2:9 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. Romans 3:28 - Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Galatians 2:16 - Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified We should not be so quick to assume that other Christians aren't striving to overcome their weaknesses and to live a better life. But we also know that our works doesn't save us, only Grace and faith does. It's not for us to judge others on who's a real Christian and who's not, based solely their works. Christ Did not come to this world to condemn it but to save it. You speak low of the "born again" movement but do you truly understand what it means? Christ said that you can't enter the kingdom of God unless you're born again.. Being born again is a spiritual transformation. That which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the spirit is spirit. Your physical water baptism won't save you but a spiritual baptism will. You also speak about how the born-again Christians have changed from the New Testament teachings and have corrupted what Christ taught. It's not for me to judge how mainstream Christians act, but how does this not apply to Mormonism? There are a lot of points in Mormonism that have corrupted what Christ taught. Mormonism has introduced polygamy as doctrine, And whether you still claim to believe in it or not, it's in your D&C section 132. Christ said one man and one woman become two in marriage.. Matthew 19:4-5. You also believe in celestial marriage and Jesus had said that in heaven there is no marrying or marriage.(Matthew 22:30). Mormons didn't allow blacks to have the priesthood until the '70s, and wouldn't let children of gay parents get baptized until 2019. Why couldn't blacks and children of gay parents receive Grace as taught in the original New Testament. Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. You also believe that works gets you to the celestial kingdom.. but Paul said in Romans 11:8 that if it's by Grace it's no longer by works. There's more but I won't get into this So I can fully respond to your comment. Mormons claim that they need the proper priesthood authority to receive the Holy Ghost. Can you give me proof from the Bible that you ONLY receive the Holy Ghost through laying on a hands and through your proper priesthood authority? And how Mormons make it a goal for their 8-year-olds to be baptized doesn't make much sense. How can you know that your 8-year-old is truly converted in their heart. How can they make such a big decision after they've been indoctrinated all their short life to know that Mormonism is the true church. They wouldn't even get a chance to study other religions before they make this decision. You're quick to judge how Christians act after they claim they've been saved, but doesnt the 8-year-old who gets baptized, go back to being a normal 8-year-old afterwards? Or do they All of a sudden act godly after that and throughout their teenage years? Do you still sin after you've been baptized and claim to know the truth??
@sbaby-np5hy
@sbaby-np5hy 10 месяцев назад
​​@@atlas5651you know I've seen that it's been two years since you said this to this person but I would like to say to you. How can you sit there and not call us Christians Mormons are Christian the only reason you believe we are not is because we do not believe in the Trinity we believe in the godhead did you know? Some religions believe you have to get your child baptized at infancy because they believed that that child came into the world carrying the sins of Adam and Eve from the garden. That's not how it is at all when you were born when I was born we are all born completely clean at 8 years old the reason for baptism is because agency they have the agency to say yes I want to be baptized or know I don't and if they say they do they meet with the bishop agency by the way means choice when you are an infant and you get baptized and your parents have you get baptized you didn't have a say whether you got baptized or not you don't know if you want to be a part of that religion or not you don't even know what the heck's going on half the time those infants are screaming and crying cuz they got went on their head. I suggest to do more investigation on the church before you open your mouth all you do is rattle off scripture or pieces of scripture I would really like you to point the scripture out to me and give it to me via RU-vid where it specifically says that you come in as a brand new human being created in the image and likeness of heavenly father and you bear the sin and the sins committed by Adam and Eve. Also some religions who act like you just walk through the door and go I am saved and therefore you are saved and you can get baptized whenever you feel like it. I was brought up in one of those religions and I don't agree with that either
@dane_with_swag
@dane_with_swag 3 года назад
Have absolutely nothing against the cross as an outer symbol and couldn't care less if a member suddenly walked around with a necklace or something else. However, at the same time, I'm also against the notion that you can only be a true christian if you wear a certain jewelry, especially since it's a symbol and not some kind of a magic relic... but if you feel it's something you wanna wear, go for it! Nothing can officially stop you anyway
@seans5289
@seans5289 3 года назад
How do you feel about the notion that you cannot attain the highest degree of glory if you don’t wear temple garments?
@dane_with_swag
@dane_with_swag 3 года назад
@@seans5289 I don't see a jewelry and garments in the same perspective. Garments doesn't give you a free ticket to heaven either, they are reminders of the covenants you made with God to prepare you for heaven, not magic tools ;)
@seans5289
@seans5289 3 года назад
@@dane_with_swag: I’ve heard several Christians refer to their cross exactly the way you justified wearing garments. As a reminder of their relationship with Jesus. As for my question, I wasn’t implying that garments are a free ticket to heaven. That said, can someone attain the highest degree of glory *without* wearing garments?
@dane_with_swag
@dane_with_swag 3 года назад
@@seans5289 and then it's all good. If they see it as a reminder of their covenant with God, I don't see any problem with it and hope that I didn't give such an impression. Regarding garments.. we are required to wear them today when we covenant with God since such a reminder of our promises help us to stand against the devil (not because the garments themselves have special powers of course). You can say that the one who wear garments worthily has a chance of getting into God's presence, not because of the garments themselves but because it helps us to remember God in our heart and mind despite being in tumultuous times. It should be noted that even though early christians had their version of garments, God's people have had different tools to remember their covenant path. In fact it's a part of our theology that a heavenly being like Moroni didn't have anything underneath his robes when Joseph Smith described him, meaning that he didn't have any garments underneath (can't say if he wore any while he was still mortal, but at least it isn't something you wear in the afterlife
@seans5289
@seans5289 3 года назад
@@dane_with_swag: So, if someone wears the temple garment worthily, they have a chance of getting into God’s presence, but, if they don’t wear the temple garment, they don’t have a chance of getting into God’s presence?
@rachelrasmussen1101
@rachelrasmussen1101 3 года назад
But which symbol best wards off vampires?
@BrendonKing
@BrendonKing 3 года назад
This is the most important question.
@TheDustinExperience
@TheDustinExperience 2 года назад
Why do other Christians hate us so much? I don't get it.
@mr.trevor5487
@mr.trevor5487 3 года назад
I’m Mormon and I wear a cross necklace
@TheDustinExperience
@TheDustinExperience 3 года назад
Same.
@gustavmahler1466
@gustavmahler1466 2 года назад
The atonement was in the garden not on the cross
@dustinthepatriotjolley3332
@dustinthepatriotjolley3332 2 года назад
Same.
@alohaangel1111
@alohaangel1111 Год назад
Absolutely love your comment! Wearing a crucifix is simply a Beautiful symbol of what Christ has done for us & should be remembered & appreciated, NOT forgotten. We should never be ashamed or repulsed by the cross, it is merely a symbol of his ♥️LOVE & SACRIFICE✝️ that he gave for each of us. He still hung, suffered, bled, and died on that cross & we should never forget that! We should never EVER be ashamed of it, ever. We all have salvation, because of what Jesus did on that cross, we need to remember that. I always wear mine as a loving reminder, for his sacrifice for me.🥹 None of us would have salvation without it, so why ignore it? Praise Jesus! God Bless you all! Maranatha!🕊️🤍✝️
@reverethepatriot1776
@reverethepatriot1776 Год назад
Holland gave a wonderful talk on this. I would suggest everyone to watch/listen to it. If you had a family member die in a car accident you wouldn’t wear a crush up car on your necklace, that would be horrible. I relate it the same way.
@benjaminclark2307
@benjaminclark2307 3 года назад
During the first century through at least the third century Christianity (the Christian Church) did not use the cross at all as far as historical evidence shows. The earliest Christian Church uncovered in Israel shows no cross on the flooring tiles and instead shows a mosaic of fish on the floor. The fish symbol appears to be used commonly during those times.
@MissouriMatt54
@MissouriMatt54 3 года назад
The ichthus “Jesus Fish” is common in the Southern states, and up until 1999 was even part of the city flag for Republic, Missouri. Until they were told to remove the symbol.
@starlegends3092
@starlegends3092 3 года назад
Cool!
@annoulamaraki5315
@annoulamaraki5315 3 года назад
I disagree with almost everything about mormonic group but the cross thing is well explained and actually gives a different but also interesting interpretation. Cross wasn't used as a symbol in catacombs nor as a jewelry at the very first years of Christianity but it was seen from the beginning as as a symbol of Christ's sucrifice without the need to be depicted somewhere, just as the religion got more free and all cultures have used symbols for many things (characteristic of humanity) so they turned cross to an actual symbol putting on the center of faith. But you misunderstood something : both sucrifice and resurrection of Christ are on the center of Christian faith (at least for Orthodoxs who are never include on those conversations and Catholics) and Easter, which is the celebration of life against death and that's exactly the reason why is the most important celebration period and the last day of the celebration is his resurrection (in Orthodox church that day is called "Anastasi" = Resurrection) . My point is that 1) non LDS Christians don't just focus on crucifixion and sucrifice but have resurrection above everything else 2) cross is not a catholic symbol 3) dont forget Orthodox Christianslity if you are studying the origins and the way Christian faith has followed through centuries.
@artarmonbranch4305
@artarmonbranch4305 3 года назад
I remember thinking this the first time that I wet into an LDS church
@PlotagonLikerGoanimateHater
@PlotagonLikerGoanimateHater 2 года назад
What If Mormons Were Christians, And Protestants, Catholics And Orthodoxs Used Crosses For Excepting Mormons
@RyanMercer
@RyanMercer 7 месяцев назад
👍
@ashleykaylam4775
@ashleykaylam4775 3 года назад
This just reminded me of the story I love about Lynn Wilder losing her cross necklace on the BYU campus.
@milnersmith3238
@milnersmith3238 3 года назад
Could you tell me more about that ?
@ashleykaylam4775
@ashleykaylam4775 3 года назад
@@milnersmith3238 She used to be a BYU professor and in her book “Unveiling Grace” she talks about her husband giving her a cross to wear. She was afraid when she lost it on campus and had to go to the lost and found where they actually had three huge Catholic crosses. Apparently, a number of BYU students carry crosses.
@ashleykaylam4775
@ashleykaylam4775 3 года назад
There is a difference between cross and crucifix.
@Greg_Schubert
@Greg_Schubert 3 года назад
As I recall from the 60's it is a simple argument. If Jesus had been murdered with a gun would you wear a little gun around your neck and put a rifle on the steeple? It was simply a sign of respect to not glorify an instrument of murder for someone who isn't dead but conquered death. It's a personal choice.
@johnhiltoniii
@johnhiltoniii 3 года назад
First, it's interesting to note that the question "would you have worn a gun" (common among Latter-day Saints) was asked by Protestants to Catholics in previous situations. In other words, that is a trope that we have inherited from conflict between Catholics and Protestants, and hopefully we can now lay it to rest. For many (most) Christians the cross is a symbol of Christ's life, triumph and love--not glorifying a murder instrument.
@Greg_Schubert
@Greg_Schubert 3 года назад
First, it is interesting that you say the question "would you have worn a gun" was common among Latter-day Saints. I brought up the point because I heard it used half a century ago and have never heard it again. In fact, I noted that none of them appear to have said it in the comments here at all!
@marial.6472
@marial.6472 3 года назад
I have definitely heard this before. I am a Catholic and we have crucifixes in our churches. Catholics wear the crucifix because without Christ, the cross does not have its own meaning. Christ brings meaning to it because without the crucifixion, there would be no resurrection. The crucifix reminds me of Christ's love for his people and sacrificing his life so others may have eternal life.
@johnhiltoniii
@johnhiltoniii 3 года назад
@@marial.6472 This was a beautiful explanation, thank you!
@atlas5651
@atlas5651 3 года назад
1 Corrinthians 1:18 "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." ✝️🙏🏽💕
@ToddJumper
@ToddJumper 3 года назад
Interesting, I was kicked out of a LDS youth fireside once for wearing a cross necklace. The Stake President said as LDS we do not honor the cross as Christ was martyred upon it. I guess the church has become more lenient then, but yes, I was a devout LDS and was punished for it.
@emilyroberts5388
@emilyroberts5388 2 года назад
Well that was a pretty sucky Stake President🤮 theres always a bad apple in the batch, sorry that was your experience.
@seans5289
@seans5289 3 года назад
Could there be other traditions, practices, or doctrines that arose out of a prophet speaking from their own cultural ignorance, as was the case with black people being denied certain spiritual privileges and the cross usage examples in the video?
@Silarias
@Silarias 3 года назад
Our doctrines are based on our scripture canon (Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price). Nowhere in them does it prohibit the symbol of a cross/crucifix. Neither does it day black people can never hold the priesthood. Both were born out of a context of cultural ignorance and non-doctrinal tradition. Please read our scriptures to really understand what we believe.
@seans5289
@seans5289 3 года назад
@@Silarias: Is it more important to have faith in the scriptures or to have faith in the prophet?
@betsygoss8593
@betsygoss8593 10 месяцев назад
This will change. The cross will be used soon.
@Dilley_G45
@Dilley_G45 2 года назад
Why should they use crosses? They are mormons...not Christians
@leader6303
@leader6303 Месяц назад
w
@AutumnLuvsJesus
@AutumnLuvsJesus Месяц назад
PART of His sacrifice! How dare you minimize what He did!!!!!!!!!!
@PapaKryptoss
@PapaKryptoss 3 года назад
:)
@leb7860
@leb7860 3 года назад
The cross was a method of execution many were crucified. It was a method of execution the same as hangin, firing squad, guillotine, or electric chair. If Jesus had been killed with any of those, would you wear it around your neck?
@johnphipps4105
@johnphipps4105 2 года назад
Yes
@jnkiee
@jnkiee 3 года назад
It makes sense to not use the cross, it's literally the form of murder used against Christianity's lord an savior
@jenieveronicalucy5047
@jenieveronicalucy5047 3 года назад
Yep!
@BrendonKing
@BrendonKing 3 года назад
But that’s the whole thing; Christ lives, the cross is empty. Death couldn’t keep Him. The whole purpose of the cross from the Roman’s perspective was rendered moot by the empty tomb and the Risen Lord.
@hullie7529
@hullie7529 3 года назад
Those are the fundamentals of the Christian faith, that Christ died for our sins and was resurrected at the third day. That's what the Cross symbolizes. It wouldn't be the same if Jesus died of old age, would it, so yeah, the way He died is pretty important.
@milnersmith3238
@milnersmith3238 3 года назад
@@BrendonKing you think ?
@davidsnell2605
@davidsnell2605 3 года назад
As per the video, the meaning you get from the cross all depends on the meaning you give to it. Some view it only as a symbol of pagan torture, some view it as a symbol of Catholicism, some view it as representative of Christ's death and resurrection, etc. That's the thing with symbols -- the meaning is fluid over time and based on who is looking at it. So whatever you think the cross means is valid, because that's the meaning you give to it. A snake is often used to represent Satan. Yet, a snake is the symbol raised on a pole in the Old Testament, representative of Christ, to miraculously heal people from poisonous snake bites. Symbols change. Perspectives are varied. It's important that we respect the perspectives of others.
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