Super Smash Bros. Brawl's Adventure Mode, the Subspace Emissary, is perhaps the most ambitious the Smash series had been... and I don't love it. Here's why. Subscribe for more stuff. Follow me on Twitter: / doggifu
Yeah it always bugged me that they didn`t showcase locations from a number of the games. Especially since one of the main plot points is about the Subspace Army`s ability to create pocket dimensions that Taboo can later manipulate. They had their solution to bringing the worlds together right there.
I agree that Wario is portrayed terribly in the SSE if you've played any of the Mario/WarioWare games. I don't know why he behaves similarly to Cackletta, Beldam, and Princess Shroob. He could've been bribed by Ganondorf to work for him, but he quit helping the evil king for not being paid well enough. Captain Falcon's fighter-based personality, meanwhile, appears to be more fitting for the hunter character Beastman. His hot-blooded nature is also closer to Kirby's Knuckle Joe.
Yeah, Wario is the type of guy that will try to run you over with his car, but only if piss him off. Not really someone that would want to basically kill everyone for no reason.
I'm suprised that you didn't talk about the fact King DeDeDe somehow found out about Taboo's plan to swallow the entire world and put those DeDeDe coins on Ness and Luigi so they could be awakened once Taboo screen-nuked all of the other fighter. In fact, I'm pretty sure that this actually creates a really big plot-hole. *sigh* If only if this mode had dialoge (voice acting is unnessary, but appreciated), because then the game could actually explain what the hell is going on.
I think the issue is just that it never showed Dedede learning about it, since aside from implications, all we know about that came from the website and/or interviews. If we got a flashback at some point of Dedede or his minions spying on the Subspace Army or something, it would seem like much less of a plot hole.
@@syweb2 yes, but more clues need to be sprinkled in in order for the player to not feel cheated once it's revealed that Dedede was actually good all along. A flashback of Dedede and/or his minions spying on the villains playing after the reviel isn't going to cut it.
A part of me really feels like Sakurai was just super bias toward his own Kirby characters and didn't really think about the context (he does voices Dedede after all)
@@zeospark9715 well yeah. I mean after Petey Phirana chrashes the tournament and cages the 2 princesses, Mario was already taken out of the picture thanks to Wario, thus forcing the player to play as Kirby in order to defeat the 1st boss. Even in world of Light, Kirby is the only to escape Galeem. And let's not forget that Meta Knight is completely busted in Brawl to point that he was banned from tournaments.
I mean, it was confirmed that there were parts of the story we never got to see. Meta Knight was fighting King Dedede by the time the Subspace Army tried to take over the Halberd, but bc Meta Knight was currently overwhelmed with Dedede he ended up losing his ship to the army. Dedede managed to escape as well, and he later found out that it was all an elaborate scheme by Tabuu to create the Great Maze But yeah: I understand your frustrations and how I wish that was explored more
If that's the route they wanted to take, you'd think that they'd explore that aspect of the story more. We shouldn't have to go deep into the symbolism for aspects of the story to make sense.
@@Tobunari They don't turn into figurines, they turn into "trophies". Kids play with toys and figurines, but they don't play with trophies. And the main point of Smash Bros. is seeing characters from different franchises crossover, not the whole toy thing. If you're going to make a story mode in a Smash Bros. game, that's what should be the main focus.
I am a big fan of Subspace Emissary and I found myself nodding along throughout your video. I agree that everything you point out are problems but not enough to make me not enjoy the mode. Glad I took the time to hear you out!
Honestly, I love Subspace Emissary as much as the next guy. But that's only because of the _potential_ I see in such a mode. I like the idea of a more thorough storyline, but the lack of familiar locales, the drab aesthetic and the mostly off-putting characterization were also a point of contention for a select few people even as Brawl was relatively brand-new. I think the _lack_ of an Adventure Mode in Smash 4 is what started to give SSE its Sacred Cow status, to be perfectly honest.
I completely agree with that last bit. If Smash 4 had an Adventure Mode like SSE, and if Ultimate's Adventure Mode was also like SSE, then I honestly think people wouldn't be as crazed over such a thing's existence. In fact, I think a lot of people, especially more hardcore and competitive players, would ignore it completely, because why would they waste hours on that when they can just quickly unlock all the characters and jump online?
@@doggifu It really is sad how the competitive scene warped our perceptions of what Smash Bros. SHOULD be. No one wants to take the harder route anymore. Here's hoping that all changes sooner or later.
You're so right about the general mischaracterization of characters in sse. They almost feel like those "incorrect quotes" account iterations of themselves where they're kind of smoothed over and slotted into sometimes inappropriate roles for the sake of the story I guess. It's surprising, I don't hear a lot of non-mother fans talk about that point, but if you ask basically any mother fan about how they feel about SSE they'll very often bring up that Lucas was portrayed very poorly. SSE really portrays an incomplete version of Lucas and really exaggerates and kind of permanently tainted the general perception of the character in a way that he can't really recover from because he's a JRPG character with one dedicated game so there's no new games about him entering the public conscience really. So now most people think of Lucas as this pitiable coward because Subspace took his pre-timeskip personality, washed away all of the nuance and context that came with it because this game needs to give screentime to 35 other characters and was produced in a time when Nintendo was being super weird about giving their characters fully voiced dialogue, and just kind of presented that as what Lucas was about. And because this was also a *lot* of people's first experience with Lucas (even in Japan, remember that Mother 3 was not even two years old when Brawl released) his character now carries this connotation with him that's just, really incorrect. So yeah you're not alone with saying that Subspace kind of fumbled some of its characters because there are a *lot* of Mother fans that think just that too lol
Well I disagree for sure. Not at all they feel pretty fitting actually. I disagree, I LOVE Mother 3 and SSE and it portrayed Lucas pretty well actually. Not really SSE gives a smaller version of his character arc from Mother 3 which is pretty cool especially seeing how he changes as a person in 4 and Ultimate too, so no SSE did not exaggerate or taint the general perception of the character and I say this as a Lucas fan. Not really most think of Lucas as someone who changes and develops as a person, It did not wash away any nuance and context that came with it and instead had its own nuance and context, it was what Lucas was about. This connnotation is not incorrect at all, like he develops from being a scaredy cat to a brave boy in SSE over time like when he goes with Red and later fights Wario. Subspace did not fumble some of its characters and tons of Mother fans think that too
@@jaydenc367 gotta agree on Lucas at least, yeah, he starts out as a coward and that might not be what he is in his original game because I haven't played any of the earthbound/mother games, but his character arc was as you described, he turned around to taking initiative and going as far as trying to cushion red's fall when they had escaped Galleon's grasp and were falling hundreds of feet out of the sky. I'd even go as far as to say that Mario's characterisation isn't exactly ruined, at least not in a way that's exclusive to brawl, every trailer for smash 4 and ultimate show him in exactly the same light, and it isn't too far off from when he does get more serious, despite his bubbly personality, in mainline games like Bowser's fury and odyssey
@@alextunneyware Exactly! I agree and am glad someone else can see what I mean and Lucas does actually start out as a coward but grows and develops himself
@@jaydenc367 yeah, although characters like wario and bowser are a little ruined character wise, they aren't inherently evil like Ganondorf by any means, Bowser might side with him under certain circumstances, and Wario might do it for the right price, but otherwise, they act somewhat out of character
@@alextunneyware I disagree they are not reailly ruined character wise, I mean Bowser usually is rather evil and after the Mario movie that is pretty clear and Wario could get as much money as he wants from this so he could join too, so they do not act out of character at all really
Massive subspace fan here, i fully agree with you. Characters were messed up, things dont flow well, the Maze is aweful, but it has a charm, and alot of the plot is up to interpretation as well! Such as how does Dedede know whats going to happen? Were the bosses forced to work for Tabuu/Gannon or did they do it willingly? And I also adore WoL! The cutscenes are short and to the point, the gods are represented wonderfully, the MUSIC, and everything is up to interpretation! I am a lore hunter
dedede canonically was on the halberd when it was hijacked, bowser joined out of loyalty to master hand, wario is a psychopath, ganondorf was planning to double cross master hand before tabuu made his grand reveal. all of this was explained on the official site
Its weird how of the few stages they decided to reference directly in subspace they chose the ruined zoo from Mother 1. I mean, im not complaining. i love the rep, but it feels like an odd choice when there are so many more iconic locals from more popular franchises. Unless that was just a coincidence, somehow.
I agree with the "Level Design" segment. The areas in the source games, like Southern Swamp (TLoZ: Majora's Mask), Vulture Culture (Donkey Kong Country), and Gritzy Desert (Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time) are more interesting and fun looking.
I think Subspace is sort of a representation of what can REALLY go wrong with not only Crossover game stories, but fighting game stories as a whole. It's... Complicated and really depends on the direction writers want to take their story mode. Like, Mortal Kombat is one that is REALLY hard to tell it's stories in a different manner due to the nature of those stories, in those cases, yeah, it makes sense that the story mode is one that takes you across different characters and such. It's how all the characters manage to get at least SOME time in the spotlight. Then you get things like Street Fighter 5... It gives the cast time to shine, but it's so weird. There are games that would generally be better off if their story modes were more close to Melee's adventure mode. Mortal Kombat, or even the Guilty Gear games, manage to have a work around alongside having story modes themselves. Arcade mode endings are a STRONG source of story in fighting games. Maybe not the strongest, of course, but it at least feels like SOMETHING to wrap up a character's personal adventure. After all, WHY characters are fighting in a fighting game is always going to be weird. ESPECIALLY in a crossover. I don't think you NEED something "oh this is so deep" in a fighting game story, props if you manage it well, but certainly a risk in one form or another (I hate the direction Arc Systems took for their storytelling, even if their arcade modes are "ok"). Smash Bros I feel would be better more as something like Melee's Adventure Mode or some sort of Freeplay style. Maybe a start or end for each character, but if characters need time to shine in the "story mode" the energy is best put towards at least a small story tied around a shorter adventure rather than trying this big sprawling thing like Subspace.
I agree with pretty much all of these criticisms. Despite its flaws though, I did a replay of SSE in Project M and actually had a lot of fun with it. The changes in mechanics help to speed up platforming movement and combat sections. They even sped up the trophy stand throw animation to match normal item throws (and perhaps also upping the trophy stand drop chance and trophy conversion chance). I didn't even consider attempting to get all of the trophies in Brawl, but getting them all in PM SSE was actually a fun challenge.
I never knew why I hated wario in the subspace emissary but the reason u just listed r exactly why I’m also surprised that this channel has such a small number of subscribers
4:01 Snake actually does get to sneak around a locale from another series. He sneaks around in the Halbert. The Kirby series, of course, does get some of their locales into the game.
11:15 I like a lot of the unique Subspace enemies - they sell that the threat isn't one familiar to these characters, or possibly even this world. The monotony can be an issue, though. At least Smash Run introduced more variety in Smash 4, but that game has its own issues. 15:30 They definitely could have done some Metroid-styled or related stuff with it. The map screen even reminds me of some of the Metroid maps. 16:40 Now _that's_ a thought! 17:55 _Poor Luigi._ I feel like Subspace would have benefitted from the idea that all of its stages coexist as locations within the greater world of trophies, either as distinct sub-worlds or as some strange smorgasbord of mashed-together spots with strange borders and bizarre relationships. Like, imagine residents of the transplanted Mushroom Kingdom engaging in trade with the Kokiri or Waddle Dees, or Fox and his crew having to protect their ship from a raid of Space Pirates from Metroid? Imagine people from all sorts of different worlds gathering in stadiums to watch Pokemon battles, or the Fire Emblem characters having to protect their kingdoms' borders from Ganon and his minions. In regards to some of the bosses, I think that Rayquaza was just being territorial and/or hungry, which I think is nice - it shows that there are third parties in all of this that are powerful, but not necessarily relevant to the grand conflict.
I hate how Luigi was depicted as a scared baby, honestly though I would love to see Wario try to kidnap Luigi because he’s jealous he doesn’t have a friend like Mario.
Ok, I can respect your gripes with Subspace, you have valid points on those and they're fair. But liking world of light more? I mean, I get it's better than nothing, but it's quite literally just fighting another roster member in special brawl the vast majority of the time, with the occasional exception of another enemy thrown in in the form of a trophy. I won't deny, it makes for a nice challenge and it would be great as a kind of spin on classic mode, but as an adventure mode? Disappointing
To further your characterization argument, I REALLY hate the mischaracterization of Olimar. Olimar is a man who had lost everything. He had lost his family, his spaceship that he spent YEARS making (evidenced by the part descriptions being extremely varied, implying the lengths he went to make the ship), his money, everything. From that rock bottom, he encountered a race of nearly exctinct alien beings that he couldn't even communicate with on a verbal level. But despite those differences, in spite of those barriers... Him and the Pikmin lifted each other up. The Pikmin helped Olimar slowly work to build back everything he lost in an extremely unlikely but ultimately successful journey. Olimar, meanwhile, turned the functionally extinct Pikmin race into one of self sustaining and worldwide prosperity. In doing so, he soon become one with the Pikmin's world. He walked every foot, studied every species, and salvaged every treasure. He was truly the master of that planet... ...and then Brawl turns him into a joke that accomplishes nothing besides being kidnapped and shown up by Captain Falcon. He doesn't teach anyone anything like how he taught the Pikmin to survive (and Louie to work effectively.) He didn't save anyone or anything. He was sterile - nothing meaningful happened to him and he did nothing meaningful in return (besides getting killed in a single attack). He didn't learn anything through research, nor was his curiosity satisfied because he had none. He had no determination, no triumph, and no character development. The reason I hate this most... Is because of how this is how he was portrayed in Pikmin 3 and (from what I know), 4. This experienced, hopeful, smart-yet-gullible, loving, unbreakably determined man was turned into a damsel in distress. If Brawl is the reason for that... That hurts.
Besides my Olimar point, I also feel that most of the characters are just completely pointless to the story, and accomplish WAY less than they deserve. Most of them just stand around and save each other, which would be fine if the characters they were saving didn't literally ALL DIE and fail to stop the Subspace/Great Maze from being formed. Compare this with King DDD who saved the universe from something he didn't even know was going to happen. In fact, whether he did or didn't it's a huge plot hole. If he did, how come he choose to be so sneaky and ominous with his operations? And how did he know in the first place? And in the event he didn't know, that's Deus Ex Machina. Either way it's a huge plot hole. Compare the others to Kirby, who literally accomplished more in 5 seconds against the evil deathship than everyone else did, combined. Compare the others to Sonic, who also accomplished more against Tabuu in a matter seconds than, alone again, everyone else combined. And compare all of that to Lucas and ROB. The only 2 characters that have any form of arc. That's not to mention how Lucas is terribly misrepresented to have his arc even happen in the first place. 2 characters out of 35 get an arc, and 3 (maybe 6, counting Luigi, Ness, and Bowser at the end) actually contribute anything to the overall narrative. It's 3/32 if you don't count the characters that are absent. I can excuse Toon Link and Jigglypuff because trying to make them work in the story would be like trying to make Game and Watch/Ice Climbers work (spoilers: They did absolutely nothing even in the first 3/4) but wasting Wolf as a villain and instead ruining Wario to make room for one was another wasteful move. It may sound like I'm being harsh, but I only critique with harshness because I love Smash Bros and every character in it. I critique because the feelings for this game come from my heart. I even really love the first 3/4 of Subspace. The climax, both in terms of narrative and gameplay, just hurts me.
This was a really good video, and you caught me by surprise, being a video from a creator with nearly no views or subscribers. I thought you articulated your points really well, and the actual ideas put forward made a lot of sense. I never thought about the characterization being so weak, but I can definitely see where that feeling is coming from. I guess it was a symptom of having so many characters to try and write a "here's an introduction to them" for? It definitely is flawed. One thing I thought could have been better was the pacing. I honestly watched this video regularly for about 5 minutes of it, and switched the video speed to 1.25. You can definitely talk faster and still have your voice articulated to the point of not worrying about it being slurred or unintelligible. That first section could have used another revision on the script, because a lot of phrases and words got reused. You used the words "for example" a few times, and little bits like that made that part kinda blur together. This issue was fixed in the later parts of the video, and it feels like your thoughts were much more fleshed out in the back 2/3 of it. Other than those things, I thought this was a really good perspective! The video to match your script was good, and you did a good job of showing instead of telling in many places. Your audio mixing was really nice too, and the music choices were good. You could probably turn down the music volume a *little* but it's not bad, just a bit loud. Really well put together! subbed.
@@doggifu I do mean it when I say you caught me by surprise. This is the kind of content I would expect out of someone with a much bigger audience, and a lot more experience in video making, although I'm making the assumption that the few videos on your channel are all the experience you have. If this genuinely is some of your first work, keep making videos, and keep improving. This is good stuff, and I can definitely see your channel growing into something with a good viewerbase, and even better content.
I've had previous channels and attempts at content creation, but those were all a pretty long time ago at this point and are night and day from what I'm making now. I appreciate your input as well as your encouragement. I'm definitely going to keep pressing on with my plans in hopes of actually finding an audience.
The story sucks because Tetsu Nomura wrote it lol, also explains why the characters aren't accurate at all. However, I think making all the enemies from different games wouldn't be a good idea. By having most of it be original, it creates a cohesive world that flows together
I personally enjoyed the Subspace Emissary, but you make some valid points, I don't really know many Nintendo franchises so I never knew their personalities during the adventure mode, and a lot of it was sidescrolling and mashing fighting buttons but I still enjoyed it. The Great Maze was an epic concept at first but it takes so damn long to find every trophy. I personally liked the whole Bowser controlled by Ganon, who was controlled by Master Hand, I always thought Tabuu hijacked Master Hand why is why Ganon tried to fight him, but to each their own. Either way this was a great breakdown, you make some good points, and obviously not everyone agrees on everything!
I will admit, I am very nostalgic for Subspace Emissary so I have very fond memories of this mode but I do have a lot of things that did bother me looking back though there is a lot I do like in the mode like how the Kirby characters are portrayed, especially my man, Meta Knight and I like how we play through levels which do remind me of Kirby for the most part (no surprise)... yea, can you tell that I am a Kirby fan?... but I do have a problem with these levels which I will get to later. With all the things I like out of the way, let me get to the things I didn't really like and to start, I would like to say I do agree with most of the characterization, especally Wario. I never really viewed Wario as pure evil but just very mischievous but in this story, they really made him very evil which bothered me since I am a huge fan of the character and his Wario Land and Warioware series of games. One other characterization I didn't really like that I will disagree with is Lucas. I do think his character arc here if we isolate it from Mother 3 is pretty good but my main problem has to do with the fact that Smash kind of made Lucas look like a cowardly kid which isn't really the case in Mother 3. I guess it make sense if this was pre-timeskip Lucas in Mother 3 right after his mom died, which I am sure can make any person depressed but I pretty much would have to make that assumptions so the characterization of Lucas in general never sit well for me after discovering the game he orignally came from. Though I guess to justify Lucus's characterization in Subspace is the fact that he is alone in the beginning of his story in Subspace and he does end up gaining the courage later in the story after the Golem boss but another problem is that outside of Subspace, Lucas is always being portrayed as this, cowardly and scared all the time, which kind of cased others to flanderized his character to just be a kid afraid of his own shadow which I know is unfair to say since that is a thing that is outside of the game's power but it did really bother me. Though I guess this was the only way a lot of people got to know Lucas's character thanks to Mother 3 never being released. Another problem I have which hopefully won't be as lengthy is the levels. I know I did prasied the levels earlier but there is one problem I have with them and that is the fact that the level themes are kind of bland for the most part and I did wished that most of the levels are based on other series. This is pretty much the reason why my favorite levels are the Halberd levels. And of course, there is the Great Maze. We all know the Great Maze is the low point of the story and really I don't have much to add here. I agree that it pretty much drags the game it would be better if the Great Maze was a separate mode or some alternative version of the Subspace mode or maybe if the whole game was like this instead but that is probably just me. Though I know I pointed a lot of things I don't like about this mode, I honestly still really like the Subspace Emissary mode. I thing there was a lot of awesome moments, some of the interactions were pretty enjoyable and I think it was very ambitious but I will admit, I know this is a very unpopular opinion but I do think I kind of like World of Light equally to Subspace Emissary, if not even more. Don't get me wrong, I would prefer it if the game had levels, probably in a similar vain to the Smash Run mode in Smash 4 but I love the amount of references the fights have and I absolutely love the different worlds actually being from different games, kind of being like this big Nintendo world (Though I know there is some worlds that are not from Nintendo like the World Globe from Street Fighter II and Dracula's Castle from Castlevania but you get the point)
One thing that doesn’t nullify the characterization comment but is related, is the fact that none of the characters really say anything. Especially with the fire emblem characters, they are completely portrayed through lines of text
Back to the topic of the characters acting out of character, both Peach and even Sheik should have known better to just sneak outside during a dangerous dogfight between Fox and the Halberd, especially after Snake told them to stay put. Peach was only put in her terrible situations because of her games' villains kidnapping her, and Sheik, as a Sheika, is part of a very intelligent race. How reckless can they get?
I remember not touching subspace emissary at all for a really long time after getting this game. After finally giving it a shot, I decided almost imediately that I wasn't missing much. On top of the stuff covered in this video, the amount of platforming this mode relies on compared to the main fighting mode really starts to detriment the experience for me since the mechanics of smash are not made for platforming as the focus.
my man, I totally agree. Sakurai doing his ego shet is why he inserts his goofball looking enemies while not doing the research or being creative with all the IP's he has. I wanted to fight metal gears. That 3ds mini game had more variety than this adventure mode.
Well I do like the smash bros subspace emissary and there are some who like it back then when brawl came out I wanted to do in adventure mode like in melee but what I got was Nintendo version of kingdom hearts which if you wondering who wrote the subspace emissary it’s the same guy who wrote kingdom hearts well not quite but it’s really like your playing kingdom hearts but Nintendo characters
I think the return of past areas in the Great Maze would have been more okay if the levels hadn't been so generic to begin with. If the levels had all been intricate and unique, bringing them together for the finale would be a nice ensemble. Instead, jamming them all together at the end just highlights how bland the World of Trophies was.
The only reason I ever play Subspace is to unlock the brawlers. It is a terrible experience other than that. HALF OF THE GAME IS LITERALLY REPLAYING EASY BRAWLER FIGHTS IN A MAZE. THE OTHER HALF IS RUNNING THROUGH A RANDOM LEVEL FIGHTING BASIC ENEMIES. THE BEST GAMEPLAY IS THE BOSS FIGHTS, AND EVEN THOSE ARE REPETITIVE. The only thing that I truly enjoy is the cutscenes.
Even in my first playthrough, I never liked subspace. For me, it was just boring and felt overly dark, and like you said, the characters felt verrrry off I like the world of light. Yes, the plot is very low, but I like the level selection, I like galeem and dhrakon, I don't mind that it's just basically a spirit collector
A sequel that brings in the level design and themes of melee’s adventure mode (i.e. actually utilizing worlds and gimmicks of the Nintendo universe) The enemy variety and fan service of smash run 3DS Cool bosses (which SSE already had and so does ultimate). And characterizations that are closer to the actual games would be an amazing mode.
I get what you’re saying and I don’t disagree but I find it hard to see Subspace Emissary in a negative light when you’re playing the amazing soundtrack throughout the video. It goes so hard!
i agree with all of this. this is why wol pisses me off because we could have had subspace but set in actual game worlds with enemies from the games (and full voice acting), instead we got a bloated event mode with 3 cutscenes. side note: sakurai, i love ya, but please, PLEASE get someone else to choose how these characters are portrayed in your series.
while i do agree that lucas' arc is really nice, it really doesn't make sense for his character. sure, he used to be a coward, but that's way before the game started with him as the protag and he gained his powers. at least he seems happier in his following smash appereances? i love subspace emissary, but i guess it comes from a place of nostalgia, and also the fact that i've never played it on my own, my brother was always there to make fun of the stupidly long great maze or the sometimes frustrating platforming i do agree that the enviroments and enemies are lame as hell (brawl's artstyle as a whole is just so... eugh. make me look at realistic jean-textured mario once more and i'll defenestrate myself) and some characters are... not really there, be it physically or personality-wise, but there is potential... if only we got another story mode... anyway, ignoring all that, _WAS THAT FUCKING DRAWN TO LIFE OST AT THE OUTRO?_ *_HELL YEAH_*
Huh, and here I was thinking I was the only person on Earth not to like this mode. I was literally bedridden in hospital when Brawl came out. And still, I had to force myself to play this dreck. It is so much worse than Melee's adventure mode.
@@charleskruger8607 Nope, not even close. All of the platforming in Subspace sucks ass, and the enemies look like store-brand dreck. A huge waste of time.
@@arcuscotangensAt this point I think you haven’t played subspace emissary, because the enemies weren’t bad, they were quite unique and strong, and the platforming doesn’t suck. Melee’s adventure mode you just fight the same people everytime. You either haven’t played it or you have a bad taste
@@arcuscotangens sure say what you want whatever makes you sleep at night. Also I love the fact that you couldn’t counter any of my arguments and just say it’s trash lol
Yes SSE have its flaws. But honestly i still prefer it over world of light. I don't say world of light is bad... But in comparission it feels so lifeless and boring.
This is a late ass comment but, I don't think ANY of smash's adventure modes successfully fulfilled their role as the single player campaign for a crossover game. Melee doesn't have enough representation, let's just skip over the tragedy of For, and Ultimate is insanely long and mostly gimmick battles where you fight an onslaught of enemies. Brawl's subspace has a decent amount of platforming, something you'd expect of a PLATFORM fighter, but it has way too much original content. When I first played kingdom hearts, I was disappointed by how little final fantasy there is in it. This is like that x10. I spent a whole day with my friends refighting tabuu because we thought we needed to perfect him to fight master hand
I really want a sequel to Subspace, but I also didn't like it. I have basically ALL of the same problems, especially with the world design and how characters are portrayed. I wouldn't want a sequel if it didn't fix these issues. But I would want a full fledged story adventure with cutscenes and interactions and such like Subspace had. I really, really hope the next game finally fixes certain character portrayals. Basically every Mario series character is messed up in a lot of ways. Ultimate got better with some of them, but there are still so many problems. Going back to Subspace 2, I almost think it should be its own standalone game. Or maybe a paid expansion. I think a proper subspace 2 WITHIN a Smash game might take too much time and effort. Releasing it as its own title, using the already established gameplay, models, movesets, etc, would be the solution to this. Unfortunately, if they built it off of Ultimate, that would mean characters like Bowser would probably still be portrayed incorrectly. But maybe after the next game?
Mario characters barely even have any personality in their own games, so how do you want them to ‘’fix’’ their personalities if they don’t even have a specific one to begin with, Mario games are more focused on the gameplay than personality and story etc…. So there’s no real accurate personality to them, and sometimes their personalities can be contradictory such as Bowser being in love with peach and wanting her to kiss him in Mario Power Tennis and yet doesn’t hold back any punches if you play as Peach against Bowser in any Mario game and Mario killing the Yoshis in Super Mario world but Yoshi still accepts being his friend so…. The Mario characters don’t have any real personality, as for Wario I agree that his portrayal was bad because he’s not ALWAYS really been a villain, (the reason I said not always is because he has been a real prick in certain Mario games, but the reason I don’t like his portrayal in SE is because personally I don’t like when he’s portrayed as a villain, I like it more when he’s portrayed more like a friend of Mario’s that helps him sometimes in his adventures like in mario 64 DS.
I like the idea and the cutscenes but the actual like… levels sort of suck. Pretty boring and uninspired. Other than the bosses, of course. The bosses are great.
I think you missed a BIG issue with SSE: the actual plot itself! Basically, anything significant done at all is strictly done by a Kirby franchise character and no one else. Sonic does 1 thing, Mario is a jobber and all the scenes to make your team essentially are all just filler that have no overall significance to the story, especially with characters you don’t use or care to use. It’s so obvious my 11 year old self figured it out and said I’d never play the mode again and dropped the game permanently. I never understood why you couldn’t just use whoever you wanted instead of slighting through a bunch of battles with most of the important parts regulated to the franchise with outright bias shown towards it.
