Why It is Good for a Protagonist to Lose Yu-Gi-Oh! Discussion vid 

Yusei grew a lot as a character. He also grew as a duelist.

@@mariowarion I'm not saying he didn't grow as a character. I'm saying he was always a strong duelist. Outside of a flashback and a technicality, he hasn't really lost.

@@esteban8471people loved yusei cuz he has that big brother support and shows he cared about his friends and fam more than winning unless winning meant he could save them. Imo yuma was is second to me cuz it literally showed how he came from the gutter up and he never forgot where he came from. He always enjoyed himself win or lose.

@@mariowarionHe grew a bit not a lot. His character development was just stagnant throughout the anime. However his Manga counterpart actually grew a lot.

Yes Yuga losing brings some surprises to the series. I was always used to Protagonists only loosing to a major enemy so I found it a good change of pace. Considering his W/L record I personally think the amount of times he lost was okay especially considering the characters he lost to.

I would like to agree i REALLY do. But us beyblade fans have yet to see the pay-off of a protag losing

@muazadam983 I would argue there were many rewards for seeing Valt, Drum, Bell and the twins lose and get better, but currently yes you are correct. There hasn't been a single pay off for Bird never winning at all. I am still baffled that he can't win this far into the series.

@@ventusace9054 Dude lost to his own bey not once but TWICE dude is making masamune beat the fraud allegations

Agreed! If anything this is a crutch for Rush era haters using that Yuga can actually lose because he is not an overpowered god mode duelist as an insult, when it makes him seem actually relatable.

@@ventusace9054 exactly in a franchise about card games it would be nice to relate to the mc’s and their journey with their cards apart from them caring for their deck. Have there been prodigies in the tcg’s competitive history? Yeah. But the majority of players have to follow the learning curve and get better.

This is why I mentioned the plot could have been written better to actually facilitate losses. If you just look at Vrains and 5Ds as is then yes it is hard to implement losses and I agree with you but good writing would have allowed Yusei and Yusaku to be able to take losses and have actual consequences and not just end the series. If the option is I absolutely can't make this character loose or fail at any crucial moments then that just feels like lazy writing. Even shounen protagonist in life or death battles can be defeated to put over their enemies, increase the tension of an ark and eventually have the protagonist improving at some point to come back to save the day. So the same can definitely be done in a card game anime.

​​​@@ventusace9054 I understand this sentiment, but as a fan of shows like One Piece I think it needs to be said that traditional Shonen structure isn't built around card games for a reason. Luffy gets his ass kicked a lot in One Piece, as does Naruto in Naruto. The difference is they re losing real fights without predetermined rules and no automatic magic/technological penalty for losing. So often in Yu-Gi-Oh if you lose your soul is forfit or something, and unexpected things are rarely able to interrupt that process. The best we can do is a DNF, but then they don't suffer any consequences because they are rarely physically hurt and if they are, it doesn't weaken them . When Luffy gets his ass kicked by Croc, Robin saves him once Croc isn't around. When Monet gets the drop on Luffy he ends up punching a hole in the floor and falling down a trash shoot. When Buggy almost kills him in the east blue, Dragon steps in and saves him. This is different from Yu-Gi-Oh where once the duel starts your locked in , people can't help, and if you're not dying as a loss you probably just need to rematch your opponent for similar stakes.

Also on many occasions Otes was ready on giving up. Many characters were ready to take protagonist role from him (aka Roa). Which honestly made it both special and super grounded.

Same my opinion, protagonist who lose are the ones that I pay attention the most too because you know it’s never guaranteed they win but with characters who win all the time I’m just like well he or she gets another win

I nope'd myself out during the first duel he had vs Revolver. Revolver went on and on on how he will definetly beat Yusaku and get AI just for him to force a Draw ON PURPOSE whit Topologic and his dragon that burns both players if it dies fron effect destruction. Why not revive Sniffer Dragon and then direct attack whit Topologic for game next turn?.

I agree. Not only that but it becomes too predictable and it makes the threats less threatening. I did enjoy Vrains but like Arc-V it was disappointing.

I disagree with the notion that Yuma's progression as a duelist was vague. Throughout early Zexal, Yuma didn't fully understand the game because he was always a "rush ahead first, think second" duelist. But you actually see him become competent on his own throughout the course of the series. For example, Yuma is only able to defeat Shark in their first duel because of Astral's help and because Shark was brainwashed. Fast forward to their second duel where Shark has his head in the game, and he wins. Fast forward again to their duel in the hospital and Yuma managed to beat Shark on his own, and the only help Astral provided was moral support. Another case is how you see signs of Yuma's potential sprinkled throughout the first half of Zexal. The first example that comes to mind is obviously Yuma's Double or Nothing maneuver against Shark, which was his own idea, but there's other moments too. Such as Yuma figuring out the key to breaking Cathy's attack lock combo on his own, or how he figured out the correct play with Shark's Armored XYZ to beat the thug brothers. Fast forward to the WDC, and Yuma had improved to where he was dueling two Number Hunters at once and had the winning combo. He just couldn't figure it out because he was stressed. I understand not liking how much of an idiot Yuma was in the beginning, but that was partly due to him being the youngest protagonist in the series (until Yuga, obviously) and because of the bold headed personality he inherited from his father. But his growth as a duelist is really cool in the grand scheme of the series.

Preach brother

@@esteban8471 Honestly fair. A lot of Zexal I kinda blends together in my head because it was frontloaded with filler, but Yuma's improvement was conveyed in a lot of ways I probably didnt recognize

I don't even consider Yuya's loss to Sergey to be a loss to Sergey, it was a loss to Barrett floodgating his ass with those Beastborg traps

Thank you

Which is dumb because Ash still wins 99% of his battles.😂

​@@pn2294whilst true, he loses 90% of battle that actually matter and would allow some sort of progression, namely the Pokémon league battles, many rival and gym leader battles to a startling degree.

I never understand why some people consider the Yuga-Tiger duel a "pointless loss" when I can think of a _minimum_ of three points the duel served there.

Agreed! Yuga is the type to repurpose his deck to work with a specific strategy he is trying to use like when he uses maximum or a deck with tons of level sevens or even against Otes using cards that prioritize the use of monsters with many types or strategize and use cards that can beat Yuga Goha. Because he can only rely on his deck he strategizes his deck. Of all of the protagonist, Yuga feels like the only one that would research what is meta and go to a YCS prepared.

The loss to Tiger in my opinion showed how Yuga was off his game, and how seriously Tiger was taking this situation. Tiger was dueling better than she ever had before to make sure that Yuga and Luke didn't find out the truth and resurrect Goha Yuga.

I agree with everything Mikai4738 said here. In my opinion Yuga losing isn't the problem, Most of his losses are standard losses, losing to the rival, losing to the season villian etc, the issue for me is there are a bunch of losses he has that are completely unnecessary, like you said, did we seriously need him losing to luke a third time in a filler episode? And this isn't a Yuma situation where the point was that he was weak and could lose to pretty much anyone at the start of the series and so he had to grow and get stronger throughout the course of the story, with Yuga you never really get a point of "ok, he has grown strong enough to match this character card for card" (apart from Otus but let's be real he lost to pretty much everyone he battled), from the beginning of the series till the end i still feel like he can lose to anybody(I'm not saying that's good or bad, I'm just saying I personally don't like it) which is one of the reasons i prefer Yuma to Yuga I also agree that yes Yusei and Yusaku could have gone with a few losses, they didn't need to go undefeated (although in Yusei's case it's pretty agreed upon that he lost to kallin so he wasn't completely undefeated but the point still stands)

@@Debater I still think that Yuga's loss was more to trigger Luke into dueling Tiger later than needed for Yuga but alright. If they needed Yuga to lose to Tiger here then they really should've cut the loss to Luke tho. We didn't need Yuga losing to both Kamijo's in the same arc.

@@mikai4738 It served multiple purposes. It may have been written primarily with the future Luke duel in mind, but there was a reasonable justification for it beyond that. As for the extra loss to Luke...fair, but the additional loss serves to make it all the better when he finally defeats Luke in episode 92. It's primarily just yet more buildup for a future duel.

Playmaker got a heck ton of new cards in his extra deck. His basic strategy is to vomit is extra deck, so he kinda learns new strategies as his extra deck evolves. Also, yeah Yusei should either have lost or used a different strat against the Ghost (especially with Trudge saying Synchros are useless against the Ghost). But maybe the writers should have let Akiza handle it, since she could just have burnt with Amaryllis or just add Tytannial + Lonefire to her deck. Also she's shown to actually use big Main Deck monsters (most notably Amaryllis).

@@dudono1744I agree with pretty much everything you said. Heck, Yusei had Turbo Warrior that was ineffective against level 1 monsters given how the Meklords were level one. Plus he had a fusion monster as well that he only used once and never again! Heck, wouldn’t have killed them to bring in Assault Modes as well? Yeah Aki definitely should have done more I really hated what the writers did to her especially the other female characters.

Interestingly, Yuga's motivations and desires in GO RUSH remain the same as those seen in SEVENS. Only that those motivations have more weight in the characters of GO RUSH (which I don't know if it means that the Cast of GO RUSH is weak or that Yuga was overshadowed by his own Cast in SEVENS) It's still funny that a lot of people say that Yuga could have solved a lot of problems in GO RUSH just by talking or communicating better. The thing is....Yuga was always like this since SEVENS! In SEVENS, there were several moments where Yuga did not communicate anything about his plans to his friends or decided to act on his own. Something similar happens in GO RUSH and it's not something I would call "bad writing": that has been a characteristic of the character since his beginnings in SEVENS, which is one of his greatest flaws.

True, what was worse is that basically all his life he has complied to everything Otes told him to do. I remember watxhing the tournament arc (where we didn't see the duels, what a disappointment) and Yuga didn't really care about enter in it, until Otes said something I don't remember to him and he felt the need to register in the tournament. Everything Yuga did was because Otes set the path for him. It was annoying to follow that story and I don't think Yuga ever said something to him, just went against him when he tried to get rid of duels or something

Otes literally called him out on this in the tournament arc, which led to him getting a bit more involved in future episodes.

@@FranciscoRamirez-nb4uu Yuga got a few minor nudges from Otes, but pretty much every decision he made has been his own. He wanted to be an inventor, he already liked dueling, Rush Duels were genuinely his own idea. Otes encouraging him a bit to go down certain paths doesn't mean that Yuga's done everything because Otes made him.

@@Debater Ok, but I wouldn't say Otes is a minor factor in Yuga's life since If I recall correctly the show began with Yuga dreaming about the robot and about Otes, so he has being in Yuga's mind for years

Agreed Aichi had a very realistic feel especially for a new player getting the hand of a game and we can see how he grows as a fighter to the point he is a very strong and respected fighter during the G era.

That actually would have been very interesting and I wish they did that. I think Rush Duel getting destroyed and reverting back to master rule and having the cast need to reverse this could have been an interesting route.

@@ventusace9054 Fr fr

I agree with you on Yuga. It was wild how Otes literally fought the combined full power of all our different protagonists at once, then had to deal with a Power of Friendship based fusion of Sevens Road and Dragias that had both their powers strengthened and multiplied, and was still winning the duel for most of it. They basically jumped this man and still almost lost.

I was hoping the vid would get particularly Yu-Gi-Oh fans to also get interested in Shadowverse and Cardfight Vanguard because they are also great card game series.

Supreme Machine Magnum Overlord will be the Maximum Monster that represents Yuga's strong bond with his friends, but Hyper Engine Vast Vulcan is the Maximum Monster that has the greatest history and relevance in Rush's Animes. That Maximum Monster had to be rewritten and reworked many times, but it resulted in a Maximum Monster that could help in the right situations.

You are absolutely right Vast Vulcan. That Maximum has put in so much work historically and a crucial part of even Go Rush.

This is why imagination to salvage the losses which is the point I was making. What if Judai does gex expelled and he can come back by beating a board member or a chosen duelist by Shepard to get his spot back. What if Judai enrolls in a different school and participates in a cross school competition with the winner getting a reasonable demand fulfilled and he gets to re enroll in Duel Academy again. What if Judai does lose to a member of the sevens stars but Chazz or Alexa give up their spot as a contender against the Seven Stars to get him to face off against Kagemaru. To say these losses can't happen is exactly what my video counter points and a good writer can can understand how to show the consequences of failure without being so incompetent they need to end the series as long as the situation is not a point of no return. I know why astral is on the line and pointed out that the round 2 vs Shark was a good time to make Yuma lose because the heavy stakes of the series was not in play, what I referred to as down time in the series.

@@ventusace9054 I fully understand and agree(and would/would've loved to see these kinds of scenarios happen), however they would require major rewrites in how they development for example in the re enrollment scenario there would undoubtedly be several new characters introduced which could bloat the cast or be thrown away, a very slippery slope... Again, I'm not saying that it's impossible just look at Gx and 5d's manga(few loses but still happen), but it requires a plot structure that both complements it and that doesn't constantly force these "win or die"-ish scenarios over and over, otherwise they'd be taking massive detours just to reach the same destination...

@@ventusace9054 but overall, I do agree that magic powers and other bs should be avoided and would even much allow for more skillful/realistic duels that can be lost more frequently

Story structure is 100% an important factor. For example, OG vanguards' plot for the first half of the seasons don't really have stakes, which allow characters the freedom to lose. Meanwhile YGO's structure doesn't allow that at all unless they are completely stake free or reversible very quickly, which is why YGO resorts to DNF's or draws for duel with clear and established stakes(Kaito, Bohman, Revolver, etc) while the official losses are very rare, some are a bit hard to accept even, like yugi: 1 is due to timer scam, 1 is non canon and 2 is against himself(I non canon) and the rest if any(IDR) have no stakes

Do you all agree with me that yuga is otes? because in Yu-Gi-Oh go rush, the eighth series seems like this until such an episode, then it is not known which character will be otes . Opinions?

I love the full-blown anime style character development you just described. Welcome to the Sevens fans, happy to have you.

It was useful for character purposes. Defeating Master of Sevens Road was important for Roa's character growth.

Curses, Kamijo! They are always the voice of reason to beat up the Ohdos since they are the ones who gave Yuga the most defeats. Although it's fun to think that Yuhi (an Ohdo) was able to avenge that fact by defeating Epoch and her ability to cheat. PS: You could add as an unnecessary loss for Yuga the Duel that he had against Yuhi when they were cats.

I think the third time he loses to Luke was to signify that he can beat Yuga with his fusion based deck considering that same deck lost to Yuga while The Lukeman used it. It showed us that Luke is still on that higher level and that Yuga still can't take him, which makes the impact of his final duel with Luke still make Yuga look like the underdog and losing to Tiger overall was a good surprise that contributed to Luke vs Tiger 2 which helped reveal the power passed down to the Kamijo family. Did Yuga need to absolutely lose, no but heck at least Tiger looked awesome.

His loss against Tiger was good, he already beat her earlier and Tiger’s win record was pretty bad, especially for someone who’s hyped up to be better than Luke, her winning there made perfect sense.

I feel like the Goha Yuga/Swirly storyline surrounding the Tiger duel justifies Yuga's defeat there. She was going to do everything she could to make sure Yuga and Luke didn't find out the truth, and Yuga was somewhat off his game. Tiger's always been said and shown to be a great duelist, anyway, she was even noted as the one person Luke couldn't beat.

Absolutely agree!

He literally mentions it in the video. Therefore he has seen it. And not onlt the original, but also overdress.

You got early-mid Sevens Yuga right for the most part in my opinion. Even in his duels with Nail, Asana and Yuo, enjoying the duel was a primary thing he kept on his mind even if he really cared about winning. which is why when things like Goha Yuga, Otes and all the different disasters of Go Rush occur, he gets a bit of a "GX Season 4 Jaden" touch to him. He still finds dueling fun and has kept that sense of self Jaden lost, but there's a certain...edge to him now, something gained more than something lost. He's more serious than before, and you can tell. While I agree with your Yugi take somewhat, I do find the difference between Yugi and Yami interesting. Assuming he could afford it, Yugi dueled to have fun first and win second usually, _Yami_ dueled to win first and have fun second usually. There's a difference between the two, genuinely. Yusei had to duel because in the satellite, dueling was everything. Even gang wars were resolved through duels. On top of that, given how all the cards in Satellite are literally discarded trash, he had to learn how to use any card to it's fullest potential. Yuma, I feel you oversimplified a bit, but that's neither here nor there.

That is not really a fair comparison to what some would consider the heart of the cards. It is one thing for a duelist to believe in their deck and draw the perfect card for their current situation and a whole other thing to supernaturally create a card that never existed in your deck and then magically place it on top of your deck prior to your draw phase. Believing and drawing the right card is obscene luck, shining draw is cheating in a very cool way.

Data storms are independent of Playmakers ability. His ability allows him to get a Cyberse monster from a data storm not create/summon data storms to facilitate the use of storm access. But they are attracted to people like PM and Revolver which is why they see them often, granted that was Emma's speculation. Why they appear at the right exact time just comes down to convenience. But it feels indistinguishable from plot armor 😂

​@@ventusace9054fair and true

It's literally in the rulebook than an unplanned change to a character's deck is not illegal. He blocked with his duel disk because the alternative was a meteor ramming into him at insane speeds. The fusion card ending up in his deck was a side benefit.

@Debater I see what you mean but technically the rules are referring him not having any control or knowledge of how a card got into to his deck but it's clear he knew the meteor was coming with the fusion card inside and prepared for it ahead of time. It's hard not to consider that cheating, but for the most part of the show, Yuga didn't cheat. I would still argue that Yudias is the only real protagonist who has never cheated.

@@leonfontius5300 He knew the meteor was landing in that exact spot because it was hurtling towards him at breakneck speeds. He knew how Fusion cards were made, he knew the meteor shower would occur, but he didn't plan for a Fusion meteor to come hurtling towards him at that exact moment. It was purely luck.

@Debater With all do respect because I enjoy having this discussion it's fun talking about yugioh stuff but while he didn't the moment it would come he still knew ahead of time then raised his arm knowing it would go into the deck of the duel disk all while knowing its fusion then that wouldn't be luck if anything that be anticipation. Still, it was a fun duel, tho 😄

@@leonfontius5300 I get what you mean, but he didn't know for certain that the pieces of Fusion satellite would even be drawn into the meteor shower, and even then he had no way of knowing for certain if the meteor heading his way was one of the genuine ones from the meteor shower or a piece of Fusion satellite. They would look nearly the same at that point. Even if we assume he somehow did, given how his options were limited to avoid it and he knew the meteor was heading his way for less than 20 seconds, it doesn't truly seem fair to make it out like he knew the Fusion card would enter his deck ahead of time. It wasn't premeditated for the card to enter his deck at that exact angle. Given the sheer levels of completely deliberate blatant tomfoolery that frequently occur in this franchise, I would argue that Yuga should be let off the hook here. I agree, though, the duel was fun.

Remember that saying about not judging a book by its cover

Some characters share the same last name/first name as the other characters despite not being related. Some are similar sounding. The writers forgot their Japanese names.

Actually when Yudias lost to Kuaidul everyone was stuck as part of his deck and trapped in Kuaidul space. I would say that is a major consequence to be removed from the real world and subjected to being an aliens cards at his will. It was not something that couldn't be rectified by defeating him later but it did have stakes and I am sure the cast would have preferred not living their lives in an illusion. I also think the way things played out were better having Yudias beat and understand Kuaidul and the fate and creation of the Velgear people than the past protagonist saving the day.

Yudias losing meant Kuaidul had more time to continue his plan unimpeded, and that everyone was still trapped in his spacetime. It also allowed Kuaidul to hone his dueling skills and forge a deck that was genuinely dangerous, not the bizarre hodgepodge of different aces he used previously.

@@ventusace9054 they were already in his space time and part of his deck, kuaidul pretty much gained nothing from beating yudias, since the only thing he could get from that was to make yudias part of his deck.

@@Debater not really unimpeded, since yudias just dueled him again and won. Sure he improved, but thats a result of playing, not of winning, he literally gained nothing from this w.

It is not about that Kuaidul didn't gain anything but that the cast was loosing something, their freedom and the duel was to free themselves. Having another opportunity to gain freedom was essentially a miracle and without everyone resisting and becoming Yudias' deck they would have not gotten their freedom.

Again, getting countered isn't really a point when everyone does it, hell, team 5d's almost lost to a(technically 3) decks full of low level normal monsters, and while I kinda like this episode(s) it goes to show that putting someone in a tight spot isn't really impressive... Actually, losing and winning is better because it shows growth. The only way for it to be worse is with poor execution, like losing 1 episode and the very next getting a rematch and winning. The point he is making is that while yuma and yuga ARE underdogs and eventually become great, the rest are overdogs that the show frames as underdogs for the sake of tension. Essentially show don't tell. Tell us that the opponents are champions but not give said champions any wins against established characters(bandit Keith, Rex, wevil, etc.) In contrast look at a show like Cardfight vanguard, a show that if you haven't watched I recommend (watch the original 4 seasons for my argument, they are available on YT), in that show, Aichi is a complete NOOB, his first win is literally pure luck(from a function he didn't even fully understand) and his fights show this, making missplays and losing a lot but not so much that it gets annoying, but as the show goes on he restructures his deck, gets rematches improving bit by bit and by the end of the series he is one of the strongest...And Aichi goes through development both IN and OUT of fights, same goes for his team, 3 of the 4 members are practically beginners, 1 is one of the strongest, one is aichi, one is a "shop champion" so to speak and the other has simply seen others play a lot before the show...

@@drakeredgrave6747 First of all, I may have seen TOO MUCH Vanguard for my own good, (Like the spin offs If, V etc) but thanks for the recommendation. Yeah, winning and losing definetely prove growth, but I think that they are not the only ones that do it. Since we have come to Vanguard, I would like to talk about Yuyu and Danji. Danji is Yuyu's mentor and big bro that guides him and is his absolute idol. The 2 have fought 2 times (on-screen) where Danji won both times. Yuyu though first lost to Danji, but it was a close one, as admitted by Danji. Then they fight again, same thing happens, but Danji actually recognizes how much Yuyu has grown. So you can still have growth through just back-and-forths, but losing. Aichi now is a great protag because of as you mentioned he is a beginner at first, so he loses, he struggles, he wins by luck and becomes better and better because of it. He is reliable and that's what makes him lovable. He isn't an absolute powerhouse from the start, whereas the rest of the world starts from 0 and climbs up. That doesn't mean though that you can't have the powerful duelist that wins and grows too, even though he isn't losing. Kaiba for example, although absolutely lovable, is a character that doesn't grow much as a person. He is still the stubborn rich dude til the end and a sore loser that can't think of him that way and constantly needs a rematch with the Pharaoh. He also will use any means to achieve his victory, as seen with Obelisk, Critias and the Pyramid of Light. He becomes stronger as the show continues, but he doesn't go anywhere as a character. Still lovable af, but besides the occasional "I will work with Yugi's friends to do X" or his respect for the Pharaoh, even though he wants to beat him, he is not growing at all. I could be wrong on this, but opinions are opinions after all.

@@NoirEmperor18 your kaiba point is good but flawed. Firstly, kaiba is mostly loved due to character, not really win lose record(although it is very favorable). While he is a dick, he's somewhat lovable(boy, does that feel weird to write), and he isn't really perfect he has flaws, goals, and plenty more things to his character. One of my favorite moments is when he was willing to commit seppuku to save his brother as well as some of the other things you mentioned. Secondly and most importantly, the loss for growth mostly matters towards the main protagonists, kaiba is not one. He is a rival. The ones who should face the most growth are yugi and joey. In a similar way to how Kai lost about 3, at most 5 times against the REALLY heavy hitters, the same applies to kaiba. They don't need losses because these are established early on as being "high ranked." And while other "high ranked" players, kaiba actually wins plenty of games(on screen especially), earning his place in our mind/hearts/(idk what else) as a powerful player...

@@drakeredgrave6747 Okay. I mist admit that reading back on my comment (that I wrote 5 hours ago), I don't knkw where I was going. 😅 I started it with "you can have a character that doesn't lose and has growth at the same time" and somehow Kaiba came in, a guy that is well-known for losing all the time to The Pharaoh.

@@drakeredgrave6747 I disagree that only the main protagonists should have the "loss for growth" moments. Every character needs it. Let's not discriminate here. They are all characters and if the writer can make that moment fun to watch and meaningful then sure. That would have meant that you actually liked that Aoi didn't get any growth (overall) by her losses, which doesn't seem to be the case. That feels like it came the wrong way out, if you ask me. Or maybe because you focused only on DM and so it slipped your mind?

...with all due respect, I disagree with you that his loss to Asana was pointless, and I _strongly_ disagree with you regarding the tabletop duel aspect destroying the seriousness of Luke and Yuga's last duel. I'm currently busy, but if you want I can explain why in detail later.

@@Debater Sure, I am not a blind Yuga hater. So if you have a counterpoint, I'd be quite interested.

​@@ddd7254 So, I guess I'll tackle the Asana point first, because if you genuinely felt it served no purpose I respectfully feel you're missing the forest for the trees. I don't wish to make an overly long comment, but simplified, Asana's victory over Yuga served several purposes. For one, it forced Yuga and the others to transfer to Goha Sixth, which restricted their ability to easily spread Rush Duels around while also allowing for further exploration of the circumstances regarding Asana, which is a very important part of the arc's plotline, among other things. But beyond that, I feel that your primary gripe with that duel is misguided because you're focusing on the wrong character when analyzing it. The purpose of Yuga's loss to Asana, as is the case for a fair few of Yuga's losses, was not necessarily to extend on _Yuga's_ character, but to extend on _Asana's._ You feel like that duel with him was pointless because she cheated and it didn't make her look any better? Excellent, _the character feels the same way._ The duel was literally written with the purpose of having it be a hollow victory, a tool to later show off Asana's character. Asana herself was not happy with how that duel went down, and is not happy in general with the actions she's undertaken throughout the last few arcs in order to achieve her goal. She puts a lot of value on pride and tradition, and yet she used foul play to defeat Yuga using a new mechanic. She's become a hypocrite, and she's well aware of it, and she _hates it._ Winning that duel was as unpleasant for her as if she'd lost it, and it shows in later episodes. The whole point of that duel was to further show us the nature of Asana's character and build upon it in preparation of future events, something Sevens and Go Rush are infamous for doing. You're viewing that duel under the flawed perspective that every duel result must heavily alter Yuga himself specifically or build up the arc villain in an specific way to be "good", when there's far more nuance to things than that. This duel had goals that were different from the ones you wished for it to accomplish. With that in mind, it is unfair to judge the duel based on your criteria when part of the duel's point was specifically to be a hollow victory to set up later episodes. To give an admittedly oversimplified metaphor, it's like getting angry at a sushi restaurant because the fish was raw, ignoring that in context the sushi is good and exactly what it was intended to be.

@@ddd7254 If you decided to drop the conversation, that's fine, I'm just noting that I'm still waiting for your response.

@@Debater No, I didn't have a refutation for this exactly. The only thing I will say is that it seems really uncreative for you to say that Yuga needs to lose to Asana, like you couldn't get the necessary pieces in play from some much less character destructive way.

For the first point. Yuga did care about his loss to Nail and actually was bothered about it and was not mad mearly because Maximum was installed without consent as if he is a musician upset that someone used their copyright music. The loss was also not meaningless because Kaizo and Rush Duel are on the line so Yuga needs to beat an opponent that can easily beat him is an issue he needs to overcome. Second point. Real time programming is not any form of magic because the id cards that are reprogrammed are actual cards in his deck that he needs to draw unlike magic placing specific cards that don't exist in his deck on top of his deck like Shining draw or crimson dragon intervention and is in no way comparable to Storm access that gives PM a card that doesn't exist in his deck and it also perfect for his situation like a horrible card like Link Bouncer being exactly what was needed to beat Go but would be terrible against any other opponent. Third point. You also claim Yuga used the real time programing alot when he only used it twice and real time programming makes ID cards a pre determined card so not like he can make an ID into dark hole whenever he pleases nor has he done that. Just to create his maximum monster the same as nail and to make.his ID into Sevens Road Magician since his usual copy was in his duel disk he was using to face Otes. Not like Yuga is loosing duels then just says "Time to program the top card of my deck into what I want" you make it sound like a usual win condition or something to that extent. Fourth point. If you think his defeats are meaningless then you don't comprehend how those losses actually had plot related effects or make the people who beat him feel credible, which is important for a series that is heavily reliant on more than the MC and if you think his victories are meaningless because the world is not at stake is a huge under appreciation for anything not at the absolute highest scale. Next point. You say Yuga most of the time loses then adds a new mechanic. Yeah it is called learning and adaptability. You give YuYu props for using his losses to understand his opponent's ideology yet berate Yuga who came to terms with Nail's addition to Rush Duel and used it as well? Why defend YuYu for accepting Uniformers way of fighting yet mark it as a negative when Yuga does the same? Actually I have watched every single episode and defended all my points including addressing the ones you made in your comment, which actually feel heavily biased against Yuga as opposed to legit criticism of the character (which there is much to criticize) but I won't accuse you of anything since I don't know you, just saying what it felt like reading your comment.

@@ventusace9054 "For the first point. Yuga did care about his loss to Nail and actually was bothered about it and was not mad mearly because Maximum was installed without consent as if he is a musician upset that someone used their copyright music." -I may remember it wrong, but I believe his talk with Roa was about how he felt when he saw Nail updating RD without his consent. Also it was just the second strike of six, so they had margin of error at that point. "The loss was also not meaningless because Kaizo and Rush Duel are on the line so Yuga needs to beat an opponent that can easily beat him is an issue he needs to overcome." -I guess it wasn't meaningless from Kaizo's part but since the friendship with Kaizo is kinda like PM and AI where everyone is always bullying him or using him is difficult to say Yuga cared. -About the RD part, I believe in one episode Yuga said he didn't care about exposing RD to the world because even if Goha unistall them he will install them again or something "Second point. Real time programming is not any form of magic because the id cards that are reprogrammed are actual cards in his deck that he needs to draw unlike magic placing specific cards that don't exist in his deck on top of his deck like Shining draw or crimson dragon intervention and is in no way comparable to Storm access that gives PM a card that doesn't exist in his deck and it also perfect for his situation like a horrible card like Link Bouncer being exactly what was needed to beat Go but would be terrible against any other opponent. " -This point I can't agree with you, you are basically saying I don't see it as plot armor or whatever but people can see it as a problem. Yuga's RTP works similar to Yuma's Shining Draw, they transform thecard they are going to draw into a new one, Yuga has ID cards on top of his deck (bot valid monsters/spells/traps) and transform them into monsters he needs. "Third point. You also claim Yuga used the real time programing alot when he only used it twice and real time programming makes ID cards a pre determined card so not like he can make an ID into dark hole whenever he pleases nor has he done that." Predetermined can be true but it is still trasnforming cards during the duel, why not using it before. -It happened with Naii. -Not sure if with Asana, that could be something they did outside the duel, or maybe they didn't use it, I don't remember it now. -I asume it didn't happen in the worst arc (the tournament one) because that's where Yuga got a new maximun from other people. -I believe it happened against The LukeMan, because Yuga played a card that let both players draw, but if they draw different named cards the user loses LP and Yuga was going to lose because The Lukeman draw "Fusion" and he didn't have that card in the deck, but in the most nonsensical way an asteroid or something impacts Yuga giving him either "fusion" or an IID card he transformed into "fusion", if it's the last option it is another use of RTP, if it's the first option is still a very odd and unfair way to end the duel, because they said the IDs in space were creating "fusion" (the spell) not the fusion monsters, so they didn't explain where Yuga's fusion monster came from (although that can be said for all fusion monsters in Sevens). -Then Final duel with Luke, wins by transforming his ID conveniently into Sevens Road Magician, the card he needed "Just to create his maximum monster the same as nail and to make.his ID into Sevens Road Magician since his usual copy was in his duel disk he was using to face Otes. Not like Yuga is loosing duels then just says "Time to program the top card of my deck into what I want" you make it sound like a usual win condition or something to that extent." -Does Yuga have no control over the card result? then how did he get a Maximun when he needed one or SRM when he needed it? -Shining Draw wasn't always a win condition so what is your point there? Yuma didn't always win during the first turn he used SD (which ended with him abusing the ability in some duels. "Fourth point. If you think his defeats are meaningless then you don't comprehend how those losses actually had plot related effects or make the people who beat him feel credible, which is important for a series that is heavily reliant on more than the MC" -When the MC loses a lot the victories against him lose credibility, that's a double edge sword. Would you said Otes was a threat difficult to defeat after losing during the whole show? Luke could've defeated him easily (probably all people in the robot or ship in the last duel could defeat him easily, except maybe Gakuto, he is more on par with Yuga "and if you think his victories are meaningless because the world is not at stake is a huge under appreciation for anything not at the absolute highest scale." I think you misunderstood what I tried to say. The world wasn't at stake, peoples lives weren't at stake and Yuga needed (or the writters needed Yuga) to rely in the RTP. Honestly my favourite duel was Roa vs Yuga in the final arc, and Roa didn't need any special summon to defeat Yuga, and he incorpored his fans to do the summon chants, that was a great duel. I can't say Yuga had one like that. "Next point. You say Yuga most of the time loses then adds a new mechanic. Yeah it is called learning and adaptability. You give YuYu props for using his losses to understand his opponent's ideology yet berate Yuga who came to terms with Nail's addition to Rush Duel and used it as well? Why defend YuYu for accepting Uniformers way of fighting yet mark it as a negative when Yuga does the same?" Ok, valid point, he learned that he should accept that everyone should be able to update RD without his consent, because everyone should play as they pleased "Actually I have watched every single episode and defended all my points including addressing the ones you made in your comment, which actually feel heavily biased against Yuga as opposed to legit criticism of the character (which there is much to criticize) but I won't accuse you of anything since I don't know you, just saying what it felt like reading your comment." Oh I don't like Yuga, don't worry about asuming things. In general the secondary characters were more enjoyable than him, but not all of them. I won't say Yuga is my least favourite protagonist, because that's Playmaker, but he fights the penultimate postion with Yuma and Yuya

First point - You are remembering things wrong, not completely though. Yuga was upset about the loss and even made excuses saying it was just bad luck. It was more of a mixture of someone who used his own exploits to beat him as well as he can't believe he can win. To say the Sevens team only had 2 strikes and had a margin of error to lose is meaningless if there is no answer currently to beat Nail, which is the defining issue. Second point - Yuga definitely displayed that he cared about Kaizo otherwise he wouldn't have tried to save him in the first place and not risk Rush Duels on Nails challenge. Also Yuga definitely cared about Rush Duel being eliminated and didn't just say he would reinstall it. If so he would have not defended the safety of the Rush Duel on multiple occasions if he had such an option, nor does he know if Otes would even give. Him that opportunity again. Not saying he can't reinstall but it was never made clear he could. Third point - RTP is in no way the same as shining draw. Shining draw changes the top card to Yuma's deck to a card that never started in his deck. RTP only changes the ID cards to predetermined cards. If Yuga doesn't draw the IDs he doesn't get his maximum, which is very different than magically putting the IDs on top of his deck. RTP is like if a player used Proxies in their deck. They still need to draw the proxies to use them, while shining draw is equivalent to taking a card out of your collection binder and putting it on top of your deck before your draw phase. To compare the two is a vast misinterpretation of both those things. You also pretty much confirmed that what I said is true that he only used it twice and no he didn't use it against Lukeman, that was a meteor hitting his duel disk, while epic I found incredibly dumb. Granted that is the only actual Dues Ex Machina that affected Yuga in a duel. If things like that kept happening. My interpretation of him would be vastly different. Fourth point - Saying the that credibility of beating Yuga is diminished because he loses. Do you know his WL record? He has won way more duels than he has lost. You make it sound as if it is a miracle he wins any match and that beating him means absolutely nothing, when that is not the case. And not saying you are wrong, beating someone who always loses means nothing, but the writers were smart enough to make him still competent to the point that him losing can be a shock. Same with Aichi in Vanguard, he lost a lot but also won enough to make you still feel his opponents that beat him are decent players, unlike Morikawa who would always lose or in Yu-Gi-Oh terms Sawatari who has like a 99% loss record. Also about Otes he was clearly always testing Yuga and never used his actual deck as what could be seen in the final duel of Sevens. Likely Otes would have squashed Yuga with his Darkness deck if used from the start. That would be like judging Aster Phoenix based on his first duel with Judai and wasn't using his true deck. Regardless I do think it is a fair point to bring up, but Otes does feel threatening when he uses his real deck and he effortlessly destroys all his companions aces. You get the feeling this is his actual strength when he is serious. Fifth point - Yeah it came off clear as day you don't like Yuga based on your arguments, which seemed a bit like finding reasons to dislike Yuga. No one says you have to like Yuga as stated in the vid he is not my favorite. I will give that you made points I agree with you to a certain extent like RTP, but it is not the plot armor device you claim it is. If you argued that the programming should have been done prior to the duel so he understood how his new maximum would work to justify his deck construction around the cards then yes that would be totally valid.

@@ventusace9054 First point: Ok, fair. "Second point - Yuga definitely displayed that he cared about Kaizo otherwise he wouldn't have tried to save him in the first place and not risk Rush Duels on Nails challenge." Ok, fair "Also Yuga definitely cared about Rush Duel being eliminated and didn't just say he would reinstall it. If so he would have not defended the safety of the Rush Duel on multiple occasions if he had such an option, nor does he know if Otes would even give. Him that opportunity again. Not saying he can't reinstall but it was never made clear he could." Technically, defending RD spares him the time and effort of having to reinstall them, so that doesn't say he doesn't care about them being uninstall technically, it's just spare him some trouble if he doesn't have to restart. "Third point - RTP is in no way the same as shining draw. Shining draw changes the top card to Yuma's deck to a card that never started in his deck. RTP only changes the ID cards to predetermined cards. If Yuga doesn't draw the IDs he doesn't get his maximum, which is very different than magically putting the IDs on top of his deck." Ok, there's that difference but in execution they worked the same, Yuga draw conviniently the 3 cards together and aplied RTP to them, I literally made a joke the first time I watched it about how Yuga stacked the cards and didn't shuffle them. I mean that's standard YGO, they draw what they need in the correct moment but is funny how he got the 3 ID cards together. Also speaking of Shining draw it can be some magical nonsense, but it's not like Yuma ever played a card that says "when this effect is activated you win the duel" or something he just draw new cards that yeah were made for an specific counter, but Yuga's maximun was also an specific counter to Nail's one. "RTP is like if a player used Proxies in their deck. They still need to draw the proxies to use them, while shining draw is equivalent to taking a card out of your collection binder and putting it on top of your deck before your draw phase. To compare the two is a vast misinterpretation of both those things." I'm not sure, but isn't it ilegal to play proxies on official duels? Also the proxie comparison only make sense if you believe Yuga can't choose what the monster will be, but conveniently his ID became SRM, to me it looks like he can choose, is just that then the only card they can become is the one chosen. "You also pretty much confirmed that what I said is true that he only used it twice and no he didn't use it against Lukeman, that was a meteor hitting his duel disk, while epic I found incredibly dumb. Granted that is the only actual Dues Ex Machina that affected Yuga in a duel. If things like that kept happening. My interpretation of him would be vastly different. "Fourth point - Saying the that credibility of beating Yuga is diminished because he loses. Do you know his WL record? He has won way more duels than he has lost. You make it sound as if it is a miracle he wins any match and that beating him means absolutely nothing, when that is not the case." I won't deny that, that's obvious, he won a lot, but when it come to defeating main antagonist/villains most of the time he loses against them. With Nail and Yuoh there's the excuse of new mechanic. And at least he had a rematch with Nail and won, but then Yuoh is defeated by The Lukeman, and Yuga defeats Lukeman with the asteroid nonsense, I think at that point the power level of Yuga got stuck. He didn't defeat Yuga Goha, Luke did, he was defeated by Roa who didn't even have fusions or Maximuns, and uses RTP to defeat Luke. Maybe it's not a miracle that Yuga wins duels, but he clearly was weak, at least for Sevens characters standards. "And not saying you are wrong, beating someone who always loses means nothing, but the writers were smart enough to make him still competent to the point that him losing can be a shock." He lost to Nail, Asana, Yuoh, kinda Goha Yuga but not, Roa in the end, Yuga was competent on the level of characters like Saburamen or the "servants" of the main antagonist, but aside from Roa in S1 (and Otes) most of the main antagonist were over his level, it wasn't surprising honestly. But I got surprised by Roa's win in the end, it's like so late in the show where you will believe the main character is strong enough to have a consistent win streak "Also about Otes he was clearly always testing Yuga and never used his actual deck as what could be seen in the final duel of Sevens. Likely Otes would have squashed Yuga with his Darkness deck if used from the start." Are you sure? we didn't see Otes defeat anyone with it, not even Goha Yuga I think (but maybe they had a duel, not sure), and he alse played a fusion in that last deck, so he clearly didn't have it at the start of the show, at least not the full deck. "That would be like judging Aster Phoenix based on his first duel with Judai and wasn't using his true deck." But we saw Aster defeating Jaden later with the real one (or a hybrid of E-Heroes and D-heroes), that made him look strong. I believe Atticus was suppose to be on the same level as Zane or similar and you really never feel that from him because even when he absorbs darkness he stil didn't win one duel. "Regardless I do think it is a fair point to bring up, but Otes does feel threatening when he uses his real deck and he effortlessly destroys all his companions aces. You get the feeling this is his actual strength when he is serious." True, his deck feels powerful in the last duel, but probably will feel more like a menace if it was played by someone else. The whole duel I felt the same I felt with Revolver and Bohman vs PM final duels "the main character already defeated them with less stakes, why would I believe he will lose now?". Being completly honest if I felt for a moment that Yuga could lose, was because I think Yuga is a weak character compared to the other important ones, he lost so many times, even in the last episodes to the point I could believe for a little moment that he could lose against the guy with the worst win ratio. "I agree with you to a certain extent like RTP, but it is not the plot armor device you claim it is." If only the main character does it, it isn't plot armor? Asana I believe made the cards before the duel started, maybe Otes did use that thing to during a duel but I'm not sure "If you argued that the programming should have been done prior to the duel so he understood how his new maximum would work to justify his deck construction around the cards then yes that would be totally valid." It should, I guess it was for the "cool factor", but it felt like cheating

I don't think Yuga was so lazy that he defended Rush Duel because he wanted to spare the time to reprogram it. Yes Yuga drew all the ID cards in a row but if you are going to criticize godly draws then every protagonist and enemy would be guilty of that. Drawing the right cards is incredibly fortunate luck not cheating. And yes Shining draw is not a hey here is an effect that instantly wins you the game, but if you magically get the top card of your deck to pull you out of a particular situation it might as well be a hey you win the game effect. It is cheating to the highest level done really cool. The proxie comparison does make sense because I doubt Yuga can choose any card he wants the IDs to become but needs to be predetermined. Otherwise why make Sevens Road Magician when he could just program Buster Blader against Luke or why three maximum parts when he can just make dark hole, magic cylinder or anything else. It stands to reason that the program is not a create what you want on the spot feature. Now you could be totally right about the RTP but it just feels like if that was the case he would make so much better things if he could. I also mentioned proxies as an example of cards you would not normally find in a deck and the point is not the legality(which they are not legal in a tournament setting) but that they actually need to be drawn to be used. Yes Yuga didn't defeat Yuga Goha, Like did with Yuga"s deck. If Yuga could have continued he would have won. Luke even states he understood what Yuga was going for in the duel and what is wrong with losing to main antagonist of a series. That is how you show they are strong. If he just won all the time no one would think they are strong. If you Think Yuga is weak then you should definitely look at his duels. His loses were all to competent players and he beat plenty of strong players. I can definitely say he is not weak, but people want to throw on that label because he can actually take some Ls. Heck Aichi has taken way more losses than Yuga and the Vanguard community doesn't say he is weak. Am I sure Otes would have beaten Yuga with his actual deck. Pretty much, just because I never seen him beat anyone with it doesn't mean anything. Prior to Kaiba vs Joey we knew Kaiba was strong but we never saw him beat anyone with his deck. We knew Goodwin in 5Ds was strong but did we ever see him beat someone prior to his 3 V 1. Sure showing a villain win with their deck can show us they are strong but you can't discount them either because many boss characters use their full power once and it is usually at the end of an ark. Asana did have her Maximum before her duel with Yuga but this was after the process to create maximums was even made so yes it is easier to create something when there is a basis unlike Yuga who has to develop Maximums without a life line from the creator at least that is what it felt like and no Otes didn't use RTP.

First of the "getting countered " thing isn't really a point when literally anyone that duels for more than 5 minutes counters the opponent and vice-versa... The real question isn't "does not winning duels make them?", it's "how does not winning ruin their impact?" Take revolver, while he does win against other people the fact that he is supposed to be on par with playmaker but never wins decreases his threat level. Another great example is chazz/Manjoume, we hear over and over that he is one of the best, yet his wins against established characters are approximately 3(one of whixh is bastion WILLINGLY losing, everyone else is a jobber. Blue angel, another one of the best, outside of that one hanoi woman and bohmans brother(who lightning calls inferior to bohman), she has no wins that give the impression " she is strong" Let me ask you this: if zane lost 2 Jaden in their first duel, after EVERYONE kept yapping about him being out of Jadens league, being the best and stuff...how much would the impression of being him being the Kaiser of the academy?

Also minor thing, divide you're comments, that makes them easier to read...

@@drakeredgrave6747 The "getting countered" argument point I presented is because you will say that when a character just does his thing and the other one just breaks their board perhaps on their turn and then does nothing, so they lose, we call that a "weak opponent", because they didn't do anything to counter the protag at all. Also, let me remind you that some of the best duels in Yugioh are constant back and forths and some are with characters that duel for like the first or a few times only in the show. You can take Don Thousand, Faker or even Astral from Zexal and you can see my point. Them losing doesn't make them weak, because they constantly counter the other player and they build strong boards at the same time.

@@drakeredgrave6747 Okay. I get your point, but I think your comparisons are a bit off, ao I'll talk about them one by one. 1) Manjoume is supposedly one of the best students in the academy, although his record is horrendous. But the academy by itself doesn't mean much. They are upcoming full duelists. They are still students. Even Jaden isn't so overpowered, but because of the stakes he is in most of the times, he NEEDS TO WIN. So even though Jaden isn't that strong, he has a reason not to lose. Him being a student doesn't come into play here because of the plot of the story, but Chazz's does. Also, in general early Gx characters aren't that strong at all (with the exception of Zane who claps ass cheeks). They become decent as a whole later on. Revolver om the other hand is a fully fleshed adult duelist. He is the leader of the Knight os Hanoi. Him and Chazz don't have much in common in order to compare the 2. 2) Blue Angel is an idol. Her fans love her regardless of if she is actually strong or not. Sure she has a busted deck and she has supposedly won more than a few times when we first see her, but we can't really compare, because we just don't know about her previous opponents. Later on, we see her duel, but she loses because of the plot. Although, you could have her win against Spectre, it wouldn't work that well for me at least. Spectre here represents the realitt of the world whereas Blue Angel represents the innocence of it. So Spectre crushes her easily for that fact amd just mentally tortures and humiliates her. It is symbolic. Sure, they could have had another duel where she won and she could have proved that innocence is good in order to change the world, but unfortunatelly that didn't happen, so it is out of the discussion.

​@@NoirEmperor18again, while having lots of wins isn't what determines strength, countering isn't really all that special because basically every ESTABLISHED duelist does that, they have back and forth duels, one builds, the other breaks and builds a stronger board, the other gets payback and breaks and builds, wash rinse repeat... The one debatable aspect is outright counterplay which is only done by Misawa and to an extent the anti summoning troupe(Kaito and meklords)

Essentially when you don't want your protagonist to lose just make them draw lol. Poor Bohman and Revolver who could have actually benefited from one of those draws being a win.

I will say the problem with those draws was that Playmaker was never the one to force them, he wasn't in the bad position, it was Revolver or Bohman the one that needed to "not lose". Those draws were kinda like incomplete victories

Yusaku lose to Homura and its his first loss ever.

@@yumatsukumo3053 sadly is in DL where we only have text and Playmaker didn't had a good deck. At least pthey should created some images to narrate the story but DL just reuses screenshots or changes the sprites faces

@@FranciscoRamirez-nb4uu True

You wrote a ton so I am going to simply attempt to address anything against I mentioned. First - I never said losses always lead to development or rivalries. So I will leave it at that since it is not a claim I am advocating for. Second - That duel between Kaiba and Yugi is a funny thing to mention since I made a video on how ridiculous it was considering the proper use of life shaver could have swayed the duel. But the philosophy you mentioned didn't mean much. Kaiba actually learned a lot from his past losses as what was displayed during battle city and neither Kaiba or Yugi were wrong on their philosophies and in the end the rival learns nothing but what did Yugi learn that led to this win? It is not like Yugi embraced the past to beat Kaiba in that duel. The philosophy doesn't mean much as a narrative if it is not put into practice. Third - I never said how relatable a character is does not solely revolve around wins or losses there can be other factors as well which is why I never said they have to lose to be relatable but it helps. And you went a lot into the details of Yusei but I never said a character doesn't have any personality because of their WL record. I can trauma dump about all the protagonists but I find a character that exhibits failure to something people can relate to and learn from more. A character can have tons of internal conflicts, but if they are so strong they always overcome the external forces that lead to their internal conflict then it is not as impactful as a viewer. Fourth point - I never said Zexal form is inherently bad but used it as an example of Yuma having a supernatural force grant him victory while Yuga earns all of his. You say the Barians have supernatural powers but how many times have their powers were used in duels? We know their origins have supernatural elements but these things were not used to actually get the upper hand in duels. Drawing RUM The Seventh One is lucky but they never triggered a world altering power to use it. Or what about using Zexal form on Kaito, Three and Tron who also never used supernatural powers to get the advantage. It is simply cheating, cool cheating but cheating none the less and sugar coating it as a bond doesn't make it any less cheating. You say Female characters are valued on win record, but isn't that the same for male characters. Why have a different set of standards? Of course Mokuba and Tristan would rank lower on people's list than Joey or Kaiba so ofcourse the cheer leaders despite being well written are not held in as high regard. You say Roman is not better than Aoi or Emma because they had the hardest competition in clearly disingenuous of the formats they are playing in How do you know how strong Roa is compared to Revolver considering they play two completely different formats. You say Aoi and Emma are better in every area, yet in her format of Duel monsters she can actually win. I am sorry this just screamed I like Vrains girls more and a strange attempt to try and prop them better than Romin who is actually shown to be competent in her world. Next about stakes. It doesn't matter the level of the stakes, a series ending stake is a series ending stake period. It doesn't matter if it is losing astral or destroying duel monsters both have heavy implications for their respective series. Also you said that Revolver keeping Ai alive is bad writing. Who said anything about keeping Ai alive? I literally stated he can take Ai and use his destruction as a catalyst to activate the tower of Hanoi. Meaning he can't just in an instant destroy Ai, but needs a process to do so which would prompt Yusaku to save Ai before that happens. So everything you said about how serious Revolver is doesn't matter because I never said he would spared Ai. Jack dying in a vision is a tangent that has really nothing to do with my points so I will leave it at that. Lastly Yuga is not weaker than the other protagonists you are clearly not understanding the format and meta and what constitutes strong cards between master and Rush Yu-Gi-Oh are very different and you can't simply compare the talent side by side. You say Rush is not as competitive as Master but they are in their own way and in a more engaging way like pretty much every other big card game and while you can transition from Rush to master rule that is not why it exists. That is like when people said Duel Masters solely exists to get people to play MTG but it is its own game. Rush Duel is beyond being a master Rule gateway and has even shown that people transition from master rule to Rush because it feels more fun than playing a game where going second is a curse and you need hand traps to make sure your opponent can't play for 10 straight minutes.

No offense or anything but you sound like a 5Ds fanboy. I understand where you are getting at but I disagree with most of what you wrote here.

I don't know what duels you watched but he doesn't play badly. Can you refer to a misplay he actually made or a combo line he missed? I am very interested in what are these terrible plays he makes?

@@ventusace9054 i don't have all of them right in front of me, but the biggest issue i noticed. was he seeming unable to learn from any mistakes he makes against maximum monsters. While i am willing to accept he loses to them to show off how powerful/dangerous they are. but that does not really Excuse how he keeps making the same exact mistake of trying to destroy them with trap cards. and he often opens badly vs them in the first duel it seems, so i'll overlook Nail round 1 or such for exmaple.... however.... the main reason this is such a problem for me is, every single maximum monster both that he owns and he faces, has the exact effect of being unable to be destroyed by trap effects, so you'd think by Go rush he'd learn traps don't work vs them but.... no he's still surprised by this effect he's never seen a maximum monster without. and he tries this against every single Maximum monster with ( to my memory i haven't watched the duels in a few months now ) Also this isn't a problem with public knowledge not being a thing or such. Since every other yugioh protagonist learns from these types of similarity's. Yugi for exmaple, isn't trying to blow up obelisk or Ra with Raigeki or something ( yes i know he doesn't own raigeki but making a point ) being shocked when certain effects dont work on him (heck he even uses that fact to his advantage once if i remeber correctly). Yusei doesn't forget how mekklords work and that there 5 monsters mid-duel or that earthbound immortals have a archtypeable effect while a field spell is out. Jaden.... admitly i don't really recall a big bad archtype he and his friends faced so i guess he doesn't count? Admitly i could see him making the mistake, but i can't see him making it like 7 times maybe 2-3 times max. yuma, yuma and numbers, yeah he forgets i think 3 times in season one, by season 2 i don't think he forgot numbers cannot be destroyed in battle by non-numbers once, which is more than yuga. Yuya, so this is where i sorta stopped following yugioh anime, so idk 100% whats going on in his series, but based on my knowledge, no big bad archtype in his series he needs to really duel against more than 2 maybe 3 times outside of ancient gears, and since i'm unaware if they only used the new support or the old support, i'll just say nothing here, though i want to assume he never was caught off guard by not being allowed to use Action cards mid-duel during a battle since thats the one thing they all mostly share. full disclaimer, i haven't seen the Rush/Go anime but i did watch most if not all the duels where Maximum monsters are summoned as my friends had me watch it with them. but this was my biggest problem with him. Sorry if a bit messy, on mobile as i'm at the hospital waiting for family to be discharged.

@@alexisdipoalo9443 There's been Maximums without protection, including his own Supreme Skystream. It's not a misplay, with that in mind. Even if most Maximums are immune, it's worth a shot because that's not an absolute.

Gotta love how direct you are

That is a subjective take but you do you.

Oh so you only like them when they are a bunch of unbeatable badasses who have little to no personality? Instead of someone who you like seeing them grow and develop as people as their story continues? Seems accurate.

@@Alzilla09 No. They can win while having a personality and personal growth. Those things aren't mutually exclusive. lol.

That is perfectly okay to not like the series. It definitely started odd but it becomes really good and believe me or not the female lead in the series is arguably the best Yu-Gi-Oh girl in the franchise and not a cheerleader or just sit in the background.

@@ventusace9054 i don’t think she will be better than the 5DS era cause they are quite overpowered but since that not a very high bar but ok plus I don’t think this series has any romance whatsoever I think they stopped at Playmaker era

I would argue she is better than a 5Ds era girl like Aki. The format of the game is different so you can't just compare the talents side by side. But Romin actually wins, gets meaningful wins, duels a lot, is not a cheerleader or damsel in distress and not just the romance interest. As much as I like Aki I could never say she is better than Romin in the character or dueling department when you compare how they are portrayed in their own series.

@@ventusace9054 ok what’s the deal with the damsel or cheerleading thing? I don’t know the format so I take your word but nothing wrong with that? I like Tori just fine and I don’t judge her less for except for Yuma friends fuck em

@@ventusace9054I agree with you. As much as I love Aki, the writers really screwed her over during the second half even the final arc didn’t do her any justice. Plus most of the 5Ds girls aren’t utilized well either. Ruka unfortunately gets the worst treatment. As much as I love 5Ds it really annoys me when people who love this series like to praise it like it’s a masterpiece when it isn’t!

That's fine everyone has there opinions

Agree! Yuga is a awful protagonist. People may find Yuma annoying but at least he grown as the series went on. Yuga stayed the annoying brat throughout the whole show.