Why Mercedes' F1 car has a big problem with no quick fix 

Want some fish Flipper?

Dolphin.. lol.

Porpoises aren’t dolphins, just saying.

@@spainobmxer69 I was more implying to their swimming technique.

@@daltonsikhosana8275 fair enough, I’ve been getting into arguments with people who think they’re the same mammal since Barcelona testing so apologies for my bluntness

First time I see it

So porposing is where the air flow under the car is disturbed due to exteme downforce then broken when the car lifts then repeats rapidly.

@@skro777 lol

Porpoising - the violent bouncing motion of the car on its suspension seen mainly on the straights - occurs when the airflow through the underbody venturi tunnels, which pulls the car to the ground, stalls.

How many days until the end of the seasons? About that many times.

Also 2019 and 2020

@@simon9548 maybe not 2020 tho

They will get some podiums and possibly a win in a rare condition or if a track fits their design such as Mexico and Austria did for RB those years

@@07bubbo5 you think the Red Bull was as fast as the Mercedes in 2020? Or perhaps as slow as the mid field? I strongly remember Verstappen being well clear of the midfield while also being a bit behind the Mercs, only occasionally disturbing Bottas

@@wagengroup they could win at tracks like Monaco, seeing as it's mostly slow corners

Do they have a chance as it currently stands, to be battling for no.1?

Somebody said Mercedes gave Williams the worst engine on the grid as a retaliation for the planned crash of Latifi in Abu Dhabi which helped Max to win the championship

@@Shifftee that somebody ur referring to lost their minds I think

@@Shifftee that person probably thinks the world is flat and Bill Gates rules the world.

@@perfectlap9379 i wanna know too

Just remember what happened to williams. That is why rules change. To level out the playing field. Where was mercedes before Hamilton went there. Where was red bull after vettel. The difference with williams they had many different champions when they were dominant. The others the same driver while dominant.

Also makes you wonder about that PU… all the Mercs were clearly much further behind the Ferraris on average

I think when we are in the moment we don’t realise the legendary dominance we have witnessed the last eight years. I’m sure we’ll look back and say “I miss the days were Mercedes were good” Same as the Ferrari-Schumacher era Or Vettel-Red bull

As a Merc and Lewis fan I really want to see them fight for their titles this year rather than cruising to victory after victory.

@@blusox78 I’m with you. And I think they will. I’d also like to see McLaren chomping at the top 3 teams as well. I’ve been a Hamilton fan since his first race. You could see he had something special in him then. I’ve always been a McLaren fan as well. In short, I’m a fan of the sport first and foremost.

Give it a week.

@@8020Alive Bruh Rb is way faster, look at the race before the safety car merc 30 seconds behind the top 4 of Ferrari and RB

They really feel the reduced wind tunnel and CFD times compared to everyone else. It will take then more than 2-3 races (Bahrain not included) to get on top of the issues, but even then they won't be top dog again. They'll probably be on par with both Ferrari and RedBull and then we'll get those amazing races between 6 drivers.

They weren't that far behind actually. They had to raise the floor and put on more wing to stop the bouncing, so according to those in the know apparently that cost them about 3/4 of a second a lap. If they gain that much they will be on top.

Love the Mercedes hate. Even thou im not a fan of anyone, except for Vettellski, i sense a lot of RBs Fanatics here. if any of you, would think with logic, then you would realize that mercedes wont do shit this year. There are so many factors, and yall blind as fuck. It wont be a week. it wont be a month. This is way serious then it looks, when you compare it blindly to the last years.

😔Yep so sad looks like both Aston & Mclaren might be back markers this year.

Me

I really thought Mercedes should have plucked Lando from McLaren instead of Russell. In my opinion he's the better driver. I agree though, it's hard watching them do so poorly.

@@michaellinner7772 Mercedes’ and Russel have history. Toto wanted him when Russel was still a junior and Williams have the merc pu. Also the fact that Russel did so well in his replacement drive last year just made sense. I agree that Lando is the slightly better driver, even if he needs to do some growing after Sochi last year

As an Aussie it’s devastating to see Dan at the back

well explained

how exactly will they get on top of it in a few races since ICE development is frozen until 2025? they're lacking some ponnies when it comes to the engine. reliability development and different engine maps can only do some much when you have a significant deficit on raw engine power.

@@guquadros3 I think it’s to do with the overheating, they can’t run it in a higher engine mode without it breaking

They have until this September to lock in the power unit.

@@guquadros3 engine development isn't frozen until June

@@Chyeahokay September? I thought it was June

Yeah they are in the middle of nowhere right now, a clear 3rd force far from midfield behind and from Red Bull/Ferrari in front

@@g_webb21 The midfield is not so far behind from Merc. It is just that the midfield now is Haas and Alfa who were dead last in 2021. Merc sits at about the place Ferrari and McLaren were last year. I can easily see some car from the midfield outscoring the Mercs in the next races.

Hard tyres made Mercedes look slower than they actually are…

And the safety car made max a champ last year.... 😂

have to admit i fell for that way of thinking right after the podium. but when i think back of the whole race. they were seriously off pace compared to the feraries and when the redbulls were running okay.

Yeah that was crazy ! Lulu caught a break that perez engine gave out.

I don't mind Merc not being there for a change. Very good for a change. I'm all for Ferrari vs Redbull.

I think it's just one of the reason

@@Amory98 would agree if it was just mercedes for one season, but if its a PU issue then all 4 teams with a mercedes PU will be noncompetitive until 2026, which sucks

We could also say McLaren, Aston and Williams don't have a package to fight at the front. I mean, look a Haas - they spent an entire year developing and ended only in the front of the midfield, while Alfa also took a slightly similar approach. It's more likely coincidence that all Mercedes powered cars are not up to par on the performance aero wise.

Don't forget that McLaren and at least one AM were dealing with overheating

I think the red bull problem was an easy fix, an issue with the fuel pump

Ferrari looking strong now. But too early to call.

how exactly will they "comeback" since ICE development is frozen until 2025? they're lacking some ponnies when it comes to the engine. reliability development and different engine maps can only do some much when you have a significant deficit on raw engine power.

Red Bull's problem was fuel pumps, which is a standardized part. All teams run the same pump, other teams had problems with the pumps earlier in the week.

@@baumabatundi6034 it's been confirmed by RB and FIA motorsport federation it ain't an issue about the fuel pump. So it might be a gremlin inside that's the issue. Too early to tell tho.

So would mclaren

And Aston Martin also

Mclaren have braking duct issues which hampers performance a lot as they cant push speeds into the corners - thats a big problem considering they use ground effect now for downforce - so it double downs on the problem. Also Mclaren doesnt suffer from porpoising but I have feeling that is partially down to the ride height - they have visible gaps under the floor which I don't see with other teams - which would increase drag.

McLaren aren't backward in coming forward about their issues. They're usually pretty quick to update their YT channel with info to let their fans know what the hell is going on and why. I expect we'll understand what happened pretty soon. I already assuming that it's the bloody brakes.

The Mercedes engine

i had this theory also. I think the side pods actually give you more down force. Ground affect + sidepod as a wing. The merc is better from an aero standpoint, but they probably get less down force in corners. And good aero means nothing if it doesn't translate to more straight line speed. Or maybe they just haven't unleashed the full beast yet.

Apparently you can't run the cars close enough to the ground to get porpoising in the wind tunnel. That's their big problem. I reckon they on paper delivered the best chassis, but then porpoising screwed that up. Ferrari's design is either genius because they realised porpoising would be an issue, or a bit lucky.

Porpoising limits your top speed A LOT, so that's not the biggest issue, the issue is that they can barely break properly when shaking that much, you can see how many time they missed the apex of the first corner.

@@Kevinschart I feel the way the Merc is currently designed is just a more extreme version of their car design philosophy from years prior. Looking at the design to me says that it's been designed to be optimised for and reliant on being the front runner and one of the fastest cars yet again with the most downforce: very tight packaging which depends even more strongly on cooling; limited space for cooling; sidepods designed to act like barge boards; all these aero elements to create outwash; a high downforce aero set up while the body tries to remain as slippery as possible; attempts made to increase the wake and turbulence through other means for following cars etc.

@@jasondowtychristianmusic9401 why wouldn’t they allow that though? It wouldn’t make a lot of sense if the wind tunnel doesn’t allow it but the regulations do for the race... then I again I know very little about the procedures for the wind tunnel, so you could be on to something.

Bane

Bro…………… too much🤣🤣🤣

😂😂😂

Raised ride height to make porpoising better will slow them down plus they had massive brake issues. McLaren's package doesn't seem great.

You found this interesting, you do know , that real sports channels covered this last week before the race, what I find interesting is , no one covered that red bull engines did not finish the race

@@therighttoreply4849 because it wasn't the engines? Both Perez and Verstappen had to retire because of fuel pumps that they do not produce themselves but are homologous and provided by an external company. Gasly retired because of an hydraulics issue that ignited a fire iirc.

The customer teams look at Mercedes Benz as the benchmark. They could all be playing the long game to see where all the other teams are before they unleash the horses!!

@@kohlinski Exactly, so the pumps not the problem or the other teams would have had an issue by now, plus the FIA checked that all the pumps adhered to requirements after qualifying.

Yea i think few next races will be ferrari vs rb then merc then rest of the field.

it's more like 2018 season when Merc vs Ferrari and RB picking odd wins

Except Max could actually cause Bottas trouble in most cases. Car wasn't as bad as Albon made it seem, & Verstappen was able to drive around many of its inherent problems.

he was right behind Charles for the entire race, they were lapping the field together, what are you talking about

@@johnmcglasson3287 yea but he used 2020 Max's example to explain Mercedes this year. Right now, Red Bull itself is pretty good, just need to sort whatever reliability issue they had, but back then not so much.

oh no, you sound serious! /s

Still much more exciting than fighting for p15 in the williams

I imagine he felt really good about having to provide a tow to his teammate throughout all of the qualifying sessions. Welcome to team politics Russell.

I mean better than being in the William's and being 15th

@@trappenweisseguy27 yeah checo Perez is enjoying that as well

@@baumabatundi6034 of course, but when he was with Williams it was understood that that was going to be the case and the reason he switched to Mercedes was to compete for top three legitimately and not have 4th and consider it "damage limitations"just because people in front of you dnf'd 🤷🏻‍♂️ idk maybe they'll turn it around.

Similar? They weren’t 30-40 seconds off the pace last year. You sure watched last year?

thats what it seems at the face of it atleast, but we cant be certain.

@@KosmicHRTRacingTeam because they messed up the strategy. Toto wolf called it something in the lines with "Having our hand in the toilet" about the strategy.

The problem last year and the problem this year are not the same. With new regs all teams can improve alot and that was not the case last year. Redbull and ferrari might find another 1 second with upgrades and that means merc needs to find 2. Last year mercedes lost a bit of an advantage because of the high rake cars. This year they seem to be way off. Its hard to tell exactly after one race and one track.

The problem is, they weren't the title winning car anyways lol

Same here, i want to see Lewis win his 8th

For the sake of everyone? But everyone wants a different challenger

@@user-sx4zi8ux6s speak for yourself, I want to see Mercedes going back to dominating the rest of the track.

@@Jesusblowsme666 in awe at how a human being can be so devoid from the concept of "fun"

@@user-sx4zi8ux6s easy, its called having different opinions.

To think Williams could've been it's own lead PU team back in the day (BMW), and not have to rely on someone else, but they rejected it! The Williams family should've accepted BMW taking over Williams in the 2000's!

better than a dead engine though.

@@eden5260 true! If RB cars keep dying late in the race, that’s worse than slow.

Yea I’m more pissed off since I’m a fan of Seb and Daniel. They’ve fought Merc power all along in races where it was an uphill battle and now when they join it disappoints. Like Alonso said about Seb in 2013, “the 8 world titles will be taken much worse if they don’t win when they’re not the best”

@@mikespearwood3914 and look what good that did for the sauber team. Who did....

Don't be. He drives for Senorito Verstappen. Once Verstappen is out, he has no purpose.

@@igisanchez265 I wish teams didn’t do that the other drivers but it is a reality. Valteri did it for Lewis and Reubens did it for Michael at Ferrari.

Yeah, he wan't even one corner away from the start/finish line.

@@igisanchez265 keep hating son, Max is your world champion. The true champ.

@@baclava69 go back to your video games, you toddler.

That is also assuming Ferrari or Red Bull won't develop the car throughout the season. I hope Ferrari learn from 2021 that Mercedes can possibly undercut towards the end. As a Ferrari fan I hope they continue to perform at a high level till the end, but I remain cautious

Plus that was not entirely due to the engine. In Qatar and Saudi, mercedes used their old engine and still won.

@@DanishAZ-mp7tm The closer you get to the limit, there less room for improvement. Merc might have picked the wrong aero design and might have already reached the limit but it is possible, they have more room to improve compared to others. Only time can tell, everything else (including experts) is speculation.

It wasn’t out of nowhere, Lewis’ Merc had a brand new engine to put in for last handful of races. That was all.

Thank you, everyone is talking about Merc's PU but qll of thier cars finished the race, RB lost 3/4 of thier cars in the race. Reliability issues can be a Pandora's box and RB could be in trouble if things keep breaking

Well said.

No

No need to catch up to Red Bulls since their cars last only 55 laps

I'd rather have HAAS and an Alfa up there than Mercedes again

@@ForzaVryheid I don't really care if it's Mercedes, McLaren, Haas, or Alfa, but I'm being realistic.

The manufacturer that wins the previous year gets the least amount of wind tunnel time , ao i think that is what happend to them . All testing is done under fia supervision, only wind tunnels and sims the teams are allowed to test the cars .

They can make some changes through the season , but not too drastic

Hope that answers some of your questions lad , i dont know much about f1 so dont quote me on anything 🤣

These are not spec cars like Indycar, F2 or F3. Each team develops their own car that fits within the rules. There were several "new" changes also. The tire and rim size and weight are greater this year. The cars are heavier. Lots of variables, but with just the extra tire and wheel weight they had to redesign the car to be lighter but not below regulations. If you have F1tv find Sam Collins and tech talk for engineering for nerds. Cheers

Don't forget the new e10 fuel guys

it's not what it achieves in the speed trap it's how it gets to its speed and how quick, aka when redbull was moaning about the gigaengine in brazil, it wasn't even the fastest in the speed trap, was raikonen's alfa, but it's how you get there as i relate.

There's still a lot of tricks they can do to optimise performance without changing the engine design, just like Honda have done in years prior.

It’s not suspicious if you know that F1 is a scripted sport

@@denzel9086 🤣

Not suspicious, the e10 is a quite different fuel

You mean like every year. 😂 I never heard so many professionals in F1 say " sandbagging " as much as they did last weekend. Well, now we know it was not sandbagging for that race...or was it???

Delighted to see Max and Perez out of the car before the race finished 😂

@@Slipstream_merchant pain..

@@f1andfootball835 what? What did he say that was out of line?…stop being a child he didn’t say he hoped they crashed out or that he hated them unlike others

@@Slipstream_merchant they'll fix their issue fosho get ready for ferrari redbull fight

@@Slipstream_merchant Yeah.. It'll be really nice to see another championship decider in Spa. 10 races before the end.. Let's hope the only competitors won't finish! You have to be a real F1 fan..

The lack of sidepods is part of their problem.

what did horner say?

@@Rishi3404 apperantly this was a whule ago, where he stated that wolff was given this well oiled machine and didnt really have to work on it like horner "had" to when he was building rbr with mattesitch and marko

@@larikauranen2159 Well, he's not wrong... Mercedes inherited a championship winning crew and car, the W01 was very close in comparison with the BGP01. Yet they still fell to 4th in the standings the next year. Horner and Marko picked up a trashed Jaguar that never finished above 7th. They only started to improve after Newey arrived for 2007.

@@gustavomarques4097 rbr has never been a team i've taken seriously in the sport. Even when redbull was saubers main sponsor. People complain about wolffs reactions during last season, but tend to forget that's basically how marko and horner have operated, which certainly makes them stand out more and creates a unique environment with in the team. Wolff switched from williams to mercedes in 2013 and next year hit the ground running.. i see this argument as valid, but saying something like that to the public just makes me think of one thing. His jealousy. The team under wolff must have done something right to have won 8 cc in a row

@@larikauranen2159 definitely. if only the f1 community could learn to appreciate.

Seriously? Exactly that sidepod design is their problem! Its a new technical regulary! And they come up with an evolution of a concept that got beaten to death since 2017... other went for completely new concepts! While Mercedes made an evolution. Radical maybe, bur nothing new. Its only an evolution. And this sidepod design is the root of all of their pain. Its obvious. Mercedes is the only team to have sidepods running all the way down to the floor. So they have a totally different pressure zone in front of the inlet of their sidepods and hence in front of their tunnel inlet. You need a high pressure zone there, because the vortices to seal the floor are created by incoming high pressure air from the front vanes under the floor and lower pressure air on top of it. This might sound counter-intuitive but this area of the floor is a high pressure zone, and almost all teams except of Mercedes and Williams are "feeding" it with their sidepod inlets NOT going down to the floor and being high. Ferrari is the perfect example - the area under their inlet is a massive high pressure zone and that feeds their tunnel entrance with additional high pressure. Mercedes has the problem that they do not have enough high pressure there, as they do not have a high pressure zone under their sidepod inlet. Their sidepods are running right down to the floor. They probably also have the problem that the flow on top of the floor is not favorable enough or does not create enough outwash. Their latest change of their sidepods clearly shows that they need to improve here, but obviously it didn't work. To get anywhere near the downforce of other cars they have to run their car pretty low because of all these aero limitations. This induces porpoising. But how should they get rid of it? They cannot drive at higher ride heights as they loose to much downforce and performance...but at low ride heights porpoising hurts them. The are trapped. And the problem lies within their car concept and sidepod concept. So its a huge problem. Almost a disaster! They have to complete change their car and sidepods. Another problem is their airbox/roll-hoop and engine cover. Mercedes decided to try to get more air over the diffuser. Thats always beneficial, as the it creates upwash that drives the floor. But what drives the floor most is the rear wing that drives the "new" beanwing. They create a much bigger upwash than air over the top of the diffuser and floor performance is much better of course. To make the rear and beamwing work harder, you have to get as much air to them as possible. But Mercedes designed a cooling package that actually hurts rear-wing performance(because they wanted to maximise air over the top of the diffuser - wrong decision, they played it safe and did an evolution of what they did for a few years instead of a new radical approach and concept)because to be able to run their small and wrong sidepods, they had to pack everything in the engine cover area and airbox. So the car has a huge airbox and broad shoulders. That hurts rear-wing performance extremely. Thats also the reason why they need more rear-wing, what results in more drag and less topspeed...so as you see - Mercedes concept is totally wrong this time. And its almost impossible to do anything against it. They have to completely redesign their cooling system, airbox, sidepods and all components in the area of the engine. Thats not possible during a season..not even if there would be no budget cap or restrictions regarding windtunnel and cfd. Mercedes will have to live with the fact that their got it completely wrong and their car has an aero-concept that is totally wrong and has massive disadvantages and problems. They can play around with different floor designs. But thats it and it will bring them nowhere near Red Bull and Ferrari. Its far more likely they will even fall behind Haas and one or two other teams, as these teams have a concept thats right. And they have a big developement potential, while Mercedes in that regard - there is not much you can do with a horribly wrong concept....and Mercedes already knows all that since Barcelona. Their updates in testing in Bahrain showed clearly they recognized their problem and tried to minimise the damage within the limits their concept gives them. So sorry - but realise this sidepods design is bs. Its the totally wrong approach to this kind of regulary. But thats also F1...the team thats in front usually do not want to take huge risks. So they play it save and evolve, not do something completely new. Thats what Mercedes did. From Micro-Sidepods to Micro-Micro-Sidepods when others brought radical new sidepods. Unfortunately for Mercedes with a new technical regulary its always the new concept to win. But thats how all dominations find their end...the leading team "only" evolves while other bring in new concepts...Mercedes won't dominate anything that year. Thats for sure. Their whole aero-concept is completely wrong and they cannot change that in a way that it could match RB or Ferrari.

I am sure they will improve but Ferrari is already ahead of them

@@fam.hunger5244 bro wtf 😳 I tried to read your essay but I just gave up 4 pages into it 😂

I thought the rumour was with the red bulls it was a supplied fuel pipe that failed not the actual engine, however the alpha was the engine

@AUStin yeah that was it

The only Red Bull engine issue was Gasly's MGU-K Verstappen and Perez's issue came from the fuel pump, a spec part between all teams handed out by the FIA

@@fkez0510 so a spec part that's on all 22 cars failed at the same time on only 2 cars from the same team 🤣🤣🤣 If you believe that, go get a lottery ticket.

@@TrickyTree84 it failed on both RedBulls because they hadn't done low fuel runs before and didn't think it was as bad. It is literally fact that all teams had raised concerns about the fuel pumps and some like McLaren changed theirs overnight just in case If you believe there's something else going on here then you need to check your facts buddy

I don’t think it’s that bad and the cars are padded and built like coffins

DC: "Lewis are you disappointed that RB have built a car that can't finish a race" Lewis: "very, very 😊"

That also means that all Merc-powered (slow in speed traps) cars are running the engine only as hard as Mercedes say so.....

Agreed. They have to run at a lower power because they are running the car higher to counteract the porpoising.

@@damiendegrasse Yep, HPP (like other engine supliers) will provide their customers, engines maps that they can run the engine with, the question here is how conservative those maps are. I think Merc as a team can't use other maps without suppling them to their customers but other teams can't run different maps that havent been supplied by its engine manufacture, otherwise we would see a lot of engines being blown. Specially with a 4 year engine freeze in effect. I think they will turn up the engine bit by bit and see what breaks, fix that, turn up a bit more and so on... We saw multiple issues with RB PU, Gasly on flames, both RB with a "fuel issue"... Just my guess anyway.

Technically 4 if you count Haas

Wolffe explained Mercedes were running higher downforce to compensate for having to raise the ride height to reduce purposing. Which reduced their top speed. So Mercedes engine might still be a strong unit!!

But they can only do that with a windtunnel, and they barely got any time there

@Martin Pedersen ..no not true. What they are finding is that they can't duplicate the porpoising in the wind tunnel. So it will have to be fixed based on track time and computer time.

They will not figure it out in the next 2 races. They have serious issues in many areas.

Don't worry, once we find the solution to the problem I hope you can say the same about hearing the British national anthem 😘

I think both Red Bulls ran out of fuel?

The Honda engine badges as RedBull Powertrains did not suffer a PU failure, RB said it was a Fuel pump issue which is given by the FIA to all teams, that’s what I have heard so far.

Not really, it was a fuel pump issue, should be able to fix it.

Agreed 100%! The interplay between complex variables is often very hard to determine. As you said, strict adherence to small, unobvious details is key to success. Niki was consistently one of the best with this type of critical thinking

Let's hope these bastards never fix it.

@@michaeltrumph121 live long my friend. Will be back after the season to see if our wishes come true.

@@michaeltrumph121 you need a therapist my friend

@@michaeltrumph121 a 3 way battle at the top is better than a 2 way battle

@@benward1347 As long as it doesn't involve Mercedes and Crymilton, I don't mind if it's a 10 way battle at the top. But I'd love a Ferrari dominance.

Mercedes turned down their engines to match the increased drag when they raised the ride height of their cars for the first race of the season, while they try to solve the bouncing problem. As soon as they get it right and share the engine data,with the customer teams who knows? Merc engined cars could end up higher on the grid. Nothing to do with sensors; if it is sensors why would three engines from one manufacturer blow up within minutes of each other?

Every team has to fine tune their setup.

Yeah you are not delusional at all

Not a chance. That's like saying "if merc finish ahead they'll win" No shit sherlock.

We shall see by the end of the season, I suspect we will see a lot more bulls dead on track this season. Reliability issuses can be a Pandora's box

But the Ferrari has some secrets in its design that we can’t see yet! As the year goes on we shall see what happens!

Yeah for all we know their engines degrade faster and halfway through the year they are limping with cost cap constraints. (Pure mental hypothetical) The season is just starting, all we know is where they are at this second

@Cyril Ogude I'm a Ferrari man, but saw a lot of 'salty haters' when RB had their DNFs. Why so sensitive?

I want RB to fail

@@rishisunak2024 they deserve it. You don't seem bothered by the Mercedes and Hamilton haters though do you??

@@trance9158 i just want haas to be good or on podium ;(

@@trance9158 they must be rb fans?idk Many other f1 fans hate merc and their fan base simply because most of them are bandwagon(their opinion, not mine)