Why Michael Jordan's 6 Titles Trump Bill Russell's 11 

Bill was the main reason for the Celtics winning the Championship. Reason being, he is the 1 person that was there for every Championship

Considering Bill Russell best skill was his rebounding. Yet he only won 4 rebounding titles. While Wilt Chamberlain won the record 11.

Russell may be the best all time defender. He's an inspiration to people like Jordan's teamnate Dennis Rodman.

1962 Finals - Russ averaged 23-27-6 on 54%, led his team in pts/rebs/FG% 1963 Finals - Russ averaged 20-26-5 on 47% 1965 Finals - Russ averaged 18-25-6 on 70%, NBA Finals record for FG% 1966 Finals - Russ averaged 24-24-4 on 54%, led his team in pts/rebs/FG% #1 D every year

There was also no Free-Agency. Once Players were drafted for a team they finished their careers there

Got to disagree with one point, while Robert Horry was definitely just a role player, he was NOT easily replaceable. He earned the nickname "Big Shot Bob"

Russell played in an era where there were only 8 teams and the Celtics had all the best players so of course they won all those championships. Russell only averaged 15 points per game and shot a TERRIBLE 44% for his career which for a center is absolutely horrific. He was either a terrible shooter or had an awful shot selection or a combination of both to shoot that bad of a percentage. I wouldn't have Russell in my top 40 players of all time. No joke...

Back then, the league still had a regional draft pick, which I believe the Celtics used to get Tommy Heinsohn...They were also able to basically purchase Cousy...How many HoF'ers surrounded Russell, too?

Bill Russell was blessed with consistently having an all-star team, which is why he won 11 rings. Wilt Chamberlain wasn't so blessed with his 76ers team.

Jordan is undefeated and never went to a Game 7

They are Both GREAT but MJ is the Goat that’s my opinion

Enjoyed video just wanted to point out Jordan only had to win 15 games in playoffs. Round 1 was best of 5 until early 2000s.

there's a reason why he's not in GOAT discussions. it's not specifics or statistics only. how they are accomplished and what have been accomplished. and man, MJ literally got ALL the accolades in a single season. regular season MVP/finals MVP/DPOY/scoring title/etc. and he's the only man who has done that. not to mention his game is finesse/artistic/beautifully-crafted be it dunks or shots.

LeBron fanboys usually bring out the Bill Russell to knock Jordan down. But their logic doesn't explain 2016, when LeBron won 3 championships and the LeBron fanboys immediately jumped on Jordan over Magic, Kareem, and Kobe, who won 5 and 6 championships.🤣 Russell is currently rated roughly 5-7 all-time, which I think he deserves a little bit more credit than that tho. I don't think it's right to put Russell low too much, and I don't think it's right to put him up too high. I think part of the reason Russell doesn't get as much credit as he deserves despite his 11 titles is that he's second to Chamberlain as a player.

Russell won the same amount of playoffs per year that Jordan did (27 in 13 years vs 30 in 15 years). So less playoff rounds for Russell does not really hold up as a slight against him. Russell was never swept yet Jordan was twice. Russell lead 8 of those 11 titles in win shares, all 11 in defensive win shares, all 11 in rebounding, and 2 of them in assists. Jordan lead 6 in win shares, and scoring, 1 in defensive win shares, and 1 in assists. Yet somehow Jordan's 6 > Russell's 11? Oh wait I know the typical Jordan fan routine of"less teams = worse!" 5 problems with that notion: 1. It is confusing quantity with quality. More teams does not necessarily = better. If the NBA adds 8 G-league teams to the NBA now will that make the competition better? No. Just more teams. Now if it's more quality + more quantity that's different. However, the notion that less teams = automatically easier is not true. If you took the NBA down to 8 teams now would that make it easier? Not necessarily. It would mean only the top 25% in the league would get to remain. *(I know less global talent and less money is also used to diminish Russell, however Jordan fans never use this logic to put today's players ahead of Jordan. You can't use to to help Jordan and then ignore it for those after Jordan). 2. Russell's team kept winning when there were 8 teams, 10 teams, and 14 teams. Adding more teams did not slow them down at all. Russell retiring did. 3. There were less teams in the 80s than in the 90s. Yet Jordan won nothing in the 80s and not until the 90s. Per Jordan fan logic it should have been easier to win in the less team 80s. *if the retort is that the 80s teams he faced were great, then that proves my point in 1. That quantity does not in itself = quality. 4. "Russell's PPG! Russell's FG%!" Compared to their league's averages Russell was at 105 and Jordan was at 106 for FG% (100 is right at league average). Russell was in the same plane as Jordan when it came to FG efficiency. Russell did "only" average 15 PPG but he quadrupled Jordan in rebounding per game and his defensive impact gap was larger than Jordan's assisting gap. So there is not a good argument that Russell's individual output = his titles mean less than Jordan's. Plus how many series did Russell's team lose because of his lack of PPG? You can only argue 1 which is 1967 vs Wilt's Sixers. The other series they lost in 1958 Russell was injured. Where as with Jordan his teams lost 7 playoff series and he put up high PPG in all of them. He got swept in the series of his highest playoff PPG vs the 80s Celtics. Individual PPG does not decrease anything about what Russell won. 5. "Russell had a lot of hall of famers on his team!" Well for starters someone just being voted into the hall after their career is over does not prove how much "help" they provided to the best player on a title team. Also Russell won with Cousy, and without. He won with rookie Havlicek after Cousy left. He even won 2 without Red and taking Red's job as coach while playing and Cousy was not there for that. That would be like Jordan taking Phil's job and not having Pippen anymore replaced by someone else, and still winning 2 titles. Even Sam Jones who was there for 10 of them was not there for all 11. Russell was the only one main common denominator for all 11. While Jordan had Phil and Pippen for all 6. You can rank Jordan over Russell on your list I am not trying to convince anyone to rank Russell over him. I am challenging the notion that Jordan's 6 > Russell's 11 and highlighting that the common diminishing routines used on Russell are very flawed.

Thank you so much for this video! I've been waiting for this explanation for a looooooong time.

Jordan would have more than six if all he had to do was win one playoff series to make it to finals.

B.Russell won in the circumstances he played in and that should be respected. Mind you, he was a defensive stopper imagine all the DPOY trophies he’d won playing in the 80s the award was given after 1982-83 season. Adjust his number with 30 teams he’d have 7rings, 6MVP, 6FMVP and 6DPOY trophies. He was also a track star, the man was a hell of an athlete.

Because some people tend to disrespect Wilt and Russell's era as they're ignorant.

Haven’t watched the video yet so this may have been mentioned->Russell only had to win around 24 playoff series for his 11 rings whereas MJ had to win 24 playoff series for his 6 rings.

Bill Russell was a player who could win championships with his all time great defense, so his scoring numbers aren't as important to me as other players. But what do y'all make of the fact that there were so many hall of famers in quite a few of those teams? I'm no expert, just asking.

11 will always be better than 6 There's no narrative that will change that Bill has also 5 Mvps he's an all time great MJs legacy is good enough to be appreciated without downplaying others players success

Greatest Of All Time means a player who could dominate in any era on any team for simplicity lets just say championship calibre teams, not teams full of cocaine cowboys like Jordans rookie year put Jordan on Celtics championship teams they win. it doesnt matter if they miss Russells rebounding or defense, nobody in entire era of 60s can stop or contain Jordan put Russell on any of Jordans championship teams and they dont win, let alone win 72 games. they might outrebound and outclass every other 90s team in defense but whos gonna score? Pippen? a career 16 ppg shooter who cant hit a clutch shot to save his life? yeah great job there. pair him with a career 44% Russell who only average 14 ppg career and that Bulls team will lack any firepower basketball is a team sport and you cant really assign one player for entire teams success, but you can tell which player brings more to the table on any team they land in and thats why Jordan is GOAT

I don't know that I would ever say that Jordan's 6 Championships is better than Russell's 11, there's too much knocking 1 player to promote another and that statement borders on that! I will say that no athlete in any sport was as entertaining as watching Michael Jordan play! That's backed up by game 6 of the 98' Finals still having the record for TV viewership! MJ's run in Chicago was ending and everyone wanted 1 more glimpse! The last 45 seconds epitomized His career! Steal the ball on defense, dribble the length of floor, wait for the traffic to clear drive, pull up, hit the jump shot with the whole world knowing what's coming and the opponent completely helpless to stop it! He was equally dominant in every facet of the game! In my opinion, that's why He's the Greatest Ever!

Back in the 1950s and 1960s, players played against HOFers every night. The more teams there are, the lesser competition there is. Think of how many players you would have to remove from the league today if you removed 20 teams.

2 3peats for MJ Bulls and they played few playoffs games and there was only 8 or 10 teams in the whole NBA. Not much competition in the 1959 etc. MJ played better competition and there was 27 teams back then and 60 or more games to get to the playoffs and win 4 out of 7 playoff games, compared to winning two out of 3 playoff games.

The 60s celtics were number 1 defensive every year with russell so give the guy some credit , he also won 2 ncaa rings . I never heard heinsohn, havlicek , cousy ,sam jones say jordan was better

Solid point! Keep this up will you? 🤘

Very good observation

Your only point here is individual scoring and Mvp awards which are opinions. Russell Westbrook and Magic Johnson are players whose assistant stats are far more important than points. Nikola Jokic has a lot of good games with low scoring. Both Sabonis played the same way. They invented fast break with Bill and the Guy is best defender ever. Imagine olympic level high jumper with 6'11 frame in todays game. Sorry guys Bill still got the case. It's all about winning... they say.. bye

good point MJ the G.O.A.T

For me, and don't come at me with the pitch forks, the goat debate comes down to MJ, Wilt and Kareem. All three were atg on both ends of the floor ie on offense and defense.

When Bill Russell played, the best basketball players in the world were not in the NBA they were Purposely being overlooked. Let's just keep that real. And I believe there were only 8 teams in the league at that time if I'm not mistaken. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I told someone the other day Russell was the best scorer in his team for two of those rings and was not even a top 3 scorer on the team for half of them. Saying he’s a great for those 11 is like saying Rodman is a great for his five.

The idea, that because the number of active players of basketball in the 1950s or 1960s was less, the pool to pick from was less seems irrelevant... In 1956, America sent a team of non-professional basketball players to the Olympics, and out of that group (who incidentally won the gold ), only two players turned professional and entered the nba, K C. Jones and Bill Russell... So out of a team of 12, two became household names and nba champions...(one other player played one season in the nba ) So out of a team that beat the world's top basketball teams, only two players went on to be remarkable players in the nba... Seems like the nba had a system in place to get the best players in America... The nba, who arguably had the most dominant amateur players in the world at the time to choose from... Both K. C. Jones and Bill Russell prove the case that they had enough world class talent to pick from within the amateur basketball leagues to fill the nba with very skilful players and future players afterwards prove it... Elgin Baylor...Wilt Chamberlain... Jerry West... Kareem Abdul-Jabbar... Nate Thurmond...

Hence the term “context”…

Because Bill Russell played in a league with 8 teams and the first was a bye. Also the talent was trash and the lottery system was suspect.

Auerbach had all the stroke got all best players ran a monopoly over the league. Russell was a shotty offensive player who was great on defence but that’s all Celtics needed.

5:14 raw odds does not account for talent. The fact that the Celtics had a 12.5% chance to win from 1957 - 61 yet won 5 out of 6 titles undermines your point. The Bulls having a 3.3% chance to win only makes since if ALL teams had comparable players. Fact is, Jordan was the BEST player and that gave the Bulls a huge advantage over the competition. Thus they were able to win 6 championships during an 8 year period. On the other hand, if you were talking about rolling dice and had 8 people each with a set of dice and then trying to determine a winner amongst them, then that 12.5% chance of winning would be a factor. Or maybe, there is an advantage a potential dice roller has in terms of hand size? If having large hands gives a dice roller an advantage then that 12.5% chance of winning would not be a good metric. Now, I don't know if Hans size is a factor in rolling dice. My point is that talent MATTERS. Also, from 1956 (Russell's first season) to 1969 (Russell's last season) The Celtics won 11 out 13 titles with Russell coaching the last title winning team in his last year. Before Russell the Celtics won ZERO titles. After Russell retired in 1969 it was not until 1974 for the Celtics to win another title.

Great vid overall, although you only touched on 2 of the top 4 reasons why Russell's 11 titles are overrated, being that there were significantly fewer teams in league and playoff rounds back then. Imho, the other 2 main reasons are that the Celtics had way more than the average share of all-stars and eventual Hall of Famers on their team, and the average height was shorter back then, so it was much easier and more effective for someone of Russell's stature to dominate.

1959 Finals MVP is Bill Russell... Come on. Just look at what Lakers' coach said about that series: "We don't fear the Celtics without Bill Russell. Take him out and we can beat them ... He's the guy who whipped us psychologically". If you ask me, Russell was the Finals MVP in 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1965 and 1966. 1957 is Tom Heinsohn 1958 is Bob Pettit 1964 is Sam Jones 1967 is Wilt Chamberlain 1968 is John Havlicek

Nobody has made more of an impact like Larry bird did in the 13 years he played and Larry Bird is the GOAT. Not MJ. And the following is true about Larry Bird. Larry birds timeframe played 13 seasons in the NBA and what is impressive Larry missed nearly an entire season for bone spurs in his heels and played just 105 games in his last two campaigns due to his bad back. Those last two NBA seasons, 1990-91 and 91-92, were painful to watch, as Bird had to lie on the floor at times to ease the tension on his aching back. Years later, doctors explained the lengths they had to go to just to get Larry Legend on the court, and after hearing that, you won’t believe just how painful the whole situation was for him. Larry Bird infamously hurt his back doing something perfectly on-brand for the humble Celtics superstar, building a driveway for his mother by himself in 1985. And while the back injury affected him for the last seven seasons of his career, it truly became a problem starting in 1988. By the 1990s, Bird “had lost the structural stability of his spine,” according to his orthopedic therapist, Dan Dyrek. “It would slip into abnormal positions to try and lock itself to get an artificial stability.” The pain for the Celtics star was intense. Dyrek compares his spinal issues to “getting your finger stuck in a door, and somebody’s still pushing on the door.” Despite the pain, Bird did whatever he could to play, even while wondering whether he was doing long-term damage that would affect his quality of life in retirement. But he did it because, as he learned from his father years before, “If you get paid to go to work, you gotta go to work.” So, during the last two years of Bird’s career, Dyrek and his counterparts would go to extreme measures to get Bird on the court. “What we had to do was unlock his spine, realign it, [and] do techniques that would hold that for four hours, six hours, that type of thing, and then he’d go play basketball,” Dyrek explained. And while Larry Bird now admits he “probably should have retired in ’88, ’89,” he says the competition and hopes of one more NBA Finals showdown with Magic Johnson kept him going. www.sportscasting.com/larry-bird-doctors-unlock-spine-before-games-end-career/ and Larry Bird injured his shooting hand in a bar fight during the 1985 Eastern Conference Finals www.sportscasting.com/larry-bird-involvement-bar-fight-cost-celtics-1985-nba-finals/ which shows how much heart, love and dedication Larry had for the game. And There will never ever be a player like Larry Bird again. What an insult to Larry bird, His legacy, His accomplishments and the pain he endured and still did all that he did. How a person handles Adversity and other intangibles are part of what makes greatness. And watch these two video's ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-NegTAHIWF70.html ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-kXNLtXUTRYY.html ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-IepUIF38GU8.html ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-kXNLtXUTRYY.html ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-DvkaQR8SHls.html

Russel played in a 8-9 tesm league. And the league had two dominant teams I like Bill Russel but this is the end of debate

Jordan was individually spectacularly skilled offensively ,defensively ,and strong minded enoùgh not to wilt carrying the bulls , Bill russel was an equally strong minded defensive genius ,its his offense that can't hold a candle to micheals skill . Equally ,as good defensively as a guard as micheal was ,he wasnt anywhere near Bills level defensively !" It comes down to micheal being able to carry a team on his back ,and Bill being the ultimate team player !"

Well argument.

You have factor in Russell defense. He terrorized the league with his shotblocking.

Did you just give Pettit an FMVP for 57?? 😂😂😂😂

I think Jordan is the goat but Bill Russell’s best asset was his defense and that was not factored here. Bill russell was easily the best player on his Celtics team and should’ve been the mvp virtually ever year they won.

Jordan got swept twice by a Celtics team with 3-4 Black players, and he had an all Black team…

Phil Jackson said he’d take Bill Russell over MJ

It’s a team sport so attributing entire team success to one player even when that player contributes the most to the team as it’s best player is the first mistake people make. But let’s ignore that. Saying you have a 12% chance in winning vs a 3% chance in winning cuz of 8-14 teams and less rounds in postseaon cuz of wear and tear on your body ignores context that Russell was against more stacked hof teams which is further proof of a superior league vs a diluted league, the fact that he played in far faster pace against the most numerous record setting track and field nba athletes of any other era which is far harder to continue to keep up with than a much slower paced era with luxuries of rest and rules with more teams and easier matchups in the postseaon despite more rounds etc… makes it foolish to say Russell’s chips can’t be on the same level or greater than MJs. MJ faced a team multiple times in the postseason during his championship runs that had 0 hall of famers while MJs bulls had 2-4 on different occasions. Russell never had anything remotely close to that luxury even with the luxury he had of always having the most HoFS on his team (look up how hard it is to win against multiple hall of famers vs how hard it is to win against multiple all stars) No matter what the surface % of winning numbers say based on number of teams alone, if u remove all players in the league today and cut the teams in half then tell all players u removed to fight for the positions that’s available which is half the league, you’ll have a far more difficult time making that league and a far more difficult time winning in a league stacked with a high condensed volume of the best of the best players making any dominance you end up showing that much more impressive Instead of just posting Russell’s and his opponents scoring and rebounding numbers, post their Playmaking and defense as welll and do enough research to be able to post anything defensively cuz believe me it’s out there If we say Russells chips are less impressive than Jordan’s then we have to keep the same energy and say other peoples chips are more impressive than Jordan’s like wilt Chamberlain whom has less of a gap of chips between him and MJ than Russell has over MJ Wilt faced the same ratio of HOFs jordan never won against and won on 3 different occasions against those odds against a league that changed its rules and officiating specifically against him to slow him down, most hof comp at his position and in general in postseaon, impacts winning more than man with the most chips era in that same era of the hardest rules to play the game and fastest pace to keep up with, while putting up the greatest overall postseaon and finals performances of all time by far in all aspects of offense, defense, and rebounding combined. Wilt was also able to beat the 2 best versions of teams whom won the most chips out of the entire 70s decade that saw the most polarity of champions any other era saw in the Knicks and the Celtics So if jordan 6 > 11 then Wilt 2 > 6 > 11 etc… Also in reality, we are downplaying the significance and abilities of Russell. He’s a walking 20 rebound double double machine whom can give you 30 points 40 rebounds 5 blocks and 5 steals any given day even in a game 7 to win the championship. That’s not someone who’s a liability on offense just cuz their career avg is 15 ppg nor is it someone who is incapable of carrying lesser teams with the ability to put up such large near triple double to quadruple numbers when you look at his defense and offensive contribution combined. The abilities he brings to any given team in history is the second best rebounder ever, best overall defender ever and able to guard all 5 positions, second best shot blocker ever, able to play multiple positions on offense, 3rd best Playmaking center ever, best player coach ever, able to run the floor on fast breaks and leap over defenders, drop 30 plus with drives and great finishing at the rim with world class athletic ability able to slay giants with soft touch straight up layups and even poster dunks and able to leap over defenders in a single bound, hit hooks every which way straight up or reverse pivot after ball fakes, etc… Man’s won 11 rings while being the best player on his team every season even at his very final last year being slightly better overall than hondo in 69 where the black population was the vast majority and the nba was accepting only the best of the best from college, overseas, ABA, and pro streetball tournaments where players had to work far harder to make a smaller league with lesser spots and keep their position in the league showing that a prime Russell would contribute the same way Russell did in his prime if not more if he were playing in later decade eras from the 80s-now with even lesser rebounders and defenders at his position to contend with, far easier rules that allow him to backdown punish and wrist carrying and take extra steps, a smaller basketball that fits easier inside a sturdier rim, load management and slower pace conserving massive amounts of energy, more teams allowing much more lesser players into the league making teams much less stacked than in Russell’s time whom don’t have to work as hard to be all time greats and make the league and keep their position and yet only being pulled form overseas college and minor leagues, no one with near the IQ he has on both ends of the floor from a player and coach perspective combined, the fact that the Celtics missed the playoffs 3 years in a row despite still having their second best player John Havkickek while the bulls made it out the first round despite still having pippen when Mike left etc… So these are all things to think about next time we claim Russell’s 11 chips are inferior to MJs 6 This is why if you aren’t using rings to separate role players from goat tier players then it makes no sense to switch up the energy of how you separate goat tier players from each other and use rings rather than use the same fundamental criteria of separation you did for role players and goats. No matter how you try to pick and choose when to use rings, you’ll run into inconsistencies and contradictions

Excellent video and explanation. I love Russell, but honestly, his era was more similar to amateur or college, when basketball as a gama was developing. Different from the 80s and 90s that were full of superstars and all time greats, well rounded greats from the moment the step into the league. And as hard as it is to admit for millennials 😂 That was the best era of basketball.

This is exactly why The GOAT debate is dumb. You cannot compare era's.

Jordan played in the expansion era and never beat a team with 3 top 75 players

In 2024 we have yet to see a player who dominated the position they played as Michael Jordan. We have seen dominant big men like shaq and Hakeem after Russell. So….

What about the ABA, NBA merger? You got to factor in that too.

Because there was not a lot of teams back then and the teams that won got the best players 😊

For sure an ambassador but played in a weaker softer era.

Your rings put you in the goat debate if you were the bus driver… Bill Russell was ABSOLUTELY the bus driver in ALL those championships. He was the Alpha of his generation. Before him, it was Mikan… after Russell, it was Kareem. At the ends of Kareems era Magic and Bird were Co Alphas Magic being 1a Bird 1B… after them, it was Jordan. Kobe and Duncan were co alphas after Jordan. After Kobe and Duncan, it has been Steph. Don’t come in here with LeFraud… he didn’t drive any bus. He drove the buskin Cleveland but transferred to Wades bus to get delivered 2 rings then transferred to kyries bus and got delivered one, then he transferred to Kyle kuzmas bus and hired playoff rondo to drive the bus and street clothes to navigate while he got chauffeured to a bubble chip.

While all the points you bring up about the competition and the amount of teams is true, I still think a Championship is a Championship. I don't think its right to discredit Russell and say his titles are less than Jordans.

You lost me at the 1:25 mark. If you say finals MVP's are what truly decide these things, then acknowledge that MVP wasn't a thing till 12 years into his career, and then decide for yourself why Russell wouldn't get an MVP based on what amounts to trivia then I can't take this seriously. There's one finals MVP that blows up your whole schtick...... Iguodala....... Explain Iguodalas MVP stats compared to 'Brons stats that series. Finals MVP doesn't work the way you think it does. It's about who had the biggest impact on the series, not just the biggest stat line. The one finals that the Celtics lost was due to Russell going down with a sprained ankle. He was healthy for the rest and won the rest. That alone should demonstrate his value to the finals. Russell continued to win even after Cousy retired. Could Jordan even make it to the finals without Pippen? Russell won as a player/coach..... let that sink in....... He COACHED the team AND played the games. Nobody has been more responsible for a banner being hung before or since. Stats are good for when you are sitting in the bar with your key pad answering trivia questions with your friends. That's it.

You can only maximize your window. 11 with and 8 in a row streak is insanely maximized no matter the circumstances. Points and MVP aren't all there is to a player. Bill was a defensive superstar. MVP isn't even given to the best player a lot of times, as evidenced from Embiid winning it over Jokic or Lebron getting an IST MVP over Davis. The MVP in any form is an incredibly arbitrary award. The best argument for Jordan over Russell is that he was the best scorer while also being elite defensively and maximizing his window. But it should be noted that Russell also had elite rebounding and was not by any means one dimensional just because he wasn't really a scorer.😂

All Bill Russells rings only had between 8 and 10 teams compared to Jordans 82 teams

Big shot isn't a ez to replace role player. Thts the only thing I disagree on

So I guess LeBron fans can't uesd bill russell argument anymore. 😂😂😂😂

Russell has 5 titles without Cousy, 5 without Havlicek, 2 without Auerbach as coach. How many rings does Jordan have without Pippen and Phil? Better yet how many playoff wins does Jordan have without Pippen?

Like chamber say 11 feet rim he was dunk in game could Michael Jordan dunk 11 feet in game if they did not change the rule of NBA go to remember that back then was strick and harder to play on 11 feet hoop they made rules easy for basketball player now

In 70s stander hoop were hight then 10 feet chambers was probably the only one that dunk then due the rules change since 70s that why you should understand just as technology has changed look at the drive rules people who drive faster law are make people more fighting in road drive 100 80s now 120 that insane

So I immediately notice Phil Jackson nor Steve Kerr was on the list. Do their titles not count?

I don't know if I would agree with this. 11 is more impressive then 6. But there is more to being the GOAT then just rings. MJs career PPG and record and the sheer amount of his individual awards and records help to bridge the gap. Bill Russel was never the best player in the league unlike MJ was.

Take the league in 1990. Remove half of the players of color (Magic is there but Isiah is not. MJ is there but Drexler is not...), take all the non-color players (Bird, McHale, Mullin, Stockton...) and reduce the number of teams from 30 to 9 Wouldn't each of those 9 teams have two or three all-star players? Wouldn't the competition be strong? Because in 8-9 team league every team has great roster. Because only the best of the best can even make it to the NBA. So it is actully harder to win a ring in 60s. Not to mention that you still have to play 80 games a season, which means 10 games against every one of those teams plus 5-7 more in the playoffs. So Russell has to play 10 games against Wilt and against Thurmond and against Bellamy and against Pettit and against Willis Reed... Plus playoffs. He also has to run 50 lenghts of the court more (because there was possetions back then) while playing 10 mpg more than modern players. And all of that without modern system of training, nutriotion, treatments of injuries, shoes...

I guess guy doesn’t consider defense valuable.

Wilt's 2 rings hold more value than Jordan's 6.

Your only criteria for being a Finals MVP seems to be scoring average. That is a very flawed perspective. The Celtics team did not need Russel to score; they had plenty of others to take care of that. San Jones. Tommy Heinsohn. Bob Cousy. John Havlicek. Bill Sharman. And others. Jordan's Bulls teams would not have even made it to the Finals as often as they did were it not for Jordan's scoring. No Russell wasn't much of an offensive threat. But, as I pointed out, the Celtics didn't need him to be. Even here, though, if you put his mid-40s% FG shooting into the context of the times, it really wasn't bad. Players were leading the league in FG percentage in the 45%-47% range- until Wilt Chamberlain came along anyway. The Celtics weren't a particularly good defensive team until they drafted Russell. His defense essentially transformed the entire league. I'm sorry, but nothing Jordan did impacted the league- I'm referring to the games themselves as opposed to the fans- has anywhere near the impact Russell's defense did. I don't necessarily buy the "inferior competition" argument either. During a significant part of Russell's career, the NBA had no more then 10 teams. In modern terms, that would mean the team that picked last would be getting a Lottery Pick. Jordan's Bulls, among other teams of his era, padded their win-loss records by feasting on teams with players who, 10 years earlier might be playing overseas at best.

I guess that Russell had to deal with racism, buses, bad shoes, bad medicine, bad hotels and bad pay. Compared with jordan having tailored shoes, private jets, millions of dollars, being universally loved despite being an asshole. Non of those advantages matter apparently. A couple of the maps you took off him went to the loser, witch never happens. Also. Russell's game is completely about elevating others, never about stat's. MJs game is all about elevating himself. Finally, Russell one both national titles in college, Olympic gold and almost every title in the pros. He won with the most talent. And with lesser talent. All he did was win. Jordan never won a title without the most talented team in the league.

6 nba finals mvps > 0 Mj the goat

96 nbs was get out wack all people who were fighting all time at lest bill never puch his team mate Michael puch few of his own team mate Michael should be band from NBA after punch kurry and a play you probably don't know of in 80s if Michael Jordan did that he would be band from NBA got to remember that rule change in 95 players started lots of fighting 95 to now NBA all fighting not as good as 80s NBA people who play right I going with snoop the best is magic LA Johnson play game right when NBA rules were good now it all going to shit snoop right magic the gote

There were like 7 teams in the league back then, lol

Stop hating Bill Russell is the Goat!!!

THE SAME REASON THE HEISMAN ALWAYS GOES TO AN OFFENSIVE PLAYER ,RUSSEL CELTICS WOULD WIN ATLEASE 50% AGAINST MIKE FACTS,WHY DO PEOLPLE LIKE MIKE MORE 'THE SHOES ,AND 4 OR 5 DUNKS😮 PERIOD...BATMANZ 1GOD

While I agree with your premise (that MJ's titles are far more valuable/difficult than Russell's), I think you are oversimplifying the MVP portion of the argument by just looking at rudimentary stats. Russell was a transformative defensive player - that can't be quantified with the figures you were looking at. Now I don't mean that made him the 11x Finals MVP, but I think he deserved more than what you gave him. The real crux of the argument is 100% the level of competition/number of teams. They didn't even have a playoff gauntlet to go through back the - there were barely any teams and while Russell could only play in the league/against the competition available to him, that just isn't close to the challenge that modern NBA offered.

So let me get this straight 6 is more than 4 and that makes jordan better than lebron, 11 is more than 6 but jordan is still better than russell because? If u mention competition or the fact that there were only 8 teams, the same argument can be used against jordan. He didn’t play a single team better than the warriors or spurs.

So, Bill is not all that he claims to be!!! Horry was never an NBA champion, I knew that!

Bc bill Russell wasn’t the best player on his team and no one says 6 championships is the reason Jordan is the best It’s everything else Move on

Well according to your logic then Lebron 4 should trump MJ 6 ,,,,,,, right?¿

Now bill and lebron both played in a weak era

BILL RUSSELL THE GREATEST PLAYER EVER. 11 RINGS IN 13 YEARS WITH 5 MVPS. FMVP DIDNT EXIST IN THE 60S. DPOY DIDNT EXIST IN THE 60S. BLOCKS AND STEALS WASNT RECORD. BILL RUSSEL WON AS A COACH TWICE. WON WITHOUT BOB COUSY. CELTICS WERE LOSERS BEFORE BILL RUSSEL GOT THEIR. ONLY WON 34 GAMES WHEN HE RETIRED. BILL RUSSEL PLAYED WILT CHAMBERLIN WHICH IS A BETTER PLAYER THAN ANYBODY JORDAN FACE. 11 BETTER THAN 6.

No, they don't

BS 11 championships tops 6 any day of the week. Bill Russell played against the great Wilt Chamberlain, Nate Thurmond, and Willis Reed, etc. Bird, Magic, and Isaiah Thomas battled against each other and won championships against each other and Jordan's Bulls.They got old and beaten down. MJ beat inferior competition when he won his 3 championships. Got busted for betting on game and went to play baseball for the Chicago White Sox for a short period of time til things blew over. Jordan beat weak teams in the west and east. He beat an old Lakers team. Phoenix was sorry and so was Utah. I'm from Chicago born and raised followed the Bulls and I know my sh__ !

Bill played in a weak era.

Michel Jordan was copy Rodman in 96 he was too mean to Steve kurry..and about player he left 96 that guy get away from Michael Jordan Steve was go to sue michal but did not like pippen bulls 96 97 98 Mj lost his soul

You clearly know nothing about Bill Russell.

If Jordan had 3 rings the media would still have him as the goat. Remember they started calling him the goat after his 1st retirement. Everything is rigged for Jordan

I love Jordan, my favorite player of any sport, i saw him play his entire career, also 3 times live. But that doesnt take from the fact that Bill Russell won 11 rings, you cant really compare eras like that specially that far away one from the other (although it is fun to watch this content) it dont matter if there were only 4 teams playing back then because back then that was the BEST basketball league in the world, it was the best contest that the human race had for basketball back then, i hear this way of thinking all the time from Barcelona fan trying to down play Real Madrid's first 5 European throphies. The league sucked back then, fewer teams, it was in black and white (lol fr this is a criticism they bring up), etc. It was the best European competition in the 50s, the best we as a human race could come up with. So yeah Jordan has 6, Bill has 11 and thats that.

Nice try. The most ridiculous analysis I’ve ever heard to discredit the older generation. How about what Russel had to endure as a black man in what was considered a white sport in the 50’s and 60’s? Jordan didn’t have to go through that. What kinda shoes did Russel wear compared to Jordan? How was the sports medicine field during the 60’s compared to the 90’s? Technology and games analysis? Travel arrangements? Nutrition? Russel is a legend. He’s not as skillful as Jordan. Nobody is making that argument, but he dominated his era. And 11 is more impressive than 6.

If they handed all awards and accolades Bill would have 7+ fmvp 5 mvp 11 rings 5+ dpoty

There were 6 expansion teams in the 90s... 8 teams means less scrubs and more focused talent

Man ignored 2/3 defensive stats to make his argument against the best defender in nba history lmao

Fmvp is named after him instead of Jordan so I think the consensus is he's have won more fmvps than Jordan. I know its impossible for Jordan fans to understand greatness if it doesnt come in the form of 30ppg especially since they didn't show Bill's blks or stls which were surely in the double figures. This whole video is a clown show.

Funny. Jordan fans cry when I say that Jordan's 6 are not more meaningful than Bron's 4. Crazy, huh?