Yeah, also Henry Sagerman, whose name was on that paper. (Definitely check out his RU-vid if you love math stuff). I suggested all these guys when they first mentioned looking at other shapes for dice. It would have been an amazing collaboration for Diceapaloosa.
FINE!!! Stop bullying me with Jason being charming as hell as he completely nerds out about dice shapes... I backed Diceapoolza, I want those gyroid's.
Bruh you must, MUST, sell the Gyroids on the website. Mark um up by $5 or something, but you MUST keep selling them. You can't let these mathematical marvels vanish into the ether! Please, I beg of you!!!!!
Thank you for making this! I've been waiting for more info on Gyroids, and you guys did not disappoint. I finished this video and went straight to the Kickstarter to back!
*waves at Jason from the rabbit hole* I dove down here a few decades ago and wondered why nobody came out with these dice back in the 80s. Especially when I saw my first 30-sider (actually numbered 01-30) that we used to randomize what first level Mage spells a Magic User could access.
As a recently graduated college student in geology, coccolithophores are ancient, historic, and microscopic algae found on the seafloor. Felt like this is a review relearning dodecahedron and hexahedrons all over again. As a geologist, I approve, Im in the campaign and sold. These gyroids will be the star of my campaigns
Something to keep in mind is that a lot of people out there have trouble with color. You can always ink in some different colors yourself, tho. That's the easiest part of making dice.
I just managed to get enough money for floor seats thanks to a gallery downtown selling one of my pieces! Glad to finally be a part of something Wyrmwood related. Now I just need to figure out which resin set to get. I’m considering both Rainbow Road and Sea Glass, but they all look good…
The G4 is useful, but I'd get all the rest confused for each other. I don't want to have to inspect my dice to figure out which one is which, I'm just grabbing for a few to roll.
14:28 So the idea about this is cool and it is a clever way to do this in order to make the most fair die for rolling *averages*. This might not be the most fair numbering though. I'm thinking of the particular ways casino dice are made for example, they optimize not for rolling the average the most, but for rolling every side equally often (by specifically making the pips deeper or shallower so the weight distribution stays the same). What I mean by this is in your variant, you can end up with a die that heavily favours a certain cluster of numbers and almost never rolls the opposite side. This die would be "fair" in a sense that it will roll the average (10,5 for a D20) very well, but it is not fair in a sense through which some numbers are less favoured as they're surrounded by single digits, making that side of the die heavier (less engraving = less material gone). This basically comes down to what your definition of a "fair die" is. In your case it's "a fair die rolls average", while I think that the more conventional definition is "a fair die rolls every face the same amount of times". This is te whole "regular D20" vs. "Spindown D20" debate basically
Maybe you missed the whole "same sum of numbers surrounding any given side/vertex" part. But that's the idea, to never have a number that is surrounded by single digits. Sure you're not getting into absolutely perfect weight distribution, but that would take a lot of time and investment to ensure.
@@kennyvanvliet7569 Please re-read what I wrote. And yes, that this doesn't make for a perfect weight distribution is exactly the issue I was talking about. This arrangement optimizes for maufacturing defects and to have the die roll on average. That is not the conventional definition of a "fair die" though as that optimizes for every face getting rolled an equal amount of times. Those are two different things
I am pretty sure Lou Zocchi started this drive toward perfect accurate dice back in the 80's with GameScience dice. Glad to see another company taking a crack at this in the modern era.
Lou Zocchi is crazy he tested a d5 to make in perfectly fare die and has a single die that can roll every die in rpg games. The guy has contributed multiple titles to gaming. They need to do an interview with him because he is the OG dice guy.
Yes, they don't have a direct backing level for it, but you can add them on in the backerkit after the campaign. That said, if you back a full set of dice, you're committing to getting a set of dice, you can't repurpose those funds to buy only g4 dice. For that reason, I backed the minimum amount and plan to buy a bunch of g4 in the backerkit later for extra funds.
WHY NOT MAKE THEM AVILBLE POST KICKSTARTER????? like, I get it, trying to build hype, but if this'll take of you'd literally have a monopoly and something that makes you completely uniqe (at least until other dice makers catch up) I understand not commiting to it as, yeah, you have no idea how it'll go and it might follow in the way of the high variance dice, but to straight up shut it down is closing the door on what can be a major opportunity imo
At least part of the reason is marketing... FOMO is a powerful Kickstarter booster, and they're still actively promoting the Kickstarter... if the Kickstarter is a huge success and they're seeing a big market for it, I wouldn't be surprised if we see gyroid dice continue longer term... or at least show up as part of future crowdfunding campaigns. As much as I hate to say it, having "exclusive dice designs" that only become available during crowdfunded campaigns is probably a good way to squeeze a little extra engagement out of the campaign... a year from now I still probably won't be in the market for an MGT, but if I wind up needing more G4 dice and the only way to get them is the next MGT campaign, I'd probably back at the cheap level to be able to get those dice. Plus, if they introduce different designs each time, they'll lure the dice goblins back repeatedly. I can talk myself out of buying a second set of dice in this campaign by choosing my favorite, but will I be able to do the same a year from now when they're offering something I might like MORE than the design I already have?
My biggest concern was being able to differentiate between each die and I'm still not perfectly sold on the point made that each side is different. The G4 and the G10/G100, and the G8 is similar to the G20. Not exactly, but seem to be similar enough to still warrant concern. Either way, I may still be convinced to get a set because the idea is still really cool!
Same. But I took a look at the campaign and some of the resin dice sets have intentional color differences between the different die sizes. I think I'm going to go with a gyroid Sea Glass - maybe the faces will be enough, but worst case I should be able to pick them out by color after a while.
@@smith186 Yeah, I was thinking of getting a gyroid set in Rainbow Road specifically so they are each a different color. I also love the idea of this set because it reminds me of old D&D kits that had multicolored dice. :)
Would be much more likely to buy these if one or more of the high faces have a different background color, or very strong textual highlighting. Since these are unfamiliar shapes, I'd like it to be easier to identify them if I'm actually going to use them. Otherwise I might just get a bunch of g4s and leave the rest.
I am interested, but in the kickstarter I saw no pricing in a full set of gyroid. Do I simply buy a pin I will never wear or use and simply hope I can afford a set of Gyroids after the kuckstarter has ended?
They list the prices for the Standard set vs Gyroid set on the campaign page (it's the same price for the full set of 7, but the g4 is a disproportionate cost if you want to buy it on it's own), basically, you back whatever material you want, and then you pick the format of it in the backerkit later.
The issue I see for gyroid dice (outside of the d4 cuz screw that bare foot killer) is that it will be a pain to realize which dice I am holding unless they are in a labeled area.
Interesting. I guess the nerdier and more useful measure, as far as rolling goes, is the angle of the vertices, rather than the number or size of the faces
All the high faces need to have the different color. Idc if its the logo, but it looks bad when only some or one of the high numbers are a different color
Do we want dice to roll a long distance? Because the closer a die is to a sphere the more it rolls but also the more carefully it needs to be made so there's no bias. A D4 on the other hand can be quite badly made and still work.
1. I’m buying them. So no worries there. 2. How many sets … unsure. Honest question, and I’m writing this about 10 min in, but what is the point of a G6 when a D12 already exists. Does the G12 help out something more than just doing 1-6 twice on a D12?
How does making the opposite face sum constant make the die fair? Seems to me if there's a bias toward the largest or smallest this maximises the harm.
@@VagabondTE - Apparently it is like what was on the screen. So the high face on the G100 is 90 and the low Is 00 - and the high on the G10 is 10 and the low is 1. This is so when doing normal rolls with the G10 it makes sense. And with percentage rolls you add it together (00+10 = 10 and 90 + 10 = 100) I don’t know what to think about it because it’s different from what I’m used to. But I guess it works and I’m not angry about it.
@@Jovi_97 Yes I understand Jason's method now. But the screen is still wrong. The screen says "High numbers: G10: 90 G100: 00". That's wrong no matter how you do it. Anyway, the conclusion that I've come to is that since they've changed the 0 to a 10, they should have also changed the double zero to a regular zero, or left it blank. That would reinforce their method.
@@VagabondTE - Oh yeah, I didn’t go back to check what they wrote on screen again, you’re right ^^ The double zero doesn’t bother me, but I do agree that it would make sense your way.
Would Jason be willing to publish his information on the gyroid dice? Like, the intended dihedral angles and sizeing? I understand wanting to make them limited but establishing a standard would be invaluable. We could even call it the Wyrmwood standard. I would even like having a name for that more fair D20 mapping. Countdown dice is the only mapping that really has a name so it would be nice to ask "does this dice have the Wyrmwood number mapping?" Or if that feels like taking credit then give it a name pointing to that paper.
Yeah, especially if they don't intend on selling these in the future, it would sure be nice if they made the concepts available to the larger community.
You talked about numbering the d20, which I assume was the die that people were LEAST curious about (though it was still interesting to hear). Should we assume that Jason followed the same rules for number distribution on the gyroid dice? (And that that theory was applicable to more than just the d20 shape?)
I'm sure he did if he could, but that's assuming it's possible to follow the rules for every shape, or that the analysis holds for other shapes. It may possibly require another math paper for each shape :/
@@d_dave7200 I guess that's my point, I don't think people asking about numbering were asking about the D20, they were probably asking about these brand new dice shapes that Wyrmwood is introducing.
The gyroids are cool, especially the G4, but I almost always shake my dice in a cup and then roll them out onto a tray, so the rolling distances of different geometries isn't a factor for me.
I initially backed this project on Kickstarter. Then cancelled my pledge. Why? Because the gyroid G10 dice they are proposing is numbered not with 0 to 9 digits (like standard non-gyroid D10 dice) but with 1 to 10 numbers. Which is kind of annoying when you try pairing a gyroid G100 dice with a gyroid G10 dice to generate a percentage because... according to the creators you then have to ADD the results of the two dice. Basically you have to learn and remember how to use this pair of dice because it's not working as we are all used to with a pair of one standard non-gyroid D100 and one standard non-gyroid D10 (that you're not adding as one is giving you the tens and the other the units). Examples with a G100 + G10 pair: 00 (on the G100) + 10 (on the G10) = 10... 00 + 6 = 6... 10 + 1 = 11... 90 + 10 = 100... etc. If it's something you can live with then by all means go ahead and get those. In terms of shapes (but IMHO not numbering for G10 dice) they are a great idea. And I have others dice I got from previous Wyrmwood KS campaigns and I'm really happy with the quality.
Too damn difficult to find the dice you actually need with the gyroids. Having some d4's might be cool .. but the others will just cause you to be looking for the right dice on your turn when initiative comes around.
I feel like after they changed locations there was either some sort of post processing done to their faces. their skin looks....almost fake. Or they had makeup done.
