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Why psychopaths aren't actually evil - The problem of free will 

Bite Size Psych
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Sources
Dr Fried experiment www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21...
Psychopath experiment
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4 мар 2015

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Комментарии : 1,2 тыс.   
@enderallygolem
@enderallygolem 8 лет назад
ITS NOT MY FAULT I DO NOT WANT TO DO HOMEWORK
@selfinexile
@selfinexile 8 лет назад
now you're getting it
@En_theo
@En_theo 7 лет назад
And it's not your teacher's fault if he gives you bad grades. See what I mean ?
@doppelgunner
@doppelgunner 7 лет назад
Genius
@thebakeddonut2038
@thebakeddonut2038 6 лет назад
The Ender Golem lmfao
@fauxmanchu8094
@fauxmanchu8094 6 лет назад
The Ender Golem 😜😜😜😜😜
@aletoledo1
@aletoledo1 9 лет назад
Using this logic, I don't need to "practice empathy and patience" as was suggested at the end. If I was going to practice empathy, that choice would have already been made by my supercomputer brain before I even had a chance to think of it. Therefore since I'm not practicing empathy, it's not my fault.
@chastitywhiterose
@chastitywhiterose 8 лет назад
+aletoledo1 True. It's not your fault. However, new information changes us and could make us more empathetic and patient. That's what it did to me.
@hornypervert3781
@hornypervert3781 6 лет назад
aletoledo1 I believe we should have a fascist regime and use planes to kill criminals.
@aletoledo1
@aletoledo1 3 года назад
@Moon Dreamer Programming being the key word. These "benign" pychopaths are really just NPCs, lacking free will.
@constipatedbowels3473
@constipatedbowels3473 2 года назад
@@hornypervert3781 you are really wise,Horny Pervert!!!....
@offzard
@offzard 2 года назад
You nailed it
@GenerationX1984
@GenerationX1984 7 лет назад
Doesn't matter if they're evil or not. They're still more *capable* of evil than the rest of us and we need to keep an eye on them and make sure to keep them in line.
@akirahimurakinakiyama7395
@akirahimurakinakiyama7395 3 года назад
To be honest if you can’t feel remorse how can you be good?......that’s what I’m wondering
@GenerationX1984
@GenerationX1984 3 года назад
@@akirahimurakinakiyama7395 That's why the corporate and political world is much a mess. Few of our leaders feel empathy or remorse. As bad as our politicians are, corporate CEOs are even worse. Most CEOs would pay 2 cents an hour to the lowest wage workers if they could get away with it. Just look at how Jeff Bezos treats the lowest wage employees of Amazon.
@GenerationX1984
@GenerationX1984 3 года назад
@@akirahimurakinakiyama7395 That's why I don't understand how any working class person can be anti-union. I feel like telling them, 'You realize the big bosses aren't your friends, right? Without unions you'd be even poorer than you are now. You'd probably be eating out of a dumpster with homeless people.'
@akirahimurakinakiyama7395
@akirahimurakinakiyama7395 3 года назад
@@GenerationX1984 regardless how messed up the world can be I can just let it burn while I just die and fade from existence
@akirahimurakinakiyama7395
@akirahimurakinakiyama7395 3 года назад
Because there is not much I can do for it anyways
@valkyriagreyholme8135
@valkyriagreyholme8135 5 лет назад
It's often depressing, the subject regarding psychopathy and how it's seen. I've been diagnosed Psychopathy a couple years back, and that explained a lot from my childhood, my reactions and ways of thinking things differently. But most people would just see a potential monster, instead of a person who was given a bad hand at birth. I've learned to emulate a lot of things, to be able to function relatively normally, but then people who know me and know of my condition end up thinking I'm normal, and forgetting about the condition. Suddenly there is misinterpretation somewhere down the way, some "normal" rule that I couldnt understand, missed and misinterpreted, and they get angry. It's always painful, because it reminds me how different I am, makes one feel like a puzzle piece, but from a different puzzle. It can fit in somehow, but every once in a while, it's obvious it doesnt belong there. Some people nowadays are realizing that Psychopaths are not always monsters, not always criminals and constantly plotting future crimes. Yes, I have horrible thoughts from time to time, and random bouts of desires to do mayhem. The boredom episodes, which drive me insane, where nothing can sate my need to feel something. I stop it all, with pure willpower. What depresses me is to still see a lot of people, whom call Psychopaths monsters that should be locked away or executed. Too dangerous to live among them. I suffer knowing that I dont fit in, that should it be known too widely, that I'd be shunned, to know that not only do I have to deal with my inner desires, but with the rest of people whom would sooner throw me off a cliff to feel safe, instead of giving me a hand and helping me on a day where I need it the most.
@olnbgy4444
@olnbgy4444 4 года назад
Valkyria Greyholme aren’t psychopaths defined by having a lack in empathy ? You seem quite empathetic.
@valkyriagreyholme8135
@valkyriagreyholme8135 4 года назад
@@olnbgy4444 Psychopathy isnt an on/off thing, it's a scale. Regardless it depresses me how hard it is for ME to "fit in" . I know what's considered "acceptable" and not in society thanks to how my mother raised me, it mitigates somewhat.
@devlindefranc4803
@devlindefranc4803 2 года назад
i'm here for you if you ever feel alone or want to just chat
@jacobh7188
@jacobh7188 7 месяцев назад
​@@valkyriagreyholme8135 psycopaths can't feel depressed
@elizabethr.127
@elizabethr.127 8 лет назад
This would be a really cool idea to write a book about. Like there could be an evil scientist or some sort of antagonist that develops a machine to change peoples brain signals and then makes them do whatever he wants while still giving them the illusion that they are choosing their own decisions.
@herp_derpingson
@herp_derpingson 8 лет назад
Bioshock series.
@stevenlawson2431
@stevenlawson2431 7 лет назад
that is a good idea. Some could even argue that in a sense it is real with the societal elites constructing the social narrative and sheparding the masses to obey the systems that have been designed to plant their authority and enforce it as the publics state of "Just the way things are."
@MaxLohMusic
@MaxLohMusic 7 лет назад
I had the same idea and was considering making a video game about it for a while. The great mind-blow is that one can argue that such a form of mind-control can be completely humane because it's indistinguishable to the person just coming up with their own wants (like in Inception). Is it wrong to make a janitor love their job as much as they love sex? If so, why? Bioshock did touch on that plot line but I wish they'd have gone into a deeper philosophical discussion of it.
@camelkingofthemediteranean949
@camelkingofthemediteranean949 6 лет назад
Kyle orbis I would say it would be Satan. Satan is known for whispering things into the brains of people. Some are strong enough but some are not strong enough to fight Satan. It is said all humans were good at the start but Satan said that his life mission is to create as many awful and despiceable humans as possible and then drag them all down to hell with him. Satan invades everyones brains and some will be possesed and some can resist it. OIf course now speaking in a science way, genetics and environments indeed play a role but also the parenting. You could lvie in the worst war area plus have a strange genetics but your parents could make you better or they do a bad job but yeah i think if anyone was born in different places they would be just as messed up. Which is why i am happy that i am such a good person. People who can empathize and feel should actually feel happy and blessed for not ebing a psychopath. You cannot really choose to become a psychopath as a child. Most of those disiturbing people on earth have their seeds in childhood so the childhood is the main part. Once you reach 18, you have a choice but as a child nothing can be done. If you turn into a psychopath as a child you cannot do anything ebcause children follow no logic and are still in development and have no idea what psychological issue really is.
@LukeTreestandBlueCPanis
@LukeTreestandBlueCPanis 4 года назад
We can also think of God because everything is in his perfect plan... Evil people being born or created are still part of the plan and He would still be loved by many and think its fine.
@mrthugamer7603
@mrthugamer7603 5 лет назад
You can't judge people for thinking a certain way. But actions are something completely else. You can't control the way you feel. But you CAN control your actions.
@MrVolodus
@MrVolodus 7 лет назад
I don't care whose fault is aggression. Be it sickness, drugs, tumor ... all I care about is prevention from happening it again. If tumor removal will cure person from aggression, I don't see reason for him to stay in jail. If not, let him die in prison with his tumor, not as punishment for him but to keep us safe.
@cooperanderson6051
@cooperanderson6051 9 лет назад
Reductionism and psychology don't work so well. A computer recognising the pattern of an action potential before it's an impulse doesn't prove we have no free will. Only someone advocating for devolution would ignore the characteristics of triune brain evolution and the role of the neo-cortex in self realisation.
@BiteSizePsych
@BiteSizePsych 9 лет назад
But the argument still remains that our brain (including the neo-cortex) is made up of neurons which are governed by deterministic laws of physics/biochemistry. So the interaction between these neurons is out of our control. Besides, the main point of this video was to show that we have much less free will than we think and so we should be more forgiving of people who do bad things.
@cooperanderson6051
@cooperanderson6051 9 лет назад
Bite Size Psych The sum is greater than its parts, reductionism doesn't work in psychology. Free will is only compromised in regards to self preservation. Clarifying the main point is important because a binary view of free will means a binary view of accountability. No free will means no accountability for actions. I agree with being more empathetic and considering nurture/nature but self discipline is also a factor. Funny thing is buddhism figured this out thousands of years ago.
@anonkiddo
@anonkiddo 9 лет назад
Cooper Anderson The buddhism thing you said is so damn true. The more I study psychology and neuroscience, the more I go, "But people knew this thousands of years ago, why are we redoing this?"
@Snowpire
@Snowpire 9 лет назад
Cooper Anderson Hey, Cooper. I'm a little confused about what you mean. Why do you think a binary view of accountability is wrong? If you believe we have free will, and are accountable, what arguments do you have to support that?
@cooperanderson6051
@cooperanderson6051 9 лет назад
illest My belief is that free will exists within a spectrum, between nurture/nature/self determination. What argument do i have that reductionism can't explain psychology. First of all consciousness is an emergent property. If me and a glass of water are both 65% water is that good reason to consider myself a cup? Anyway, look at the role of the deterministic laws which underpin my electrochemical brain, they are nothing more than a platform for free will to manifest in a persistent form. The conditions of self preservation though are a form of suppressed free will, but that is also within a spectrum and is more benevolent than any machine like interpretation.
@TomsMucenieks
@TomsMucenieks 7 лет назад
This is pretty much I've been thinking.... *In the end in turns out we're just chemicals that reacts to different factors.* There seems to be no free will or consciousness.
@troubledteenhelp2354
@troubledteenhelp2354 4 года назад
That is what we say to the teens we kidnap
@DanielF892
@DanielF892 3 года назад
So if you didn’t freely think that how can you know what your saying is even true
@paddleed6176
@paddleed6176 3 года назад
So how are you writing here if you don't have a consciousness.
@Babylon2060
@Babylon2060 2 года назад
There's consciousness and we see it everyday in the world of art! No one is preprogrammed to imagine things. The imagination is the only free will I believe we have at this point.
@Babylon2060
@Babylon2060 2 года назад
@@troubledteenhelp2354 😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑. You can still fight your desires. That's how people quit drugs.
@ShadowHunter120
@ShadowHunter120 7 лет назад
I really wish prisons would be designed to be more like rehabilitation facilities not containment.
@DMTInfinity
@DMTInfinity 7 лет назад
I completely agree with you Shadow.
@boris9047
@boris9047 7 лет назад
Well, either that or more death sentences. The worst thing is to let the prisons be a school for criminals.
@boris9047
@boris9047 7 лет назад
***** A human being is not a sacred thing, at least not from an atheist point of view. We are animals like any other animal. If a human being decides to take a life, I feel that they're no longer entitled to live. I ask you this question, is it moral to let a murderer go free after spending some time in prison while his/her victims are six feet under ground?
@boris9047
@boris9047 7 лет назад
***** You don't seem to appreciate the concept of responsibility. A free society is contingent upon this concept. If you brake the laws, you have to answer to your crime. I agree preventive actions are important, but so are the punishments. I live in Sweden, here we have very lame laws and punishment. An offender can brake many laws and still soon be out on the streets again hurting people. Is that your version of a better society?
@boris9047
@boris9047 7 лет назад
***** As I wrote, Sweden also have that kind of strategy as the Netherlands have and I myself witness the reality of that weak system. I believe there should be a reward/punishment system according to the level of crime. Most criminals start with smaller crimes, and when they know the punisment is low they are not afraid of trying on bigger crimes to get what they want. A human being is not good as a default, we are selfish and will do anything to survive and thrive if not forced to change are moral values. If there is no correction in moral values a human is more like an animal. Please spare me the hippie mantra of everyone being good hearted deep down inside. I do not believe that is the truth.
@n.c.6211
@n.c.6211 4 года назад
"Nothing is never anyone's fault" Crazy Ex Girlfriend
@Darvit_Nu
@Darvit_Nu 3 года назад
I agree 99%... I still believe we as individuals do have final say in acting or not acting upon an impulse. For some background: I had an unhappy, abusive childhood, raised by a cluster-B parent... most likely a narcissist or histrionic, I'm neurodivergent, have attention deficit disorder & dysgraphia... but I decided to be different and not become a carbon copy of my circumstances. It definitely wasn't easy but I overcame my circumstances. Everyday I made a choice to not be mean, manipulative, hypercritical, violent, drug abuse, etc. Counseling was really helpful to me to break the cycle. I do have kids that are both young adults now. Our relationships are good and I'm always there for them! To anyone struggling, please don't lose hope. Yes, there are personal challenges we're each born with or born into but that doesn't have to become you. You can change your story, one minute, one decision at a time. I believe in you... I did it and you can too!
@harsharora6113
@harsharora6113 2 года назад
Awesome How did you tackle adhd How were you able to focus with adhd? I can't focus on anything
@Optimus6128
@Optimus6128 8 лет назад
It makes me think even for simple instances in life. When you look back and remember some moments of your life, when you were angry at someone, when you made some stupid choices, when you stressed out for something that in retrospect seems ridiculous, and you are still doing it in the future even if you know. I remember some things and wonder why did I act like this or why did I stressed about that matter? But then I realize this, how we think we are in full control of our brains and thus who we are, yet that's not true. We might have a higher consciousness that can observe and controls the acts from the lower parts of our brain sometimes, but many times we are human. It makes me wonder how many more instances of actions and feelings do we think it's our own but it might not be so.
@amaurimedici8030
@amaurimedici8030 7 лет назад
+Sench Is pointing out the fact that whenever we act driven by emotions it's not our "rational", conscious will which makes us act in a certain way truly irrelevant to the subject of the video?
@sicktoaster
@sicktoaster 8 лет назад
I think this idea is in fact dangerous. The conclusion is also self-refuting. If Uday had no free will people who decided to punish him didn't have free will either. A few, OK more than a few points: 1. If I am my brain then if my brain causes something I cause something and so there's no problem for free will just from that alone. It only starts plausibly becoming a problem considering the brain can be influenced by inputs. BUT you left out an input, randomness. It could well be a very tiny factor, but Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle would mean that some of the physics going on in the brain at the molecular level, as with anything else would be random. There's also the issue of the study about predicting people's behavior before they act, but that leads to my next point, 2. What about exercising free will over a long-term period? If you plan ahead then what ever physical activity occurs in the conscious part of the brain has time to send outputs to the other parts of the brain, thus having influence (however imperfect) on the later outputs that arise from the subconscious part of the brain. Could the study just mean that we don't have free will when we have to make a snap decision? 3. Another thing, why are we assuming that the subject's personally reported experience of when they thought about whether or not they would push the button is accurate? Maybe the time we experience our thoughts as having occured in is actually later than when we actually had our thoughts? Maybe it is the timing of our thoughts that is the real illusion. We already know that when we see something we're not actually seeing it when it happens, light has to travel to our brain. What if thoughts work similarly? 4. And is it wise to define our "selves" according to only the conscious part of the mind? Say you have some aspiration, sometimes you may think of it consciously but if it's deeply engrained you'll be doing things towards it at times without consciously thinking about it. Is it less "you" because it's below the level of consciousness? Why can't we just define our "selves" as including what ever causal factors ultimately lead up to our outputs (though only counted as part of the self in the role of producing that output i.e. the big bang would count as part of you only in so far as it lead to everything you did, not in so far as it lead to things you don't do)? If we did this it would mean based on how we are defining self that everything results solely from a given person's self and therefore that person has free will. That may seem like a ridiculous way to define "self" but does anyone else have any other suggestions? Where do we draw the line between "self" and "not self"? If we don't equate anything physical to "self" then we may as well just say "self does not exist" which would turn "do we have free will?" into a non-question. Psychological studies seem to suggest the concept is really just an instrument we use to navigate the world and make decisions, so the question when considering matters of free will becomes a semantic one, and then therefore the question of free will itself boils down to semantics. 5. Utilitarians would disagree that we can only have accountability if we have free will. They would also disagree that we shouldn't call people "evil". If the concept of "evil" is helpful in yielding more positive outcomes then we should continue to use it in our descriptions of certain people and certain actions. You say you should blame it on neurology and not the "person". This goes back to the question of what the "self" or "person" is. The logical conclusion of your line of thinking that if it's the brain it's not the person is that the "person" doesn't even exist. Do you want to live in a world where people stop conceptualizing what it means to be a "person"? I don't. We have to draw a line and be able to say "this aspect of neurology constitutes the person". Not punishing or blaming people for what they do wrong based on your reasoning also means we can't thank scientists, inventors, and philanthropists for the good they do in the world. Whether free will is real or not we have to act like it is or the world we live in will become empty. 6. Promoting this new view may feel like the kind compassionate thing to do, but it could actually hurt people. I used to smoke cigarettes, and eat copious amounts of junk food. I didn't get fat but I reflected on it and realized it wasn't healthy. I dedicated myself to discipline and dedicating my life to self-improvement. "You only live once" so the saying goes, so I want to see how good a life I can live, not waste it on base pleasures. If I decided I was not to blame I might just go back to smoking cigarettes and eating junk food all the time. And a study shows I'm not some anomaly in that regard, people behaved worse if they didn't believe in free will. www.bbc.com/future/story/20130924-how-belief-in-free-will-shapes-us 7. And another thing is how can we objectively determine what constitutes mental illness and what constitutes mental health if mentally healthy people have just as much free will as mentally ill people? Doesn't it just turn into a matter of values and opinions? Forget mental health, how would we define good or bad behavior or right or wrong? Non-belief in free will could lead to anarchy. 8. Or it could lead to tyranny. If free will does not exist then is freedom also an illusion? Is it then still important to respect other people's freedom? If society decided that it didn't like, as just one out of many possible examples, introverts would it be justified in defining it as a disorder and then inventing brain-altering technologies and forcing treatment to reengineer people into extraverts? Could non-belief in free will lead in the long term to an outcome akin to the Borg from Star Trek where everyone has been forcibly reengineered into a hive mind because society has stopped valuing freedom? "Free will" whether it exists physically must remain a concept socially for the sake of protecting our freedom.
@jelenammm4569
@jelenammm4569 4 года назад
I can partly agree with you. I have a good friend who is a psychopath but I can see that he is trying to be good person. He completely understand his problem and he used to say "I don't have feel what's good or bad, but I have knowledge of that". I appreciate his efforts to somehow fights against his nature.
@DustinRodriguez1_0
@DustinRodriguez1_0 8 лет назад
While 'free will' can be problematic for some, I don't see it as an issue. Personally, sure, it's an issue. But on the social scale, I don't see why it should matter. The problem usually comes from how people conceive of the justice system. They view it as a way to 'punish' wrongdoers. There is a much better way to view it. View the justice system as a means of protecting the public by separating those who would harm them. This solves a tremendous amount of issues. If someone built a machine that simply spun around swinging blades at everyone, zipping from place to place, and turned it on at a playground, would anyone protest that we can't stop it because it doesn't have free will? Of course not. If your goal is to protect people, rather than punish wrongdoers, then you grab the machine and separate it from where people are. Simple. If human beings have free will or not, if they take actions which make it clear that they are either willing to harm, or incapable of not harming others, separate them from the public. There is no need to 'punish' them. No need to even make their accomodations odious. They simply need to be separated from the general public. Worrying about whether they are 'evil' or not can occupy the priests, but it shouldn't bother the general public or the justice system.
@orcodrilo
@orcodrilo 8 лет назад
One issue I find here is that it mixes up the idea of "deciding" with the idea of "predicting" what will be decided. In other words, as if determinism implies there is no free will. To be able to predict others people choice does not mean we are forcing them to make such choice.
@sada0101
@sada0101 8 лет назад
It is saying that the brain is responsible and we have no control over how our brain is designed (genetics) or how it works.
@paddleed6176
@paddleed6176 3 года назад
@@sada0101 A man can do what he wants, but not want what he wants. We do have control over our actions
@katherinetheawesom
@katherinetheawesom 8 лет назад
Say you have a vicious dog that bites people. So what if the dog was born with the inclination to bite, and so what if it was taught to bite by its owners? None of this matters to the random stranger who was bitten by the dog. Sure, you can empathize with it- if you were born in the dog's circumstances and with the dog's intellegence, you would have bitten the stranger just as it did- but empathizing with the dog won't keep it from biting. If anything, your sympathy and lack of dicipline will make the dog bite even more. That's why it's good to believe in free will, whether or not it's an illusion.
@Chronically_ChiII
@Chronically_ChiII 8 лет назад
+Katherine Broderick Dude... Even if you empathize with someone does not mean you are not allowed to teach him/her something new on how to act more appropriately! it only means that you're more understanding of the situation, leading you to approach the problem in the right way. Also, believing in something that is not real is intellectually dishonest, (maybe you do not give a crap about that, but most of the time it's logically the right thing to do).
@katherinetheawesom
@katherinetheawesom 8 лет назад
+Cubed That's a good point- empathy can be used as a tool to help people. If you understand someone else's perspective, then you'll have a better understanding of how to teach or convince or help them. However, I wasn't saying that it's bad to empathize with people- I'm saying that our society functions much better with everyone believing in free will/having accountability for their actions than it would if everyone were to start believeing free will is an illusion. Philosophically, the 'free choice = an illusion' argument is surprisingly convincing; realistically, though, it has some flaws and will never truly be more than an intellectual exercise on the fringes of RU-vid. To address your other point, you're right, I don't really care about intellectual honesty. Sure, it's usually bad to believe in stuff that isn't real, but there are plenty of exceptions- I think that this is one of those exceptions. You say that "most of the time it's the right thing" to be intellectually honest- do you think that this is one of those times?
@francoviollaz5586
@francoviollaz5586 6 лет назад
Katherine Broderick the problem is phycopaths dont want to bite you they just lack empathy, are antisocial, are materealistic, have a glorified aelf image of themselfs and have manipulative and impulsive tendensis. They in short arent limited by moral or other peoples opinion and are driven by the end product of success
@lynx3845
@lynx3845 6 лет назад
Katherine Broderick be a psychopath, then talk
@lynx3845
@lynx3845 6 лет назад
Katherine Broderick remember that they didn’t choose how there Brain was made. They don’t have the option to have empathy. If you didn’t have empathy you would not fell bad for someone you killed...
@MolotovBg
@MolotovBg 7 лет назад
I see someone has been listening to Sam Harris
@eviljohnnybravo7575
@eviljohnnybravo7575 7 лет назад
lol that's what I was thinking
@SeanKillackey2015
@SeanKillackey2015 7 лет назад
Maybe he is the only one without free will, and so we can't blame him for it.
@UnClassif1ed
@UnClassif1ed 7 лет назад
so what and where did Sam get his ideas from (not bagging Sam)... truth is these ideas are not new
@eviljohnnybravo7575
@eviljohnnybravo7575 7 лет назад
***** He was studying to become a philosopher in college but switched to neuroscience, he has 3 scientific works that are published in scientific journals that are centered around the concept of belief, the reason we said this guy was obviously listening to Sam was because all these stories and examples are from one of his interviews with Joe Rogan. The ideas are not new, but they aren't largely accepted either so Sam focuses more on creating a platform for ideas that people are afraid of giving credence. If you're interested just look up the free will joe rogan sam harris podcast on youtube
@jalen2354
@jalen2354 7 лет назад
it is almost verbatim Sam Harris's lecture on Free Will just condensed.
@alyssa8545
@alyssa8545 7 лет назад
What I love about all these videos is how he offers a solution, and doesn't just point a finger at someone or some concept and find faults. I feel its a much more constructive approach to psychology lessons, not just "this is what it is" but how others can use that info to help their lives.
@Killz0mbies
@Killz0mbies 8 лет назад
This is how people normalize extreme ideas; by saying it isn't their fault. Just because they haven't control over how their brain developed, does not conclude that they are not at fault for their actions. They are, because they know exactly what they are doing.
@ulissesmendoza8752
@ulissesmendoza8752 4 года назад
You don't seem to understand how the brain works then we don't make any choices the brain does that for you we are literally nothing there is no such thing as you because you can't define you literally!! the thing that keep us alive is the brain and the body (and yes i understand it's to much) but that's how the brain works it's like its is own body of a sense
@namelmao4231
@namelmao4231 4 года назад
@F Kelley But everything that they go through leads to them choosing to do what is considered "morally wrong" If thats the case then isn't everything technically everyone's fault In the end everything is connected, one thing leads to another and anyone's actions could lead to someone's demise without their knowledge When someone murders another, it is in fact everyone's fault, even those who are dead for a long time. So why are we bringing shame upon evil, why are we praising the good. Is it because we like the good while we hate evil? But that would be pretty selfish in that sense. How would it feel like to be those who are tainted by evil. Those who do bad shouldn't actually be called "bad". They are the result of tragedies, after all every villain has their story to tell To be honest, I think what we are doing as society, is called discrimination. Instead of bringing shame on all those who kill, murder or maybe those who are complete assholes. I believe we should be helping them instead of fighting them. We should learn to love everyone equally and not to discriminate Changed my mind
@notwerkinginthishouse8634
@notwerkinginthishouse8634 4 года назад
@@ulissesmendoza8752 how hurting other people seem okay to anyone?its not like they can't change,they just don't want to fix problems in mature way,but in the weak way,only cowards go and blame other people
@notwerkinginthishouse8634
@notwerkinginthishouse8634 4 года назад
@@namelmao4231 of course that you will hate evil ... for example,its not anyone's fault that you 'can't ' study, you just choosing not to
@ulissesmendoza8752
@ulissesmendoza8752 4 года назад
@@notwerkinginthishouse8634 you don't seem to understand how the brain works then lmfao the brain has a thinking of its own it's a consciousness all on it's own your nothing but a shell following the words of the brain
@ssppeellll
@ssppeellll 8 лет назад
1:57 -- Just because the researcher predicted the button push before it happened doesn't mean the subject was not exercising free will. If the subject is working up to the decision--via free will--the researcher will see it coming before the actual push. It's a bit like saying I predicted someone would drink coffee because I saw them get up and walk over to where the coffee pot was. They couldn't have freely chosen to drink coffee because I knew they would drink it before they did!
@ThomasRiver69
@ThomasRiver69 8 лет назад
+ssppeellll The study shows that, even before the person stood to go grab the coffee, brain waves were going off long before the action begun. So following this logic with the topic of the video: are we in control of our decision when to get up to grab the coffee or is our brain making the decision and we only watch ourselves involuntarily getting up to grab the coffee.
@ssppeellll
@ssppeellll 8 лет назад
+ThomasRiver69 Thanks for that clarification, Thomas. I should probably watch the video again and pay a little more attention. (But, to be honest, I probably won't.)
@davidburke4101
@davidburke4101 8 лет назад
+thomasofthearkt Lets say there was a computer that had 100% free will. However, in order to execute a program, it has to be loaded into memory. You would see that the program was loaded into memory before the program was executed. This experiment would still conclude that the computer had no free will since it was loaded into memory before it ran the program. Maybe this is the way the brain needs to work in order to actually do something.
@LithningWolf
@LithningWolf 7 лет назад
If you plan something before you want it then it's not YOUR free will and be definition it is not free will, maybe it is only causality, maybe it is indeed a " will " but it's not yours and therefore it's not your free will since YOU DON'T GET TO CHOOSE. It's not hard to understand, if your brain plan something before you WANT it then, it is not your " want " you is at the origin of the thing, it is not your free will.
@ssppeellll
@ssppeellll 7 лет назад
A new comment in this thread has prompted me to re-read old comments (including my own). Thomasoftheark1 said, "are we in control of our decision when to get up to grab the coffee or is our brain making the decision" It seems to me that this is suggesting that our brain is some entity separate from ourselves. If my brain makes a decision, doesn't that mean I made the decision? If not, how am I to make a decision (i.e., exercise free will) other than with my brain?
@GroovyGoomba221
@GroovyGoomba221 9 лет назад
I love your videos! I hope to see more content from this channel in the future!
@behindyou6427
@behindyou6427 4 года назад
I thought this was very obvious and wondered why more people didn’t know this
@Proman642
@Proman642 7 лет назад
Why people do what they do is not the issue. The issue is that when people do things that are destructive to other people they must be stopped permanently. All this sympathy leads to repeat offenders getting released back into society to ruin more lives over and over again.
@WarpScanner
@WarpScanner 7 лет назад
Its not sympathy. Its acknowledgement that "punishment" is pointless and meaningless. We need to of course emphasize protecting society, but reform is also a possible avenue for some people. Here is a thought experiment: Imagine if we had a device that would change psychopaths into normal people, and a psycho murderer had this device applied to him along with normal therapy, should he not be released because of his past actions, even if we know after that he had been completely "fixed"?
@gbaker1a775
@gbaker1a775 7 лет назад
Of course he should be released.
@Reddles37
@Reddles37 7 лет назад
Obviously in this case the criminal should be released, but unfortunately we have no such device. In reality, we have to use other ways to try to change their behavior, which is where punishments come in. The purpose of punishing criminals is not just to hurt them because they 'deserve' it, it is supposed to act as a form of conditioning to train them not to commit crimes.
@gbaker1a775
@gbaker1a775 7 лет назад
Reddles37​ the death penalty and life without parole contradict your claim. I admit those are on the extreme side and we can agree that those actions are meant to remove dangerous people from society who have no chance of reform. But we also restrict prisoners from many activities and material possessions and there is absolutely no science behind these restrictions. We are definitely seeking to punish criminals. 
@Proman642
@Proman642 7 лет назад
Glen C Baker Jr 80% of crime is committed by repeat offenders. Clearly something isn't working.
@emmamay3820
@emmamay3820 7 лет назад
I think that what you describe is the mechanism of free will, rather than the absence of it. On the other hand, if there is no such thing as free will, and if we tortured Uday Hussein to death, it wouldn't have made us evil. We would just be chemicals and life experiences, after all.
@TheSLK66
@TheSLK66 7 лет назад
Agreed, you can't judge someone as evil, but from a human perspective you can judge the degree of damage they do to society and the possibilities of them being re-incorporated into society (which are usually very high [damage] and very unlikely [re-incorporation] respectively).
@quincunxproductions9364
@quincunxproductions9364 4 года назад
Science has a long way to go yet in this area. Our brains are responding and changing with each choice we make. We do indeed have free will.
@jreason
@jreason 7 лет назад
I understand where you are coming from, some thought provoking points brought up. However, consider this, when society punishes a psychopath, it is not the physical body which is being punished but rather the brain, as that is where all feelings are perceived. So whilst some people may be put in unfortunate circumstances, we as a society are punishing the newly shaped brain rather than the one the person was born with.
@xilfp7g813
@xilfp7g813 3 года назад
@Hatersoftloup2arepathetic Yoloswag psychopaths are born, their brain is different. Look at the scans
@billional1052
@billional1052 8 лет назад
Criminals thrive on the indulgence of society's understanding.
@Goriaas
@Goriaas 7 лет назад
Semantics. I my opinion a person who can not resist doing evil/or is determined to do evil, for whatever reason is therefor evil, free will or not
@RandomGuy-ll9uz
@RandomGuy-ll9uz 7 лет назад
how do you define "evil"
@Goriaas
@Goriaas 7 лет назад
Random Guy Things/people on a whole clearly harmful to people, worsening their quality of life, impacting them negatively, often with no upsides for anyone. A net negative. There are of course many cases that are grey areas. But murdering people for no reason but to please your urges is not for me. That is my subjective definition, I think most have a somewhat close definition
@SeanKillackey2015
@SeanKillackey2015 7 лет назад
What about the principle that an ought implies a can? If a person could not help but do an action, then he is not responsible for it, neither blameworthy nor praiseworthy. Of course we do have free will, and all things being equal are responsible for our actions, but without that, I fail to see any reason to think that we are morally responsible for anything, and in fact, no reason to think that our cognitive faculties would have developed by chance to be accurate (that is, generally reliable), and thus have one reason to affirm free will and one defeater to determinism.
@Goriaas
@Goriaas 7 лет назад
Sean Killackey Yes it is true there is no such thing as objective morality. But we are still responsible for breaking our(subjective, culturally agreed upon) moral codex. Whether or not we "chose" to, could not resist(like a psycho), or were determined to, all along makes no difference. We in the modern world(sets of morals shift slightly over time and different cultures, but most of it based on the golden rule, and what is ultimately best for society) agree upon what is good and what is evil and grey areas inbetween. If you violate those rules gravely with actions you are considered evil. Whether you were "determined" or could not choose, or did it out of your free will is ultimately not provable/non-provable and therefor mostly irrelevant
@SeanKillackey2015
@SeanKillackey2015 7 лет назад
If we don't have free will, that doesn't mean that we don't choose things. But that's not a big point. There is a good reason to disagree with you about the objectivity of morality, its a common intuition that there are certain moral principles that are objectively true, certain moral first principles, for example, and that certain acts are objectively wrong. My warrant for believing those is stronger than any reason to deny the objectivity of morality. But if there is no morality (subjective morality is worthless, since it doesn't really have any "oughtness" to it), and if there is no free will, then we can't actually be responsible for our actions. It makes an enormous difference. Why do you think that there is no free will or objective morality?
@jrforever1165
@jrforever1165 6 лет назад
What's the name of the instrumental playing in the very beginning of the video
@MindofMichaelMyers
@MindofMichaelMyers 8 лет назад
You can choose to not have free will because you have free will. How can you question free will without free will. If free will doesn't exist then nothing is man made, nobody owns anything, and rules exist to sabotage, and punishment is slavery........ Consequences are acceptable, preferences aren't definitive, and reactions are unwarranted.
@abdullahmohammed8812
@abdullahmohammed8812 8 лет назад
thanks
@ITR
@ITR 8 лет назад
Actually, quite few criminals are punished for the sake of punishing. Other reasons for punishment could be: Making the action have a consequence, so people have a reason _not_ to commit the crime Rehabilitating or Educating the prisoner in some way that might stop them from doing it again Preventing the criminal from doing said crime for an extended period of time
@vusalqasmov318
@vusalqasmov318 5 лет назад
I think this kind of determinism is partly true but there is solution whether genetics or environment did it. We can always have more control over our actions with help of a psychologist. The power psychology has isn't used even a little bit.
@MaximC
@MaximC 7 лет назад
I like how you choose what to speak about and how objectively you do this. Thanks.
@VeryStupidChannel
@VeryStupidChannel 7 лет назад
What if the button pressing study wasn't proving that there isn't free will, but that the doctor can read minds in a some way?
@taragnor
@taragnor 7 лет назад
Honestly I don't see how the button pressing strategy really proves much beyond just that decisions have internal brain effects that are detectable. Which honestly isn't really all that surprising. Yes, the brain's processes do produce electrical waves which can be measured. Thoughts and emotions do produce detectable physical feedback in the body, that's nothing new. The science of lie detection is inherently based on this principle, and of course... no lie detectors are 100% reliable. Now if the doctor was able to set up conditions in his lab that would ensure humans pressed the button exactly on cue and were 100% predictable then that would be an impressive argument for hard determinism.
@VeryStupidChannel
@VeryStupidChannel 7 лет назад
totally agree on that, it's not groundbreaking that someone you can observe the brain and see what is happening. The study should have been done that the test subjects have more than 1 button and the doctor could predict what buttons the subject will press.
@RTukka
@RTukka 7 лет назад
A critical point that's not very heavily emphasized in the video is that the scientist in this study knew that the participant was going to press the button *before* the participant was even aware that he'd made that decision. If your mind is making decisions before you're conscious aware of it, then that it seems like that must undermine your ability to assert control over your own decision-making processes. How can you "control" something that you're not even aware of? Also, a two button variant of the study mentioned in the video has been performed. (www.nature.com/news/2008/080411/full/news.2008.751.html)
@taragnor
@taragnor 7 лет назад
+Quinstol Brain awareness may simply be an interesting facet of human memory and perception not being 100% accurate. After all there's lots of optical illusions that fool the brain, and being unable to accurately perceive when the choice is made could be simply an issue with self-perception rather than an indication that the brain isn't making choices.
@RTukka
@RTukka 7 лет назад
taragnor The brain is, in some sense, determining the outcome of the person's behaviors in those studies. However, if the decision the brain happens beneath the level of conscious awareness (and therefore, control), can it meaningfully be said to be a choice the person made? We don't normally hold people accountable for involuntarily/unconscious actions. For decisions as arbitrary as button pushing, the question of whether someone has conscious control over their actions may not be very interesting... but if it so happens that unconscious processes play a large role in determining how we make more meaningful decisions, that would have serious implications for free will. The button pushing studies make this possibility more plausible, though are a long ways from proving it. And it's interesting you bring up optical illusions, because to me they also seem to slightly undermine the notion of free will, by showing a discrepancy between what we see and what our brain _tells us_ we see. If the brain can inaccurately report sensory input (and memories) then how can we be sure that it's accurately reporting on the thought processes that are ostensibly responsible for the choices we make? If our consciousness has inaccurate (or lacking) information on the thoughts that culminate in our "decisions," then are we really in control of those decisions? I would say no. On a certain level though, free will is almost certainly an illusion because the brain is a material object that obeys the laws of physics in a deterministic fashion. But that's just on one level. The button pushing experiments, and optical illusions, and actions manifested from our unconscious/subconscious all hint that there may be another layer of non-control.
@BillyTWildi
@BillyTWildi 8 лет назад
I have quite a few problems with this video: 1. You make the case against free-will sound less contentious than it probably is. As far as I know, the conclusions one can draw from experiment's like Fried's and Libet's is limited. 2. I always find it slightly bizarre for determinists to say 'we shouldn't hold people responsible for their actions', presumably our decision to hold people responsible is as much a product of our genes and society as any other decision. 3. Look, it's all very well saying we should drop our assumptions that people do bad things because they are bad people so we can be more empathetic and punish better, but that only makes the case for one side. Denying people's free will can at best be highly demotivating, and at worst promote a 'nothing is off limits' approach to morality. Hence even if you want to take a consequentialist view of morality, it is not clear your conclusion is the right one.
@johannesgh90
@johannesgh90 8 лет назад
+BillyTWildi "Denying people's free will can at best be highly demotivating," I disagree ... For me I was convinced by Sam Harris' book on the subject (which I'd guess is this video's sole source) and I gained empathy for people who do horrible things as well as diminishing my fear of making mistakes because understanding that any mistake you make anyone else would make in the exact same circumstance (including your body and brain) makes the possibility of failure seem less overwhelming. Now, I'm not saying that those positive effects could not have been brought about in any other way but rather that they were brought about by this change in beliefs which you essentially stated could not have positive effects. I hope you consider this point of view. Also, I don't think it follows to say we shouldn't hold people responsible if they don't have free will. It's just that punishments in the sense of inflicting pain on someone for revenge or because they 'deserve it' is no longer justified. Then the whole justice system must be designed from a purely pragmatic standpoint of increasing well-being and decreasing suffering overall. Locking people up for certain crimes as a safety precaution for other members of society or as a deterrent for other people might be justified depending on the crime and the effectiveness of that system and once they are in there they should be helped to become a better person if that's possible ... I'm not sure I explained that well, do you see my point?
@BillyTWildi
@BillyTWildi 8 лет назад
+Johannes G Halldorsson I think you've misrepresented me a little; I did not fully commit to the view that a belief in free will is consequentially better (though see citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.510.948&rep=rep1&type=pdf for a defence of that view). Notice I said "it is not clear your conclusion is the right one." My complaint was that this video makes a claim that it would be better if we stopped holding people morally responsible, and it is not obvious that is the case, the opposite MIGHT be true. I am not well-read enough on the topic to have a fully formed opinion. I certainly though never "essentially stated [denying free will] could not have positive effects." I am in fact sure it has some positive effects, but also some negative effects, and I am not sure what the outcome is on balance. It does, in fact, follow to say we shouldn't hold people responsible if they don't have free-will, you conflated punishment and responsibility in your second point. I agree that the justice system can be pragmatic, but fundamentally people would still not be responsible for their crimes, because they had no choice.
@johannesgh90
@johannesgh90 8 лет назад
On your first point I'll ask you to explain what you meant by "Denying people's free will can at best be highly demotivating" since you seem to be saying I misunderstood that part. And on the second point I should probably clarify my stance: I'm saying that if there is no free will then people are not responsible for their own actions in an objective or absolute way, but they should still be held responsible for practical reasons. Punishment in the sense of holding people responsible in such a way that it makes society better without being unnecessarily harsh is then justifiable, but not punishment in the sense of inflicting pain for retributive purposes. I hope I'm communicating this well, English is my second language so sometimes my definitions are a bit off in these kinds of discussions. At the risk of repeating myself, it looks to me like you missed the distinction between absolute responsibility and the act of holding someone responsible, which I do not think are dependent on each other. Do you still think I'm conflating punishment and responsibility? If so, please explain.
@Chronically_ChiII
@Chronically_ChiII 8 лет назад
+Johannes G Halldorsson 100% sammála
@BillyTWildi
@BillyTWildi 8 лет назад
+Johannes G Halldorsson I mispoke when I said 'at best', it is indeed one of many possible consequences. My complaint is that the video doesn't consider these concerns, perhaps they are answerable. I don't think we substantively disagree on the responsibility point, what I am calling punishment you are calling 'holding people responsible', I apologise for creating a definitional dispute, we entirely agree on that point. I guess I don't like applying the word 'responsibility' if there is no free-will, because it would be like holding a rock responsible that fell on someone's head.
@KO-fh4vn
@KO-fh4vn 7 лет назад
The criminal justice system isn't based on punishing criminal out of vengeance. Whether someone or something is believed to be responsible for it's own actions is inconsequential to the idea that we ought to minimize it's interactions with the public if that person or thing is deemed to be a danger to the public. If there existed some creature to whom we might attribute perfect free will and that creature sought to bring us harm, we would hope to detain and nuetralize any threat the creature posed to us, and conversely, if there were an unpredictable and wild animal on the loose, we would take the same measures. The criminal justice system is based on the concept that there is a legitimate authority behind the public's desire for self preservation. I believe you are conflating justice with vengeance.
@SmallSpoonBrigade
@SmallSpoonBrigade 7 лет назад
Depends where you are. In the US, it absolutely is a matter of punishment. There's little to no treatment provided in prison and the conditions themselves are unnecessarily harsh for the purpose of removing the threat or healing the wounded. Then upon release, the punishment continues oftentimes leaving the paroled prisoner with few options for betterment. However, in other countries, they do have systems where incarceration is for the purposes of rehabilitation and lessening the crime rates. In which case, you'd be right.
@KO-fh4vn
@KO-fh4vn 7 лет назад
Chris L I wasn't clear enough. When I said criminal justice system, I should have said, judicial system. With this clarification, the Judicial system is responsible for determining the appropriate sentencing for someone who is found to have broken the law, but not responsible for how it is carried out. I agree that our criminal justice system is flawed. I have little to commend it for when contrasted with my criticisms.
@MaxLohMusic
@MaxLohMusic 7 лет назад
You missed another (arguably much more influential) incentive for the penal system: DETERRENCE. If the only thing that mattered was to quarantine the criminal, then theoretically you could build them an amazing billion dollar facility and give them a great life, in isolation from public. Then, murders would skyrocket, because the consequence of murder is just to go to a nice place isolated from the public. That's why as it stands, the justice system works, regardless of your beliefs of whether free will exists.
@KO-fh4vn
@KO-fh4vn 7 лет назад
***** well I didn't mention that but I wouldn't say that point was lost on my argument. I agree entirely though.
@Halendor960
@Halendor960 8 лет назад
Curious question! Why do you have a clock ticking in the background? :)
@thiery572
@thiery572 7 лет назад
Do you know the spiritual cause of psychopath mental disease is never take responsibility of their actions? That once he take consequences of his actions, he might start develop FEELINGS and probably empathy?
@SmallSpoonBrigade
@SmallSpoonBrigade 7 лет назад
It's a matter of the regions where guilt and remorse being felt not activating. Neurological conditions always run on a continuum, but if you're talking about somebody who has no empathy at all, then no, there's really expecting more than understanding that something is wrong and behaving accordingly is all you can expect. That being said, psychopaths absolutely do have feelings of empathy at times, they just turn it off and on as convenient. Nobody can be charming and manipulative in that fashion without having the feelings of empathy at least occasionally. The difference tends to be that it's directed at an outcome and that it's not a lasting feeling.
@thiery572
@thiery572 7 лет назад
Chris L"they just turn it off and on as convenient." Right.
@SmallSpoonBrigade
@SmallSpoonBrigade 7 лет назад
thiery572 Absolutely. How else do you explain those psychopaths that wind up at high levels of society? The human brain is incapable of faking emotional responses without actually having them for the duration of the experience.
@Luckyyshot
@Luckyyshot 7 лет назад
+Chris L What makes you think "The human brain is incapable of faking emotional responses..."?
@SmallSpoonBrigade
@SmallSpoonBrigade 7 лет назад
Luckyshot Mostly because the brain lacks comprehension of the difference between imagination and reality. If you fake an emotional response that because the automatic response. It's an effect that's been observed many times over the years. Just going around with a convincing smile on your face is going to result in changes to the brain chemistry. Even just thinking about smiling or hugging somebody is typically going to be enough to see an observable change. Also, doctors used to believe that psychopaths have no emotional response at all, but if I'm not mistaken, the view on that has changed. You can't fake emotions over the long term with enough precision that people won't notice. Emotions are just too complicated. It's far easier to turn off undesirable emotions than it is to create fake ones.
@candiduscorvus
@candiduscorvus 7 лет назад
Unfortunately the conclusion that "punishment is wrong" is itself wrong. Instead punishment as a form of corrective action becomes the wrong, and the most logical act would then be to execute the criminal because by this rationale they are unable to be reformed and inherently harmful to society through no fault of their own. The preservation of society therefore demands they be eliminated from it. But that is a very ugly conclusion, isn't it? I certainly think so.
@AlephHead
@AlephHead 7 лет назад
candiduscorvus your conclusion isn't completely right either though. Just because the circumstances of their life led them to have a criminal mindset in the past doesn't mean at all that corrective measures couldn't lead to a change in their mindset for the future. This has in fact nothing to do with the problem of free will even though I can see how you would get that idea.
@candiduscorvus
@candiduscorvus 7 лет назад
Chief Necro Yeah but I'm not making a conclusion. I'm just playing the flawed logic of this video to its logical end and pointing out the absurdity of it.
@alejandrogangotena9033
@alejandrogangotena9033 7 лет назад
Not really, that´s not the logical conclusion. It would be the logical conclusion if our actions were said to steam ONLY from genetics, but given enviroment is also a factor, and it is an ongoing thing that is never turned of (we continually get new experiences) the premises established do not contradict the posibility of new enviromental inputs modifying the behaviour for good. Not that I am saying this will or will not happen in most cases or why, but I am simply comenting its not the same to say people have no free will than to say people dont change as a simple example, its not the same to say that a clock cannot be fixed to a different time than to say that a clock does not have free will. That is, again, a way simplified example.
@candiduscorvus
@candiduscorvus 7 лет назад
Alejandro Gangotena See my reply to Chief Necro.
@alejandrogangotena9033
@alejandrogangotena9033 7 лет назад
candiduscorvus your reply to him again seems to pretend its only genetics with no connection to enviroment.
@samsammurphy
@samsammurphy 7 лет назад
Thank you for this video!
@caseywood7904
@caseywood7904 7 лет назад
Looking at the Fried study, all it claims is that the neuronal signals to move happened before the "conscious decision to move" appeared in people's heads. That does not preclude the idea that free will exists at all. For example, when you make the decision to move your hand, the neurons that fire the hand to move, reach your hand before they reach your body's awareness that it has moved. Most of the neuronal pathways for your muscles work like this. The path for the neurons to fire to the muscles is quicker than to awareness. This is one of the reasons why we have a "fight or flight" mechanism.
@miloinindo
@miloinindo 7 лет назад
Whether free will exists or not has no bearing on whether we can and should be held accountable. This is a common mistake in reasoning in that people confuse WHY we make the decision with the fact that we make the decision. The reason this is faulty should become clearer by simply using an analogous logic in which you state that something didn't happen because you know how it happened. For instance, knowing the mechanism by which the moon orbits the Earth does not, in any way, change the simple reality that it orbits the Earth. The same thing is true here. Yes, my brain is simply reacting in a manner that is dictated by chemical biology. That doesn't change that my brain is making a decision when it makes a decision. While it is true that our brain often makes decisions long before we are consciously aware of those decisions, this does not mean that all decisions are made in this way. If that was the case, we would not be able to react as quickly as we do.
@RTukka
@RTukka 7 лет назад
Like the video says, though -- it's a matter of perspective. If free will is an illusion, it suggests that the emphasis should be less on what people "deserve," and more on limiting future harm and improving overall welfare. Although that argument can be made independent of one's beliefs about free will. You make a fair point about how limited button-pushing studies don't prove that other decisions operate on a level that allows conscious reflection and consideration. However, free will is still on very shaky ground considering that all evidence suggests that the mind is an entirely material object that obeys deterministic physical laws.
@miloinindo
@miloinindo 7 лет назад
That doesn't address my argument. My argument is that our mind is entirely deterministic but that doesn't change that we have free will. That our decisions are predetermined doesn't mean that we do not make those decisions.
@GregTom2
@GregTom2 7 лет назад
Your last paragraph is bullshit. Your first paragraph misses the point. Of course psychopaths do evil things. But is the moon responsible for orbiting the earth?
@miloinindo
@miloinindo 7 лет назад
Sorry, but if you don't understand the argument I am making, that is on you as there's nothing ambiguous about it.
@GregTom2
@GregTom2 7 лет назад
miloinindo You can't really blame someone for not understanding the compatibilist argument. It is famously criticized for not being logical. I very well understand what you wrote down, I just don't think it's a valid reasoning. Here is the argument you wrote down. 1) The reason why something acts a certain way doesn't change the fact that it does. 2) Regardless of the reason why my brain did a thing, the fact is my brain did a thing. 3) It's true that our subconscious sometimes makes decisions for us, but there is no evidence that all decisions are made that way. 4) Non-deterministic decision making is the reason why we can quickly react to new situations. So here are my observation: - The first and second points don't address responsibility. No one is questioning the fact that the moon orbits the earth, or that your brain makes decisions. We are questioning weather or not the moon/your brain are responsible for it. - The third and fourth point is a non sequitur to one and two. - Just because we only have evidence that decision making is a subconscious process some of the time doesn't mean we have evidence that it is sometimes a conscious process. - Reflexes are an example of a "quick reaction" where the central nervous system isn't involved at all. Clearly, free will isn't necessary to react to new situation quickly.
@brodofaggins6078
@brodofaggins6078 7 лет назад
Yeah... Not buying it. At all.
@En_theo
@En_theo 7 лет назад
Fine. Your program works perfectly :)
@GregTom2
@GregTom2 7 лет назад
Why? What part of this isn't obvious? What you are is just atoms bouncing into each other, following the laws of physics. Your conception of the "self" is just an image projected by your central nervous system, and "choice" is in fact entirely determined by atoms bouncing into each other, not by "Charles Baggins", if such a concept even exists. So, why would you attribute the responsibility of an action to the abstract concept of a "person"? A brain did it. A brain followed the laws of physics. Your brain follows the laws of physics. You might have a better brain than the psychopath, but it's not really to your credit.
@ChucksSEADnDEAD
@ChucksSEADnDEAD 7 лет назад
The brain follows the laws of physics the same way a CPU does. If you develop an AI so advanced it develops a conscience, and it chooses to kill someone (actual choice, not just a bugged program running or a hack) it's the AI's choice. The AI has no control over how electric signals work, but used them nevertheless to operate it's decision making. I can't control electricity, but my choice to tap this reply with my fingers was made by controlling electric impulses in a circuit I have full control over.
@leonardojimenez3703
@leonardojimenez3703 3 года назад
Phycopathic have no regulars to good or bad they choose whatever they want, they should be choosing good instead of evil which makes them not the correct way
@anthuanleyva
@anthuanleyva 8 лет назад
Your videos are quite insightful and creative. Keep it up, mate.
@user-zt2gu1qh5i
@user-zt2gu1qh5i 4 года назад
By punishing criminals, it creates an "environment" that it is bad to do wrong, whereas otherwise would make such to have an environment more likely to commit crime
@JXEns
@JXEns 8 лет назад
Just because people cannot control their genetics or their environment doesn't mean they have no free will. One could argue that in many cases we can change our environment, but there still would be the question of whether they did it freely or because of their genetics or environment.) There could still be other factors though. Merely explaining the genetics and environment play a large role in decision making doesn't mean nothing else does.
@JXEns
@JXEns 3 года назад
@Hatersoftloup2arepathetic Yoloswag How can free will be explained as a combination of nature and nuture? Then it's not free will. Yet, the perception of free will is strong enough that I think we need stronger evidence that we don't have it to accept that. The studies mentioned here, don't show this conclusively.
@MaxLohMusic
@MaxLohMusic 7 лет назад
What's with the obsession that in order to be free, we must also defy physics? The problem with this assessment is then there is NO SUCH THING as "evil", "fault", "control", or "freedom" -- the words lose meaning and in fact become logical paradoxes. Yet clearly we do use those words and understand what they mean in day-to-day communication. That's why Compatibilism (look it up on wikipedia) makes infinitely more sense than total denial that we're free. The second flaw with this video is the dismissal of punishment just because the people aren't at fault. Punishment always has a use whether or not you believe in free will and that's DETERRENCE. The threat of punishment deters would-be criminals from committing crimes.
@alienufo1986
@alienufo1986 6 лет назад
WHat is the background musics at 0:29?
@yippeekaiyay7526
@yippeekaiyay7526 7 лет назад
You are very intelligent, and a good teacher. I'm glad YOU are a part of youtube, content like this is very rare
@excraftproduction
@excraftproduction 9 лет назад
This video was really well made, i really hope you get more views and attention! Here is my thoughts though. If we don't punish criminals and sociopaths their children and close enviroment will be affected by them resulting in creating more of them. Even though it maybe isn't their fault that they are like they are. I know that wasn't the point of this video but i think it's important to note.
@Snowpire
@Snowpire 9 лет назад
He was talking about punishment for the sake of punishment or revenge being wrong. Jailing someone to protect others is a valid reason for taking away someones freedom. I think that a more moral system would be focused on rehabilitation; changing someones environment so that they don't commit harm.
@sloppyoyster5779
@sloppyoyster5779 3 года назад
@@Snowpire It is sometimes better to remove some people from society
@paucarvalho7369
@paucarvalho7369 8 лет назад
I don't care about their upbringing.
@paucarvalho7369
@paucarvalho7369 8 лет назад
***** Blame yourself
@raynwolfsbane2084
@raynwolfsbane2084 6 лет назад
Translation: I don't want to think logically and prefer to use my emotions
@jlgmentorshipLLC
@jlgmentorshipLLC 5 лет назад
To the point! Thank you, 🎹🎶🎹🎶
@jeffreyhawthornegoines8727
@jeffreyhawthornegoines8727 3 года назад
All this science, objectivity and abstraction melt when a psychoparh completely destroys your life with glacial determination
@arnigeir1597
@arnigeir1597 7 лет назад
people like to believe in this ultimate evil, because it makes them selves seem better in comparison, believing in pre-determinism does the same trick, they now think they are not to blame for any of their actions. at the end of the day, some think we have no free will, to avoid the stress of personal blame but others do to get them where they want to be.
@tjeulink
@tjeulink 7 лет назад
i use it in this way: everyone else is a victem of their situation, what can i do to influence them in a constructieve way that makes their and my Life better. for myself i say that i have a choice, because just saying so motivates me to behave better.
@arnigeir1597
@arnigeir1597 7 лет назад
and assuming people have no free will shouldn't we just kill every one who we think it's not worth putting the effort into making useful? he says that this opens up a path for empathy but according to this some people are predestined to be harmful, so why not remove them?
@tjeulink
@tjeulink 7 лет назад
Arni Geir everyone is predestined to be harmful in some situations, but nobody is harmful in every situation. your question is wrong.
@arnigeir1597
@arnigeir1597 7 лет назад
I don't think you understand, my point was that pre-determinism won't make everything better since you could use it to justify more cruelty.
@arnigeir1597
@arnigeir1597 7 лет назад
the difference is between an asshole who cuts the line and the asshole who rapes ans murders weekly.
@asareboakye
@asareboakye 7 лет назад
u cannot separate the brain from the body. both are linked and that makes up the INDIVIDUAL.
@En_theo
@En_theo 7 лет назад
I think he was just simplifying the concept of being controlled by laws of physics. So, yes, the body is part of the process.
@yulin84
@yulin84 7 лет назад
You can separate the brain from the body. (theoretically, of course)
@mahuk.
@mahuk. 7 лет назад
That's exactly the problem, both are connected and neuronal damage can make some connections hard or impossible, which is what I have, and I'm not a criminal. I have decades of a clean record helping people.
@silicalnz
@silicalnz 7 лет назад
If you were to lose your arm you wold still be you. Its like having a pile of sand and removing 1 piece of sand bit by bit, at what point is it still called a pile? In reverse if you were to start with 1 grain of sand and add 1, bit by bit, at what point does it become a pile?...
@yannisxs6643
@yannisxs6643 8 лет назад
Thank you for bringing this up and mostly I agree with you. Just two things to ponder on. Two people under no circumstances will feel/be/alterer in the same way, because we are different. Traumatic event "A" will be perceived 7 billion times differently. And since free-will isn't so free, not doing something radical against the "bad" guys isn't the best idea. Since they are controlled by their profound impulses, nothing will prevent them from repeating and repeating given the right frame. They will do it again, they will kill, rape, torture...etc. It's not in their power, but as long as they have the feeling/the need, they won't control it. No matter how loved they feel, or appreciated. Because it is not the right-now-love that it's missing. It is an old forgotten "not loved", when they needed it really bad.
@ExatedWarrior
@ExatedWarrior 7 лет назад
What is that suppose to mean by "I" don't have free will? How is it not me making the decision if I am the process that makes those decisions? Where would the distinction be between me and my brain be if all I am is the brain?
@MsThatAwesomeguy
@MsThatAwesomeguy 7 лет назад
Evil is a Human concept.
@SeanKillackey2015
@SeanKillackey2015 7 лет назад
So raping a child is not objectively immoral? On your view it isn't. Thus your view is absurd and should be rejected. (Or do you want to doubt other intuitive truths, like those of logic as well?)
@MsThatAwesomeguy
@MsThatAwesomeguy 7 лет назад
I meant Evil is a a human concept which means it's only humans that are evil. There is no evil in nature.
@MsThatAwesomeguy
@MsThatAwesomeguy 7 лет назад
There is also a difference between thinking and knowing for fact. And I know for fact that Evil is a human concept.
@SeanKillackey2015
@SeanKillackey2015 7 лет назад
Mr.ThatAwesomeguy I see what you're saying better now. However, it seems logically possible for their to be evil aliens or angels, so I don't know if I'd say that evil is limited only to humans. Further, certain moral truths, such as "rape is impermissible," or "you ought not intentionally kill the innocent," seem necessarily true. (That is, they hold in every possible world, even one where there were no human beings.)
@artistsanomalous7369
@artistsanomalous7369 7 лет назад
It is an axiom of logic that a thing can't be a cause of itself, therefore moral responsibility is a self-contradictory concept. But since the concept of objective moral truth depends on that of moral responsibility, I take it to be intuitive that there are no objective moral truths.
@juppertan
@juppertan 7 лет назад
First of all: I love your videos! However, I have a comment. The study with the hand movement was debunked a long time ago. Also, it was carried out by Benjamin Libet. You can read about it here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Libet
@cassandragould7748
@cassandragould7748 8 лет назад
this is one of the best videos I ever seen!
@aikologic
@aikologic 7 лет назад
The thing is, our justice system is too geared towards punishment rather than towards behavior correction.
@osmanberathamurcu
@osmanberathamurcu 7 лет назад
Genetics and enviroment dont sum up the equation,Thus there is still something else makes us decide thing,I am not saying it's free will,but it's a quantum level event which we all know don't follow rules like in classical physics. One can be in the same situation and genetics and could do otherwise,and that's where the mystery of brain comes in.
@osmanberathamurcu
@osmanberathamurcu 7 лет назад
Gr8 video though
@GunboyzElite
@GunboyzElite 7 лет назад
Osman Hamurcu that is an interesting thought experiment, however brain chemistry and structure along with genetics and environment DO in fact complete the equation. All we are is a computer, as stated in the video. The quantum level has nothing to do with brains or humans. We just exist, and do things based on how our brain is structured subconsciously.
@savagetruthercritic8646
@savagetruthercritic8646 7 лет назад
This is the quantum level.
@joshhummel1284
@joshhummel1284 7 лет назад
Why does it matter what a criminal thinks or feels like if they committed the action? If one commits a crime, they should be punished accordingly, and there are no excuses.
@MegaIkkuh
@MegaIkkuh 7 лет назад
so if one has autism and he does something autistic, he has to be punished?
@iamsheel
@iamsheel 7 лет назад
absolutely fucking yes!
@MegaIkkuh
@MegaIkkuh 7 лет назад
Josh Hummel smart answer ;P but my point was, when, say, your computer is malfunctioning, you repair it, you don't toss it in jail.
@iamsheel
@iamsheel 7 лет назад
what if it malfunctioning other computers
@MegaIkkuh
@MegaIkkuh 7 лет назад
iamsheel if you mean "affecting" then still, you fix it ;P
@GangurEXE
@GangurEXE 7 лет назад
That's a really good argument against death penalty. We could say that the fact that people do bad things is only determined by environment and psychological/neurotic disorders, which is pretty controversial, but also make a lot of sense
@gloweye
@gloweye 7 лет назад
Actually, it'd make an argument in favor. This person keeps hurting society, and he's not even able to choose not to. It's like having a car that always turns at weird moments to hit pedestrians. You destroy it. (Im against the death penalty myself, BTW. Just pointing out that it's more of an argument in favor of death penalty to against it.)
@GangurEXE
@GangurEXE 7 лет назад
Well, if you think that human life is worth as much as broken car, then sure
@gloweye
@gloweye 7 лет назад
well, I don't. Specifically said that under my post. Just saying that removing choice from the criminal also removes choice from the executioner.
@GangurEXE
@GangurEXE 7 лет назад
If someone keeps hurting others, and we can't do anything to change him then the only right thing we can do is separate him form others. It's quite sad that we have to punish people who are the victims of mental illnesses and our sociality (because we made them do the wrong thing)
@HazardousMoose
@HazardousMoose 8 лет назад
Two issues for me: 1. Assuming actions are just a result of the circumstances and should therefore be viewed as a natural reaction and hence not be punished leads to a positive feedback loop. Imagine a guy steals and gets caught. The authority, forgiving in nature, retrieves the stolen items but lets the perpetrator go without any consequences. For the thieve this was a zero-sum game. Hence he has no reason not to try again. Because in some cases he will win (not getting caught, being able to sell the stolen items) and sometimes he'll get caught, but due to the forgiving nature he won't lose anything. It's like a coin toss. If you lose 10 bucks for tail and only get 5 bucks for head you will intuitively not agree since it's a rigged game, without any chance of exceptional gain(exceptional gain is why lottery and roulette still get played). But if the situation is reversed, so you gain 10 and only lose 5 then you will play the game. Even if you lose sometimes, in the long run it's a profitable strategy. So the punishment for a crime needs to be harsh enough to deter sufficiently, in accordance with likelihood of being caught. And even if free will isn't absolute, the law would be part of the environmental factors which have an influence on your decision making. So I'd conclude that harsher punishment leads to less crime, even with a deterministic approach to the human mind. 2. If I understand you correctly, and do correct me if I'm wrong, feedback from our family, friends and co-workers are part of the environmental factors. And since decision making patterns evidently change with the individual getting older, these feedbacks have an impact. So giving constructive feedback, as well as punishment when necessary, can better an individuals actions towards society. Yet too much empathy and determinism can cause individuals to either feel good no matter their behaviour(due to empathy) or powerless in regard to changing their behaviour. Both can be used to excuse one's bad actions and to repeat them in the future. Regarding the physical/biochemical side of the argument: We often tend to view the laws of "nature" as absolute and exact in their predictions, e.g. classical physics(Newton, Galileo, Maxwell, etc) Yet we now know that there are uncertainties that we can not exactly predict on the subatomic level. A popular illustration being Schrödingers cat. We can't predict the exact moment of death and consequently we can't predict the state of the cat. We can only calculate the probability for its state over time. Why couldn't we suppose the same about human nature? I'm not going to pretend to understand quantum physics, their pure concept goes against my intuition. But since their discovery we had to accept a certain level of randomness in our world. That we cannot exactly predict everything. Maybe the future of neuroscience will proof me wrong. My argument is by no means perfect. But for as long as we don't know, I rather believe that I wrote this comment out of my free will and that nobody knew I would when I got up this morning. They may have predicted it with a certain level of certitude, due to my viewing patterns and previous comments, but they couldn't have been absolutely certain...
@DroopyDog17
@DroopyDog17 7 лет назад
Yes it is fundamentally Udays fault and as well as the environment that shaped the creep, a-duuuh. It has nothing to do with how he made those decisions but that he did. The responsibility lay with him as well as with influencing contributors and participants.
@SmallSpoonBrigade
@SmallSpoonBrigade 7 лет назад
The point you're missing is that the basis for the decisions was flawed. Psychopaths generally understand that things are wrong to do, but they don't understand why they're wrong or feel anything is wrong if they actually do them. One of the reasons why violence remains a problem in the US is that the rules are set up for people that feel the difference between right and wrong whereas the people we're wanting to target are more likely to be people who don't have any sort of strong reaction to that. We lock them in prison without any sort of treatment and then are perplexed when they get out and do it again. If we want to reduce the number of crimes committed by psychopaths, we have to look more closely at the rewards. Stop rewarding bad behavior and the bad behavior will stop. These are not people who act out just to act out, that's a completely different disorder, these are people who act out in order to get something. Punishing won't work as they don't feel any remorse and probably don't even care about being judged.
@GregTom2
@GregTom2 7 лет назад
So the big bang is responsible for creating the atoms that make his brain and environment, and quantum mechanics are responsible for the velocity and position of the particles that make his brain and environment?
@SmallSpoonBrigade
@SmallSpoonBrigade 7 лет назад
GregTom2 Possibly, but more likely particle physics is responsible for basically every chemical reaction that happens in the body. And various other physics specialties explain the way that the neurons fire. Seems a bit over the top to me, but it's probably true in a strictly technical way.
@GregTom2
@GregTom2 7 лет назад
Chris L So then Uday is the one to blame for the Big Bang and quantum physics? That fucker. Does he even know how much shit the big bang and quantum mechanic have caused?
@SmallSpoonBrigade
@SmallSpoonBrigade 7 лет назад
GregTom2 That's a strawman, nobody claimed that Uday was responsible for the big bang or for quantum physics. Neither of which has come up. Our personality is shaped by the brain itself and physics, there is only so much that people can do to change it and hence they get labeled differently from other areas of psychiatry. Blaming Uday makes very little sense as just about anybody else being born into that kind of a life is going to do the exact same thing. Trying to ascribe things to psychopaths with a complete lack of evidence hasn't worked in the past and is unlikely to work in the future. They'll do whatever is exciting and rewarded regardless of morality and how socially acceptable that is. That's how their brains are wired and barring some massive breakthrough in psychiatry that's unlikely to ever change significantly. The best that can reasonably be expected is to align their self-interest with societies interests.
@Will-zc8tz
@Will-zc8tz 8 лет назад
This has got to be a joke. I understand the argument you are making, but not the conclusions you reach... you're saying that people shouldn't be held accountable for their actions which is the stupidest idea I've heard. You say to empathise with the psychopaths; how about empathising with their victims you heartless monster. Glad you're not governing our society.
@Ryanookami
@Ryanookami 7 лет назад
One important distinction not made here is that there is a difference between being unable to empathize with others and with a mental incapacity to understand morality. There are some people whose brain chemistry is so altered from a normal state, or compromised by a physical trauma, that the literally can't form a rational basis to understand an acceptable action from an unacceptable one. These people are not criminals, they are ill, though society still needs to be protected from them. A criminal psychopath only lacks empathy, not the ability to recognize basic societal morality. A psychopath who kills someone knows that they are committing an act that has been deemed 'evil' and will lead to punishment if caught. They have the ability to remain law abiding citizens, and many psychopaths do as there are many vocational areas where their traits promote success. So if a psychopath kills, they are 100% responsible for the action and should not be shown leniency.
@WingsOfAltair
@WingsOfAltair 8 лет назад
There's a difference between having free will in thoughts, or free will in actions. It may seem like you have total control of your thoughts, but if you go down to it and take a lower level view over what's going on, the very atomic pulse fired up from your neurons is not something you can control. Therefore, yes. We do not have free will, unless you train yourself to be subjective instead of objective. Question everything, including yourself and your very own existence.
@mbavery1975
@mbavery1975 7 лет назад
This is interesting and may but I call BS on the general idea. The psychopath may not have a conscience based on empathy or emotion in the same way most people do but they still have free will. Instead of Uday Hussein choosing to torture and murder someone he could choose to do something (anything) else. He may not have any empathy for his victims but that doesn't matter. I have no empathy for the mosquito on my arm but I could choose to let it bite me instead of smacking it. Another point touched on in the video is how Uday Uday's upbringing may be a reason he shouldn't be blamed for his actions. I disagree. One's upbringing is to a certain extent out of his control but evil is more often a slippery slope than an on/off switch. Each of the little decisions we make every day pave the way for our future decisions. Our decisions and actions are often progressive. This is true for porn addicts and it's also true for serial killers.
@enjogior5489
@enjogior5489 7 лет назад
You clearly don't understand how psychopaths work.
@thiery572
@thiery572 7 лет назад
Uday Hussein had choice to suicide.
@MegaIkkuh
@MegaIkkuh 7 лет назад
and you're implying he should have killed himself?
@thiery572
@thiery572 7 лет назад
ohw well Mmm..... ;)
@bailiscremey8302
@bailiscremey8302 8 лет назад
Everyone is just a collection of particles and their positions in the future are predetermined by their original position. Why should a human have more free will than a rock? Both humans and rocks are collections of particles, and being more complex does not magically make these particles' future positions become determined by some spirit. However, this means pretty much nothing to us practically. This decision cannot affect our lawmaking or societal constructs logically as altering things because of this new knowledge would not be productive. At the level we observe, the complexity of the world must in some places be accounted to free will because of the sheer uncalculable depth of the physical system does not allow for any perfect predictions to be made. Free will and the Self are illusions of a collection of particles too stupid to understand reality.
@bailiscremey8302
@bailiscremey8302 8 лет назад
+Teddykiller24 Technically, quantum mechanics is just one way of modeling the universe. Many other non-probabilistic models exist. Quantum mechanics is by no means one of these "latest advances" in physics. Also, the wave function of a system changes non-probabilistically, although it itself is a probabilistic function. I fully agree that many of the lower-scale processes are probabilistic when modelled in quantum mechanics, and if we assume that quantum mechanics is the one end-all, fully accurate model of the universe (which we can't currently, as quantum gravity appears irreconciliable with quantum mechanics) it would be logical to assume this probabilistic nature acts at higher scales. This, however, does not entail free will. Randomness in physical process does not grant agency to the process itself or its constituents.
@DustinRodriguez1_0
@DustinRodriguez1_0 8 лет назад
+Bailis Cremey It's more than just a really large burden of calculation to predict such things, it is provably impossible. Read up about the "Three Body Problem". Even just 3 particles, interacting under only basic Newtonian gravitation, is fundamentally impossible to predict due to chaotic sensitivity to initial conditions and non-linear interactions. And we don't have 3 particles, we have the entire universe.
@bailiscremey8302
@bailiscremey8302 8 лет назад
+Dustin Rodriguez I know the three body problem. It's not really super important to what I was arguing, but... you go, guy!
@maulwurfsman4687
@maulwurfsman4687 8 лет назад
+Teddykiller24 Wrong! You cannot calculate some things, but they are still determinated.
@yusaltytho8234
@yusaltytho8234 8 лет назад
+MaulwurfsMan Determinated
@Spinner891
@Spinner891 6 лет назад
If a criminal isn't morally wrong for murdering somebody because their brain is wired a particular way, aren't I not morally wrong for accusing them of being evil because my brain is also wired in a particular way?
@ShabbaRankss
@ShabbaRankss 6 лет назад
Thank you.
@user-wr9hc6gf2n
@user-wr9hc6gf2n 8 лет назад
At 4:07 : We harshly condemn criminals, from murderers to paedophiles. I think this is so wrong. Paedophiles aren´t criminals, child rapists are. It´s just as if i´d say heterosexuals are criminals, even though they didn´t rape anyone. Being sexually attracted to someone doesn´t mean you harm someone.
@TheLady2luv
@TheLady2luv 8 лет назад
+Tozo Zozo Exactly what I was thinking. Glad someone else pointed that out, job well done.
@user-wr9hc6gf2n
@user-wr9hc6gf2n 8 лет назад
+KateRody If you know, that you will be hated by everyone or at least not accepted, you would never tell anyone about your preference and therefore can´t get any help. We have to talk about such matters and try to help, not throw them out of society so they isolate themselves and commit crimes. I tolerate them, being sexually attracted to children, but i don´t tolerate rape. You are born with your preference, so technically you are condemned and lonely for the rest of your life in such a society you are depicting.
@katerody4770
@katerody4770 8 лет назад
Tozo Zozo Oh, you understood me wrong and perhaps I did the same to you! I understood from your initial comment that you were against expressing disapproval regarding pedophilia, like we should consider it a normal sexual orientation and just go along with it. But your last comment gave me better understanding of what you meant so please forgive me for misinterpreting your words! As for my statement, I am most definitely do not encourage isolation or the attitude of not talking about such matters. I was just trying to point out that disapproving pedophilia do not confuse pedophiles into thinking their preference is a natural and healthy thing, therefore is beneficial. For example, if no one tells me smoking is bad for my health I might see it as a normal, healthy habit . Also, there is a difference between disapproving and hating. I can disapprove smoking but have smoker friends. I would let them know I do not agree with their habit, explain my reasons if they ask why I stand for it and encourage them to seek ways of getting rid of their habit. But I would never think less of them or hate them. However, I would be quite vocal if for some reason my smoker friends would get this idea that smoking is a natural healthy thing and try to teach their young kids to smoke. The smoking analogy can be applied to pedophilia. Hopefully this makes more sense...
@user-wr9hc6gf2n
@user-wr9hc6gf2n 8 лет назад
+KateRody :) Yeah, i think we understand each other now, but i would say, that it is a natural thing, but rightfully not socially accepted. Just like being homosexual, you are born with your preference and it is not a decision you make. Homosexuality brings no harm in our society, because both partners are old enough and understand their preferences. Pedophiles on the other hand are kind of screwed, because the people, they are interested in, just aren´t ready and have no mutual preference and interest, therefore bring harm to our society, if practiced. Starting to smoke is a decision, starting to be pedophile or being homosexual/heterosuxual is not a decision, so your analogy is flawed, in my opinion. Have you ever chosen, in what gender you are interested in ?
@katerody4770
@katerody4770 8 лет назад
Before addressing your comment, I just want to make sure this conversation doesn't turn into a fight because that's really not what I'm looking for. Just want to make clear that I'm not trying to troll your opinions and I'm not questioning your beliefs with ill intentions, rather I'm trying to educate myself on this subject by listening to arguments that are contrary to what I currently believe. By doing so, I will either confirm my current beliefs or change them and hopefully you get to do the same so it's a double win :) If this is ok with you, of course... Now addressing your statements. First, I want to clarify what I mean by "natural" so we don't get stuck in semantics: by "natural" I mean what is generally practiced and accruing in day to day life, without placing any judgement on morality or ethics. Since pedophilia is not a common sexual orientation, I placed it under the "unnatural" label. I would argue that pedophilia and homosexuality are not quite in the same category therefore should not be judged the same. Gender preference addresses sexual identity at its core when age preference is more of a secondary attribute. Like, if I were to make a list of who I'm sexually attracted to, I would first decide the gender and after that I would get into the specifics like age, height, skin color, etc. So I view age preference more like a choice than a predetermined characteristic; a choice that has more to do with what an individual focuses on. For example, some women are sexually attracted to old men but they can have happy sexual lives with men their age. Hope this makes any sense...? I would like to hear your perspective on this. Oh, you are right that my analogy with smoking is not perfect but I was emphasizing the attitude towards "bad habits" and not how they were acquired. I think it's important to acknowledge, discuss and find solutions for undesired behavior regardless how it came to be. Knowing the mechanism behind it's existence helps adjust the solving part but should not serve as an excuse to not take any action or give preferential treatment. I'm probably not the best person you could ask about gender preferences if you are looking for a categorical answer as I'm sexually attracted to both genders. But to strengthen my previous statement regarding why I don't think gender and age preference are in the same category, I can say that even I had no choice over being attracted to my husband because he was a male, I had a choice over accepting him as my life partner with all his specific traits (age, height, ethnicity, etc.).
@Lawlietftw30
@Lawlietftw30 5 лет назад
And here I expected for at least someone in the comments to at least bring up the concept of "souls." Other than myself, I haven't seen that yet.
@Chosenlifestyle
@Chosenlifestyle 3 года назад
Or God, Free will and what is determined go hand and hand one isn’t without the other. They both exist
@1984Phalanx
@1984Phalanx 7 лет назад
Well at least you admit that killers still need to be locked up. Whether it's free will or not you can't have people running around doing whatever they want when it hurts others or society would collapse in on itself. Some can be re-educated or "repaired" but others cannot.
@rvx5392
@rvx5392 8 лет назад
so we should let psychopaths do more bad things or we should stop them sending them to jail? we can't fix their minds at the moment
@chastitywhiterose
@chastitywhiterose 8 лет назад
+Reevix The video didn't say that.
@rvx5392
@rvx5392 8 лет назад
***** I know, but i'm saying the possibilities
@swaghettimemeballs4420
@swaghettimemeballs4420 7 лет назад
But you don't get it, empathy and our willingness to help others IS free will. There is no logical reason for why to help someone that you don't even know,(except for it feeling good maybe, but that's for another discussion) but yet we do it. Dude, free will isn't something that you can just simplify with todays knowledge of neuroscience. I've had dreams in my youth, where my brain would proceed to give me hints and knowledge on how to solve life-hampering problems. So here's ONE of my theories on how the brain works: there are *two* consciousnesses. I once had a dream that helped me get rid of all of my fears, JUST like that, it was a dream where i was put in hell and facing a MASSIVE wild boar, it came charging at me, but for no reason whatsoever i had the sudden impulse that staring it right in the eyes would stop it, and it did. As it turned around it said "you know me, now you are free!". My hopothesis is that this dream was induced by my subconsciousness to help me, and to give me relief of my fear. Even until this day, i rarely get afraid of anything, but back before then i was afraid of EVERYTHING. This isn't the only time i've had life-changing dreams, and i CERTAINLY hope there will be more times like it, because it really is a hint to that we're not all alone with ourselves. Btw ever had the sudden feeling when waking up that a whole lot of knowledge just passed your mind, but you didn't have time to remember any of it? Happened to me several times, and i think it's the brain trying to tell us that it's there and watching. If i'm the only one who's had these experiences, then i am truly a lucky man, because they have given me eternal wisdom and an unfathomable understanding of the human psyche. The human brain is the most technologically advanced being in the whole entire known universe, and trying to measure its capacities and capabilities with simple tests and instruments is just an insult to it's potential, it's like trying to fix a computer with hammer and nail: it's just too advanced for our tools, and we're not *there* yet. Stay open-minded, my fellow seekers of knowledge.
@LmaoOldAccount
@LmaoOldAccount 7 лет назад
I agree with most of what you said, just wanted to point out that saying the human brain is the most "technologically advanced" isn't exactly correct :p But mainly what I wanted to say was, thanks for pointing out that the choices we make, empathy, the willingess to do a thing and CHANGE what we feel like doing, according to the greater good (or don't), IS what we call free will. Sure, it could be said that then free will isn't "biologically inherent" or whatever, but the second great point you made is that we're not anywhere close to understanding the brain.
@savagetruthercritic8646
@savagetruthercritic8646 7 лет назад
Agreed Rasmus. Vlad, it depends on how you define technology.
@relationshipteachercom5387
@relationshipteachercom5387 7 лет назад
Of course there are various consciousnesses. They interact to form what we can call the self. Unconscious activities go into every conscious activity we engage in. People often report getting so fed up with an emotion and it stops wreaking havoc on their lives thereafter. I am never surprised by the power of individuals to determine their destinies.
@bakoe7604
@bakoe7604 5 лет назад
Rasmus Lundqvist Actually empathy is not something one can really control. Some people are just born without it actually. That plays into willingness to help aswell. If you never fel bad for anyone why would you help them IF they were dying on the road for example?
@lechienbleu4348
@lechienbleu4348 8 лет назад
Please don't equate pedophiles to criminals. Innocent people get killed because of that confusion. The truth is, many if not most pedophiles are not child abusers, and most child abusers are not pedophiles. I implore you to be careful in your choice of words. You certainly don't want be like me, mourning the death of an innocent 16yo friend, because of ignorance and blind hatred.
@TwoWayDeadEND
@TwoWayDeadEND 8 лет назад
+Le Chien Bleu The issue is that most people are so eager to inflict retribution that they don't even think about the difference between the feelings and the actions of others that are not the same as them.
@hornypervert3781
@hornypervert3781 6 лет назад
Le Chien Bleu pedophiles can be psychopaths, but the chance is not higher.
@Azhucabomb
@Azhucabomb 8 лет назад
Your videos are amazing!
@daredevilpwn
@daredevilpwn 8 лет назад
The problem I have with this video is that "Free Will" hasn't been defined. If my subconscious mind is making a decision and relays it to my conscious mind, well, my subconscious is still a part of me so subconscious or not, it is still me making the decision. I am my brain so if my brain is making a decision then it is me making the decision. So what I am saying is you got to clearly define your terms before making a video like this, clearly defining what "Free Will" is would be a good start.
@katerody4770
@katerody4770 8 лет назад
+daredevilpwn I think the person who made this video started on the assumption that the subconscious mind is like a computer program (predetermined and following the exact same algorithms every time). He refers to it as "wired brain". So he accepts the fact that the subconscious is part of "you" but he thinks it's rigid and predetermined and if you could genetically duplicate it and give it the exact same environmental input, it would make the same choices each time. To my knowledge, no one ever proved this to be true or even came close to proving it. So of course this video is faulty; it starts on a wrong premise and builds it's case on unproved assumptions.
@BlackSkullHeart
@BlackSkullHeart 7 лет назад
This doesn't actually defeat free will.
@BlackSkullHeart
@BlackSkullHeart 7 лет назад
ᅚ ᅚ ᅚ ᅚᅚ ᅚ ᅚ ᅚ The experiment was flawed. Even the man who performed the experiment said that it wasn't conclusive evidence of the defeat of free will. In fact they call it free "won't". The ability to consciously veto such decisions made by the unconscious.
@TheCHRONOSLIVES
@TheCHRONOSLIVES 7 лет назад
BlackSkullHeart the argument against st free will doesn't just say impulses are a product of genetic and environmental factors, but any thought, reason, and decision you've had since the moment you were born has been a result of genetic and environmental factors. Therefore any 'conscious' decision or reason to oppose or allow an impulse can be said to be a result of genetic and environmental factors. Everything that was ever gone on and will go on in your mind can be predicted given a large enough knowledge of the world you born into and a computer strong enough to simulate the extremely dynamic systems that are the brain and society.
@BlackSkullHeart
@BlackSkullHeart 7 лет назад
TheCHRONOSLIVES that's actually not true. For there are cases of abused kids that don't go on to abuse others, which was the previously held model. Also it's not impulses, it's also thoughts and emotions. He said it proves free "won't" not free will. You are mistaking cause with influence. All those things maybe influence behavior but they don't always determine it. Sexuality is an example.
@arthurobrien7424
@arthurobrien7424 7 лет назад
It's a little more extreme than that. Over 90% of the abused never beome abusers. The over 90% part is pretty true for all the bullshit explanaition for moral wrongdoing, thus pretty much universally defeating all of them. When talking about sexual abuse, in fact the correlation is literally 0.00
@savagetruthercritic8646
@savagetruthercritic8646 7 лет назад
That could be explained away by different genetic recombination but we have to believe we have free will or we are dysfunctional. Free will can be thought of as a function of the human mind regardless of whether it's objectively real or not.
@veritasluxmea80
@veritasluxmea80 5 лет назад
Recent studies actually show a Psychopaths' brain does light up when given images that would cause empathy in others. The problem is that it is the area of the brain related to enjoyment, satisfaction, etc. So psychopathic brains actually 'enjoy' or get a pleasure response to someone being hurt..........but if they logically understand it is wrong...then they are still choosing to do something that violates others Liberty which should have a punishment of some sort associated to the violation.
@ArjunPakrashi
@ArjunPakrashi 8 лет назад
A very important and precise point has been put up.
@gbaker1a775
@gbaker1a775 7 лет назад
I'm a firm believer in the illusion of free will as well. I talk openly about it with anyone when conversation flows into this space. It really amazes me that most people will not consider this as a possibility.
@klirsnichy
@klirsnichy 8 лет назад
Some of your videos a good but I did not agree here. The conclusions were to far fetched. Maybe you just wanted to give a thought example. But if so, I think you should have said that. Still I really like some of your videos! Cheers
@stllbreathnbut_y1844
@stllbreathnbut_y1844 7 лет назад
Love this video. Not enough people understand that free will is a lie. Everything we consciously think and do is predetermined by our subconscious thoughts, which are determined by our genes, environment/past experiences. Pull your heads out of your butts people.
@virtuosyc
@virtuosyc 7 лет назад
yeah sure, if everybody thought that way though, nobodys voice would matter because everybody could just justify everything they do wrong with "I have no free will"
@stllbreathnbut_y1844
@stllbreathnbut_y1844 7 лет назад
Kougyon bullshit. It doesn't mean we shouldn't punish people for wrongdoing.
@virtuosyc
@virtuosyc 7 лет назад
you didn't get my point lol. If we would completely disregard free will that could happen. How do you want to determine if someone did something wrong if it's explained as an "urge" like psychopaths have...
@stllbreathnbut_y1844
@stllbreathnbut_y1844 7 лет назад
Kougyon psychopaths still understand what rules of society are, and why people follow them. They may not care about them, and will break them whenever they get the urge to. but, they are human and have the ability to comprehend law and order. To be a part of society is to follow its rules. They have the capacity to understand that. Free will has nothing to do with it.
@stllbreathnbut_y1844
@stllbreathnbut_y1844 7 лет назад
Kougyon and even it they totally don't get it, and can't comprehend their guilt, we still live in a society. They need to be put away. They don't have to understand why.
@nowve666
@nowve666 8 лет назад
The last statement off this video urging us to practice empathy presupposes free will. If we don't have free will, whether we practice empathy or not will be beyond our choice.
@kokoro2542
@kokoro2542 7 лет назад
QUESTION: As for the button pressing experiment, why is that not free will? Why is the concept of free will limited to the one small area of your brain that governs consciousness, and not your entire brain? Your unconscious parts of your brain are still you, so I struggle to understand why it wouldn't still be considered your own will.
@Veagence100
@Veagence100 6 лет назад
People can be psychopaths that are labeled bad for their actions but it all depends how you carry things out. A person influenced in crime wont always do the same things too. It all comes down to the choices we make and we put up with life. For example: Living in a poor family household may push someone to be very successful in which they do Another ex: Psychopaths may resent side effects of being psychotic so they try their best to do things that are normal
@jerry-glenlovell8570
@jerry-glenlovell8570 5 лет назад
Definition of free will: the ability to do whatever you want. You can do whatever you want. You simply can't control what you want. But by the original definition we do have a form of free will.
@xavierhernandez2730
@xavierhernandez2730 7 лет назад
can I get your permission to use this video in court?
@ciaareinthecommentssection9575
People are too petty. It should be less about revenge, it should be about fixing the system. Justice is a dish best served cold, not hot with emotions and spite as if removing one monster will prevent the next. We simply need to find the monsters and make them disappear.
@VM0451
@VM0451 7 лет назад
I want the music.
@moiseswahnonmaman3694
@moiseswahnonmaman3694 7 лет назад
There is a follow up research that shows that if you prompt participants to decide again or change their mind, they become unpredictable by the same machines. And there is an entire issue with claiming the world is deterministic, because higher levels of physics currently can't show that as true for lower level particles. Can't argue with the need for empathy.
@sinclairsanguine188
@sinclairsanguine188 9 лет назад
People that are dangerous, like psychopaths, don't need punishment. They just need to be out of the way of "non-violent" society and in a place where they can go about their daily lives without risk of harming other people. We need prisons to be that place. More like a mental institution than a criminal one. I would even suggest giving psychopaths games like GTA V to play so that they have an outlet for their desire to harm other people, rather than have them sit in a room all day and plot how they'll kill one of the guards or something.
@gentlegoat6663
@gentlegoat6663 9 лет назад
Caleb English I'd suggest that we just place them on an island and let them live far away from our society.
@sinclairsanguine188
@sinclairsanguine188 9 лет назад
Not everyone in jail deserves to be on an Island full of psychopaths.
@gentlegoat6663
@gentlegoat6663 9 лет назад
Caleb English That's why we should be more careful about it.
@anniestaes430
@anniestaes430 6 лет назад
My thoughts exactly but it does not support the thought that psychopaths aren't evil. Their behavior is evil, controled or not...But i love the way how this info in taunting our view on choices. Thanks for sharing.
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