Action Machine Professional explains why you should use Non Greasable u-joints in your double cardan assembly driveshaft. Action Machine Inc, 574 287 9650 www.actionamachineinc.com
Thanks for the information. I'm definitely the type that likes the greasable joints. I am meticulous about doing my own maintenance and I like greasing up everything before a trail run (on the Jeep) and look for problems before they happen. I have been using them for about 20+ years now and have not had an issue. I fully understand your reasoning and it makes perfect sense for the average user that never crawls under their vehicles to do any maintenance. But for me, they work great and I like having the ability to grease, or in my case, over grease them.
I'm like you too and meticulously maintain my 4Runner, but the argument about the sealed U-joint bearings being machined to a more precise specification makes me want to go sealed. I started watching this video thinking "there's no way hes about to convince me sealed is better" and at the end I was pleasantly surprised and more well informed.
I wont use anything but greaseable. I went through three sets of sealed on my Ram 3500 before switching. No failures since - but of course, I grease them!
@@ScottDLR best bollocks with no logic is that non greasable will last longer then greasable but not greased... HOW? It work exactly the same when not greased🤣😂 Same amount of grease inside. Greasable ones gove you chance to flush them clean and replace with fresh grease. Old ones using same overheated junk inside... That's why heavy machines comes factory with greasable ones coz often grease replacement is recommended.
@@broskis80 The difference with the greaseable types (per local drive line shop) is that they don't have as good of seals because they HAVE to be able to release excess grease when your forcing them full. You can feel this when you take them apart for install. FWIW, I've actually changed my position and replaced everything with sealed. Time will tell!
@@ScottDLR yes and no. Yes coz in fact they have softer seal so when old grease hardened at edge it won't pop the seal. No because is tight enough that even her wash not able to press any water under so normal road conditions also won't. Main difference is that cross it self is weaker it self yes. But never had 1 cracked in my near 25 years being mechanic and near 20 years as a garage. That's why what we do is buy sealed ones. Fit grease nipples to each of the cup. Slot 1mm deep cross lines at each end of the main cross part. So you can flush old overheated grease with new and appreciate solid much stronger cross. Yes...so called sealed unit end seal will pass over grease from inside just ok without popping. 👌 We do that for the sake of having "better" modified UJs then solid sealed ones.
Hmmm... seeing as how I am the original owner of my 2005 Tundra 4x4, and it has 145k miles on it, and while changing the driveshaft carrier bearing today, I discovered my factory u joints (spicer) have grease fittings on them, which I NEVER greased in 145,000 miles, and they work perfectly fine... I will will have to disagree with you that they have to be constantly greased. By the way, I did grease them today before reinstalling the driveshaft. I know that nobody else greased them either because I do my own maintenance and oil changes. As far as strength, and ability to seal, I agree with your points. I will say though, I have taken my Tundra offroad a LOT, and drove it around through lots of water in Houston during hurricane Harvey (water was on the floorboard inside the truck many times) and my U-joints are fine, so the lesser seals obviously kept the water out. But all that said, I will replace them with sealed spicer next time. I will say though that all the 4x4 forums and hardcore 4x4 guys prefer greaseable joints because they said you just pump them full of grease after deep water, mud or whatever to purge the contamination out. They swear by greaseable joints.
Yeah, lots of misinformation and fearmongering in this video. I did a quick search and found factory recommended service intervals from 7,500 to 15,000 miles, not 3,000. Big rigs used to service them every 10-15,000 miles but now often go as much as 100,000 with the proper lube. The idea the grease holes weaken the part doesn't even match with physics and common practice. You can buy gun-drilled axles where the center has been drilled out to reduce weight, doesn't hurt the strength a bit. The center of a beam is the area of least stress. And the idea that the bearings are designed to be sloppy to allow the grease to squeeze out? How absurd is that? There's no way Spicer would waste money producing greaseable joints if they knew they would wear faster and cause NVH issues for customers. The problem with sealed joints is that they give a false sense of security. Those seals aren't perfect, contaminants will get in. It may not be a problem for 99% of the population, but if you get in mud, dirt, water regularly your grease will be compromised and the joint will suffer. That's why 4x4 guys swear by the greaseable joints, they can push that junk back out.
@@johnterpack3940 Wow you have not taken mechanics of materials have you? Shear strength is a function of the cross-sectional area. Put a hole in something and it reduces the shear strength. You might be thinking of torsional strength in which diameter is the most significant factor of strength. The difference in torsional strength between a solid tube and a hollow tube is nearly insignificant. I have always heard that non-greaseable u-joints are better and it seems that this guy with a lot of experience would agree with that.
I've actually had 1 scenario on I think it was an older ford half ton maybe? Idk honestly don't remember exactly the vehicle. BUT upon installation of the joints (greasables) the nub that sticks out for the zerk actually made the Cardone joint unable to operate and pivot in its rotation properly! Caused severe binding. Installed seals joints with no nub on them and tada no more issues! Just for for thought
My 2000 F-150 cardan u joint lasted 300,000 miles, they were the factory original non-grease type. I’ve decided to change them out myself both the front and rear shaft not due to any problems with them just out of precaution.
After more than twenty years of driving Jeeps off road, I still haven't made up my mind which type is best. My failure rates are mostly similar between both styles. I do agree that 'non-regreasable' joints with solid trunnions are stronger than joints that have been drilled through the cross, but as I have only ever experienced one broken drilled trunnion in hundreds of joints, I guess it depends on the driving style if that additional strength matters. The rear cardan joint on one of my Jeeps is close to the exhaust muffler. The underbody armour I have fitted prevents copious air flow to the joint and non-greasable joints fail early when I use them in the rear cardan because of the external heat source. It is difficult to say if I get as much as twice the life by using re-greasables in my rear cardan joint but they do appear to last longer when greased regularly. I was getting 5K to 10K miles before failure, before I switched to re-greasables. My front shaft cardan was lasting much longer. I have noticed that I don't always get good grease flow to all trunnions when re-greasing on the vehicle. I have experimented with flush zerks for re-greasing on the Jeep, but I now prefer to re-grease with the driveshafts removed. I use either conventional zerks that are small enough to not getting squished in maximum articulation or temporarily fitting a long zerk for the re-greasing process, replacing it with a threaded plug for normal operation when done. Re-greasing off the vehicle enables me to get a good seal with the nozzle and I can see the grease flowing from all of the caps easily. The added advantage is that I can wipe clean the centring ball seal and check it for damage and pump sufficient grease into the ball. I will do some more research on the 3,000 mile advice. I currently schedule a re-grease when I do oil changes. This is usually on a 7,500 mile or six month interval whichever comes first. If a zerk is in view and I have a grease gun handy it will get greased.
Some customers prefer greasable u-joints and if you get good life from them then that is great. The key with using a greasable u-joint is the obvious but often overlooked step - greasing the u-joint regularly. Sounds like you are very meticulous with your vehicle service which should get you good life whichever u-joint you decide to use. Thanks for commenting on our video!
Umm the sealed joint you showed still had the bearing end hollow. See video at 7:17. Maybe not the inner circle but i have never seen them fail there its always been the outside. Also the better sealing mentioned is nice but if you believe that seal will let nothing in talking going through deep water mudd ect your nuts. At least on the greasable you can pump fresh grease through and clean them. I do not believe there is a diffrence in the bering pins at least not in any of the ones i have replaced. An accurate statement would be a non greasable u joint is better if your not going to grease your joints because of the mentioned better sealing. Buys sesled if your not going to grease buy greasable if your going to grease. And buy quality either way that my opinion.
Interesting, my front axle U-joints finally failed on my 98 ram after 23 years and 218k miles, probably from factory. They're sealed versions. Long haul, occasional gravel, constant dirt road along with potholes. The first 70k served as an oil field truck. I need whatever these were haha.
Great video. Thanks for the great information. How strong are the double cardan u joints? I'm upgrading my 10 bolt rear end in my 71 Chevy Impala to a stronger 12 bolt posi unit but I'm afraid I might have a weak link in the drive line with that stock double cardan u joint on the driveshaft. Do you think that double cardan joint will hold up under higher horsepower demands or should I just reposition the pinion angle to accept a regular single u joint driveshaft.
"Tremendous" is a overstatement. At 3000 miles the joints do not take a leap to bad.. In fact if You don't cross streams and dip into lakes, pound through sand and the like, the joints can sustain without relube much longer than that. When a non servicable joint does any of the above, its a leap of faith that the seals did what they need, and You have no way to tell.
Greasable is my choice since 1972 . I would rather service my u joints and monitor their condition and while under my truck i can look at the power train for for future problems . Non greasable you do not know their condition until they start clunking and leave you stranded . U joints are rated by duty cycles they all fail sooner or later
Wow..! You need to do some more videos..these are very helpful. Also,..I would recommend correcting the spelling of the title for your channel...."Macine...?"
Action machine inc. I have a front end vibration and believe my front driveshaft is to blame. It's in a 98 jeep wrangler with 192k on the clock all original front drive shaft. So your recommendation is a grease able center kit vs non greaseable. Why is that? Factory is sealed and I know you recommend sealed u joints. Why not sealed center kit too? Wouldn't that last longer and be stronger?
The CV center is the most common failure point in a double-cardan setup. The CV head that we show in the video is an upgraded design that allows the CV center to be greased. The socket yoke and ball stud yoke on that CV head are exactly the same as the import CV with the addition of the grease fitting. On your Jeep drive shaft you would not be able to change from the factory sealed socket yoke without replacing the ball stud weld yoke also. So in your case it just doesn't apply, although I still prefer the ability to grease the CV center any day of the week. That being the case, a large percentage of people still will not grease the CV center even though they have the ability.
You have probably already fixed this, but the best way to test this is to remove the shaft and drive around. If it goes away, there is your issue, if not keep digging. I just did the front shaft on my ZJ (similar to your Wrangler) and I did sealed in the double cardon and greaseable in the front U joint. The reason why was the double carbon is hard to get to and I actually want an easy to get to "weak" spot. I primary do daily driving and light wheeling, but am always tinkering with it.
If my guys did not check and grease all joints when they did oil changes, they would not be working for me very long. I had one guy tell me he dose not do oil changes when he was working for me, it was his last day at my shop.
I completely agree with non greasable physically being stronger because its not drilled for a grease passage..and because the "average" driver doesn't maintain their vehicle meticulously & U joints & double cardans are overlooked even by the best. But owning a towing company & seeing mechanical failures daily... we maintain & inspect our trucks more often than most people buy gas. Grease is cheaper than parts... and unless you're running a built performance vehicle or racing with hard launches... or just driving like an idiot...then buy the solid joints. But maintained U joints rarely fail. Its also nice to flush out old grease thats been heat cycled & pump in fresh clean grease. Bottom line, if youre lazy, spend the money for the no maintenance joint... if youre a gearhead.. grease is your friend.
I don’t totally agree with this video info, n here is why. I have a 2003 Dodge Ram 2500 quad cab 4x4 diesel. When I bought it used years ago it had the sealed universal. They failed because there where no grease fittings to keep the needle bearing greased. However, I agree with you in the sense the grease-able u-joints are weaker due to the canal throughout the universal joint. You can grease then though whenever you’d like with the grease able ones.
I got the repair kit you talked about @ 4:22 Centering Repair Kit 404-0A and the seal 2-86-418 but You never showed how to tear apart and fix with new parts.
I'm looking at some of the fancy u joints now that have failed at 80,000 miles , and I'm putting greaseable type in 8 in total , new is not ! always better
As long as you keep the u-joints purged and well greased at the manufactures recommended intervals they should take you many many miles. The average daily driver dose not keep up with the extra maintenance that greasable u-joint require resulting in a much shorter lifespan. The paten for non greasable u-joints was filed almost 100 years ago, the technology has been well veted and proven its worth. Paten: US1612322A C. W. SPICER UNIVERSAL JOINT Filed July 5, 1924
Well done presentation. for the car guy you can get the greasable fitting and it will be fine. For the every day normal non car guy dip shit sealed is the better option . you know the guys who change oil when they change cars. the only thing they replace in the car is gas and windshield washer fluid in which half the time the idiot pours into the radiator by mistake.
Hi Matt, Premium Spicer non-greasable universal joints are not drilled through the cross. I can see how that assumption can be made in the video the trunnion hole is filled with grease. I have added image of a clean U-joint to our website for a better visual. www.actionmachineinc.com/pages/universal-joint-faq
Using a grease gun on a zirc fitting is the easiest thing ever. Tremendous is probably the wrong word. Marketable word for your end goal which is to sell your stuff but the wrong word overall.
Unfortunately not everyone maintains there vehicle at proper intervals and greasing there driveshaft seems to be a tremendous burden on there time... Fortunately we do offer a simple and effective solution, Non-Greasable u-joints and parts for the average consumer this is the way to go. We will continue to offer both option and leave the choice up to you.
Squeezing a little grease in a zerk is tremendous maintenance? Are you kidding? That is the easiest thing to do on a car aside from changing the air filter. 😂 the u joints in my 54 Willys Jeep are a minimum of 25 years old and may be older. I run them through sand, mud and water with no problem. A quick squirt of grease and they are good to go. I am also still running the original bendix joints in the front axle filled with gear oil with no issues. The moral of the story is I’ve never had to change a greasable u-joint. They have all been dried out crusty sealed joints. Both on my 05 dodge ram and the 99 Jeep Cherokee. I replace everything with greasable joints.
Unfortunately not everyone maintains there vehicle at proper intervals and greasing there driveshaft seems to be a tremendous burden on there time... We will continue to offer both option and leave the choice up to you. We are here to work on driveshafts, greasable u-joint are great for repeat business!
Total BS! It does NOT take "incredible amount of time" to lubricate a u-joint. I takes a few minutes to do all of them. Literally. Also, 100,000 mi "out of assembly" can only be impressive by ford/chrysler/gm standard. My 2004 4Runner with 250,000+ mi of HARD rural service, towing, etc. has perfectly fine original u-joints. The idea that u-joint should be lubricated every time oil is changed is completely ridiculous as well. I occasionally - every 15-20,000 miles lubricate mine, and they do not complain. Bottom line: BUY SERVICEABLE U-JOINTS AND - AGAIN - OCCASIONALLY - LUBE THEM.
Hello Woland, If everyone took the time to maintain the greasable u-joints like apparently you do, then you would be correct they would last considerably longer. You can look up the Spicer spec sheets the greasable u-joint is designed to be purged, the non-greasable is designed to be maintenance free and last for an incredibly long time. For the average daily driver we will alway recommend premium non-greasable u-joints, as greasable u-joints failure is one of the main reasons people bring in there driveshafts for repair and balance.
@@actionmachineinc.5341 My approach is simple: if Toyota uses greasable u-joints and all kinds of fords and chevy's don't, greasable is the way to go. In my almost 20 years in the field as a Mechanical Breakdown Inspector, I have not seen A SINGLE failed Toyota u-joint even though - as you correctly stated - most of them are never serviced. I just got a 2004 gmc Duramax for firewood and other household chores, and I am - once again - amazed what kind of crap detroit pukes out even though the truck that is supposedly a workhorse with just 130K mi is - by gm standards - in excellent shape but one u-joint has just been replaced, and others look like they spend an eternity in the middle of a junkyard so I am replacing all. I never paid attention before but a diesel truck intended for towing and other heavy duty functions has SMALLER u-joints than my 4Runners. I am not even talking about the fact that only Toyota - even on SUV - uses fixed 4-piston calipers while detroit trucks have floating 2-piston ones intended for cars... Unfortunately, Toyota is not allowed to bring its diesels into US. The official version related to emissions is a total BS - if ford/gm/chrysler can comply, so can Toyota. It's strictly political...
