For over 50 years, I have viewed the ONE picture in books of the Winchester revolver that resembles a Colt SAA. No one has ever given any details on its (1) design details or (2) caliber. Finally, 20 years ago I made it to Cody, and was able to view this gun in a case from 12" away. The one thing that I did learn from viewing is that the barrel & ejector housing are INTEGRAL! That assembly screws into the front of the frame. I presumed "that is how Winchester beat the Mason patents on elector attachment". But so many questions remain. How does the cylinder lock up? I hope it wasn't that fool idea again as used on the Colt M1878 DA! The one where the hand is SUPPOSED to rotate the cylinder AND lock it. So maybe like the Colt M1877 DA, a lock bolt comes from behind the cylinder? I knew George Madis, and many years ago he showed me some inked drawings on something like semiclear plastic. These had come from Winchester. One of those drawings looked almost exactly like the Colt M1878 DA. A funny thing about those drawings, was that instead of using +/- tolerances, the designer wrote "BE PARTICULAR"! I have often wondered what happened to those interesting drawings of Winchester's early revolvers. Anyway, I hope that you got to examine more details about that Winchester Single Action, more than what Cody allowed you to show in a video. You were not on "home turf", so it had to be somewhat uncomfortable trying to make such a video. JK
I knew that Winchester made some revolver prototypes, but I never saw any. Now, thx to you I’ve seen them and I’ve learned more about the whole story. The 1873 prototype was indeed hell ahead of it’s time. Too bad they did not manage to sign any contract with the army. Thanks again for this very interesting video and sharing with us your passion. Keep going.
I was there back in 1979 on the way back to NJ with my wife on a motorcycle trip. I honestly don’t remember much about the museum then, but can imagine it has grown over the years.
I think Remington had the best looking revolver with their 1858 Army. If Remington had transitioned to a swing out cylinder by 1870 the Old West would have looked different.
The later prototype with the Remington barrel and ejector is a very attractive revolver. Unfortunately, they didn't have an example of that one in the museum.
Wow, wow, wow! Thats really neat stuff! I had no idea there were two seperate periods of time where Winchester developed some revolver designs. Great informational video on some revolvers that the great majority of people, including me, never see. I need to figure out a way to visit the Cody Firearms Museum. Every October I drive past it on my way to hunt in the Idaho Rockies. I dont stop and leave the truck unattended anywhere because the back is always full of my camping and hunting gear. I just can't leave it unsecure.
@@thecinnabar8442 For the first time in five years I may not be a solo hunter this year. My youngest boy may go with. If that happens he can watch the gear at the truck and I can go in and check out some killer old west era firearms.
A great review of the history of Winchester handguns. A shame they never got produced. Those calibers (30-50 and 40-50) really sounded intriguing to me. Thanks for sharing Mark, see you next time on The Cinnabar!!
38-50 and 40-50, but yeah very intriguing indeed! I'd be interested in bullet weights and profiles. I'm trying to imagine the 38's ballistic CO behind 50 grains of powder.
My wife and I have been to the Buffalo Bill Center twice and we will undoubtedly go again. My main interest is the firearms and hers is the cultural and natural history side of things, so it's thoroughly enjoyable for both of us. And traveling by automobile from Oregon there's the added benefit of passing through Yellowstone coming and going.
RE: cylinder swings to right. It like the SSA was designed for left-handed use. In the late 1800's most militaries still considered pistols to be secondary to the sword and thus to be used in the left hand while the right hand was for the sword.
Could be. There were actually two prototypes in the museum. This one swings out to the right. The other one in the public display swings to the left. The designers had both sides covered.
Never seen one in person. I did know that Colt and Winchester had a 'gentleman's agreement" that Colt wouldn't build lever rifles, and Winchester wouldn't build revolvers. But still, they taunted each other. LOL Thanks for the video!
@@thecinnabar8442 I am *extremely* envious of your experience, Mark. Wish I could visit someday! I did have my 1892 lettered by them, and it should help increase its value when I decide to let it go to a new curator. Stay well!!
Pretty Cool Mark I’m Surprised Colt n Winchester Didn’t Have an Agreement About Pump Action Rifles Like They Did About The Revolvers and Lever Actions 😎😳😀
Interestingly, Winchester had no interest in slide action rifles or shotguns at that time. John Browning tried to convince them to make a slide action shotgun when they asked him to design the lever action model 1887 shotgun. Winchester told him they were committed to lever actions. Later they let Browning design the 1893/1897 shotguns that vastly outsold the lever action 1887/1901's.
Very interesting. I had never seen the later model mason revolver. Looks like a mix up if many revolver. The grip reminds of a rogers & spencer, and then a mix of what you said. Very cool.
Buffalo bill cody spend alot of time in my neck of the woods. Or desert I should say. He owned several mines and a ranch house that is currently for sale. People say he lost his hat out here. I myself have seen enough to belive otherwise. Great video!
Man I miss home. I just noticed some. It appears that at least ascetic wise that the new Henry revolver is going for this look. Which for me adds to my interest, especially if they add more than a .357 magnum catalog. Mountain man
A burger retailer here in Australia at one time sold chicken, then stopped. I think the big chicken retailer threatened to start selling beef burgers. For years, Kawasaki and Suzuki seemed like competitors. Forty years later, we know they're the same company. The big four Japanese motorcycle manufacturers had business sector agreements, IMO, so they weren't directly competing with each other. Those Winchester handguns look pretty high quality. That swing out cylinder one looks great.
Thank you Mark for sharing another fantastic and informative video with us. Question, were those examples Nickel plated? At first glance I thought they were stainless steel but that couldn't be. Thanks again. Stan
You're very welcome! The later Mason prototype has a brushed nickel finish, but the Wetmore and Wells model has a bright lustrous blue. The shine from the lighting probably made it look plated.
Very interesting about Winchester revolvers. I know the Cody Museum has some 1866 (Swiss), 1867, 1868 rifles manufactured in small numbers. Can you tell us anything about those?
Actually there are more than just Winchester prototypes that never went into production that in theory would be viable curiosities to the collector's market at some level. For those familiar with the "Steam Punk" fantasy fiction genre of things, such guns could prove very interesting collectibles indeed. Something real that would have given an alternate history had they been brought to market conjures up the novelist in me.
Of course, there are many firearms prototypes from various manufacturers that never saw production. I didn't intend to imply otherwise. Many of them are also contained in the Cody Firearms Museum collection.
@@thecinnabar8442 No, we were not taking this as just a Winchester exclusive at all. It was just the realization that the unproduced prototype category is huge and contains a lot of viable designs that could still be made for the hobby and collectors market.
I'd love to make one of those early prototypes. They have the drawings at the museum. Maybe someday if I ever retire and have some time on my hands, I'll give it a try. Thanks for watching and commenting!
I wasn't really prepared for them to let me swing the cylinder out. Later, it occurred to me that I should have showed it up close. Thanks for watching and commenting!
I do, but I've got more work than I can handle so I'm only taking on a select few interesting projects that might be of interest for our viewers. Our contact info is on our website: WWW.CinnabarGunworks.com
