Zero IQ Take 

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Everyone knows that the "legend" in "Legend of Zelda" is about the little box that tells you what the map icons mean.

I've seen too many people complain that the timeline "isn't canon" because it "doesn't make sense." I can't imagine where 99% of story telling would be if everyone gave up on story the second you had to solve anything for yourself lol. Thanks for making a video on this, Bandit.

I personally love a timeline. It’s world building. Connecting dots, seeing purpose, evolution, and a story, all help me immerse myself in these games.

My favorite Zelda game is Majora’s Mask. Not only did it help me in a rough time, but it’s just such a beautifully designed game

So, jokey post from earlier aside: the downfall timeline *does* make sense. When Zelda sent Link back in time, she weakened the fabric of spacetime, and because the Triforce was split, each piece ended up with a timeline that it's wielder "dominated" over. The Downfall Timeline is the Power Timeline.

My favorite Zelda title is Twilight Princess. I still remember when I was watching my older sister play it and when I saw that you can play as a wolf my dog-loving heart was like, "This is the best game ever."

And about what you said of Zelda as a franchise already having restrictions, but having room for creativity is so true in the sense that a link between worlds had so many inovations to the zelda formula while still functioning and feeling like a zelda game

I've never understood the people that argue that Nintendo never wanted a timeline, or whatever similar argument they make, when there is so much proof that that is not true

My favorite Zelda game is Majora's Mask. And Bandit, yours opinions made my feelings about Tears became more soft and understandable. Because I was very conflicted about TotK. It was the first Zelda that I did not want to make 100% and I couldn't understand why. But after your first vídeo, I could understand what I was feeling and now I am trying to make 100% of the game. So, thank you so much. Great video as always.

If Nintendo didn't use to care about the Zelda-timeline, then they wouldn't have filled their games with references, they wouldn't have made Twilight Princess Link the direct descendant of the Hero of Time, Ocarina of Time wouldn't have been the back-drop for Windwaker, they wouldn't have clearly stated that Skyward Sword was first in the timeline, you wouldn't have had any sequels that follow directly after another game (Majora's Mask, Phantom Hourglass, Twilight Princess, etc.), and much more. The Zelda-timeline USED to matter... My opinion is that the Zelda-team should focus more on the timeline again, as the story is important for enjoyment of the game. My favorite Zelda-game is Twilight Princess BTW

Nintendo's Zelda team is simultaneously too full of themselfs and too self conscious about the timeline and lore of the series,

I think they had an opportunity to use BotW/TotK as a vehicle to restart the timelines if that's what they want to do. Hylia is the goddess of time after all, so it could have been part of her divine plan to have the timelines split and then converge at the point of those games. This would essentially mean that Demise was successfully "defeated" by being bound in an endless cycle and relegated to the original timeline, while creating a new timeline with no Demise or Ganon. I kind of thought that's where they were going before the release, actually. The symbology of TotK's Ouroboros-esque logo (could be interpreted as one timeline consuming and overwriting the previous, for example) and things from all games appearing in BotW/TotK seemed to be hinting that that was the case...but I guess it was just memberberries after all. Oh, and Windwaker is my favourite, btw.

Many people don’t know, but “STORY” is basically ALL we had at one point. To say there isn’t a story/they never cared about story/a story couldn’t work in Zelda- it’s all just complete nonsense. Back in the day before the swarm of social media and the internet, people relied on story and lore IN THE GAME to get information. It wasn’t a necessity but Nintendo and the Zelda team leaned into this so much because it was working. It’s why there’s a timeline, it’s why there’s a giant theory/analysis community. Bandit himself has done extensive research on story alone in the Zelda series. This isn’t including characters, setting or anything else in the games. Why it sucks to hear the opposite of this is because it’s not even an opinion, it’s just wrong and ignorant. Some people have put years of their life into the fact that there is a legitimate story to tell in the Zelda franchise. It’s just weird to hear. I still laugh when people say things with zero thought, experience or research. What’s next: “Mozart didn’t care about music?” “Bruce Lee didn’t care about martial arts?” “Dogs never cared about bones?” The end

Do you think Nintendo should drop the Zelda Timeline, or try to fix it in future games?

My favorite Zelda game is Wind Waker, I'd like to see a remake of it and add the ability to explore under the sea and see all of Hyrule kinda like a reverse TOTK Depths.

Something I didn’t know until recently was , ganondorf dragmire and the imprisonment of him was addressed in ALTTP in the booklet I couldn’t read as a young kid around then and did not know that

It’s a little ironic that they talk about the timeline limiting their creativity when the sky islands and depths are almost all copy and pasted.

You know. I think Tears of the Kingdom is an especially unique case because the entire game was billed as a sequel. Forget about the timeline - many games in the series seem to tenuously connect at best. But when the game is supposed to be a sequel and it feels so disconnected from its predecessor, that's when things get a little frustrating. I made a video about this where Tears of the Kingdom doesn't feel like it expanded on Breath of the Wild, just retold it with better gameplay.

I really do appreciate these types of videos. It's nice to see a Zelda content creator that doesn't sugar coat their thoughts on a game. Not saying others are disingenuous, but you come off as extremely genuine.

My favorite Zelda game is Ocarina of Time. You nailed it. They could’ve done both but they decided to be lazy and use the same exact formula as BOTW, instead of just creating an entirely new experience on the expanded world of TOTK. They could’ve added more temples, it didn’t have to be 4. They could’ve done more than just keep it to the same 4 challenges with the 4 different races in Hyrule. I would’ve loved a legitimate temple in the sky islands. I will say that I loved this iteration of Ganondorf. He looked insanely cool and the last fight was epic. I do agree that they completely messed up the story with him. They could’ve easily tied it in with the timeline…but once again, decided to be lazy and coast on the success of BOTW. I loved TOTK and had a blast playing the game. It’s still my favorite game of the year but I’m glad that it didn’t win because Nintendo needs to realize that they just can’t be lazy and coast off the back of a previous game.

Honestly... I think at this point, Nintendo should just do a complete reboot of the entire Legend of Zelda franchise. Maybe create a game that starts with the origins of the goddesses and the triforce and go from there because right now, as great as the games are individually, collectively the Zelda story is an absolute mess.

My favorite Zelda is Twilight Princess. Also I completely agree with every point you make. The reason as to why Twilight Princess is my favorite is because of how it was able to reference past games. The fact that Oot Link is the one training TP Link is amazing to me. It makes me appreciate that understanding the lore is important to the overarching story. Totk has been the first Zelda game where I dislike the story. BoTW had an okay story but I still liked the idea of an apocalyptic depiction of Hyrule. Totk doesn’t have that charm like BoTW and the story is lacking because of it. Also the fact that the Master Sword breaks drives me insane. Disrespecting the story that you wrote is such a crazy concept to me. If you feel limited then it’s time to move on.

*Reads a quote about how Nintendo cares about the timeline* Bandit: "Nintendo doesn't care about the timeline"

Aonuma summed it up perfectly: this franchise is about puzzle solving, so of course, entertain the idea that its lore is also a puzzle of sorts.

One of my favorite things is the fact that in the ALttP booklet, the picture of the Sacred Realm reeealllly kinda looks like the Sky Islands from Tears of the Kingdom.

My favourite Zelda game is Twilight princess. My biggest issue is that they had the perfect start to the game. Ganondorf mentions Rauru, recognizes Zelda and Link, and even has a chest wound and cracks his neck on awakening. They had all the ingredients to run with the continuum right from the get go, and they didn’t. All new Ganondorf, no mention of the triforce, botw is basically forgotten, different RAURU. The gameplay could have still been the same, just explained better. Still in love with the franchise, currently playing hurdle warriors definitive edition.

As far as what they do with the timeline I want them to release something that clarifies the BOTW and TOTK stuff and then we can go from there with whatever it is they have planned next ( They recently said in an interview theyre done with the BOTW/TOTK style Zelda games)

Someone like you would be awesome for writing a Zelda story. I imagine you think within the constraints of the timeline and lore when coming up with theories, and I’m sure you’ve realized this too. Some of your ideas you’ve theorized have captivated me and left me disappointed with the result of ToTK that we have today 😂 Edit- my favorite Zelda game is twilight princess

My favorite Zelda Game is…..Skyward Sword. The story behind it has always drawn me in, and it has some of my favorite dungeons. Plus, maybe it was weird to some, but I always REALLY loved the Silent Realm trials. And it’s just got some of the best twists and plots of the story

My favorite Zelda game is Twilight Princess. I really like the idea of the timeline being another puzzle for us to solve. Some of the best memories I've had about Zelda's story is talking with other fans about how the games fit together. It starts a conversation, and conversations among fans can only make a world's popularity grow. I mean look at Five Nights at Freddy's and how many times those fans make a new timeline of events for it. That was what it was like in the Zelda franchise before Hyrule Historia gave us a timeline, and that is how I want things to be again.

My favorite Zelda game is A Link to the Past! ^^ Thank you for explaining your perspective on this, and your work in general! I think that I agree with you for the most part, which is that devs should decide if they want to focus lore from the beginning. I definitely agree with that. We’ve seen so many game series’ stories fall into themselves because they’re clearly being written on the fly and that just doesn’t work anymore. The part where my perspective is different is that I think I’ve been growing up seeing these Zelda games the same way that I see the Mario series. Same title (1, 2, 3, lost levels, world, etc), same protagonist, same characters, etc. They are their own, mostly self-contained stories. There are bits sprinkled in here and there, like where Bowser didn’t start wanting Peach romantically until Super Mario Sunshine. And they’ve included in the story since then. But there wasn’t an origin story or something for it. And there is no pressure for a timeline connecting Bowser’s slowly blossoming love for the princess (though I’d be invested. Hahaha). I remember the Zelda series in that way. I understood them to be their own separate stories. And even with the devs talking about connections, I never saw evidence of a larger overarching narrative that the series itself was heading to conclude. But I would also suggest that games, their lore, and “connective lore tissues” only started being held up to a microscope since, like, Game Theory and the whole “LOOOOORRRRRRE” thing exploded. It makes sense to me that the Zelda team is in this mess. Before, it was enough to say that games were connected and only have small callouts here and there. It really sucks to say this but my generation of gamers didn’t give much of af about lore and overarching narrative. My gaming world was filled with people giving you crap because of what console you liked. And it was all about the graphics and the tech instead of the experience or story. You can also see how it affected Nintendo too. Yes, they still created fun and good games, but after their competitors popped up their thing (gimmick, maybe) has always been tech-focused. So when they finally released a timeline, I don’t think they really expected people to care this much about it. The people who make the bigger decisions like that are the ones who are used to their audience caring about technology. But the gaming world and its audience has expanded tremendously. And now that tech is mostly as good as it’s going to get, people are talking less about graphics and more about stories and lore. And with TotK you can see that Nintendo is still behind on the times. I really hope that, with your video and others’, they can see a bit more of what their audiences want. And instead of staying frustrated by it (which is how those fan-blaming comments come off), I hope they can pivot and we see some beautifully intricate games from them soon. (If you got this far, thanks for letting me share my perspective. I’m so fascinated to see how video games have grown and I’m so happy to see these new generations of gamers focusing more on storytelling and demanding more gameplay innovation. I have a good feeling that we’re going to see a flood of great games soon with the focus on these aspects!! If there are other good essays on this topic please share! I enjoy seeing what’s going on in the gaming world!)

Personally, I like to think of the older zelda games as being stories people tell in the canon of BotW and TotK. That way, they can all still be part of the same universe while not introducing continuity errors. Kind of like what we have with the Trojan war. The Trojan war was a war that really happened, but the stories that exist about it are fictionalized. Other examples might be the Romance of the Three Kingdoms or old Japanese ghost stories. Of course, this is just my personal post-hoc justification, but I think the only way to have a cohesive zelda universe is to accept that not everything that happens in every game is the literal past of hyrule.

It's sad that Kirby has more consistent lore then Zelda.

i think the timeline split in oot can just be seen as the fallen timeline is when its game over and you stop playing.

In recent times I've become much more in favor of having several smaller continuities. Basically only connect games where it makes sense to do so without having it create inconsistencies and retcons. For example: (SS, Botw, Totk) (Oot child, MM, TP) (Oot adult, TWW, PH, ST) (Alttp, Oox, LA, Tloz, Taol) (Albw, TFH)

I actually disagree. It’s obvious that fans didn’t force Nintendo to create the timeline, that had that for years before it was revealed. But it’s also true that their philosophy is gameplay over story. I didn’t like TotK’s story because it all but discarded the canon timeline and felt more like a tribute to Zelda rather than a canon entry. Is there stuff we just don’t know yet that could be explained later? Most definitely. That doesn’t make some of their choices less infuriating and in spite of the existing canon.

I get this. It'd be like saying all Mario, Mario kart, Mario sports, and Mario parties are all on some continuous timeline that's supposed to make sense and somehow explain Bowser going between "friendly" and villainous. If there's not a clear timeline with everything then don't say there's a grand timeline. Explain with alternate dimensions in all non-clear connected games. Just throw in a line about how someone did a ritual to resurrect Ganondorf to explain him showing up again. They already successfully did that in a handful of games. Like make this start pre-skyward sword and have a line showing Demise spawning out of the oozing malice/gloom housing the soul of Ganon or something. Or a line that Rauru and Sonia are re-founding the lost Hyrule kingdom. So many easy ways to let it "fit"

Please don't support Temu, they're not to be trusted

My favorite Zelda game is Majora's Mask. If people take a moment and review the stories from the various games, they'll understand why fans are very passionate about it. There IS a semi cohesive timeline, all the way back since the 80's. Zelda stories regularly paid homages to previous titles and even acknowledge them (Majora's Mask and Wind Waker tying to Ocarina of Time, Spirit Tracks calling back to Phantom Hourglass and Wind Waker). Twilight Princess had TWO Links as blood relatives, with OoT Link being TP Link's direct ancestor. It was also imply that ST Link is related to WW Link (I may be misremembering, though. Its been years since I played Spirit Tracks). These games regularly call out to each other prior to BotW, and saying they are "legends being misinterpreted" shows a lack of understanding of the lore. There is no arguing the mess they made with the timeline though. The Downfall Timeline should've been its own alternate reality where the timeline never split, rather than being slapped on haphazardly. Its ok to not have everything in the same continuity. BotW and TotK are basically their own beasts that are better off being their own canon. Alternate Universes (AU) are a fun way to experiment with the world and its characters without butchering the original canon. Going forward they could focus on just doing that if they feel boxed in by the timeline. Make new lore, new histoies, and new outcomes. Even if its not always cohesive, Zelda has always had simple but effective storytelling that set it apart from the likes of Mario or Donkey Kong. Its a tale of wonder and fairytales with many different meanings that make these games that much more endearing to the community. Hyrule feels like a second home that fans are a part of and who wants to learn its history, as silly as that sounds! :)

My favorite Zelda game is Wind Waker! Even as a child it immediately appealed to me and it still resonates with me, flaws and all because of its storytelling and aesthetic both visually and as an adventure. The phrase needs to be “Nintendo REGRETS the timeline” instead of that they never wanted it, especially since the new games have no official involvement with the canon timeline. Makes it even funnier too that they forced Ganon/Ganondorf into BOTW/TOTK if they “don’t like being restrained creatively by the timeline”. Because at the end of the day there’s interpretive storytelling that opens the door for lore and theory crafting and then there’s lazy writing, and even as a fan who loves theory crafting, I don’t want to do their work for them.

My favorite Zelda game is Skyward Sword. Love this video, and great job providing clear evidence that, once upon a time, they did care about following a clear continuity. Not sure what happened with Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom, they could have worked really well story-wise honestly if they had been set in a new land, not Hyrule, and the villain hadn't been some permutation of Ganon but someone new. They wrote themselves into a really weird spot, and that never needed to happen.

This is what I mean when I say BOTW/TOTK fans aren't the same as Zelda fans bruh how can someone unironically say Nintendo never cared about the story??? I'm not even a Zeldahead and I think that's cap 😭

Mario games all have similar titles, continuity references, and even hints to future games and yet most of the internet will tell you that Mario has no canon I just find that interesting lol I think the difference is that Mario is silly so most people aren't as invested

You can just say "ratatoskr" LMAO

My favorite Zelda game is, Twilight Princess (GameCube), because it was the first one I actually bought for myself. All of them are great, but that holds a special place in my heart for that specific reason.

Great video. Personally I think that they should either keep the timeline stuff as it is now, or focus a bit more on it (Not actually answering more questions, but moreso avoid active contradictions - because as you said, fans can fill in the gaps as long as the game isn't actively against it). Even less focus on lore would be sad ;-;

My take is as someone who grew up with the original legend of Zelda and was blown away by the first 3d game with OOT, I loved theorizing about the lore and unraveling the mysteries. I also like when they tried to connect the timelines with Hyrule Historia. So I would like them to continue to build onto that story. But I can understand not wanting to box themselves in so they can continue to make games forever like Mario. However I do care about Zelda different than Mario and I’m still holding onto hope that there will be future games with great stories and not just new play functions.

My favorite Zelda game is Twilight Princess. I made my own canon for Hyrule and now its the setting for my D&D campaign

The only real beef I have with the timeline is the 'fallen' split. It just doesn't make sense for oot to have a fallen variant when the others don't.

My favorite Zelda game is a toss up between Twilight Princess and Majora's Mask. I think the Zelda team is done with the Era of the Wild just as much as the fans are at this point (it's been almost 10 years since BOTW Link was revealed!). Really looking forward to what's next in store for Zelda, ironically the series needs something really fresh again.

I think they honestly enjoy it. I think the creators love to see fans talking about it, picking apart their game and cross referencing it with old ones. One of the mainstays of Zelda is it’s relationship with time, and that is never going to change, so the conversations are never going to end. I’m perfectly fine with being a little more lax about it, but it’s still so much fun to theorize and gather all the information you can like a little info-fiend.

It's like the whole graphics vs gameplay debate, except now it's graphics vs gameplay vs story. The argument is you have to choose between them, but I never understood why they have to be exclusive of each other. 🥴 With the time between games, you can put in time equally. I'm sure the people writing the story aren't integral in creating the mechanics. If so why isn't there another department? Idk 😵

im working on a theory bout Ganondorf but i do mention something bout the timeline in it, and this is from the script. "I theorized Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom that we play exist in a separate Alternate Reality Parralel Reality from the OG timeline, where all the games from the OG Timeline still exist but are remixed and altered. . Somehow it splits at Skyward Sword but point is, the events we see in Tears of the Kingdom is a Alternate Parallel Reality similiar to the Many-Worlds Interpretation Theory or like The Elder Scrolls Dragon Break except the "Convergence" part is a seperate timeline mirroring and dirstoring the Original. Think Lorule being a mirror of Hyrule, or Termina and its people even. Its a rebooted timeline where the old games are just reordered and remixed to make something new yet vaguely familiar. " I did make a video but i still kinda suck at making videos i think some people thought i meant the og timeline convergences at the end when that is NOT what i was meaning in my Timeline theory video. lol TLDR I think its a Reboot Timeline, and i got a long way to go to get as good as you! You inspire me man! Keep up the great work!

Even if one chooses to make games for experience rather than story, story is part of the experience.

I like your discussion and response. I think dropping the timeline would work here; why restrict themselves with a timeline. We’ve already got a pretty good picture of thee events, and I’m good with wherever the series goes next. My favorite Zelda game is Ocarina of Time, but I love them all

My favorite Zelda game and then your favorite Zelda game. Agreed with absolutely every word, from start to finish, other than the part about you being a rambler; this was very easy to follow. Guys like Zelda Lore who have gone into every last possible minute detail in ways I never even came close to back when I was a timeline theorizer have done infinitely more with the Zelda timeline than Nintendo ever will, and I'd love for Nintendo to leave us to it.

I don't think they care ANYMORE, but they definitely SHOULD care. Connections to previous games shouldn't have to be HUGE as to not gatekeep(unless it's a direct sequel. TOTK needed to spend a lot more time than it did connecting Calamity Ganon and Demon King Ganondorf), but if EVERY game is a reboot, then things might start to get stale. Take for example, Ganondorf. The main villain of the series. Every game before BOTW/TOTK had the same Ganon(except FSA), just different iterations of him across resurrections, escaping from seals, and timeline splits. Then TOTK comes along with a new Ganondorf, claiming that "Having to maintain the connection to previous stories will limit our creativity", yet the origin to this Ganondorf is VERY derivative of the one in OoT. A male was born into the Gerudo and crowned King due to Gerudo custom, he went mad with power, faked his allegance to Hyrule in order to steal a powerful artifact, and attempts to take over the world. Ocarina of Time's story was BUILT around this, even the presence and EXISTENCE of the Gerudo were built around Ganondorf. In TOTK when they restarted Ganondorf from scratch, they just did everything from OoT but worse. The Gerudo's connection to Ganondorf is completely irrelevant, and he abandons them once he gets the Secret Stone. The only reason TOTK Ganondorf IS a Male Gerudo in the first place is because he's GANONDORF. But then, take the other games in the timeline after OoT with Ganondorf as the bad guy. Despite being the SAME Ganondorf from OoT, they're used in MUCH more unique ways than TOTK Ganondorf was when compared to OoT Ganondorf. If they ignore the timeline and start Ganondorf over from scratch every time, then they have to write the origin story again and again and again without being able to do anything new without being unfaithful to the character. If they use each of Ganondorf's appearances as a part of a larger timeline, then he can change overtime during and between games, causing each of his appearances to be new and unique. OoT Ganondorf, WW Ganondorf, and NES Ganon are all the same person, but they're all very unique iterations OF that person. Now, they could still change parts of the story every time to make things different, but if they changed things up TOO much without connecting to other games, then they might end up taking it to the point where they aren't being very faithful to the series, and where they might end up being better off if they made the game a new IP instead of a Zelda game. For example, I think TOTK Ganondorf would have worked better as a Shiekah, since they're a unique race instead of one of the many nations where you have to fight Divine Beasts and find secret stones. Then also because of the Yiga Clan and because of Shiekah technology being used by Calamity Ganon in BOTW. However, Ganondorf as a villain IS a Male Gerudo. At this point, it would make sense to just make it an entirely different villain, and to have other new villains who work better with the story you want to tell every time you make a new game. At THAT point, it would ALSO make sense to drastically change lots of other lore elements to make them fit with the story you're trying to tell, until eventually the games you're making aren't even Zelda games anymore from a lore perspective. Just a bunch of completely different and unrelated open-world puzzle-centered action-adventure games where you can turn into a wolf in one game and ride on a giant bird between floating islands in another. The connections between the story in each game is what ALLOWS these games to keep being Zelda games, while also having such unique ideas and settings. If there WAS no story connection to other games, then the people making the games would have to choose between having each game be somewhat basic and very similar to one-another(especially from a story perspective), OR to have the differences between entries set each game apart so much so that they can barely even be considered a part of the same series anymore. So in conclusion, keeping the timeline intact doesn't limit creativity in the Zelda franchise, it PERMITS creativity. And they should keep that timeline intact before the stories in this franchise either become super derivative or barely even Zelda anymore.

the restriction thing comes a lot from the way that they make games, from past interviews and other reporting that we've known. They never start a game thinking "let's make a game that takes place at this time period", instead, the developers there are working on random prototypes of gameplay ideas with just non-descript shapes and 3d primitives. When they get something that they think they can make a game about, they'll start making the game. Only way after when the game is well established gameplay-wise they think about how to put the game in the context of a story (and even what series the game will even be in), historically they decided where the game fell in the timeline after all of that was decided and they'd put the game where they think it would fit the best given what the end result was. So if for example, they want to make a game based in a mechanic that somehow contradicts the events of past games, they'll just ignore it and do the mechanic anyway, that's the point that caring about canon would restrict them, it's sort of a big deal because the scenario is the last thing they decide so it can't limit things that came before and force them to redo and rethink any sort of gameplay idea that has already been decided, it would make the development process really frustrating.

They probably did care about the timeline and may even still do, but at this point they may as well not care at all (they should definitely stop acting like they care). When even the direct sequels have almost no connection to their immediate previous entries, outside of superficial elements that don't impact the story AT ALL, then they are essentially rebooting the series with every entry. This is obviously true of TotK, given everything that game threw out from BotW, but really it's the same for Majora's Mask and arguably even Zelda 2. These direct sequels can be played without the knowledge of the previous entries, and could be considered standalone games if not for their sequel status. I don't know about you guys, but if a series is essentially rebooting with every entry, then that's not really a series to me. BotW teased that they were possibly going to change the formula and focus more on the overall story, or make a renewed focus on unifying the story, and the announcement of TotK as a direct sequel practically sealed the deal. But TotK threw all that out the window and proved they were going to continue with their soulless reboot format. That makes the disappointment doubly frustrating. I've said it repeatedly and I'll keep saying it: as far as managing the overarching story, Kingdom Hearts did it better.

The fallen timeline I believe is better explained as the timeline that came from the 7year gap where link never was present because he skips back and forth but never visits

It is absolutely bonkers that for a series with almost 30 games, we know almost absolutely nothing about any geographically adjacent nations to Hyrule. The few that come up like Koholint end up not even existing in the end. Hyrule has more convoluted parallel realities and alternate universes than geographic neighbors you can physically walk to.

I’m with you Bandit 👏🏾, there’s no excuse to spam the same cutscene 4 times after each dungeon. So much potential from all the lore in breath of the wild. Tears of the kingdom fails as a sequel in my opinion

My favorite Zelda game is Minish Cap I agree with so many things you said, I really hope Nintendo just goes back to OoT/MM times where they just do games and let fans enjoy fan theorizing and putting the dots together. Half the fun was coming up with the story untold and sharing findings with others, this whole full spread of things kinda takes away from the experience of observation and discovery, which imo is a core element of a Zelda game

Bandit, you also have to keep in mind the fact that Nintendo at their root is a PLAYING CARD COMPANY. And when you play cards, you keep up your Poker Face & don't let anybody get a peek at the Cards in your Hands. Some of what Nintendo says about this subject is like KFC guarding their secret spices. They WILL NOT tell you fully how they make games because those are valuable trade secrets. Nintendo experiments wildly with The Legend of Zelda series BUT they are also very deliberate with each choice in that series. They plan out things much more than they let on. But they don't want the general public to know that. A card player keeps his/her intentions close to chest only revealing their moves in surprise as they slap their cards on the table. How much do we see Nintendo's love of the surprise factor? It's the same thing, I'm telling you. If you study Nintendo enough, you'll learn that they like to move quietly & sneakily. How many people have caught on to how Nintendo quietly pushed Sony out of the Japanese market, huh? The grand majority of people think Sony chose to deemphasize the Japanese market on their own. No, Nintendo quietly shifted the country into a Handheld Console-First market when Sony thought they conquered Nintendo with the original PlayStation. Nintendo used Pokémon in the 1990s to set the stage for their revenge. Once Sony caught on, they tried to challenge Nintendo with the PlayStation Portable walking right into Nintendo's trap. The DS dominated the PSP & the creation of the PSP only underlined the importance of the Handheld sector. Once PSP failed to 'elevate portable entertainment out of the handheld gaming ghetto', Sony put out a successor called the PlayStation Vita-complete with a cartridge format (how ironic seeing Sony's PS1 discs caused trouble for N64 cartridges). What did Nintendo do? Killed the Vita in the crib by taking Monster Hunter (which began on PSP) away from them. It's a total reversal from how Sony took Final Fantasy away from Nintendo in the N64 days. Full circle. Sony vowed to never make a Handheld Console ever again after this thus ceding the Japanese market all to Nintendo. Sony fell into 2 traps actually. They fell for Microsoft's plan to pedestal the "Western" market putting them squarely on Microsoft's turf. And let's keep in mind that Nintendo of America is surrounded by the Microsoft complex in Washington. Are Nintendo & Microsoft working together to dismantle Sony? Don't be surprised. Nintendo is VERY sneaky. The content in the Zelda series is no different. There's a lot of intelligence behind the game-making & storytelling there. It's not all planned out at once, no. But that's the beauty of their design. They leave it open-ended enough to recontextualize things later on. Each game has a self-contained story that you can enjoy on your own. But each game also has lore links to other games in the series even those games that seem like one-offs in lore. Think about A Link to the Past. How in the hell can a Master Sword (with Silver Arrows) conquer one who has the entire Triforce in his possession? We didn't think much about it because we were having fun beating the game. Well we wouldn't get insight on that answer until 20 years later in Skyward Sword. The Master Sword has the essence of 4 Golden Goddesses inside of it. Din, Nayru, Farore, Hylia. The Triforce is only the essence of 3 Golden Goddesses. Din, Nayru, Farore. The Master Sword is a failsafe in case the Triforce ever got into evil hands. That's why Hylia devised her Master Plan the way that she did. She had herself in her mortal incarnations in Zelda. AND she had a hand-picked paragon in the Hero who wields the Master Sword. 2 against 1 each time. Quite an intelligent plan from the Goddess of Time & Light, wouldn't you say? Perfect plan against the one who conquered Time itself, the Bringer of Demise. The blue glow in the Master Sword was there in its first appearance in A Link to the Past. We saw it again in that epic fight in Ocarina of Time against Ganon. Skyward Sword showed you who that glow was: Fi. The broken world of Lorule without its complete Triforce has parallels to the broken world in Twilight Princess, don't it? One of the Triforces is stuck in a Twilight Realm. World stays together if Triforce is complete in Light World or Sacred Realm. World wasn't broken in A Link to the Past because the Dark World is just a corrupted Sacred Realm. You don't think they plan this stuff out? They most certainly do. And they like to play this game of cat & mouse with the fans. Can you see past the card player's bluff? The metagame of Zelda is just as important as the actual games.

My favorite Zelda game is probably A Link to the Past or Ocarina of Time, in part because of nostalgia, but I think A Link Between Worlds was the perfect melding of handcrafted adventure and open-ended exploration. They got it so right and then threw it all out the window. Also I once saw a great theory about how the Fallen timeline is actually a logical split like the other two. The gist of it is that young Zelda's prophetic dream about Ganondorf was actually a message sent back in time by the Fallen timeline's princess Zelda, after Ganondorf won, and that's what made the difference between Link succeeding or dying.

That comment about how TotK's ancient past could have taken place before Skyward Sword sort of killed the series for me. That single comment. I've been a fan of this series for most of my life, fostering a love for its love and world since I was a young child. Ever since my parents brought Hyrule Historia home to me. I knew that the devs created the timeline and played loose with it, but this is kind of where they ended up losing me entirely. I think they should drop the timeline if they believe it holds them back, and if they no longer want to deal with it anymore.. but I also feel like not getting official answers makes it more frustrating as well. More disagreements about theories will end up cropping up, especially in smaller forums.. and it already begins to feel as if there are massive arguments currently ongoing. Being a fan of this series just isn't fun for me anymore. It sucks, given that this series held a very deep place within my heart.. but I feel like this alone cut the rope that held me to enjoying everything Zelda-related. I'll probably check out the future games, but besides that I'm kind of just not enthusiastic for the future of the franchise anymore.

My favorite Zelda game is Majoras Mask :D Honestly? When it comes to the timelime, I liked the approach of putting all of it into an "Ancient Myths" category, where they just left things be. Simply as they are right now. And hey, sure, start over with BotW and TotK. But explaining things would add quite a bit to the experience. Because especially TotK was mad lackluster in every way, when it comes to the storytelling. And not just from the story itself, but also from the enviroments. But who knows where they'll go from here.

There are AT LEAST 10.000 years worth of timeline for Nintendo to place new Zelda games. There is nothing "restrictive" about such an amount of time. Nintendo is just lazy.

Not caring about the story ≠ not caring about continuity. Zelda fans have to understand that

The Downfall Timeline makes perfect sense. We CORRECTED history in Ocarina of Time to prevent the outcome of Lesser Hyrule starting from A Link to the Past. Ganon already won in the backstory of A Link to the Past. All Hyrule's Sages could do was lock him in his realm. The problem people have is that YOU DON'T SEE the events leading from Link's loss to Ganon. That doesn't bother me. It seems to bother others. But the way it was done forces you to think. You gotta read between the lines. You never see Gerudos, Gorons, Kokiris in Hyrule in any of those Downfall Timeline games. Link ALWAYS has a Yellow or Yellowish band around his cap in that Downfall Timeline. It's like a Halo, isn't it? The Imprisoning War was one of the worst wars in Hyrule's history. It genocided multiple races all at once. The vaunted Hero died here & his spirit being reborn is marked with the Halo on the cap. The hallowed Knights of Hyrule are decimated in this war. The Zoras are poisoned by the bloodshed & darkness. And the outcome of that war made them turn on the Kingdom of Hyrule as enemies. Nintendo HATES to have us see Downer Endings. That's why Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity didn't show the Champions dying but instead being saved by an interference through time travel. Only fanfics like MajorLink's 'A Hero's Purpose' can cover these dark periods of Hyrule's history. The Imprisoning War is DEPRESSING & Nintendo likes to "put smiles on people's faces". We'll never see that war in-game. The 16-bit graphics obscure the fact that A Link to the Past is one of the darkest Zelda stories in the series. If I had the equipment, I would depict this story in an animation to detail how dark it truly is. The Downfall Timeline & its eventual fate is RICH for more storytelling. I wanna see them make a game after the events of The Adventure of Link one day. Can Link restore Lesser Hyrule to its former glory? Can the Little Kingdom of Hyrule become Big once again? I even want to see a Modern World Zelda take place after the events of Spirit Tracks in the Adult Timeline. The technological Hyrule Kingdom in Breath of the Wild's backstory is a hint to this scenario. The timeline split ALSO gives Nintendo room to make games with different scenarios & styles. It's not just for lore, it's also for marketing. Most 2D Zeldas take place in Downfall Timeline for a reason. Unified Timeline, Downfall Timeline, Child Timeline, Adult Timeline, Converged Timeline. 5 different areas to build different types of games in. Nintendo knows what they're doing, trust me. The Official Timeline STAYS.

My favorite Zelda game still is Twilight Princess, this still the most epic story the franchise has ever seen, akin to legends like LotR, the hero's journey that Link goes on still my favorite, the stakes, the characters, even the edgy visuals makes for such an amazing experience, and altough TotK Ganondorf's fight is probably his best one, TP Ganondorf fight is pure gold

Come on...not the Temu😭

What the devs don't understand is that "restrictions" help creativity. It's nature. It's restrictive to have a timeline of events to adhere to and not contradict, but now you have a well grown tree of complexity, growing countless branches you can creatively jump from and graft together. For an example just looking at Ocarina of Time, there's so much creative potential to work with. Who is the Dessert Colossus? What sins did the royal family commit using the Shadow Temple? You could even connect those together. Reading this you probably are making theories in your head. Was the Colossus a mortal Gerudo? A Martyr? A Pagan Goddess? Din? Could the Shadow Temple be a buried site of a genocide long ago? Could it have been a response to the actions of the "Colossus?" Or the other way around? I'm just talking about two events referenced in one game. Imagine how many other creative combinations there are out there. A coward looks at this and says "Explaining who that pagan idol is? Ugh, that's a restriction. Wait in an old game we said the good guy kingdom was also guilty of evil? Ugh, more restrictions, just wipe it all away so we can have a blank canvas to just… keep that way"

I feel like they truly wrote something, that Totk and Botw fits consistently, they just don't want to answer questions about the timeline, so they say some wierd stuff, maybe 10 years from now they will release the new Zelda timeline including those two games

My hand-wave, make-everything-make-sense answer is that we read more into the "legend" part of the Legend of Zelda and interpret each game as living out the storytelling of an elder to the youth. Of course it has inconsistencies and is all over the place at times, but it explains the recurring elements everywhere, too. And all of it is based on the storyteller's real experiences or the stories that were told to them.

If Nintendo never gave a fuck about the timeline they would have never made Skyward Sword. Period.

My favorite zelda game is either BotW or Skyward Sword. I got into Zelda during the pandemic, I was like 12 or something and I was enthralled. Skyward Sword was the second game I ever played and I fell in love. I unfortunately haven’t had the chance to play classics like Ocarina of Time, Majora’s Mask, Twilight Princess and Wind Waker, because I don’t have a wii anymore and the Nintendo 64 pack is just too expensive right now😢

I will blame the fans a little bit on this. They could just have a timeline for what happened after ocarina and leave it at that. But the fans insisted that the games that weren't under that split be included. So Nintendo created the fallen timeline as the last ditch effort because of those demands. But I will agree with you. They should drop the timeline entirely and just let the fans interpreted how they want

I think Nintendo explicitly doesn't care about the supposed timeline, they care about the stories of their individual games, but expecting one Zelda game to directly relate to any other is a kin to expecting the same from Final Fantasy

My favorite Zelda game is Link to the Past and the oracle games. Link to the Past has some great music which is one of my favorite things from the franchise

Bro is destroying the TotK fanbase

I really think we are going to go through a "dark age" in zelda. This is off topic but there is a reason why games with puzzle based dungeons and bosses are called "zelda likes". They created their own genre. But botw/totk are not zelda likes. They are generic but well made open world games. Its been 13 years without a new mainline 3d zelda game. Thats sad for the classic style fans.

My favorite Zelda game is ocarina and I think as the first 3D Zelda that still doesn't correct or ignore the lore that came from the games before it, it shows that it is possible to be creative and work within the confines of pre-established lore, it may take a little extra effort but it is worth that effort.

My favorite Zelda game is Twilight Princes! It was my first Zelda game and I really loved the darker look and theme. I hope we get to see something like that again but I also hope they carry the tech theme on to another game if it's not the next game. I've always wanted to see an industrial boom in this series and how that would mix with the magic of the world. It could be a great opportunity for a more in depth story telling through the environment as well an chance to bring new mechanics and gameplay styles. Steampunk Shika/ Zonai tech with a Twilight Princes art style PLEEEEEAAAAAASE!!!!!!

I wish people would give the 2011 timeline more credit. The Fallen Hero Timeline is the product of Triforce lore and time travel logic They wrote multiple sequels to a prequel about time travel leaving them with 3 "endings" to a story that only had room for 2 "We don't want to restrict ourselves" is just shorthand for "Isn't Wind Waker cool? Forget ALttP, Twilight Princess is pretty dope huh?"

There is a lot about TOTK that I enjoyed. Something I wished was delved more into which is a relatively significant matter in both games is who exactly is Misko? Being a bandit notwithstanding, how did they wind collecting a massive amount of merch? How was it that they were so traveled? Were they human, male or female, Goron or Zora, Zonai or some other group?

5:09 a final fantasy 7 remake-style remake of ocarina of Time would be absolutely unbelievable. I KNOW Nintendo can see how well square enix is doing with the final fantasy VII remake right now and they have to be salivating at the prospect of taking one of their biggest games and doing the same exact thing

My favorite Zelda Game is Spirit Tracks. Although the DS Games were not that popular, I love the worldbuilding of having an infrastructure in hyrule that "limits" you to one way of movement (boat in PH or train in ST), but then incorporate that into the lore and the gameplay. I would love to see a Zelda Game set in a more modern era Hyrule with pre-built and upgradeable vehicles. Something that makes Hyrule feel more like a lively and blooming economy. Also I love trains...

Funny you mentioned Star Wars, because Star Wars and LOZ are suffering from the same syndrome right now. Two franchises I've loved since childhood currently leaving nothing but a bitter taste in my mouth. Betrayal IS the perfect word. Because all of that time, love and care, at this point, does feel like wasted time. I don't mean I would have been better off without these franchises in my life, but I mean, my investment in their futures has changed drastically. By the way, my favorite Zelda game is Twilight Princess and ALTTP.

My favorite Zelda game is Majora’s Mask. Personally I think the common denominator in Nintendo’s timeline problem is fujibayashi. Every game he’s directed has something scandalous with the timeline and he even admits he doesn’t understand his own continuity or how real history works.

I see Zelda as a legend (ba dum tss), like every story over time details change or are lost and each person tells the same story in different ways, there are changes but the essence of the story remains

I feel like the Zelda timeline was super valid to me when I played WW, for the first time. I felt the beginning could’ve possibly referred to OOT, but I wasn’t certain cause it was just vague enough, but then when you get the master sword they literally show you the same sages from oot in glass mirrors in the same room. That’s not just an Easter egg it’s something intentional they added to an important location in game to tell you it’s the same universe.

My favorite Zelda game is Majora's Mask. I've always loved the dark, unnerving tone that game has, and also how grounded and lifelike the characters were. It easily made me way more invested than any game I'd played before, Zelda or otherwise, and honestly most games that I've played *since* as well. I never understood why people didn't like the Anju & Kafei sidequest back in the day, that quest broke my heart and was easily my favorite, and an easy thing to point to in order to explain why I love this game so much. Now, as for the topic of the video. I am so sick and tired of hearing this drivel. "They never cared about the timeline. The timeline was never even real. Stop acting like it matters. Get over it." The same stupid discourse for over half my life. Why don't y'all shut the hell up, stop acting like we're "enjoying Zelda the WRONG way" like that's even a thing, and let us just have our harmless fun?? Whoops, too late, it's dead now. Good job, assholes. Honestly, I hope Nintendo never touches the Zelda timeline again. TotK already made me stop caring. I can't see it getting any better with anything else they do.

I think what they mean by not 100% continuity is things like the water temple. Every game has one, a lot of times in the same location, but they are all too different to be the same temple. So, what the hell happened? Well, game design

My favorite Zelda game is Link’s Crossbow Training. Game of the century, the franchise couldn’t exist without it.

Hey, don’t we not like temu??

My favorite Zelda game is, Major's Mask. Like you said, if the Zelda timeline is not important to nintendo, let the fans make their own, or if the series does have a timeline, they should make a timeline with the past, present, and future games that are seen as cannonical. With the whatever chronolog(ies), worlds, realms, etc they want in it. Either way, they need to do something.

My favorite Zelda game is Wind Waker HD. The reason is while the game cube version was good once you experience the Swift sail, the bigger starting wallet, getting the deluxe picto box earlier, being able to get 12 figurines at once, and only having to get 3 three Triforce chats, while the rest of the Shards are already there. You can't go back. As for the timeline, it's hard to say. I think having a fallen timeline may not have been the best idea. I think maybe they should have the fans create their own timelines, which can better explain how Zoras and Ritos can both exist.

Tears of the Kingdom, as a stand alone Zelda title, is a good game. If you didn’t play Breath of the Wild for hundreds, if not thousands of hours, that is. Because as soon as you think of the former as the sequel to the later, TotK not only becomes complete trash ; it also becomes a gigantic letdown which ruins any semblance of credibility the Zelda franchise ever had, especially lore-wise. And this, my man ? This hurts my feelings. Because I used to love Zelda and the many stories of Hyrule. I was invested in your theories too, but when I noticed you made fewer and fewer of them, I thought you also got massively disappointed. Speaking of disappointment, personally, not even Sonic 2006 came close to disappoint me as much as TotK did. At least I got it for cheap, I knew what to expect of it and it didn’t made me feel like I got conned 70 bucks by a gaming company I used to appreciate. Next time a Zelda game will be announced, I will expect a cartoonish, Mario style, childish recycled game with an irrelevant story and valuable gameplay only. Like legit, the only real pro of TotK is Purah for me lol. I got TotK in may, finished it in not even a week, then archived it. Four years of waiting for such a lame story in the same map and such small novelties 🥲