The Nacra jumped on the foils quite easily even in conditions below 10 knots. The reason being is that as soon as the boat comes out of the water it creates its own wind. But I guess below that the Tornado has the benefit of the bigger sail area and less drag because of the missing foils. The Nacra was never fun to sail so my guess would be that at 25+ knots one could beat a Tornado but the skill level to do so is 10 times higher and the crew on the T could enjoy themselves while the crew on the Nacra alswas has to deal with a boat that's trying to kill them.

But it's interesting why the foiler is faster. Because there's no huge difference in boat speed. But the foiler more or less sails straight downwind doing the same speed. BUT one mistake and you drop off the foils and it takes ages to recover. Honestly we had way more fun sailing the F18.

The video is almost 4 years old. The other catamaran is from the type "Tornado". It's a racing class. The boat the camera was on is a foiling Nacra 17.

Thank you for your comment. I'm really glad someone is still enjoying this old content. All the best!

We both wanted to know who's faster and if I recall correctly the Tornado was training for the worlds. The chap is a decent Tornado and F18 sailor.

@born2sail No need to sail against one another to know who would be faster, if one boat is foiling and the other isn't. This is not a fair comparison. One doesn't compare a catamaran to a monohull neither... but it is fun and good for the ego of the N17 crew 🙂 to beat such yesteryear design and sailing concept (that I love).

Actually you're overestimating the capability of the foiling Nacra 17. It's very hard to sail quick and one mistake, one drop off the foils and even an F18 is faster. The Tornado sails a little bit slower but more steady and it's easier to handle. Over the years we had many little comparisons with this Tornado crew, F18, N17 C-board and the full foiling N17. The last one was the only one we won. @@flyer9

That's just how you sail the boat in race mode. We just copied what the top guys are doing. Also the N17 is a very scary boat to sail so going faster in high wind conditions isn't what you would like to do.

Actually the weight is almost the same. The Tornado has a wider beam and therefore more righting moment and also much more sail area. You don't really need much sail area to go fast because it also means more drag, so in theory the Nacra should be faster. But it's also more difficult to sail and it all depends on how many mistakes you make. Also a problem with the N17 is that you're going pretty much dead downwind. With a Tornado or F18 you have a bigger chance of catching a gust.

17 is the length in feet and it is faster than tornado because of the modernity of the hull + the foils.

The hulls are 17 feet long and yes, it's a lot faster than a tornado. A foiling cat does sail different. With a normal cat you simply can bare away when sailing downwind. If you do that on a foiler you go swimming. Everything needs to be in balance.

I've planned to get one more video with all the information out. Since we started a new channel and the last year has been very busy I never found the time to finish the two videos and now it's easier to make a new one with the informations. If you are interested in our new project: ru-vid.com

Thank you! If you like that content you probably also like our new channel about the restoration of an 82ft steel sailing ship: ru-vid.com

We wanted to start making videos in that direction but bought a 25 meter ship instead. Always wished to continue with competitive sailing but it costs a lot of time and money.

@@born2sail happy sailing then. (The other idea would have been quite a hit though, there is no channel specific to nacra/catamaran sailing in all youtube)

@@luismesagrave Unfortunately not many people are interested in competitive or high performance sailing. From inside the bubble it seams big but not many sailors know the names of sailors in other classes. No money, no media coverage. At the beginning of this channel I thought that's because there is none. But 10 or 20 years ago it was better! I feel sorry for the few guys really interested in the contend I was making. But it took me 65 videos to get 80k views. On my new channel I have 400k views with 25 videos and almost 10k subscribers. It shouldn't sound like I'm not grateful for every subscriber but at the end I need an income to survive and I couldn't see a way to make a living out of competitive sailing or with this channel.

Glad you enjoyed it

With the kite up you sail a much lower angle and sail a better VMG. Without it you can sail faster but that's scary. The N17 is 2,6 meters so a bit too wide for European roads but just right for the US market. The crew dance is for the fine tuning. With the daggerboard rake you set the amount of lift you need and you can handle. More lift or more speed means that the crew has to stand more forward. A puff of wind or a high wave then you want to fly low, and since things are changing constantly the crew has to run a marathon sometimes. But the goal is as little movement as possible. I think windsurfing and cat sailing complement each other. When there's to much wind for the cat usually it's perfect for surfing.

I'm glad you like my videos. Yes indeed, foilers are very tricky to sail and all that just for a little bit of extra speed. It takes o much practice to have the boat somewhat under control and even then the conditions that I would consider fun are limited. If you are not willing to spend most of your days in a wetsuit trying to tame the beast you'r better off with an F18. If you are a mixed team, dreaming the olympic dream, Nacra 17 it is.

@@born2sail I'm 63 now and too old for that. Although I'd give anything to crew for an afternoon on one....provided the skipper knew what he was doing! I've already taken too many trips around the forestay! Being on the wire while foiling must be an astonishing ride. Much smoother than a traditional cat, I assume. I think at this point I'd be fine simply sailing the Prindle 18 off the beach. Keep it simple yet, still fast.

On the foiling N17 we always used both daggerboards. There is no practical way of lifting one board or have the boards in a different position than fully in. When I speak of "reducing daggerboards" or "take away the daggerboards", I always mean the angle of the boards and not the amount of how much is in the water.

Thank you so much! I promise I will publish the two missing parts. I just bought an 80ft sailing ship and had a few very busy months with registration and all that. The two parts are almost finished but I need a few hours to get back into final cut and then I can put them up here. Unfortunately I can't tell when I have these few hours.

@@born2sail 80ft!! What happened to your N17?!

@@davincifpv3983 The N17 is stored on the big boat. I wanted to sell the N17 but watching the few races at the games I knew that we where on the right way. I think we gained a lot of the knowledge how to sail the boat in the last weeks sailing the boat and actually after that as well rewatching the onboard footage. I still have to get my knee fixed before I can really think of getting back on the cat.

Unfortunately they are still on my hard drive waiting for the last few hours of editing. We just bought a tall ship and it's quite a project. The only thing I can promise is that part 2 and 3 will be published. I just need one or two days off for that project and I haven't figured out when that will be. Probably in 2 or 3 months.

@@born2sail Oki, thank you :)

@@niconnerie I hope the waiting period is not too for you. But as you see I respond to comments, so if you have any questions connected with foiling, sailing or catamarans please ask.

The trick is that the boat only starts to foil if you and your crew are standing in the aft position and the boat is sailed flat. That gives you the maximum control over the boat. Then increase foil lift a tiny bit and first let the crew control the boat by running for and aft. Next step is to try to control the boat with the mainsheet. More heel mens less lift. The last step is to combine those two controllers options. The faster you go the more stable the foiling gets. Sorry for the late answer.

Thank you very very much. I hope to get at least some foiling hours next season. I couldn't sell the boat after watching my own videos.

The N17 is faster upwind and downwind compared to a Tornado. At least above 10 knots. The reason for that is that the leeward daggerboard provides lift when sailing upwind. The faste you go the more "weight" you have to keep the mast upright. It's called skimming.

Back than you hoisted the kite from the trampoline? Personally I am not so sure if foiling is the best thing for our sport. It takes so many hours to get it somewhat under control and still it's dangerous. Barbara and I thinking about switching back to the F18. Almost as much fun but in a wider range of conditions.

@@born2sail Yes, we hoisted the kite from the base of the mast and the kite was stuffed into a bag in the front center of the trampoline where I would hoist the kite. Where do you hoist the kite now? The last time I sailed was on a Laser in The Flight of the Laser's in Newport Beach, CA. I was first to the first weather mark, second to the second weather mark, fifth to the leeward mark and tacked early for the finish so I had to tack twice again and another guy was right there but he beat me my about twelve inches or so. I was heavy for the down wind but was really fast upwind. This was about 15 years ago. I want to get a Schionning catamaran and sail the tropics. I still have a Nacra 5.8 but it doesn't have a kite. I'd like to set it up with a kite before I sell it. I'd like to use it one more time to get the G-Pro video footage of me single handing the boat on a windy day. We didn't have the ability to take video back then. I get what your saying about the set up and over powered rig. I had a Tornado in the late 80's and then I sold it for a Nacra 6.0. The 6.0 was a little too much for my light frame of build so I eventually got a Nacra 5.8 which had much less sail area making it much funner and there was a much larger class to compete with. Now, pretty much all racing cats have kits but the only boat that I sailed on with a kite was the Nacra 6.0.

Thank's for your comment! I will upload part 2 and 3 for sure. Currently we are in the buying process of a big boat. And unfortunately there is not really enough time to edit the videos. Sorry for that!

On my boat, it seems the best thing to do is sheet in hard

Thank you so much. In fact you are the reason why I bought a second GoPro 🤣 Have you any Tornado racing planned this year?

@@born2sail Hopefully the worlds will be in September although it does seem quite unlikely if all nations can't get there. Fingers crossed.

@@JoyriderTV Let's hope for the best. Also I wish you a relatively normal season in Greece. Fun fact, in the year of the Olympic Games back in 2016 the Nacra 17 European championship where scheduled in Greece, but was canceled because a lack of competitors. This year, also the olympic year, the Europeans are scheduled in Greece, just one week after the Kieler Week. I got a feeling about this 😀

Danke dir! Und auch ein großes Danke, dass du uns immer mit Kommentaren unterstützt 👍👍👍

Thank you very much. Unfortunately I haven't sailed a 3 point foiler like a Nacra 20 FSC yet. Or do you mean fully foiling on a 4 point foiler like the Nacra but slightly heeled over? I think about heel as a way to adjust the lift, not really as a basic foiling mode. I will certainly cover that topic when I make a video about how to foil and not kill yourselfe. By the way, what was your biggest sticking point when you started out on the foiler?

Danke für deinen Kommentar. Segelst du selbst ein fliegendes Boot?

I am glad you found the video helpful. We never went negative. About 0 is the minimum rake. We used different foil settings on two occasions, one was sailing upwind, where you don't need more lift on the windward hull and second was in weavy conditions where you reduce the lift also on the windward hull. The reason for that is that you don't jump if you accidentally loose the heel of the boat. But most of the time, especially downwind you can use the same setting for both daggerboards. You can start you search for the optimum setting like that: The boat should only start foiling when: 1. both, the crew and the helmsman are at the back of the boat 2. and streched on the wire 3. and the boat is completely flat. 4. Rudders should be at 0 or just a tiny bit lift. That gives the crew plenty of hull to run forward. Also you can easily reduce the lift if you heel the boat by working with the mainsheet, or by simply bending over your upper body. Furthermore if you have ventilation on your foils or the boat jumps, the impact is way less dramatic if your crew is standing behind the daggerboard. If you follow this procedure you have maximum control over the boat and the ride hight. I which someone had told me that earlier. It took me 3 capsize videos to figure that out. 🤪🤣😂

@@born2sail That's very interesting, I sail a foiling A class, and I have always had slight negative lift on the rudders. I have tried with positive lift, but I found the sterns were popping out too early and I needed a lot of lift on the main foils to combat this. With the setup I have now, I find I can foil the boat with minimum lift and maintain high foiling mode in winds around 20kts. I've never really tried a safe foiling mode, however since I sail on a lake, I've never felt I needed to. Great video, and I look forward to the next one.

@@julianbosch1214 To be honest, with our rudders we couldn't go negative. The adjustment range just started very little more positive than 0. So it could be that we just adjusted our sailing mode to the possibility's the N17 had given us. But in general the better the teams the more lift they have on the rudders. But that could be an upwind foiling thing as well...