Yes exactly, Ratatoskr willingly ignored that Godefroy, (who is likely Godrick father or big brother) was part of the first wave of attackers of Leyndell, that simple fact destroy this video completely) One should not craft a theory while ignoring half of the lore. It's just useless and time consuming.
Some evidence that may help your case that Goddrick could’ve been involved: the posture of the Godwyn icon under stormveil is the same as a corpse in a relic weapon(Sacred Relic Sword and Fingerslayer Blade) as if someone attempted to create a weapon from that bit of the corpse. So a loose theory could be that part of Godwyn was severed from his main corpse, brought to Stormveil, experimented on to make a weapon(which sounds exactly like the kind of heretical power Goddrick is searching for throughout Limgrave) and that is the sin that caused the thorns to spread. Not to mention, Goddrick had no problem usurping Godwyn’s title of “The Golden” and using it along his own name. Shows that he probably had little to no respect for Godwyn left by that point, I doubt he’d care much to use his demigod corpse for his own strength.
That might be the reason why he held a grudge against Godwyn. Maybe "Golden" is a title that only the eldest from the Golden Lineage can hold. So he killed every other member of the Golden Lineage so he could become Golden.
Speaking of a piece of Godwyn. The user CaptchaCouch commented that he thought the corpse under Stormvale originates from Godwyns flayed face or skin. Since there is a sealed room in the castle containing the Godslayer seal and prayer book there is some merit to it.
Speaking of a piece of Godwyn. The user CaptchaCouch commented that he thought the corpse under Stormvale originates from Godwyns flayed face or skin. Since there is a sealed room in the castle containing the Godslayer seal and prayer book there is some merit to it.
If the eyes of the ones who were punished were gouged out, and that is the reason why they were able to see the blood star and use its power; then that could also be another reason for why the Godwyn corpse in Stormveil is connected to the blood star. It doesn't have any eyes. Unlike all the other instances of death root where you can see copy's of his eyes sprouting up all around.
Hey Ratotoskr. I don't know if you have already taken this into account, but on the subject of how godrick might escape where even Godwyn was killed, the description of the Mimic Veil might suggest he used it to escape. "When Godrick was hounded from Leyndell, the Royal Capital, this was one of a multitude of treasures he took with him. Also known as "Marika's Mischief"." There is also a voice line from Kenneth height where he says "Honestly, Godrick’s no more than a jumped up country bumpkin. Lord? Don’t make me laugh. First he hid himself amongst the womenfolk to flee the capital, then hid from Radahn in that castle… " This could imply he used the mimic veil to make himself look like a woman to flee.
I feel it was because Godrick stole a piece of Godwyn's body, a holy relic, and hid it below the castle where it grew into a new face. He escaped the night of the back knives with the mimics veil. It says he used it to escape the Capital directly in the item description, so we knew he possessed it. I doubt Rani or anyone else would have trusted him to be involved in something as important as The Plot.
Also in the mimic veil description, it says it was "one of many treasures stolen" by Godrick...very possible Godrick stole a piece of Godwyns corpse for grafting
We do find a talisman on the face, the Prince of Death's Pustule. Possibly the implication is that the Pustule was a part Godrick stole and it grew the larger face?
Also I'm certain that Godrick's Rune was stolen from Godwyn. It's the Rune that holds the rest together, each Rune is heavily related to its associated demigod, Godwyn was the Big Brother, the lynchpin that held it all together. When Godwyn died Godrick stole the rite of the Rune. Godrick forces people together, so it can be mistaken he'd have the Rune of bonding, but no Godwyn really bonded people together through comradery, dignity and respect. Godrick probably hated him too. Addendum: Since it's come up twice I was reminded/made aware that yes the great Runes didn't necessarily exist separately until the Shattering however people are aware of its fragments. The sculptor(s) of Radagon's statue for instance is aware enough to have sculpted his rune of Order individually, the crisscross rune, on his statues (you also see it on the wall blocking the Erdtree entrance). There are images of the Elden Ring in different stages such as in Maliketh's arena at Farum Azula. So the Elden Ring does add segments and change, likely based on the family tree somehow in relation to Marika since she houses it. Also there are the towers which have the Great Rune activators at their tops held by the top demigod's Two Fingers...which actually brings up its own questions of why have towers to hold the individual rune fragment's activators to begin with by each of their Two Fingers... Either way I believe the Elden RIng changes shape within Marika, and it is something that can be physically witnessed enough to notice associations between a fragment and a member of the family tree, or else why bother making Radagon's rune on his statue. The pieces still represent associated family members despite being a whole thing in Marike, then ripped apart later, and it was likely much easier after Godwyn died since his was the lynchpin. After all, why bother called it the Anchor Ring, if no one ever perceived the Elden Ring was in segments to begin with? It says it right in the Great Rune's description. Some people are aware it changes shape and is in parts even before the Shattering.
I agree with this and want to add a little more. Him being called "the Golden" is relevant and very apt because gold in Elden Ring works as a sort of glue that can hold multiple principles together while keeping them separate. An example from Hawkshaw's Color Theory video are the Dappled Meats with multiple effects/colors. They are made with multiple materials and are the only recipe to use Golden Rowa to make it thus the gold from the Golden Rowa is what allows the cured meats to hold multiple resistance increases. As such, Godwyn the Golden is also the Gold that kept everything and everyone unified and killing him got rid of that gold/anchor, so to speak, and everything fell apart from there leading to the Shattering of the Elden Ring.
@@DanielGarcia-rx3kt Exactly exactly, thoughts like that led me down this trail of thinking. Thinking on the metaphors and symbolism of things and how they relate to one another, like just as you say the concept of Alloyed Gold. Just like with Morgott who represents an impure, or repelling mix of gold and alloys. Godwyn represents a successful blend, Morgott is the opposite, but is still trying to keep it together. Like he literally does in-game by intent. His sword implies such. And then Miquella is attempting similar where he's trying to be Pure Gold, but still accepting of others without mixing. (Just too bad he may have been forcibly mixed with things he never intended considering the Rot and Mohg, if that is his body in the egg, or maybe he did intend for that).
@@khallous Thank you so much, I can be a bit overly serious, but I try to be sincere and consider character motivations and emotions as well as logical reasoning and the metaphysics of the world too.
Dont think it could have been stolen, more likely to have been unjustly claimed by Godrick, but I do like the theory. Thematically the anchor rune being tied to Godwyn makes a ton of sense, more sense than Godrick having it. Remember tho, the Great Runes are a result of the Shattering. Godwyn died before the Shattering. The Elden Ring was whole and in Marikas possession when he died, Godwyn could not have possessed the anchor rune himself. Unless it was given to his corpse....
It always bothered me how Deathroot starts by recreating Godwyn's eyes, and yet the most complete recreation of him under Stormveil is lacking those eyes. Maybe being affected by the Blood Star could be related to that, as it can only be seen by the blind.
Those thorns are also found in the Chapel of Anticipation (right where you start a new game and step outside). It is connected to Stormveil for sure though cause you find "The Stormhawk King" item there, fight a Grafted Scion and it looks to be a cemetery of sorts for Stormveil.
The thing that bugs me the most about your theory, it's that it gives an agency, an importance, to Godrick's character, that's not echoed by no other item description, lore text, or NPC dialog. We have to remember some things: - Godrick is a coward. - He admires the Golden Lineage (okay, maybe he envies Godwin, but to participate in the plot? I think it's too much) - I dont see Ranni aligning herself with someone like him. He could ruin the whole operation. RU-vidr "Zayf the Scholar", has a video about this very same topic, he covers almost the same things as you, but the conclusion/theory that he makes, it's that Godrick, on the assault on Leyndell, stole Godwin's postule to use for grafting. The item that we find on the "corpse" on Stormveil. That would be what makes the "face" and curse, appear so distinctively on the castle. I really like this theory, because it ties the curse of Godwin with the curse of grafting. Overall, great video.
I like the idea of there being a connection between Godwyn's curse and grafting because it sort of explains how the "dead" limbs remain "alive" and how the dead dragon is brought back to life when it's attached to Godrick's arm, he's somehow wielding the curse of those who live in death to reanimate/keep them alive in death. There isn't any other explanation for how grafting would even work otherwise.
This theory also brings together both possible reasons for the curse provided by the thorned shield item description. It is both due to the godwyn face which is there in the first place to enable grafting.
Yeah, when thinking about how the thorns of punishments and the corpse under leyndell could be linked, my personal theory would be that they are a result of defiling Godwyn corpse.
I think I prefer this take. Godrick stealing some part of Godwyn would make more sense to me than him being trusted with a role in the conspiracy. He seems way too incompetent to be trusted with that lol
I prefer the theory that godrick stole a piece of Godwyns corpse to try and graft it but he couldnt, discarded it and from it the whole corpse grew that cursed him for even trying. this way both theories from the shield are true; He is both punished for grafting as well as for stealing godwyns pieces. also he probably escaped the night of the deadly plot by using marikas veil.
I am very much convinced that the corpse below stormveil is actually the flayed face of Godwyn. We know Ranni and Rykard conspired together in the night of black knives. We also know that the godskins seem to align with Rykard and the blaspehmous serpent. I dont think its a stretch to say that godskins flayed Godwyns facial flesh and were unable to make an outfit out of it. Especially considering you find the godslayer seal and prayerbook in a room above the facial corpse.
I forget who made the video, but I remember someone saying that when Rogier describes Stormveil Godwyn as a “relic” of the plot, it’s in a similar connotation to the relics of saints that are revered in Catholic and Orthodox churches across Europe and the Middle East. The implication being that it’s an actual body part of Godwyn that Godrick stole, among the many other treasures he fled the capital with. The relic theory helps to explain why Godwyn manifests so strongly in Stormveil as opposed to other Deathroot-afflicted areas. Perhaps Godrick wished to graft the body part of his significantly more powerful relative, but something about Godwyn’s zombified flesh didn’t sit right, and was thus discarded. But, if you’re right about Godrick being a conspirator, then the thorns could be a kind of condemnation from Godwyn from beyond the grave, allowing the whole world to see Godrick’s guilt. As a side note, Godrick coming to be at odds with the sovereign alliance actually helps paint a picture of how the Shattering happened on a political level. It seems to have started off as the accused conspirators against those whose loyalty to the Golden Order was never questioned. Godrick, being the runt of the litter, probably had all the fingers pointed at him first, and in his desperation to prove himself a worthy sovereign, attacked the capital. Rykard, who was already famous for his experiments in heretical hex magic, was likely next to be blamed, so he fled to his Volcano fortress with Morgott and Miquella hot on his heels (yes, there is overwhelming evidence that Miquella was at the Battle of Mt. Gelmir.) Seeing the charade was up, Ranni promptly gets the fuck out of dodge. Finally, and perhaps most tragically, seeing how his two siblings were suspected of treachery, the blame was then shifted to Radahn, despite his hero worship of Godfrey and Radagon, leading to his defeat at the Second Defense of Leyndell. He decides to retreat with his soldiers to Caelid. At this point, seeing the utter collapse of the Golden Order, Miquella and Malenia set out in their own journey to create the Haligtree, and setting out to bring life to soulless bones. However, the fated eclipse never happens, as Radahn holds the stars in stasis, leading to the Battle of Aeonia
I haven't seen the video myself yet but another comment said it was "Zayf the Scholar". I agree with your assessment of the political developments of the shattering in broad strokes, but I'm curious what evidence there is for Miquella/Malenia being at Mt Gelmir
@@noamias4897 idk about Malenia specifically, but there are items heavily associated with Miquella EVERYWHERE on the site of the battle. Trina’s lilies, and a few of Miquella’s lilies are scattered all across the mountain. Same can be said of Sacramental Buds. We also find the Pulley Crossbow there, which is said to have been created by a “certain genius” who practiced Golden Order Fundamentalism. While this could refer to Goldmask, I doubt he was even in the Lands Between during the Shattering, and crafting a weapon of war doesn’t really seem like his style. Miquella, on the other hand, was involved in the Shattering, and is clearly an expert craftsman if Gowry’s assessment of his needle is to be trusted. I think the Battle of Mount Gelmir may have actually been the tipping point that drove Miquella away from Fundamentalism. He no doubt saw the appalling depravity of the battle which saw no decisive victor and left the participating soldiers afflicted with Madness. Plus, the Golden Order offered fuck-all in the way of curing him and his sister of their curses. Thus, I believe this is when his disillusionment sparked his desire to forge his own kingdom. I also think that after the battle is when Miquella and Mohg may have first met. We can find the Writheblood ruins on the road leading to the Gelmir bridge between the mountain and Altus. I don’t know if they actually came to some kind of accord at that moment, or it was just Mohg spying Miquella amongst the retreating soldiers and thinking he was a hot piece of ass to stalk
I for one welcome back our Elden Ring overlords and can only hope for more videos for this masterpiece. I totally haven't done 3 new playthroughs this spring that are prepared to enter the DLC with different builds. Nope. I can stop playing whenever I want.
Theory about your last point: The thorns did affect Godrick. He just grafted those body parts away. All that's left of his ORIGINAL body are his head and his upper torso. Edit: Probably why Godefroy had to result to grafting, too.
2:53 In the Design Works of Elden Ring, it pretty much confirms it’s “wind erosion” that’s causing a lot of the damage on Stormveil and it’s backed up by many things, biggest one being the winds always traveling east making direct contact with the Western Wall of Stormveil, where most of the mottling and thorns can be found. Nepheli when she talks about Godrick states “he’s tainted the very winds” because of his grafting and I assume this is why all the exiles wear hoods that cover their faces with even the 1.0 claiming it prevents the “curse”(corrupted winds) from “slipping inside”. Another piece of evidence is the environment in the Chapel of Anticipation where you see the same thorns manifesting and the trees bending east. I assume this is the reason the Chapel is standing on a tall cliff with it deteriorating from the winds that originate in that direction. The Marred Leather Shield of course alludes to Godwyn being the source of the curse and it would make sense because he is know to spread corruption and was a lightning wielder, paralleling the firstborn Nameless King figure from Dark Souls 3 in many ways(firstborn son who befriended the dragons and began a cult) and also influenced the storm which is likely what Godwyn is doing in his half-state. This is also why you find so many Godwyn items/monuments near Stormcaller Church Imo.
@@puzzleheaded6195 I don't know about that... I am not even sure where DondanRV got those slides and where he got that information. Is that presentation from From Software publicly available somewhere? Edit: He has a list of sources in the video, but nothing in that list includes the slide presentation.
So Zayf The Scholar posted a similar video 2 weeks ago and he noted that the curse’s relation to Godwyn may have something to do with the relics that Godrick fled with from Leyndell. Such a strong presence of the cursemark in Stormveil seems out of place so perhaps there is an actual piece of Godwyn in the castle that is causing the spread. It’s my own theory that the “something more sinister” bit of flavor text might be a cheeky way to indicate that piece of Godwyn is his left hand.
the blood star being associated with stormveil sure seems to explain why we have a blood using godrick knight at fort height. I think the blood star and the formless mother are basically one and the same or at least twin gods or something.
There's a group of Bloodstar guilty not too far north from Stormveil as well in Liurnia. Also the color of the exile's hoods is reminiscent of them, clothing color and insignias are important symbols of status, creed and group relation in this world.
@@Locaneo those guys are probably after Adan who stole the Flame of the Fell God incantation. His evergaol is pretty close by and their encampments could insinuate they've been looking in the area for a while.
If that were true we could expect to see thorn sorcerers in Mogh’s domain. But there are none. In addition, thorns incantations and associated weapons have no arcane scaling, as those connected to the Formless Mother by way of Mogh do, and worshippers of the Blood Star have no ability to wield bloodflame, although this power may come from Mogh directly rather than the Mother. It’s POSSIBLE that the Blood Star is still linked to the Formless Mother; an offshoot of sorts, an older manifestation of her power, or a way to hedge her influence in the Lands Between by appearing as multiple beings and manipulating multiple, unrelated groups. I would argue that the knight and soldiers occupying Fort Haight are betrayers who abandoned Godrick to try and join with the servants of the Formless Mother. We’ll likely never know the truth of the matter, but if worship of the Mother was common among Godrick’s troops we’d see more of them wielding bloodloss. It’s also possible those soldiers were simply occupying the fort on Godrick’s orders and the knight developed the bloody slash ash of war independently thanks to the blood roses so common around the fort, something which is only also found at the Rose Church in Liurnia. JUST these two places, in all the Lands Between.
Interesting vid… hard to get around that last counterpoint at the end. Maybe the thorns were actually wrought from something Godwyn did, not Godrick? Perhaps Godwyn isn’t so “golden” in his deeds after all and did something that actually merited the punishment of the red star? This would align well with GRRM’s narrative tendencies… subverting the trope of a martyred hero. 🤷🏻♂️ Also the fact that Godwyns corpse is growing in two places could be because Godrick stole a body part from Godwyn to be grafted. Perhaps Godrick stole Godwyn’s legs (note that Godwyn’s legs have been replaced with the fish tail in the Deeproot Depths…) maybe Godrick tried to graft Godwyn’s legs, but noticed the thorny affliction growing from them, so he discarded them down to the depths of Stormveil Castle. And then that sh*t spread from there
Another possibility - what if Godwyn shared Marika’s power to create another aspect of himself? (A radagon esque creation, but created from Godwyn). That opens up all sorts of possibilities for further interactions with Godrick… consider the following possibility: The act of Godwyn creating another aspect of himself was itself the “sin” that wrought the red star’s punishment via the thorny affliction… without awareness to this affliction, Godrick kidnapped the Godwyn-clone and held him captive in Stormveil. The Godwyn clone might’ve died in captivity… or died at the hands of Godrick’s attempted grafting… and the affliction grew out from his corpse after his death
Or maybe even Godrick grafting the part onto himself somehow transferred _his_ guilt/sin into the soul-dead vessel in some form. That would kinda make both hypotheses true. The mottling and thorns are both due to grafting _and_ something more sinister deep within the castle.
That's an insanely good theory. That answer fully satisfies me. But about the sovereign alliance, if it was after the Black Knife Assassins' attack, why did Ranni have a chair? She died. So did Morgott and every other demigod know that she half-died and was present in doll form? I cannot build a full picture here
Godrick used Mimic's Veil to flee Leyndell, and you can loot this item in Stormveil. "When Godrick was hounded from Leyndell, this was one of a multitude of treasures he took with him. Also known as "Marika's Mischief"." Kenneth Haight says that Godrick cowardly hid himself among women when he fled. And the Mimic's Veil item is now theorized to come from the Land of Shadow (since it's Marika's "veil" that hides the area). Mimics in general are associated with the Eternal Cities and Numen, including the Black Knife Assassins.
I had thought that Godfrey had been cultivating the death blight in the basement in order to use it for grafting. Particularly because in the real-life practice of grafting, you need to create a seal around the connection point of the graft, traditionally using wax. And the Prince of Death Pustule shows is that the Godwyn-corpse under Stormveil produces corpse wax.
If you watch the 2019 trailer, Godrock is seen grafting an arm, i believe its implied to be Godwyns, so he stole Godwyns arm and it fucked him up so he threw it into the depths of stormveil. Godefroy is the grafted soul of the real Godrick to stop deathroot corruption of his body
@@autismointermitente8767 Let's not pretend like English as a language is consistent about pronunciation in any way. As long as there's not an official source about Tiche's pronunciation all bets are off really.
@@SaHaRaSquad its a greek word ffs , it means luck . the black kniffe assasisns have greek names , like Alecto . Tiche in greek just means luck and its pronounced ''tihi''
I’ve always felt the face/body underneath Stormveil was actually a molting left by Godwyn’s ever-growing corpse, not a strange copy. But I’ve never heard anyone else speculate about this. The flat, deflated nature of the corpse and the lack of eyes behind the lids make me strongly believe this is a discarded molting. Thoughts?
I figure it’s Godwyn’s original body. The thorns sought out the great tree roots, once they found it, the body moults, leaving a skin in Stormveil, and replicates itself in full underground.
Its a good theory! A couple points: We don't actually know that Godwyn was killed at the Capital. The description of the NoBK on the Bandai Namco site says the murders took place "throughout the empire", and the victims were "scattered". It could well be that Godwyn was at Stormveil when he was murdered - that alone might explain why the castle is cursed. That Ringleader Alecto fled the Capital might imply Godwyn was killed there, but it could be that they fled the Capital later after being found out. The Black Knives were kin of Marika, they probably lived in the Capital, so it could be that they did the murders, got away with it in the short term, returned to the Capital and then got discovered and fled. Its also possible that Godrick wasn't killed because at the time of the plot, he was irrelevant. It would be very fitting for the character if he only became Lord because most the rest of the golden lineage was wiped out by the assassins (and Godefroy was locked up). His blood is "sorely diluted", and Kenneth describes him as a "jumped up country bumpkin" implying his relation to Godwyn is distant. Its extra pathetic and extra fitting if his status boost following the Night of the Black Knives was completely inadvertent and had nothing to do with him.
The first point doesn't make sense since we find Godwyn's corpse right beneath the capital; multiple characters, from Fia to a Finger Reader there, confirm that it IS him. Not to mention Fortissax and his rememberance. Probably a botched attempt at Erdtree Burial.
The cinematic trailer also appears to show the black knives riding through Mistwood. Which would line up with him being murdered in Stormveil. Perhaps if that's the site of his death, some remnant remained, creating the visage and this is why no death root is present, because that only sprouted once his body was buried at the Erdtree's roots. "Later, the Rune of Death spread across the Lands Between through the underground roots of the Greattree"
The Black Knife Assassins likely split into groups across the Lands Between if all of the killings happened on the same night. This means that Alecto and Tiche's group was probably targeting Leyndell, and Alecto likely rendezoused with Ranni afterward at the Moonlight Altar. The Assassins likely knew Marika from a time before she supported the Greater Will, and thus would deem her a traitor to the Eternal Cities.
@@nebky That doesn't necessarily show Mistwood. It just happened to be a night of "wintry fog", as Ranni put it. We just a woods in the middle of the night with some fog. It could still be somewhere close to the capital.
Man, this is one of my favourite lore videos of yours. Youve been killing it lately. To justify Godrick's lack of thorns, the only other thing that occurs to me, other than what you mentioned, is that the Grafting is a curse in an of itself. His body being already composed of trolls, tarnished and even dragons, all creatures that are somewhat maligned, the curse instead triggered on the castle, ruining his legacy. Considering the reason why they choose Godwyn, which is arguable, your theory provided me with an idea for Godrick at least to want to target Godwyn. He wanted the legacy of "the golden", to replace him, to become him and through him, get closer to Leyndell and Godfrey. Even the dragon head that he grafts to his arm seems to be a gross simplification to mimic Godwyn's companionship with dragons. So, circling back to the main question about why he wasnt affected, I do buy into your theory of the guilty having to be publicly shamed or condemned in the eyes of society for the Blood Star to trigger. Someone who's guilty and got away with it doesnt have the desesperation, the shame, the fear in their eyes, for the thorns to lodge themselves in. And if so, Godrick would be unsuited, being that his arrogance and pride precludes it. On the other hand, maybe by the curse attacking only his legacy, his castle, the curse of the guilt for his part on Godwyns murder attacks his standing in society, which, you know, we can argue if he values that or not. But it does seem that the bloodstar got him canceled lol. Anyway, thats my two cents. I reiterate, great video Rata!
@@jackhague3828 to be honest I hadnt made that possible connection myself until watching this. But i like that headcannon. Glad to spice up your lore understanding!
I thought this was great too, but after reading some comments, apparently he release this right after Zayf the scholar did. I didn’t know who zayf was either but after seeing his channel and video on it it was better produced !
There is some evidence connecting Stormveil to Godfrey. A painting of him is found in the castle and Nepheli, who eventually becomes lord of the castle, due to her "lineage", according to Kenneth Haight, shares his surname(well at least the surname of his alter ego: Hoarah Loux). This implies that he was once the lord of Stormveil castle. Perhaps the affliction has nothing to do with Godrick. Maybe it is a punishment of Godfrey. After all, Marika did divest him from the grace of gold, that could have been her condemning him for something he did. It's possible that Stormveil was turned into a penal colony for many of his followers, among others, after Marika exiled Godfrey. Plus, on the night of black knives, no mention is made of where Godwyn was killed. It may be that that visage in the depths of Stormveil is just a marker of where he was killed and is mere coincidence. To me, those thorns on that thing don't look anything like the ones spread throughout the castle. Now, that doesn't really mean they aren't related, but it sure doesn't make me believe they are. Even if they are related, maybe the reason Marika disposed of Godfrey was because he was involved in the night of black knives too, thereby, making the punishment come directly from Godwyn. The description of the marred shield only gives two theories that the denizens of the castle came up with. It could easily be neither. Just some more food for thought, I guess.
It could be that for the Blood Star to take root in someone, they need to actually feel guilt? Or perhaps, as demi-gods, Ranni, Rykard, and Godrick are immune to its effects. Or it could be that it affects Stormveil Castle because Godrick does feel guilt but Ranni and Rykard do not.
This makes the most logical sense as to why stormveil is the way it is. I have watched so many lore vids and so far this is the most convincing theory. Great job man!!!
1) the entrance to the lower area of the castle has a painting of Stormhill before Stormveil itself was built. You should have this in mind before continuing. 2) said painting has a notable opening below stormhill which either doesnt exist in the present time or has been superceded by either the Heroes' Grave or the Stormfoot Catacombs. 3) the presence of boat burials, something practiced nowhere else that i know of in the Lands Between, suggests either a truly ancient or at least idiosyncratic burial practice. 4) the presence of a long-rotted baldachin over the entrance to the cave with the face suggests this place was sacred long ago. 5) the presence of the pustule may not be suggesting a connection, but perhaps a point of comparison. IE, compare and contrast this with the face before you. Notably, the lack of eyes. 6) The presence of Rancor nearby, mentioning necromancer Garris, implies that he was active in this area (you often find spell/AoW scarabs near where someone with that ability has been active) 7) you find Garris sharing cave space with a Black Knife. Both seem pretty well-established in their spaces, so they must be aware of each other. 8) The presence of so many heretical paraphernalia suggests the Sage's cave might have been a staging area for the plot. Therefore, Garris was likely involved in the plot. 9) the Ravenmount Assassin uniform, coupled with the Claw Talisman found in Stormveil, suggests a further connection between these locations. 10) Taking his exact words, Rogier never actually says that the face is Godwyn. Its not a sacred relic of the Prince of Death, it's a sacred relic of *the plot itself.* Taken together, i've come to the conclusion that the face predates Godwyn, possibly even Stormveil itself. It's a previous version of the Prince of Death, some ancient sacrifice. It was studied by Garris, who perhaps took its eyes himself in order to study them. That was the sin that csused Stormveil's curse.
I think you're ignoring something much more simple and more dire: Godfrey tried to use Godwyn's corpse for grafting. Godfrey tries to emulate Godwyn's position all the time, that's basically his sole personality, trying to be everything people liked in Godwyn, even the dragon arm is relevant in this His sin is not treason, is dessecration.
@@TheSergio1021 I'm basing myself more in his obsession for the golden lineage and the dragon arm, but yeah now that I think about it there isn't any specific characters with apparent Godwyn grafting.
@@TheSergio1021Not much, really. Other than Rogier calling whatever is underneath Stormveil "a sacred relic from the Night of the Black Knife Assassins". A relic can be a body part of a saint or martyr that is preserved (usually for veneration). So that together with its strangeness and Godrick's obsession with grafting and claiming he's the Golden one, could point to him having stolen a bodypart, a relic. Who else would have use for it in Elden Ring? And for what purpose other than grafting it? But it's underneath the castle, together with broken statues and ruins, discarded with the rest of the trash... Now, it's not a solid theory evidence-wise, but I understand why it's compelling.
Yo the emotional rollercoaster I went on during this video was wild. At first I was like, "meh that's a lot of cool thoughts". During the middle I was like, "this guy is nuts". By the end I was like, "HOLY SHIT THIS GUY IS RIGHT!"
My guess is that someone had the brilliant idea of using a part of Godwyn's corpse for grafting, as a result of that horrific transgression and double whammy of sins the whole place go cursed and that part of the corpse grew into the full monstrosity lurking underneath the castle.
What if it's not Godwyn? What if it's on of the other demigods that was slain on the Night of the Black Knives? What if the odd face manifestation is not unique to Godwyn only, and that it happens to all who are slain in spirit only? That would imply that there is another demigod whose body was slain at the same time, though, just like Ranni. Do we know any candidates? The difference between the thorns and Godwyn's worms+insect wings could be the unique manifestation of each demigod. An additional observation, the area in which the face is found appears to be the location of some old death rites. Specifically one where a body is placed on a boat and sent off to... Somewhere that is now blocked by the face/body. Point being that this is a location of ceremony, and it wouldn't surprise me if the face we see here is the result of another ceremony like the one that resulted in Godwyn's death. On a different note, I found it odd that we find no traces of mottling anywhere near the face. This prompted me to search all places with signs of mottling, and the findings were equally as odd. I could only find mottling on west-facing walls, with them predominantly appearing on the west-most outer wall facing the ocean/chapel of anticipation. Some more are found within Godrick's boss room and the main structure within it, but again, only the west-facing walls. Now, the mark you found on the ground with the staples may put a hole in this observation, but I would like to know where the hole(s) appear, and if they might align with my findings. Even if not, I find it incredibly odd that the holes appear near exclusively on west-facing walls. Edit: some mottling is found on south-facung walls as well, but ONLY in areas that have ocean to the south (so basically just the area around the main Stormveil gate) Additional observation: the storm afflicting Stormveil blows only in one direction: from the Southwest.
It has to be Godwyn. They only reason he died only in body is because Ranni's death split the curse mark in two. And I doubt it just happens naturally when two people die at the same time because of the rune of death. If that was the case we whould have seen much more bodyless demigods like Ranni
@@namenlossterbliche6239 thank you for your comment. Yes, if it were simply two people dying at the same time from the rune of death I think we would have a lot more cases of this happening. I stipulate that it is demigods slain as part of a ritual using the rune of death (same circumstances as Ranni and Godwyn). As for bodiless demigods, we have Ranni, Melina, and Miquella (at the risk of further complicating things perhaps even Messmer - for demigods, going from the lands between to the shadow lands seems to require discarding one's flesh. Messmer was potentially in the lands between previously, with the spears being impaled into the giants as evidence). I'm not even fully sold on my theory myself but I enjoy throwing ideas around because it spurs on more ideas like the Messmer one above, so thanks again for your comment. Edit: added "for demigods"
I wonder if the constant grafting could be connected to the thorns? Thorns start to appear on a section of his body, he gets mad and panics, cuts in off, and replaces the piece with a graft from some poor tarnished.
Godwyn’s great rune simply be could be protecting him. He is a demigod, even if he is the weakest~ that said, I like your “they must be convicted” explanation, and I think it has a lot of interesting implications for the setting~ :3
It's cool to see base game Elden Ring lore content still being created pre-DLC. One interesting thing about the Godwyn face in Stormveil is that if you attack it it does bleed. So it is a flesh and blood sacred relic. I'm not sure if that detail is relevant in any way but it is an interesting thing to note given FromSoft's attention to detail. Thanks for the fascinating video!
I forget who suggested it, but it's possible the Godwyn face we see at the bottom of Stormveil is literally a chopped off piece of Godwyn's body. Given that Rogier describes it as a "relic" from the Night of Black Knives, it's not too far off to assume it means a relic in the real-life religious sense of the remains of a holy individual. Whether Godrick purposefully took the part with him for grafting, or just out of kleptomania, is unclear, but he would then end up throwing it down in the depths. Perhaps it didn't work for grafting due to deathroot complications, or perhaps the weight of sin literally made it unwieldy. The sin, in this case, could be either complicity in Godwyn's murder or the desecration of his body, or both.
I gottanidea: Stormveil is a literal butchery. Godwin's deathroot seems to sprout up in places of mass death, and the thorns must be bloodthirsty too, attaching themselves to bodies and bloodstained castles. Maybe they're competing for the real estate? I'm not convinced the exiles are complicit or even subordinated to Godrick. They seem to predate Godrick's arrival, which would explain the confusion about whether it's Grafting or "something else". I this case, both are one and the same: that something else is attracted to the bloodbath caused by the grafting indutrial complex.
Wonderful. I rarely touch on that bloodstar stuff but did recently get reminded that at least on knight from Stormveil was obsessed with blood. However, I do have an alternative theory for what is going on in Stormveil. Starting with Morgott, or rather, his Margit phantom. It could be there as penal guard, investigator, pity, or whatever other reason but I favor it is part of some duty given him by Marika or that he thinks he owes her. What duty? He seals to passage beyond Leyndell. He wards passage against the Deeproot Depths. He creates a phantom of Mohg to scare people away from what lay bellow. He creates a phantom to ward passage to his mother’s chamber, even allows a Black Knife Assassin to guard the room. He possesses a commoner, corrupts them, to misdirect us from the Minor Erdtree infected with Deathblight. He guards and oversees Godwyn and the secrets of the Greattree. Godwyn has at least two living corpses. One sits nestled in the roots beneath a Minor Erdtree, where Fia binds her soul to his dead soul to create the Mending Rune of the Death-Prince, I’ll call this one Death-Prince. The other lay beneath Stormveil where Rogier dropped a Postule of the Prince of Death, I’ll call this one Prince of Death. There are a few obvious differences in the two Godwyn’s. Two, Eyes and No Eyes, Deathblight and No Deathblight, are actually the same difference. Souls seemingly reside in the eyes, so too would a dead soul. It is a dead soul in a living body that produces deathblight. I don’t know that either body is actually Godwyn’s whole body. I suspect they are scions, literally parts of him removed. One, the Death-Prince, grew from the transplanted eyes of Godwyn. The Prince of Death grew from some other part. A third Godwyn, his eyeless original body, was secreted away to the Haligtree to be fixed. Or some variation of that. Thus, Death-Prince grows one way and spreads deathblight, Prince of Death grows another way but does not suffer deathblight corruption, and the third sits in the big cocoon Mohg drags behind him when he escorts tiny Miquella from the Haligtree. This grafting experiment harkens the Crucible and its blending of life. For reasons. The Stormveil body and the roots it is presumably connected to certainly are not connected to the same roots as the Leyndell subterranean Death-Prince as that would necessarily carry deathblight. But why Stormveil? It’s a penal colony, experiment on criminals. Godrick, having blood from Hoarah Loux would serve as a more viable candidate for tests and because he is a pathetic disgrace. He’d jump at the opportunity to not be useless and a drug like him effects nothing in any case.
Got a hot take: I don't think Godwyn is the source of anything in Stormveil Castle. That face under Stormveil Castle? That's what happens when a Demigod dies by soul alone and isn't carried around by the walking mausoleum, like you explained in your previous video. I just think that particular demigod had a different effect on the world around it. If Godwyn is the source of Deathblight in general, then this other Demigod is the source if the affliction that messed up Stormveil Castle. - Godwyn is all about Eyes. There are no eyes visible whatsoever in Stormveil Castle - There is nothing that could've inflicted Deathblight on Rogier down there, he must've been afflicted with it beforehand - There are no enemies that spread Deathblight in Stormveil Castle - I don't buy that the thorns just eat up everything that was evidently guilty of sorts. What did the castle do? The castle is not alive as far as I know, so I think it's more of a disease that just spreads around there without a connection to Godwyn. - I saw a video of someone (Zullie the Witch or BonfireVN) compare the two models of that face and Godwyn and they're not exactly the same models. The nose of the is longer than that if Godwyn. If it's supposed to be the same entity, why not just copy it over? Those are my 2 cents on the matter. Maybe that corpse is the Stormking? Another thing to note, is that the thorns on the hood if the guilty are not the same thorns as on the armor of the exiled soldiers. The thorns on the hood aren't randomly placed or worked into the wearer, they're deliberately put around the neck as a punishment by the people. Especially because they've only committed petty crimes. The source of the thorns is a disease or a corruption that's it's own thing and has nothing to do with the blood star or Godwyn. That's my opinion.
The pustule you loot from next to the corpse says "It is said that this pustule came from the visage of the Prince of Death, he who used to be called Godwyn."
@@saulgonemanthe Cyst we find in Deeproot Depths also says it came from the "Visage of the Prince of Death" however, so in this case "visage" doesn't necessarily mean a copy of Godwyn's face.
My pet theory is that Godwyn was buried under Stormveil originally, and his body has just been spreading throughout the lands between as a mycelial network, and producing clones of Godwyn's body like mushrooms. This is who I think is actually in all of those mausoleums: soulless, lifeless Godwyn clones that weren't able to be resurrected. I *don't* think that there are other soulless demigods in there, which would require subsequent cursemark rituals for each one (...but obviously there isn't enough information, and I could be completely wrong). I think as these Godwyn fruiting bodies "ripen", without the organizing principle of the soul, they distort into monstrosities, which is why we find a vestige of one in the Stormveil depths. It would make sense for one to develop to its fullest and most monstrous in deeproot depths, right under the erd tree.
@@saulgoneman Well, the eye is on a corpse and the corpse was probably a dude before he died. Maybe he was afflicted and fell down. Maybe that was, was Rogier felt when he ventured down there.
Perhaps because Godrick has grafted so many other's body parts onto himself he has removed most of the thorn cursed parts of his body. The new arms and legs and dragon head are from innocent people and creatures and so didn't invoke thorns? Awesome video, given me a whole new appreciation of the story.
Godwyn's new form under Stormveil looks a lot like the 'Death Star' Starfish. A lot of similarities/links, especially the thorns, passive nature/brainless (soulless?) and marine-esque vibe. Also, the thorns could have been another reason why Godrick and Godefroy started grafting. Great vid, thank you!
Just a thought but maybe Godrick is Grafting body parts not just to gain power, but also to stave off whatever side effects he has from the curse Godwyn has put on him?
As a synthesis from other posters, the Mimic's Veil item description indicates that Godrick stole a number of treasures on his way out, as you indicate likely chased out in the First Defense. Stormveil itself is also littered with items that are out-of-place or unusual; the Manor Towershield, the Godskin items, the Brick Hammer, etc. Among those items he stole, it is entirely likely these included pieces of Godwyn's body, a 'holy relic' in its own right as Rogier indicates, whether for use in grafting, to emulate the Godskin techniques maybe contained in the Prayerbook, or simply because Godwyn was his (maybe) honored ancestor. Given we find Godwyn's corpse next to funerary boats and ghostflame, associated with ancient burial practices, it is in fact possible that Godrick sought to give Godwyn's remains a more 'fitting' burial in accordance with his arrogance, or tried to mitigate his 'sin' by re-interring the body once the thorns started spreading, then cast down the statues we find at the bottom of the ravine as the thorns continued to spread in anger. Godrick's sin, then, that the briars are punishing him for could be any of: his cowardice and failure to act in accordance with his heritage, as Kenneth Haight accuses him of, his theft/desecration of Godwyn's remains, or in retribution for his betrayal of the Erdtree, either during the NoBK or in the First Defense, as you posit.
Very interesting! What's keeping me a bit reluctant to fully accept it, is the state of another castle: Castle Morne. Edgar mentions he was sent there by Godrick. There's Godrick knights fighting the miscreants and the castle is full of Stormveil iconography. The armory is full of weapons and armor worn by Godrick's army, too. Even versions of the 'Marred Shield'. The only big absent: the thorns. Nothing in Castle Morne shows signs of that same corruption, if you will. To me, that says that corruption is local, and particular to Stormveil. I've had two ideas pop into my head, which I'm yet to fully explore: (i) Godwyn was actually killed in Stormveil, which would be an explanation for the 'special' case of Deathroot in the castle; or (ii) the body down in Stormveil is just 'a' relic of the Night of Black Knives: it's a demigod that was killed but never 'recovered'. I'd be very interested in hearing your thoughts!
I have another belief about the monument of swords that speaks of the first defense; but this one you shared is very interesting and I will keep it in mind. And as for why Godrick doesn't have thorns, it may be that every time they started to grow he would remove that part of his body and replace it with another, using his grafts not only as a source of power but to escape the thorns.
I always took it is there was just so much death at the hands of Godrick and the grafting that Stormveil had an advance case of Deathblight. That it was showing what a realm influenced by Godwyn would look like. It also keeps the theme at each biome is somehow directly related to one of Marika/Radagon’s direct children.
as for the throneless i mean thornless Godrick, he looks as if trapped on a floating rampart strip whose sides or connecting ground have been knocked off; i think the thorns spread through the walls so he is isolated and "safe" from the thornfestation but can't leave either. it's just weird why he got a dragon impaled on a pillar statue but that's another story. moxie watts highlighted a theory about Stormveil castle being the tip of the Shadow Tree lands hiding Veil. reading the comments here in this video i think the literal interpretation of "mending rune holding" is a fluke. i am still tying (badumtss) these strings together but the respective meaning behind meddling roons to me reads more as symbolic hinterpretation of what the subjects plotted / waged / mended with their intents*action. great to see you back, rat scar 🚬🐉🔥
This a very interesting theory, i love that. The things that remain are the fact the Godrick doesnt seem to be affected (at least by the thorns, cause him is in clear decay as a being) and also the fact that we dont see that anywhere else, as it should also appear in places related to the other conspirators as Ranni and Rykard.
Perhaps another motivating factor behind Godrick's use of grafting was that his body WAS afflicted with thorns. So he replaces bits of his cursed form with parts primarily from the Tarnished, who are innocent and removed from the sins of The Night of Black Knives and The Shattering.
Something of note to maybe add to this, is the face under the castle has no eyes. Other places where the face appears, like on crabs or otherwise, it has eyes. Practitioners of thorn sorcery either cover their eyes, like alberich, or have them blinded, like the thorn sorcerers associated with the fire monks. So, a blind, eyeless face "casting" thorns from itself does seem to line up with those thematics of the blood star.
Really good video i did want to point out that there are thorns in the game somewhat similar on the erdtree door that radagon bars you from entering that's why you have to burn the tree to get inside.
Look, not everything has to be deep and meaningful, but these kind of comments disregard the passion and care that Miyazaki and his team put into their worlds and stories.
The fact that the Godslayer's Seal and then Godskin Prayerbook are found in Stormveil adds support for your theory that Godrick was involved in the Night of the Black Knives. The Godskins are currently allied with Rykard and we know that he was involved in tNoftBK because of the Blasphemous Claw. So I think you might be onto something.
Interesting and well thought out theory. Two thoughts on it. 1) Godrick might be employing grafting to remove thorn infested areas on his body or has replaced enough of it the thorns can't identify who he is. 2) The opportunistic nature of the Blood Star is proven by it granting it's power to Morgott in the second phase of his battle. You can see the same red bloodfire effect that Mog uses in his battle in a few of Morgott's attacks. When Morgott loses control from the stress of the battle and unlocks his Omen powers, the Blood Star takes the opportunity to link to him likely in hope of corrupting Morgott to his brother's cause.
I actually really like this theory. I had never quite made the solid connection between thorns and guilt, and never realized that the Stormveil thorns were entirely unique. Good stuff.
After your video on the walking mausoleums (where you theorize that the soulless demigods are in the mausoleums in order to prevent what happened with Godwyn from happening again), I wondered if the corpse didn't belong to Godwyn at all, and the corpse belonged to some other demigod that Godrick had intended to graft. It may still corroborate with your thorns analysis; the demigod that Godrick got his hands on after the Night of the Black Knives would still have resentment toward Godrick for his crimes (of being a corroborator in the plot of the NotBK). And then there is the problem of there being no evidence of Godwyn's typical deathroot in all of Stormveil, but only the pockmarks (and thorns from undelivered justice). There is the Prince of Death's Pustule, but that resides on a corpse that might've brought it there, possibly by one trying to understand the presence of this corpse like Rogier (that last bit is a bit flaky imo, but there is still no trace of Godwyn's shit anywhere, so im at a loss). Then of course, there's nowhere else Godwyns corpse manifests in the way that it does at the roots of the Erd Tree. Why wouldn't his corpse manifest anywhere near where Ranni the Witch or any of her allies are posted up, if Ranni headed the NotBK? Maybe Godwyn only knew of Godricks involvement in the KotBK, and died not knowing about Ranni, but there's still no other evidence that I know of that supports Godwyn having any volition of where his corpse or deathroot pops up, so I've come to thinking that assuming the corpse in Stormveil is Godwyn, is a bit of a stretch. But yeah, I think that maybe the Prince of Death's Pustule was a red herring, and the pockmarks are another demigods form of "deathroot".
Ah, and the fact that the corpse doesn't have eyes. Yes that is a link to the Bloodstar, but maybe it implies a different person? Interesting that this corpse has NO eyes, and deathroot is COVERED in eyes.
It's worth noting that the thorns on the Elemer's armor are rusted iron briars. Which means that they were placed there by someone rather than born of a curse, possibly by his captors to torture him before they execute him. It's also likely that he was the revenger considering he's a survivor from Eochaid "a lesser, long-vanished domain" and the grafted blade greatsword talks about "a lone surviving champion from a country now vanished."
The sword monument imo has specific wording “rots from within” and “blood” I think Malenia and Mohg were somehow involved or caused infighting that broke up the alliance, we don’t really know what the relationship was between the Demi-gods outside of Miquella/ Godwyn and Ranni/ Rykard
With the level of aforethought that's gone into this game they've never just done things because it looks cool. The whole driving idea is to put stuff into the game that makes the player wonder, piece together evidence, and come up with a story. This is the core brilliance of FROM's games. Why we love 'em.
I think you are right that guilt regarding Godwyn’s death is the key stone to the thorns that mutilate Stormveil but one tangential possibility is that it’s not Godrick’s direct involvement but inaction that resulted in that guilt. He has the Mimic Veil and I assumed that is how he “hid among the womenfolk” to escape on the night of the assassination. Maybe I have the timeline wrong but him choosing to sneak away during the event that ultimately tore down the golden lineage and its hold on the throne could be enough guilt to support your theory. Or even just survivor’s guilt possibly.
I always thought the Mimic's Veil description was implying Godrick used that to escape the capital during the night of black knifes. Also considering how lowly he was looked upon by pretty much every character I don't think Rani and the demigods who plotted the night wants him of all people on their side. Anyway the connection with the blood star was a nice find and love your content.
i think he used godwyns corpse wax to graft so its both reasons, i think he took some of godwyn with him, the gargoyles in this game are patchwork warriors
Most other instances of Godwyn’s spreading corpse we see are spread through the roots of the Erdtree and watered with his corpse’s strange tears and grown from his full corpse, but I think the chunk of Godwyn found beneath the castle grown is from his flesh while separated from those, thus not spreading his eyes or death root or purple waters (outside of the pustule which seems to be a part which is staring to growing eyes and possibly deathblight as that kills Rogier?) Because of what’s going on in stormvale Godrick might be guilty for reasons relating to both his grafting and Godwyn, I think the first hand we see grafted to him could have been stolen from Godwyn’s corpse before the transformation started setting in. (Godwyn’s body now heals from any wound inflicted on it so the hand could grow back to what we see in game) Godrick’s body is heavily grafted, so I think he could have started being afflicted by the briars and ended up removing the hand himself before casting it beneath the castle, and replacing any part of himself the briars had grown into with fresh grafts
