Hopetown Sound Recording Studio is located is Doylestown, PA , ( Bucks County ). Owned and operated by producer Pier Giacalone since 2011 (in PA). Services include production arranging recording mixing editing mastering . Premium analog equipment. 30 years experience with a BFA in studio composition. Clients include Zayn Malik from One Direction , Stephan Hayes , Matt Duke Regina Spektor
Currently looking to build a desk using six midas L10's, giving each channel (16-20) three "inline" slots and maybe using speck VF16M faders or daw controller.
the big six has a lot of processing and converters included. if you need that its a good deal i guess. i haven't used it but i suspect the overall sonics in the xdesk are probably a little better. just reacting to how much they crammed into the big six for the price.
yes i've seen it. its interesting but im hesitant to add its sound to the signal path, also, I'm getting all the other advantages of doing the final mix in the DAW, recall, plugins... so the DAW automation is just part of that bargain.
@@hopetownsound yeah that totally makes sense. Just now getting into hybrid mixing. Love your videos. Keep up the good work. It’s always nice seeing other peoples workflow. Especially pros that do this on the daily. Thanks again.
Have you considered just running the outboard or channel strips of the console as external effects in nuendo, then routing them straight onto the summing side of the desk? Seems like a more coherent work flow, and you can still record the output channels (before summing) to open tracks to archive too
That would limit me to 16 analog channels and for most projects thats not enough. If i were running a 1608 or an SSL origin that would be more feasible. The unexpected part to this process is how much I'm enjoying splitting things up. Starting fresh in a new project with the sounds processed and no gain staging is like getting in the hot tub after the ocean. It definitely doesn't feel incoherent :). my explanation might've been though lol.
Great video. I've got a 1608 and have been racking my head trying to figure out how to incorporate it with my in the box mix template. A couple questions. 1. Do you find it takes a bit longer to mix the song this way? 2. So your premixing the tracks basically, what about parallel compression? Are you printing that back on the analog tracks? Or doing that once you do the digital mix? Cheers
it takes a little longer to set up the 2nd session but every mix I'm getting faster with that. you could definitely print parallel comps, or do it with plugins in monitor/digital mix. I'm using the SSL bus comp plugin on the drum skins bus and the SSL HF Comp on the drums metal bus. it's really nice.
btw! congrats on the 1608! I came so close to buying one last year, but it's just out of reach for me financially right now. Such a beautiful/flexible console. enjoy!!
Thank you for taking your time to explain this console’s features on this channel. I don’t know if to thank you or blame you for buying one of these.(My wife kicked me out of the house lol) It is arriving next week from vintage king!!!!! (I’m a gearsluXX) For me, it was the closet getting to the API sound without spending a ton of money. Like you said, you get a lot for your money just on the 8 312s,and the 527 compressors. I will use the summing side with ssl plugins and a UF1along with my Patchbays and other pres. You mentioned the summing bus for effect returns which we only have one. I just purchased a used Studio technologies 721 rack mount line mixer for $99. (Have to replace one Neutrik connector) It has 8 line level ins with input/output control with great specs,+26dbu max output. (Way more than needed) It kind of solves the problem with my aux returns. Again, thank you for taking your time on this channel All the best. George
lol! Hey George! congrats on the mixer! Hope the Mrs forgives you. If you put an api EQ in the 500 slots, the combo of the 312, the 527 and 550/560 is a devastating recording channel. Enjoy!
@@hopetownsound I’m saving my pennies for the APIs. It never ends when your a GearsluXX.I also have a couple of Avedis e27s but I don’t know how they will sound. Maybe for the inserts on the summing side in the future but for now I will use the software eqs on my ssl 360 with my Uf1.No plugins purchased yet.I purchased a Studio Technologies 742 mixer for now for my effect returns for my Lexocn 300 and cheap TC M300 through the Program Sum.Still waiting for it The Box 8 to arriive. All this because the one of the fader broke on my Midas Vf24 and there are no replacement parts. Thanks again for your helpful posts Pier. George
Hey Pier, wanted to ask you how reliable your API Box 2 is. I’m sure you record every day/night probably with now issues. I just got mine Thursday with output problems on the control and PGM outputs.On the control output with the CR knob at 2 o’clock and a sine wave at 0VU, pin 3 is dead and pin 2 is outputting .377 volts..On the PGM bus output, I'm getting .889 Volts on pin 2 and .321 volts on pin three, such a difference for a balanced signal that should equal 1.23Volts.It was the last one from vintage king and it came with a Sweetwater pamphlet inside the crate..Sorry for the off topic, man, but I’m worried about this mixer with all these problems already.(2520 op amps on control and master bus)? Thank You, George
what is the best and most basic to record the program out of the console , do you patch your monitors and run the main 2 program outs to a bay so that you can patch in to your daw/and let half the signal run through to the speakers? This doesnt seem quite right in theory, and i wish they had a sum out to DAW feature.. so you can hear the full summed mix and track it at the flip of a switch? objective is to final bounce through the api, with compressor section engange and end up with one stereo wav file.
yeah, there's separate program out and control room out. Either have it normal in the patchbay to 2 inputs on your interface, or, I have it on loose cables, so I can patch the program output anywhere. and then monitor the recorded signal on one of the 2 track inputs.
Talking about the SSL mixers, It is crazy that we feel uneasy when comparing the Big SIX against the X-Desk due to how many features the 6 has, but I TOTALLY agree with you, don’t feel like the “real deal” however when using the X-Desk I get that sense of a real console because I’m paying good money for just the sound and some insert points, putting it roughly. Anyway, great setup sir!
lol! yeah, to be fair I haven't spent any time with their new stuff, but I just get skeptical when I see too much crammed in for too little money. The X Desk doesn't really have its own sound, but it's transparent enough.... if you're inserting high-quality equalizers that have their own transformers... you end up with high end sound.
I'm thinking more and more about getting a Box II myself. And I think I've found, on paper, a way to sum 32 channel on that baby beast. For course you have the 16 summing channels. Then 8 recording channels set to "Line" (daw inputs). Then there's 8 more with this nice trick, if you could confirm... The Box has 4 "2 Track" inputs that can feed the Cue. If you connect the 4 2-track inputs to interface line outputs, can't you also connect the Cue output to the Summing Input (and engage the "Sum Input to PGM" button). Wouldn't this feed 8 more channels (4 stereo) in the mix, totaling 32? (You could still route your drum bus from the aurora Lynx to the 2-Track #1 (for example) so you wouldn't lose it). (You could use 2-Track #2 connected to your X-Desk, and 2-Track #3 connected to your RND Orbit adding 32 more channels maybe???)
I have to check if you can actually run all the two track inputs at the same time. I know you can't run them simultaneously with the program out. It wasn't designed to do what you're saying for sure but... maybe
@@hopetownsound Looking at the schematics of the Box (squares A-12 A-13) it seems to clearly show the 4 inputs are summed into the cue. And the manual (section 8.2.1) clearly states these "sources are additive". So this looks very promising. Still I'd love to have your feedback as to how it really works. (but if the manual says so, and the schematics show so.... ;-) )
Im considering the API Box. Question, If using the 8 inputs with the pre's on the left to mix drums coming in from your daw, can you group those 8 channels on the left to a stereo pair on the right like a Bus to process the entire drum mix? Also, how do you find the API Pre's when pushed for colour?
it would be a little odd in terms of patching, but I suppose it's possible. If you look in my videos, one of the early ones when I just got the board is about creating a drum bus using the AUX sends. Personally, I have my D/A converters directly patched to the line inputs (all 24) so I had to bring my group back through the "Sum Input" on the master channel. if you instead have the line inputs for the right side of the mixer come up on a patch bay then there's no reason why you couldn't patch the output of your AUX to 2 channels on the right. part of my issue with that is also losing 2 more channels. But it might be worth it. I ultimately solved the problem by getting the SSL X Desk and using that as a drum sub mixer. this also reserves the precious few AUX sends for FX. I might switch things around, however, and use the SSL for effect returns and use the Cue send to create the drum group (also returned to the SSL) hope this wasn't too much of an answer lol.
@@hopetownsound Thank you, I really appreciate your in-depth reply. If the "Box" had a couple Buses it would be the perfect kit. There's room for bus faders right next to the master fader too. Obviously from a mixing / summing perspective coming in to the Pre's with your drum stems is the ideal setup to get that API sound and saturation we want on drums, but we need to sum those drum channels to a bus for group processing before hitting the two bus. This would have made this mixer the perfect summing mixer for DAWs in my opinion. The way its configured its more like a sidecar with summing options. A missed opportunity for API. Im a real fan of APIs sound but I might have to go the SSL XL-Desk just for the routing but I want colour so that's not a real solution either. Decisions, decisions lol.
API has definitely purposefully left out some functionality to encourage people to upgrade. and it worked. I do want to upgrade but it's a heavy lift to go up to a 1608. I'm getting by for now just adding that little SSL.
@@hopetownsound Yes it was definitely a marketing decision to not affect their sales on higher spec models. The 1608 is a massive jump price wise and that's for a 16 channel while the Box is essentially 24 tho obviously 16 are just summing but still worth mentioning. I honestly think no one has made a perfect summing desk for hybrid mixing purposes yet unless you start looking at the very few "modular" style desks (Looptrotter) around that can be configured with 500 slot gear but man, they want an absolute fortune for basically an empty desk with faders!
The 1608 has flexibility thats not obvious, but yes... still a big jump. The part that you cant appreciate until you have it is the API sound. The Box is unique in how no-compromise it is. And the preamps are great. There no comparison with SSL pres. Also the flexibility to use the built in 527 comps on channel or the mix bus, even the 1608 doesn't have that. Soundwise...you're working on a $100k+ console. And that's very addictive :)
So can you insert a Neve 1073 mic pre from a lunchbox into one of the line inputs on any of the first 8 recording channels, with the console mic pre switched out? What is the best way to record using external mic pre,s? That leads to another question, is it possible to stick some 512,s into the empty slots just to make it look better aesthetically, obviously never switching them in or would it detect the fact they are preamps even though they are switched out? I think the 500 slots have their own switch.
well, I wouldn't waste high-end Mic preamps just for a show - if anything, it will look like you don't know how to use the console. they don't recommend putting preamps in those slots. You're better off having them in an external 500 series enclosure with a patch bay. and then, I suppose you could send it through the line inputs, although I dedicate my line inputs to the outputs of my converter. In general, when I use external preamps, I just use a patchbay and go straight to my converter and don't go through the mixer at all. If I want an API preamp, the mixer has eight of them built in. I find it's more useful having equalizers in the mixers slots.
@@hopetownsound Thanks for the advice, yea that,s a better way to just have my 1073 on a patch bay comming into a line input via the bay and kept in the lunchbox. I already have some spare 512,s and thought they could just sit in the 500 slot,s not for any use other than aesthetics for now until I can afford to fill up with more 550A,s. As long as I dont engage the switch on them I wondered if they would cause a problem.Your videos are highly instructive, big thanks for that.
if they're spare, I would sell them and buy something you can use. just y'know...lol. I have BAE 1073 preamps and equalizers for a while I had them in a Fredenstein 500 series chassis where i could daisy chain the pres to the EQs internally and make channel strips. worked well
right now I'm still using the SSL on the Mix bus and I'm dedicating the API to channels. It's a tough call (listening in the room). I still feel that the SSL provides some punch and glue that the API does not. I think it's going to end up being a matter of what the particular music needs. one reason I'm also going with the SSL which I'm not happy about, is that it actually has a make up gain so I can control how the signal hits the rest of my insert chain. With the built-in API compressor the only way to do that is by trimming every fader on the mix. I do have a pair of 500 series 527s so I could use those same way as the SSL... we'll see I may end up doing that more.
Hi there, i have some questions on how to setup this x desk with the current setup i have. Would you be available for a quick email for some information to help me out? Thanks in advance.
Insightful. My first API experience was about a month ago with the 512V pre-amp with Neumann TLM 107 mic and I couldn't believe the sound on my raps compared to my RND 5211 pre-amp. Maybe it was the API or maybe the mic and pre-amp combo, but either way I sold the RND.
Hi, awesome work... you have been my Box instruction manual ;) - I love this board, but have struggled a little bit having come from a hybrid console (toggle between DAW Mix and Tracking w/ 2 x layers of faders). Crazy question, would a D-SUB Y-Cable on the summing inputs be detrimental in any way? If it did not impact quality (shouldn't on a modern console) it would allow me to either sum my DAW through The Box for mixing OR sum all of my synths/drum macheens (Line Level) through the faders and leave all of the above plugged in. I could simply flip on the 0 switch when coming from the DAW to ignore the faders. I feel like this console begs you to hack a bit to maximize for your needs. I could also burn a bunch of interface IO and go straight to the DAW, but miss some color on the way in. I also considered another DIY summer for FX returns (per your comments about burning a pair of summing channels and limited Aux returns). For more context, I have a wall of synths and drum machines, use the inputs/500 series side for tracking and Mics on The Box, and use a Radial Space Heater (8x Channel tube summer) for drum/bass bussing/heating things. I have been trying to figure out where to best integrate my Silver Bullet 2 into this (it gives me 2 x more nice mic pres, color, and switching between Track and Mix on both input and output). I pre-ordered it before I got the API and there is some overlap, but I may put it on both the Program for mastering as well as straight through my interface (Red 8pre) for tracking --> DAW. Too many options, curious to get your thoughts as you've been down this road ;)
ok :)... so, the 0 button doesn't route from different inputs, it just bypasses the faders. For both of your questions, I think the answer is patchbays. creative use of normalling vs patching i think is the best solution. The Box does purposefully omit some features that would be really handy lol. APIs not so subtle way of encouraging you to step up to the next level. I get around that by adding the SSL X Desk as a sidecar and feeding it through the Summing Input.
@@hopetownsound - Yeah, I worded that poorly and know that's not what the 0 function does. I am testing putting a pair of Radial SW8's (D/SUB not USB version) linked on the summing side of the board so I can A/B toggle/switch between tracking 2x channel stuff and summed drums through the board and mixing from the DAW. I understand why API did what they did, but I wish they would have been more thoughtful in their attempts to not erode 1608 sales ;) - Fingers crossed, I prefer the API to my former SSL Matrix minus these limitations (yeah, patchbay, get it). This setup with a footswitch on the SW8 would get me back to a setup similar to the Matrix minus automated faders. I much prefer the tone of the API, hence why I sold the Matrix. These SW8's are < $500 used on Reverb and can be linked together. Flock came to mind here, but this solution is far cheaper and lets me push a button/footswitch to toggle versus turning back to the computer or yanking patch cables. Thanks again for all the inspo w/ this board.
First off it's the sound. The API just sounds amazing. It has a low end that the SSL just doesn't have. The difference between having 8 API mic preamp versus 8 SSL is also a big incentive. when you're comparing SSL to API, SSL will usually have the more impressive features, but you don't have to spend much time working on an API to understand how dramatic the sound difference is. Running the X Desk shows me that SSL can be very clean and large sounding, but it doesn't have any of the mojo that the API has, which is very addictive once you experience it. I did not appreciate how much until I actually had it. There's a magic in the mid range on the API that's unique.
Just read the manual and wanted to specifically learn more about the sidechain functions. But it‘s so worse explained in the manual that I didn’t learn a lot. So I googled and found your video. Nice explanation, now it is clear to me, thank you! I really also don’t understand, why SSL does not promote this cool routing function. Now this channel strip can also be a very nice deesser and more, which is so nice.
well, with an analog mixer you can just use aux sends from your input channel. most audio interfaces also have a way to monitor before going to the computer. The easiest way, however, is to just lower the recording buffer in your DAW and don't run any heavy plug-ins. Then you can go through the computer with very minimal latency.
@@hopetownsound Thank you. However, I do not want latency or buffer issues. I understand what you mean by using the Mixer via aux sends, but I do not have a mixer like yours. The last option is to use an interface to monitor my voice before it hits the daw, but no reverb, and what interface? I really have not seen one that does this.
any UA Apollo interface can give you zero latency monitoring and run UAD plug-ins with no latency, including reverbs. And just because you run through the computer with very minimal latency doesn't mean you'll have issues. There are lots of reverbs that don't introduce latency, if the buffer is low enough, it would be imperceptible. I don't know what DAW you are using, but a buffer of 128 should be just fine for low latency recording and running a Reverb. Cubase actually has a button that disables all high latency plug-ins while you're recording. The different DAW's all handle it differently.
I find plugins like uad especially sensitive to needing to be fed the right level, down to .01 sometimes. I’m constantly going back and adjusting output gains on the previous plugin to see if there’s anything to be gained from half a db or less up and down. The weird thing is you can often find things coming “in focus” that way in a way that really makes the plugins shine. And sometimes the settings make next to no sense. But if it sounds good, hey. Even stuff like eq and verb. For example the Ams verb can often sound best smacking the input at a level that would normally be “inappropriate”… but the emt plate verb on the other hand, I often am feeding it fractions of what other verbs see, and then boosting the hell out of it afterward with bitshiftgain. Seems to get a less “cloudy” verb that way. It’s all math and it has its (huge) limitations, you know? But there is a sweet spot for all of em for any source material
Sorry to take so long replying. i agree that gain staging is more important with UAD - i suspect this is because they do a more thorough job of simulating analog gear at the component level, and non-linear responses of real gear (transformers, tubes, etc). The weirdest UAD gainstage i know of is their fairchild. You really have to use the headroom setting and use the input metering to get it performing correctly.
Why not set up group tracks in the DAW....automate your tracks going to the groups/stems. Then send the stems to the API including the drums stem. Use the x-desk for effects returns and alike and stem that to the API. First 8 channels on the APi would require inserts so rack the 500 modules. 24 channels with inserts on the mix with stems. Automate the groups as required. You have lots of choice gear to insert as you desire. Just an idea that maximises the API flavour on all the mix. Now the next trick is to record also and you have it all. Love your posts they inspire. Cheers
Hey, thanks for sharing. I don't really understand what you're describing. I'd be sending the SSL to eight more channels on the API? The system that I have now, I'm using API EQ on the SSL channels and then the SSL is feeding the mix buss on the API so it's hitting the only transformers there are on the API. I could use the SSL for effect returns but honestly it's more useful for Drums because it has its own bus insert. This way I have two stereo FX sends, individual channel inserts, bus insert and 2 stereo fx returns all dedicated to the drums. It would be kind of a waste to have that on fx returns. If/when I ever step up to a 1608, then I could see using the SSL for effect returns. The other thing is with my current set up I have 32 channels that all have inserts, And I find myself using them a lot lol.
Sum the SSL to a two channel stem to the API on two channels only. As I understand the API first 8 channels cannot have inserts in the first 8 if your eq's are installed there? 24 channels all dedicated to stems on summing is more than plenty. A drum mix stem on the API returned to the DAW via the SSL in stem or track for track would yeild a sonic flavour. I find that SSL at the end adds so much goodness. Pushing the faders after valve & transformer , eq and compression etc you think you are there but then there is the Super Analogue sprinkles. Nice. Recording or grouping stems reduces the recall it's in the DAW so it's recalled. Out board gear think certain equipment on certain stems the patch bay can be preset and changed as required for something other than the pre configured/prefered as required. Minimum recall. Just sharing ideas...I went small desk Calrec for summing stems/recording and creating stems and SSL 6 as the utility parallel compression Stem recording into an apollo 16 . Valve mic pres Analoge addicts Joe Meek Twin Q2 Neve VR Labo K 2 Mic pre eq and dynamics Amek 9098 mic pre + 2 pres on the SSL 6 and 8 Mic pres on the Calre . I get 24 summing channels combined SSL/ Calrec. I only use 12 for stems on the Calrec I found the SSL adds more at the end of the line driving the fader after valve transformers and then there is more. The SSL 6 is very pro kit. Your x desk has that Super Analogue goodness too. Regards
Ah, ok that's not correct. you can have inserts on the first 8 even with the 500 series EQs installed. I am summing The SSL to a stereo input on the API. it's a special injection point on the master bus that is before the master bus insert (and the built-in compressor). It's literally called "Summing Input". it's a fantastic feature that they actually didn't put in the large consoles, which is interesting lol.
Seems you can have 32 outs to your interface using inserts on the summing 16 side of the box + what you have on the x desk direct out plus the left hand side of the box. Normaled insert send to your interface on the summing side of the box gets you there. The return through dedicated hardware or a patch arrangement get you transformer valve eq compression on mix down per channel. If you create groups/submixes/bus's in your DAW you can leave your self only recall on your hardware. The Aux set up across the DAW I/Os is well worth exploring. Cheers.
then you need double the channels of interface. 64. and it's also getting the audio converted twice. It's too convoluted of a system. The real answer just to have automation on analog faders and use it the way it's designed to be used. in the meantime, I can auto punch my mixes as I'm capturing them, and change the analog faders manually. It's faster, easier and sounds better. even in the best case scenario, people that are using aux sends, whether it's in the DAW, or the analog inserts are not getting optimized conversion levels. you just do it on the mixer manually, you have one well optimized digital to Audio conversion, and analog processing is optimized... its just better
I wanna weigh in so bad on this, but I really need more information. 1: Is it entirely necessary for 16 preamps? 2: Is there a need for an interface or converters? 3: Are compressors off the table here? So basically what I'm wondering is if this rig will be for recording and mixing or just mixing and in addition to that what does this person already have that they do not need?
so this is a complete hypothetical. It can be whatever you want. lol. The idea I guess is if you had a recording room and you were ever going to record a whole band. And beyond that it's mixing. compressors are not off the table but the idea was to compile a mixing board. To my mind, you don't actually have a channel unless there's an equalizer. What I have found to be the best value for the money are used purple action comp (500 series). they are excellent FET compressors. they are built like tanks so you can feel safe buying them used. And they're generally between $500 and $600.
@@hopetownsound yeah tbh I think you nailed it with your build idea for the budget. I really wanted to try to come up with a nice build idea that centered around a used SSL Matrix, but it would surely wind up over budget.
The matrix is a very interesting console. But aside from the cool trick of the digital patchbay you can get almost the same functionality from two X-Desks. Certainly the same or better sound quality. 16ch of the really good super analog headroom for around $4k is very hard to beat. it's a shame the X-Pansions are so hard to find.
