I have owned many trucks, and just traded my 2020 Sierra Denali with 3.0 Duramax for a 2023 Ford Lightning Lariat. I have rental properties and am always hauling cabinets, sheetrock, and other materials from the lumber yard to the job site. I rarely tow, but I do have a 9000 pound boat which goes to the lake in May and returns to town in September. For my use case the Lightning is great. It pulls the boat easily and the distance to our cabin is less than the towing range. A 100% fill up at home runs approximately $15, although I plug in every night and keep it at around 80% state of charge. These factors, combined with the fact that the current incentives made the Lightning cheaper than the corresponding ICE versions made it a great choice for me. Your mileage may vary.
My last truck was 6.7L F-250 diesel. I loved it, it was by far the best truck I’ve ever owned. I had an auxiliary tank built into my toolbox and could drive 1200 miles without stopping. It was amazing. I should be able to place an order on my Silverado EV reservation in the next few weeks. I passed on the Ford Lightning due to low range and charging speeds for my needs. If I still needed the full capabilities of my old truck I wouldn’t switch yet, obviously. But 90+% of my driving now is commuting, and the towing is good enough for what I need these days.
Thank you for this informative comment! The 6.7L is a beast of a workhorse engine. My logging crew friends and all the local miners drive almost exclusively Powerstrokes. It's the Austrian design work that was done in conjunction with Ford that led to some of the biggest diesel breakthroughs back when Ford first rolled these out (Powerstroke 6.0s? I can't remember). Diesels for work are still unmatched. Any one claiming otherwise simply hasn't compared apples to apples. Will that change? Definitely. But EVs have a ways to go to get there. Yes, I love the Silverado EV's specs. I have an order still - but I must say that my Lightning has been a great change. I charge almost exclusively at home - so much cheaper than any other fuel option, including DC fast-chargers - and my work is all local and short-haul towing, so the Lightning Standard Range, with incentives in Canada, was similar in price to the gas XLT when I bought it. I just did a video on the crazy changes coming to EV trucks, and how it changes the whole playing field, and soon. I think many of the density, cold weather, and cycle improvements might even make it to market in the next year or two. We're at the cusp of the beginning, but it will be an exciting ride, however it goes! Keep in touch!
This video was EXCELLENT because you highlighted some very elementary things, especially the 80-20 rule. I remember a couple in a Walmart parking lot charging their Lightning towing an Airstream. Assuming they were headed for Las Vegas, they would have to make some critical stops because of the tremendous range limitation of towing. I have seen other RU-vid videos showing Tesla automobiles towing trailers but once again the limitation in range still exists. However, EVs fit particular markets. I am retired and own a 2017 Model S. I don't commute to work every day I just go to the gym and a few other destinations here and there. I have a level-2 charger at home. For me, this is a perfect situation that suits my lifestyle. Even if you compare gas trucks with diesel. If you are looking for better pulling power and torque while climbing with a 40' fifth wheel, then perhaps a gas truck is not the best option. But if you are looking for a better payload such as a camper, gas would fit into the mix because of weight requirements. The bottom line is as you stated, trucks are more of a luxury and status symbol than something you use for hard work and so that's why that market is tapped and profits are high. Good content.
Wow! Thank you so much for the encouragement and awesome comments! How are you enjoying the Model S? My wife currently drives a Bolt and we've seriously toyed with the idea of a used S in the future.
@@truckedupevs I purchased my Model S from a hole in the wall dealership who sells semi luxury vehicles. The car only had 20,000 miles and with my down payment it was 40,000 out the door. It has the enhanced auto pilot and the 21” Arachnid wheels which probably boosted the price well over 100K new. It still has till September of ‘25 for the battery warranty. It was a diamond in the rough. No problems after a year of ownership. You and your wife should go for it. I really enjoy my Model S!
Holy smokes! Did you ever score the ultimate deal! That's a real inspirational story. I think we might go on a hunt later this year. Thank you so much for the info! @@davidthomas4489
I love my F-150 Lightning Lariat ER - it fits MY use case - but not all. You are 1000% correct - ICE and Diesel are critical and needed technologies well into the foreseeable future.
Thank you for your comment! So true. When it becomes some kind of 'war' as if there should be only one or the other, that's when improvements to ALL types of trucks can take a hit. We all benefit by pressuring automakers to strive for perfection to earn our biz, including gas, diesel, and hybrid as well as electric.
I saw a Chevy Silverado EV today, looked great. It has the same battery as the GMC Hummer EV (212kWh) with an EPA range of 440 mi & 11k lb towing (range drops to about 250 when towing). And I'm excited to see the BrightDrop Zevo400 & Zevo600 Charge Vans, both of which have a 175kWh battery, for 280-400 miles of range depending on use-case 😊🎉
With Ford pulling back at the exact worse time, GM could completely fill the gap with the EV RST. I have a pre-order for one in Canada, but the phone has yet to ring :-).
Well said. A added point for current charge times, for trucks charging on the clock. A 45 min charge for a truck vs a 7min fuel up, for a hourly employe is ~1/2. hr unproductivity by the employee, or added cost for the employer. True you can avoid the cost all together for the overnight, but for the daily haul of heavy loads 100+miles this is a cost. Not to mention, what if the employe dsent plug in at end of shift. A solution such as Hight current and voltage 1000V+ is coming but as you state not there yet. Not to mention the infrastructure. Currently High V high A DC charging can cost more than current fuel per mile.
Thanks for bringing up the issue with truck charging times and productivity costs. It's a real concern for companies. Let's hope for advancements in technology to make charging faster and more convenient for everyone involved.
Fair points for sure. But faster charging times are definitely coming. Chinese automakers are selling minivans with big batteries that charge 10% to 80% in 11 minutes. I figure maybe 6 to 10 years before that kind of speed is standard and mainstream in US made EV pickups. Or maybe sooner. And chargers will improve at a similar rate.
Great video setting the record straight! I would be upset to if I relied on a diesel truck and one side of the arena is saying they will be illegal without a new option that’s good or better. Yes, that’s a slide in camper you see in my icon with a Lighting 😀 just an experiment at this point.
I use my lightning for work. I’ve even pulled 10,000 lb flatbeds. I did keep my old truck and still use it when I have to pull a trailer longer distances. I look forward to the day when my electric truck can do everything but I agree it’s not quite there yet. 90% of the time I can use the electric truck. If I could just charge more places without having to remove the trailer I would probably be comfortable getting rid of the diesel.
@@truckedupevsIn my opinion, the lack of pull through charging seems to be the most annoying but also the most easily fixed problem. Just install the charger in a different location. Fast Charger placement is much more flexible than gas or diesel dispenser placement because no underground tanks or plumbing is involved.
People love to say the Lightning can’t do truck things. But the more accurate statement is that F150 Lightning can’t do SUPER DUTY things . (Neither can the conventional F150). The Lightning can do ALMOST all F150 things. But it admittedly can’t do some things QUITE as well such as towing. Even then It tows as much as SOME f150 configurations , but not nearly as far. But it also does some things the 150 CAN’T Do such as provide a COMPLETELY secure storage space (frunk) while allowing a completely open bed . So you can stop by Home Depot, grab some bags of concrete, or carry that stove home while securing the easy to steal chain saw or skill saw in the frunk. So unless long distance towing is a priority, the Lightning can generally replace a gas F150 even for those who use a truck as a truck.
I would like to see more vehicles with mods, such as the CyberTruck extra battery Or swapping the main motor. Or swapping to 4 wheelhub motors. And it would be really cool to see some mudbogging EV trucks eventually. We already know that Rivian, Hummer EV, And CyberTruck can do rock-crawling without a major gear box change
Yeah, me too. We're at the very early stages but when enough of these things are on the road, aftermarket players will swoop in, and owners are already experimenting with what can be done with these. I plan on doing mods on mine, but being it is a standard range variant, I might hold off and go extended range, or hope someone comes out with a range-extending 'tidy tank' before I start with lifts and larger off-road rubber. Thanks for the comment!
I'm just getting a chance to see this video. Great job for sure! More real talk and more empathy and more shared understanding is definitely needed as we work on how to address the problem of global warming. I don't see any looming threat to eliminate diesel trucks. Maybe I've missed something. On the other hand, we should definitely be working on what the next technology will be. And the good news, as you've noted, is that the technology is improving rapidly. For some use cases, it's already here.
Thank you, David! I really enjoyed digging into many posts and channels in the making of this video. It opened my eyes to some of the emotions and fears associated with electrification in trucks. You are so right. The next tech will help move us in the right direction, and the moment the genuine concerns raised by many diesel truck folk are solved, that's when we'll see higher adoption and acceptance.
The company I worked for was given an F150 lightning. A few weeks back, they had to take a load from Toledo to Detroit. It did not make it there without having to stop and charge. And charging on the way back. My 1992 f150 could d this all day without refueling.
I own one and yes, you're totally correct. My work applications means I never have to charge on the road so I just 'fill up' at home. That's the clincher. Until there is more density in the batteries and range can be improved, electric trucks can't go the distance of a typical gas truck yet. Thanks for commenting!
Toledo to Detroit is only 58 miles. As an owner of a Lightning standard range I can think of no situation, towing, hauling or otherwise that would require a charge in that distance. With one exception, not using the tool as it was designed, if you don’t plug it in overnight or if you did not charge it full overnight, then a 10000 pound trailer with a massive front end might require a single 15 min DCFC recharge to complete the round trip. Basically if you don’t understand the tools your using than you should not be using them.
Thanks for pointing that out. I didn't do the math on his example. The truck must have been low charge to start, or not plugged in overnight and preconditioned. Even with a full load at maximum tow load in my standard range I could do that no problem, even return, and I'm in the mountains. Sure glad one of us can read a map, Matthew 🙂. @@matthewmortensen7401
@@matthewmortensen7401 Evs do have weaknesses. And they should be acknowledged and addressed. But so many times those weaknesses are EXAGGERATED. Or the vehicle is used in a way to PURPOSELY make it seem inadequate. Or they’ll operate the EV in a way that they wouldn’t routinely operate their petroleum fueled vehicles, such as repeated full throttle acceleration.
@@dmandman9 They might, but in 12 years of EV ownership Ive yet to find one! A better way of making your point would be to acknowledged that no one vehicle can accomplish all LDV needs.
I'm so not surprised at the 80- 20 number. Way to keep your eye on the prize(truth), Simon. I've learned a lot here. This is such a crucial reminder that we need to rise above partisan banter and simply understand the responsibilities of corporations to serve consumers ethically with honest attention put into the true functional needs having a truck serves rather than encouraging media-derived status, centred thinking and the cuddly clingy relationship we have with unnecessary luxuries; repugnant, hypocritical and duplicitous are adjectives that come to mind, Musk being the noun. I do wish the 80 % would understand you don't need a fully loaded gas-guzzling vehicle just to follow that yellow brick Rd and that there are wizards on high who are quite happy to facilitate the optics that birth all the red herrings and overstretched dichotomies that, for example, cause the conflict between the two types of truck owners. Muskian Corpers cash in while appearing to be diligent without really listening or allocating actual funds towards improving functionality at all. Corporations understand better than consumers that it is consumers who have the power, so they wag us dogs like weathervanes... spinning, spinning ,spinning. Unfortunately, this strategy has worked for far too long. Thank You, Simon; at least for this moment, it stopped long enough to encourage actual critical thinking. Motivated reasoning profoundly guides the human brain's choices. I struggle to keep it in check every day. It takes effort. But this is NOT that. This is just one man pointing the arrow of truth at the layers we forget are there. It's just so very much easier to simply throw stones. These are the types of quality thought processes and observations we need to apply to all the devastating problems we are faced with. Not just this one. 2w Reply
WOW! Thank you, Lisa for the in-depth and amazingly well thought out response. It means a lot to get such great feedback. I also appreciate you supporting the channel!
Putting aside trucks used in a commercial work, all others are say, home owners. Most trucks out there are daily drivers. My Ford lightning is perfect for me. I almost never tow and it is my only car and daily driver. The best tool for the job in this case. Oh, I almost forgot to add this. When buying this Lightning I am replacing a 2016 Ram 4X4 Diesel 3500 which I sold for more than I bought it for. The number of times I towed with it that the Lightning could not do...twice!
It's great to hear that your Ford Lightning is perfect for what you need. Me too, and for me it gets used as a work truck. Ford really did good work, although it has room for improvements and I hope we see this mature further. EV trucks can definitely be versatile vehicles for both work and personal use. Thank you for sharing your Lightning experience!
Legislation should remain limited to incentives for a long time to come. We need to go EV eventually, but until they can meet all the current needs for the same buy in price, gas and diesel cannot and should not be legislated away in any fashion, nor should there even be any discussions of such a thing, as it scares people into irrational positions and behaviors in relation to EVs.
Well said! A carrot is always better than a stick, and nothing currently can do the work that diesels do. The last thing governments need to do is create more of the us-against-them polarity regarding vehicle choices. Thanks for all your great input!
I also think there are those who are purposely trying to mislead. They have taken the poor communication and used it to give people the impression that on X or Y day the government is going to suddenly outlaw gas and diesel and leave people with NOTHING to tow or haul with. But the government always does things in phases and allows exemptions. Example: emissions standards applied to cars, then to light duty trucks, and finally to heavy duty trucks. But the government had to force the auto industry’s hand every step of the way, otherwise we’d probably still be driving carbureted gas hogs or smoke emitting diesels.
There is Company in Ontario. They are a diesel electric truck company.The own a hybrid semi now. It's impressive. They have semi hybrid conversion kits ready to come to market soon and they have claim they will have conversion kits for regular pickups soon. They are claiming these kits will be both parallel and series style hybrids. Although the ramcharger probably gonna steal some of their thunder. Interesting none the less. I wish them luck.Good video btw
Thanks for the comment! Yes, there's a lot going on in Canada with Hybrid semis. I'm especially impressed with the work being done by Edison Motors in British Columbia, Canada. I attended the Fully Charged Live event in Vancouver last year, and the company was there. Sandy Munro was interviewing them while I was checking out their booth. This is certainly the perfect place for this tech to be advanced. With that said, I am not a fan of the direction Ramcharger took at all with this tech, and agree with Uncle Tony's Garage (ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-aFFeJFfY35c.htmlsi=MbvEi9SARPfGdGYF), Sandy Munro (ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-fYZ8ncLxQ64.htmlsi=_ZDysivR8nSBdzeC), and a LOT of truck guys who wanted a series hybrid but not with such a reliance on a massive V6 and a 27-US gallon gas tank, which tells one everything they need to know about how inefficient this system is. Ram is playing to the 'power!' card while completely botching effciency, and thus the need for so much complexity and weight. But hey, they'll sell tons of these. Unfortunately, I think truck folk would be better off with a straight gas Ram 1500 with the new Hurricane I6, or the REV at over 350 miles range already However, I'm hoping it inspires other automakers to see the opportunity here, and come out with something similar that is more efficient, and if it's the same company in Ontario that I am aware of, I think they might have the right approach over the Ramcharger. My two bits. Keep in touch!
@truckedupevs I had seen both of those videos you tagged before. I don't think it will be efficient when the generator is in use as well. The pentastar 3.6l has been a beacon of reliability. Not efficiency. Which is why the lead engineer said they used it. It was cheap easy reliable engine they already had in production. Theoretically they shouldn't sell a lot of ram chargers as the only play to the needs of a small base of customers. As only a small number of people need to haul 14k pounds and still use the same truck as daily driver. Still I applaud them with the efficiency of the electric motor for "in town" driving and the hauling numbers of a diesel when needed for as long as you might need. The design certainly can and will be improved on but for the moment it is the only one on the market. The answer to our fun debate will probably be decided when the release the price 😬😬😬😬💸💵
The primary issue with the 20% argument is that even in fleet trucks the average daily mileage driven is less than 100 miles. The percentage of people that use a 1/2 ton pickup to tow more than the daily range of even the standard range lightning is infinity small. Of that infinity small remaining towing group, an insignificantly smaller percentage of those travel further in a day than a single 15 minute charge break allows. Were literally talking about less than .001% of 1/2 pickup truck trips. The biggest thing that American pickup truck drivers regularly tow around is their egos and obese bodies. And for those using their 1/2 ton EV for all other purposes outside of long haul trucking the offerings are infinity superior.
I love my Lightning, which is standard range, but where I live, most of the diesel truck owners could never swap out their ride for mine. They are up logging & mining roads, and are almost always pulling a trailer. At least half the trucks coming or going are either filled with stuff in the box or pulling something for work. The moment someone hauls a trailer, the charging stations are impossible to access, and the range plummets. I know this firsthand. With that said, I understand all of your points. Thank you for your insights and comment!
@@truckedupevsWhile I get what your saying I don't buy it all the way. It is difficult for me to see a situation where workers are towing further than 100 miles a day considering that forest service roads and logging roads typically have maximum speeds of 20 MPH. If one is driving 5 hours a day there is not allot of time left over for actually working or loading. In regards to hauling, I know as a lightning owner and I'm sure that you as an EV truck driver have discovered that hauling goods in the bed does not really impact range. The major impact to range is wind and rolling resistance. I really do believe that Americans completely over estimate the miles that they drive daily. As I said earlier even the fleet average in the USA is less than 100 miles per day. But your response brings up a very interesting use case. We have an off grid cabin way up in middle British Columbia, the local logging companies log the mountaines terrain surrounding our property. They have become very interested in utilizing the Tesla and other electric semis because they can leave base camp with a full battery and an empty trailer, climb several thousand feet up to the logging areas, load full of timber and with the extra weight and associated kinetic energy Regen all the way back to sea level and fully recapture the energy spent ascending. This is not perpetual motion but rather by capturing the kinetic energy of the weight of the descending timber they more tan recap the spent energy on the ascent. Far too often traditional ICE vehicle drivers dismiss the vast improvements of EVs for the extremely rare perceived and often misinformed downsides.
@@bobbybishop5662The EPA, NTSB, FHWA, and Triple A all commission, facilitate and distribute surveys regarding annual mileage. This is not in dispute and widely excepted. A great test for you would be to divide the mileage you have put on your vehicle since you purchased it , by the days you have owned it then multiply that by 365. Statistically speaking you are very likely to drive less than I do in my EV’s considering I drive about 170% of the average American.
I have to wonder, if so many people are spending all their time driving all over God's creation every day, how do they get any actual work done? Of course, the answer for almost everyone is they stop driving after about 30 miles and start working.
I agree with most of your statements. I think that electric cars are already at a good point for most people. I would buy an electric car. But I enjoy camping and have a 30 ft travel trailer, and electric trucks simply need to improve towing before I will ever buy one. I hope that by the end of the decade, serious towing models are available.
Hey, thanks for sharing your thoughts and supporting the channel! I totally get where you're coming from. Electric trucks need to up their towing/range game if they want to win over camping enthusiasts like yourself. Fingers crossed that manufacturers are listening and we see some seriously capable towing models come to market.
I sure hope not. I own one :-). But as the video shows, anyone who says they're perfect is fooling themselves. Diesel truck guys make some strong cases, especially that there is NOTHING electric to replace them, so there should equally be no regulations 'phasing out' an irreplaceable work vehicle. Thanks for the comment!
I find that people with high IQs can hold a debate and make strong verifiable cases to back up their opinions. I would love to hear yours. As my video shows, diesel guys have every reason to stand behind their trucks since there is NOTHING in the market that can do what theirs currently do. However, according to a thorough study by Axios Research, it found the following average use of pickup trucks in the US: Shopping/Errands. 87% Pleasure Driving 70% Commuting 52% Personal Hauling 28% Towing 7% Avg daily miles: 60~70 An EV truck is perfect for this crowd. Thanks for commenting.
