10mm Underwood Hardcast vs Xtreme Penetrators for Bears 

I’m glad someone is answering these questions. I never find projectile comparisons always caliber comparisons.

I'd feel safe with either round. The penetrators are very impressive in that barrel. They go through everything I've seen them tested on, llla soft armor and bulletproof glass included.

Your 10mm tests are always honest and straightforward. There are a frustratingly large number of 10mm tests where the host will say something like, “Well, I couldn’t find any Xtreme Penetrator, so we’ll be testing the Underwood Hardcast against some Winchester 180 gr. FMJ”. That’s why real-world 10mm comparisons are so tough to come by. Thanks for doing good work!

I like the extreme penetrater round. Ive seen go threw almost every thing i all the videos. Plus you get to shot stuff with a giant Phillips head screw driver so its a bonus as a wrench head.

Great test! What miserable conditions to film in!

I know it's probably impossible to do in today's world of ammo shortages , but I'd love to see the 3 big dogs ( Buffalo Bore , Underwood and Double Tap ) in the full load hard cast world , go head to head on your set up ! Luv your channel and there usable info you're putting out . GBO !

After 55 years of poking holes in Alaska's big game, I place "energy" numbers in my least important pile. I trust bullet construction, placement, impact velocity and penetration more.

This was a comparison I’ve been waiting for since forever

At one time, I had a 10mm. Wasn't particularly impressed with penetration, loaded warm with 200 gr. SWC hard cast handloads, but it was very accurate. I tested my Super Blackhawk with 7 1/2" bbl. and my 4" Blackhawk in .357 mag. with Buffalo Bore hard cast lead loads, and the 10mm just couldn't keep up. The real surprise was the Buffalo Bore 180 gr. SWCGC at 1437 fps out of the Ruger .357. That load penetrated all out of proportion to what I expected. It's a combination of weight heavy for caliber, high sectional density, high velocity and projectile construction. I didn't use ballistic gel, as it was not available at that time (years ago) but I used wood as a medium, and the BB .44 mag load was close in penetration to the .357, but was hard-pressed to do better. The 10mm wasn't even close to either. I've put a few years on since then (I'm 75) and don't go hunting anymore, but if I did, I wouldn't feel undergunned in the presence of a grizzly or black bear (we have both here in Wyoming) with either revolver. Maybe the newer 10mm loads are better, but I'll leave that decision for someone like yourself, who has had much more experience with the 10mm than I. God bless America!

we don't have the type of bear here where I live as you do but we do have black bear . In the woods I carry a 10mm 1911 loaded with underwood 200 grn hard cast and feel quite comfortable . great video

Glad someone used their specialty ammo and not me lol. Definitely saving mine for a rainy day. With that being said thanks for your Finds! With that being said I had done a test of my own with the Xtreme penetrator chambered in 450BM and that’s not a round you want to be on the receiving end of. I had tested the round 150-200 yards for the best results and what I discovered is that it would penetrate a railroad tie, a piece of standard pressure treated board, and bust a cinder block behind all of it. So in disbelief I naturally had to put a few more rounds down range to confirm my findings which in fact confirmed prior results. Needless to say it’s a monster of a design and depending on the platform you are using the results are most definitely achieved

Your efforts are appreciated, nice work. To answer your question a porcelain tile backed by a 2x6 would be a better proximity of a brown bears skull.

900 ft-lb 10mm is insane yet also amazing

This has got to be my second time watching this video, and realize I need a G40 too in my life.

I have both plus the Underwood 220 Hardcasts for my Glock G40. To be honest, I would feel fairly safe with any of the three rounds loaded. Great video!!! Thanks man!

I've function tested several different bear defense loads through my S&W M&P 10mm M2.0 4.6", all with great results: Underwood Ammo 1. 220 Gr FN HCL, 100 rounds 2. 200 Gr FN HCL, 120 rounds 3. 140 Gr Xtreme Penetrator, 40 rounds 4. Buffalo Bore 220 Gr FN HCL, 20 rounds 5. Steinel Ammo 220 Gr FN HCL, 20 rounds I've personally found the UA 200 Gr FN HCL round to be the most accurate, out to 25 yards. In terms of penetration, the only one I've tested was also the UA 200 Gr FN HCL round. It first penetrated straight through one, and then later two, anchored 4x4 beams of pressure treated lumber (7"), and continued on to be lost into a dirt hill backstop. These two test rounds were not recovered. Unfortunately, I didn't have access to a chronograph to speed test any of these loads. UA 200 Gr FN HCL is my primary wilderness trail biking / hiking / camping large critter self-defense load here in southern Arizona (for black bears, etc.), backed up by UA 140 Gr Xtreme Penetrators, and then UA 200 Gr (Hornady) XTP JHPs. Good things! 👍

I’ve been really happy using Underwood 200 XTP for hunting and their 200 HC for bear defense in my G40 with Alpha Wolf barrel. Great video!

Good video brother. I'm 63 years old and been shooting normal things like 22's and shotguns on and off my whole life. I've owned and sold some bigger rifles but never shot them enough to become good with them. My edc is a bigger Taurus g3 and I'm just good enough with it inside of self defense out to 10 yards but beyond that I there's alot of room for improvement. The point I wish to make is that most of the handgun ballistic knowledge I have is what I've seen on countless other you tube videos. I've seem many different shooters use the same round and same sort of targets and get different results. One example was when a guy was running a 9mm handgun comparing the hard cast, extreme penetrators, and average range fmj through gel. Surprisingly the extreme penetrator penetrated the least of the 3, the fmj came ins second and the hard cast did the best. However they were all close, meaning they were in a few inches of each other. In another video which I watched just earlier theu guy was shooting a 10mm with a, I think a 5 inch barrel, and I can't remember the grainage on the bullets, the medium was sheets of steel, and the rounds were extreme penetrator, hard cast, and run of the mill fmj. The fmj went the least through the first sheet stopping on the second, the hard cast came in second going through 2 sheets stopping on the third, and the extreme penetrator the best going through 3 and actually the bullet became lodged in the 4th opening up the back of it. I think bullet design has alot to do with it. On yet another video I saw where a flat nosed 380 fmj easily out penetrated 9mm 115 gr round nose fmj. Even those with little knowledge knows a 9mm is a step above a 380 in power and should out do it but not always. One thing a round nose fmj bullet tends to do on occasion is to exit the side of a gel block. The same channel then pitted a 380 flat nose fmj round against a 9mm flat nose round, I think it was a 147 gr fmj and this time the 9mm easily won going through 2, I think they were 20 inch gel blocks and kept on going, The bullets were never recovered with the 380 making it half way through the second block. Judging from what I've seen on here with the difference in performance between the hard cast, the extreme penetrator, and normal fmj FLAT nose being so close one would be just as well off using an average flat nose fmj round as opposed to the others for much less expense. And another thing i've seen on alot of videos is that one must pay close attention when selecting any 10 mm round because alot of them seem to be woefully underloaded from the factory getting fairly pitiful chronograph readings barely being equal to an average 40 cal round. Then again I will try not too put myself in a situation where I have to worry about bear lol

old school = hard cast Many Thanks !!

Extreme Penetrators for the win. Man I love those things. 💪

Thank you for pointing me to this video. I spend time in rural SE Virginia, occassionally coming across a black bear on the property. At the moment my main carry is a Hellcar Pro 9mm, but when i go into the woods, i carry a S&W 40c. Thats what i have, so its what i carry. I will test it and keep it full of hard cast. Thank you again!

Chuck, I absolutely love your presentations--especially with my favorite 10mm, Glock Model 40 with the KKM barrel.

You gotta admit the hard cast, a 100 year old technology, is right up there with a considerably more complicated bullet. It only lost by a thin margin, I'd say it penetrated about 95% as well as that copper one.

If the hardcast is significantly less expensive, it definitely the favored choice. If not, which ever is available.

I use Ceramic Floor Tiles to simulate bone, I glue them together to represent larger bones and it does help keep the pieces together.

I agree. To bad the xtreme smashed so flat or I think it would have gone ever further. Great comparison.

Well, I love my G20 and it is good to know which loads do what. I don't ever expect to be around grizzly or brown bears... but this is still useful in terms of general hunting capability. The properly loaded 10mm is a great cartridge for sure. 40S&W is a great cartridge too but just not as powerful for "more than human" assailant needs.

UW just had a sale today… load of research came across this vid and ordered the 140gr xtp…. Thanks!!!!

What Lehigh is doing with bullet materials and design is great. And them partnering with Underwood makes for a supremely impressive combination. The 60 grain defenders in 357 sig are approaching rifle velocities and I would love to see how they actually perform. But I understand there probably aren't a bunch of 357 sig handguns in Alaska.

I totally was going for the hard cast. Completely surprised by the extreme penetrator. I think this video just changed my mind. I’m also thinking similar results out of the GP100

Im glad you turned me onto kkm barrel I got the 6.5 inch with comp, and the ndz 22 pound recoil spring to shoot the 200gr and the 220gr hardcast. I must say I'm one happy camper thnks very much.

Hey Chuck I seen 10 mm and had to watch! just bought the same chronograph and made a video with it. You do all this in the frozen tundra , Um yeah it just snowed 3 inches here and I hate winter! LOL good stuff brother !

Still like the 200gn hard cast rounds. I can’t believe it hit 787ftlbs. That’s nuts. That 6.5” barrel is pretty sweet. I’m gona go with the 5.2” threaded barrel on my G20 to get a lil more power out of it. Cool vid. Thanks. I think that’s a pretty good test to show just how powerful the 10mm can be.

Impressive speeds on both projectiles.

The difficulty comparing these 2 is in the difference in the weight and the velocity… high velocity skews the energy upward… I might choose the penetrator over the hardcast based solely on lower recoil but the hard cast with that much energy behind it would likely go through 2 bears before it stopped whereas the penetrator being much lighter would probably only defeat 1 bear lol.

Great video thanks for the link on the 10mm you keep making great video's and I will keep watching

Another great test !! Very informative and to the point as usual. Great work Chuck.

Just got my Holosun red dot mounted to my g40. Love it.

I’ve been waiting for this one!!! Both rounds will kill a big Texas hog. Love 10mil!!!

I am really looking forward to getting a 10mm. Those Underwood rounds will ruin someone's day with the quickness! Great video👍

Best intro music ever.

Love the comparison. I just ordered a KKM 6.5 inch (I think) Glock 40 barrel barrel for my 20. With the 4 port compensator. Your videos helped make my decision. For a barrel it was definitely not cheap but I know I’ll get what I paid for. My biggest threat is a 4-600 pound black bear or mountain lion. For me ammo choice is a toss up between the XP, 200 grain XTP or the underwood 220 grain hard cast. I feel either would do it but when faced with anything confidence plays a huge roll in the outcome and I think the XP at 1700 FPS would make me confident enough to mess with Sasquatch.... Thankyou for what you do

Thanks for sharing the comparison Chuck that was interesting.

For me I'm going with the extreme penetrators, although both performed well. I still need to get a 10mm! I'll look you up on Parler, just joined myself. Be well Chuck and God bless!

Great video I got both of these rounds up here in Fairbanks off of Chena Hot Springs Road.

Would love to see the same video on a few shorter barrel lengths : )

I enjoy your videos. Suggestion: If you're looking for something besides plates to simulate bone, use bone. Probably the best choice would be a cow scapula, but unless you have access to a shop that butchers whole animals, that could be difficult. Next alternate would be the wide flat rib bones from a cow--again, not something you'll usually find at your butcher, but more likely than a scapula. Third choice would be the bone in a pork shoulder--not as hard as the first 2 options, so you might have to stack a couple, but very accessible and easy to procure--no waste, after you smoke a nice pork shoulder and eat the pulled pork. Of course, I give my bones to my dog instead of shooting them, so if you have a dog you have a minor issue.....

Would you recommend changing out the stock barrel on the G20 in order to shoot hard cast (200-230 grain)? My main use would be hiking in Griz country (Glacier National Park).

Awesome. Thanks. I haven’t had experience with the hard cast. Waiting to pick up the KKM barrel for my G40 soon.

Load up some 10mm with the Lehigh Extreme Penetrator with the 4 flutes. Shoot it through a 1/8" steel plate backed by ballistic gel. Film it, trust me.

Hey brother. I got some rounds from Alaska ammo today. I also realized the intro is where I’ve camped before (at least im pretty sure) thanks for the video

I'm so taking a whitetail with a Hardcast 357 or 10mm this season.

I really like the penetrators! Thanks for the video!

I have both, but there's a reason that Underwood recommends the Penetrator for bear. However, I have seen quite a few people say they alternate both rounds in their mag. I'm not going to say it's logical unless you're really worried about a freak failure, but personally I have no concern with having either of these in the mag when I'm in bear country.

Carry xp's in my g29 for dog walking (heavy woods) carry. I switch to any decent +p jhp for daily carry (or even my sig p938 which is a little more concealable. My thought process is that I don't want over penetration if it comes down to a close quarters domestic situation. As always, I would never use my gun unless it was a last ditch effort to get away and protect me, my family, or any innocent civilians.

Lol I'm Alaskan and my last name is Underwood. I have a Rock Hill Armory HC THREADED 10MM(extended barrel, heavier springs) 16RD pistol. I have found the only real way to stop a charging bear is to make your own ammo (240 grain, 220 is not powerful enough) I stack Underwood Black Cherry Coated Hard Cast, and Jacketed Hollow Point, every other round. Can confirm it will stop a charging bear...just don't miss.

Either bullet - Underwood ammo - good stuff, as advertised and better - top of the mark.

Does anyone else wanna drink that water knowing it tastes better than the shit we drink, his tap water is spring water. Freakin awesome, nice video Sir, ammo is so expensive we are all getting some joy watching folks enjoy themselves runnin thru some ammo. 2020 is almost over guys...

Hard to say who the winner is. Looks like the XP rounds had a little less recoil and penetrated deeper. If all things were equal, that's not a bad tie breaker. The price and availability would be another thing to consider. Finally, the Buffalo Bore looks like it's a really dirty round, excessive and dark muzzle blast and possibility of lead fowling in the barrel.

I have some hard cast for my Glock 20 and for my Super Redhawk I have some Xtreme penetrators. I feel comfortable when I'm out with either firearm out here in Alaska.

Looks like both will work. Thanks for another great video.

Good luck picking up your brass!

I know nothing about bear skulls, but maybe a ceramic floor tile taped to a half inch plywood chunk the same size, IDK lol. I just think that gives some solid hardness with a little softer wood mass, gives the bullet a little challenge.

TFB tv did a ballistics gel test with underwood hardcast vs the lehigh xtreme penetrator. the lehigh went 27in into the gel, the hardcast went twice as deep at 5 feet and they ran out of gel. its important to note they used the lehigh xtreme penetrators and not the underwood xtreme penetrators which have a much higher velocity, but still interesting results. there is somthing to be said for barrier penetration through bones aswell as bullet deflection, id say both will do the job but im still not sure which is the best

Thanks this tests confirms that xtreme penetrators will work better than Underwood 220grain hardcast on waterbears.

Incredible video! This is the first time I'm seeing show just what a good choice this gun and round would make for bear attacks

I've never been to brown bear country, so I have no experience with hunting them. I honestly don't know which one would be best. The biggest animal I hunt here in Mississippi is wild hog. We actually have some really big ones, I'd probably pick the heavy hard cast for them

Awesome test bro. Something I been thinking about

Great comparison, both looked good to me. 👍👍

I'd choose the hard cast. Dinner plates and water are not a good representation of bear bone and tissue, I think the hardcast would make a huge difference in that.. medium. The copper is fast but just too light to keep momentun through less brittle and more resistant material. IMHO...

Those hardcast are cheaper and do well in other tests. Either is fine but for me it's hardcast.

You should do a comparison with the 357 and the 10 with Extreme Penetrators. Thank you.

Those extreme penetraitors are lethal 💯

When standard deviation is expressed as a percentage of muzzle velocity (which it should be), these 2 are about the same.

I think I’ll load up some extreme penetrators in my g29 after seeing this. Thanks for the pro tip !

Love to have that barrel. If u ever need a trigger for that 40 or 20, thats the first thing i change when i get one, be glad to send one of the stockers to ur figid lands. 😂

I like the lighter recoil of the extreme penetrator and no lead vapor

I’m partial to the xtreme penetrator. Something to be said about a bullet that can penetrate like that. But then again I’ve never fought a bear. So I know nothing 😂

Plywood is a better bone simulant than a dinner plate. Just make it slightly thicker than what you think a normal skull would be. Edit: soaked newspaper is also an excellent flesh simulant if gel is too expensive.

Thanks!

Great video and comparison between those rounds out of the glock 40!

I have the hard cast Underwood 9mm 147 gr. and 45acp 255 gr. that I carry in certain situations. The 45acp 255 grain is very accurate out of a G30 gen4. The 9mm 147 out of a G19 gen3 is reasonably accurate also. Haven't run them through the chronograph.

Hi, which round had greater recoil? Also interesting to note, that hardcast smoke plume is lead ladened. that coating doesnt do much for keeping lead out of those barrels where copper is very clean.

Great video . Lot of useful information. I have a Springfield armory TRP Operator in 10mm . I plan to deer hunt with it this year. Probably run the extreme penetrator

I have extreme penetrators but I called underwood and they told me it's 100% safe to shoot their hard cast ammo through my stock Glock barrel so I'm going to buy some

Test the 10mm G9 Defense External Hollow Point against the 10mm Underwood Extreme Defender 👀

The 140gr copper is $44 for box of 20, the 200gr coated cast is $28 for 20 But I' still stick with the copper... I think its more durable and has a better metal-on-metal crimp grip, and all that makes it more tolerant of repeated chambering/rechambering when its time to practice with something else.

Hey Chuck. So what was the conclusion? Either or of the two for black or brown bears? or do you have a clear cut choice. Hey BTW I think you have one of the best RU-vid channels for outdoorsman's guns/ammo/etc.. Way better in every aspect than others I have seen. Thanks for all the videos.

You must have had the extreme penetrators for a while. I can find hard cast all day long but the extremes are non existent. I enjoyed your video.

Impressive…..good revue

Dinner 🍽 with organic Gel behind it would be a better simulation

Could you please compare the Buffalo Bore Outdoorsman hardcast to Buffalo Bore dangerous game “mono-metal”? Also would like to see the FPE of the 10mm mono-metal dangerous game. Gun Sam tested it against .44 magnum and got less than 700 fpe out of his gun, high 600s, and about 1,080 out of the .44. The .44 absolutely blew it away in performance, like, to a degree you would think it had 3-4x the energy. It was just weird… so I want to see how the G40 would help. Don’t remember what gun he used. I also am curious if the mono-metal is just solid copper or not.

I have had that problem with the 9mm xtream penetrators in a 5” barrel but the same box ran great in a 3” barrel

Makes me wonder how the Lehigh bullets would do if they made a 200gr or 220gr vs the hardcast.

Wouldve thought the hardcast pc wouldve stayed embossed on the bullet after impact. I use both also ( my own hc) xp has less felt recoil and what i use for walkabout when im in bear country

Both are phenomenal rounds by the numbers

Step one: buy that sexy barrel Step two: buy that sexy sweet ammo Step three: kill Godzilla

I like the hard cast. Heavier. I'd like to see Buffalo Bores 200 & 220 grain H.C.s

How about comparing the Penetrator to the Defender or the Hunter?

i would carry the round that allowed me a follow up most easily.