Raziel: You know, its weird. The way Kain used to talk about you, I was expecting you to sound like an otherwordly elder squid god monster. Mortanius: I get that alot.
Mortanius was a tragic figure, and one we never realised until this scene. He tried to be a hero by attacking the vampires, but actually became an unwitting pawn to villians. Even now he's attempting to be a hero again and is willing to have himself killed by Kain.
Oh yeah. I imagine his being possessed by the Hylden Lord made Mortanius realize he was just a pawn in grander schemes thanks to Moebius, and that he had to make things right, which is why he must have put together Kain would be the Scion of Balance after learning he was Ariel's successor as Balance Guardian, and thus setting prophecy into motion. He was right on the money, and knew he had to atone for all he had done not just to Nosgoth, but also to Ariel (even if the Hylden Lord killed her through his body) as well as Kain for setting up his death so that he could be reborn as a vampire.
Mortanius is speaking to Kain, telepathically. The 'Unspoken' engineered the whole plot involving the killing Ariel / corrupting the circle; Mortanius realized what was happening and resisted, using Kain to slaughter the circle with the intention of restoring the pillars. Mortanius was heading to his meeting with Kain at the end of Blood Omen 1 (since he was one of the Guardians, and all of them had to die to restore the pillars, he knew Kain had to kill him, ultimately, and accepted this.)
Raziel put Future Kain's Heart (which is actually Future Janos) into past Janos' chest. The past one was hidden away by either Moebius, Mortanius, orcthe Sarafen
Moebius knew the truth (his office as the Time Guardian afforded him such knowledge) and rather than helping Mortanius to change it, used the situation to his advantage, in his attempt to erradicate vampires from Nosgoth entirely (see: Blood Omen 1). He misjudged Kain, and his plan failed miserably. (See: BO1 ending) The Elder God was the ancient vampires' worshipped deity. They were born and died like any other race, and didn't drink blood - and were devout believers in the wheel of fate.
Until the Hylden cursed them for constructing the pillars to seal them away. The curse made them immortal, hunger for blood, and gave them the sight to see the elder god for who he truly was (I think). Or maybe that last part is wrong. I think they may have committed suicide without knowing what it was, until they died. Can't remember. Janos was the only one that didn't kill himself.
God, Raziel’s expression at the end kills me. His quest started as one of vengeance, but after all Kain has done to shift Raziel’s opinion of him, now he’s faced with no other option but to kill him. He’s so conflicted he can’t even monologue about it.
"Come to me, my undead son. Make haste to the Pillars, the stage is set for the grand finale. You will have your vengeance." in Blood Omen Mortanius says this after Kain kills Moebius, but in Defiance Moebius is still live here. why?
@@steeveewuzzheer1992 The Elder God brought Moebius back to serve him from the vampiric citadel. By returning Moebius's hour glass to the Pillar of Time, fledgling Kain freed it of corruption. Moebius knows the events except when Kain & Raziel kill him, Elder God blocked his clairvoyance.
Its actually pretty feasible rather than everyone convuleted theories. The "card shuffle" from SR2 having changed the series of events, Mobius dies but its never by young Kain's hand and instead is murdered at the Citadel by future Kain. This also explains why Vorador is alive in BO2, Mobius originally dies after executing him but since he is instead called to the Citadel, Vorador isnt held at bay by his staff and ends up escaping and is never executed. As to why the pillars still collapse? Well the plot actually confirms this was going to happen no matter what, by either the corruption or the extinction of vampires, its likely this was gonna happen at this moment regardless if the human guardians died or not.
@Negative365 This scene is moments before Kain kills Mortanius in BO1 - after Kain kills Moebius, Mortanius contacts him and gives the 'Come to me, my undead son' speech you can hear him finishing up at the start of his meetup with Raziel here. Raziel interrupts him in the middle of talking to Kain before going to meet him at the Pillars. :)
I love this part, simply for the connection with Blood Omen it has. I have to say, that after playing Blood Omen, I think Crystal Dynamic's made a mistake with the storyline, but for Edios to go back to the roots and give a nod at the storyline, it gives me hope for a return of the Blood Omen style.
@21TheRonin Pretty much. The Kain in BO2 is the kain from BO1 - the young Kain. It happens during the events that would lead up to SR1 (where he's raising his army and taking over Nosgoth, basically), but because Kain and Raziel went back in time and the Hylden Lord was released (in Defiance), it happens differently than it did the first time (with Kain having some actual opposition).
@TheThordir I'm reasonably sure I recall the developers or Amy Hennig or someone 'in the know' admitting this was an oversight and was out of order chronologically. None of Mortanius' other messages took time to reach Kain (unless Mortanius had more understanding of the Timestream than Moebius himself - unlikely), and it seems odd that he would say "It's time to finish this, now" and teleport away, only to chill at the pillars while Kain was still traveling time, effecting the death of William.
@DrujbaDreptatzii93 BO2 is the re-written timeline following the events of Defiance. BO2 isn't how it happened the 'first time'; the events of the other 4 games make it possible.
@Throrine BO2 is effectively the end of the story - even if Janos had told Kain everything he knew, it wouldn't have changed anything - it already happened at that point. Yes, Mortanius us talking to Kain here, after Kain kills Moebius in Blood Omen 1 - he is calling him to the pillars, where he'll kill the last of the members of the Circle (Mortanius included), and, Mortanius believes, himself, as well, which we already know to not be the case.
doesn't the end of BO2 more or less directly lead to SR1 a few centuries later? Kain conquered everthing and raised his lieutenants whom he and Raziel killed in B01 / SR2 with the "now" ( = happenings in Defiance) sentinent sword, which contains Raziels spirit...?
@@ranzigerkaefer Nope... In the original timeline, (before Raziel's and Kain's meddling with it during SR2 - Def) after BO1 Kain simply raised the lieutenants and conquered Nosgoth. The events of SR2 - Def (especially Janos' resurrection) have created a new timeline where the young Kain at the end of BO1 resurrects Vorador, doesn't immediately resurrect Raziel and the other brothers, and has Vorador create a vampire army, which we see in BO2 intro. But he doesn't conquer Nosgoth this time, he is stopped by the Hylden Lord, who exploited Janos' body to re-enter the Human World. Then BO2 happens. At the end of BO2 Kain resurrects the Sarafan as vampires and we're back at the beginning of SR1. Basically the story comes full circle and everything repeats itself, the only thing that has changed from the efforts in SR2 and Def are that now BO2 exists between BO1 and SR1. Sadly we'll never know how Kain could've broken the circle, now that he has been purified from the corruption and has the TRUE Soul Reaver.
Actually those two side murals have nothing to do with balance it was just the two prophecies coming true. Raziel fulfilled the Hylden one by 'releasing' them and killing kain but fulfilled the vampires prophecy by 'arming' kain for the final battle. The middle one was just showing the result of when all was said and done. Raziel was mainly just a means of achieving it and was the Reaver itself.
@Joudas From the point Kain uses the time streaming device to go back in time until he kills Moebius isn't long at all - no more than a few hours tops. But really, the timeline is altered significantly by Kain's stint in the past, and theoretically, Defiance takes place solely in the altered timeline (since we don't see any rumbling like we do other times when the timeline is altered, and Vorador is clearly killed in Defiance's timeline, so it's not the original BO1 timeline).
to complete your sentence, I'd also say that,as portrayed in the final mural before the last fight of defiance, while on the left and on the right there are the two heroes fighting, each portraying a victory of one of the races that would be the undoing for the balance, in the middle there is kain with the final reaver, which means that raziel ha balanced the prophecies helping kain become the true scion and completing him so that he can bring balance.
Vampire savior is depicted as ancient vampires tought he will be. Like ancient vampires blue with wings, most likely they didnt knew exactly how it will turn out, since even janos who was ancient vampire didnt fully understood who is Raziel until he saw spectral reaver on his hand(redeemer and destroyer).So in those murals Kain is central figure with reaver blade while Raziel is/are both fighting figures.
13 лет назад
@Joudas I've started to think that, instead of Moebius' appearance in the Mansion being "out of time", actually Mortanius' line could be the one happening too early right here; since the call for the "Grand Finale" around what... an hour, maybe two? before the Pillars' final collapse. I think it would make more sense that Moebius truly was about to go and meet his end after the encounter with Raziel.
well... he could ho pthe the spectral realm where time basically doesnt flow , go where he needs to be and manifest back in the material realm and it would look like he is using corpses to teleport.
No it's because when he spoke to Kain in the 1st Blood Omen he was wearing a mask, a shield on his face that would give him this appearnace. Notice that when he sees Raziel he changes his face a bit with red (00:19) THIS WAS PROVEN FORM A LOK FAN SITE.
AH didn't know the story director said so, it was just my assumption. Glad to know I'm right :D Then the biggest deal of difference of our teories is just how big is the interconnection between the two roles. Ok it's allright, the main thing to me was the fact that Raziel is the heroes and Kain the balance scion.
If Vorador didn't kill him on sight, and if he knew where Vorador was, which is questionable, and if Vorador would even care - he had never experienced the Hylden, as he was not an ancient vampire - Janos made him, he was a human blacksmith previously.
@TheThordir That's what they meant by out of order chronologically. ;) The error was that Moebius should have been dead when Raziel visited the mansion the second time. The alternative assumption is that Mortanius gives his speech about ending things 'now', then spends days, perhaps weeks sitting around the Pillars waiting for Kain to get there. In fact, by that logic, Mortanius would have had to make his speech before Kain even leaves William's castle after saving William's daughter.
okay i'll buy that. What i didn't like is that on the mural raziel clearly looks like the vampire savior (the similarities between himself and janos) and Kain looks like the Hylden champion because of their complexions..etc.
It wasn't shown in the intro movie. This was likely due to them not wanting to throw confusing stuff into the mix that wouldn't be revealed or even discussed until much later in the game, them not being certain how it would pan out, or them not wanting to throw it in there in case the franchise did poorly and they never made the other games. But it's revealed in Defiance that Mortanius used the heart to make Kain. I'd try Amazon for SR1.
As for the murals, they don't know who is which - Raziel deals with that throughout much of the game; every time he sees them, he has a monologue wherein he debates with himself over which one he is, and whether he's fated to kill Kain or be killed by him.
oh i get it so the hilden in the great war put the heart in kain to confuse raziel so he would kill squid man and decease the pillars to bring bance within the siren.
No - this is actually a common misconception. In BO1, the demon is not Mortanius - the demon is "The Unspoken" - Mortanius is the necromancer that precedes the demon fight. Mortanius was being possessed by 'The Unspoken', which manifests after he is killed.
@dadman1988 yes but he is still corrupted. when ariel ( balance guardian before kain) died another guardian, napraptor found her and went insane which corrupted the whole circle so mortanius is getting kain to kill all of them, including him so that new "pure" guardians will be born which can then be turned into vampires
actually the hero for both races is Raziel as he fulfills the needs of both races and destroys himself by devouring himself in the reaver. Kain is only the scion of Balance an other prophecy of the vampires who gains their ultimate weapon the reaver completely uncorrupted from Raziel purifying him and armed to kill the elder god since the two reavers (psychical blade and wraith blade.) are united
Since we never saw anything prior to Moebius' demise in that timeline (prior to Defiance), who knows - it's tough to say. Really, if we don't assume the 'storyline error' explanation is accurate, it creates a whole lot of other inconsistencies (mostly dealing with some characters spending hours getting from point A to point B and others spending days or weeks doing the same).
@RednessAlpha You are right (why the thumbs down, people?) She admitted it herself in an interview. I think the problem would be easily solved if you just take out the "come to me" line being spoken here.
nothing will convince me that the people writing this story knew where they were going from the beginning. They did the best they could...so i don't fault them because everything else compensates for it.
the pillars are a binding spell, they hold the hilden, they are the Green eyes that Mortainus kept getting, the Pillar need vampires to guard them but Vampires are cursed by the hilden so they cannot reproduce and need blood, so they gave humans the powers to be vampires and guardians, however the humans rebelled and killed the vampires so regular humans have them however humans are petty sometimes which is decaying the pillars,
@GGMMPP Fair points - however, I maintain that Vorador couldn't really have done anything more than he did in that regard - he did indirectly assist Mortanius, by aiding Kain - Vorador could not have replaced Kain's role, nor was he in possession of the Soul Reaver at the time, and didn't even necessarily know where it was (nothing's said to suggest he didn't, but nor is there any reason why he would. How would Mortanius explaining the situation to him have changed anything?
thats what the story director revealed Raziel was both heroes since he 'saved' both races releasing the hylden and providing the scion of balance with his weapon and he was desiny to destroy himself which both murals show them getting killed. Kain wasn't any hero like I stated he was just the scion of balance the salvation of the vampires not the hero seen in the murals that 'hero' AKA raziel was only a part in providing the scion of balance with the means to fulfill his prophecy.
i don't get this: They're trying to say that Raziel is the Hylden champion and Kain the vampire, but that can't be. Janos is an original vampire. Raziel looks like him and the other blue nightcrawler guy on the stone tablets. Kain on the other hand does resemble the Hylden, if only in skin color
@Joudas So... the events in blood omen 2 are before soul reaver 1 right? and the imprisoned janos there was the one who gets possessed in defiance right? so if kain stops the possessed janos right after the end of defiance and after that somehow stops himself from creating his empire, and thus turning the world in a wasteland, Nosgoth will be saved and we get the super special awesome happy ending?
They tought Raziel is hylden champion while Kain is vampire one. Because of prophecy and murals on walls where they are depicted fighting. But in truth Raziel is both chapmions depicted there at same time so he stabs himself in the end. So basicaly all just read that prophecy wrong and only in the end Raziel understood it.
Mortanius theoretically could have had Vorador bite him, but as he did it, he was able to not only get Kain to willingly accept the vampirism, but also to use it to coerce him into killing the rest of the Guardians, without telling him the whole story. Plus, with Vorador's opinion of humans, and obvious dislike of the Circle, why would he have helped Mortanius anyway?
The Hylden, during their war with the vampires, used this in their ultimate masterstroke: they severed the Vampires from the Wheel, making them immortal (so they could not die and be reborn) and infused them with their bloodthirst. This drove most of them to madness and those that persisted banished the Hylden to the demon dimension with the Pillars. Mortanius knew full well what the Heart of Darkness was - but Janos was already dead when he used it. No harm done - at least not by him.
two questions.. Is Mortanius speaking with Past Kain when Raziel encounters him? And why didn't Janos just tell everyone, especially Kain everything he knew about the events to come/happen in the past or w/e when Kain freed him from the Hylden device. Or was the Kain, Janous encountered in BO2 already aware of all that.... ?????
if the side murals have nothing to do with it, then why the scion of balance is portrayed between the murals of the two heroes killing each other? to me raziel is both heroes toghether since he's nor vampire nor hylden though being similar in appereance and in weapon to both, he fulfilled in a very personal way both prophecies and in the process became the completion of the scion of balance, kain.
ok ok, but im confused about when mortanius stuck it in him cuz he was impaled in hell or where ever and then mortanius takes the sword out of him and without touching him mind you turns him into a vampire. by the way do you know where i can buy soul reaver 1?
i dont understand in blood omen 1 legacy of Kain, Kain kills mortanius in order to cleanse a pilliar yet here he is...does this take place before blood omen 1, i never played this before,i only played BO, BO2.
Don't get me wrong. I love the epic that is Kain's blood omen and the soul reaver tangent, but not at the expense of story, structure, plot, and character cohesion. This reminds me of Donnie Darko, how the only way to make sense of the plot is to go online or ask the people involved in creating it. If it requires supplementary information to make sense of it, the project is a technical failure. Period. That said, i love the characters, they feel real. but...
