6.8 SPC vs 6.5 Grendel 

90gn tnt's out my 18" bison armory 6.8 barrel 3k fps half " moa @ 100 yards.

@mgcreed Yes sir, I have shot thousands of them 90gr tnt's. They are fantastic on coyotes too. After the federal military surplus 90gr gold dot rounds dried up I ended up shooting the 90gr TNT's almost exclusively for target shooting. The CavityBack bullets are my go-to hunting bullet these days.

I shoot the 95 TTSX out of a 20”ARP barrel @ 3050 and have never had to shoot anything twice.

90gr TNT factory ammo from Federal does 2900fps from my 17.6" Lilja 6.5 Grendel, and 2700fps from my 12" Grendel. 120gr Federal factory AE does 2400fps from the 12" Grendel.

@jacobwooding1959 The 95gr ttsx Barnes bullets are great. I have taken a bunch of hogs with them. They do their job very well. I ended up trying CavityBack just because I was looking for a little wider speed expansion window from my bullets. I just wanted to run them through gel testing and compare results with other bullets. Out of all the expensive Gucci mono copper bullets out there I typically run back to the 90gr golddot when I can get my hands on them. They are cheap and used to be available in big numbers. They work great and are very easy to tune and don't require seating the bullet way out right off the lands or cutting / modifying magazines.

Well said. This is the same reason why I grab my 6.8 more my 6.5. The recoil is less and more controlled follow up shots with my 6.8 SPC. I hand load and have enjoyed working up loads for the SPC as well.

Well said. I am interested in ar15 hunting cartridges because the platform is light, handy, and versatile. Like you say, most of the alternative cartridges are tested with 24in, which defeats the purpose of the light and handy gun. Reduce the barrel length and these cartridges get sad pretty quick. On a side note, I notice many reviews of cartridges fail to mention barrel length and it really grinds my gears.

Cavity back 118 grn 6.5grendel is faster than any 6.8 even out of short barrels. 2550fps from an 18in barrel.

​@@youtubedude3422go 6.5grendel. Based on bullet performance 6.5 has better options. Federal fusion bonded 6.5grendel is the best hunting load. Hornady black is also very effective.

Wrong

​@@DinoNucciChuckles in WDM Bell with his 6.5x54 M-S, ballistic equivalent of 6.5 Grendel.

I'm not a hunter, but it seems to me that at the relatively short hunting ranges .308 with the right bullet will do everything. Cheap, easily available, lots of bullets, accurate, fits in a short action, great performance.

If I take a 129gr Nosler Accubond Long Range and shoot it from an 11.5” Grendel, it has more energy at 400yds than a 20” .30-30 has at 200yds. Now Imagine I shoot that 129gr ABLR from a 20-26” Grendel. .30-30s aren’t good for 300yds because they shoot round nose bullets with terribly-low BCs, but are great up close because you’re typically shooting a low-recoil 150-180gr bullet through the vitals. You can practice a bit more with a .30-30 Win because of the mild recoil and it’s a lightweight set-up for carrying around. Those 3 factors are why it has been used to kill so many deer within 150yds. 6.5 Grendel beats it in all 3 of those areas because you can have an even lighter firearm, with less recoil, but more energy on-target, and plenty of penetration to get through the vitals. Your sight picture stays close to the target center when shooting as well, and with the AR-15, you can get a lot of trigger time and confidence behind the gun, seeing your own hits. With a 20” Grendel shooting 129gr ABLR, it will maintain over 1800fps to 600yds at altitudes that are lower than where we see elk in the Uintahs and Rockies. 20” 6.5 Grendel AR-15, 129gr ABLR, 2460fps 200yds 2228 fps 1422 ft-lbs 300yds 2117 fps 1284 ft-lbs 400yds 2009 fps 1156 ft-lbs 500yds 1904 fps 1038 ft-lbs 600yds 1802 fps 930 ft-lbs This is where it hits 1 mil of wind drift as well, which is excellent performance. That load right there will kill elk all day at 400yds with broadside shots. You can practice with it more than any other hunting rifle that has adequate performance for large game. I shoot long range a lot, at least once a month. I can get 250 trigger pulls in a day easily with 6.5 Grendel, with over a 90% hit rate on 12” steel plates at 600yds. 400yds is boringly-easy even with the little 12” barrel Grendel using a reticle meant for .308 175gr SMK from a 16” barrel.

Yep, I disagree with his assessment 6.8 not being good for deer. I've shot whitetails out to 182 yards and have not had a deer go more than 20 yards. Bullet selection is important (in any caliber); Triple Shocks and Gold Dots all do the trick. I'm not bad mouthing the Grendel, I have one as well. But for me, I have zero issues with the 6.8. I wouldn't take either elk hunting though.

I appreciate that you like to put the big sneak on them. I agree with your caliber selection as well 👍

I love to stalk, but when you're only hunting a 40 to 50 acre woid lot, there's not much opportunity for it.

What rifle was your 8 and 7 mauser, were they old classic milsurps? Which loads/bullets did you use as a teen? Now that is an underated elk round and a classy old cartridge

I use a 7x57 for deer and 8x57 for everything big

I agree 100%! Neither the 6.8 spc or 6.5 G are what I consider respectful and considerat calibers to use for elk. Will either kill an elk, yeah I'm sure they will. A 22lr shot between the eyes of an elk at close range will kill an elk but it doesn't make it right. These are completely unethical calibers for large species like elk. The smallest caliber I'd go would be a 308 and that would have to be a really close shot. Say 200yrds in. For elk (especially bulls) stick to a magnum round.

Both of them will smoke the heart/lung intersection of a broadside elk within 200yds with the right bullet and well-trained shooter who knows their limits. There are a lot of shooters who have only zeroed their 7mm Mag, .30-06, .270 Win, .300 Win Mag, .300 RUM who will jump at the opportunity to break a shot at 400yds they have no business attempting, even though their rifles are more than capable of making that shot. Sometimes they get lucky, and sometimes they don't. It's very hard to get trigger time with the above rifles and keep the bases, rings, and scope still zeroed, and not develop recoil sensitivity. Most shooters don't know about Loc-tite and bases or rings, torque specs, quality vs Chinesium trash rings and scopes. Most don't train with their rifles either. For the hunter who checks zero and then heads out with a fresh tag in-hand, expecting miracles, they should keep their shots within 200yds no matter what they shoot anyway. For experienced shooters who have a lot of trigger time connecting on vital zone sized targets, they know their limits if they're honest with themselves and are willing to let a sketchy shot go.

@@LRRPFco52 Your shot placement had better be right on. That's an awfully big animal to be taking with a light bullet. Mule deer or whitetails, it's fine. If you're using a .277/6.8mm for Elk, you should probably be launching it out of a .270 Win case.

If u reload 7.62x39 can easily be converted to 6.5grendel. I'm getting 1000pieces of used 7.62 brass for 80$. Also ppu. And Hornady frontier 6.5 is 15$ a box on ammo seek.

Yup a 270 win is also a really good deer caliber, I killed many deer with it.

You can’t go to the range and get 50 trigger pulls in behind a .30-06 hunting rifle, so your hit probability will suffer unless you have another rifle that is set up the same (same trigger, same optic) that has way less recoil. Been there, done that, got the whole sweatsuit with a lifetime behind .30-06, .300 Win Mag by the pallet, .270 Win since I was 8, .338 LM by the ammo can, .260 Rem by the thousands I’ve hand-loaded myself, 6.5x55, .264 Win Mag (mmm mmmm mmm), 6.5 Rem Mag, 7mm Rem Mag, 7mm-08, .308 by the pallet both M118 and M118 LR, along with 168gr and 155gr Scenar, .25-06, 6.5 Creedmoor, .243 Winchester, .223 Rem/5.56 by the pallet/case, etc. I agree on the logistics. .30-06 is everywhere. For someone with experience like me, it doesn’t matter what cartridge or chambering will be used, I’m going to put the bullet exactly where I want it to go, or I’m not breaking the shot. I can build confidence with the rifle better with 6.5 Grendel than any of the above because I watch my own impacts in the scope, which isn’t happening with any of the other cartridges except .243 Winchester with lighter loads and .223 Rem, neither of which pack much bullet weight like in the 120gr weight class and higher. Grendel is Goldilocks.

If a 120-130gr hunting bullet impacts the elk's vital zone at around Mach 2, perforates that vital zone with double caliber expansion, what happens?

@@LRRPFco52 I didn't say 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SPC COULDN'T kill an elk, I simply stated that neither cartridge is a good choice dedicated for big game like elk.

@@ErickaC-mc7vg Neither is something I think of for shooting elk at longer range. Quite a few people have used 6.5 Grendel to take cows and smaller bulls from 50-405yds. I was surprised when Mark LaRue shot a bull in WY with a 20" Grendel he built, using 120gr TSX. It piled up within a few steps after he shot it at 405yds. Most ethical elk hunting guides don't like their clients taking shots beyond 300yds, and help them stalk into a good position to make a clean shot. We're seeing a trend now where some guides are encouraging their clients to take ELR shots past 1000yds so they can pack as many harvests into a short time as possible and cash out. I do private LR courses for hunters who draw out limited bull tags, and the last one used a 300 PRC. We did 2 different courses in canyon terrain with tons of steel at different ranges. After the 2nd course, we determined his 95% hit probability into broadside vitals from field positions was 600yds. He made some repeated hits on 12" steel at 800yds, but not consistent enough to be comfortable. He told his guide this, and as soon as they saw a big bull at 1100yds, they were almost yelling at him to shoot it. He wasn't comfortable with that shot, and stalked closer to 800yds, then made several shots, then it ran off. They spent the next day tracking it and finally found it. It was very sketchy. For my skill level, 300-400yds hitting a broadside elk vital zone is boring, just because I've been shooting LR professionally since 1995. The right bullet will plow through the vitals, expand, and destroy critical heart/lung tissue on an elk or mule deer, and they will expire rapidly. I think I would lean on the 129gr ABLR for that, which expands down to 1300fps. Stalk into 300yds and only accept a broadside or quartering away shot. Their hearts are 8"-10" tall, easy for a well-trained shooter to hit the top of the heart and blow through both lungs. Heart is between the 4th and 5th ribs. Hit a rib and you do even more damage, because the projectile expands more and showers fragmentation into the heart lungs as the core sails through them. If people train with their cartridge on heart/lung targets with lots of trigger time in field positions, know their limits, and make their hits through that vital zone, the elk will go down quickly. .243 Win, .25-06, .257 Roberts, 250 Savage, 6.5x54 M-S will all be more than capable of making that shot with immediate lethal results. 6.5 Grendel and 6.5x54 M-S are equivalents. I find it easier to pack more round count into time at the range with 6.5 Grendel while seeing my own hits, which builds a lot of confidence as you see your own impacts on steel.

I'd never chose either 6.5 or 6.8 to go elk hunting. If I was deer hunting, and had either one (OR a 30-30), and a nice bull happened by.... if I couldvget close enough to take a good clean killing shot (maybe a neck shot), then I might pull the trigger.

@@arthurshingler2025 An 11.5" 6.5 Grendel shooting a 129gr ABLR has more energy at 400yds than a 20" .30-30 has at 200yds. 129gr ABLR will expand to at least .50 caliber within 300yds and is bonded, so it plows through.

They overlap at the muzzle when you look at equal barrel length fleet data for 120gr factory ammo. 120gr in 6.8 tend to be in the .3xx to .400 G1 BC region, with 120gr SST having the highest. 120gr 6.5mm bullets tend to be .421 to .497 G1 BC. 123gr SST is .462 (Litz). 129gr in 6.5 Grendel are .495 to .562 G1. You see energy retention/impact velocity advantages from that downrange in favor of 6.5 Grendel from equal barrel lengths. 6.8 guys will counter that SPC II increases the velocity by 200fps with hand loads in special bore rider shallow-rifled barrels that are nitrided, without showing any large data studies.

@LRRPFco52 I think the SPC II guys are just siting their own experience with reloads. I've not seen or read of any of the 6.8 guys getting 2600 fps from a 123gr projectile in a 24" tube which is what i get in my Grendel with factory SST loads, but I have read from both camps that they get roughly the same velocity from barrels that are 18" or shorter.

I love this. It is still going on 20+ years later! Still 6.5G is a winner.

Cavity back 6.5grendel 118 grn is 2550 fps from an 18 in Barrel. It's performance is better than any 6.8 load even in short barrels. The 6.5 still can reach 1000yds in a 12 in Barrel. 6.8 can't do half of that

@jjjr.1186 I love my 6.5 Grendel, but that right there is a crock of horse poo. 6.5G is certainly better at distance than the 6.8, but that's because the Grendel was designed to maximize the range of the AR15 platform for both hunting and competition, where as the 6.8 was designed to provide increased lethality at intermediate ranges, specifically with shorter barrels. There is a difference between the 2, but the difference is small; so small that in application, it's hard to even measure. In reality, most of the difference can be attributed to projectile designed and availability and not the cartridge design itself. 6.5/.264 projectiles have been around since before 1900, and their roots are in hitting hard at distance (ie 6.5 swede), where as the 6.8/.277 projectile selection is much smaller and are primarily designed around hunting intermediate size game within 500 yds. That's always been my complaint about the 6.8, the bullet selection sucks, and unlike other calibers (.224, .243, 264, and .308) there haven't been a lot of new offerings to accompany any of the smaller, more modern cartridge designs such as the 6.8.

Jason Peterson takes deer at close to 400 regularly with his 6.8 since his field is 800 yds and his stand is in the middle.

@@crashdsnowman1 idk who that is. Not saying you cant make shots at longer ranges. With most factory loads (2400-2800fps depending on weight)after 200 yards yards the kentic energy drops fast. I hear handloads can get some great results out to 400 though. 120 gr bullets moving in the 2700fps area 90 gr in the 3000s

Fudd lore straight from Ron spoomer

Probably Remington bullets. If you handload, and have enough of them to fool with (several hundred), then go ahead and work up a load for your '06 or 308. The deer won't complain.

Sir, you don't "hop up velocity" with steel base cases. Max. Av. Chamber pressures are established by SAAMI for each cartridge. Manufacturers and handloading manuals adhere to these. The rifle barrel/chamber must contain the pressures regardless how strong or weak the base of the case. Barrels/actions are generally built to safely withstand significantly higher pressures than these, but one does not want to push the envelop nor tempt fate. Many a one-eyed, fingerless handloader had learned this lesson.

@Ron Spomer Outdoors I understand. I'm taking about like 6.8x51 using hodgen pistol data. Used in bolt gun only

Which 130gr bullets are you shooting and what twist do you have? 130gr Berger Classic Hunter is actually a good target bullet for 6.8 SPC if you load it in PRI mags with longer COL. Basically duplicates a 120gr 6.5mm BC, but won’t go as fast from the same barrel lengths. They hit hard on steel though, but cost a lot.

@LRRPFco52 my favorite is the speer 130 spbt, super accurate but low bc. I load the 130 sst for my longer range target round. with modified magazines I load an oal of 2.350. That load gives me 2550 fps from my 20 inch ARP barrel, I've shot it out to a 1000 yards. My one rifle has a YHM barrel with a 1-10 twist and my ARP barrel has a 1-11 twist. The 130 berger would be the best choice but they are pretty expensive.

@@Dfleuryoutdoors The .277” 130gr SST has about the same BC as the 123gr 6.5mm SST, even though Hornady lists the 123gr SST at .510 G1. It’s really .462 per Litz/Applied Ballistics. They undervalued their 129gr 6.5mm SST at .485, when it’s really .495 G1. A 130gr with .460 G1 at 2550fps is a great LR steel load, basically duplicating some of the 120-123gr 6.5 Grendel loads, but with more momentum due to the 130gr weight. Are you clipping mags to get 2.350” COL?

@LRRPFco52 the only downside to the SST bullets is the tips melt and deform at further ranges but for banging steel it has worked great. Yea I cut out the front of the magazine to allow me to load longer.

@LRRPFco52 the only downside to the SST bullets is the tips melt and deform at further ranges but for banging steel it has worked great. Yea I cut out the front of the magazine to allow me to load longer.

Yeah, I agree with you. If you're going to go down into the 6's, you'd want to make sure you're chucking heavy bullets. 6.5 Swede has taken a lot of large game, but it has no problem with 140gr+ bullets. Hornady sells factory ammo at that weight. Federal makes 156gr loadings.

Or switch to 6.8 spc. My Grendel stack isn’t too rich so I wouldn’t feel about it

Rock, only you can decide what you'd like to do with your Grendel. If you like what it does, keep it. If you want different performance, search for a cartridge that does what you want.

@@RonSpomerOutdoors yes sir. Thank you taking out the time to reply. I’m a young and semi new shooter still learning the ropes of course with rifle calibers. I was thinking of adding another caliber to my collection since 5.56 is going through it and Grendel is somewhat scarce.

@@Rocksteady713 If you wish to add a cartridge for your AR15 size rifle, you'll gain more by going significantly larger than the 6.8 SPC if you keep the Grendel. Look for something in 7mm, 30-cal. and even 45-caliber.

I’ve been loading the 6.8 spc since 2004 , I’ve stepped it up to a 130gr SST and it handles it well in my AR , I never go out in the woods of Idaho without it, took a bear with it .. couldn’t ask for a better round in the AR platform

SPC is a joke compared to the Grendel.

@@actionjksn You clearly have no experience with the SPC. They are equivalent hunting cartridges with the edge in speed and energy in the first 150 yards to the SPC. The Grendel only pulls away when used as a target cartridge at over 500 yards, well beyond its effective hunting range. What fools many people is that most of the velocity tests of the 6.5 Grendel are done with a 24" barrel and the 6.8 SPC uses a 16" barrel (it is in the SAAMI specs for each). The most common barrel length for both is 16".

@@jfess1911 Most common barrel lengths from 2003-2009 for the 6.5 Grendel were 20-28”, then 18”. From 2009-forward, 18” became really popular. I started out with 16” and found the velocities with the same bullet weights to be the same as 6.8 SPC, but since the BCs are much higher, it walks away from the 6.8 out of the gate in terms of velocity. I’ve always compared 16” to 16” or 18” to 18” when looking at the two. Factory 120gr SST 6.8 does 2460fps, same as 16” 6.5 Grendel with 123gr SST. The 120gr 6.8 SST BC is listed at .400 G1. The 123gr SST is listed at .510 G1, but this is exaggerated. It’s actually in the .462 G1 region per Bryan Litz. Either way, a .462 G1 BC 123gr will walk away from a 120gr .400 G1 bullet when fired at around the same speeds. They both hit really hard within 200 yards, which is plenty for hunting medium and even larger game. The Grendel will maintain more momentum at distance, giving you a little more effective range and expansion threshold using the same construction. When you add the 129gr ABLR to the mix, it extends the effective range much farther, well beyond the capabilities of 99% of shooters. Great for Micro Carbines and pistols with short barrels.

@@LRRPFco52 I have always found it humorous that the Grendel and SPC camps vastly underestimate the other's performance. If indeed the SPC guys were only getting the listed velocity, at 300 yards, there would be only a 75fps difference with the Grendel (using the Hornady calculator). Easily a 300+yard, ie "comparable" cartridge for the typical hunter. In the last 10 years or so, typical numbers for the 120grain SST tend to be well over 2500 fps. This matches your reported numbers to about 350 yards. The physics of the situation show that to be realistic. Similar propellant volume, higher pressure, larger base surface leading to higher swept volume in the bore. This is not rocket science. The current top factory loads for the 6.8 SPC are made by Druid Hill Armory and use monolithic Cavity Back 105 and 120 gr bullets*. The 120grain typically reaches over 2700 fps from most 16" barrels (and about 2750 fps from the ARP barrels). Although the BC is only .365 G1, they show decent expansion down to about 1400 fps. Even if you drop 100fps from the claimed velocity, this gives them an effective hunting range of over 400 yards. * Only for "improved" 6.8 SPC chambers (SPCII, Noveski MOD1, ARP, Bison Armory, etc). After early issues overpressure issues traced to flawed reamers and barrels with undersized interiors, improved chambers have been used for virtually all 6.8 SPC rifles (since about 2009)

Actually, they use a 16” barrel for their numbers.

Most ethical hunting guides will stalk their clients to within 300-350yds of elk before setting them into position to make a shot. A little 20” AR-15 in 6.5 Grendel with the 123gr SST, 129gr SST, 129gr ABLR, 120gr Barnes TSX, 130gr Berger Hunting VLD, or Maker TREX bullets will put the elk down no problem in those parameters. Even a really short barrel will do it with 129gr ABLR. A longer barrel will make a slightly-faster kill due to impact velocity, but it isn’t that much of a difference. If you’re going for double lung shots, all of those loads will plow through and end up inside the skin on the far side, or perforate through and through. 129gr ABLR and the Maker TREX bullets will expand to .50 to .60 caliber. If you shoot suppressed, the elk will be less inclined to bolt on you as well because they still haven’t figured out what’s going on. The louder muzzle blast rifles tend to spook them more, confirming the reality of danger, even though they might not have felt anything hit them. No mater what you shoot, suppressed is the way to go for reducing travel distance from the shot.

im gonna take a elk down with .32 acp

​@@popinmoshot placement is key, there was an elephant killed by a 22 short at one of the worlds fairs.

You know what the biggest problem is with any rifle ? It’s about 3’ behind the scope. Don’t blame the cartridge, if you don’t know about proper shot placement. Look up “W.D.M Bell”

Owner at larue precision dropped a bull elk at 400yds with 6.5G with a fierce cross wind. It's plenty, just needs somebody with common sense and good shot placement.

@@cameronantinori9715 Yup. He did it with a 20” 6.5 Grendel, topped with a 1-4x Burris LPVO, using 120gr Barnes TSX at 405yds.

6.8 SPC was just taking off in both AR and bolt guns, and I believe the military was looking at it, when the Sandy Hook incident happened and the AR world snubbed up for a bit. It was followed by panic buying of AR's and the public interest in 6.8was diminished

Alexander Arms controlled the specs before SAAMI standardization and had a really well-engineered set of specs before Hornady took it to SAAMI. If "fell by the wayside" means over 100 factory loads, SAAMI and CIP approval, with steel case to Federal Gold Medal Match, that’s an interesting set of metrics. 6.5CM will never have steel case, for example, and doesn’t have PPU economical options. 6.5CM doesn’t fit inside the AR-15 either. That AR-15 compatibility and a wide range of ammo selection means it isn’t going by the wayside, and it’s a great deer season and hog-hunting cartridge with far less recoil than the 6.5CM. I have them all, .260 Rem, multiple .308s, 6.5CM, .270 Winchester, .30-06 Springfield, etc. For things I would traditionally use a rifle for, I shoot 6.5 Grendel now more than any other. You can watch your own rounds go in without sight picture disturbance, and still hit hard. None of the others offer that.

AK vs AR has nothing to do with it other than the fact that a 6.5 Grendel is a necked down 7.62x39 so themags are interchangeable.

There are AR pattern rifles chambered in 6.5 Grendel, but no AK pattern rifles in 6.8 SPC, and the Grendel is much more popular and commonly used in AK pattern rifles in Eastern Europe, be it for hunting or as a military round.

@@Winkler_B_Rudolf_1911 The AK can be easily made to fire a 6.5 Grendel but not a 6.8 SPC, but an AR can shoot both equally well. In fact, both rounds were specifically designed to be used in an AR platform. Honesty, I have no idea why someone would chamber an AK in anything other than 7.62x39. Generally speaking, the platform isn't accurate enough to take advantage of any additional range you could get from a different cartridge (such as a SPC or a Grendel). However, IF a person were going to choose something different, the Grendel makes sense because the magazines are interchangeable. It's kind of like 5.56 and 300 blackout in an AR. My guess is that it would be very difficult to get an AK to feed any cartridge that's not based on the 20 Russian. That leaves the 7.62x39, 6.5 Grendel, 224 Valkery, and the various PPC cartridges. The 6.8 SPC is not on that list and would likely take significant modifications in order to feed from an AK. The design of the AK is not conducive to being modified. Combined, there is very little reason for someone to develop an AK that shoots something different. In contrast, it's very easy to build an AR that's capable of 1/2 MOA accuracy, and it's design lends itself easily to modifications. That's why it has been made to shoot pretty much anything that can fit in its 2.26" magazine. They have been successfully built in everything from 22 long rifle to 450 bushmaster and 50 Beowolf. So it's not that one is better in an AK and the other is better in an AR. It's that there are only a handful of cartridges that the AK can be easily adapted to and the Grendel is one of them, where as its cheap and easy to get the AR to shoot a LOT of different cartridges well.

@@nospam3409 As far as I know, the AKs chambered in 6.5 Grendel used by Serbia are called Zastava M17, and Belarus bought some of them for their Spetsnaz units. It's more something that's meant to be used as a DMR in semi-auto mode, and as an LMG in full auto mode, like the M27 IAR/M38 DMR, which means that the Zastava M17 has a longer barrel than a standard AK. I don't know about it's accuracy but it surely performs much better than an AKM or Zastava M70. And in Russia, as well as some former Soviet Republics like Kyrgyzstan, hunters like to use the Molot Vepr 6.5 Grendel, a semi-auto AK pattern rifle with a 20" barrel with a scope, to hunt small and medium sized game. I've also seen a short, Krinkov type version of the Bulgarian AK-20, chambered in .50 Beowulf, which is very interesting, and it can also fire in full auto mode. But anyway, I like both AR and AK, and the best for me, is to have one of each type, to hunt and go to the shooting range.

​​@@nospam3409wrong 6.5 g works better in an ak

Bill Alexander said he specifically developed the 6.5 Grendel to make a great white tail cartridge in the AR-15.

It's a snippet of a podcast. 🙄

@@thelittledetailscr7231 Put on a short then. I clicked hoping for more detail.

7mm Is a .284" bullet. 270 uses .277 bullet.

​@@mattipps Try again, do the math, 7mm conversion = .2756 inch. Use a calculator, somebody mucked up somewhere and its not me. For example 38-40 cartridge is a true .400. 44 Magnum / 44-40 is a true .429. 38 Special is a true .357. 9mm Makarov is a true .363 inch or 9.2mm, a10mm is a true .400 not .3937. And of course a .45 can be a .452, .454, .455, .458. Again, deal with it !!!!

@@ronsmith7739 7 mm rem mag uses .284 bullets. A 270 uses .277 bullets. Sry to hurt your feels bro, just telling iT like it is.

@@ronsmith7739 you are confusing bore diameter and bullet diameter

@@mattipps I'm not confusing anything!!!

It has never been reliable enough, the military wouldn't take a serious look at it.

Bull, I think the 6.8 SPC was engineered to provide more energy on targets via larger diameter and heavier weight bullets fired from the same M16 platform variant rifles (M4 carbine specifically) that handle the smaller caliber 5.56 NATO cartridge. Remington modified the old (1906) 30 Remington cartridge case because it easily fit M16 magazines and M16/AR-15 bolt faces with but minor modifications. Basically a new barrel (upper) chambered for the larger diameter 6.8 SPC makes this a switch barrel system. I'm not aware of any efforts to create a better .277" bullet for this cartridge. It is commonly loaded with typical cup-core hollow points, soft points, all-copper hollow points, etc., the same or similar bullets offered in .277" diameter for hunting and target shooting. To my knowledge, the 6.8 SPC has never been officially adopted or standardized for general use by any U.S. military branch. It is or has been used by special forces, but ammo is supplied by domestic, commercial manufacturers, not govt. In short, creating a better bullet than those loaded in the 5.56 NATO was never a part of the 6.8 SPC development. A military armament expert might fine tune or correct my answer if it is substantially wrong, but I don't think it is. Cheers.

@@RonSpomerOutdoors You are right; 6.8 SPC never achieved any official adoption with the US Military, although it was rumored to have been used in some special operations stuff. The whole purpose was to achieve better terminal performance than 5.56 NATO in existing M16/M4 rifle platforms, at the ranges the M16/M4 are used at. ARDEC did the research and determined 6.8mm was the preferred caliber. Remington produced the ammo and chamber specs. The reason for the lack of interest or movement gets blamed on a couple things, one common finger gets pointed at Remington for botching the chamber specs. You can google around for 6.8spc vs 6.8SPC-II chambers but the short story is the original chamber spec submitted to SAAMI does not have enough freebore for heavier bullets and leads to pressure spikes. Rather than correct the spec. and go through the hoops of resubmitting to the military, Remington simply used lighter bullets and reduced pressures. Because there were rifles released with the original 6.8SPC chambers, SAAMI didn't want to change the spec. Rifles marked with 6.8 SPC-II have the freebore correction to allow heavier bullets. Indeed, 6.8 SPC performs really well out of bolt guns that can accommodate longer COAL around 2.300" with heavier bullets in the 130-140gr range. But these rounds are generally handloads and won't fit in an M4's magazine. My feeling is the Army looked at what Remington delivered and saw that the 6.8SPC, even in it's slightly reduced form, was indeed better than 5.56NATO. But they also looked and said it probably wasn't worth the expense of a barrel and bolt swap for the hundreds of thousands of M16 and M4 rifles that were in inventory. 6.8SPC is better than 5.56, but is it that much better to justify a significant expenditure of your budget for the next few years? My guess is the Army said no, its not. They went with the big 6.8x51 instead a decade later. You're probably right that the Army used commercial ammo in their Special operations rifles. I don't think there's a whole lot of point in developing different bullets for 6.8SPC, there's plenty of good stuff already in existence for a variety of uses. Maybe we'll see some cool new whizzbang bullet, but the laws of physics haven't changed in a long time. www.CavityBackBullets.com makes some interesting stuff for the 6.8SPC. Whether or not it's THAT much better to justify the expense, I'm not gonna guess.

@@RonSpomerOutdoorsI think he means cartridge. Only Jordan and the Saudi guard have adopted use of the 6.8 in LWRC SIX8 rifles, Federal loaded the ammo for them the first year then I believe S&B took over.