Your bias is still apparent. A +P for the 9mm vs a standard for the .40. The main reason the FBI went to the 9mm was complaints about the recoil. They also stated the 9mm has couple additional rounds as well. So using a +P round negates the recoil advantage of the 9mm. The 9mm is a great round with an infinite number of variations and platforms to fire it through. All things being equal the .40 is more effective. The most important point is how comfortable you are with your weapon and how well you can put your rounds on target. If you are going to do a comparison do an honest comparison, don't stack the deck to try to prove your point.
Jerry Wexler so, you literally missed the part about shot placement and both are effective given such.... Im going to leave this be since you appear to be a troll.
@@7N6ballistics Just because I do not agree with your testing methods does not make me a troll. I'm pretty sure I liked some of your other videos. I am a big fan of both rounds but would like to see an equal comparison. No caveats.
Jerry Wexler there is no “equal” comparison. There’re only similar comparisons. Both rounds were legit modern tech. Both are effective for LE use. As I stated..both are engineered to do the same thing. Thus, the results when using modern ammo is similar. Shot placement is the greatest factor..something that cannot be engineered or tested..it can only be achieved by the shooter...which will always vary. Given similar shot placement, you can expect similar results. It’s up to the shooter to make that happen.
@@7N6ballistics all true but i feel what he is saying with you using a +p and a stanard 40 altho there are no +p 40cal rounds underwood makes a right hot one. i with the op and thinking you should of used a stanard pressure 40 as 9mm guys always talking about how snappy 40 is then load there guns with +p and +p+ ammo lol. that ammo makes the 9mm snappy as the 40
Big Sean247 HST from previous video was standard pressure. What exactly is it you think would be different? They are service caliber rounds, they are all designed around meeting the same standards. Regardless of +p or +p+ .40 produces more recoil, that’s physics.
You should compared 9mm 147gr vs .40S&W 180gr as both have a sectional density of 0.16. OR 9mm 124gr vs .40S&W 165gr as both have a sectional density of 0.14. Thank You for the video presentation.
I've observed on multiple occasions that Most civilian defenders don't usually carry +p 9mm ammunition for self defense. Ive encountered many more individuals (regardless of income or wealth) who use and swear by 115 grain Remington umc jhp’s(Myself included) in their 9mm handguns. As an advocate of 9mm I will say that I don't use or expect the 9mm to match the effectiveness of the 40caliber. I use the 9mm because it is deadly in it's own regard, just like any other fighting caliber, and because it is usually easier to put shots on target quickly (Generally speaking). When you're a gunslinger caliber doesn't matter so much as accuracy does. My Point is that no matter what the internet warriors who've never had to shoot anyone say, a bullet is made to kill you dead and in most cases it will do just that considering you hit your target in an vital area....BUT....On the other hand people have been mortally wounded(regardless of the caliber they were shot with) and still had enough life and willpower in them to deal out lethal damage to the person/persons opposite of their gun before they lost consciousness. I've survived multiple violent gunfights. In at least 3 of those gunfights I was equipped with my Ar15 rifle. I've personally shot a man squarely in the chest with a defensive 556 loading and watched him fall to the ground, casually get back up, continue firing the AK-47 (Drako with 75 round drum) that he was equipped with and jog to a getaway vehicle and leave the scene of the gunfight. I suppose that it all just boils down to a few, maybe a couple of factors. If it's your day to meet your maker or not is one of those factors (Maybe the most important factor). No matter what you guys do or what caliber you shoot and/or carry; Love God, Cherish Life, be safe, and be smart. Don't act gung-ho and be confrontational just because you are armed. Aviod conflict when possible because No matter how advanced your shooting skills and ammunition are, the truth is that in reality we really have little to no power over what happens to us because even on your best day sometimes things just don't/won't go your way...... Enjoy life you guys because you never know when it could be over for you. Be strong and Be blessed everyone💯
dwanie wheatley pretty much...once the equipment is adequate for the task...the rest is skill and luck or God..or both...depending on your beliefs. .1” bullet diameter is the least of your concerns.
Next time it will be best to use the same ammunition the same barrel size if possible and similar medium grain size for both calibers that would probably be more fair but I love your video I love both calibers they're both awesome but I believe 40 have a vantage bigger caliber same velocity at times so if you take $124 grain going 1200 and if you take $155 grain going 1200 which one's going to hit harder pretty simple
I'm glad I'm not the only one who patches holes in my jugs with tape. I use quality duct tape, and rotate the jugs 90° so I'm not shooting through a side with tape on it.
Thanks took your advice, it would’ve been nice of both ammunition was bonded , bonded are designed to go through barriers Little easier , but I do appreciate your information. Shot placement is the key when you’re moving , stay safe love God and train
Buffalo Bore has a +P marked .40 cartridge...I've got no experience with that only saw it on the website.. I feel you're already dancing with the devil .. no need to kaboom your gun ..
You are a big 9mm fan boy the 40 caliber of course it's going to do the job that's what they made it for I hope the 9 mm also do the job because it's cheaper and that's what they want to do things cheaper and low cost so I hope it works but don't get it wrong it's no comparison between the 40 and the nine 40 dominates the line when you apples to apples not plus peas to standard
You mentioned that gel compared to water was 1.5. I didn’t catch which direction. Is 10 inches of gel equal to 15 inches of water or is 10 inches. Of water equal to 15 inches of gel?
Charles Phillips 15” in the jugs approx 10” in gel...each jug 5” thick. This of course accounts for the plastic as just water will yield approximately 2x. The grey area is in between punching through or just denting. Typically i find 3.5”-3.75” per jug to be really close.
In simple terms, multiple depth of penetration in gallon water jugs in inches by .66 or 2/3 to get approximate penetration in ordinance gel. I have found this approximation spot on in my experiments as well.
Assuming both the modern 9 and 40 have the same penetration... then the trade off, to me, is increased recoil for a larger diameter whole. I think either would work, it just depends then on how well you can handle the recoil.
also depends on the gun. i shoot my friends xdm in 40 better than his wife's glock 19 ergonomics play a huge part in recoil reduction along with other factors.
Good video. Good results. Thanks. I am an unashamed 40 supporter. Older and not always wiser, just stubborn. In real world training I have been unable to distinguish a significance in recoil among all the main duty rounds(9, 40, 45, 357Sig). In duty pistols(poly or metal). However, when just standing and shooting in target practice the 9mm is more noticeably lighter recoilng, especially in the larger metal frame guns. The 9 wins the caliber war on cost of ammo for sure. That is only going to get better in the coming years. Good perspective...shot placement from a reliable gun with a reliably performing bullet placed before bad guy can shoot you wins. I am still a stubborn old 40 cal. Carrier. Thanks.
Great testing man. I think people are missing the point. Speaking in terms of handgun rounds, bullet diameter or bullet speed is not going to kill you neither is energy or the hydrostatic shock. Bullet penetration through the thoracic cavity is key. If you don’t hit the heart or any part of the aorta your fight is going to be significantly longer than you want it to be. But as gun owners we are caveman when it come to caliber and mE nEeD bIg CaLiBeR.
With point of some people not being happy with first video I think they are unhappy cause one reason some people cling to 40cal is they argue the same advances in bullet technology can make 40cal better
I just bought a few boxes .40 on sgammo for 24.99/50 Rd. Got 2 180gr and 2 older brass case 165 gr(deeper hollow point)"black talon type" for about $100
@@7N6ballistics Yeah standard load 40 works, it's sad too many hear about modern 9mm rounds like this 147gr +P but still shoot standard load 115gr thinking it's the same performance.
Good tests, but in US caliber debate is based entirely on a opinion of a consumer society, an not on factual performance. Testing is a science in it self, and test standards are developed specifically for any given studied application with all of the variables established and defined. Consumer society is based on feelings about a purchased product, not its factual performance in a given set of parameters. As a service caliber .40 is a great example of diminishing returns, where "the gain is not worth the pain." .40 has a significantly higher torque curve value then the 9mm, and when fired from lighter polymer frame pistols, it's not just the increased recoil impulse that's the problem of the .40, it's the torque. It becomes clearly evident during rapid fire, when the grip is twisted out thus breaking the proper hold and forcing grip readjustment. I shot .40 and.357 SIG back to back, and while in single shot paper punching there is no issue with sharper recoil increase from 9mm, in rapid fire .357 SIG beats .40 hands down. For me, rapid firing .40 breaks proper grip hold due to high torque, and the only remedy is firing heavier steel frame .40s that are not viable for service/carry and defeat the purpose of such service caliber. While .357 SIG does shoot much better for me and I do not mind the sharp recoil becasue it does not torque and break my grip, .357 SIG is so cost prohibitive that it is not an option on a personal bases, much less on the bases of organizational level logistics. That's why it has to be the 9mm.
Dump both and get a 45!! ;)) Seriously though, good points and I agree. I do believe that the 40 is a better round, but not enough to justify the extra pressure, extra recoil and reduced capacity.
@Jason Vorhees The 40sw has a harder and sharper recoil than the 9mm. That doesn't mean that it is a hard recoiling ammo, it depends on what someone is used to. 9mm and 40sw have similar pressures, but the 40 is launching a much heavier bullet at higher velocities in std form. More momentum and more kinetic energy means more recoil, just plain old physics. No way around that.
@Jason Vorhees here is a laymans video of a comparison I just found. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-AthUSY_nMtQ.html His off the cuff tests shows an increase of 60 percent in recoil lift. That is significant when you consider the low bore axes of the glock. Not only that but when I ran that video in 0.25 speed setting, I was able to measure the difference in push pack by using the elbow as a point of reference. The 40 pushed the shooter back a little over double the distance of the 9mm. Again, very significant. So to say that the 40 isn't harsher than the 9mm in recoil is incorrect. In fact, it is harsh enough that I have seen plenty of women and men switch to the 9mm for that reason. I prefer the 40, since it is a much harder hitting round than both the 9mm and the 45acp, but there is no denying it has more recoil.
@Jason Vorhees Lol, very true. The 9mm has always been a love hate cartridge. Today's ammo technology has improved the cartridge to the point it is very effective today. In my opinion the 40 is a better cartridge by far, and so is the 357 sig(even better). But the 9mm and the 45 have the advantage of availability anywhere at any time. Now that most police departments have moved or are moving away from the 40, the availability will drop, unfortunately. Economically the 9mm makes sense.
