But that'd backfire if he used the invocations perk, cuz all the edgy 13 year olds would instantly equip it. Unless he outsmarts them and doesn't use it.
Weaving Spiders would be less bad if it worked like BNP and permanently reduced the needed charges by 15. Then it might actually be useful at the 3 gen point.
Nobody seems to want to say it, but survivors haven’t gotten an actually just good perk in several chapters at this point. They’d rather just sell people sexy skins for feng, Dwight, David, and Meg.
@@nathangothan601 I’m fine with mid and niche perks, but this garbage is what bothers me. It’s so impractical that it actively hurts while making bad survivors even worse. The healing one is at least ok, even though I know I’m gonna see people walking across the entire map just to get to basement and use it with no other healing perks. Actual soloq nerf.
@@leiah6514 even the Alan wake perks were trash. Champion of light is the only one worth using. Then ripleys perks were also useless, except for the silent footsteps. And then who was before that? Gabriel? He had one good perk MFT which was nerfed relatively quickly, meanwhile every killer is running grim and bringing games to a grinding halt.
My friend calls you "the guy that hates everything" but I think you're the first person I've heard giving the killer perks much props! More interested to try them out now.
meh the perks aren't bad, they just aren't good. The only one with any potential is the third but it requires a skillcheck build like scott already mentioned. The days of plug n play god tier perks are pretty much over - the only one in the last like 5 killers is ultimate weapon lol
@@Thisisnotasignthat's a good thing, though. I don't want perks to be instant winners, I prefer perks with nuance that people can go find interesting combinations.
to be fair I think Scott got paid to say they are okay because the killer perks are shit. He literally says the first perk is good if you hit a survivor then they run in a straight line or get hit then vault a window and you vault after them. Doesn't mention anything about them actually looping like every survivor will do. It's a dogshit perk with too many hoops to jump through for a mediocre effect. The 2nd one ofc it's good/mid tier because we already have two versions of this perk already. He even says it's Dark Devotion but for gens. The third perk he says is conditionally OKAY, notice how I capitalized the word okay? He said the perk is just OKAY, not great, not insane, not op, just OKAY if you BUILD AROUND IT. If you have to make a build specifically for one perk to be "okay" then it's not a good perk.
@@atrozzorta9602 Every perk has a use case. For instance, Territorial Imperative is pretty widely considered to be a universally bad perk, but it's about to pop off when these invocations start to build up. Scott specifically says the window perk is good if you hit them while they're vaulting, which it is and I can see some fun combinations with things like Awakened Awareness. The skill check perk is actually pretty good, just not by itself and there are lots of perks like that. Power Struggle is a great example, mostly useless but when combined with Flip Flop it's suddenly really good, and you can even take that further. Also, to assume he's getting paid by BHVR to say a perk is good is crazy. That's not the kind of thing that would be worth paying for, especially for someone who's not even a fog whisperer and gives them pretty harsh criticism.
The incantation seems almost never worth it. Math wise, it's just slower. 120 seconds to grant a total of 105 seconds of generator charge, across 7 generators. Assuming the ideal situation where all 7 generators benefit from the extra progress, you would have been better off just doing gens normally. God forbid someone without the perk "help" you, so that you spend 180 survivor seconds (90 each) instead, or that a generator gets completed in those 2 minutes, or the worst case scenario of being interrupted late into it. And on top of the massive time sink for gen inefficiency, you get rewarded with perma broken status. I love the cult like concept, it sounds like such a cool perk, just math wise, even under ideal conditions it doesn't make sense to ever use it. Edit: Maybe it has value as a niche comp counter-pick against corrupt intervention for the coordinated teams that decide to hide and wait it out before touching gens.
Invocations are cool though. I think we talked about it on stream, an Invocation that respawns any broken pallets would be cool and maybe make the one who started it get like a 3% Hinder for the rest of the match or something. There's a lot of possibilities with this system.
Because someone was worried the basement would go away ? The structure that is featured in multiple of their trailers and has been in the game since alpha ? Man I'm scared they'll eventually get rid of pallets and gens one day...
Of course they wouldn't. It's as central to the game as the gens and hooks. Basement never had a chance of going anywhere. But now I really want the Killer perk idea I had once of being able to spawn both basements and teleport between them.
What if the generator progress invocation spread 105 charges across all non-repaired generators? That way it would still be 15 per generator if done at match start but in by the time it’s down the last three gens each one would be getting 35 charges instead of just 15.
The Invocation by itself isn't good. By itself, maybe it could add the effect of reducing or halting generator regression. But it could synergize *heavy* with other invocations down the road, depending on how future invocation perks work. A second invocation perk could double the effectiveness with no additional work to trigger the effects. If another survivor has a second invocation perk and joins your invocation, does their invocation also take effect upon completion? Does this mean that all survivors can start with an invocation perk, and go around the map doing stuff while one survivor begins the invocation in the basement, then everyone meets back up at the basement to activate all the buffs? What if they join the invocation for a few seconds, then leave? Or does only the initial invoker apply their buffs? If that's the case, are other survivors effectively locked out of using their invocations if they don't reach the basement first? This will either turn into a huge SWF buff or a solo queue nerf.
Unrelated to the actual video, can someone tell me how to record my voice and webcam while other gameplay is playing in the background? Like gameplay I've previously recorded. I'd appreciate any help!
I've always had an idea for some sort of iron box chest to spawn in basement that refills rare items every few minutes to lure players into a risky spot, these perks are close to that and I hope they add more like them
Big fan Scott! Is it possible that The Unknown will have ambush potential using a perk such as insidious? By placing a clone near an objective or the basement and then standing still next to it, they will look identical and have no terror radius. And I figure the only way a survivor would be able to discern between the two would be by getting in melee range to activate the clone dispelling sequence?.
Unbound seems fairly good especially on killers who already vault like wesker, legion or chucky. Isn't unforeseen just a slightly different trail of torment with just less cooldown and transferring your terror radius to the gen for 30 seconds instead of giving you undetectable until the gen stops regressing. Then undone seems like its gonna be alright on like doctor with huntress lullaby but is heavily reliant on the survivors to be bad at hitting skill checks and its not the best to actually build up as to get 30 charges as thats still 10 missed skill checks which even being doctor with lullaby you aren't guaranteed to get 30 charges even once, especially at high ranks, but the actual effect of it reducing gen progress by up to 30% and blocking a gen for up to 30 seconds on command could be very good at blocking and reducing the progress of a generator thats almost done and is gonna be really good for 3 gen builds, on specifically doctor if people miss skill checks, otherwise its probably not that good. Then for the Survivors the invocation: weaving spiders seems interesting but yea not that worth it unless your already running no mither cause then its just a time investment with no negatives beyond what no mither already gives you. The other 2 perks are kind of whatever faster self care but only in the basement with a little bit of aura reading which is alright depending on where the basement is and the last survivor perk is just less mangled duration after spending time in the basement with a bit of healing speed if cursed not that useful.
Yeah I ran undone with coulrophobia and grim embrace and territorial imperative for the spider weaving perk and its quite strong. Having the ability to block all gens for 40s and then one gen for another 30s after is interesting. The amount you can snowball in a minute is quite alot.
Aside from the numbers buffs suggested, one way incould see the new invocation buffed is to grant a bnp effect to all gens. Maybe not 15 charges, but its a possibility
Scott, you missed a weird tech that you could do with the invocation generator perk! SWF could have it in their back pocket for a 3 gen style scenario. You have your team pressure the 3 gen as much as possible, and then you can send a guy to basement and then time your invocation to land to either finish the gen or set the gen up to be finished for the next person that gets a window to touch it.
I feel like the invocation can be good late game if you're dealing with a 3-gen situation. Helps spread pressure between the 3 gens and can confuse the killer.
Hey Scott, do you think maybe changing the Weaving Spiders perk to instead of giving 15 charges in progress to removing 15 Charges from the max gen completion? That way a single Ruin or Surge or something doesn't waste your time and perk. Probably too strong but they could also lower the Charge count in that case
I love the invocation idea, it's a fucking fantastic concept as you said... but that effect is completely terrible for the time sink. 1 base gen kick with 5 seconds of regression almost completely negates it, and at the start of the match it doesn't matter if you're protecting a cluster of generators anyway. Most survivors won't play tug of war with those gens at the start and opt to finish the ones outside of the cluster that don't matter. Then getting hooks and more regression completely turns it into a net waste of time. They need to make the perk better or it's just a soloQ bait perk like using self-care with a Legion with mangled addons.
A small counterpoint: Honestly with what we saw with that pro level team going against the duder playing Chess Merchant - the incantation could actually be really viable in a unique situation where you have to break that hold without actually being on the gen itself. Would effectively mean that all four survivors are working on three gens separately, which the killer -cannot- put pressure on even in a 3-gen situation. Mixed with the 8-kick limit... Yeah I think the perk actually will have a lot of (niche) value.
If Undone works with missing the Overcharge skill check or Merciless Storm then that would be a awesome build. Stack it with Unnerving Presence for extra power.
they are; i'm just saying since not a lot of people even run caulro, it's still a very good perk to make even experienced players miss skill checks.@@oscar3153
I think weaving spiders would be a more interesting perk if the affect divided 105 charges between the remaining gens- to have a perk that can be used earlier for a spread out jumpstart or later for a more powerful 3 gen solution. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
For invocation: weaving I believe the charges given should be like bnps. 1. Invocation is a great new idea and there should be more than 1 of it. And like boons it should be high risk high reward. 2. As it stands rn all the killer has to do is run ruin and all that progress goes away within 15 seconds. So it's nothing but a waste of time for you and your team. So like i said, make it so the charges can't be taken away (since 15 isn't too much anyway) and then it's worth the perk slot. I said this on my stream but im not as popular as you so maybe you can get this out there and MAYBE the devs will hear my cry lol
Yeah. There's way too much time investment for something so easily negated. They should change it to remove charges required (like a BNP does) instead. Would need to reduce the effect or something, though, because making all the gens permanently 75 seconds is way too strong. Maybe make it 8 charges removed. Just slightly weaker per gen than a BNP.
I really do like the idea behind Invocations but Weaving Spiders is a little underwhelming. I think if it gave twenty charges it'd be fine. One thought that got brought up when Otz was going over things was popping all seven generators at once with the Perk and I'd like to see a group of friends do that while in a public match with a Killer that's not playing along. Playing fair but not just "letting" them do it. They get all seven generators to around seventy-eight charges then finish Weaving Spiders to finish them all at once. Be a pretty "fun" self imposed challenge. Thanks for the video Scott.
I think the broken status should last as long as it took to cast the invocation. So you have less broken time if you get help, but any survivor that participated also is broken for the duration.
Unbound reminds me of the Xenomorphs Rapid Brutality. I guess one of the next killer perks will be Unbound with pallets and the one after that Unbound with gens? Those perks are getting less and less inspired by the minute. Killer seems really fun though.
I mean. Wicked synergizes incredibly well with the other perks. If you're going to be spending time in the basement casting the Invocation, you'll get ALL your stacks of Wicked, and it wasn't just spent AFKing. That's not to say it's a particularly useful perk, but if you pair it with the other basement perks, you'll easily passively get the charges on it while doing something else productive.
@@dankmemes7796 true, but someone else can be casting the Invocation, and you're just helping, and getting tokens. If you go to the basement to heal with the second perk, and passively getting tokens.
killer getting decent perks and no OP survivor perk that gets nerfed later to bait purchases? Now if theres no horribly unbalanced survivor sided map it could be a great chapter.
This chapter is already a masterpiece, great perks, great killer and survivor, beautiful map, scary and horror chase music and menu music. I'm already reading that they are going to main them, me included
I feel like the Invocation perk is such a unique and interesting concept but they played it safe since it affects gens across the map. It could definitely be buffed a tiny bit since the downside of being broken for the rest of the match is huge, its also only usable once, regardless if 4 survivors bring the perk. I actually feel like the perk is best in 3-gen scenarios which is ironic because we got the huge nerf to 3-gens recently. To me, it's kind of confusing what sort of niche this is supposed to fill. I think it'd be better if instead of giving all gens 15 charges, it split 105 charges across the remaining gens. With 7 gens remaining, it'd split 105 charges equally across all 7 (15 each). With 3 gens remaining, it'd split 105 charges across 3 gens (35 each), that way you don't "lose value" from the perk for holding onto it. Alternatively, you could apply the BNP effect to all affected gens, giving them a permanent 15 charges (without scaling for each gen). Either of those 2 effects would make being broken for the remainder of the trial much more worth it, since you're either playing with No Mither at the start of the trial, or you have 3 perks until the end of the trial.
I think all 3 killer perks are OK on their own but definitely all have good synergy with some specific builds and play styles. If you like skill check builds, these parks are for you.
If weaving spiders did something more interesting like reducing the amount of charges that a gen needs by 15 so the killer couldn't just kick it away I think that would be better
15% charges on a lot of gens is not that good thou. You can have your aura spotted in basement, killer can go down there and get you. its one of the most memes perk ever made by bhvr. they made a bunch of weak perks which works in the most dangerous place for survivor: basement.
I'm surprised you didn't compare ''strength in shadows'' (SIS) to COH in its design. Survivors get a perk which grants them infinite self-healing at strong speeds. Whilst you need to manually place COH by blessing a totem in a designated area, SIS is just a pre-placed boon in the basement, which is usually shack anyway. You call the perk map dependant since the basement spawn is random and can be far off somewhere, but the best use of COH is to put it in some corner of the map (or upstairs somewhere, but that's on a handful of maps) away from active generators so the killer never goes to the area. Yet with SIS, you don't even need to search for totems and bless one, or risk having it deactivated by the killer - it's permanently active at all times. So yes, you might spend a little longer than COH on some maps to travel to the basement, but the time investment evens out IMO. Basement itself is generally a safe spot unless the killer is near, but the same applies to COH - since the killer could hear the boon and search the area.
i know this is sort of off topic but anyways, wouldn't vigil be better than running the perk "wicked" because you recover from not only mangled but all status effects 30% faster without needing to do anything
Hex Ruin just completely counters weaving spiders at the start of the match, this perk is 100% meant to be used mid to late game as a safe way to complete gen progress.
Alright I want to point out two things. First the skill check perk works on healing checks too so that means unnerving, coulrophibia combo will farm them checks fast. Two the basement healing perk isn't safe.. BBQ n Chilli is one of the most used killer perks. If the killer sees you healing in basement... well I don't need to say more.
It's amazing that they make a perk that requires you to sit in basement for over a minute, then make a perk that needs you to be in basement for over a minute to get max stacks, only to then have the first one make you unable to benefit from the other. "Aha, now I can't heal back up from being injured significantly faster." The incantation must have not had the broken effect earlier on in the design, and they just didn't get to changing the third perk, because that is some impressive anti synergy.
The downside of taking 2 minutes in the basement is already enough to balance Weaving Spiders imo. The permanent broken after seems too far. A lot of progress on 1 or 2 gens is always worth more than a little progress on many gens in most situations anyways; the value comes from killers not expecting (competent) survivors to waste time in basement so they might never know that it's being used.
Absolutely love Sable. Fantastic design and very interesting perks, themed, just Nic's. And I agree that the spell thing isn't really worth it in it's current state. Takes too long, 15 charges is next to nothing with new regression. Plus Perma Broken is a huge trade-off on its own.
Got to love again how killer perks are good to really good and the survivor perks are bad to really bad, but hey that's the way this game has been trending for the last couple of months. I guess BHVR really needs killers in this game, why else has this consistently happened in the last few updates. Anyone see an Alan Wake perk on survivor other than maybe Champion of light?
I refuse to play survivor for weeks after this releases. The amount of PC's I'd break from people AFKing in basement to permanently injure themselves would bankrupt me
I think it should add a caveat or something to the invocation (although its already a wall of text) like every generator that would reach atleast 90/95 % will instead be completeld, or make it a 100 seconds and decrease the help percentage from teammates a little. or maybe make the survivor undetectable while in the basement, just something extra for the actual huge time investment you're most likely going to do solo in a couple of weeks
Yeah, an aura block when in basement would be great. Can't count how many times bbq just ruined survivors entire games when there's a billy that knows your exact location in basement LOL
I think if Undone had only 10 tokens and each token was worth 3% it would be a lot better without being too op. This would make it useful even in higher mmr matches without requiring Doctor or a dedicated build. People dont miss skill checks that often, and you almost certainly arent building up 30 tokens in a single game without playing against beginners or people farming. Not to mention you lose all he tokens anytime you kick a gen so it doesnt let you really "build up" a full stack unless you totally avoid kicking gens
Idk with weaving spiders you spend 120 seconds to get 105 seconds' worth of repair time, right? I know it doesn't exactly work that way since while repairing you can get chased away, but... It just seems really bad at present
Strength in Shadows is a solid option, honestly. The number of times I've been last one left, injured, and failed to plunder a medkit from the basement so I can have a better shot at the gate is way too many. SiS means I can skip the chest and just heal, then try and escape. I'll be running it a lot.
@@izzywn5802 Medkits get a single use, may already be gone by end game, and take 24 seconds. SiS is infinite use and with BK only takes 18 seconds. Even without BK it's only 26.5 seconds, barely more than a medkit. Plot Twist only works twice.
@@xyex I rarely need more than 2 solo heals in a match. Any other time I have a survivor nearby. Also I said a good medkit, that's more than one heal. Also botany knowledge is a waste of a perk slot, when you could use just one perk slot (or none with a good medkit).
@@izzywn5802 Botany is never a waste of a perk slot unless you're a useless teammate who never heals anyone. And ALL medkits are 1 heal. To get two heals requires 2 add-ons, one of which is Iri. Speed add-ons >>>>> charge add-ons. SiS, BK, Streetwise, BtL with a double charge Commodius is infinitely superior to any medkit.
Someone said Invocation: Resurrection would be dope and I agree. Maybe you could bring a survivor back to life but they are permanently broken and can only have on hook state!
VHS and Evolve were great examples of why having a resurrect in an asym is a fucking awful idea, there's no way it wouldn't be way too overtuned. Granted, those games failed for a myriad of other reasons, but those respective mechanics certainly didn't help.
Being able to eliminate a survivor from the game is a core strategy of killer, at mid-high mmr you can usually predict the outcome of a match depending on whether the first survivor has been eliminated by the time the third gen has popped (at least in my experience). By giving survivors a way to effectively undo one of the most fundamental methods of killers gaining advantage, you end up potentially screwing the entire balance of the game. That perk would be the absolute epitome of meta-defining.
Surely weaving spiders is just going to be insanely stronger for SWF? A team who immediately go to basement together and quickly complete the invocation are going to get so much value while the killer is busy looking for people & finding nobody, while a single solo queue survivor sitting down there for 2 minutes could just throw the game
@@Leftistmushroom Which is why they shouldn’t have done it lol. They’re promoting people being absolute useless. Nice seeing new ideas but BHVR is canonically horribly at implementing them. Look Hex, Boon and Scurge Hooks perks. They’re all either absolute dog shit or straight busted.
I'm pretty sure perks that make gens explode while survivors are working on them counts as missed skillcheck so pain res will forcefully give you stacks. I haven't played ptb yet though so maybe it doesn't work that way.
No, those definitely don't count, or Technician would block them. Oppression and Overcharge might count, though. Maybe Merciless Storm? Also, Blight's add-on that triggers skill checks (does he still have that after the rework?) would definitely work.
"Unforeseen" Needs a complete rework. Not because the perk is too strong, but because its basically just trail of torment 2.0. They have almost the same effect, although you could argue that Unforeseen is a bit more useful because the terror radius stays on the generator and potentially scares people away from it. But I would basically never run trail of torment anymore when this new perk is out, it would be cool if it did something different.
Healing buff and debuff percentage in dbd is multiplicative, not additive. Botany knowledge would increase healing speed of strength in shadows by 30% percent, because it's 50% of 60%, giving 90% healing speed. Still quick, though.
Using the invocation at the end is an idea. In a way it could sorta be a 4th gen. Kinda. A little. 15% isnt a ton and would require a coordinated team. And the devs worked "hard" to kill 3 gening forever anyway so. Ya it aint really worth it but its a cute idea I guess.
Scott I think your math might be off when valuing the incantation perk. Even at 7 gens, you’re only gaining 105 charges for your 120 seconds. Even if you somehow needed 15 seconds to run from gen to gen at best, you’re breaking even, as a survivor does gens at 1 charge a second. Even if you have 2 people with the perk, you’re still spending 120 seconds total, 60 per survivor, for 105 charges. Only at THREE people with the incantation, do you start to see value, with 90 total seconds spent, 30 per survivor, to get 105 charges. Even then, that’s only 15 seconds of time gained, in return for 3 survivors having 3 perks for the rest of the game, and one survivor being permanently broken.
The value is you are sort of out of the game for that time. Its pretty unlikely the killer will just randomly go in the basement, at least once the wave of new perk interest goes away. You also can do gens that are in bad places, etc. That being said I mean yeah I agree its barely worth running at all. The survivor perks are not good.
@@ScottJund It's telling that the devs are frightened of accidentally adding a really strong gen perk that they make it under efficient compared to just old fashioned sitting on a gen AND it gives you no mither (without its benefits) AND it can be interrupted at any time during the process before it takes effect. At the same time they are being so careful with this, they make PTB Huntress able to loop while holding the hatchet, and PTB Blight with infinite rushes, that's really odd and pretty funny.
Btw you mention being out of the game while in the basement, same can be said if you're just doing your gen at some part of the map away from the action. In that case you're just replacing doing a gen away from the action to "doing a gen" in the basement but it takes longer and if you ARE interrupted all the time invested goes to waste. And you get stuck with perma broken cause why not. More I think about it, it's kinda like the devs just added a perk to open a hypothetical 8th gen in the basement but it's so inefficient and punishing to do that it's practically never worth it as it is currently.
1. I see where devs were going with the theme and new mechanics - and I love it! 2. WHY IN THE FUCK would you put 3 perks that effectively nullify each other on the same character?! Especially than mangled is so shit now and you definitely not need a perk against this! Wicked heal should be increased a tiny bit and it should work on all the statuses, like gremlin's perk. 3. It feels like christmaxx. I've been using teritorial on and off for years now for easy first down from time to time and now that Billy is back this is going to be a good time.
they never specified you had to heal yourself with strength in shadows so what if botany, we'll make it, strength in shadows, and desperate measures for the dbd youtube "insta heal" basement rescue build? ya know almost completely unnecessary for a safe basement unhook, but a good build for a video
I'm going to be running Strength in Shadows in my medic build for sure. Used to be Botany, We'll Make It, Desperate Measures, Leader. I'll swap out Leader for it. SiS+BK+DM is going to be some pretty good solo heals. Even with DM not active, BK will still bump it up to 90% heal speed, which is fantastic for self healing.
