Grab some G54 merch here - www.en.garage54.ru/ Promo code 'garage54' In this episode we test some rather unconventional brake pad material. For business inquiries: promotion@garage54.ru
You should also try brass pads. That’s what we use on our ATVs because they’re really durable and rocks and mud don’t eat them up like conventional pads do.
The issue it that's cars are alot heavier, so the brakes would probably over heat, fade, and with the being repeated alot the pads would wear down very fast.
I suggest redoing the test after either replacing or milling the surfaces of those copper pads then re-turning the rotors to clean them properly, since the copper pads appear to be contaminated by residue aluminium from the aluminium test and gave you poor results
they are not doing real tests they spend a lot of time to make these videos 'proper' tests would include monitors hooked up to measure temperatures and wear and braking distances your idea would add nothing to the way they do their tests
Copper work hardens when force is applied and softens when its heated. In this case both were happening repeatedly, so a graph of the results would have been interesting.
am i remembering correctly thay copper gets a h igher coefficent of friction the hotter it gets to a certain point? cinter clutches and racing brakes have copper and stuff like that in em if i remeber correctly, and they all need abuse to work correctly.
I think the copper pads were getting contaminated with aluminium remnants from the discs, would have been a better idea to have separate sets of discs to test so one didn't harm the other...
@@ashenthrenchetty7 they said they will machine the rotors. Clean them. Then put the pads. But all they did in the next shot was clean the rotors. Definitely contamination between the two
I'm not sure if the low copper or zero copper brake pads are really a problem. I used Akebono zero copper brake pads on my mom's 2011 Honda CRV. They even outlasted OEM Honda brake pads, which may have had copper.
Once you brake hard enough to lock up the wheels, your brake pads no longer have any influence on stopping distance and threshold braking (not locking up) gives you better distance than locking wheels while also sparing the very high tire wear.
Threshold braking give shorter stopping distance on tarmac and regular roads. On gravel locking the wheels actually is likely to result in shorter stopping distance. This is because the gravel builds up in front of the locked wheel increasing the friction over what is possible for a rolling wheel. Snow can act the same way while on tarmac, concrete or any other hard surface locked wheels means a longer stopping distance. But locking the wheels always means you are giving up any pretense to control the direction the car travels in. So ABS or threshold braking if you don't have ABS is almost always preferable even if the stopping distance can get slightly longer on gravel. Oh and threshold braking is never as good as ABS. Never! Neither in allowing you to retain control or in getting the shortest possible stopping distance. Well retaining control isn't entirely true. Locking the breaks can allow you to perform maneuvers you can't otherwise do. But it takes skills most people don't have and in a panic situation I'd much rather have a vehicle that steer better.
@@blahorgaslisk7763 according to the folks at team o'neil, it still works well on gravel (I'll drop the link at the bottom) likewise, threshold braking can outperform ABS, but it's more a question of how good your abs is (without even considering loose surfaces) here's the video btw: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-TfekZcWa6D8.html
@@tiagobelo4965 I counter with Engineering Explained and a video about why it's impossible for a human to outbreak a proper ABS system... ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-G-GEUkiMuLk.html It's not the first time I've come across the idea that threshold braking can be more efficient, but every time it's been either someone's personal opinion or proven wrong through testing. Eng.Exp however has a very good explanation of the mechanics of why we as humans can't compete. But just incase... I'm now off to see if Team O'Neil can convince me of anything else and I'll have to come back and eat crow. May the best sources win!
@@tiagobelo4965 Good video, but not enough to convince me I should disable ABS and use threshold braking instead. It's my personal opinion that is you regularly rely on ABS when braking in your daily driving you are living on borrowed time. In any situation other than competition the ABS should never need to engage unless something catastrophic is happening. Whenever you feel ABS working you were either driving to fast or are braking to hard. Like stated in the video from Team O'Neil you have to plan ahead when driving. If you have to rely on ABS to slow down enough to take a curve you are just a few ounces of lose gravel on the road from having a very bad day. ABS is for the situations you can't predict such as a child running out from behind a parked car, a deer taking a leap up onto the road only to freeze in your headlights. It's for the kind of situations when your brain goes into panic mode, not for helping you drive faster and brake later. And when things like that happens the brains reaction time is still not good enough, so you really don't have time to find that perfect brake pressure that won't lock up your wheels.
I use a copper type sintered brake pad in my dirt bike, they brake well in the wet and mud but they wear the rotors faster than the carbon/kevlar type.
This really is the most fascinating car channel on RU-vid imo, they do the cool stuff other people just can’t do, because their skill level in fabrication is extraordinary
@@raven4k998 😆 you can order customized copper plates and other pieces and metals online, I ordered a copper plate once a few years back but I can’t recall where. But yeah, copper isn’t cheap, even for a small 1/8 inch thick plate 2x2 inches it was $6 in 2017, online metals, I looked it up 😆
You guys have noticed the shiny metallic flecks in brake pad material? Copper is one of the metals used in the brake material. The light coloured flecks, could be aluminium, or magnesium. I'm not sure about modern pads and shoes, but in times gone and past, brake linings were formulated for specific applications, and in particular, according to whether the brakes were servo assisted, non assisted.
Copper has been almost fully eliminated at least in North America, it was causing reproductive issues in salmon. I believe they are limited to 5% copper max, some brands have moved to a fully copper free formula.
Id like to see the study on that, copper is still in every Horse/Cattle Salt rock, Every vitamin/mineral complex for humans and is an addative for turkeys to relax the arteries, preventing a heart attack from rapid growth.
@@DarkLinkAD I understand, and all i have access to is the internet, so i suggest that you google "copper being removed from brake pads". and while copper is necessary for humans, it is well known as an effective agent used to prevent sea creatures from attacking boats.
@@bgbthabun627 I learned that information before the internet was a publicly available thing, farm work. If you have a study to reference from a reputable source such as PUBMED, ill read it. Im not much for google propaganda though
Don't forget the aluminum and copper both feel hot BECAUSE they cool off quickly-your hands feel the increased heat that they give off! Brakes just get that hot, even fast conductivity doesn't make it any more bearable to touch after removal.
Yes aluminum binds with steel pretty well even when cold, but against the iron rotor it wouldn't take much to get hot enough to melt and bind with the cast iron. brake pads are designed to not grip much so as to last longer and not cause an inconvenience like a crash 😂
I like this. BBC Top Gear encountered aluminum brake rotors in the "Communist cars" episode. They said aluminum has the braking properties of cheese. Stay weird, Garage 54. Never stop being weird.
BBC Top Gear is as reliable as a honest politician on campaign... They were forcd to admit they "staged" (american english is faked) the Reliant Robin rollovers, and the Tesla failures... If they knew Jack sh*t of cars, this episode wouldn't have existed, as Russia was part of the producers of commie cars.
Aluminum pads have a major problem. The freshly exposed surfaces instantly oxidize to form a thin layer alumium oxide aka corundum. This can wear out the disks prematurely.
USING MY EXPERIENCE ON USA RAILROADS , I WORKED IN THE TIMES THAT WE CONVERTED MOST ROLLING STOCK FROM CAST IRON BRAKE SHOES ON WHEEL RIMS TO COMPOSITION BRAKE SHOES! IT WAS FOUND TO BE NECESSARY TO REDUCE THE PRESSURE. THIS WAS DONE BY CHANGING BRAKE LEVER RATIO , OR BY USING SMALLER SIZE BRAKE CYLINDER SIZES! OVERALL IT DECREASED THE WEAR ON WHEELS! THE ONLY LOCOMOTIVES THAT NEVER WERE CONVERTED TO COMPOSITION SHOES ARE THE STEAM LOCOMOTIVES, BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT ALIKE ON DIFFERENT TYPES, AND TO MY KNOWLEDGE NO ONE MANUFACTURES THEM! HOWEVER SPECIALIZED METAL FOUNDRIES STILL CAST THEM ! KEEP THEM ROLLING BROTHERS!! 👍👍
Copper transfers heat better than Aluminum. That is why it is used in high end cookware. You can buy 'semi-metallic' brake pads, but you can't buy 'solid metallic' brakes pads for obvious reasons (don't work very well).
Aluminum with lubricant. It wouldn't be ideal in the real world because you would constantly have to relube and clean dirt. But I am just curious from a performance standpoint. I would THINK the lube/oil would help with cooling, the initial over bite, and the fusing. Would have to see how it affects stopping power though. In my mind with how aggressive they bite, even with the lube, just apply more pressure and they will still go to full lockup
Carbon fiber pads would do a wonderful job of grinding down your rotors, carbon fiber is usually very abrasive. As for the rotors themselves, I think a normal carbon fiber composite would suffer failure of the resin due to heat. However carbon fibers are often used as a component of ceramic rotors used in the brakes of high performance cars and aircraft.
You'd be almost just wearing the rotor instead of almost only wearing the pads as they're supposed to. Could be interesting, if you could cast/machine tungsten carbide into the correct shape. Easier said than done given it's high melting point and hardness.
Be expensive , if you could get some sintered somewhere . I'd like to see clean rotors against brass , steel , and titanium ( Russia has alot more than we do in the states.).
The copper and aluminium does not cool fast. That is a Misconception. They both conducht heat very well, and that is why they are used as a cooler (Heatsink). By using finned copper and aluminium blocks with a fan, they can really get things cool, so thats why they "cool things fast". Theyselves will stay allmost hot the same time as an identically formed block of Iron or Steel.
Although aluminum is soft, aluminum oxide is right next to diamond on the hardness scale. Aluminum oxide forms in nano-seconds. Machining aluminum dulls your cutting tools pretty quick because of the oxide. Aluminum makes a horrible bearing surface.
So what do the major brake pad suppliers use on their full metallic pads? I'm sure it is metal but of a powdered construction. I don't know but I would like to see if you could buy your own lining and reline your own pads. In the old days here in the states you could get linings for brake shoes. Sure there would be issues with some jackleg not doing it right but...
Copper makes more sense than aluminum just because it's a little harder and I think has a higher melting point. Could only imagine modern abs system with these pads. Before I watched all the way through I was thinking the copper would be a better emergency back up. The way aluminum shears too is much more severe than copper.
That's why pads are dynamic, with the appropriate initial bite. In this way minimising the braking distance, and avoiding the locking. Anyway, ABS is your friend.
