Are they really sorry? 

Sadly, for people who have internalised the idea that they are indeed a bad person it's really really difficult not to apologise for *being* bad vs doing bad. It's like a shortcut in the brain, you've already accepted the blame and are punishing yourself. Taking accountability is a super important skill but some people need help to build that up, too

Except some people have so much self hatred and maybe even suicidal thoughts internalised that they genuinely think those things when they fuck up, every time they fuck up they feel that they should die, and that they are a monster

This was the only way my narcisistic mother "apologized" and it was absolutely intentionally manipulative. 😩 Took me 37 years to see it.

My mom always did that, "I'm just a terrible, bad mother! I can't do aaaanything right!", like she was begging for validation that "oh no, no. You're a great mother."

In many contexts, I don't want an apology even half as much as I want a plan to prevent the situation from arising again. A genuine apology can be nice, demonstrating understanding of why a behavior was upsetting is great, but ultimately I don't care if you understand why a behavior is hurtful if you don't have a plan to keep it from happening again.

Yeah my narcissistic ex constantly “apologized” like this. And you’re absolutely right, my empathic ass would reassure, ugh, it’s so gross to look back on…

This makes me realize just how often I’ve done this in past without realizing it

Literally my father. His three children grew up with issues and are trying to get through by therapy. At some point we confronted him and his response was "Welp, no child comes with an instruction manual and I did what I thought it was best. If you grew up like that, it isn't my fault."

The worst: "I am sorry you feel that way." (Better: "i was so mean and I see that you feel hurt.")

That reminds me of Bojack Horseman. He always says "sorry", then he rambles on with a bunch of excuses and self-pity

I'm in a dark spot now and for the time being "Sorry I am not okay and pathetic" is the reality of it. It's not a permanent state or hopefully it's not at least.

When people apologize like that, the response I find the most appropriate to remind them ONLY once or twice they aren’t terrible, and then _refocus_ the attention to their actions while emphasizing that they need to apologize for what they did even if they didn’t mean it or even if they aren’t a bad person.

your channel is very important to society as a whole ❤

Classic lines by my horribly abusive mother when I tried to stand up for myself: “I guess I’m just the worst mother in the world.” “I guess I will never do anything right in your eyes.” “I understand if you never want to talk to me again. I hope you have a nice life.” (though crocodile tears and theatrical sobs) And then my all time favorite: “You know, everyone in the family hates you. We all talk about it when you’re not here. Even your dad doesn’t like you, but he’d never admit it to your face.”

Manipulative assholes aside, i think a root of this problem is the widespread subconscious perception that complaints, arguments or conflicts have "blame" at stake, and end with a "winner" and a "loser", the latter having to shoulder the blame at stake, and participants will do all they can to not be the loser.

This actually called out to me and I can admit I do this myself - not in the means of wanting pity but in the sense that I know I've done something wrong. Didn't expect to hear this but I'm saving this one so I can work on this o.o

My mom always told us to tell her what was wrong without relationship, but if we tried to bring it up, she did this.

"Self pity apologies" excellent phrasing! Just this. Can't even believe how many times I rushed in to reassure the the poor diddums, like that would change anything about how hurtful they had been. Funny, one might, at the time, feel like the hero who resolved the issue, though the issue remains unresolved.

I'm not good with apologies, but I usually sincerely try to say sorry even if it's awkward. And every now and then I can say that I'm a terrible person, but not out of manipulation, I just... Feel that I am an awful person. I'm struggling a lot with depression and anxiety, and my self-image is on the bottom of the ocean. So yeah, in general words like these from most people can be manipulation, and sometimes... There are people like me. You just need to know a person enough to understand what's true and what's not.

If they do not speak about what they want to change and want to do, to avoid the problem - they just want to avoid consequences by saying what they think, what you want to hear.

I got one recently like this : someone "apologised" by saying they're bad at accepting their own incapacity, eliciting compassion from me for a bit, until I realised that they didn't once acknowledge what they did to me. This "apology" was about them and making excuses for their actions, not about how they hurt me. So now they're out of my life.

Damn dude that awaken a LOT of childhood trauma damn 24yo still hurts does it even end like I'm tired

Just wait for the ol’, “I’m sorry you feel that way…”

In another video I commented I sounded just just like this. And I’m not sorry. I’m dealing with someone with anger management issues, emotional disregulation, volunteering to do things and getting mad about it. As a manager, if I can’t say that I wasn’t happy with your work, that is within my wheelhouse and purview. If an employee calls a press conference about how they don’t like my tone, grow up. If I express on the internet all of the things I’m repressing as I try to manage this person, please acknowledge that I least I had restraint with the person in question. Even though I think they are a giant child. Because if I actually did my job, I’d be petitioning to have them fired. But we’re a bunch of softies here I will try to be as compassionate as possible and see how I can be better and if you’re having a bad day, I’ll try to find out why and resolve it, and I’m big enough to acknowledge that the problem might be me while also recognizing that the other problem is your reaction to me exerting authority and corrections. He doesn’t listen to words, doesn’t read emails, finds my text tone passive aggressive when I’m just being terse. I’m bending over backwards for this Nancy who also has a habit of going toxic masculinity at the drop of a hat and shouting myself, coworkers, and vendors down If I was brave, he’d be fired, stat.

This is one of the things that i have been thinking about and you just spoke my heart out. Yes, i do the same thing but i didn't realise it before until recently when it suddenly struck me after someone else did the same thing. The apology that i give now is: "Look, I can't possibly dare to imagine how hurt you are, but i do understand that i was wrong terribly here. I promise you i won't do it again, and i wanna know what can i do for you to forgive me and allow me to repair the cracks."

Sorry has never repaired anything ever and apologizing out of guilt for relief for the actions they did isn't an apology, either. Yes, focus on what actually happened and changing or correcting behavior and acknowledgment of THEIR hurt (not yours) and being effective in resolution and.. consistency. I appreciate your brain. 💙

You are so insightful! The way you break it down makes it easy to understand in a relatable way! Much appreciated. Thank you

He telling people my tricks 😭🙏

The way I've experienced this is when I call someone out on their bullshit and they say "Well I must be a terrible person/coworker/parent/etc." They wanna make me feel bad about what they did and they don't want to face the consequences for their actions.

This is do deep , so right ,so on point : in the end there is no change because there nothing acknowledged.Thank you so much , to make us reflect on our own behavior and the behavior of others too. Thank you .

My father did this to me recently when I was opening up to him about my struggle with depression and how far I’ve come as a person and how I was starting to finally feel optimistic about the future again, and then he immediately turned it around and said “What did I do to you to make you so screwed up?” And then went on the long self pity party about how all his children hate him and how he must be an awful father. And of course I start trying to comfort him and tell him how he’s not an awful father and that no one hates him and he quickly recovered. When I got home and realized how screwed up that entire conversation was I got so angry. I haven’t really spoken to him since. And now today is Father’s Day and I’m literally crying because I don’t have a father I want to celebrate. It really hurts

This. When i still lived with my mom and i called her out on something she would never acknowledge or own what she did. We would get in fights where i stormed off to my room because she didnt listen. After a few minutes she would come in crying saying "I dont want to fight". And then i would have to comfort her while i was still mad and hurt because i love my mom and i didnt want to be a monster. Pissed me the hell off.

Shew omg. I needed this.

It's usually, "I sorry YOU...." smh. My Hubby's mom is a narc. "Inherited" his behavior from her. So, I work so hard to train my kids to apologize for exactly how they hurt the person.

This gets me more validation for cutting someone off a while ago who I might've gotten in a relationship with if I didn't. For a while I wasn't quite sure if what they did was really deserving of being cut out of my life, even if I was sure that they were making it worse, but the more I look back on it, and thanks to stuff like this, the more I realize just how much of a bullet I dodged

I feel like I do this. My sister is BPD. Growing up, when she’d do something awful to me, she’d never own up. She’d just blame me for making her do it. When I make a mistake, I am the actual bad guy. Not the other person. I need them to know I screwed up, not them.

Also "I'm sorry that happend", an "apology" with no accountability.

My mom did this all the time so i just learned to say "yes your right". Stops em from saying it real quick if you agree with them

My dad does this and he uses his lack of awareness to keep doing the same things over again and trying to get pity because he claims he doesn’t mean to and to ‘take it easy on dear old dad’….. I hate it… I would never refer to myself as dear old anything to get away with something

I was sorry, every little mistake I made just made me feel even more like I'm the worst person to ever exist. Nobody should have been around me because I was really bad to be friends with. I don't even know if anyone should even know because I still unintentionally hurt people through my self hate sometimes. When I say "I'm sorry I'm a bad person" I do mean I'm sorry for doing that thing, and I'm also sorry for everything else I've ever done wrong toward that person. I think they should stop trying to tell me "you're not a bad person" and just accept the apology and stop being around me when I clearly hurt them.

Dude honestly i am learning a lot from you and it’s been a while since i have seen a very straight forward educational channel.. cheers

Bro you explain this so well. Thanks for what you do

I just saw some of your stuff, after following a post on Instagram that you had I think at Jimmy on relationships, one of his posts. Love this work you’re doing around trauma and healing, and especially healing after cluster b abuse. I don’t know if it’s just coming to all of our awareness at the same time or if all the selfishness and evil and full on narcissism and psychopathy have just come to ahead, but it’s really one of the most important issues of our time. Costing unimaginable amounts to our society, healthcare system, mental health, and early death from all sorts of causes, but especially people taking their own life. It’s hard to understand how we got to this point where the most common cause of death in our teenagers is that. When they should be opening up and expanding into the most fun and exciting years.

I didn't know this. Might have to change my ways

omg the ‘push aside’ edit on the table was so smooth

Yup this is what my low self esteem and self hatred ass would say. I shouldnt just bother apologizing

This is exactly what my boyfriend did and now it makes sense why i didn't feel like his alologies were genuine

So very accurate. Thank you for putting words to this experience.

Typical narcissist approach to an “apology”.

You tell them it's toxic and if they can't talk to me like a grown up human then don't talk to me

Some people also never learned what sorry means because they're stunted by drugs (proscribed or otherwise) or parental abuse. Until recently i thought being in pain was what made an apology genuine, so i put myself in pain whenever someone asked for an apology, thinking that was what they were asking of me, and thats how the world works. Sorry actually means 'i hurt you and i was wrong to do it. I won't do it again'

Thank you bro, now I can sincerely apologise and not sound like a prick

Gosh, this is really triggering and affirming bc my ex would either blame me or blame herself like this and just, to jave it confirmed that I'm not crazy, that she was abusive even if she didn't _fully_ realise it.. I.. thank you.

So let’s completely disregard self-hating insecure people that actually feel that way and are in no way trying to find pity from the other person, but simply stating what they truly feel and believe?

I got this self-pity party as response when telling an ex-friend to not misgender me. It was so convenient everytime. I bet said ex-friend didn't even bother to research, because there were no questions, just this grip of shame coloring how to approach "apologies". Shame is such a way to unlisten someone else, it prevents you from actually empathizing...

This was my whole childhood with both of my parents, I'm no longer in that situation, but I still haven't completely healed from it.

I like how to present your message. Suggestion, include a next step that gives viewer understanding and the apologizer a step to do better.

Great Point.

My boyfriend and I are heavily damaged mentally cuz we both have been through some really rough stuff and we genuinely feel like we're terrible for our partner sometimes. Both of us don't mean it as bait so please talk to eachother or read the room when things like this happens cuz it's really situation based sometimes

golden words

I needed this

Why do i have to feel sorry? Why do people need a apology? I never felt like it is important, but other people complain about me never saying sorry. I just want to understand why people want others to feel sorry.

Oh dear god.... And I've been doing this exact thing for so fucking long... I. I don't even know what to do. I don't know what to say. The fact I've been doing something horribly narcissistic for more than year just hit me like a truck full of bricks.

Yes Matt 🙏💯

❤ sooooooo true ❤

Damn. I do this all the time and ive just realised its a bad thing.

Well said !!!😮😮

Sometimes, my husband doesn't know he's asking for an apology when I deflect this way, but he still feels his feelings pushed aside. Though apologizing often gets the response, "I don't want you to be sorry, I just want you not to [fill-in-blank for which I was apologizing]."

So, if this is the case, and what happened to me was huge, and the individual expresses this type of apology but will never be able to see how disingenuous it is, how can I heal and move on when there was no authentic apologetic closure?

Yup

My ex would never take accountability. I really am trying to break from the curse my family has given me. But all she did was say it's because of her father or mom. Never her. When she showed even a side of her that was growth she would break down. Today I told her I forgive her . She ignored it.

I hate the one that goes "I'm sorry you felt that way." I thought it was going to be an apology but then they just had to continue talking after saying sorry. It is such a slap in the face! It is putting the blame on the one who was hurt for simply being hurt. If someone stabbed another and said, "oh I am sorry you feal pain." I am sure everyone would think that person was stupid. So how is it people don't see how stupid and cruel that fake apology is? Or do they know amd just don't care?

OMG!!! This is my mom 💯

Honestly whenever I hear this I just tell them „Yeah, you suck.” or „Yeah, you’re terrible.” which is kind of mean honestly but I don’t want to deal with their bullshit. I’m not sure if that helps the other person though LMAO

Can you model healthy apologie and what it looks like to genuinely be aplogetic? I have often felt so bad for making a mistake or feeling wrongly that it s difficult not to interrnally go into this mind trap ' i an bad' however, i do genuinely feel devastated if ive wronged anyone or if my horrible mood has effected anyone around me.. Occasionally i cannot apologise too soon becUse i am so angry with myself for not being better. .. I dont like the idea of having others feeling brushed aside . Thats never a intention. I pray my kids dont feel like this. Nut i dont see how they couldnt , bc as a single mom with a depression and anxiety ,i struggled alot, and was detrimental to my mental health. I work on it and i continue to. I know my mother did do this. I also remember feeling so aweful for something i dodnwrong as a kid and not being able to speak ,im sorry, bc i was so emtionally upset at what evr happened.... Either way.. more models of what it can be like and how a healthy person does it i think would really help all us

So what should we do? Just walk away? Is this the only solution? Love your vids btw❤❤

Nah, I tell em they suck 😂

I am sorry but this is the 3rd time I am seeing you and I am afraid I am gonna have to subscribe 🎉

Can there be a video of how you should make an apology? I love your vids and would like to learn😅

I really hope I haven't done it before! I feel like an asshole just thinking I've done it

Please post a vod of the zoom meeting from an hour or two ago. I missed it, unforeseen circumstances.

Great advice

Oops

So how do we respond when they say this? How do we invoke empathy and still hold our boundary?

what would be the best/proper way to apologise?

I wanted to join your webinar today so badly! I planned for it, set reminders and alerts for it, told my husband about it so I wouldn't forget and here it is two hours later and I completely missed it 😭 is there any way to see it after the fact??? I'm so incredibly disappointed in myself 😖

If this video came in February 2024 as in 3 months ago I would've made a quick decision to break up with my Saudi ex right there and then!

My fucking brother does this shit all the time

How should I apologize

Hello, I wanted to ask for advice on how to take responsibility for what you did and also explain what happened from your perspective without shifting the blame. Would it make sense if you said something like, “I’m sorry I pushed you. I was overwhelmed, but I should not have done that.” Also, if I feel really overwhelmed by the entire situation, is it better to leave until I calm down?

How do you call them out

Im gonna say it. Yeah, they suck for doing that. let's move past it and fix it. You don't not suck because you apologized. Like me and everyone else, you stop sucking when you change your behavior.

Fazem alguns dias que me liberei de uma pessoa assim

How do u know so much

How might you know how to differentiate between the first and the second?

🇵🇸🇵🇸❤

What?

I go with the "yeah you suck", do better

i learned growing up that, as a man, you apologize. Right or wrong. Women aren't mentally equipped to apologize and mean it, so, you apologize to get her to shut up. Its an excellent strategy.

@matthiasjbarker what is the right way to tell someone about this? like when someone acts like that