Ashes of Creation has a MAJOR Problem By sawmanUK | Roze Reacts 

Have any openworld full-pvp sandbox mmos suceeded, or are some boomers just nostalgic for a dead mmo which died because the "Hardcore pvp'er" population cannibalizes it's community leaving no casuals around to keep the game alive?

Oh man. I've only seen combat showcase for AoC and didn't look further until right now. "PvP-centric" is a death rattle of every MMORPG that tried it, ever. Yet for some reason every time new developers think "nah, it will be fine". No. It won't be fine. There's only one example of it working - EVE, until it didn't.

man i am so glad i found your channel you make some of the funniest content ever -a muk fan

is AOC open world pvp? if yes, it will fail. You built your character. You get ganked. That is a quit moment. Simple as that.

Alright. Been playing MMOs a very long time and this seems to be a reoccurring thing in MMOs on this level of cope; the idea that PvP will some how save the MMO this time. It won't. Unmitigated, uncontrolled PvP is what typically ends up killing an MMO and forcing a change in the end. And this is not a fringe belief, there are two decades of this going back to Ultima Online, to the modern day, of games that focused on PvP in development and tries to launch with it, and due to the fallout in the end were forced to change things because an MMO built on just unmitigated PvP does not work out in the end. Ashes like New World, will be forced to change post launch or fade into an obscurity like others that tried to tread that path. PvP is nice and fine when it something the people want to willingly take part in, and it has its own rewards and systems in play to help maintain a balance. But a game that is nothing but PvP, and pretending that's what a majority wants, is just not really. Not even on the WoW PvP servers do people actually want to be PvP'd all the time hence why they either go hide on a PvE server or spend most of their time mitigating the chances of an actual PvP encounter until they want it.

i wish a brand new MMORPG where the very first quest is "yes go kill 20 goblins" just to go and change the entire way of the mmorpg in the very next quest

26:10 The issue is, people misunderstanding this point. It's not about how many servers you have. It's about how well-made the game is, how many players *one server* could contain without eating shit. Another thing is, ON THE START of the game every server will have an issue of players overpopulating starting areas, so the initial pressure on the server will be WAY more than at any point further down the line. So yeah, there's no way in hell they will be able make this smooth. Doesn't matter the IRL capabilities of the servers or their amount.

21:40 While i get what you mean by this, the example is extremely awful. Yeah, let's use one of the worst communities ever, filled to the balls with toxic jackasses who just repeat this magical pharse while being dogshit at the game. Such an example of what people should do in mmorpg that is about to make all-in on PvP, ergo player-driven content. What could possibly go wrong, lol

Open PvP is a no-go zone. It's for no-lifers and streamers. It will NOT sustain a playerbase to sustain the game.

"There is nothing wrong with being too critical " - unless you disagree with me. PVP good , PVE bad. You get your kicks from being an assole, fine, but don't dictate how a civilised player should be able to play the game. If PVE servers failed, no problem. You think they would remove the victims you need from your PVP server? So what.

You should pause more when reacting to videos

I love the hopium Roze has to getting into a test server. Hell spend 8 hours like he said doing shit And then as he breaks into the top 100 qué.. the game will kick him out of the qué cos.... Idk... Potato shaped alien attack.

Am I the only one worried Alexandria Ocasio Cortez is going to see that thumbnail and think Roze is threatening to kill her?

This is gonna flop so bad, i just love it. These studios just don't have what it takes to make a good MMORPG. These are not stablished franchises, nor are pioneers of the genre. Hopefully this is the last mayor botch this genre sees for a while and current work just stop and reconsider. Like Riot did with theirs, with a massive franchise they already understood: MMORPGs to be sucessful they really need to offer something special that takes MMORPG players from their niches. Is gonna be another impossible to sustain live service game, very hyped, tons of players on release, and then decay, forgotten and a miserable slow draining death. Stay in any of the big five, XIV, WoW, GW2, TESO or RuneScape, there is nothing new these havent done already thats worth a purchase, and there won't be for another 10 years at the minimun.

New World was (is?) a buggy mess, I doubt being pve friendly contributed to their low player count.

I like my PVP in dedicated areas. I liked Tera's Battlegrounds and the alliance territories when those existed, I like GW2's WVW and SPVP. It let me travel to a place and opt-in to getting hard farmed by other people. Getting shat on while I'm trying to explore and look at a gorgeous game is an immediate turn-off for me. If AoC is a full forced pvp game like Archeage is/was/idk anymore because they've had so many relaunches, then this game won't be for me and I won't demand that they make it that way. I wish it luck though and I hope the folks that do like this style of MMO enjoy it. That is, if this game actually ever makes it out of alpha lol.

I always preferred burning crusade and Wrath over vanilla because it just felt like they were adding and improving rather than rehashing or chasing different ideas that wouldn't matter or carry over in the next expansion. (I didn't play Cata but I hear that it was good too) but anything after that I got back to playing and wow was never the same (In context of quality or improvement)

Seems like sawmanUK is a little extreme. "Is it really open if it is prerecorded?" It is far more open than any game development I have ever seen. I don't care if it is live or recorded, as long as we see something from the game. And after all they are a company that has to try and show their best to the playerbase. They are not just some random little youtuber who can get away with most things. That dude needs some perspective :) But interesting video nonetheless

I am in the process of leveling a character of every class in both retail and classic wow. I have completed the retail segment in about a month (I refuse to use evoker they’re dumb). 4 days in on vanilla and I have a single character at 20. I am pulling all the stops, I’m even making a friend play with me to get more difficult areas done, the only thing I’m not doing is cheating lol. They have nothing in common these two games.

I need this Patrick meme at the stary, where can a man find it ? 😂

@Roze Resyndicated What Mic are you using?

AOC is prob going to fail. I will not pre order or buy into the hype. If its good I will buy it. But i wont let some "Influencer" make up my mind for me.

If its gonna ever release, mainly the server capacity will be the detriment if its gonna be a success or not. The overhype creates a similar problem like Last Epoch - while not MMO, its server problems due to interest nearly killed the game entirely. New World was promising but also fell short with overpopulation that is slowly dying down with hours of login queues and inability to play with friends. IMO ignoring buggy mess of a release or balancing nightmare of having 32 classes, the launch will tell if the game will survive longer or not. For now is just fantasy star citizen.

RE the Dark Souls PvP. It is a complex topic that does come back to git gud in a circular way. In Dark Souls 1, 2 and 3 you have a bodily state where you are more powerful and have more health and can summon other players to play with you. While you are in that state others can invade you - so the trade off for getting help is you get invaded by someone with a fully primed murder on. In this way, if you git gud and beat the game without summons then you don't have to worry about invaders. How the Souls PvP relates to the discussion of "should AoC have PvE servers" is thus: In Bloodborne and Elden Ring, you can ONLY get invaded if you have summoned another player. There is no bodily state you have to be in to summon others, there is little draw back to dying now. I think the changes to the PvP is because of people complaining about getting slapped in early areas when the newer players felt they needed to be bodily powerful all the time. To relate it back to AoC: as a PvE GW2 Nelly, the devs should not compromise on their game vision to accommodate anyone - streamers especially. Because when the stream moves on to the next big thing, what do you have left? A game catered to streamers with noone streaming it. I think Fromsoft compromised on the PvP in the more recent Souls games because of the heavy amount of complaints from a certain player group within the player base. And it is lesser because of it. It is more memorable to be trying to get through the Anor Londo rafters with a guy trying to invade you, or trying to work through Undead Settlement with a bunch of people trying out the Mound Maker invasions. But what do i know, I'm a PvE enjoyer. There is no such thing as bad publicity after all.

AoC will die because: - the potential playerbase for PvP-focused MMOs is small (people who want fair PvP play non-MMO PvP games) - the playerbase of PvP-focused MMOs always shrinks quickly because PvP in MMOs never is fair (gear difference, time investment to farm difference, group sizes difference), and because the winners get rewarded with resources/gear while the losers keep getting farmed to the point where they quit out of frustration (rich get richer, poor get poorer) - the combat feels clunky and uninteresting - game has no distinct visual style, looks very generic - can't create lustful female characters and there's no fanservice with female armor designs

The real issue with AoC is the uncritical feature bloat where the devs want to add something because it's cool without thinking about how it'll affect the other features promised. These two examples are off the top of my head. - Full PvP vs altered spell power depending on the biome: Because people who play PvP are famous for their love of player power elements they have no control over. /s - Colonisation vs levelling: The levels of the events become larger the more dangerous the zones are. Colonising a zone makes it less dangerous and you can, as the feature was promised colonise every zone. Those are just two examples and you can find many more once you start looking at the features in the context of each other. That the devs have missed this is indicative of one of two things. 1. They're massively incompetent and should never even be trusted to run a fast food joint. 2. The devs have surrounded themselves with Yes-men and removed anyone with a dissenting opinion. Neither are good signs for the long-term viability of AoC.