As someone who is on the asexual spectrum, the idea that I wouldn't be friends with someone before dating them is absolutely insane to me. Not to mention that the idea that you can't be friends with women really feels like you don't think women are people in the same way that men are.
Yeah, I don't think he's saying that. He's said on several occasions that his wife is his best friend. I think he means in the dating context to be as clear-cut as possible. His sect of Judaism is incredibly structured in its courting procedures essentially to match up values and goals first and then through the process, (which inevitably you'll become friends through the process if it lasts til marriage. As they'll be having high-quality conversations and hanging out together. Which is literally just friendship except there's a possible end goal of marrying and building a life together).
as someone who can't feel sexual attraction unless I'm BFFs with someone, concepts like the friendzone are really gross and harmful. I need to know someone as a friend before dating is ever an option.
I’m so over the trend of people giving advice on things they have no expertise in. All Ben can speak about authoritatively when it comes to dating is his own experience. There’s absolutely no reason to think it will apply to anyone else.
It's especially weird when he talks about what women feel and experience, with no sources to back it up of course. His background is in political science and law, so... that hardly qualifies him to talk about the female mind. He's just drawing on the old implied trope of "women are emotional and need relationship and protection which makes them GREAT at being mothers and taking on all unpaid family responsibility and emotional labour with no real authority, thank you for volunteering I know you won't say no" as contrasted with "men are rational, can separate from their emotions, they have Cold Hard Rationality with zero emotional empathy which innately excuses their mistreatment and objectification of women but paradoxically makes them worthy leaders without needing to earn it because big rational brain, no emotional empathy to 'cloud' their judgement from the Hard Choices of what Must Be Done". I'm getting really, really tired of those harmful tropes.
Good god. My husband was my best friend at college before we started dating. Dating and falling in love with him was the most fulfilling, joyful experience in my entire life. I was nervous at first that dating would ruin our friendship, but hubby said "I want to be your friend and your lover." That was the right answer. :). We are still best friends 32 years later. Also, there's a big difference between "being a friend" and "pretending to be a friend so you can get some tail." Ben is correct that you shouldn't lurk around in the "friend zone" hoping to get lucky. If you like someone, just ask them out. If they say no, move on. But my parents had an interfaith marriage and were married for 50 years. Jesus.
For Shapiro, religious/political beliefs and core values are the same thing. The dangerous thing is that a person can espouse the same faith creeds but not have the same understanding of kindness, mercy and justice.
@@kevinbissingerhow do you jump from "i was nervous for reason x" to "i said no" 😅 Theres such a thing as a conversation... Or the makeout session OP mentioned 😂
I love the insecurity and emotional illiteracy of Ben's advice. My wife, of 16 years, are not of the same religion but early on in our relationship, we established that we wanted a long-term relationship/marriage and that we had the same values. I even became good friends with her ex-boyfriend and had many single female friends, and she had lots of male friends. Since we communicated openly, there was never jealousy. It's sad that people like Ben don't know how to enjoy relationships, romantic or platonic, with people of another gender (or their preferred gender).
Im only 18 but my boyfriend of 4 years is christian and I'm not im also vegan and hes not and we don't let these things get in the way of our relationship and its Completely hwalthy he agrees to eat vegan food with me sometimes and I let him talk about his beliefs it can be Completely healthy
The truth is that some relationship thrive when "unevenly yoked" (it's a xtian concept about not being with someone who doesn't share your faith) because then the relationship isn't an echo chamber and diversity of opinion and view are just as much building blocks as anything else.
I'd personally rather date someone who stans a different K-Pop group than I do. But I wouldn't want to date someone who had a religion or that is a theist. different favorite colors, cool. different favorite foods, dope. different races, nice. those are interesting differences.
If you see someone and want to talk to them because they're sexually attractive (and have no interest in being friends with them) it's because you want a sexual relationship with them not a romantic one. Also, I don't see how someone would not be mentally healthy enough to be friends with a woman but would be mentally healthy enough to date one. Sounds like someone willing to traumatize a woman for his own sexual gratification.
Absolutely agreed and well said. Thing is people need to understand that in order to date someone, you need to see if they are mentally healthy to appreciate you as an individual first. Dating is all about mutually loving and respecting each other while knowing each other well. If you can form healthy genuine friendships with the opposite gender, you can very much date them.
It's actually just as dehumanizing to men to tell them that they can only find validation in romantic partnerships. That just being friends isn't enough.
Ben Shapiro says: women need to be comfortable for sex, they don't want one night stands. What he misses is that men, in the USA, are almost innately comfortable, whether in a bar or going to some stranger's place. Guys are raised here to think they are competent and have the answers and solutions. Women are often questioned so much, they may just stop talking and alway feel like they are wrong. Women are primed to be uncomfortable in the outside world. I have many women friends who have had flings. Most of them were in the military and are NOT worried about getting hurt. They usually have flings with guys they could bench press. It's not about lack of interest, it's a lot about RISK, and comfort. Women ha a lot more at risk, health wise. Pair that with socializing that makes men overly confident and women UNDERconfident, and it makes sense why no ladies (in a single study of 100) want a one night stand.
Yh Ben IS making another Statement that leads me to the conclusion that i must be some weird abberation. Cuz Dude, Most women i know have had flings, including me, it's Just that we tend to be more selective. My flings were with Guys i Had Seen before, at Parties where i felt Safe. Never in a Club with a Stranger. Not because of Lack of interest but because Ive been socialised that hooking Up in a club is A) slutty B) Dangerous I simply never wanted to risk going with some cute, suave stranger to a place i didnt know to have a maybe mediocre experience. The risk and the benefits simply dont match up.
Hey, FYI, the study he mentioned about sending men and women to proposition people for one night stands in a bar, per your question? They also tested propositioning men with men and women with women, and the women's response rate was comparable to the men's in a queer context. And one of the reasons that people gave was that men tend to be selfish or unskilled lovers if not with a long time partner, as well as yes, safety concerns.
@@theantibot yeah, it might have been a followup or something? But I remember reading it several years back, it wasn't like... just a simple "Would you like a one night stand, check yes or no." They had a whole debrief survey regardless of the answer cuz they were... you know, social scientists, interested in studying human mating behavior.
I think slut shaming also plays a big role in women being less interested in casual sex than men. It can be very socially risky for women to own their sexuality in the setting of a purity culture influenced society
yeah, there are a lot of reasons women are less likely to be interested in straight hookups. There's always the safety factor when it comes to strangers, as well as the fact that a lot of men don't.. prioritize women's pleasure in sex so a lot of women feel like a hook-up is a lot of risk and effort for possibly/probably not even getting to orgasm. I definitely feel like the willingness to hook up is proportionately higher in lesbians/among sapphic couplings in general which sorta points to all these issues.
Strongly agreed. The purity culture in society can cause issues like making people especially women unable to express themselves fully. Also , safety, comfort and understanding is very important in those situations, no matter what. As a man myself, I tend to keep important things in mind regardless if I'm willing to do something casual or serious.
First happy anniversary Drew & Taylor!! I met my wife October 11, 1996 and I was not interested in a romantic relationship at the time, so we started as just friends. July 4, 1997 I realized I was falling in love with her and asked her to be my girlfriend, she said yes. We ended up moving in together on August 1, 1997. We lived together in love and arguments with each other, and I proposed to her feeling very secure, for the first time ever, in my choice to do that. We got married January 22, 1999 and were together through both great and bad times growing stronger in love. June 7, 2022 Kerri and I professed our love to and for each other in the presence of her parents and brother for the last time, and I held her hand for the last 8 hours of her life. I'm still very much in love with her, so Ben's advice is not absolute.
Life is grim. Its not good or bad. It just is. Also, given that temperament is innate, theres not much you can do about the trajectory of your grief. All the studies show you end up back where you were after about five years. If you know this at the beginning it makes it easier to handle. If that's important to you. It can also be a source of strength
I wasn’t expecting to cry today. But, I’m okay with it. 😭 💜Thank you for sharing your beautiful love story, and I’m so sorry your beloved wife is no longer with you. 💜
@@Ashaliyeva Thank you for your empathy and appreciation of mine and Kerri's love story. The picture to the left is of Kerri and I early in our marriage.
For about 10 seconds I was in agreement with Ben... if a man wants to date a woman he shouldn't try and becomes friends as some kind of slow play tactic to becoming a boyfriend. If you like someone you should tell them... if being "just friends" hurts you emotionally because you desire to be more, then you shouldn't be close with that person. And attempting to con a woman to be with you by being a "friend" first, means there is something wrong with you. Basically everything else he says is BS.
I agree. My issue with the way that men who do decide they want to date women they are friends with is that they are typified as creeps or fake friends. You can't really know you want to date someone outside of finding them physically attractive until you get to know them. Sometime without you knowing, feelings develop and bam, this person you are friends with makes your knees turn to jello when she says hi. One of the problems I have with discussions like this is there is no talk of it also being a woman's responsibility to express interest. She's some passive leaf in the breeze who is acted on by a man's desire for her. She must also know if a guy she meets is attractive to her right? Why are we putting all of the pressure on the man to put all of his cards on the table or figure everything out?
My life became drastically richer when I started treating each relationship of mine as unique. Relationships are fluid, the ebb and flow and just let them evolve naturally. I've had great friendships turn into relationships and great relationships turn into friendships. Each relationship requires something different and learning about yourself and those you spend your time with is a wonderful experience. Also, as a Pansexual, if I couldn't befriend someone I am possibly attracted to, I'd be deeply lonely. As usual, great work, both of you！
I’m close friends with a couple of ex-boyfriends and and it drives me crazy when I hear people banging on about how you can’t be friends with an ex when you’re in a new relationship - that it’s disrespectful to the new partner.
@@Katie2986 just 😒 I can be friends with whoever I and the other person wants. Having sex, date or even being a long term relationship does not make impossible to be friends after. I do not even get why people think it does
Marriage in reality is no different from just living together Ben, the piece of paper doesn't actually do anything magical or special. Absolutely nothing changes from the day before to the day after your wedding because marriage is are not magic. Living together before and after the wedding means absolutely nothing Ben, all it does is give you a better view of what you're getting yourself into and gives you the opportunity to really evaluate if that's what you want. Living together before marriage gives you a better insight as to what you are getting yourself into and it makes you more informed and it causes you to have a far more informed decision if you do decide to get married. Ben why are you so against informed decisions.
me having not at all watched the video: I'm just gonna assume it's because if his wife had had a clue as to what he was like before marrying him she wouldn't have married him,
I know someone who got married multiple times. She said that if she lived with them first. She would never have married them. Living together helps to see if you're truly compatible.
What people seem to forget: a wedding is the ceremony around signing a contract that defines who gets your stuff when you die. The romantic idea is very very young. Marriages, especially the religious ones were never meant to have anything to do with compatibility or love or anything. It was always about children/ lineage and stuff/ money. That's not inherently bad,I even think it's a good idea as it prevents people from being at each others throats about that nice ring or that watch... Mostly. But it's not being married that makes a good couple, it's what makes us emotionally mature enough to live and love another human being. That's like saying good people are only good because they will be punished otherwise. Just...no. bad people might be kept in check with that, that doesn't make them good.
I was best friends with my husband before getting married. We stayed married for 22 years 8 months before he died 3 weeks ago. I believe two people should be friends before getting into a serious relationship (including marriage). Most of the people I know that were friends with their spouse before marriage are either still married OR are bestfriends with their ex- after their divorce. Just my experience.
About that hookup study ... there was a followup where they took people's sexuality into account and got a lot more follow-up information from the people who were approached, and it absolutely was the case that men were seen as more dangerous than women. The part that stood out in my memory was that gay men felt *more comfortable accepting a sexual overture from an unvetted woman* (who they aren't especially attracted to) than from an unvetted man (who representsa threat). It's a wonderful follow-up study - definitely worth looking up, if you're interested.
Honestly in the "dating is not fun" call, I think "fun" is a euphemism for "sex" lol The whole piece about how women need that emotional relationship is basically saying "a woman can consent but she doesn't really know that she doesn't actually want sex". He's saying that any woman who says she wants just sex is deluded by these "feminist lies about consent". That she doesn't actually want sex, she wants a relationship, and it's the responsibility of a man to not give in to her consent because he knows best that she'll be happier with sex within marriage
Which is oerfect for ben because sex being fun isn't ever an important part of the equation- for her. But by the time she figures that out she's trapped and it's a sin to leave.
@@presentfuture7563 Well you could see it as patriarchal but he would also say that the man is also "damaging" himself. In his world view, having random sex isn't conducive to forming stable marriages or even morally a good thing.
As an aromatic, I'm never going to love a video on dating lol. I have a MAJOR problem with the concept of "friendzone" like "what, being friends is inherently bad? Dude, I LOVE my friends. If you're my friend, that's special". On the same lines, I HATEHATEHATE the language of "more than friends"/"just friends". I may not give hearts and roses but I LOVE my friends so fiercely, how DARE you trivialise my feelings and say that is lesser
I feel like you are imprinting your own feelings about friends onto other people when they say that, at least that’s how I’m interpreting your comment. To most people that are not aromantic, we tend to have stronger emotions associated with our romantic partners than our friends. Don’t get me wrong, we still feel strongly about our friends. When I was little I used to be very timid and didn’t want to do anything bad that would disappoint my parents, but when a kid started messing with my friend I was wholeheartedly ready to fight someone 2 feet taller than myself if it meant helping my friend out. With romantic partners, we tend to just have this extra element to it that’s hard to describe that adds on to this. So when people say “we’re just friends” they are talking about themselves, and most people get what they mean. They are not calling you out and saying that you don’t feel as strongly as they do towards the people you care about just because you have “just friends”.
@@_Sloppyham This. I'm fiercely loving, loyal, and protective of my friends, but a romantic element is alchemic-it's intimacy of a different degree and sensation. In this, the so-called "friendzone" is a legitimate (and often torturous) problem if you want or need something different/more from that person than wonderfully close friendship. Realizing my (newly encountered!) emotions clearly surpassed what I had known as "friendship" was how I realized I wasn't actually ace.
Once someone asked me on a date, I said I wasn't interested, then they said why don't we go out just to see if we might be interested in each other and if nothing else it could just be a nice way to spend some time. I said okay because I was on the fence, thought I could potentially be interested. At one point in the date they very forwardly asked to go have sex with me. I said no. They said I had wasted their time. I felt like shit because I stupidly thought someone would enjoy just spending time with me under the pretense of we're deciding if we're interested in each other and if not it's okay. I also felt like maybe I had made a social mistake, like maybe "I'm not interested but I'll still go on a date to see if I might be" translates to "I'm not interested romantically but I am interested sexually" but I talked with some friends who said they'd never assume someone wants to jump in bed with them just because that person's on a date with them.
Also, THEY MANIPULATED YOU! They said it wouldn't be a date and there was no pressure for more, but then accused you of wasting their time. A complete weirdo!
Omg. He generalizes so much. I’m female and I like sex with no strings. I have had to communicate with men so that they understand my perspective and don’t get hurt.
Sure yeah, communication is key and just because he's referencing a general rule doesn't mean there aren't exceptions. However, I've seen a lot of women close to me get hurt because they start a FWB and then "catch feelings" with a guy who has made it clear from the beginning that he doesn't want a relationship. Then that shit crashes and burns leading to more insecurity, anxiety, etc about relationships and men.
@@Via_The_InternetHe isn't referencing a general rule, he's just referring to stereotypes he beliefs that aren't backed by any science at all. Also, you talked about your experiences, but the amount of women you have met in your life is less than 0.00001% of the entire female population in the world.
Everyone is different. I am a dude but end up falling when I do no strings lol. I did end up remaining friends with one. However my gf got jealous and didn't approve of staying friends. Communication is key. As I wouldn't mind an eventual relationship and if that was no with me I would reject you and move on
I always felt icky about the idea without really knowing how to put it into the words. Another RU-vidr put it this way: "If you complain that you've been friend-zoned, then admit that you f@ck-zoned the person."
@@Saezimmerman yeah... I got into an argument about the friend zone and whether or not it actually exists... my point is that it does, but only for teens. For people that don't understand how relationships are meant to work and are trying to figure it out and people that haven't figured out how to communicate boundaries and desires it exists. If an adult thinks it exists then they never matured past the relationship skills of a highschooler.
Some of the things Ben says, I agree with on the surface, but you guys are good at looking at what he’s saying in the full context of his work, and pointing out problems that I might not have noticed. That’s why I appreciate reaction videos from you guys.
I just started dating someone and we have so much in common and similar life experiences except she believes in ghosts and astrology. As a materialist that doesn’t bother me in the slightest because it’s not malignant, hateful or oppressive beliefs like Ben has
I'm always amazed how Ben Shapiro acts so confident and answers each and every question, giving advice no less, basically without thinking about it first, if only for moment. He's the know-it-all-type his tribe actually warns us about in regards of science based knowledgable people who actually are experts in their fields, but they, Shapiro's camp, don't believe a word they say.
I have no issue with folks discussing what works for them and what they think the right path is. But his approach is very … cringy and advocating a fringe view of relationships that is just plainly juvenile and wrong. I supposed the bit that makes it most ridicule-able is the framing it as not a discussion, but a decree from Shapiro, the "authority."
Nearly every answer is “be the man and ask her out, don’t be friends with women, and don’t do the deed before marriage.” How often does he even need to think anyways?
Only fringe religions truly advocate what he is espousing. How much of this is his religion, and how much of this is his stunted emotional growth and lack of worldly experience?
Some of my most meaningful relationships were short lived but we continued to be friends. I would never give up those experiences, ever! It only added growth perspective.
Me and my wife were friends for two years first, lovers for 23 years after that, and counting. I honestly can't imagine how to be married long time without being friends. That said though, Ben's first comment seems to be about being friends as a sort of 'tactic' to pursue a woman. That, I agree, is a bad idea. It's also can't say anything about the virtue of being friends, as friends do not do this cruel thing to each other. The thing about being lovers with your friend is that you have this relationship already in which you can say things to each other, you already have this rapport of honesty. Also, it's easier to deal with moments where 'the spark is gone' - it doesn't have to be 'romantic' all of the time: you're still buddies and can do fun things together, and can have good talks and explore the world together. The spark will return.
Loved your point about marriage not always being the point of dating. I remember my dad expressing loneliness in the years after my parents divorce. He often said that he just wanted someone to go to the movies with him. As an adult, I feel like his willingness to date casually for the fun of it really helped him heal from losing his marriage in a way my mother never did.
Not necessarily. I'm Ace, and I can do romantic relationships (they're really nice when they work), with zero sex. If you don't feel romance either, then you're AroAce on top of regular Ace. :P
My oldest friend is a woman. We've been close friends since elementary school. Everyone thought we would end up married, but neither of us felt that way towards each other. We even ended up attending each other's wedding. Both our spouses are now friends and we often all hang out together, and couldn't be happier.
That one guy that called in and said he got rejected, and Ben said no don't continue to be friends... I think Ben gave good advice in that case. If he was calling because he was confused still about how he felt about being rejected and still being friends, then I'd say that most likely that caller is not ready to be friends with that woman. He'll be thinking about it and will become resentful after he sees her in another relationship. It's best that he just stays away until he's mature enough to be able to move past that kind of feeling.
I don't get this whole "friend zone" idea... Like, oh no, how terrible! You have a friend! What could be worse than that? 🙄 I sometimes say that if it weren't for "the friend zone," I might not have any friends at all 😅
love the acknowledgment that polyamorous people exist from you guys ❤ there are so many ways to relate to other people and it doesn’t have to be in the monogamous heteronormative way conservatives are so obsessed with
I fear it could be jealousy manifesting as a feeling of unfairness that they had to (and often still have to) closet themselves while others do not. Be free and stop hating for others what you don’t want to give to yourself. You can discuss factually deeply studied pros and cons without harboring religiously indoctrinated or culturally inculcated hate.
@@keithb6717 poly does not deny or neutralize patriarchy. Men are still in a position of power and are statistically more inclined to do harm (like in this case)
@@anainesgonzalez8868 Patriarchy? You’re one of those, eh? Do you realize how stupid you sound to an educated woman? They’re strong independent women who made bad irrational decisions like women often do. Did you know that when you spread your legs that pregnancy is a possibility? Did you know that having sex with several different people increases said risk?
Storytime! I thought I had a great guy friend. Until 2 years into the friendship he tried to kiss me. I was shocked and laughed it off. He never answered any of my calls or texts ever again. We were both in our 30s.
Which is why I agree with Ben that intentions need to be made in the beginning. A friendship that really is a relationship in the other person's head is a lie and flawed. Maybe alcohol could have played a role and he was embarrassed? Did you have a crush on him?
Drew makes such a good point (at about 38 mins) that language exists and even if men and women approach sex and dating differently on an instinctive level, then we are capable of having a conversation where we each hear the other's thoughts and then decide together if we're aligned enough to have a relationship. We have these wonderful technologies of communication and it doesn't hurt to use them. This really made me laugh. "He's saying that we can either talk about marriage or we can't talk at all."
My husband and I were friends first and We have been married for 30 years. The foundation you build helps later. If you go into a relationships you want long term, sex first, you risk not knowing who they really are.
For a moment I was wondering if I have the video on 1.25x or 1.5x speed... BTW, on 0.75x speed Ben starts to sound normal 😂, excluding the content of what he says...
My ex and I stayed friends after and it wasn't at all awkward. He asked me out once or twice again throughout, I asked him out at one point, and we both turned each other down because of timing and because we just weren't feeling a relationship in general at that time respectively. Now we are dating again, 10 years later, because we were in a place where we wanted to try it again. It's funny, he starts it out saying being upfront is the most important thing in a relationship, but then he assumes that the woman won't tell the guy if it's too awkward to remain friends. The only universal rule to dating that I've found is that, if you are looking for an emotional connection, talking more is typically better than talking less. Outside of that advice like this is always going to fall short for someone lol
my husband and I were best friends in college. platonic FRIENDS. we were in the same friend group and hung out and shared deep dark feelings and secrets and THAT'S HOW WE STARTED TO FALL IN LOVE. THROUGH FRIENDSHIP. I wouldn't be married to him if we had tried traditional dating. we never had a first date, it all just happened because we got drunk at a party and realized we had feelings for each other. And now I can't imagine my life without him.
18:13 I’m demisexual and romantic, I literally have no attraction to people until I get to know them. The job thing is such an unfair comparison in the way he put it. It would be more like if you open a business with your friend and not so much like hiring your friend because you need to fill a job if that makes sense. That’s how it works in my mind anyway, there wouldn’t be a ‘job opening’ if that friend weren’t there in the first place. I’m sure different people think of it differently
Take this from somebody that made a lot of mistakes in relationships. I think I was friend zoned quite a bit because I didn't let the other person know that I was interested soon enough (because I was afraid of rejection). Things can become creepy if you keep things buried and the other person can kind of pick up on it I think eventually it's just not healthy and wastes a lot of people's time. I can't be friends with a romantic interest if the feelings aren't mutual. At least it would take a while to be friends again.
That's not the friend zone. It's really cruddy to only be interested in women because you want a relationship with them. That's not treating women as equal individuals that really is treating women as objects because it's saying that she's not valuable unless you're dating her. It is really really crappy to know that someone only wants to talk to you because they want something more from you not because they genuinely enjoy you as a person they only see you as an object. I want to have conversations with people and I want to form friendships with people and I don't want it to be because they have additional motives. If I find out someone is only my friend because they wanted to get with me that is absolutely heartbreaking because it says I'm not worth someone else's time if they can't get in my pants.
@@UlexiteTVStoneLexite I think I agree with all your points. I don't believe that was the only reason why I wanted to be friends with certain people but that certainly was the case with some. And I do regret it and I ended up being very unhappy for a long time until I figured that out. Thankfully, now that I'm much older, I understand a lot of that. My point I think was that I was trying to say people should be honest if they're interested and not pretend to just want to be friends. It's also difficult to be friends with someone who you have them rejected by, not that they did anything wrong, it takes time. Thankfully I'm not dating anymore I'm happily married and don't have to worry about this anymore but I was trying to save some people some grief that's all.
@@UlexiteTVStoneLexite Agreed, I've had that happen to me a couple times, and it's heartbreaking. I thought you were my true friend, but no, you just wanted some pussy. So dehumanizing.
@@UlexiteTVStoneLexite That's not what he said though. He said that you should be upfront if you're interested in dating instead of pretending to want to be friends. You can be friends with women, but not as a disguise for romantic interest. I also agree with him on that it's really hard to be friends with someone you have feelings for. I am a bi woman, and fell in love with a straight friend. She's been my best friend for 10 years now, and it still hurts even though I know nothing can happen there. So I would definitely try to avoid being friends with people you're romantically interested in, it sucks.
@@Xizile93 that is still viewing the person as an object and not as a person. That is still only viewing the person as a worthy conversation all because you want something more from them. That is so crappy that's telling the person they aren't worth the other person's time unless they can get something more out of. That is so so disheartening to hear about. It is so so crushing to know that someone only wants to be with you because they want more from you than what you are. That is so credit to not want to be friends with somebody just because they're not interested in you. That is so disrespectful to them as a human being.
@@dreye3215 I highly doubt Ben Shapiro, of all people, given the chance, would just keep things a secret and not discuss what specific individual women want or do not want. This dude loves to talk. Makes a living doing it. The real issue, is these little segments are always so one sided. These two kids take words out of context, put words in his mouth, it’s absurd. If they sat down with him, and actually had a discussion, he would eviscerate their childish world views on what they think most men and women desire. Because we know what they desire. It’s been studied for years. I would argue, these two, are speaking for a very small minority of wall flowers and unusual people. There is a normal. Despite what sociologists want to teach us.
Ben’s response that one doesn’t need to be financially settled to enter into a dating for marriage relationship may very well be due to the trend within segments of the Orthodox Jewish community to marry very young but rely on continuing parental support until the young couple is able to stand on their own two feet. Having numerous family members in that community, I know that parental support is discussed and agreed upon before the two young people even meet. Obviously this model is not a given for all people within the Orthodox community, but it is not uncommon.
"Being in a relationship is mostly being friends" thats so true. You're only being physical a small amount of the time, most of the time you're just around that person, talking and hanging out just like friends do.
Why do people make relationships so difficult? Just treat other people the way you want to be treated, and leave it at that. No need to make life more complicated than it already is.
I’ve been wrestling with this in my own life, and in my experience, I get the best results by being direct about my interest. Even if the answer is no, at least I know I put myself out there. On the flip side, when I’ve tried to “test the waters” first, those dynamics often became strained and awkward. I will always be friendly with the women in my life, even those who have rejected me, but I’m also going to set boundaries, emotional and otherwise.
Years ago, a friend send me either a drunk text or a text meant to feel like a drunk text saying "I think you r really fit will you go out with of" I just didn't reply and we were fine. I thought it would be too awkward to bring it up, to discuss, he'd not asked in person and obv. if I'd been interested I'd have responded so my lack of response was a no. I just didn't want to add the expereince of having said "no" to him "formally" to our friendship and we carried on being friends just fine - we still are!
Nothing wrong with wanting to date someone but not wanting to be friends. If you have your good friends in life, why should you feel the need to collect another more and more friends? Friends are something far beyond a social media follower. If a person dates 10 people in a year are they really obligated to go do "friend time" with all of them?
I maybe just learned the best dating advice from your portion of the video. I also grew up in a conservative religious community and the dating and friendship rules were always so weird to me and made every interaction with opposite sex awkward. Later in life, I’ve learned that I am bi and I always had more romantic relationships with women because we could be friends first Edit: I also want to add, you both seem so thoughtful. It’s really nice to hear.
I always find the 'can guys really be friends with girls' thing incredibly hilariously heteronormative. Like... I'm a lesbian. I have been friends with other women my whole life. It's not.. hard to have an enjoyable platonic relationship with someone even if you're attracted to them. Most gay people have an entire lifetime of experience with this and the worst that happens from it is one or two awkward badly communicated pseudo-relationships as a teen. thinking that a) someone doesn't grow up having friends of multiple sexes and b) once they start being attracted to a sex, cannot be friends with people of that sex is patently ridiculous. Bi people can't have any friends at all turns out, rip to them
You don't have a pair of blue balls? What if the woman you adore ends up with a gf. A gf who treats her like crap and uses you as a therapist. That to me sounds like Dauntes Inferno.
People like Ben in that culture are very goal oriented towards marriage so the idea of even dating someone who isn't sure about say ever getting married at all, they need to know upfront so they can immediately move on. For Ben it's obviously about the goal & destination, and not the experience and unknown outcomes.
Ben needs a lot of reassurance in his relationships. That he needs the air-tight borders between him and women outside his marriage. He seems like structures are what keeps a marriage intact and there's some kind of mistrust that that he needs to deal.with in his life.
I mean...no it's a part of his religion which has a high happiness rate when it comes to relationships. They have a very up-front and honest philosophy when it comes to courting and it clearly works. I've seen *actual* distrust from people who have a less structured dating strategy. They start out as bushy-tailed and naive and start dating a guy and they are immediately in a sexual relationship. Then they very quickly form an emotional attachment and...oh the guy screwed them over. Now they have insecurity where there was literally nothing there before. They date again and oo that insecurity is kind of fucking over the relationship and boom! Now there's relationship anxiety. Ben literally has none of that shit because everything was straightforward and commitment focused from the beginning. His religion's version of dating puts a hold on sex, making it less high stakes. They focus on chemistry, values, and goals. Which means that nobody is being taken advantage of and assholes are SUPER easy to weed out.
37:00 Is it that men are more interested in sex… or is it that women are more likely to become sexual targets in bars/social settings and they know that..?
Hold on, I must say: being friends first is possibly the BEST way to go into a relationship. I was just friends with my girlfriend for years, and because we were only friends, we weren't as worried about showing our best side to each other or presenting in a way to appeal to each other, which is what often happens when you get to know someone through dating. So by the time we became a couple, we really knew each other well, and understood each other in a way that I don't think would have been so easy just dating from the jump.
I was friends with a woman, and admitted I had grown feelings, and was instantly called a creeper and a monster and a lier, that I had started out intending to grow close to get in her pants, while not even at all close in distance... I was really hurt by her and was ONLY telling her cause I was feeling out what I should or shouldn't do! Obviously she didn't reciprocate feelings, and I would have been fine with that, and just stayed friend and been happy to be that! So its not just Benny Shapz who thinks this way!
It would be helpful to hear what the woman has to say about your friendship. Maybe you were being creepy? Maybe she realized that you were just being her friend with the hope of being more than friends? I don't know. But my experience is that a lot of people don't realize when they are being creepy and most people resent people who pursue any relationship with ulterior motives. So, take that for what it's worth.
@@ladyv5655kind of shitty to see someone who had a bad experience and instantly give the benefit of the doubt to the other party who's not even here. Anything is possible, but also the guy said he's "grown feelings" you are allowed to change your mine over time imo.
@@vladys5238 , kind of shi!!y to assume that I must have had a bad experience to think as I do. 2 things, 1st of all, everybody has shi!!y experiences at one time or another. 2nd, my perceptions have been shaped by both my good and my bad experiences. My choices are based on how I believe they will affect me and those I care about. I owe exactly zero to anyone who may have chosen to catch feelings for me when I didn't do the same for him/her. Selfish, maybe. It's also selfish to try to impose your feelings on to a person who doesn't share them and doesn't want them.
@@ladyv5655 i was refering to OP(the person who wroye the comment). They had the shitty experience and you instantly gave the benefit of the doubt to the other party, instead of beginning by exercising some empathy for OP
Ben just has such a childish attitude about this. Men and women can absolutely be friends and you don't have to establish boundaries and you don't have to have both people being already married to other people. Not everybody has problems controlling themselves Ben. I can have male friends and not be interested in them all because I'm not just talking every guy that walks past me. I want to have friends but I'm not interested in anything more than friendship. I am pretty much Demi so I'm not going around and paying attention to how somebody looks and I'm not constantly on edge worrying that I might be tempted because that temptation isn't even remotely there in the first place. Is there is no possibility of temptation when I'm not even remotely interested in romance with other people. We can have conversations with people and not have any romantic interest in them and just want to have a good conversation.
@@optricks2469 no it's not. We are both adults and we both know how to act appropriately. Why would I need to set a boundary with another adult on how to be an adult ? We have never discussed boundaries because what is there to discuss?
@@UlexiteTVStoneLexite Apparently you don't a well acknowledged part of adult interaction is to set clear boundaries with people. Secondly you set boundaries so everyone involved understands the set expectations and things don't get taken to a place that the either party doesn't want.
@@optricks2469 apparently you don't know how to grammer. That was a poorly constructed sentence. I can't even figure out what you are saying. If you treat people with respect you don't need boundaries!! My husband and I don't have any established boundaries because we don't need to. We treat each other with respect. Listen kid, I have been with my husband for 17 years. We have never had any conversations about boundaries because appropriate behaviors are a given!
@@UlexiteTVStoneLexite The sentence was grammatically correct... (well I guess I could have added a comma after apparently but nonetheless still very readable to anyone who has passed a basic reading class). So are you admitting to not knowing how to read? How do you expect someone to respect a person's boundaries if you haven't stated them? Not everyone has the same boundaries.
I always hate arguments by analogy, except when they reveal something about the person making the argument. So, when ben says the right way to start a long-term marriage is by acting like you own a business and you're hiring an employee rather than friends deciding whether or not to start a business together, he's saying a lot more than he meant to.
i was best friends with my wife all through high school and college it wasnt until after that that we started dating and eventually got married being best friends with my wife is the best thing ever
31:57 I think it was more of a Freudian slip. He said dating to have fun means you have no care or compassion. Which implies that he maybe thinks care and compassion isn't fun? Fun in his definition might equate to emotional disregard for the other person. This is pretty consistent with the Christian idea that if there's fun it means it's sinful and therefore there must be no care or compassion. Or that if you hadn't thought about marriage then there must be no care or compassion. Framing it this way actually helped me to make sense of why anything that doesn't fit into the dating for marriage category is treated with contempt in religion. But it does make you wonder why they think it's more important to "ask a girl out" before you work on being friends. Is it because if you find out later that their values are different you can always try to change them? Is that really care and compassion? It also doesn't sound like much fun either.
Ben's advice makes sense if you think of him from the perspective of having social anxiety. His anxiety comes from his making relationships circle around BRUTAL betrayal for not following his script. He's constantly waiting for that betrayal. That's what you're seeing in his eyes.
Every time I hear dating advice, I'm reminded that my experience with dating is fundamentally different than everyone else because I'm a grey-asexual. I don't understand what normal sexuality is, so I can't tell the difference between someone spitting hard facts and someone who is way off.
I’m single after Christian marriage. My Ex said “ he can’t be friends with me to try resolve the marriage “ but that’s what I wanted and needed and hoped for . Now I don’t have a man because some men can’t be friends and often it’s the ones yr interested in 🤷♀️💜🙌🏼 I feel religion actually played a big part in the abuse that was in my marriage and for it’s issues too I know not all but it effects many I believe.🤷♀️
My husband is my best friend, I can't imagie having a functional relationship WITHOUT friendship being part of it. As someone who's only really able to fathom a relationship with someone once I've gotten to know them rather well I am comforted by knowing Lil' Benny and I wouldn’t have worked out.
As someone who was raised in that very patriarchal fundamentalism, Ben’s comments about it essentially being a waste of time to be friends with a woman that you are interested in romantically shows up how quick they are with Brittany seeing a woman down to how well she can serve them. Basically being friends with a woman isn’t useful or necessary. Yes, all you want to do is get in her pants. Because that’s a waste of time for you and doesn’t serve you in your ultimate goal according to his logic. Which I saw a lot of growing up.
My husband was my best friend for a year and a half before we started dating, we’re coming up on 2 years married 11 years in a relationship, and 12.5 as close friends. That foundation has gotten us through a ton.
I do agree that it’s a good idea to take a step back from someone if they’ve turned you down. I had a strong crush on someone last year. We went on a few dates and I thought it would lead to more but then he suddenly told that he’s not looking for a relationship. I was visibly disappointed (tears in my eyes), but he still he wants to continue hanging out as friends and asked if I wanted to come over that same night to watch a movie. I didn’t see much of him for a few weeks and the crush went away. Then he got hired at my company so we would see each other at work. I was fine with it at first but then he started to disrespect my boundaries and it ended with us being on very bad terms and me not being able to be around him at all.
Just watching a few videos of yours I have one 'upset': not letting the clips play long enough before stopping it. It helps me as a listener understand what he is saying in context better.
Surprisingly, I agree with some of what Ben said about male female friendships. If you like a girl, it’s best to let your interest be known, rather than prolonging a friendship with the hope that one day you’ll ask her out. Obviously you want to be friends with your partner but intent has to be communicated to avoid confusion and being friend zoned. Going on dates (I don't mean fucking) and doing activities together is a great way to learn about each other and is an example of building a friendship while at the same time as declaring some level of romantic intent. Being friends then taking the friendship to the next level is sweet in theory but it may not always work practically. Most times it’s only one party who has romantic interests while the other party is oblivious to such interest which then creates awkward situations but when it works out, its beautiful. If you ask your friend out, and she says no why would you want to stay in that friendship when deep down you want to pursue something more? It would be mental and emotional torture . When you're in a healthier mental state you could potentially resume the friendship, but moving on from her as a friend shouldn't be seen as toxic. She said no, don't try to change her mind life moves on without her. It’s not that all women exists only for men's romantic conquests, but as a straight male it’s been my experience that male-female friendships can quickly become complicated because of feelings (even perceived feelings). So I think it is important to set boundaries to avoid inappropriate situations (especially if you have a partner) and communicate your feelings where necessary. Also, male-female friendships are not 100% doomed to be complicated. You wont be attracted to all your friends. Sometimes friends of the opposite gender exists and you have 0 attraction.
*Going on dates (I don't mean fucking) and doing activities together is a great way to learn about each other and is an example of building a friendship while at the same time declaring some level of romantic.* Two friends can go on dates without any romantic intent whatsoever. This is not uncommon. Doing activities together is also just something friends do naturally. *Being friends then taking the friendship to the next level is sweet in theory but it may not always work practically.* No one is saying it always works. Ben is saying it can never work, and the point everyone else is making is that it absolutely can work, and in plenty of instances, it does work. It going wrong one time does not mean it always goes wrong. *Most times, it's only one party who has romantic interests while the other party is oblivious to such interest, which then creates awkward situations...* "Most times"? Are you going to back this up with scientific citations, or are you just spouting nonsense because you want to? *If you ask your friend out, and she says no, why would you want to stay in that friendship when deep down you want to pursue something more?* This is unreasonable. If I want 1 million USD, but instead, you give me 1 thousand USD, I would be happy. Sure, I want something more, deep down, but it is better than 0 USD. If I want you to be in an emotional bond with a person, and the bond they want with me is of a different kind, then, okay, I will be sad it is not exactly what I wanted, but I still get to be friends with them, and since I clearly care about this person, I would rather stay friends than, you know, not interacting with them at all. *It would be mental and emotional torture.* If someone finds it painful to be friends with someone they like, then they need therapy, and frankly, it means they lack the emotional maturity to be in a serious, committed relationship with anyone. And I am not saying this be disparaging. This is genuine health advice. I used to be in that same position during my teenage years. I was told to seek therapy, and I did, and it helped me realize my emotional maturity was lacking, and I needed a lot of growing up to do. I decided to work on myself, and those friendships I used to find painful are no longer painful at all, and I treasure them very much. *When you're in a healthier mental state, you could potentially resume the friendship, but moving from her as a friend shouldn't be seen as toxic.* No one said it is toxic. *She said no, don't try to change her mind, life moves on without her.* Staying friends with your "romantic" interest is not at all the same thing as "trying to change her mind." Pretending the two are the same thing _IS_ toxic.
"Just because someone consents to do something doesn't mean they actually want to do it" 😂 oh Ben Maybe if you tried to make it rain in the Sahara Desert it would be more wanted
The way my uncultured ass had to google "why does ben shapiro wear a little hat?" and JUST KNOW found out about yarmulkes...feeling so dumb right now!!
I saw my partner of almost 2 years as a friend for over a year before we began dating. If we had not been friends, our later relationship would never have developed, as I wasn’t looking for one at the time we met. Ben’s description of the oh-so-terrifying friendzone is so laughable.
When my husband and I met and I was very much in the "I want to be friends right now" camp when he first said hw had feelings for me. This might be because i'm rather demisexual (i did not know this term at the time, of course) but also because when we met, I really did not have many friends. My best friend at college had just dropped out, and i had never managed to really bond with many people i met at college beyond casual acquaintance. So the whole "well i have lots of friends, i don't need another one" statement... oof. My husband, meanwhile, did have a bunch of friends, and when we met i got to know them too. I might've stepped back from dating at first just because i didn't want to potentially wreck up my ability to be friends with all of them if dating him didn't work out (which was probably a false and kind of childish assumption, but that's where my mind was). Lucky for us both we were cool enough to keep chatting long distance for a bit, and after some time i decided that it would be fun to try dating him if he still wanted to, because i really did like him as a person, even if i didn't get immediate sparks-flying romantic and physical attraction. We actually did have very good chemistry and have been together ever since :) we still consider ourselves best friends.
@@lawsattitude1999 It's not made up at all, and actually, I've never heard anyone else mention it. Ben went on a long jag about WAP, and claimed that his wife, who is a doctor, told him that Ps don't get wet upon arousal. Do you also believe Ps don't get wet upon arousal? Becaause if so, I've got some bad news for you: you've never turned a woman on. So again, which part of what I said are you denying happened? If you're one of Ben's incel fans, which make up about 73% of his audience, just let me know and I'll leave you alone so I don't further hurt your feelings.
@@lawsattitude1999Unfortunately this isn’t made up, it’s the logical next step from Ben Shapiro’s claims his wife has stated that the vagina shouldn’t get wet, which as a medical doctor, she probably knows that most vaginas naturally lubricate as part of arousal.
one thing I will agree on is that having too big friend circles is draining. there are different types of friend circles, work space friends.. neighborhood friends. traveling friends... Other problem are "nice guys" they might go out of their way to help in hopes of relationship and then feel used or unappreciated. They need to set boundaries for themselves as well.
