Bad Balance: SF4 Vanilla Vega 

3:58 >low jab, which is unplinkable unless you plink with the select button What?

someone at capcom got their shit rocked by sf2 claw and said "you know what"

The stock flame effect on the full ultra meter is so hilariously distracting lol

Basically claw only struggles in two specific situations: when your opponent is attacking him or when he is not.

"but baf that seems like a really good anti air" sf5 vega in a nutshell

The overhead that didnt hit overhead had me and my fgc crew dying laughing when this game came out. Literal incomplete moveset.

Somebody had it out for this character at the start

Lucky for me, I was so bad back in Vanilla that I don't think I even realized how bad Vega was

The sound design on the super at 13:16 cracks me up. *thump. thump. thump.*

So he had no anti-airs, no invincible super, and couldn't convert his claw attacks in neutral into special moves. Sounds like SF5 Vega to me.

As a SFV Vega main I thought that season 3/3.5 was the absolute rock bottom for the character. Thanks for proving me wrong lol

Oh man so many things where left out. But my personal favorite was The DP shortcut. Since getting rid of the claw was a DP motion, the DP shortcut would randomly make you chuck his claw off. If anyone fought a Vanilla Vega and see them toss the claw only to immediately pick it back up, thats why. In Super hes one of the few, if not only charecter to not have the DP shortcut motion.

I think Capcom was scared of creating a new ST or CVS2 Vega again by accident

can we expect more vids like this or another vanilla sagat vid? I absolutely love showcases of questionable design in old-ish fighting games and I can't think of anybody other than you or TMM that makes those kinds of videos

As a Deejay main, it's weird to hear that there was once a worse character in SF4 Of course this was only during a time where Deejay didn't exist yet

Honestly, I'd be down if you were to make a series looking at questionable fighting game character decisions.

Really interesting and cool video! I would actually like more of these kind of video's where you talk about a character in Street Fighter in a specific version of the game. I personally think that it is really interesting to hear/know why a character was good or bad in a specific version of a game. My next suggestion for a video like this, that I would be really interested in, would be to hear "Why was E.Honda so good in Super Street Fighter IV"? I always hear that Honda was really good in Super, but I never hear or knew why? That would be pretty interesting to know.

I mained vega throughout sf4's life. I'm glad he got significantly better, but it was satisfying getting wins with him in vanilla. Landing an ultra was a pain, but I usually just tried to bait fireballs max distance with a backflip into ultra. You'd be surprised how often it worked.

I was literally thinking about all this shit last night and now this...thank you bafael...i've been a vega main since sf2: ce/cvs1 and many of design aspects of battle were very strange in sf4 with vega being no exception...as indicated in this video among other things, the struggle was real with this character

This was legit part of what killed my interest in SFIV back in the day. They freaking massacred my boi

3:10 _his LP Shoryuken is -21_ *Vega proceeds to miss the mark entirely* it was at this moment I did the Jonah Jameson laugh asked if you're serious and didn't even watch the rest just peace out

As a diehard SF4 vega main I appreciate this

As a Vega main this was hurtful and thank god he’s mid tier in Ultra and Omega

Never understood the mask and claw thing Punish a character that is already losing by making him worse I understand losing the mask, but purely as a cosmetic thing, with the whole beauty angle the character has

SFV vega main here to watch the old glorious time when Vega has scarlet terror as anti-air.... Wait... what?

Thank you so much for this. Vega is still the only character in SFV without an invincible reversal because his super isn't even invincible and his V-reversals are garbage in most situations, yet people try to say he's not bad... He's way better than this, but he still struggles a lot because if how unique his kit is.

Vega making 3rd strike Sean look good 💀

Great video man! I forgot how bad Vega was in vanilla SF4. He's always been my favorite character and I remember STRUGGLING online, especially against Blanka and Gief. I really hope he makes it back to SF6 with a glowup. That would be godlike.

I also chose to main vanilla Vega over Cammy. I think I had a brain disease.

Claw saved Boxer from the dumpster but forgot to get out himself. He still hasn't found his way out.

I haven't played street fighter much, but a few things mentioned in this video happened to me when I was playing trying to get into Street Fighter again. I just assumed it was either bugs, or assumed it was "The character is supposed to be tricky to play... So not being able to hit this must be part of game balance right?". Nice to know that it was something actually up with the character. Especially since I was trying out other character's combos and such and had a massively easier time trying to play them, even though Vega was the only one I wanted to main at the time. I don't think I had the mindset for a fighting game at the time, but that sure didn't help at all when the character you are worst at is the one you want to play the most and put the most time into.

Btw, this was definitely a fascinating watch. Hopefully we can see more in-depth character dissections like this that explain what makes them truly good or truly bad. One particular character I'm curious about is Ultra Dee Jay. Outside of maybe a short video on this channel and a reddit post or two, I've never seen a full demonstration on why he's universally regarded worse than Dan.

Suggestion: I think you should have grouped all of the AE/Ultra stuff together and gave them their own section. When you're talking about how a move only has certain combo options but clarify that there are more in later versions, it can be tough to keep it straight in my head what was true in which version. I feel like I explained that poorly but hope you get the gist. Love the series mate.

Damn man this brought me life. Vanilla vega main here, he was garbage. Never thought is see someone bring it to light.

SFIV Vanilla was the game that introduced me to the series, so it's very nostalgic to me.

Stellar video, Baf. I love stuff like this and you cut it perfectly.

someone at capcom: "what if we punished players for doing combos by making their moves suck ass in combos?" and links were born

sf4 was my first fighting game ever and I mained Vega. It's a miracle I didn't drop the game

I keep coming back to this just to see "But Baf, that looks it might be a really good anti-air!" followed by Vega cr.HP losing or trading to multiple jump-ins

I love these bad balance videos.

Remember when Capcom put Vega in SFV and them removed him from the game for the next 3 years?

The most fun I had with Vega was neutral throw into crossup U1. Otherwise it was his 4 hit slash super. I appreciated this video. You get a glimpse of both design and strategy behind a character.

Man watching this makes me miss playing USF4. That game was so much fun. Vega was one of my side mains

I love these videos! I’ll always show up 4 1 of these.

Yeah I remember. Coming from CvS2, I were super excited to try out Vega when vanilla launched. Played for a few days and dropped him for Viper.

When you said you were planning on covering Vanilla Sagat, Akuma and Seth, I was excited about the former and highly curious about the latter two.

The dev who programmed Vega must have lost to Takito in Super Turbo a bunch.

I hope you get to make more content like this. Keep up the good work.

I swear I heard that they made vanilla Vega bad on purpose cause in early internal or location tests he was insanely powerful so they overnerfed him at the 11th hour

My favourite was normal Sky High Claw being unsafe ON HIT. Ryu could punish it with Metsu Hadouken after getting hit.

In vanilla, one of his best tools was focus attack - it was his best answer to fireball since u can’t throw normal fireballs at him at the longer than normal range where his claw hits u. He could stun and combo from that counter, plus it also built ultra meter. Focus was also a good defensive option for him without his invincibility - u could do level one and let it counter hit and crumple attacking opponents who mistimed their attacks, or focus back-dash to escape since his focus back-dash is quite fast on recovery

I remember watching nlbc all the time and there was a few month streak where it was Smug vs Zues who was a godlike Vega player in grand finals every time. I miss those days.

Very informative and interesting, and I never even played vega in sf4

Dang subscribe button made me realize I never had the notification bell on

"You don't want your only answer to fireballs be the universal answer of jumping" ken sfV

As a Vega main, this makes me happy.

15+ minute Baf SF4 is max comfy

haha... He was still my main in Vanilla. When Super rolled around just making EX Flying Barcelona hit on the way up made a world of difference.

6:04 vega gets gombo on sagat, sagat bottom tier confirmed

Feels like an incomplete Melee character.

I don’t wanna hear SFV Vega mains ever complain again.

As someone whose favorite character in sf2 Turbo being Vega bro got done mad dirty

tfw the dwarf freddie kreuger Vega from king of fighters makes vega look like a chump

Vega was so good in old games he had to be nerfed forever

>No invincibility wow can't believe capcom made the same mistake twice. Seriously as a vega main i just hope sf6 has a good vega on first release

This video was hilarious

SF4: 1Fs everywhere SF5: Easy combos with no variance or conversion potential *Shrug.*

Vega does have amazing throw range, one of the best in the cast iirc

1:16 oh wow a overhead looking kick that’s not an overhead capcom fixed this but still left sfv Juri with the same move

That flame is egregious

Please do more like this!

1 frame links, I shudder at the memories.

Surprised you didnt make more of these, would make you some money.

man. i was a vega main and sf4 was my first fighting game.

This shit has retriggered me. I forgot about some of these. Makes the low tier than vega is in SFV seem GODLIKE in comparison

Unplinkable, unconfirmable, unsafe

15:05 I somehow laughed harder than I should have

Yeah lol Vega was my main. Fun to play with but very limited. I used ultra 1 vs regular projectiles which is good when you fet it down and for anti air you basically have to use air throw

But B a f, that might be a r e a l l y good anti-air. > shows Vega getting kicked because Crouch Fierce is ass

Wow claw was buns

Vega is literally one of my favorite characters in Street fighter so like at one point I was going to play him in Street fighter 4 anyway.

Well I'm just glad they gave him a massive upgrade in Street Fighter 5- oh wait.

12:15 >spends 2 bars to take off a fucking mask vega REALLY wants to be beautiful, huh?

I have a video of me landing ex mask remove into Ultra 2 in Tournament from back in the day. My favourite "combo" :)

This is sad. But 13:59 cheered me up 😎

LETS FUCKING GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I can say that i lived through the Vanilla Vega vs Vanilla Sagat matchup

He had his super that can work in the corner but it was an extremely tight link. May be after scarlet terror and then use with his super attack rather than grab. He sort of didn't do bad after red focus was introduced. He then had a good amount of options to land his ult. He was good in spacing. But I got blown up as I am not here in full to do more options and be more aggressive. Am sort of limited. But he wasn't that bad of a character once you master him a bit and really nail his mechanics on getting some good potential towards combo links. I guess that is it tbh. You also need to be good at defense. He doesn't really have a get off of me option. Besides maybe ult 2. Not sure as I don't remember. So 50/50s and mix ups is a thing. But still not bad overall even though it sort of sounds like he is bad. But that is of course the later variant he was viable. But not the strongest character pick. Still viable. 👍 It is just my opinion and people may have different ones.

You see, we made Vega bad. As a joke!

THAT DAMAGE

I actually can agree. Was just used to what he is able to do and roled with it. But you are right. I found a lot of stuff he wasn't able to do. But rocked out what he was able to do. Poor Vega. But also a fact. 😭 Edit: But I actually gotten pretty good with him over time. Not the best Vega and I could still use practice with my brain at full. But I still wasn't bad. 😋

This video needs a content warning It was horrifying to watch

Awesome video, I was wondering if you had this after I stumbled on your AE Yun vid. Only thing I would really add is just how awful the wall glitch was. It was so bad that while you could plan your punishes / combos into EX FBA (c mk c lp xx EX FBA in particular) to hit even if they were crouching (iirc it worked even in vanilla), you were then rolling the dice, and not just to finish your combo, but to NOT GET PUNISHED ON HIT… I remember hitting Sagat with a clean EX FBA and wall glitch occurred. I tried to finish the combo but could not make it to Sagat in time and landed in front of him bouncing around for 40 frames. He quick rose and I ate a full unscaled ultra… and I was the one who hit HIM. That was truly the moment that in spite of me saying “Vega is good guise” made me think “Yeah this character is trash” lmfao. Love the vid Edit: also watching again, EX ST is not quite the same as HK ST, it is also fireball invincible. Ya you can’t use it in neutral really but it shuts down fireball pressure strings if you read them.

This was back when I didnt understand frame data.

Zues best sf4 claw

Pie Zeus was the king of those Vega links

Vega did have those awful, awful backflips with Px3 or Kx3 which were also his "answers" to fireball pressure. If the answer you were looking for involved zoning yourself out even more by moving backwards.

Me playing sf4 without update for years: wait he wasn’t supposed to be broken?

Totally agree! The best balanced Vega was at SF II Turbo edition 1994.

You should do a bad balance vid for MvC2.