Because that would be too much like the original, which the English wanted to get as far away from as possible because anything Japanese is apparently weeb content.
I know. In the classic series Vergil did not conduct ambushes. Every time he fought Dante he announced his presence and made him fully aware of his intention to start a fight. Even Arkahm, Vergil had the decency to kill him face to face rather than backstab him. Hell, even when corrupted by Mundus Vergil led Dante out into the courtyard rather than fighting in that cramped room. The writers at Ninja Theory really had no idea what kind of person Vergil was, otherwise they wouldn't have written this scene the way it is.
@@rustledentity5511 classic vergil would have been grateful dante brought him lilith and would have cut her head off the moment he finished congratulating dante. he wouldn't have engaged in a hostage exchange or gone back on his word, period.
Where did this Vergil is honorable thing come from? He's just a power hungry weeb. Did everyone forget that the first thing he does when he sees his son for the first time is rip his arm off?
AND THERES THE SCENE Vergil, A character who originally goes on his quest for power after losing his mother, murders a pregnant woman by shooting her in the stomach first. Jesus christ
in my poit of view he just killed two demons. and two important ones. isn't that the whole point of the game? i mean....the story of this game is shit, i agree. but my only problem with this scene is Virgil using a rifle like weak human instead of just doing a judgement cut on that bitch and her stupid ugly ass baby
@@junior1388666 Vergil was always about honor, but fuck that, let's give him a sniper rifle and have him randomly kill a baby FIRST and his mother afterwards because "he had to".
+VergilHilts think he killed the baby first cause it was his main concern. he's planing on ruling the world and the last thing he needs is the mundus' heir getting in his way with revenge, or whatever. and if he killed lilith first the baby could survive....maybe? dont know, man. all i know is that Virgil would do anything for power. even willing to kill his own brother. so why would he give two fucks about a evil baby? "is sanity the price to pay for POWER?" Virgil would say "Yes....scum"
@@junior1388666 He always had a code of honor. He was proud because of who his father was, and he would never ambush an opponent, let alone shoot him/it in the back with a GUN, something Vergil was always strictly against. Because he sees guns as a dishonorable way to fight, utilizing a simple to use mechanism someone built to "cheat" rather than using pure skill and the power within yourself, the way of a true warrior. Therefore, this is a direct opposite of Vergil from the original games. He only tries Dante's way with guns once at the end of DMC3, to finish off Arkham with a single shot, and only because Arkham knocked one of the guns out of Dante's hand, which Vergil happened to catch. It's not about the baby, it's about the way Vergin dealt with it.
I guess they had no better way to show that Vergil is evil and should not be trusted. Well, other than his callous treatment of the Order during the swat raid.
No, Vergil says in the last scene that it was meant to get Mundus act impulsively and spend the Hellgate for the time being. Whether any of this was mentioned prior I can't remember though. It was also apparently the added scene, so originally yes, total nonsense lol.
@@flightlessagbsls My question is why would Mundus care? There's plenty of other demon ladies he could and probably has fucked by now. Why can't he just try this again and make another baby.
@@flightlessagbsls WHY would Mundus act impulsively? Two damn lines before the child is even brought up, Phineas says Mundus is incapable of loving! Why does Lilith care about the baby? She only cares because Mundus cares! There's no rhyme or reason to this whole plot thread beyond causing a schism between Donte and Vergin, just like there's no logic to the Kat stuff. It's all so poorly written. I refuse to be even shocked by this travesty!
Mundas' monologuing really undercuts the emotional impact the game is trying to sell. Instead of "You don't fuck with a god," he should've been "MY BOY!" And from that point on, he should go into an unstoppable rage whenever he sees Dante, who basically acquired Litlith for her execution. How much better would it have been if my his boss fight, he was all, "My son's blood is on your hands." Instead, it's back to the god stuff and how so much better he is than Dante. I know they wanted to remind you that he was the bad guy, but by this point, the stakes should've been more personal. These two have been a thorn in his side, sure, but now they hit him where it hurts and he hates himself for allowing them to make it this far. He should no longer care about the titles, the history, the bloodlines, the only thing that matters is what they did to him here and now. The way he is now, it doesn't feel like he cared about his son that much at all. The monologuing devolves Mundas back to any other villain, no more important than Bob Barbus even. There is practically no difference between them other than aesthetics and the artificial importance the plot insists upon. Mundas had every opportunity to be written as a better character by this point in the story, but the game chose not to. Even without the controversy, this game would've been torn apart for it's legitimate story problems.
@@nathanielbaldevino5364 I'm not saying it's out of character for this version of Mundus to act like this from what we've seen of him, I'm saying I think it was a bad creative decision to keep him a stagnant character when a catalyst for change was right there.
If that’s the case, why does Muundus ask Dante why did he kill his child in a saddened tone of voice? If his child is just a tool, why does he suddenly need to understand why Dante killed his child? Also, he gets furious when Dante makes fun of his child’s death. Obviously, Muundus cares.
@@jman2856 He doesn't care enough, though. At any rate, what difference does it make when he's so easily taken care of, both in canon and gameplay terms? They don't even seal him off like in the first game, he just gets killed because he's weak enough.
"No, Dante, I said 'Puuran Buii'. I prefer Japanese loan words. It's such an elegant language; the things you don't say carry so much more weight than what you do say. Like when I decided to yeetus the fetus without telling you. Elegance, Dante. Elegance."
Knew it casually when DmC released, of course knew a chunk of the voice cast, but up until 5's announcement, I pulled that DT, and woke up to justice! (Wait "watched", that sounds like in past tense, how'd I lose you lol)
Love how they added in a scene in DE for Dante to yell at Vergil for killing Lilith, but have Dante care less about killing an unarmed pregnant woman and more about how it pissed off Mundus. What a goddamn hero.
@@nerdyvids1 That is the bigger problem, but if they were going to add in an scene for it, why did they just make Dante mad for both reasons? Especially since Dante stops trusting Vergil around this point anyways.
This wasn't just some random, normal lady. Donte just has a full battle with this pregnant woman and her "baby". He really had no reason to care about her death, so must as the deaths of innocent people.
@@ligtningdog6399 I can see him caring more for the city, but in the previous mission he does tell Lilith that he isn't going to kill her after beating her. While he probably was just telling her that so she wouldn't freak out, it came off to me that Dante didn't see her as a threat at that point or hate her.
If you look at the notes for when they released the Definitive Edition, they actually refer to this scene as a way to explain why Kat knew about the layout of Mundus' fortress. That's what they thought the problem that needed fixing was. Not Vergil assassinating a pregnant woman and killing her child before putting her out of her misery, but "How did Kat know how to navigate the tower." That's why that scene is so half-assed: Vergil defending his actions isn't supposed to be the point of it. Problem is, Vergil assassinating a pregnant woman is SO FUCKING OUT OF CHARACTER, that it's all we really care about right now.
Yeah it doesn't help Mundus' character that he's constantly talking down to Dante and calling him a piece of shit that he could crush easily, when the start of the game establishes he doesn't feel secure in his power and won't until he's killed Dante. Bit of disconnect there.
I give this game 10 dead babies out of 10, would snipe again. If only those damn fanboys wouldn't be so obsessed with how this compares to the rest of the series, this game would be perfect because it has absolutely no glaring flaws at all, whatsoever, in any way, shape, or form that people would also hate completely. *insert gunshot* NOPE, NO WRITING PROBLEMS HERE AT ALL, ALL 100% PERFECTLY GREAT A-TIER ACTION GAME MATERIAL!!!
Remember guys, Stronk Wahmen in this game being traded like poker chips, beaten and shot at, unlike the original DMC and those "prostitutes with guns".
@@Dasaltwarrior They wanted Kat to look like your girlfriend, AKA a literal waifu. So to NT your girlfriend has Squirrel semen all over her fingers constantly, seems to be cracked out most of the time, and needs to be yelled at to think of solutions to problems. Strong Female character everyone, her only purpose in the story is to be literally used as a tool the whole time with ZERO development for here outside being used for Dantes development.
Now that you mentioned it, I am impressed that they were able to make a story that has one of the main characters raped as a kid, and have me literally forget about it seconds after it was mentioned for years till I saw the cutscene again. Kat really is the most impressionable heroine DMC's ever had. Lady aint got shit on this.
But wait! Kat is helping with the final plan! She got shot, beaten and captured, where she was taken to get tortured some more and than was pathetically rescued by the duo, BUT she learned the layout of Mundus' lair! Now she can just do voice over and draw some arrows! She won't be there at all or really do anything! Isn't that amazing and strong! Oh and pay no mind to the fact she is still probably limping and bleeding to death through the whole thing.
Oh my god! All this time I thought the "V" in front of the car in the intro was some snarky reference to DMC5. like "we gotta drive through this crap first before we get to 5 next year.". I COMPLETELY wiped the Vergil Mobile from my memory. I can't fucking believe it. Again.
Vergil "if they cry then they're gonna fry" Sparda (using that as a last name for this joke). Vergil "pound them in the womb, before they cause the Earth's doom" Sparda.
For real can we take a moment to really look at how this game completely neutered two of the coolest characters in the franchise just to push Donte? Sparda was this legendary badass that you only really ever heard about in the original series but even then you could feel how powerful and demanding of respect he was even if he wasn’t around. Here? He’s practically nothing but a guy who ran off cause he banged a chick his bro didn’t like. Vergil was this tragic figure obsessed with power who held himself as a cool collected and powerful swordsman while having an honorable and prideful standard. Here? He’s a wimp who needs his brother to fight most of his battles for him and shoots babies.
I wouldn't even say it was to push Donte. Remove their names and all you have are generic "dead" parent, and morality grey/corrupted "ally". They're only called Sparda and Vergil, for the same reasons that Donte's DT gives him red jacket. Because "we wanted this to be more like original series"
Ah yes, Vergil and his well known weapon, the Angelic Sniper Rifle used to erase demon babies and his sick ride, The Vergilmobile. I can't believe people like that other guy that acts like a weeb and has a nasally nerd voice, this is the *TRUE VERGIL.*
If Dante slashed and hacked at the demon baby and it didn't die, but Vergil just shot it and killed it along with it's mother, does that mean Vergil has demon bullet powers to go along with his Vergil DMR?
Speaking of Japanese weapon, I have wondered for a long time what Yamato's design means lore wise. The sword is presumably two thousand years old (or roughly so), and yet I'm pretty sure katanas didn't exist back then. Is that meant to imply that Japan got the idea for the katana from Sparda's yamato? Or was it something Sparda picked up from ancient Japan, and was presumably lost to time until they rediscovered it centuries later? Just curious what any of you think on the subject.
@@rustledentity5511 In terms of lore? Dunno. But in terms of symbolism, the name "Yamato" and its design is meant to convey the idea of order and tradition. This is in contrast to Dante's sword, Rebellion.
@@rustledentity5511 Maybe the name of the sword refers to the old Japanese tale of the eight headed serpent Orochi. There is a blade that coming forth of one of its tail, which at some point wielded by a man named Yamato Takeru to control wind. But the blade was not even thousand years old, it was just about 15 years old. And the idea of creating it was not coming from Sparda's time, it was from Hideki Kamiya's time in Capcom.
So I had an idea on how to fix this game's story and make it interesting. When Sparda (a demon knight who turned against his own kind and married an angel, living with her on earth and fighting for humanity) and his wife Eva (Angel who similarly abandoned heaven to live on Earth) are found by the demon assassins, Eva grabs the boys and runs while Sparda stays to fight the demons, Dante gets separated and somehow escapes but is lost. Eva and Vergil are cornered by an assassin demon and Eva is slain but as she dies, Vergil absorbs her power, which causes his previously black hair to become white with power, but makes him easier to track because his power is detectable while Dante is below the radar but still strong. This explains why Vergil is in hiding. Sparda is captured and chained, and is kept in Mundus' personal chambers a trophy of his triumph and superiority. He's also possibly being used as a battery of power? (Depends on whether you want to paint Mundus as a leech of power, the cause for his world dominating power?). Then the game proceeds as normal. Dante is who he is and at the end when he kills Mundus, he frees his father who is emaciated but proud of his son, he dies in his son's arms, Dante absorbs his pwoer and his hair becomes white, and he absorbs his father as a Devil Arm, the sword Sparda. Instead we got this.
And props taken away for being unable to stop Kat exploring his secret lair in limbo, while she's tortured by demons, who literally live in limbo. How the fuck does anything about her exploring the tower make any fucking sense? The whole "she escapes trauma by escaping with her spirit into limbo" only makes sense when the trauma is being caused by humans.
@@datonkallandor8687 Here's the thing though. The trauma in her backstory was also caused by demons, not humans. So, is her astral projection just invisible when she's on Limbo?
In fairness, that wasn't added to his character until DMC3. In one of the DMC novels Vergil was seen using a shotgun. It's canon to his character now, but wasn't the original intention. Vergil is obviously a Sparda fanboy, so it makes sense that he's so obsessed with obtaining mastery over swords. It'd be hilarious if in a Sparda prequel we saw Sparda use ancient guns that existed thanks to advanced demon technology, just to show how little Vergil actually knows about his dad.
Ok my problem isn't that Vergil killed the kid. Hell Dante was beating it to death 3 minutes ago. My problem is that Vergil would not shoot them, he would summon sword her through the gut, teleport beside her, then decapitate her with Yamato. Hell how did they die from these bullet shots anyway. Thats a normal ass gun as far as I know.
kruaser123 I also had a problem with that. Didn't Dante unload like a few dozen bullets into both of them a few hours ago? Does the higher caliber really change that much?
It raises a lot of questions. Are demons just normal people outside of Limbo? Could Vergil feasibly snipe Mundus if he found a high enough building nearby? The amount of holes in this world is staggering
I mean virgin blasted that fetus with his abortion gun because he is still pretending to be human. Like Mundus doesn't know yet that he's also nephilim
Let me remind you that Mr. 50. cal coat hanger virgin mobile dude over here, in the original series (not reboot) found guns to be so ugly and unappealing that he literally conjures crystal magic swords and chucks them at people in order to attack from range
You know to be honest I'm down with the Vergilmobile. That's the kind of schlock I want from this series. I want it to return in 5. I want there to be a Vergil boss fight but instead of a fight it's just a car chase between the Vergilmobile and the DMC van.
3:21 Mm, watcha say? Mm, that you only meant well? Well, of course you did Mmm, whatcha say? Mmm, that it's all for the be- 3:34 Mm, watcha say? Mm, that you only meant well?
I personally find killing a fetus and subsequently it's mother during a hostage exchange for a woman you were fine with leaving to die an admirable trait for the leader of the group that's suppose to be the good guys and save humanity and shit.
About the time slow being localized to Dante. In limbo pretty much every character has shown the ability to "influence" the world around them. Dante's DT is pretty much a repackaged quicksilver so his domain of influence may more closely related to time. Thats my best guess.
Okay here's something I don't get, Katt said don't get off on floor 105 get off on floor 106. Donte got off on 105. Her next instructions were to go up 1 floor, to 107, but cause Donte got off early he's on 106. So he's an entire floor behind on her instructions and it doesn't change anything?
You know, I think I've finally figured out what pisses me off the most about this game. The fact that its themes and purpose are so antithetical to one another. The game has an obvious anti-capitalist bent to its story (what with the demon king controlling the world through debt) but the whole reason this game exists is because Devil May Cry 4 (in spite of being the best selling entry in the series) didn't pull CoD numbers. This game rails against corporate greed while owing its entire existence to a corporation's greed not being satisfied!
2:44 *"There's something about being a parent that it doesn't matter which side you're on."* But see the problem here is that Lilith made it VERY CLEAR earlier that she doesn't care about the baby she's carrying, stating "I'm nothing to Mundus without this BRAT", therefore there is no reason for me to feel bad for her despite Lilith being a parent.
@@Corrector1 Can you give an example of demons being crass outside of this game? Not trying to be rude, but I'm trying to think of a crass demon with someone else right now and can't think of one. Aren't demons usually polite, since they are trying to entice you or are so powerful that they are above that attitude? Edit:Found one.The Violater from Spawn
Welp. Its time. The worst character assassination in the game. Vergin couldn't be possibly more unlike Vergil after this. I can't believe there are people who like him as a character in this game.
DarkKnightGrave you know what’s the worst part also? Not just what he did, but for the fact they made a scene trying to JUSTIFY what he did in the definitive edition, WHAT THE FUCKING HOLY HELL!
So how come Dante can do all this shit to the real world to save Vergil, but he can't do any of this to slow down the SWAT teams? Is it cause Kat had to be in Limbo? Couldn't we have just dragged her into Limbo to get out then?
Because Dante isn't in Limbo for that mission I guess? Like Mundus probably lost control of his powers, namely the one that allows him to drag Dante into Limbo, and the line between it and the real world got a bit blurred so the two could interact with each other, which is why the city gets destroyed for real. Kinda like how killing Mundus at the end of the game kind of just gets rid of Limbo altogether and demons can just waltz into the real world.
I'm pretty sure the game says Vergil doesn't do anything because Mundus thinks Dante is the only Nephilim. Dante has also been fighting his whole life while Vergil got adopted by some rich family and didn't have to do anything. Dante is also an idiot because he didn't go to school. He ran away from the orphanage.
Dire Miralis it’s still dumb how mundus can’t tell that two people with the same face are twins. After Vergil’s face was released on the news he had no reason to keep hiding his identity other than the writers making mundus unreasonably stupid.
Vergin: "I call this operation 'Mission Abort'. What do you think, Dante?" Donte: "Why that name?" Vergin: "No reason." [Totally not creepy, sinister grin]
6:40 At this point, Vergil doesn't WANT to show himself. Vergil in the whole car chase sequence is in the real world. Dante keeps getting pulled into Limbo every time demons show up nearby. That's what happens to him all the time. The game literally started with this explanation. Everytime he kills the petty demons he gets back out of limbo, which is when everything is at normal speed. It's happened quite a lot in limbo where shit is floating around and not moving or moving (or even simply EXISTING) unnaturally. The time stop thing is the least confusing of them. They need to lure Mundus away from his office... because there's a giant portal right next to him to Hell which he gets his power from. Vergil is using Dante's presence as a SOS to piss off Mundus. It's also why he shot the babby because he's willing to sacrifice as many people as needed to defeat Mundus. The logic is sound, but nobody wants to look at it or even remember it. Why am I the one trying to defend the story of this game which I don't really like either... wtf.
Except by this point in the game Vergil's face was on the news and Mundus wiped both his and Dante's memories so how does Mundus not know about Vergil's existence?
@@hibarikyoya854 Mundus didn't wipe their memories. Their memories were wiped before that so they wouldn't accidentally reveal themselves as children. They need time to grow into full nepheline so they were hidden away.
@@CRAZEH247 oh shit you're right I totally forgot that my bad. But the problem of Mundus having Vergil's picture and somehow not seeing he is identical to Dante still remains. Him sneaking around so he doesn't get dragged into limbo makes sense cause he won't have access to the computers the problem is the whole game they show him incapable of combat even in scenarios were it would have been safe to use his powers but in the end he is on par with Dante.
@@hibarikyoya854 oh don't get me wrong there's plenty of issues with the story. The only way I can defend not seeing the pictures is that he only went after Eva himself. The rest was his demon army to destroy their home. Dante found the family picture by chance if I recall and he kinda stumbles upon it. I imagine if Mundus lost his shit when he found out that Sparda being a demon brother went and married an angel then just went on a rampage of destruction of whoever his army could find in the mansion. We already saw him lose his shit and destroy the whole city without thinking twice. So it could be plausible. I think I remember reading somewhere about how Dante was thrown into a shithole to help him grow stronger, because he was the softer of the brothers. Whilst Vergil showed he was already good with using his Nephilim powers so he went to a human family to grow a heart. I can't remember where I read about this though.
@@CRAZEH247 I don't know about any of that might have been in a novel like according to someone their was one showing Vergil in love with Kat but then he erased that specific memory so who knows at this point
The biggest thing that makes the original Mundus and breaks this Mundus is their portrayal. In DMC1 Mundus was just a generic demon king sure, but the way he was framed gave you the sense that he was a huge threat. All the demons talk about how despite how powerful Dante is he’s nothing compared to Mundus, to give a specific example just look at anytime Dante and Griffon interact. On top of that the first room of the castle shows a giant statue of Mundus that disappeared when you returned and certain camera angels almost felt like you were seeing Dante from the emperor of darkness’ perspective. Finally there’s the matter of what Mundus himself does in the game. He orders his demons who follow him to a T and even kills Griffon himself for being too weak and unworthy to serve him. When you finally got to Mundus he was this massive angelic statue in a holy cathedral, and he than summons himself and Dante to a realm where they would fight, and he was a very challenging boss. Basically Mundus in DMC1 was portrayed as being a powerful threat that you need to be at your best to even hope to take on. In DmC Mundus is portrayed as being the big bad of the game but we have too many scenes of him losing his cool when his minions fail. He’s set up as a major threat but every scene shows him as being nothing more than an edgy businessman with the temperament of the original Cobra Commander. His forms in the game are essentially businessman and blob, none of which present him as being anything that would be even remotely powerful as the final boss, and his actual boss fight is so easy you’d be forgiven for thinking he was about to reveal that there’s still a few more hours of game time to deal with the real threat. He’s the villain of a children’s cartoon but played straight and it only serves to make him seem like one of the least threatening villains ever.
I'm glad Ninja Theory saved us by writing strong female characters. Thank you Tameem. Also are you telling me that in the original game, they go straight from abortion rifle getaway to "okay we're infiltrating the tower yeh!"? How fucking tone deaf and awful can a team be?
So....... Mundus couldn't of just you know.... Have another child with another demon women? Like, you've lived for thousands of years, I'm sure you could wait an extra 9 months........
Stupid thing 12: the absurdity of the hostage trade/getaway segment. Forgetting for a moment the sheer stupidity of Vergil's abortinator rifle and custom Vergil mobile car, it is ridiculous that the SWAT team didn't manage to kill Kat in that crossfire. Limbo breaking its established rules of only warping its own space and slowing time in potions of it because -the plot demands tension- Mundus got angry enough to take things seriously is even more insulting, as it's a contrived action-setpiece that's only there to forcefully ramp up tension. Worst level in the game IMO.
I hate to insert some kind of logic to make the time slow make sense, but what if it's Vergil using his DT? Donte slows time around him and suspend enemies in mid air, Vergil could be popping DT and slowing local time for the car while he waits for Donte to move the obstacles.
The reason Vergil doesn't get out of his car and do all kinds of demonic flippy shit is because they make a huge deal about how the way they're going to beat Mundus is through Vergil's nephilim powers and what have you being a big secret. It's why they send Dante, a known quantity for everyone involved, to do all the dirty work on missions as well. It's not 100% air tight, but that's the explanation.
Vergil was pretty clear about that, and it was stated again shortly before the exchange. Mundus is not aware that Vergil is also a Son of Sparda. And he wanted to keep that secret until the last possible moment so that Mundus won't be prepared to fight both brothers
The gameplay is super fun, and I hope that that part of it gets a sequel (hopefully in the form of its own independent series not part of DMC) but the rest of the game boarders between average at best and bad.
Parts of it are good. If only Vergil could have sniped the lead writer when he was still a demon fetus. So many have suffered. BUT THAT'S MY CROSS TO BEAR. YOU KNOW LIKE WITH JESUS
For some reason Pat assumes you need to charge round trip to use it. You don't you can just shoot em out right quick charging just makes it bigger so Pat's really just making things harder for himself. Also I think they come with round trip as it's the circle command so the tip is perfectly fine. Also still at session 3 complaining about a devil trigger they didn't need to have. They chose to have that despite disliking it even at like session 3 here. Also also Pat will never know Shredder is a move.
Good ol' Virgo and his trusty steed, the Feter-Deleter. Yo, Dreamrunner is a sick ass enemy name. And that "written plan" environment design is really good. It's like you're executing the steps of a plan that was made as you play.
