Blame Zeus | Overly Sarcastic Production, Hades and Persephone Reaction 

On the merriage of Hera and Zeus thing: somehow worse than the ironic karma idea you were assuming! After Zeus did a Zeus to Hera, he victim blamed her into inventing marriage

Nope, Zeus wanted Hera as his wife she kept refusing him, so he decided he needed to do his normal Zeus thing. He caused a storm to happen outside of her bed chambers and then truned into a small little bird and pretended to be hurt from the winds knowing Hera loved birds. When Hera heard the birds crys she came out to check and found him she then took the bird back into the bedroom to nurse the brid and held it close to her. Zeus then stuck by transforming into his ture form, overpowering her and having his way. Hera was left humiliated and shamed not only because of what Zeus did but also because this meant she the goddess of marriage had sex outside of being married so to "restore her honour" she was basically froced to marry Zeus who then started cheating on her from day one. It kind of makes sense why she comes across as crazy now

Supposedly the only Greek god who explicitly never forced himself on anyone was Ares, until the Romans merged him with Mars anyway. Which sounds odd to us because Ares represented all the horrible things about war and that's definitely something we recognize as horrible.

One thing that I find interesting about these two is that Hades is chill but Persephone is apparently TERRIFYING, and yet our pop culture understanding often flips those roles

I think you are severely underestimating how old Mycenaean Greece was. It predated scrolls in that area by a LOT. The chances that there was EVER a scroll with the original version of any Mycenaean myths is vanishingly slim, let alone the chance that such a scroll would have survived to the present in any condition. The scrolls you're thinking of, that were recently read using modern techniques, are from Roman Pompeii & Herculaneum, some 1500-ish years later than the Mycenaean civilization.

On Persephone, yeah, many thought she was a Goddess of Spring, despite the original text not stating as such. Also, Hades did not control the Styx; in fact, no one did. It was a Goddess you swore to, and breaking it means death. Even Zeus fears her, so he is very careful in what oaths he makes to the Styx River. Also, to add to the discussion, I wonder if the whole myth of Hades and Persephone was people being upset she was no longer a Goddess of the dead and little retcon to bring people back by stating she married into the House of Hades to return to her actual home.

36:02 The idea of "[insert sacred entity here] is scary, don't speak their name or you'll get their attention" is *very* old. For instance, the words for bear in Germanic and Slavic languages come from Proto-Indo-European roots meaning "brown one" and "honey-eater" respectively, instead of the root for "bear" reconstructed based on other PIE languages, and based on what we know of early germanic and slavic cultures, plus cultures they interacted with, the leading theory for why this is is that the word "bear" was considered taboo, because bears were sacred and also scary, and saying their name could potentially cause them to appear. So basically people used euphamisms to refer to them, and eventually those euphamisms became so ingrained in people's minds as What You Call Bears that they forgot that it was a euphemism at all. (This process is pretty well known to happen to other words considered taboo, but most of the better documented examples are like. Terms for genetalia, bathroom stuff, sex stuff, etc. (Ex: "penis" comes from the Latin word for "tail" which was occasionally used euphamistically to refer to penis. "Dick" comes from "richard", but for a while the name was used as sort of an informal, general term for any man, sort of like "average joe". So then it started to be used to refer to male genetalia similarly to the modern euphamistic useage of "manhood".)

26:14 Red said that we have no evidence Hades predated Ancient Greece. As far as we can tell, Hades as a character didn't exist until Ancient Greece.

You've never heard the term "pastel goth" before? That's honestly the most shocked I've been at you being being ignorant of something. Well, to explain, "pastel goth" is just what it sounds like. The goth aesthetic, but with pastel colors. It's an aesthetic where you get your cake and eat it too. Want to have a spooky look, but you also want to be cutesy? Boom, pastel goth. In regards to the Hades/Persophone relationship it easily equates to Hades = goth and Persephone = pastel.

I’ve read the Hymn to Demeter recently for a Classical Mythology class, and the “eating the food of the underworld binds you to the underworld” thing is probably a symbol for the wife become a part of her husband’s household.

12:09 What diffrence between a marriage and kidnapping in the context of the most ancient people not just with the Greek, was that whenever the man had the permission of the girl's parent or usually just the girls father which plays role in the myth of Persephone's abduction as Hades the abductor had the permission of the father (Zeus) yet not the permission of the mother.

Pomegranate is called the fruit of the underworld in several myths so might be one of those everybody knows about thing as a reference so they might not actually explained it they might have assumed that everybody would know

3:55 James Woods. Arguably his best and most iconic performance. He liked playing him so much that said he would always play the character whenever his used. And he did. Hercules tv show, House of mouse, Kingdom Hearts.....

The Hades game has such a cool version of the Cthonic myths of Greece that I accept it as headcanon. Hades, Persephone and their son Zagreus are so fun to watch as they develop with the other denizens of the Underworld, with the Olympians as fun background characters.

“They call me evil. Villain. The Devil. But the joke is on them. For I don’t care what they call me. I don’t care what they think of me. I have a duty to fulfill, and such petty things can not detract me from responsibilities. All Gods have a duty to the world for we are bound to it and it’s people. But only *I* take it seriously. Only *I* don’t treat the world like my playground and the mortals as my playthings. I am firstborn of Kronos and eldest of the Olympians. Cheated out of my birthright by my own family, my own siblings! Yet I got the most important job of all, dispite no one knowing it. For in the hands of any of the lesser mature Gods I call my family, the dead would flood the world of the living. So let them spew their lies. Let them believe their falsehoods. It makes no difference nor matters not to me. After all…” *sly smirk* “All become my subjects eventually.” -Hades on Pop culture’s view of him.

"In the hall of mountain king" or however you call it - the music from beginning.

41:20 Which means that if Poseidon in the older times was also her father, it might've been more of a custody battle then a marriage. Not to say it couldn't have been (ew), but just a funny interpretation.

One thing to keep in mind about the story of Hades and Persephone is that the story is more about Demeter and Persephone's reunion (a mother still keeping her daughter, or at least able to keep contact with her, after she's been married and taken by another family. Something that is still somewhat common to this day.) than Hades getting hitched. I still love Hades and Persephone's dynamic as a couple in greek mythology but the newer interpretations feel more and more removed from the actual point of the Hymn to Demeter.

4:00 It was James Woods who played Hades in Disney Hercules

“The Goddess of Spring” - part of the problem is Walt Disney. Prior to Snow White, there was a Silly Symphony cartoon with that title, which ID’ed Persephone as the GoS. Pop culture sometimes doesn’t research very well.

Courtly love came from eastern traditions when the Crusaders came back from the east. They had a tradition of love poetry etc that kind of helped with the job of falling in love with your bride sight unseen because they didn't get to see their bride till the wedding night.

Taking Red's theory into account, the theoretical original telling of this myth is PosidonHades kidnapping his daughter. Persephone, as we know her, is the daughter of Demeter and Zeus, but Despoina is the daughter of Posidon and Demeter (as horses).

Hades is Kronos’ first born Son, though I believe Hestia is the actual first born

18:59 Iris was the OG messenger of the Gods before Hermes. 30:30 Despot originally was just a royal title without negative meaning. Much like the Roman understanding of Dictator.

3:39 You might've been getting it confused with Dreamworks' _Sindbad: Legend of the Seven Seas_ that one has Greek Mythological basis.

@Airier Pomegranate are symbols of fertility. So hades giving her pomegranate’s seed means he wants to have kids.

Hades was Kronos' firstborn son, Hestia is the eldest sibling, followed by Hades.

Another little connection between Poseidon and Hades that I made, and is completely unsubstantiated just my crack theory: Is Hades birthright, the Hymn to Demeter and many other sources always make a point to honor of the lineage and birthright of Hades. He is the firstborn son of Chronos, rightful heir of the whole world, He is the King of Kings, and no matter how much you run eventually you will be his subjects. And in my mind this can be seen as a connection to Mycenaean Poseidon, He was the head God, King of Kings, ruler of the whole world, but when he was reduced and split into God of the Sea and Hades (MAYBE), and Zeus got to be the Big Boy in Charge, those titles passed to Hades, who is once again, often referred to as the rightful ruler of the world and the King of Kings.

It's a nice wholesome relationship as long as you forget about the father approved kidnapping part and that Persephone is Hades' niece who was born of the incestuous pairing of his younger brother Zeus and his older sister Demeter

Thanks for this reaction. From your response I would temper it with one small note: while a lot of things we now condemn were not criminalised or as socially reviled in the past, that didn't automatically mean that everyone in the past was a dik; you could get away with a lot by having soldiers and stabby skills, but that itself didn't guarantee that everyone in the past was worse than today. You'd still be called a dik. Just a great/notable dik, with enviable possessions. The gods on the other hand are nature and nature hurts and kills people, so that an inescapable part of their characters.

29:37 the pan-siberian conceptualization of the underworld has influenced many eurasian ideas of the afterlife, the proto-indo-european tradition being only one of many, which is why underworlds can often be similar but distinct in the details of how they're treated. There is usually a way in and out in all of them, but they're of verying difficulty. They're old stories, old enouph to predate the americas being populated. They've had a long time to drift. Sun Wukong breaking in and out isn't the best guage of how difficult escape was thought to be as he was intended to be busted compared to the world around him, but the chinese tradition did develop independently out of the original siberian one, before being influinced by the vedic tradotions.

It’s so funny to see Airier learn the phrase “pastel goth”

The moral of the story is this... Hades is actually not that bad compared to everyone else and most of all: *NEVER TAKE DATING ADVICE FROM ZEUS*

Kidnap and marriage being the same thing. Feels there is a joke in there somewhere along the lines of, my ex wife still misses me but her aim is getting better.

So I said on their original video, I thought up some more connections between the myth and the older versions of the gods. Poseidon was both king of the gods and king of the Underworld. If so, then if he took a daughter as his wife, then her mother would also be of the same rank, a Queen. Which explains why Persephone and Demeter are referred to as the two queens. But when Hades and Poseidon were made in their near current forms, neither became the head god, losing that important context. However, Persephone was also becoming the daughter of Zeus or potentially was before. So by making Zeus the sponsor of the kidnapping, that important context remains intact from the previous iterations, and is why the seeds are Hades's first act of real agency. That was the king Poseidon's way of keeping his wife while also giving in to Demeter's demands of returning her daughter.

Airier, you know you can get a degree in Folklore and Mythology, right? You don't need hand-eye coordination for it. So Hades is almost always one of my favorite characters whenever I come across him in different media. In the myths, he's one of the least problematic gods and he has a big dog that he loves almost as much as he loves his wife. In more modern stories, he's either very kind and caring, but has a job to do that people don't like, or he is just having the most fun chewing up the scenery (Disney and Kid Icarus Uprising are some of my favorite Big Ham Hades). He's just so enjoyable. And Persephone, when she shows up, just helps make him more enjoyable.

James Woods is Amazing as Hades, and has actually voiced that version of the character in every media featured in, from the og movies, the spin off cartoon, Cameos in "Mickey's house of Mouse cartoon, and Kingdom Hearts. Also I Highly recommend Lore Olympus, It's So Good

Red has a video called "the Wrath of Demeter" on why it's not a good idea to actively piss her off.

I do love the modern romance of Hades and Persephone in media nowadays. it is fun. also i created my own tournament of Record of Ragnarok, and had Persephone as one of the fighters. or more accurately, her going by "kore" and showing off her more dreaded cruel side as the outside shows an innocent girl of nature, but in the fight she releases savage thorns, has a smile and aura that causes a primordial fear in people, and even intense sadism.

That was indeed one of Red's most popular Miscelleanous Myths. But you should cover her Halloween Special on Werewolves if you didn't already do it.

2:30 This is In the Hall of the Mountain King (The Little Einsteins cartoon made it the literal theme song for some of their episodes, called “Dragon Kite.” I *also* associate this song with lions).

I would recommend trying Hades, as while you can succeed with amazing reflexes, most people become competent at it be learning not to run into damage and to move away from incoming damage. There's multiple long range styles and a turtle shield, plus all the roguelite elements, like extra lives/health can make it more forgiving.

the song you recognized at 2:25 is "in the hall of the mountain king" when you pointed it out i got curious and knew i had it in a playlist somewhere ^^

Seemingly,, Ancient Greece brought Persephone's husbando to life...o.

So Pastel Goth can be summed up in the Queen of the Underworld Persephone they use in the video and Thumbnail. A mix of the bright pink and the black, a mix of cute and macabre. The flower goddess associated with spring being married to the king of the dead

14:56 Yeah, the actual order of birth for the original six Olympians was: Hestia, Demeter, Hera, Hades, Poseidon and Zeus. The reason he’s always counted first is because, apparently, they went by the order of who was VOMITED OUT OF DAD’S STOMACH FIRST, and since Zeus never went down the hatch to begin with, he wins by default. Gee, it’s almost as though the world is rigged in his favor…

And to mirror what someone said down below Hades was played by James Woods who I did not know who he was before the movie but apparently he was a big deal because he cameoed an episode of Family Guy

Yes! I've been looking forward to this one!

My own take on the origin of Hades is (and I think I commented this under a previous OSP-reaction before) that Hades as an alternate name for the underworld came first and then the deity, in part because I feel it's quite peculiar that both the place and its ruler share the same name (granted it's the same in Norse myth with the goddess Hel and the realm of the dead Hel/Niflhel?), and although Ancient Greek language is of course very different from modern English and contemporaries, I feel like it's not exactly uncommon for language that denotes a female ruler of a place to be the same as language that denotes the relationship of a woman to a man, like "mistress", Persephone can be referred to as the "mistress of Hades" and it'd be correct regardless of if Hades is referring to the place or the god. Anyways, the origins of Persephone herself are extremely intruiging... how she was seemingly the sole ruler of the underworld originally, and a duo with her mother who was effectively a goddess of life, and then with Poseidon, the "Earthshaker", himself as her father... actually him being the father of the ruler of the underworld definitely would strengthen his rep as cthonic king of the Mycenaean pantheon, despite seemingly still being primarily a god of the sea. Also, Demeter and Persephone being revered as a duo in their main cult-place makes me feel like they might've originally been independant gods of life and death that were eventually swallowed up and integrated into the Mycenaean pantheon as related to Poseidon, its king, when the Mycenaean people started to spread across Greece... and with Greece being made up of so many islands, it's also real easy to see how a god of the ocean would become their head god while they were expanding their influence across these islands, now that I think about it, and why his influence would've started to degrade in the hellenistic period when Greek culture had already spread throughout the entire area even with it being split between the various city-states. Also, obligatory FGO-connections... there's not much, honestly. Demeter was one of the Greek gods that actually appeared in LB5... but we didn't get too much about her, the only noteable thing is that Persephone was definitely on her mind, which makes sense, but not much else that didn't have to do with the entire pantheon. Even Aphrodite got more with her clearly valuing Hephaestus despite always cheating on him in myth, and recently an appearence in the Interlude of Galatea iirc, the statue she awakened to life, with specific references to her two very different aspects (or might've been Galateas materials? I think those got translated around the time I played the Interlude).

Also, Mycenean Posiedon was considered a God of earthquakes more than the sea. He had an epithet that means "Earth-shaker".

This is my favorite one! FINALLY

Another *possible* clue towards the conclusion that Hades is an offshoot of Mycenaean Poseidon is actually that Hades is specifically noted as being Kronos' *first born son.* If you recall in the video done about Hermes and Hermes being an offshoot of Pan, the Greeks later started to reconnect Hermes with Pan by stating that Hermes was Pan's father, despite Pan being obviously a MUCH older deity. Hestia being the first born of Kronos and Rhea is somewhat important to her lore, so he couldn't be specifically the First Born, but Cthonic!Poseidon being the oldest son of Kronos might not have been as important as just the idea that "The First Born Son rules the House of the Dead". And if the Hades as an Epithet got peeled off into his own God, he would naturally be slotted into the role of First Born Son of Kronos as Poseidon's Cthonic ties (and subsequent importance) were stripped away. Therefore, Zeus remains the Youngest Child, as is important to his mythology, and Poseidon gets comfortably shuffled into being the middle son because he has no myths that require his place in the birth order to be truly important

If I’m remembering correctly, this video hit #7 on trending. So I’m not surprised people said this is one of the best videos. I’m pretty sure it came out on Valentine’s Day too. Also, I’m not sure if you know this or not but most of the Detailed Diatribes are about modern media. They’re fantastic, I’m certain you’ll enjoy them but so far as I can tell, there are only two where Blue deals with history and two where Red goes into mythology. If you make videos of reacting to any of the Detailed Diatribes, I’ll absolutely be there. I love long videos, they’re great for when my hands are busy but my brain isn’t.

Those two words in the title just about sums up most of Greek mythology

24:44 ''Dread'' ▪︎ Feared, Revered / Terrifying, Frightening, Scary ▪︎ Fear or Apprehension ▪︎ To be very afraid of something / to fear that something bad is going to happen

Hadestown is a musical version of the myth of Orpheus and Eurydice set in a fictional version of the 1920s.

2:30 Grieg: Peer Gynt Suite No. 1, "In the Hall of the Mountain King"

@Airier you FING BooB. James Woods was the one who played Hades

It was James Woods who played Hades in Disney's Hercules.

Another good deep dive is Red's video on Loki.

I would love a 4 hour video of you geeking out on Red's stuff! Though it might be more digestible on the audience if you'd split it in two or four parts actually.. Other than that i love your reactions; because unlike others you comment on the content and add your own theories and knowledge on it!

Yes Airier, Pastel Goth has been a fashion trend for a few years now. Worth looking up, it's fascinating!

There is a version where Demeter abandoned Despoina after her birth out of shame and after Persephone went to the Underworld Despoina brings the cold of the winter and later marries Boreas, the north wind.

The OG Beauty and the Beast story. "Use this ring to return to me or I will 💀 if you don't return".

1:08 Zeus did to Hera what he does to mortal women and out of shame she married him.

I think the name you're looking for is James woods, that's the guy that played Hades in Hercules

Blue's "God Awful Long" Video: Dew It

the "speeding up" song at the beginning is "In The Hall of The Mountain King" by Grieg. She wasn't speeding it up, that's how the song goes.

47:30 Not 100 years. NOW! People are still doing it now, with various success, and some of that stories would be retold in a 100 years in the same way as you described. And if that have an active fandom with enough power to make someone believe it's true - well, than it will became a part of schools history books.

These videos always make me happy. OSP for the win.

Even in the modern day people are cautious about speaking about bad stuff. The whole fear of speaking something into existence is something that has been around for a long time.

Similar to the osp Loki video I feel like if I ever get a wish, I'd wish to have a complete version of every piece of writing in history or a complete compendium of significant events, beliefs etc. I hate those holes in our knowledge that will never be known or not knowing how those things changed over time.

Demeter sulking somehow reminds me of Achilles sulking

Zeus demanded Hera as his new Wife (first one got absorbed), but she declined since she knew their symbolism clashed. But he is Zeues, so he ran over her anyway, knowing how important her Vows are to her. He Guilt tripped her.

I would be interested in you checking out the Diatribes. They tend to be more focused on media than mythology, but honestly they're some of my favorite content from the channel. Do feel like they'd probably end up being multivideos for you given their length though.

Yet this is still the most wholesome and functional relationships in Greek mythology.

There might be a parallel between the Mycenean (or even older) versions and Mesopotamian version in a queen of the Underworld being the original ruler of it and a male figure being put her side having been a later development mirrored in mythological stories that make the king of the underworld being given that title and function later as well. Ereshkigal was the queen of the underworld and Nergal descended to the underworld and became her husband.

20:10 I remember a interpretation from a graphic novel in middle school that's a series around the Greek myth it was that she ate those 6 when visiting the pomegranate farm in the underworld

19:30 It might be just hearsay, but according to one site, at least one version/translation indicates Hermes might have found them _in bed_ so to speak. Awkward.

James Woods is the voice of Disney's Hades. He enjoys the role so much in fact he comes back to voice him any chance he gets. Including the direct to video spin off movies, the TV series, and of course every kingdom hearts game

YES FINALLY I haven't even watched it yet but I've been WAITING for you to see this

I'll edit this as I go along: Not so much Murder Cults but murder and sacrifice were part of Dionysian cult practices. In truth, I half suspect the creators at Games Workshop have based Slaaneshi cults after Dionysian cults as they were dedicated to the mind-altering or "awakening of the mind" through hedonistic embibing of all substances. They were hedonistic decadence incarnate, hence why a lot of politicians liked it when the cult eventually took over the culture. So try not to be surprised that a lot of Dionysus' lovers were VERY non-consenting to the God that makes you hallucinate shit. Well, except for one: the Cretan princess that Jason dumped by literally dumping her on a remote island. As far as I know, they (Dionysus and this princess, named Ariadne) were doing fairly well. I could be wrong since I haven't heard of an expanding source on that one, but still. Airier, shame on you. Hades was voiced by James Woods: an actor who's honestly way too good at voicing villains. Hades, Owlman in JL: Crisis on Two Earths, that government agent from San Andreas, etc. To be fair on Greek heries, they were shown as pinnacle exemplars and fallible warning stories; depends on what they're good at and what kills them. The only exception is Perseus whi has no identifiable flaws. As much as i don't like kicking my religion's history since everybody dies that enough already, Catholics were indeed guilty of mistaking the stoic and serious Hades for the evil and duplicitous Satan because both are grim and grimbly, and live underground. When, honestly, Hades is a better analogue for YHWH than Zeus is since both uphold major codes of ethics, sticklers for rules while being fairly forgiving. Though having everything graphic in Greek myth be bent more in a Christian ideology is likely for Syncretism to better bring in Greeks during Conversion; something we commonly did to better and more peacefully ingratiate foreign cultures instead of Kill first, Convert Later. Mainly hecause we knew and still know that God will Damn us for forcing His beliefs through swordpoint.

Kinda shocked that neither Red nor Arier put a censor in for the painting around 8:00. And that RU-vid didn't trigger either

Zeus forced himself on Hera while in the form of a ire, which made her have to marry him.

You might enjoy the detail diatribe on Stray Gods, but idk how much of it you would actually watch seeing as partway through, they say, "Go play this! We're about to discuss spoilers!"

James Woods played Hades. He did do a fantastic job.

Persephone and Hades are one of my favorite couples. As shown in Lore Olympus

Its not a misconception that Persephone is the goddess of spring. Shes legit defined as such. Its just strange because technically she doesnt actually bring spring, and technically the most she could be a goddess of is the underworld. But she is classified as the goddess of spring.

People (like me) actually believe that persophone was the goddess of plants or something, but I finally learned about her job more

I know the feeling of archaeology as i wanted to do the same but with paleontology, even having my own theories about how a plesiosaurus was stuck in the loch ness lake or a really wild theory on how the T Rex may have been an actual wyvern in the lands of china. However the process of paleontology is more behind the desk stuff and scholarships and paperwork, which sucks cause exploring ancient history and fossils, even excluding stuff like Jurassic Park and indiana jones with its romantic fantasy to it, has always been fascinating.

11:37 I can tell the difference The Marriage pose is mutal Hand Holding Abduction is the Not so mutual Grabbing of the Wrist

The last Supereruption to occur on Earth was 27 thousand years ago from the Taupō Volcano on the North Island of New Zealand. However, this eruption seemed to only effect the Southern Hemisphere. That being said, its probably not _impossible_ to find a natural disaster thet might hypothetically coincide with this myth, but that will be _incredibly_ difficult to find out thanks to its age.

I jumped in exitment when i saw this video in my notifications

Fun fact. Hades originally asked Zeus for Persephone's hand in marriage. Zeus gave permission.

for the merlin stone thing.... we have people names darth goku by now, that doosent mean anything

One of the best couples in history, period.

Best couple! GOALS!

I definitely agree that this is one of Red's best

I thought he said Courtney love, I was like what does she have to do with mythology 😂.

You, being of a historical and punny nature, should definitely react to the Di-vine Deities playlist.