I had Dysport a few times .i was listening to Dr. Xu..and she mention that people who are getting botox and not taking care of their skin may have the skin laxity there..but i was told by a nurse who does botox that if you get too much botox during a year..the they will have skin laxity...i dont see how skin care routine would make the difference. Your weakening the muscle so obviously your forehead skin will have laxity!! It important to keeping the muscles strong ...great video Clare
I think it's likely that skin laxity would be much more noticeable in someone with very photodamaged skin for instance so what she's seeing in practice is that people who don't look after their skin are more prone to obvious laxity.
Great discussion! I appreciate you exploring both the benefits and concerns of botox (and similar products). Balanced sources of information are hard to find.
I had for about 5 years twice a year, Botox in my 11s and forehead I decided to stop it was giving me hooded eyes but I used to love the effect I might start just having my 11s done and leave the rest alone 🎉
I was just talking to my dermatologists and telling her I don't want hooded eyelids, and she told me it all depends on the technique/placement - normally it shouldn't cause hooded eyelids/droopy eyebrows.
@@liviusss I had aplastic surgeon very very experienced injector and it sill happened I think that if you do have injections along the top of your forehead it will cause the brow to drop despite what your derm says but good luck
Interesting interview but I found the conversation about the fact that not frowning... may make you less sad or less depressed seen as a good thing a little bit disturbing. That is a normal emotion to be sad or depressed (since we are not talking about clinical depression here of course) and that's actually healthy to go through your emotions. It's like we live in a society where the most normal and basic thing are less and less accepted.
Hi! This is a great point but I think it is important to clarify that this effect has been studied in the context of patients with diagnosed major depressive disorder. I completely agree being sad or feeling depressed in response to certain events is completely normal! The current research is specifically in patients with clinical depression so thank you for highlighting this.
I've been having botox in the glabella and crows feet region since age 19. I am nearly 37. I have started to have a little bit above the eyebrows also. Generally, I've been extremely happy with the outcome. I do believe it has helped me look younger than my years. People always assume I am younger and ask me "what my secret is". However, recently, I have noticed the development of shadows in the glabella and forehead area that are similar in appearance to 11s lines (but are not actually lines). They do not disappear with botox. I thought this meant I was perhaps becoming immune to botox, and it was no longer relaxing the area and lines were developing. However, my practitioner says that I am still getting full paralysis. So, after watching this video, I am wondering if this could be the beginning of that rippling effect? If so, what can I do about this please? I take good care of my skin and health (sunscreen, skincare, anti-inflammatory wholefoods diet, never smoked, never drink alcohol etc). I have tried microcurrent as I read this could be a good compensatory muscle treatment. I had terrible results. Just one use on the forehead area looked awful, seemingly suddenly creating the appearance of lines and shadows and a general flattened, yet lumpy older appearance. I experimented a few times with that and didn't do it again in that area as it didn't appear to be doing anything positive. I continued with the rest of my face for about a year but suffered significant facial fat loss. I have always had a round, full face, but the microcurrent completely changed my facial shape by destroying the fat in the buccal area, flattening the upper cheeks and creating hollows at my temples. This was at age 34. At 37, the fat has never recovered (I am now trying Adipeau thanks to this channel!). So, are these unsightly shadows in the forehead area a result of muscle atrophy, fat loss or just generally appear with age? (Is it normal at my age?). I hope I don't have to give up botox, as I absolutely love it! However, I certainly don't want to be causing this effect! Thanks so much for the video! Keep up the excellent work! 👏
Hi. I'm not a doctor so can't pretend to be an expert on this but from what was said in the discussion it might be worth leaving slightly longer between treatments to recover some muscle function in between.
I guess you have to weigh up what the alternative is and if you would prefer the deep 4/5 permanent horizontal lines across the forehead and deep number 11’s. I just have to look at my dads Forehead and know that I deffo don’t want that when I’m his age. 😂😂😂
Thanks this is interesting, I am in my 70's and have had injectables on and off since my 60's once or twice a year when Botox is wearing of you should do some muscle exercises like Micro Current to prevent atrophy of the forehead muscles, it's true i'm a frowner especially in my sleep, and I feel far more relaxed and comfortable after Botox, it's been 10 months since I last had injectables and my next appointment is next month, meanwhile iv;e been improving my skin and using the Nira Laser and taping my forehead at night to train my muscles not to frown, I have been lucky to find a Registered really good qualified injector x
Good info! But I would like to share my own experience w/Botox. I have gotten btx for 10 yrs for my 11 lines every 13 wks or so. In the last year I had terrible headaches that lasted for two months straight… waking up w/them & going to bed. The third month they subsided and went away. I didn’t know at that time that it was from Botox. I tried Dysport and the same happened. I finally figured it out and I’m headache free … I LOVED my Botox but it’s just not worth all the pain… my back ached nonstop too - I just felt like I wanted to die. But now I’m good - I just miss the Botox results.
I wonder if microcurrent offsets the muscle weakening and atrophy? I usually get botox every three months. I'm now thinking maybe I should only get it every six months. Thanks for the info!
I learned from other YT that they use microcurrent to make muscles stronger and get rid of tox faster when getting a negative effect like hooded eye or eye ptosis...
Hi Clare, great interview. Super informative! I use tox about twice a year and definitely love it. I do let my muscles get a break from it she I'm way over due now. Lol love your channel!!!
as a physician, i strongly recommend you don't tell your dr how to do their job... not that they aretoo arrogant, but u want the dr to use what he/she is comfortable with. if a dr has limited experience with one brand, and is super comfortable with another... let the dr do their job best they can without stressing the dr out!
Botox resistance (immunity) does occur in some patients. According to those who do recognize the phenomenon of Botox resistance, the numbers are low-about 1% to 3% of patients who are injected will develop toxin-blocking antibodies.
Hi Helena. So glad you enjoy the videos. I haven't had fillers in my cheeks so I'm taking that as a compliment : ) I used Adipeau for six months which helped restore a bit of volume and I think taking collagen powder has also been very useful.
@@thehonestchannel yes your cheeks look amazing deffo a compliment. I’ve lost a lot of volume in my upper face and looking bottom heavy now. Thinking about a little upper face temple and cheek filler but not sure. Starting to get that upside down triangle look as we age. How old are you you look incredible x
Hi Clare, I would love that both practitioners share about their opinions about toxin and face yoga/exercises. Some people feel that both can be used together while some say that they will cancel each other out. I do not have a conclusive answer. I wonder if someone who does face exercises will wear out the effects of toxin faster. Thanks.
I think it depends on what your goals are for face yoga. Toxin is very effective physiologically at blocking the signal between the nerve and muscle, and it is impossible for face yoga to cancel it out. If the signal to make the muscle move is not being relayed - it will not move! The only way face yoga could potentially make toxin wear off more quickly is if the muscles are already stronger than they were initially through exercise before the toxin is administered. I don't know if you were asking about this specifically, but there is absolutely no evidence that face yoga can treat wrinkles or contribute to anti-ageing. Let’s be clear, there are no rigorous, scientific studies to verify the claims that these sorts of face workouts are effective at eliminating wrinkles, and it is unethical to market it as such. A recent systematic review identified that all the current studies that show a positive result are of an extremely poor quality - with tiny sample sizes, no control group, no blinding, and very subjective outcomes. Face yoga is not a substitute for proper skincare, a healthy lifestyle, or aesthetic treatments (if and only if you desire). If we think about basic underlying principles about why we get wrinkles, we know that it is all about skin quality as well as muscle movement. This is why botulinum toxin works so well to smooth lines - because it is relaxing movement! Fines lines come from collagen loss over time, and exercising your muscles will do nothing to improve that.
Something new that Dr Qian says is about the atrophy of the muscles because they are not used, due to the toxin. However, Dr Tim Pearce (also from the UK) once shared that once the toxin effects wear off, the muscle can even become bigger because it starts to work again. OH... how confusing isn't it? Who has the right answer? So far the photos and videos of those who have had consistently used toxins over the years always have rather smooth lovely skin. A lot of them are actually here on RU-vid. I am quite concerned hearing Dr Qian say she sees patients with worse foreheads after using toxins.
I know Dr Tim Pearce and have a lot of respect for him. It's important to not take what he said out of context. If the muscles are allowed to recover, meaning that no further botox is used, the muscles will indeed become bigger and stronger again. What I was talking about was people consistently having botox and never letting the muscles recover. In that case, the muscles will shrink and remain small.
@@qianxu8970 Hi Dr Qian, thanks for replying to this. I watched that video a few years ago and what he (I admire and respect him as well) said stayed with me, I was really puzzled. Your explanation makes sense! So the key is to allow time for the muscles to recover and not always have toxin present in the muscles. There are patients and practitioners who say that muscles can build tolerance towards the toxin and next time they need higher dose to achieve same result. So could this actually be that their skin quality has worsen rather than the muscles not responding to the toxin, due to consistently having toxin and 'permanent' muscle atropy?
Yes, it helps with vertical lines on the lips but it wears out faster as we move our lips and mouth area so much... My sister had very bad vertical lines on her upper lip after years of using a straw to drink her beverages and tox had helped minimize it. They use a very small amount. I like it too. Good luck trying it.
You looked up angel lift? I was searching online on Reddit and RU-vid last night to see what people thought apparently it helps and also helps the lips as well Super expensive for some plastic yet less than filler
im a huge fan of plexaderm for my under eyes. anyone with indee eye bags... it works. i looked up the product u recommend.. i can't see how wearing something inside my mouth would help my nasolabial lines. you really vouch for this?
Did the three of you coordinated to wear the same colour of clothing for the meeting? ;p Dr Qian says that the toxin relaxes the muscles... I am curious if 'relax' and 'paralyze' are the same? I totally agree that the toxin does not help with skin quality but at least it does stop the muscles from doing repeated movements that cause existing lines to become static and deeper. We know that static lines contribute to looking aged. I think indirectly toxin does help skin quality a bit at least. Young people wrinkle too with expressions but their lines are dynamic.
'Paralyze' implies that there is complete relaxation of muscle, whereas, the term 'relax' seems more like a spectrum. In practice, we do see a different degree of relaxation in different people receiving the standard dose. So I prefer to use the term 'relax' to describe what botulinum toxin does.
Just put some forehead filler in 😂😂😂 and sleep on your back. It’s either possible ripples or undesirable deep forehead lines 😂😂 not sure what is worse.
@@thehonestchannel yes that’s it. I actually had it for a top up the other day and have been panicking ever since. I don’t think o will have it again. It’s too risky if something goes wrong or it spreads too much it could last for much longer 😬. I have a tendency for my eyebrows to drop if too much is put in so have to be really careful if it’s in the forehead or spreads up there. At the moment it’s ok but will have to see what happens over the next few days 😬. Scary. If anyone tries it i feel is where it’s even more especially important to go to an experienced injector that knows exactly what they are doing and has experience of the product not a beauty therapist or a lash artist that all seem to be training to do it. Please go to a fully medically trained professional practitioner unless you want to risk having your muscles paralysed incorrectly for 6 months. Also there is less time for muscles to recover I’m guessing. I would love to hear about anyone else’s thoughts and experiences too though. Possibly a video on this would help and be a good discussion point.
