Calvinism and Catholicism (w/ Redeemed Zoomer) 

I'm glad RZ came on and thank you all for being patient with the video mishap we had. I was so bummed when my connecting dock broke right before the interview (hence why I used my laptop camera). But I'd much rather have a solid interview with good audio with less than ideal video than good video and less than ideal audio.

Thanks for having me on the show! I think it was very informative and productive. God bless!

We NEED Trent building a church in Minecraft.

Mom is Mormon and my Dad is Non Denom. I was heavily involved in both churches. Devout even... Im Now in RCIA converting to Catholicism . Viva Cristo Rey!

Thanks for the shout out, Trent! Very kind

Zoomer's content got me into theology in general. I'm Catholic and I've found his stuff extremely helpful for my own faith. Thank you and God bless, Zoomer!

Orthodox christian here but love these chats both so chilled and humble Fruitful conversation

I was born and Baptized a Catholic but after my young days in the church, I left the church to live my own story. My story was not good, hard and very bad but I lived it. I was approached by Baptist minister at one of my friend's home. I went to the church a few times, like the music and singing but felt empty. Later a Jehovah's Witness knocked my my home door and I answered. I invited them in and we spoke for some time, well actually they spoke most of the time. They invited me to their Kingdom Hall but I don't know, it looked more like a community center and not a place in which God would dwell.. so I didn't stay there. 25 years later, when my life was at my ends, I tried to end my life. I didn't die that day but I had 3 days to really think about my life. When I got out, I was just talking by the church I went to as child. It was Sunday so I walked into it during morning mass. It was like God was speaking to me, like the mass all the words were for me, it was like my soul woke up and the tears came down my eyes.. the Lord God, spoke to me and I stay in the Catholic Church of my youth. I ended going to the Holy Land and walking the path of Jesus, while I was there, I could feel Jesus, it was like he was walking with me. I hard this burning feeling inside, something today I wish so many people could feel. God spoke to me in my dreams, answered my prays and opened my eyes to another world... a world of confused Christians, Islam and God haters... I started my journey to be my Church's only Apologetic... were I help many Catholics and any non-Catholics, do tours of the Church and even teach Catholicism to my Catholic family. I couldn't be more happier, something I have never felt, or enjoyed without God my Father in Heaven. Thanks Trent for doing all you have done for our Church.

I’m so, so glad Catholics are starting to talk to Calvinists more. Good stuff. I converted from Reformed Baptist.

As a Protestant desiring to learn more about the Roman Catholic faith, I absolutely loved this conversation. Thank you to both!

Redeemed Zommer will be a Catholic by the end of the decade. 🙏🏻✝️ As Chesterton said It is impossible to be just to the Catholic Church. The moment a man ceases to pull against it he feels a tug towards it. The moment he ceases to shout it down he begins to listen to it with pleasure. The moment he tries to be fair to it he begins to be fond of it.

My favorite Catholic Evangelist and Trent Horn haha. But for real RZ's IG is hilarious how often he's like "why do people keep converting to Catholocism from my page?" Haha

As someone who left Protestantism to embrace Catholicism, there needs to be more ecumenical dialogue to display Christ likeness. This was awesome! Thank you Trent Horn for being a perfect example of being Christ like! 😊🙏

I’m Protestant and trying to learn more about Catholicism. This video helped a lot.

Thank God for this kid. Before I converted to the Catholic faith, I struggled immensely with so-called "New Calvinists." I'm very glad this young man is restoring an understanding of the "Calvinist tradition" that, at the very least, appears to have a much better appreciation of scholastic theology and philosophy. And thank you, Trent, for doing what you do.

No way my two fav Christian RU-vidrs just collaborated! Chat is this real? God bless RZ and Trent!

🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:00 *🎙️ Discussing the Concept of the One True Church* - Exploring the concept of the one true church and how it influences religious beliefs, - Differentiating between the Catholic and Protestant perspectives on the one true church, - Examining the implications of ecclesiology in theological discourse. 03:00 *🏛️ Understanding the Role of the Catholic Church* - Delving into the historical perspective of the Roman Catholic Church's claim as the one true church, - Comparing the Catholic view of ecclesiology with Protestant and Orthodox perspectives, - Discussing the papacy and its significance in maintaining unity within the church. 08:05 *📚 Exploring Doctrinal Similarities and Differences* - Highlighting similarities and differences between Reformed theology and Catholicism, - Examining the distinctions between the visible and invisible church, - Considering historical views on church unity and schisms within Christianity. 17:37 *📜 Understanding the status of Protestants according to the Catholic Church* - The Catholic Church traditionally defines a Christian as someone who has a valid baptism. - Valid baptism is performed with the correct matter (water) and form (words), according to the mind of the Church. - Protestants with valid baptisms are considered Christians, though theological differences exist. 20:34 *🛐 Authority of Church teachings and levels of assent required* - Dogmas, infallible teachings, such as the Resurrection of Christ, require full assent of faith. - Infallible teachings not dogmatically defined, like the validity of a Council, also require assent. - Teachings requiring submission of mind and will, like immediate soul creation by God, necessitate acceptance but allow personal doubt. 24:06 *🤔 Interpretation of "salvation by faith alone" and implications for Catholics* - Pope Benedict XVI noted that formulations like "saved by faith alone" aren't inherently wrong if faith includes works of love. - Catholic understanding distinguishes between doctrines one must believe and the eternal fate of those who reject specific doctrines. 32:02 *🎓 Reconciling exclusivist views with the diversity of religious beliefs* - Strict exclusivism challenges the salvation of those who haven't encountered specific religious truths. - Calvinist predestination offers a theological shield against criticisms of unequal opportunities for salvation based on birth or geography. - The tension between exclusivist and inclusive perspectives shapes discussions on evangelization and religious diversity. 35:05 *📜 Overview of Calvinist perspective on predestination* - Discussion on the Calvinist belief in God's sovereignty in granting grace unequally. - Comparison of Calvinist and non-Calvinist perspectives on the sufficiency of God's grace for salvation. - Exploring objections to Calvinism regarding the fairness and justice of God's actions. 36:14 *🛤️ Calvinist perspective on finding election in Christ* - Explanation of the Calvinist view that finding election lies in Christ, not in oneself or in a particular church. - Discussion on the role of theological accuracy and sacraments in Calvinism's view of salvation. - Addressing objections and complexities regarding individuals' understanding of Christ and church affiliation. 37:51 *🎚️ Perspectives on God's grace and salvation outside the visible church* - Exploration of whether members of the elect can exist outside the Christian faith. - Clarification on the covenant promises of eternal life within the visible Church. - Consideration of individual salvation possibilities based on invincible ignorance or other factors. 40:11 *🏝️ Understanding God's election and means of salvation* - Discussion on God's election and the means through which it operates. - Clarification on God's unconditional election and the role of evangelism and sacraments. - Exploration of theological nuances within Calvinism and comparison with other perspectives. 42:00 *🧭 Differentiating Calvinism from Calvinistic evangelicals* - Distinction between various streams of thought within Calvinism, including supralapsarian and infralapsarian positions. - Clarification on the rejection of equal ultimacy within Calvinism. - Discussion on nuances in understanding the gospel and salvation within different theological traditions. 52:34 *📜 Differences between Calvin and Thomas on predestination and election* - Calvin and Thomas both agree on unconditional election. - Calvin's view of predestination is more Christocentric, emphasizing Christ as the elect and believers being elect in him. - The substantial difference lies in the perseverance of the saints (PE) in Calvinism, where Calvinists believe in the perseverance of the elect, while Thomas believed in baptismal regeneration. 53:16 *💭 Views on original sin and the fall* - Original sin, according to the Catholic view, is a deprivation of grace inherited from Adam's rejection of God. - Calvinists differ in their views on whether God decreed or permitted the fall, leaning towards the idea of God permitting it while not outside his providence. - The understanding of reprobation and election varies among Calvinists, with some emphasizing individual responsibility for damnation. 57:07 *🕊️ Understanding salvation: Faith, works, and Union with Christ* - Catholics believe in salvation through union with Christ, which encompasses faith and works. - Salvation is viewed as a process in Catholicism, involving initial grace through baptism and ongoing sanctification. - The concept of merit in Catholic theology is nuanced, emphasizing God's promises and the role of works in salvation as a response to grace. 01:10:04 *🛠️ The difference between Calvinist and Catholic views on salvation* - Calvinist and Protestant views generally assert that bad works cannot cause the loss of salvation. - Catholic doctrine suggests that a bad work can lead to the loss of the gift of justification. - Main difference lies in whether bad works evidence lack of regeneration or not. 01:11:39 *🌱 Understanding the parable of the sower* - The parable of the sower illustrates different responses to the gospel. - Shallow soil represents superficial faith that may seem genuine but lacks depth. - Jesus' parable suggests that some people may appear saved but are not truly regenerate. 01:12:23 *📜 Exploring apostasy and regeneration* - Traditional Calvinist and Presbyterian beliefs acknowledge apostasy as a real phenomenon. - Not all apostates fit the category of "they were of us, but not really." - Regeneration remains a theological category with eschatological implications. 01:14:13 *🤔 Clarifying the relationship between faith, works, and salvation* - Discussion revolves around whether salvation is contingent on avoiding evil works or actively doing good works. - Understanding of works extends beyond traditional good deeds to include avoiding evil actions. - Different interpretations exist regarding adherence to commandments and Sabbath observance. 01:17:41 *🤝 Perspectives on marriage between Christians and non-Christians* - Catholic perspective allows for marriage between a Catholic and non-Christian with proper dispensation. - Protestant view emphasizes marriage between Christians due to the covenantal nature of marriage. - Interpretations differ based on theological frameworks regarding marriage as a sacrament or covenant. 01:26:30 *📜 Calvinist and Catholic views on marriage and divorce* - Exploring differences between Catholic and Protestant perspectives on marriage dissolution. - Calvinist perspective: Marriage dissolution applies if one spouse abandons the other due to conversion to Christianity. - Catholic perspective: Marriage remains valid even if one spouse abandons the other, emphasizing the permanence of marriage bonds. 01:27:25 *🤔 Interpreting Paul's teachings and Protestant views on marriage* - Debate over the perpetually binding nature of Paul's teachings among Protestants. - Protestant interpretation of Paul's writings on marriage and Christian faithfulness. 01:29:05 *🤝 Protestant views on marriage between Christians and non-Christians* - Discussion on Protestant traditional understanding regarding marriage between Christians and non-Christians. - Clarification on the requirement for Christian marriage partners in some Protestant denominations. 01:30:45 *🙏 Protestant concerns about Catholic practices: praying to Saints and Mary* - Exploration of Protestant skepticism towards Catholic practices such as praying to Saints and veneration of Mary. - Comparison of Protestant and Catholic perspectives on devotional practices and iconography. 01:32:35 *🔍 Recognizing potential abuses in religious devotion* - Acknowledgment of the potential for abuse in both Protestant and Catholic religious practices. - Examination of historical instances of superstition and idolization within religious traditions.

Great conversation! I appreciate the collegiality! As a former Protestant turned Catholic, it almost makes me cry sometimes when I see Catholics and Protestants in loving dialogue wishing each other well!

I grew up as a Jehovah Witness and then participated in various protestant denominations for decades and joined the Catholic Church in my mid fifties. The most convincing argument is the history of the Church. As a JW, I would knock on peoples doors as a child and read Matthew 28:19-20, and when Jesus said, "I am with you always, to the close of the age,” it is only the Catholic Church that can say Amen to that statement. I don't believe for a second Jesus would let his Church go astray for over a thousand years and say I tricked you and now I'm going to straighten everything out. God is a God of order -- he chose Abraham, Moses, David, etc. and then Peter to protect his Word. Catholics may differ on their opinions, but that God has a leader (266 popes in succession) and magisterium to safeguard doctrines speaks volumes to me. The "gates of hell shall not prevail against it (the Church)." Notice the word is it -- not them. There is only one truth, one faith and God gives us around 28,000 days if we are blessed to figure it out through grace. However, I do believe many who love God with their whole heart and love neighbor will be at the table in Heaven, regardless of faith because God is love and I think there are many people besides Catholics that love God with their whole heart. But the fullness of truth is in the Catholic Church.

RZ got me to question what my exact beliefs were and made me a little less anti Catholic. Ripperger made me consider that Catholicism could actually be true. Then Trent answered just about every question or objection I've ever had. I come from an anti Catholic family and my husband is only halfway on board but I would love to convert. Baby #2 due any day so there's a lot going on at the moment, but my husband is very open to listening to debates and anything from Trent Horn. I'm hoping to belong to the Catholic Church before baby #3 🙏🏻

It was lovely to see how RZ is going out of his way to not mischaracterize catholics, especially when he explicitly checks in if his take is fair or not. Really appreciated this episode, would love to see this discussion continue.

As a former Presbyterian convert, I truly appreciate this conversation.

I really enjoyed the dialogue versus debate format. As I listened through the program I understood why redeemed zoomer minimizes the differences between calvinism and catholicism. He has reached an understanding of the reformed position that brings it very close. Having been a presbyterian and had my masters at a school which is in the reformed tradition, I think his positions, as an entirety, are held by a very small minority of reformed, even those very schooled in the reformed confessions.

As a Protestant Reformed Baptist, thank you both for this convo. Really helped clear up both your positions for me. God bless!

Lutheran here, loved this convo and love both of your channels! God bless y’all!

Love this. Interview Christian Wagner or Classical Theist next

PCA Presbyterian here. I greatly appreciate this discussion. Hopefully they can meet again!

My two favorite Christian RU-vidrs in the same video? Let’s go

My favorite protestant on my favorite Catholic’s show. Epic. Love you guys.

Been waiting for these two to meet for so long, excited to watch!!

This was an awesome conversation. Thanks to both of you!

As an Anglican, I think both Trent and RZ make excellent points! They both are very good Christian talk RU-vidrs, they both are amazing!

OH MY GOSH I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS THANK YOU

Great conversation! Former Catholic convert and apologist here. RZ, you need to know that many, many Protestants have no problem with IVF. Recently encountered a member of a baptist church who was a surrogate mother for another couple. She actually believed she was doing a good thing. The Protestant disobedience on contraception has facilitated the confusion about all sexual issues in the Protestant church. Trent Horn, if anybody can bring me back to the RCC, it will be you!

Thank you so much for introducing me to Redeemed Zoomer! I appreciate you both so much, with your mutual courtesy and respect, and your knowledge of the issues! May God bless you both!

This is not a collab I was expecting anytime soon lol. Glad to see you both are sitting down together!

The only charitable discussion I needed to see🤣👍🙏✝️🇻🇦 my favorite catholic apologist and favorite Protestant apologist on social media 😎

Yooooo the collab we never thought we needed!

This is a great conversation! I like that there's no audience, and emotions involved, but rather just sitting and discussing facts together. Great dialogue!

Excellent discussion between a solid Calvinist and a Catholic theologian. It's great to see this friendly question/discussion meeting,

I was very excited to see this video pop up in my feed. RZ’s video on Christian demonstrations opened my eyes up to how many different thoughts there were in Christianity. It led me down a path of discovery and learning. I found Catholicism to be the most interesting as its claims were so unique. I’ve been listening to RZ since last Easter, and I started listening to Trent only a couple months later. These are two of my favorite Christian’s to listen and learn from. Thank you for the conversation! I can’t wait to listen to it.

This is an excellent discussion. One of the best I’ve heard on these subjects. Godly, intelligent and insightful. Good job gentlemen.

I was waiting for this! Can't wait to watch it! Thank you Mr. Horn.

This was so informative and super helpful. I too am a Calssical Prebyterian, and I watch and listen to Trent all the time. This is a super well done conversation

This was such a great discussion. Redeemed Zoomer is very articulate and well read. S/O to him.

Just saw this on my feed. I discovered Redeemed Zoomer a few months ago, and he comes across as very intelligent and informed, as is Trent, so this should be an intriguing dialogue.

my most favorite collaboration! great job!!!

Loved the discussion. Two of my favorite RU-vidrs to listen to over the past year as I've begun my Christian journey. Though my understanding is more Catholic than Calvinist, Redeemed Zoomer's ability to teach and share at an easy to understand level is remarkable. Also, seeing someone younger than me with his level of passion for these topics does my soul good. God bless both of you. Plese keep the edifying content coming

I've been so excited for this, love you both!

As a catholic, i was very happy when trent said, "to enter the final salvation all must do is not to reject God, accept the initial salvation and not dying in the state of mortal sin"

This was amazing to listen to. You were both engaged with each other and it seemed you guys really hit a stride and kept it going. Would love round 2 of this!

This is the Catholic/Reformed discussion I've been waiting to see.

Love RZ. Really helped with my understanding of Christianity. Started my process of going back to the Holy Catholic Church.

God bless RZ from this former Presbyterian convert to Catholicism!! Great discussion and I appreciate both channels and the great work that they do 🙌🏾

Redeemed Zoomer is brilliant! God has gifted him with high intelligence. Love Trent Horn and your ministry all these years. Thank you for this jewel of a conversation and interview. God bless!

Fantastic conversation! I sincerely hope this happens more often!

Shoutout to Redeemed Zoomer for making some great videos for people that are new to Christianity!

First off. The low quality is fantastic, its actually very cool, mean this as a fun compliment in the best way.

Thank you for this great conversation. I learned SO much. 😊

I’ve seen this guy in some recommended videos. His videos are very reminiscent of “old RU-vid” he is a very smart young man and am so glad he was able to talk to Trent. God bless.

As a Presbyterian in RCIA, this video is a microcosm of my experience this past year. Every objection I made was along the line of Zoomer's objections but I ended up at Trent's response that the same argument could be made by an atheist. When you caveat Calvinism enough times, you end up with Catholicism plus mental gymnastics particularly on salvation. The catechism's understanding of predestination and cooperation with grace fits so much more naturally into the teachings of Jesus. Calvinists are left arguing in circles about how the Bible can call us to righteousness when our depravity is so great that we can't even will good without unconditional compulsion.

I’m a former Calvinist and became Catholic 4 years ago! My youngest son and my wife became Catholic and my three older children are still Reformed.

Excellent! Thoroughly enjoyed this.

Great dialogue, guys! It's always refreshing to see a cordial conversation between people who disagree.

I'm an Anglo-Catholic, and Trent's argument at 17:06 was one of the best, most succinct arguments I've ever heard to demonstrate the divine nature of the Church and what she teaches. Really well said.

Redeemed Zoomer reminds me of myself back in my Reformed days. Maybe that's why I like him so much despite our obvious theological differences. 😅

Outstanding video, very informative and respectful!

Enjoyed the dialogue. Thank you both. God bless🙏

Trent did really well explaining the Catholic position not only scripturally and religiously, but also logically. Our faith cannot be one of irrationality, as it is intended for all to hear and come too. Redeemed Zoomer had an open heart and good counter points but I think the root/seeds of his position were illogical and didnt really get a fruitful breakdown for someone not already familiar with Calvinism theology. Good video overall from both

Toward the end of this debate I noticed something that I see happen with a lot of Protestant discussions on issues. A moral issue where there is disagreement amongst Protestants comes up and the position of both sides basically boils down to a “no true Scotsman” argument as opposed to something with any real teeth to it. Like given the IVF issue, post the Alabama Supreme Court ruling, we are seeing MANY Christian’s from what would typically be called “conservative” Protestant viewpoints coming out as pro-IVF.

I've been waiting for this for a good while loved it

Great to listen to. I found the topic of the doctrine of rewards and distinguishing what is meant by 'merit' very helpful.

My spouse was a Lutheran, now Catholic. Good to include them as contrast between Calvinism and Catholicism.

Redeemed zoomer helped me come to Christ, then I left the Church of England for the one true Church

Redeemed zoomer did so well! Great job! Loved this conversation and Trent, I’m so glad you finally spoke with an actual reformed person and not a Baptist. 🎉

Thanks Trent! another great vid! Appreciated! Not enough thumbs to give a million thumbs-up!

Perfect! Redeemed Zoomer made me Catholic, Trent Horn kept me there!

this helped me understand my Catholic faith more!

This was such a beautiful and deep session. Thank you for the respectful and rich discussion. I have been wrestling with the Lord for over a decade (if not longer) as He has been drawing me to salvation and to the Catholic Church. This was really helpful. May God bless you both.

Great to see this conversation being had.

RZ was originally into Rudolph Steiner? It's hard for me to imagine anyone going Calvinist after that! (Also, this was a great video.)

When he quotes Jesus saying the sheep hear my voice. I was gonna say that’s exactly why I’m catholic now and no longer non denominational Christian/Baptist anymore. When I went to mass I just felt it was different and after 2 years of researching I became catholic. And that was the last conclusion I thought I would have come up with. I seriously thought Catholics were a cult but no anymore. So I want to ask the Protestant guy have you been to a mass? Have you tried to be a catholic for a month or year? If not then how can you know being Protestant is correct? Giving the logic he used.

Richard aka Redeemed Zoomer ~ Thanks for being you ~ a needed truth teller.

What a powerful and helpful discussion. These two gentlemen didn't debate one time. They simply discussed.

Im only two minutes into this video and RZ has already said multiple things that made me chuckle.

So many of our ancestors who lost so much in the religious wars of the 16th and 17th century are very glad to see that Christians cab more and more just come together and dicuss in peace

Wow I can't believe I missed this! So cool to see you two talk. I am also a Presbyterian like RZ but I have a lot of respect for Catholics, especially the scholars.

😵‍💫 definitely need to take breaks listening to you guys . You guys are super educated on these topics, bravo 👏.

To be honest, I didn’t expect this

I like this guy. Hope he will be catholic soon.

I've been waiting for this for almost a year now.

Love this discussion y’all!

There is the one Church, and then there are separate communities of the baptized not submitting to the authority of the Church as commanded by Our Lord. Letting go of my anticatholic inherited nonsense took a long time, but I'm glad I could finally submit to the authority of Christ. He desires us to be as ONE, that others may believe. Great dialogue as always! Love the RedeemedZoomer's channel as well.

Trent is evangelizing this Protestant fellow. This could be the beginning of his move toward the Catholic Church.

RZ is a very knowledgeable and is a good man. This was incredibly productive and shows how conversations between Christians should be. Cheers Gentleman!

Thanks for doing this interview zoomer.

Give us a guide of how to be a Catholic apologist like you Trent. Proud to see a San Diego native doing great things for God! 😃 You're the man!

Redeemed Zoomer is an awesome Calvinist. I definitely like his stuff.

This was really good. I’d love to see more collaboration between you two.

I realy enjoy this formula! God bless yall 🙏