Can A Christian Lose Their Salvation? A Debate With Trent Horn & Dr. James White (Part 2) 

been their done that boring.

@Stuart Williamson When?

@@pauloftarsus8145 Been where? Done what?

Salvation By grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God - Ephesians 2:8 The faith through which we are saved is the free gift of God. Our salvation is not based on our good works, on our best efforts at religion, or on our foreseen faith (faith itself being the free gift of God). Salvation is of the Lord, and it is entirely based upon his sovereign grace. Our faith, therefore, is not in faith, or in self, but rests in Jesus Christ alone as its perfect and glorious object. If our faith was in anything else it could be defeated, be deceived, or be derailed. Our good works come and go. Our spiritual zeal has its ups and downs. Even our faith waxes and wanes. But Christ's work is always sufficient. What a joy grace is! If we could earn salvation, then we could lose salvation. If we could lose salvation, we would lose salvation (remember even perfect Adam lost his perfection). But because salvation is by grace, our faith in Jesus Christ will never be disappointed or dismantled. It is as secure as God himself can make it. Walk in that faith today. Rest in that grace today.

@@StandForTruth205 Amen

Amen. If we are truly born again and changed in our hearts we will be sealed and kept in Jesus Christ eternally. I agree with James that when we are truly in Jesus Christ no one and nothing can separate us from His love.👑🦁💜the scripture is clear on this. A change only in mind is not true salvation.

@@elsablue3646 amen

This is true only if you repent of sins.

JUDUS NEVER FELL A WAY HE WAS NEVER A BELIEVER AT ALL

What Trent did was to attempt a more inclusive perception of the content by reading it's entire message. It does give a better understanding of what the main points are trying to convey. I'd like to add that realizing how long the Catholic Church can actually go back and trace their origins as compared to the reformed church , it does open up more divisions that continued to form beyond the protestant reforms started by Catholic origins. So the promotion or progress of faith had more than 1000 years behind it up until the split. It does appear to be like throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Well said, if you cheery pick then you will accept James's position.

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-TbKAayHcQco.html

CAN or will Jesus Christ EVER,,, UN,,, REDEEM HIS OWN AND ABORT THEM ?

The path to destruction is very eloquent, enticing and smooth. The path to salvation is narrow and unpleasant and sometimes undefendable.

@@regelnews989 Exactly! That's why you must repent and confess your sins. You couldn't have brought up a better quote. It's not easy to get to heaven. God bless 🙏❤️💙❤️🙏✝️🛐

I'm not a catholic either but Trent Horn is correct. The difference between these 2 men in this debate is that one is reading his theology and creeds into the text and other is not doing that. Both men know what they believe. I will state emphatically that there abominable practices within the Roman Catholic traditions. The are heretical teaching in protestant traditions. Our practice and our theology must be derived from the scripture in context and as a consistent whole. You can't start your reading of scripture with a presupposition about the order of salvation and then exegete the text in light of the presupposition. That's the error for James White.

@@Unobserved07 You are over simplifying, I can agree Trent has some great points but he also brought his theology into the text, you see it clear as day when he is forced to speak on “foreknown/predestined” texts like Romans 8. The first 10min was ridiculously confusing as Trent tries to make arminianism fit with Scriptures dealing with ordained election, it doesnt work. If you go to the end of Part 1 you see Trent speaks on this “God looks ahead on who will accept him, etc.” explanation, its not at all what “foreknown” or “predestined” even means as terms.

@@ricoparadiso foreknowledge is quite literally to know beforehand. Predestined does not mean predetermined as in picked for destruction or picked for salvation. You are predestined to what ? To be conformed to the image of His son. This happens when you listen to His voice and follow Him, not departing again to submit yourself to the law of sin and death, but by putting to death the deeds of body so that you may live. For you are slaves to that which you obey. Does God force you to be comformed and obey him? Of course not. Now once you're ready to make a counter argument by using romans 9 without specifically referencing the old testament context for each example in it including, exodus/Jeremiah/and malachi, we can discuss what it means to have zeal without knowledge. The problem is people have built a knowledge of God without diligently seeking Him as he has revealed Himself in His word. Ripping verses out of context to make a pretext by which to build a systematic theology of God, whereby nullifying the principle that God is the just and the justifier of those who love him is grievous error and dangerous.

the truth is the more important than our lives

CAN A REAL CHRISTIAN EVER BE ,,,,,UN ....REDEEMED JESUS CHRIST DOES NOT BELIVE SO OSAS IS TRUE TO JESUS CHRIST

Agreed in all honesty the real debate starts in the cross examination

Agreed. It should be 20% opening/closing statements and 80% cross.

Amen!

You bring the will, the holy desire, to cling to the Cross. We consent to surrender to his Will. But clearly, we can withhold that consent... And yes, it is by God's grace that we consent; but we are not puppets, we are free to accept or reject that grace... In any case, keep clinging.

@@marianweigh6411 Nothing in my hands refers to a sacrificial gift,, I think every believer already knows that one brings the heart and manifestation of faith which is the essential requirement to cling , that is if one feels they must cling instead of stand in the saving grace our savior provides

Amen! Not by our deeds or any part of us but by His sacrifice and grace i am saved. I am His. When we truly are saved we are never taken out of His hand. Alleluia!

@Sim Amen :)

@Ed Mendez both used the Bible. They just have a different interpretations of scripture.

@Ed Mendez it is not his personal interpretation. that is called eisegesis. What James White is doing is called "exegesis" which is basically understanding the text in its original intended meaning. The original context. This involves investigating the historical and cultural backgrounds of the author, text, and original audience. Other analyses include classification of the type of literary genres presented in the text and analysis of grammatical and syntactical features in the text itself. What you're describing is "literal interpretation" which basically is understanding the text in plain language. This process involves trusting the Biblical tradition and bible translators. This leads to a number problems since the translators are not 100% reliable. The English or Latin translation is significantly different from the original language used by the writers when they write the text (Hebrew and Ancient Greek). Not saying that we are required to learn Hebrew or Greek. But in crucial theological subject such as the gospel or salvation, it is necessary to dig deeper to get an accurate understanding of the text.

No he’s not. The first mistake was him being Catholic in the first place. They worship idols.

​@@sognaniman you are just allergic to giving people a fair shake aren't you. No points to make so you just attack the straw man you grew up with. Not here to argue because arguing via comments is dreadful, but show some fucking decorum man. No one has made more Catholics than people like you who bring nothing but toxicity to the table.

Agree. I am not a cathol8c but he is slaying the arguments of the ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED crowd. I have a new respect for catholics because of this view. (Still don't trust the vatican)

CAN Jesus Christ ,,,, un... redeeme his children? NEVER OSAS IS VERY TRUE PERIOD

Amen. Jesus prays not for the world but for those the Father has given Him (john 17:9) ( not only Jesus but the Holy Spirit makes intercession for us in our weakness, when we dont know what we ought to pray for) and willed that He not lose them but raise them up on the last day. (John 6:39) He prays that our faith fails not, much like He did for Peter. (Luke 22:32) Those whom The Father has given Christ from out of the world.(john 6:37) We are promised, guaranteed and sealed unto the day of redemption to everlasting life by the same power that raised Christ from the dead. (Rom.8:11) The effectual fervent prayer of Jesus the righteous avails much. (James 5:16) Therefore He is able to save completely those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to intercede for them.(Heb.7:25) Amen.

This is the part where protestants brothers get it wrong. Jesus says he will not lose any that the father has given me. BUT that does not mean the cant leave on their own. That's why people fall away, no one took them from Jesus they left on their own. That's the difference.

Exactly! Why Mr. Horn "just doesn't see it" is beyond me. Dr. White further emphasize it in Greek in the closing statement.

You are so correct that True Christians will.endure to the end, btw just a quick question how would you determine a true from false Christian? I suppose we have to determine it's creation or origin. So the word Catholic were officially named around 300 AD. And they were the one who compiled the books in the Bible. The early fathers of the church translated it to different languages. I suppose they continue this work to spread the word of God. So they continued the mission passed on by the apostles. May I ask when was your church founded, I mean literally when was your church founded, I suppose you have Anniversary right? So is it possible that the early fathers where fake and after a very very long time somebody suddenly realizes the Truth. And uses even the most blasphemic reasoning, that God revealed the truth to them and so the new meaning of the words in the Bible can now be interpreted by anyone who claims it. Who do you think would know more accurately the history of your country, the latest historian or the people who lived and wrote stories during the time your country where discovered. Do you also believe that all details during that era were all written by the historian at that time. I guess not. So we have to consider the culture and tradition that were passed on into different generation. If a certain period in your country's history, you were colonized for a very very long time by foreign intruders and eventually claimed later that they are the true citizen of that country, would you believe them. Then I gues what we need to do for us to know the truth is to check on the facts. God bless us all.

@@elreyhats You imply that without scriptural proof. That would be like Jesus saying. “I’ll hold to you unless you want to leave.” What breaks the seal of the Holy Spirit? Man’s free will? You give too much authority to a sinner.

Yes he is on the rope and may have spoke false doctrine. Only Dr Michael brown has put him on the rope until now. Good job Mr Trent Horn.

Are you blind??

Immutability!! God never changes so why would he change salvation.

Choose you this day who you may serve Joshua 24:15. "choose" maybe Joshua was lying. Hebrews7:12. For when the priesthood is changed, there also has to be a change in the law. No, not blind at all.

Vincent Sheridan they both don’t know the true God ( once saved always saved ) God Gave his only begotten son to the world so we , ( sinners) will call upon the lord Jesus Christ as our Lord and savior John 3:16

You can celebrate his birthday each year with a "Council" instead of a party! 😂

Peter was afraid for his own life and therefore denied he knew Jesus, but he did not deny him as the Messiah and Savior, obviously he didn't bc Peter came back stronger than ever in faith and love for Jesus and his ministry.

Those are words for a chosen leader. That's why Peter's name always comes out first in the list of Apostles. That explains why Judas is at the last.

He's so sweating. Look close you'll see. James isn't

Romeo Sabaoth The illogical summary of Jame Whites position

Noah Wells No I am not.

Noah Wells I am though bud, what would you like to know about the Universal Church?

@@atruechristianforlife7787 can I ask some questions of yourself? Starting with this: Why is there still a Cleopatra's needle at the front of the Vatican?

By 10.15 They become bogged down Terminolgy and splitting words and stuff . Just talk REAL Trent starts getting bogged down in splitting hairs . That’s because that’s what white wants .

@@mordecaiesther3591 well I think it failed him.

He (Mr. Horn) kept referring and pointing to Calvin in aims of discrediting Dr. White, which is an instant Catholic reaction to losing a debate with scripture as the key source.

@@WalkingRoscoe who gave you the scriptures. ??? Who picked the books we have as scripture ?? The Holy Ghost and Catholic Church . It says in revelation some people lost there first love . You can lose your first love and never want to have anything to do with Christ ... they tasted salvation and then walked away . This is horrible to happen to anybody .

@@mordecaiesther3591 oh here we go with the dated Catholic rhetoric.

The One HOLY Church that RAPED thouunds of Children! " You will know them by their fruit"!

Andrea Blackshear ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-bd0cidJHe_0.html

Jonine Blackshear not biased much, is it?

He's arguing against Rome's position/ideas of synergism, continued penances & the dogma of purgatory relative to one's sin & salvation. All of which is not in the Bible.

@@prayingpatriot8018 the Harlot Church

Where's the problem?

That's not in the Bible.

@@me73941 that is a quote from st. Francis of Assisi.

its because election is not referring to predetermined saved people..election can view for individual service for Gods plan

17ACTSVERSE11 ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-bd0cidJHe_0.html

Astounding criticism to someone who holds to sola scriptura...the convoluted interpretation is in the sola ekklesia position

Let us hear the "plain meaning" of the word. Jehovah s witnesses love to quote the plain meaning too, so I guess Jesus must be a created being because he went to "my father and your father my God and your God". Plain meaning lovers often end up in sects like Heavens gate without the suicide part.

Understanding the “plain meaning” of the text can be in and of itself dangerous. For example. In Colossians 1:15 Jesus is called the firstborn of all creation. Are we to simply interpret this plainly as the words are stated? Absolutely not. The word firstborn is a Jewish idiom and we must understand how was such a word to be understood? Firstborn = prōtotokos (πρωτοτόκος) If we look at the Greek Septuagint, we will find this word used 130+ times, sometimes indicating the birth of a first child, but is this what Paul is saying? Exodus 4:22 Then you shall say to Pharaoh, 'Thus says the LORD, "Israel is My son, My firstborn. Now obviously, Israel is not the first nation God created, but instead is the nation that God chose to have a special relationship with. We also see, Jeremiah 31:9 ...for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn. Such a passage speaks of Israel's relationship to God and Ephraim's special status in God's sight. But the verse that really expresses what Paul may be referring to is, Psalm 89:27 I also shall make him My firstborn, The highest of the kings of the earth. This is a Messianic verse that is talking about the Messiah to come (verse 20). The Psalm seems to indicate a place of preeminence and high status rather than birth or origin. Romans 8:29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; Here, the Lord's superiority and sovereignty over "the brethren" is acknowledged as well as His leadership over their salvation. Hebrews 1:6 NASB [6] And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says, "And LET ALL THE ANGELS OF GOD WORSHIP HIM." Firstborn in the passage above is indicating a title of position, and not birth or origin. Especially since angels worship Him. Colossians 1:18 "...firstborn from the dead..." Revelation 1:5 "...Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth..." Obviously Jesus is not the first person in all of history to have died. So it is clear as of now that firstborn (prōtotokos) indicates a position of priority and not creation or origin.

@@jmsto87 Catholics actually believe in church and scripture...

Naw

@@manofwar2529 Yes he did. God bless.

Mr. Horn made absolutely no sense when he was trying to explain "the gift of perseverance". What's the difference between what he said and what James White was saying? He lost right there....

@@graylad He lost nothing. The point that he made that he agreed with White only that God knows who will persevere to the end. We do not know who will persevere to the end. However, there are many people who are in a state of grace, in God's sight, who will disobey, (not persevere) and get cut off from God's grace, and won't persevere to the end. The multitude of Scriptures that he pointed to, show that there are people who are in God's grace, who will be cut off from God's grace because they don't persevere. Rom 11:22, Gal. 5:4, Heb. 10:29, Luke 8:13. Huge difference and Mr. Horn explained himself fine.

Matt all he did was add an extra unnecessary step in reformed theology regarding the P in TULIP. Cooperation of man’s will as necessary for salvation makes God not almighty or sovereign.

Amen and amen. I just listened to it and played it for my wife. It is the gospel promises without the confusing clouds blocking out the light. Amen.

Calvinism is false though, that's the paradigm he interprets scripture and the Gospel.

@andys3035 which part is false?

@foluwasoaribisala TULIP, Double Predestination, the idea of the damning of the Son. Calvinism has lots of problems.

Glad you believe Catholic doctrine.

Then you won't have any problem taking the Mark of the Beast....Since you can't lose your salvation! Thou Deceiver of children...

@@phoenixrich149 No true believer will take the mark of the beast, and I'm not somebody who claims that works are the evidence of salvation. The angel of the Lord will command everyone to not take the mark as in Revelation 14:6-9 and the sheep will hear His voice and follow Him as in John 10:27. Further, where else in scripture is the head and the hand referenced? In Deuteronomy 6:8, so the commandments in Deut 6:1-5 already are on the head and hand and cannot be replaced because the angel of the Lord will tell every person on earth to avoid it.

yes, but we must cooperate, we have free will, we are not zombies

Salvation is of God, because He is the Creator. BUT, God wants a free, loving relationship with His creation, not as robots. St John the Baptist said God could create rocks to worship Him. So God makes covenants with His creation. His creation concurs with the agreement. This is how grace works. God freely gives grace, and His creation freely accepts the grace so that God's Will continues by His grace. As Paul says, "The things I do is not I but God in me.". An ambassador agrees to represent and do the work for a head of state, not himself. As Jesus told St John the Baptist, "It is good to Fulfill all righteousness.".

Well thats great to hear John

Mr. Horn state that Eternal Security is not part of Apostolic teaching. Really? Is Mary, Praying to Mary, Mary entering heaven in Bodily form, Mary’s is sinless, Mary never had children, sex etc, Purgatory, Transubstantiation, Priest,...........on and on, Gas lighting! He is the Apostate that he refers to, trampling on the Son of God. And yes, we all fall away every day! Thant does not mean you have lost your salvation. God standard for Heaven is perfection. Mr Horn like the rest of the work is far from perfect, thus he cannot save himself.. He needs a perfect sacrifice and savior.

@@CENTURY21JEANNINE you must be refering to another "Mr. Horn" the one in the video never claimed such nonesense that he was perfect, or that he would save himself. Hope this help

@@CENTURY21JEANNINE Everything you listed is Apostolic. Do you actually read the whole bible? Or just a few verses? For example- Priest- notice the word presbyter.... Titus 1:5, for this cause I left thee in Crete, ordain Presbyters in every city. Acts 14:22-23, Ordained Priests in every church, and prayed with fasting they commended them to the Lord. Acts 20:28, Bishops watch over the church. Mary, yes she is sinless and never had other children. LK 1:28, Hail Full of Grace Note: the Greek word used is “Kecharitomene” = Perfectly , completely endowed with Grace. NOBODY in the bible is described in this manner. Bodily form in heaven? well Enoch and Elijhah are in bodily form in heaven, Why not Our Lords Mother? Gen 5:24, Heb 11:5, 2Kings 2:1-13, Enoch & Elijah were assumed into heaven Matt 27:52-53, Saints rose and were seen walking in the city, where did they go? Assumed into heaven. I can go on and on also showing purgatory and the Real Presence of our Lord in his Body and Blood.

John sullivan jr I agree 100% I am a born again believer and I completely have to side with the Catholic in this situation much to my surprise!

Seek your salvation with fear and trembling

If salvation can be lost, then Christ cannot be called a Saviour. Because this feeble weakling of a Christ cannot overcome human rebellion and self-will. That is *not* the Christ of the NT. St Paul blew this man-centred nonsense out of the water, in Romans 9: “14What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Certainly not! 15For He says to Moses: “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16So then, it does not depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display My power in you, and that My name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18Therefore God has mercy on whom He wants to have mercy, and He hardens whom He wants to harden. 19One of you will say to me, “Then why does God still find fault? For who can resist His will?” 20But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to Him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21Does not the potter have the right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special occasions and another for common use? 22What if God, intending to show His wrath and make His power known, bore with great patience the vessels of His wrath, prepared for destruction? 23What if He did this to make the riches of His glory known to the vessels of His mercy, whom He prepared in advance for glory- 24including us, whom He has called not only from the Jews, but also from the Gentiles? 25As He says in Hosea: “I will call them ‘My People’ who are not My people, and I will call her ‘My Beloved’ who is not My beloved,” 26and, “It will happen that in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not My people,’ they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’” 27Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the Israelites is like the sand of the sea, only the remnant will be saved. 28For the Lord will carry out His sentence on the earth thoroughly and decisively.” 29It is just as Isaiah predicted: “Unless the Lord of Hosts had left us descendants, we would have become like Sodom, we would have resembled Gomorrah.” God is in charge - not man. Christ is the Lord’s Anointed Messianic King - man is not. It is Christ, not man, Who will “rule the nations with a rod of iron, and dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel”. Human freewill cannot overcome the Will of God, Who saves whomsoever He wills to save, whether they want to be saved or not. If human free will is so powerful that it can defeat the Will and Purpose of God, why does Scripture give no hint of this ? There is no reason whatsoever to believe that man, whose feebleness, wretchedness and nothingness are often emphasised in the Bible, can defeat the Will and Purpose of God.

Matthew 7:21-23 The True Disciple.21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven,* but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.n22Many will say to me on that day,o ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?’p23Then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you.* Depart from me, you evildoers.’q

It's sort of a fallacious argument. So if I say that I will always inspire my children to respect me, does it mean that I will infallibly cause my children to never disrespect me? Of course not! the fact God will always inspire us so we don't turn away from Him does not mean we cannot fall away in any way! Know to the differentiate his infallible promise from his loving desire.

Wrong. Read revelation you will see God can blot a person's name out the book of life. They were saved and then they were not so sorry but your wrong.

We have free will Jesus never fails, but sometimes we humans fall. If your position was true, then these bible verses make no sense.... Matt 10:22, He that endureth to the end shall be saved. 1Cor 9:24-27, Run the race until the end, I buffet my whole body least I who have preached to others may become reprobate. Hebrews 3:12-15, we are made partakers of Christ: yet so IF we hold the beginning of his substance firm unto the end. Phil 2:12, Work out your salvation in fear & trembling 1Cor 10:12, Let anyone who thinks he is standing upright watch out least he fall. 2Cor 10:12, Consider the kindness & severity of God, severity towards those who fell, kindness toward you, PROVIDED you remain in his kindness, if you do not, you will be cut off. Romans 5:2, We are confident in the HOPE of attaining glory. Hebrews 4:1, fear of failing to reach salvation ( after baptism)

I think they both presented a great argument

Have you listened all correctly for 2 hours?

@@pelilin2519 have you?

I disagree

I agree

He knows those to endure until the end ,to receive his salvation. He will give them the heart to endure to the end

With fear n trembling

Yes, ive also heard from the once saved always saved camp that even our good works are fore ordained by God and He does the work in us. Our good works are actually His doing per many bible verses but they at the same time deny calvinism and James White

He sent Jesus Christ to save us.

Yep. Some of the osas camps teach that jesus can set u free of sin. White agrees. They both agree commandment keeping is required for salvation

I am curious what you think about inaction vs action. Obviously if you think a bad thing then you sin, but what about lack of action? As in lack of loving your neighbor and not interacting with other people enough, serving enough, etc. when you have the opportunity?

@NothingButTheTruthInChrist The apostles burned books.

God bless you brother...actually calvinism helped me to see the bible as a whole and displayed everything in it to me after so many years in the salvation by works believe vs. Being saved by works which sounds logical as a human but when you go through the bible you find a lot of gray areas if you look at it through the salvation by works lenses. Bless you again brother.

Like many of you, I found this debate to be both fascinating and very thought provoking. As a former conservative evangelical, I was surprised to find Mr. Horn's argument so logical, well ordered and with a solid Biblical foundation. I can see from many comments that many of you felt the same...Which leaves some of you with something of a conundrum. How can the man who we know also holds to Mary as co-redeemer with Christ, Purgatory, and Transubstantiation among other doctrines, have a seemingly correct view on this topic? And if so, how does that impact the universally acknowledged "By Grace Alone, By Faith Alone" plan of salvation? While the essence of what Dr. White proposes is that we are all robots, some determined to glory without any input or participation in any way, shape or form. For those who may be interested, there is a third alternative which presents the gospel in a way that you probably have not heard before. If you might consider investing the time, you may see a gospel which is harmonious with both the Bible and itself. One which does not pit scripture against scripture nor does it have to force fit the natural understanding of passages so that they might comply with a theological model. Here is a forty second review of the RU-vid Channel which lays out this gospel step-by-step. It was unsolicited. I just happened to stumble upon it. Thank you. Grace and Peace to you. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-0l2pIwbmAnEH.htmlere is the link to the RU-vid Channel: ru-vid.com/show-UCdb7ghP3lHTnpsuXUlFDBMwplaylistsIf you prefer podcasts, links to various podcasts are in the about section of each video.

Herb Shattuck Thank you. I’ll take a look into the videos you recommended.

His statement was accurate.

The Apostles did.

James gave church fathers in the first part.

I'm 2 yrs late to your comment, but you need to actually READ the church fathers writings.

@@robertcampbell1343 Hi, will you please expand your comment a bit?

@@tricord2939 Where's the proof ?

if you believe that, no need for the gospel and invitation from God and repentance

@@myraride9563 You've been blinded. If you are OF God, you will WANT the gospel, spread it to everyone you can, repenting of your sins, as you know Christ is your own means in salvation. Non-Calvinists do NOT know Calvinism, creating their own strawmen arguments to debunk and say "gotchya."

@@FabledNarrative you proved the persons point. If you’re always saved then there’s no need for repentance as long as you follow Christ. To be honest, demons are already in that category, they believe Jesus is the son of God just as much as you do. So what is it that distinguishes Protestants from the demons?

Calvinist filth

and he needs to Reformed words

I agree. If we become "slaves of righteousness" then I don't see us walking away from Jesus. The problem with catholics is that they think sin (after salvation) destroys their salvation.

@@spacecoastz4026 Not all sin. 3 things need to be occurring before Catholics would say that you have committed a mortal sin and have lost salvation and would require a recommitment to faith through confession. Paraphrased from catholicstraightanswers: "First, the act committed must be considered a grave or serious matter. Second, the sinner must have full knowledge of the sinful character of the act; in other words, he must be acting with an informed intellect and must know this act violates God’s eternal law. Third, the sinner must give full consent of the will, meaning that he has reflected on doing the action and deliberately wants to do it." Sins that do not satisfy these 3 criteria would fall in the category of venial sin, as in not severing your relationship with God. When you pause and think about what actions actually entail a mortal sin, you realize that the standard isn't all that unreasonable. We're not talking about just a white lie here or there, or my emotions got the best of me and I got angry, we're talking about something that is severe and intentional, with full knowledge of it's wrongdoing. Most people probably don't call it by the term Mortal sin, but most people would probably see the act and think to themselves "there is no way someone can do such an evil thing and be a genuine Christian". Catholicism just puts that concept into theology. A sin that by nature, would entail walking away from God.

That's nonsense and unbiblical! This calvin is really a dangerous person!

Amen. I only Trust Jesus Christ in Everything.

White clearly said in thr beginnig that obedience is required

No he doesn't. I'm an ex Protestant now a part of the one, holy, Catholic and apostolic Church.

CAN a real Christian be ,,, UN.... REDEEMED?

Hahaha 😂😅

@@anthonycalipjo8669 im VERY SERIOUS Can God abort his own Children?

@@theodoreritola7641 If he is un-redeemed on a certain time, he was not a true Christian

Yeah, because we treat the Bible as a whole (Total Scriptura) with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Reading a text without analyzing the context may cause misinterpretation. To sum it up the reason why I believe in eternal security is because Jesus had said it and the reason why their are warnings is to reveal to us who are the real Christians.

@@systemguy0110 amen brother

@CJ P. ummm catholicism is one of the denominations lol...

Its in the bible

Yes. Yes it is. I have found what he says as biblical. All truth can be found in scripture. :-)

@@honestabe4161 That's wonderful to hear and as He also said, many christians hold the same view which means being a Catholic isn't necessary... If that's what you meant about learning more about his faith?

@@Captain_Of_A_Starship I was reading a document put out by the catholics that I found very interesting. It was Lumen Gentum and found this led to more questions. “ Lumen Gentium and the CCC teach that those cannot be saved who know that Jesus made the Church necessary for salvation, yet refuse to enter the Church or remain in it, because by their actions they would be rejecting Christ himself and his salvific plan for us. And yet for those who are invincibly ignorant of those truths, the Church holds out that they can be saved, as Jesus desires that all be saved (1 Tim. 2:4; 2 Pet. 3:9). Because we cannot presume upon any person’s invincible ignorance, we must advance the Church’s divinely given Great Commission (Matt. 28:18-20) with diligence and charity (LG 16; CCC 848).” More investigation is needed.

@@honestabe4161 Hope this is helpful to you in your search ru-vid.com/group/PLzZL-6PIsNgkx-DvBNSpvK1SATsHNGFQZ

Have you never given anyone a gift as a result of a favor done for you? Like many of you, I found this debate to be both fascinating and very thought provoking. As a former conservative evangelical, I was surprised to find Mr. Horn's argument so logical, well ordered and with a solid Biblical foundation. I can see from many comments that many of you felt the same...Which leaves some of you with something of a conundrum. How can the man who we know also holds to Mary as co-redeemer with Christ, Purgatory, and Transubstantiation among other doctrines, have a seemingly correct view on this topic? And if so, how does that impact the universally acknowledged "By Grace Alone, By Faith Alone" plan of salvation? While the essence of what Dr. White proposes is that we are all robots, some determined to glory without any input or participation in any way, shape or form. For those who may be interested, there is a third alternative which presents the gospel in a way that you probably have not heard before. If you might consider investing the time, you may see a gospel which is harmonious with both the Bible and itself. One which does not pit scripture against scripture nor does it have to force fit the natural understanding of passages so that they might comply with a theological model. Here is a forty second review of the RU-vid Channel which lays out this gospel step-by-step. It was unsolicited. I just happened to stumble upon it. Thank you. Grace and Peace to you. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-0l2pIwbmAnEH.htmlere is the link to the RU-vid Channel: ru-vid.com/show-UCdb7ghP3lHTnpsuXUlFDBMwplaylistsIf you prefer podcasts, links to various podcasts are in the about section of each video.

What verse it is..I miss it..

So what does it mean. ?

Hebrews10:5-17;7:23-25; 4:1-3

God is the final judge

Man cannot judge

@@strikes6993 You seem to be judging, that only God can judge.

So, you bend with every wind of doctrine? There is only ONE faith delivered to the saints and it ain't Catholic. Catholics' hopes lies with Mary and the Papacy. Pray that you go back to your first love.

@KTTGHMTJWYCBLAC I love the upbringing I had in the Protestant tradition. It taught me to love Christ and to love Scripture. But going deeper into my faith (Church Fathers, the consequences of Luther and Calvin's theology, etc.) lead me to the Church Jesus Christ founded, the Catholic Church.

Janine G agree

Janine G if he is correct on this one, the rest of the Roman Catholic doctrines follow if you want to be consistent.

Don't be blind!

@@thereisnopandemic that's why most roman catholics are ignorant of their teachings.

Nope.

Jeremiah Nortier why is Trent Horn debating the child of a gremlin and mr. clean.

Jeremiah Nortier hahahahaha

Vae07 Why are Jeremiah and Medrano drifting from the topic of the debate to resort to insulting the debaters?

Jeremiah Nortier I think he looks more like miles teller, but they all look alike haha!

, whoever he is he beat James White soundly.

*Trent

That is before the New Covenant You're literally quoting Isaiah. It is Christ which make our works good. What an absolute butchering of the Bible.

@@eternalbyzantium262 agree..Jesus says come to me all that are heavey and laden and I will give you rest..If we are so filthy Jesus wouldnt tell us to come. God is a God of second third forth........chances.

At first I thought you were gonna say 42:45

Correct but our works does not save us as God gave us a free gift

Oh btw how could Peter be a pope when the chatloic church came well and truly after Peter??

@@russelledwards7084 The name of Peter actually means Rock. what came later was the 30,000,+ Protestant denominations each with its own confusing interpretation

@@smedrano1964 yeah that's right but in the greek it mean little rock. Jesus is saying the he is the rock and his church is made up of people. Not a building.

Yes that's correct but the context of that is if your faith is dead or not. John the babtist said show me works worthy of repentance. So if your faith is alive you will do good works. The Catholic church is trying to earn salvation but Paul said the rightousess will live by faith.

?

Jesus said specifically he use parables so people wouldn't understand

@@BobskiSportsNetwork The unbelievers would not understand, the believers do.

@@BobskiSportsNetwork you must be misinterpreting Matthew, it says the unbelievers will not understand

U right, just praise god, jesus was sent to teach human to praise no one only god, thats all

They were both respectful and both presented their views well, but that doesn't mean they both "did well." James did well in refuting the heresy of Roman Catholicism.

@@rickstark85 incredible job by Trent Horn Mr. White as always trying to spread his false religion

@@smedrano1964 cool story, bro

@@rickstark85 cowabunga dude

S Medrano reminds me of teenage mutant ninja turtles 🐢 lol

Your a manipulater and many of you snakes .

@@Over-for-now Right thanks and it more fully explains why the Creater ignores so many today. though we have to move mountains would be impossible for us.

SEEMS MORE LIKE MAN MADE FEAR OF PEOPLE

@@Over-for-now I suggest you watch the debate between dr. White with dr. Brown against two lgbt pastors. After that, will you think the same that it is about the finished work of Christ... Those two lgbt pastors are professing Christ as their Lord and Savior. Thus claimed the already saved. Someone said to me they (the lgbt pastors) haven't received the salvation in the first place because of their openly practizing what is forbidden... And cannot claim to be christians... I suggest you meditate on Jesus' words: not everyone who call me Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of God, but those who do the Will of my Father...

@@Over-for-now even unrepentance sinner??

Factss

Amen! Also check out Hebrews 10:26-31 powerful passage confirming the once save always saved is a lie from statin. It's all over scripture warning after warning to endure and remain in Christ. This does not mean a works based salvation we are saved through faith by God's grace. There is a condition though and a test. God does offer way more grace and mercy than we deserve for when we stumble. "Take care brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called "today," that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, "IF" indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end" Hebrews 3:12-14 When Joshua said "Choose this day whom you will serve" I believe it's an active command. Not a one time prayer you said 15 years ago. We are moral agents for Christ and there is freedom in Christ to choose him over sin every day. Stay awake brothers and sister and pray that you will be full of oil when Christ returns!

Amen

But, the Bible clearly says, “our works are of filthy rags” the literal meaning is menstrual rags. “Even our thoughts condemns us” so how does what you’ve taken out of context work? I live from moment to moment saved and un saved? Till I repent every second of the day for a thought I might have? Based on your way of interpreting scriptures, I’m saved and un saved on a daily bases. I could see myself saying, did I repent for that? Did I repent for this last 5 minutes? Talk about a nightmare of un certainty. If your salvation has to do with your great works: How much praise do you give God and how much praise goes to you? After all, you’re saying it’s a 2 way street.

@@jeffmays7192 All I can say jeff is that we commit sin continuously every day of our live and that is why. Of you are sure that you do not commit any single sin, and remain pure then you are saved, So why worry? More so repentance should not only be in the mind. Do it by confessing, if indeed you really repent.

CAN A BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN BECOME ,,, UN,,, BORN AGAIN ? OSAS IS REDEMPTION ON STERIODS

Well said! What a blessing this was to read!

False as if it was true nobody would go to heaven. Creater is much more powerful than your thinking.

@@trafficjon400 The 1st and 2nd point is my subjective perspective - opinion, not doctrine, so it cannot be false because it’s my opinion. And my 3rd paragraph is clear and in line with your statement that God is powerful and we are only saved by grace. I think you’re misunderstanding the point here.

We should realize that even our sanctification (holy living) is the work of God, the Holy Spirit, in our lives ang our souls/spirits.

E. N. Please explain Revelation 22:18-19 then.

If someone added to the book or take away from the book they weren't saved the holy spirit would not add or take away his words thus they are subjected to the plagues and are removed from the book holy spirit will not guide you to make him a liar.

Where does it say that? Where does it say the person who changes the book isn’t saved? It doesn’t say that.

@@jandrew86 Revelation 22 18:19 God shall take away his part in the book of Life and from the holy city. So with basic understanding you were not saved beause if you taken away from the book your going to the lake fire does that make sense you never had the spirit in you.

E. N. Unless a person does not remain in Christ and departs from the faith

So, you don’t sin?

@@s.kucerka that's not what that chapter means: wages of sin is Death under Moses law, but by Grace who is Jesus you are gifted eternal life. As Jesus has dominion over All. This be why Jesus is the only way.

He nailed himself. Their are many bible references that has to be removed before calvinism can be truly biblical. The belief that other biblical views are erroneous is myopic.

Hardly

You are hardly nailed in mind

@@farcornersbiblicalseminary9235 shouldn't you be out on a ledge somewhere

James White clearly lost this debate. As Trent said, James theology is driving his misreading of the Bible, rather than letting the Bible verses speak for themselves. The evidence is overwhelming. If Judas the apostle can lose his salvation by abandoning Christ, then we can too...

Yes because the bridegroom was still present. It is a very different scenario when the bridegroom is away and that is when you fast. So your alleged perfect example regarding the thief at the cross is false and not applicable anymore.

Have you studied the thieves on the cross or are you simply posing an argument for a free pass into the kingdom? It is a very typical go-to verse used in attempts to formulate an entire theology around a unique event. When I asked if you had studied the thieves from the Bible, I did so because if you had you would have discovered a very interesting sequence of events. We are told in John that there were three men being crucified that day. Two thieves with Jesus in between. We are told in each of the synoptic gospels that as the Jews and the Romans were mocking Jesus, so were BOTH of the thieves. Mt. 27:44 tells us that the they were both insulting Jesus in the same way. So they were mocking Him for being a King and saying, "Why don't you save yourself and us!?" Ha Ha. But as the hours passed and they observed the Son of Man, he did not cast aspersions back to His tormentors. Instead, He asked God to forgive them! He cried out to God. He took care of His mother. He moved the heart of some of the most hardened of that day. Even the centurion on duty concluded that this Man was surely the Son of God. And one of the thieves was moved as well. We see evidence of repentance and taking a stand for what he came to believe. When you read Luke's account you will see a man who went from a life of crime and crassly insulting Jesus to a man who rebuked his fellow thief for doing what he had also done just hours before. He admitted his sinfulness. He did not demand or even ask for exoneration or even freedom. He acknowledged his guilt and his punishment. And then he defended the innocence of Jesus. NOTHING YOU SAY? And then he turned to the Man which was considered a joke by all and begged for mercy. Nothing? He did all that he could possibly do given his circumstances and his understanding. Are you doing all you can do for the Lord? So because he was about to die tied to a cross prevented him from being baptized or helping the poor or whatever else you think we might propose is a requirement or obligation, do you think God the Righteous Judge will condemn this man for something which was impossible for him to ever do? So now should we compose an entire theology around the example of the thief on the cross? And feel comfortable following his example which should be the universally applied standard? Are you really going to point to him as your excuse for DOING NOTHING? If you are, you are not going to at all like how Jesus will respond to you. Please go back and study for yourself so that you will be prepared to give a proper response when tested.

He didnt have the opportunity to keep commandments. Both trent and white agree that obedience is required