I wonder if the TFL lads have ever done any skateboarding? If my skateboard sounded like THOSE ROLLERS i would literally get bugger all thrust off a leg pump on flat hard concrete, as opposed to a properly maintained skateboard which would roll on heaps further! My point is how much help is given to the cars in these test with such huge amounts of friction being dealt up on those pathetic rollers. I'm sorry but this roller test is at best flawed, at worst a total con job. Why bother doing tests on inferior rollers unless you want a passing grade for a certain manufacturer? You can buy cars but you can't buy a set of decent properly made rollers and not something off a bench that has been used in a local warehouse where even the warehouse doesn't want them as they don't roll anymore! You expect your viewers to trust your reviews and you deal this crap up time and time again! Pretty sad really as you continually ignore the advise given yet ask for comments all the time....Not me anymore, this is me signing out as I hate FAKE NEWS!
Sralaine 007 o-007 yes, but Acura competes with Lexus. He’s wanting Honda to bring the AWD down from the Acura models to the Accord model, which competes with the Camry.
All the tests were good even the last one. You got off the rollers in the real world I’m just looking to not get stuck. If the car does that without a whole lot of drama I’m happy.
It usually comes down to a matter of clearance, not all wheel drive. Most vehicles (fwd, awd) will do OK in a couple of inches of snow, or even on ice if they don't have climb something dramatic, IF they are equipped with a good set of winter tires. But increase that snow to an 8 or 10 inch drift or an unplowed road and you are high centered and stuck. This is where the Subaru shines (along with its symmetrical AWD, which doesn't wait until you slip to kick in, it's always on), with 8.7 inches of clearance. Most people who get stuck in the snow are high centered. At least around here.
I appreciate how you gently hit the gas, almost no throttle to start. So many of these roller tests on autos the driver's always hit the gas hard, which is stupid and makes 90% of vehicles tested look almost worthless.
@@CathodeRayNipplez TFL tests dozens of new vehicles each year. Including many all wheel drive vehicles. They almost never use this test. The slip test is one of the easiest tests for TFL to perform but they don’t use it consistently. They had a Chevrolet Blazer a while back and had a perfect opportunity to test the all wheel drive system, but didn’t.
I can see why some don't like CVT's in Subarus, but I have no problem with mine. Comparing my experience with a regular automatic 4-speed in a previous Subaru I owned, it's really a toss-up as far as I'm concerned.
I work for subaru plant in Lafayette Indiana. Toyota owns 23% of shares in subaru of America. Its joint venture from both companies. We built camrys for them from 2006-2016 at SIA
Most AWD systems today will do this simple test today. One test TFL didn't do was a single rear tire on the ground and the other three on rollers. It slides sideways off rollers and onto roller frame.
Reactive AWD systems like this are decent at getting you up a driveway or moving forward more quickly from a stop but when traveling 60+ MPH down the road they are usually too late to prevent a car from sliding out of control. A full-time AWD system like Subaru uses will help prevent wheel slippage at higher speeds and therefore help prevent loss of control.
Meh, front wheel drive cars are quite stable at high speeds. Unless you’re rallying your car, it should be sufficient. Tires/driver matter much much more at those speeds.
@@johnjordan4726 The beauty of an full-time AWD system (like Subaru) IMHO is the daily driving experience. I can think of a ton of examples/scenarios where I think full-time AWD has advantages. Turning left/right from a stop at an intersection, especially when on wet roads, you have way more control and less chance of slipping/sliding. Even just driving straight on the freeway and hitting a patch of water, since all wheels are getting power you are less likely to lose ability to control your car if you hydroplane (usually not all wheels hydroplane in full-time AWD). It's also easier to tell if you are reaching the limits of the vehicle with full-time AWD, vs the reactive AWD system which is less predictable (i.e. you don't know how it's going to react until after the fact). With full-time AWD you can feel the car's limits in real-time. You also get a more even experience in just overall performance since both the front and rear-wheels are propelling the vehicle forward in a full-time AWD system. Going around corners even on dry pavement is smoother and more controllable. Consider 2 vehicles with exact same power/tq numbers...the full-time AWD is getting the power split evenly (more or less) to all wheels at all times, where as the reactive AWD system is putting all power to the front and only sending to the rear when needed, but this makes it more difficult to anticipate handling in various common driving conditions...also means you are less likely to spin the wheels on full-time AWD vehicle (again, you have more control/traction).
@@slandshark Ehh you can see the rear wheels get power instantly. Its not a full transfer to the wheel with traction though. Acts like an e-diff to say for the current terminology. Subie is not a full time AWD system as you describe it, it still has almost an e-diff quality to it. If it was the older models a la torsen type differential that can lock, then yes, it is purely an active differential because of the worm wheel and worm gear physics. You can also somewhat count clutch pack type in there depending on it's engagement angles, and more of a stretch but the standard bevel gear with high preload. However, you can quickly look at the newer, as in past 6 years or so subies not acting as such. On the corner test, or three wheels on rollers, the opposite side wheel should have zero slip, as one the slip starts, the entire pack should lock together if it is an active differential set up doing a true full time AWD. You can clearly see they do not, and slip, meaning it is a reactive setup. Heck, some of the subies failed the side load and corner test, if not failed, they need significantly more throttle input. Basically all vehicles now though, have reactive systems. Just depends on how the transfer is initially done. Like fluid couplers are common, as well as clutch. Many vehciles now though run open diff, with the brakes handling the differential and locking work. But this car, not for off roading, out did many a vehicle on the roller test, save for the few that have a true locking differential or transfer. If you want predictability, just go RWD, nothing beats that when it comes to knowing what is going on. One set of wheels only provides power, the other steering. Compared to FWD and AWD were they are multi tasking the front.
Actually get a reliable 4wd like a Toyota 4 runner, Tundra and Tacoma. Jeep just built up this idea of being the best offroad vehicle and people think "snow" and "Offroad" is the same thing. But Jeep is just a name now, they're not what they once was, Fiat owns them now and they are junky vehicles. They're more like toys rather than daily drivers. You can't put 20,000 miles a year on those things. I know, I used to own one and it was missfiring at 25,000 miles and the suspension was falling out. And Subaru is dropping in reliability because of the CVTs they use by Jatco. I wouldn't argue with you if they were still using traditional automatics.
Hey Tommy: Have you ever done this test going in reverse? I would be curious to see how well awd drive vehicles work when backing out of situation. I had a Toyota Venza awd, and I don’t think the awd worked very well when I would back into my driveway in the winter.
@@rosscajayon8177 Not a given. The system would need programming to operate in reverse. Vastly different dynamics at play between forward and reverse motion.
There is also the possibility that your tires are directional. Most winter tires are biased to work in the forward rotational direction. It might not be a huge difference, but if makes a difference once or twice, you'd notice.
I really wish the AWD system could handle the V6. I'd love to pick up one of those with AWD. I have a 2015 V6 and it can easily break traction on dry pavement (on new Pirelli rubber no less). In snow the traction control can't even keep the front wheels from spinning if you're careless with the throttle.
Yes that was basically the V6 RAV4 and that is why they are still so sought after today because when you think about it what is it really a V6 all-wheel-drive tall wagon with 300 hp naturally aspirated
@@thetechlibrarianThey're sleepers. I loved my 2010 Sport V6 4WD. I never got stuck in NYC parking spots. Traded for a 2013 Venza Xle AWD V6. Its a bit heavier and maybe. 5 seconds slower to 60 (ive gotten 5.9 in the Rav4 and 6.5 in the Venza) than the Rav but 6spd auto vs 5 spd so around the same mpg for me on the highway and more Luxury features and the best part is the engine bay vs the Rav4 for those that do their own Tune-ups.
Wow. I remember just a few years ago only SH-AWD from Acura and the Subarus and the Porsche AWD could win at the three wheel slip test. Nice to see it coming to the Camry!
No one can embarrass the AWD system of the Subaru. They have been king of driving in the snow, add #1 safety ratings in 2021, it’s the best family vehicle for people who live in cold weather.
That would be cool to overlay other cars doing the slip test. So impressed with the new awd systems that all the companies finally figured out and are using.
i mean this is a great thing if you love the camry and want it awd. but its going to cost 26k minimum I don't think the subaru legacy which is standard awd and starts at 23k is embarrassed
@@marktiny8928 Thanks, the SE model seems like a more sensible option than this over-styled XSE. The FWD Camry achieved quite stunning mpg numbers with Car & Driver getting FORTY-FIVE mpg in their 75 mph test run. So far I have not seen any numbers from the big publications for the new AWD model.
@@rightlanehog3151 honestly the Xse is nice but I only paid 24,500 for the awd se . If I was to spend any more I probably would have gotten the trd Camry.
@@marktiny8928 In its own way, the TRD makes a lot of sense. It would be a very positive development if other makes/models offered more performance and fewer frills for a fair price.
Love the slip tests, they are always so interesting. Some day if you can organize it you guys should do one with the Jeep Cherokees and try to get all three versions of the 4x4 system to compare, it would be cool to see the difference between active drive I, II, and II + lock.
I've never been an AWD or 4WD fan. I've lived in Chicago for more than 50 years in the snow and have never needed either. I've also seen many 4WD and AWD off the road in the snow. I've had many different Cars and SUV's and never had an issue in the snow or rain that couldn't be corrected with proper tires. 1994 Blazer RWD Limited Slip (new) with Uniroyal Tiger Paw Tires. I did donuts in the snow and never had an issue even after 6 years (60K) with the same tires. I only changed them because of little cracks in the tires. 2009 Corolla S (new) with Goodyear Eagles. Drove thru 11" of snow several times without issue. No issues in Rain either until 25k miles, then I replaced the tires. I learned many tires just aren't good in the snow and rain especially after 3-5 K miles. Even some All-Season Tires flop after a while. I've had 3 Vehicles with AWD. 2014 Murano, 2018 Rav4, 2018 Acura RDX (wife's cars). ALL have a firm ride that I hate. My FWD 2004 Sienna Limited has never had an issue in the rain or snow and rides like a dream as did my Blazer, and my Corolla. I'm looking to buy a 2022 Camry XLE, but it won't be AWD. AWD causes many people to ignore their tires and road conditions and trust the AWD. This is not a good thing. I'll pass.
Good review. I think the Camry did really well! But I agree that it would be nice if Toyota had increased the ground clearance. I wonder why manufacturers don't do the same test themselves to test their AWD systems.
I want to see a crossover and roller shoot out going forward and reverse I see cars that claim to be awd but the rear wheels barely do anything and are mostly just spinning front tires
Outlander II AWC, Outlander III AWC, Outlander III S-AWC, Outlander PHEV S-AWC, Outlander Sport (ASX) AWC, Eclipse Cross S-AWC, Lancer Evo X S-AWC, Lancer Ralliart... Is that enough? 🙂
This is cool to see. I once got an almighty Land Cruiser stuck in my own driveway in a diagonal slip situation, even with the center differential locked.
Looks to me like you’re getting some friction on the rollers when you rev the engine up. The little bearings in the rollers can’t keep up with the vehicle wheel speed and provide just enough friction to get the car moving. As a mitigation to the above, you could do these tests on an incline...this would test whether you’re really getting meaningful power to the (non roller) wheels.
Thank you Tommy for doing this test for me. I really appreciate your honesty that you believe that the car slipped off the rollers on the test. But I am confident knowing I bought a good enough car for the snowy winters. A safe and reliable car at that.
I think it did excellent. As much as I love Toyotas, I was not expecting it to do well on the slip test. Seeing this test, I am sure that in snowy condition and with winter tires, it will perform with confidence. The only thing I will change are those very tin tires. It seem that Toyota is not only prioritizing fuel efficiency and reliability, but incrementally adding performance and style, and we can see that in this Camry, the RAV4 Hybrid and RAV4 Hybrid Prim, sienna and Highlander . I will leave the new Supra out since, I do not consider it a pure Toyota or pure Supra with 100% Supra/Toyota DNA, but it is BMW/Toyota. I still love their approach of being conservatives and doing things incrementally, which I think play a roll in Toyota reliability.
I have an SE AWD and I believe the diameter of the tires is the same with the 18" wheels. There isn't a lot of clearance in there for snow pack but I haven't had any trouble. The AWD system works great for roads. I don't know that it is ultimately as good as a Subi in more harsh terrain but I don't need that. Overall I'm quite impressed with the Camry AWD. I do run Blizzaks in the winter and the car is very confident in snow and ice.
While that Camry was thinking about what to do to get itself off the rollers, the Subaru was already off in record time, turning around and saying" come-on little guy! You can do it !" Lol. No comparison to the Subaru symmetrical AWD system.
i'm surprised the awd took so long to kick in. I can see getting into a lot of trouble at even 30 mph before the awd starts to help. Or is the awd 's main feature getting going in snow, with no thought to handling?
Thank you. Excellent review/report. It was good to visually see how an AWD system actually works. You read, hear and even drive these sort of vehicles but never really get a good visual until now.
I live in the mountains of BC. We get SNOW. With my Honda Fit. I've probably been stuck once due to not enough ground clearance. Rest is always traction. Honestly, it's not as big as a deal that most tend to make it
You have touched upon a very important point which is the vehicle's clearance from the ground ... I don’t know where the benefit of four-wheel drive would be without good clearance to face harsh environments.
So it takes several seconds for the system to figure it out, how would would that work in an emergency situation? It will be thinking about it while the ditch gets ever closer.
It wouldn’t need to. Presumably you are talking about a vehicle moving at speed? If so, all 4 wheels will be rotating and so there is nothing for the system to figure out.
It would be interesting to carry out these tests on an inclined surface. It would simulate what it would be like to walk on a sloping street with low grip. The Teknikens Värld channel's media has already conducted tests like this.
A test you may want to include in the future is have all four wheels on rollers. The purpose whould be to time the system's response (for vehicles without a locking centre differential and independent rear axle drive)
Really happy with my 2020 Camry SE Nightshade. I've owned it 6 months and already got 20,000 miles on it highway and city driving, putting it through the abuse of pizza delivery and it's still brand new. My Job broke 2 chrysler products with in months and a few thousand miles. I learned my lesson.
I enjoy the test, but why don’t you put a camera behind the rear tire on the rollers to confirm if it actually is sliding to the side, thus, using the bracket to grab and help it move off the rollers? It looks as if it slides a bit to the wheel off the brackets a bit, so why don’t compensate by moving the roller as far to the inside as possible, not centering, to possibly avoid wheel touch with the bracket?....just a thought....fun to watch anyway, good stuff.
