Don't ask St. Louis to pay for a stadium ever again. They're pissed because they got stuck paying for the Dome until just a few years ago. The owners should just pay for it themselves.
@@davidlafleche1142 the Dome could use a few renovations like new turf (which they're getting) and new video boards but other than that it's not nearly as bad as people think. I was at the BattleHawks home opener and it was fine.
@Azeria - the city _should_ be able to stand in line to receive profits into its coffers from the revenue stream - and I don't just mean via taxes. I mean, share-holdership.
As a St Louisan, the renovation is not what is causing attendance issues...it's the piss poor front office who have done so little in terms of talent evaluation, talent development, and coaching at the MLB level. They've lost their way since LaRussa left.
They would be on a good track with Shildt but he doesn't fall into the "Cardinal way" as I've been hearing, he wanted the Dewitt's to spend which apparently isn't their prerogative anymore clearly.
im a cubs fan and ive been saying for 3 years they need to fire Moz. Yet, year after year they stick with him. Thats good for me but its tough to watch.
St. Louisan here to speak, owners need to pay for their own stadium without public money 💰, plus Busch Stadium doesn’t need a renovation, it is a no doubt top 10 ballpark, and top 5 on my list (should be on any MLB fan’s bucket list)
yeah, not too shocking that there wasn't that many people there in the seventh. Unless a game is really close I'll usually leave in the 7-8th inning anyways.
Being here in St. Louis, this is a trash ask of the community. The stadium is fine. I was at opening day in 2006, first game in this stadium and was last in it for a playoff game I'm 2022 and it looks as good now as it does then. The ballpark village is fine, the entire complex is fine. The problem with cards is poor talent evaluation when it comes to pitching, poor head coaching and bad player selection when it comes to free agency. Folks around here have started creating list of players who were traded in trades to get "better players", and those guys turn out to stars.. we could probably field an entire team with those players..
You absolutely nailed it!! I'm convinced Mo has a mission to destroy this organization and cash out at the same time. He might as well run for US president next
@manatarmsslaps no doubt. They have put so much red tape around these people, and of course, all the unions making it where you can't touch these people, no matter how big of scumbags they are. From managers to umpires. Hell an umpire can completely destroy a players career if they wanted to with no consequences. Angel Hernandez is a prime example. The guy is clearly betting and deciding outcomes, but nobody can touch him.
@davidlafleche1142 Angel Hernandez IS bad publicity. But even bad publicity is good to these people. Angel even tried to sue the MLB for race discrimination because they won't give him any championship games to officiate. Which he lost because he's just absolute trash at his job but still can't fire him
They just built this fucking thing what’s wrong with it it’s a gorgeous ballpark…if it’s minor upgrades I get it but holy shit how do they need a $600M renovation already
It doesn't help that the downtown is on life support. The tallest building in the city has been vacant for 5 years, as well as several other iconic landmark buildings. Downtown St Louis looks more like East St Louis.
You should have mentioned that it was also on a school night as schools are still in session. The Cardinals draw heavily on families and it’s tough to justify going to a baseball game on weeknight when school is in session, even with the shorter game times.
3 sure things in life : -death -taxes -Cardinals draw 30k or more for a home game. MLB as a whole will be in trouble if STL fans get mad and stop showing up.
I was sadly at that game, it was a Monday, rainy all day, and a 14-1 game. No one is staying for that. On the other hand the cardinals ownership needs to wake tf up. Cardinals fans are absolutely right for not wanting to watch them. Then he wants 600 million dollars from them😂 what a joke
St Louis itself is a hellhole. Who in their right mind would want to go. My wife is from MO. Went there once. Parked in a ramp. Walked in elevator and homeless dude standing there taking a piss. Never again.
Just look at what Stan Kroenke and the NFL did to St. Louis with the public funded 20 year old Dome wanting to move for the large TV market of L.A. and the NFL did not even award an expansion team when STL was ready to build again with the hotel and entertainment tax not requiring voter approval. I think a much better owner group would have been found for an expansion team. Good thing the UFL Battlehawks are supported well there now. I hope there willl never again be public funding for STL sports teams since St. Louis has far more important needs. The Cardinals need to follow the model of the owners of the new soccer team and privately fund only. If necessary, then raise ticket prices. It sounds like the Cardinals want all of the Rams lawsuit money. Very selfish.
“Renovations” is what MLB calls it. I saw its “papering over losses and financial problems”. They just want “free” taxpayer money, so they don’t have to pay for maintenance and up keep.
Not really sure what to renovation plans are for that park. It’s still a beautiful park that is well kept. Renovations to the bathrooms and concession stands can’t possibly cost a half billion. Their all inclusive suites I’ve gone to are all good. Either way asking for money when you’ve proven you can’t appropriately allocate your funds to the on field product..you can F right off. They spend in the top 10-15 annually but it’s all subpar contracts that produce average results in an attempt to win a below average division and call it an organization of “winning excellence”. No that’s not a winning organization. St Louis expects World Championships not first round exits.
The biggest problem with the Cardinals is the owners of the team, the Dimwits who are the third richest owners in baseball worth nearly 4 billion dollars. Yet they don't invest back into the team, they cry they're a small market team yet they only sell less tickets to the dodgers who are number one in ticket sales. Ifind it ridiculous and pitiful by my standards as a Cardinals fan, so till they put a quality product on the field I'll watch it on the TV where I can turn it off when it's bad. I wouldnt go for free to watch this team struggle.
I am of the opinion the Dewitt's are gearing up to sell the team. There are parallels to the early 90s when the Busch family lost interest in the team. They have put zero effort or money into improving the team. They have done a putrid job of fan relations. They keep putting a sub par product on the field while asking for patience and charging $15 for a hot dog. The point the team went down hill was when Schildt was fired. Marmol is a yes man to Mozeliak and can't manage his way out of a wet paper bag. Mozeliak benefited by being on the coat tail of Walt Jocketty but has fell on his face since he had to actually build a team. The city is fed up with the management and lack of production. They keep rolling out the same sub par talent and expecting 40,000 people a night. Also, the stadium is in great shape. The upgrades make no sense.
I don’t think selling the Cardinals has even crossed Bill Dewitt Jr’s mind. His family has been in baseball for his entire life. Bill Dewitt Sr. was part owner of the St. Louis Browns before selling his portion to Bill Veck to buy the Cincinnati Reds. Have you heard of Eddie Goddell? He wore Bill Dewitt Jr’s uniform in his famous AB as a Brownie. There is a lot of history with the Dewitt’s and baseball in St. Louis.
Hell no! Slap some paint on it if that's needed here and there. But no scoreboards or locker rooms or anything else. This place is only 20 years old. Taxpayers should only be asked for money every 50 years at minimum. The DeWitts, owners of the team, sold real estate they owned around the stadium downtown for multi-millions of dollars. They have the money to do renovations, without getting taxpayers involved. Btw, StL attendance is so high because season ticket sales are included in the attendance for each game, even when that seat is empty. However, the team is so bad, those season ticket sales will soon fall.
CITY officials should DEMAND that taxpayers be offered a 'SHARE' in the stock in team ownership if they need to help fund a new stadium. That's what Las Vegas should have done with the A's.
Been a cards fan all my life and have gone to both old Busch and the new one many times each year. I don't know what could justify being renovated. The stadium is great, not even 20 years old yet; and the ballpark village is awesome, turning 10 this year. As far as attendance goes it's not bad, it's only bad in comparison to the last several years. The team has not only been seen the postseason consistently but have been WS contenders plenty of times over the last 20 years. This is just coming off the worst season in a long time along with the growing pains of losing the faces of the franchise, Yadi and Waino. They'll bounce back pretty quick
Cardinals fans like myself would probably be a lot more open to helping pay for this stadium renovation if ownership spent just a little more and tried a little harder. It’s a slap in the face when 3M+ pack that stadium every year and ownership commits to signing over-the-hill players and legacy players way past their prime instead of legit talent. Ownership wants US fans to pay the massive price while they refuse to help fans and spend any money at all for a quality product on the field. If they were still ran like they were 2009-2015, we’d have less of an issue paying the price.
The only thing that Busch Stadium really lacks that would put it over the top is a 360° view of the field from the concourses. You can only see the field from a few different spots in both the upper and lower concourse. If they were to change that I would think it would greatly alter the exterior look of the Stadium for the worse and I’m not sure fans will think it was worth $600 million to be able to see a 100 yard away view of the field while standing in line for a beer.
With Bailey Sports going under the ownership decided to fleece the city while they can. I bet most of the money ends up in the owners pocket before he sells the team. Baseball screwed because its owners are greed, shortsighted, ignorant and in some cases flat out stupid.
The problem is not so much the Cardinals. Its MLB being so out of touch with reality. They have become so beyond woke that without all of the woke corporations plastered throughout all of the MLB stadiums, the league would barely exist. This is a subject for another video, but put up a poll for Cardinals fans only and ask Should the Cardinals sign Trevor' Bauer? I would say the majority would want him signed immediately at the league minimum because after Sonny Gray, their pitching is suspect. But, MLB is so woke that Trevor Bauer will never pitch in the MLB again. Give the fans what they want, not what all of the woke owners think what is good for them.
I think the cardinals are pulling what the blues did back in 2017-2018. It was a whole building renovation including new seats, a jumbotron, and new sound systems and more. This feels like they want to finish building phase 3 like they promised. Once the construction is complete then ownership will focus back into baseball operations to get the 13th world series. In other words, fix up your home then win a championship. Seems to be a theme here in modern sports in st.louis. I can see people outside of st louis being confused but dewitt promised phase 1 to 3 would be built with the intention of rebuilding busch in 2006. Now the timing for such renovation... Is questionable.
I have been to several games in the last few years and watch every game on TV. They may sell 30,000 tickets but several of the games have had the seats about half empty the last 12 games. That’s a lot of beer and hot dogs they aren’t selling along with other merchandise.
It's about the product on the field for the last several years being underperforming and the Cardinal Brass making penny pinching moves and thinking their fans are stupid. As far as St. Louis being just like every other town in terms of supporting baseball, well, you are just flat wrong. There is a reason that Bally's is still paying the cardinals for the TV rights as they tell most other teams to pound sand. Get a clue.
As a Cubs fan, I hate the Cardinals. But it’s a great franchise with a great fanbase. As the Patriots proved, every team will eventually come back down to earth. The Cards will survive.
If your team is losing 14-1 in the 7th, of course the stadium will be mostly empty. Now, if it looks that way in the third inning of a tie game, then there is a problem. The stadium isn't old enough to need a major renovation, and even if it did, the billionaires that own the team need to pay FOR IT THEMSELVES. What we have here is MLB/Rob Manfraud wanting teams to squeeze cities/states for that government tax money
Two things can be true at once 1. Taxpayers shouldn't have to fund renovations like this 2. St. Louis shouldn't get credit for solid attendance in an era where there have been only a few losing seasons prior to this current year The attendance numbers will be fine because most of the tickets are already sold but won't be surprised if there are more empty seats from fans not showing up If the team continues to struggle.
It is more than that however. The front office is getting left behind and the President of Baseball Operations, Mozeliak, talks down to the fanbase and then fails in his assessment of talent, unless someone is giving away Goldschmidt or Arenado.
They're drawing 3 million people virtually every year.
6 месяцев назад
Baseball is a very boring sport that's been overtaken by foreigners and it's only a matter of time before the traditional fan base rejects it and this could be occurring as I predicted in St Louis who wants to watch all Asians and Latinos not many people in Missouri
Most of the people who go to Cardinals games don't live in the city, they live in mid county, south county, west county and the Metro east. Now without that population, Busch Stadium would equal Oakland's baseball attendance.
They are averaging 37, 244 per home game this season already, they are in 6th place for attendance right now. They had crowds of 40, 000 to 43,000 already this year. You can see the attendance in the box score after each game. They don't have a very big metro population either about 2.2 Mil.
Those attendance numbers are almost always pure lies. They go off of tickets sold and then call it “attendance”. They announced 35,000 were at a game last week when it was probably 10,000 or less.
70% of Cardinals tickets for the entire season are sold before opening day. As you said, this photo was late in a 14-1 loss. Nobody stays late to see their team getting destroyed. MLB used to report both ticket sales and attendance. Not they only report sales. They don't want people to know how many people don't show up. The Dodgers always lead in sales because they have a huge stadium, and most of their sales are season tickets to Hollywood and the tech companies. But typically, the Cardinals would have more butts in seats. Yes, that falls off when your team has two seasons when they are below 500, but if you look at the crowds in the third inning, they're mostly full and the new stadium (Busch 3) has about 10,000 seats less than Busch 2. The Cardinals own this stadium and ballpark village, not the city. After the fiasco with the Rams, don't expect taxpayers to vote for something like this again. Particularly when you're not putting a winning team on the field. DeWitt has already backed off asking the city for the money in public statements. We'll see what happens.
Colossal gall! What on earth would make Cardinals' ownership think the taxpayers of St. Louis would agree to this? If the franchise did succeed in relocation to a city that would build them a state of the art stadium (which I highly doubt), other established franchises would jump right into that proven market with no demands. The Royals, Pirates, Indians, Rays would love to average 37K. Maybe the Royals could split their home games between St. Louis and K.C.
I am a lifelong Cards fan and I disagree that they are “solid”. They lost 92 games last year and finished in last place for the first time since 1990. This season is not off to a stellar start either.
Yo Cardinals are in the best division in baseball ⚾️ and they just are not a good team ... Cubs win this year be on a lookout for the Cubs next few years !!! The Chiefs will never move to Kansas cause there isn't much Kansas city in Kansas because it's all on the Missouri side ..
for context, it was a midweek game and the Cards lost that game 14- 1 yes people are uninterested in that night but however, we won that Seires with the D-Backs off a walk off the night before and win the next day, but yes, renovations are unnecessary
St. Louis fans have finally hit the breaking point where no longer they view ownership as sunshine and rainbows. There's structurally a lot of problems with the franchise to the point one wonders if ownership is looking to sell the franchise. It's not because they're a middling .500 team why people aren't showing up; it's how they got there. Stupid things like extending an incompetent manager to a long term contract after one of the worst seasons in Cardinals history without any real, logical explanation from management rubbed A LOT of people the wrong way. If management treats the fan base like fools, the fans have every right to vote with their wallet and show management are fools. From top to bottom the Cardinals are in the worst state they've been in since the early 90's. It's really f'ing sad. A flagship organization ruined by egomaniacs at the front office. The "very strange ask" you bring up is why I feel strong selling vibes from ownership. There's a lot of things in recent years that haven't made sense unless it's for the purpose to sell the team.
6 месяцев назад
Baseball and all professional sports is going to get its Reckoning as they have paid these athletes too much and passed it on to the consumer and produce more and more boring garbage and band rule changes that are alienating the American fan
Leave it to Card fans to the ball game to see a crappy team 😢last year and this year again, a last place Cardinals team. Must be nothing to in St Louis
Can't compare public support for MLB and NFL. The public is willing to fund football but not baseball. Nashville promised that if the public funded the Titans the public would not be asked to fund a MLB stadium.
