Cartridges and Pins - Hidden Famicom Converters in NES Games |

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Were Famicom converters really hidden in commercially-sold NES games? It's true.
We talk about the pin differences between Famicom and NES carts, Nintendo's big plans for an unreleased NES add-on, and its unintended consequences for compatibility with the Famicom!
Also, did you know the NES had a lockout chip? Where did you think the blinking power light came from? (Thanks, 10-NES!)
See more about these built-in cartridge converters at Famicom World:
famicomworld.com/workshop/arti...
**Thanks everyone for your name suggestions. We've settled on Denshimail. Check 'em out!: ru-vid.com_play_list... **
See more at FamicomDojo.TV:
famicomdojo.tv/season1/cartrid...
Follow Famicom Dojo:
• Subscribe: / famicomdojo
• Podcast: itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/f...
• Facebook: / famicomdojo
• Twitter: / famicomdojo
• Instagram: / famicomdojo
• Website: famicomdojo.tv
SeanOrange is a retro game fan from the US. Vinnk is a retro import fan who took things one step further and moved to Japan. Together they make Famicom Dojo: a web series dedicated exploring the Japanese history of video games and consoles from the other side of the Pacific.
#NES #RetroGames #FamicomDojo

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Опубликовано:

23 апр 2008

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Комментарии : 199

@breck8668 7 лет назад

So if you had an nes to famicom adapter and a copy of gyromite, you would have a famicom game, connected to a famicom to nes adapter, connected to an nes to a famicom adapter? I JUST CONFUSED MYSELF

@emptyspotlight 3 года назад

Basically... Took me awhile to understand that

@TheDemoniusX 10 лет назад

How come there isn't more Famicom dojo.It's a cool show.

@SeanOrange 8 лет назад

ru-vid.com

@shon76 7 лет назад

I did this back in the day when I got the yellow Super Mario 3 For Famicom. I forgot who told me about this back then. Wasn't no internet or google back when I was in the 8th grade.

@SeanOrange 15 лет назад

We're going to start up a mailbag segment, and that is going to be one of the questions we will investigate and answer. Short verion: you just won't hear anything, since there's no circuit to the sound board. But we want to actually verify that experimentally.

@TBustah 10 лет назад

4:52 Atari/Tengen didn't reverse engineer it. They tried to, but failed, and ended up resorting to lying to the patent office in order to get the schematics for the chip so they could get around it.

@xbuster3 11 лет назад

i gotta thank you for the video. i luckily found a copy of gyromite with the converter because of this video

@shorty1k 16 лет назад

I have that very Gyromite! I bought it JUST because I heard about this. Man I'm so glad to see a new FD! Very educational! I love it as usual!

@vegetafan9922 4 года назад

"Before CDs were used, Cartridges were the defacto standard for video game consoles" Nintendo Switch:"Oh, Ye of little faith."

@reyesh 16 лет назад

another good episode, thanks for making them.

@therealhardrock 15 лет назад

I've found that the graphical mess-ups in NES games are usually caused by the pins being slightly misaligned with the connector and that jiggling the cartridge around can make them go away. Also many of the used games that I've bought have been glitchy at first, but the longer they stay working normally, the more they do so.

@Malmern 13 лет назад

Does that mean that if you have a game with a built in adapter, you could play any Famicom game on your NES, just plug the Japanese game into the adapter?

@SeanOrange 15 лет назад

It was an expansion port meant for the US version of the Disk System. The sound expansion pins are routed through that port -- theoretically so that the add-on could supply one sound chip for any game that wanted to use it. But since an expansion port was never released, we'll never know for sure. Either way, the spec for the NES cartridge pins eliminated the sound expansion passthrough that the Famicom had.

@videogameobsession 14 лет назад

Great job on this video. :) Very professionally done and thoroughly entertaining from beginning to end. I have seen some episodes in the past, but for one reason or another I forgot to subscribe.. Not this time! SUBSCRIBED + ***** RATING! I love the music in Gyromite, as well as most "Black Box" games. They were able to take such a limited sound system and create unforgettable tunes. Now that I have completed my boxed BB collection, I really want to start collecting Famicom stuff. Any tips?

@SeanOrange 16 лет назад

Thanks! Phil's around somewhere. I'm going to try to get him involved in more Famicom Dojo stuff if I can manage it. I know Vinnk wants to do a bit on the Famicom Robot (Japanese ROB), so a cameo by Phil would be more than appropriate!

@Coderjo. 7 лет назад

An FDS for the NES would have still required a cart, since the expansion port did not have most of the CPU address pins nor any of the PPU bus pins. As a result, a cart with RAM in it would need to be inserted to provide the data to the CPU and PPU.

@SeanOrange 14 лет назад

@1soniccool Thanks for the suggestion, but as this video was made two years ago we already have settled on a name: Denshimail. We have six of them up already: check 'em out! ;)

@SeanOrange 12 лет назад

@mjkl131 Yes, with an adapter. Although any cartidges that have a built-in sound expansion will not have sound, since those pins are not used in the NES cartridge slot.

@SeanOrange 15 лет назад

:O Denshimeiru. I am so dense! That has a nice ring to it.

@SeanOrange 13 лет назад

@Malmern Yes, BUT: 1) You would need a toploader NES or jury-rig a ribbon or some other method to pull the whole thing out of your "toaster" NES 2) Any games with expanded sound capabilities would (probably) work for the most part, but you would not hear any sounds that would have come over the extra sound channel. The NES has the capability, but isn't properly wired to use it.

@SeanOrange 15 лет назад

I think the video pretty well explained it, but to reiterate: they were probably thinking that when they released the Disk System in the US that all future NES cartridge games could also use the Disk System's sound chip -- since it would be attached to the console and never have to be removed. Alas, the system never came out, and the design decision made the sound expansion option unusable.

@homestar92 12 лет назад

Using a hacksaw, I fashioned myself a Gyromite-based Famicom adapter that works in the Toaster NES.

@advancegrant 16 лет назад

Great video!

@smerk429 4 года назад

HI. THANK U FOR UR HARD WORK. ARE THERE ANY 3 SCREW NES GAMES THAT HAVE A FAMICOM CARTRIDGE ADAPTER IN THEM? MAYBE SUCH AS THE COMMON 5'S LIKE THE 2 DONKEY KONG CARTS? THANX ANYBODY KNOWLEDGABLE PLEASE REPLY SOON.

@barbararuff4507 7 лет назад

actually the PCE/TurboGrafix 16 used a very similar technology for the game cards (i cant remember their name)

@linkthewarrior 16 лет назад

Yay it's back!

@SeanOrange 16 лет назад

That's probably something I should have mentioned in the video, but didn't. We plan on doing a piece on the Sharp Twin Famicom at some point, so we'll be able to cover it there, I think.

@krich451 12 лет назад

i like the bushido blade sound effects

@SeanOrange 16 лет назад

No worries. The first video is called "Last Supper". There are like seven more after that, and they're all video responses to each other so they shouldn't be hard to find.

@SeanOrange 15 лет назад

Through the magic of television. Ho-HO!

@skyrunner14 15 лет назад

Yay! My Famicom finally came in today! It's beside me now. Too bad I have no games. :-(

@shMouse 16 лет назад

I love that Famicom and Nes, always makes me laugh. Do they have their own show ?

@SeanOrange 16 лет назад

Alrighty, voice of authority. This will make a great mailbag!

@Seafoamgaming 7 лет назад

I remember watching this in 2012 and finding the channel that way. Bought a $30 Gyromite with the converter inside and tried to play JPN FINAL FANTASY II on my NES. It worked fine but I was only able to make it half-way through the game before enemies OHKO'd me (and the lack of save points drove me insane). Then both the game and converter were left at my Aunt's ex's place when they broke up so I've been trying to get them back since 2014 to no avail. D: One day I'll get them back... So i can import famicom games. I'll stick to the PSONE Version of FF2 since I'm closer to beating that.

@SeanOrange 6 лет назад

If you can make it to a trade show sometime, or an expo like Midwest Gaming Classic, you can usually pick one up for the right price! That’s how I got my copies of Hogan’s Alley and, uh, I forget what else. I was just lucky with my copy of Gyromite - it was the same one I had sinceI was a kid.

@pepsiru1es92 15 лет назад

ive heard of stack up, duck hunt and hogan's alley possibly having them. i found one in gyromite

@SeanOrange 14 лет назад

@mexicanwaluigi The picture was from inside a Famicom cartridge. I don't have a US one handy to compare, but it didn't have the chip, thanks to the aforementioned wiring. Someone would have to rig up a decent adapter that sent a Famicom cart's sound expansion pins to the NES expansion port, and then another one to wire up the expansion port input to the expansion pins leading into the main NES hardware. It'd be a purely academic exercise, though; you might as well just get a Famicom!

@therealhardrock 16 лет назад

The size of the circuit boards clearly shows that the cartridges are much larger than they need to be.

@Dant2142 14 лет назад

@SeanOrange I meant third-party developed, Nintendo did try with both Philips and Sony for the CD addon for the SNES/SFC, but that was in the '90s Of course there is the Sharp Twin Famicom I forgot about...

@mexicanwaluigi 14 лет назад

@SeanOrange yeah i was wondering the same thing if they were planning an add-on like a fm sound unit like sega did with the sega mark iii. I mean nintendo's not really shy when it comes to add-ons but there were a lot of third party mmc's so I can kinda see where it would get very messy and would've probably required a lot of reprogram in the games.

@DAS64 16 лет назад

Thats cool! What if I'm in a pawn shop, and I see a stack up of Gyromite carts. how do I tell which ones has the region adepter?

@slyther2 14 лет назад

@SeanOrange some of my famicom carts dont save well. I dont see any kind of replacable batteyr on them? How can I replace the battery?

@SeanOrange 13 лет назад

@ultrasuperman99 It's only specific games, and only ones released early in the NES life cycle. There are a few ways to tell if a cart has one -- the number of screws and their arrangement, a "Rev-A" on the label, and so forth.

@SeanOrange 16 лет назад

Not every copy does. There might be sites that tell you how to determine this from external clues. One of them is the balance test (if it balances near the pins, it's probably an adapter). I'm not entirely sure why they did it in the first place, nor when they ultimately switched.

@SeanOrange 14 лет назад

@Riddler95 You could do it with a toploader (aka the NES 2), but 1) you'd need a converter for the pins, and 2) due to the design, anything that uses the extra sound channels will be inaudible. Technically the NES has the same sound expansion cababilities as the Famicom, but due to the pin design it would take some fancy soldering from the cart (or RAM cartridge) to route the signal to the correct place. So: yes, but there'd be no point other than academic. Get a Famicom!

@ploomit 16 лет назад

Hey I just saw your video of you and vinnk in japan on the powet forums. Are you like living there or is it like a trip.

@SeanOrange 12 лет назад

"Look like"? That Famicom is a highly-trained (and low-paid) actor! XD Trade secret. :P

@jonathannintendonerd 14 лет назад

@SeanOrange Yeah thanks for the info I was curios as to why they dropped support for third party chips, and why Nintendo's MMC's were very limited in sound. Oh and I think there were at least two chips that supported FM Synthesis Konami's VRC7 and I think Sunsoft's FME-7. I swear the VRC7 sounds like a 16bit system.

@SeanOrange 16 лет назад

It's the Famicom Mini version of Zelda II -- I'd used the clip before in the Battery Backup episode. I probably should have used a new clip, but I was feeling lazy. :p

@mexicanwaluigi 14 лет назад

5:50 forgive me if someone already mentioned this and I may be wrong, if you plug in a famicom game that has a mmc for sound you probably won't hear the enhancement because of the wiring, however American NES titles did support sound enhancements (I don't believe it is "FM synthesis") such as Nintendo's own line of MMC chips. Your picture of the inside of a castlevania 3 game shows a third party MMC, Nintendo banned third party chips in American titles.

@drchipohpoh 16 лет назад

what other NES games do you know of that have that converter inside of them?

@johneymute 15 лет назад

that,s interresting, that 10 more pins on nes cartrides were added for direct connection witn the expension port on the bottum from the nes,it may could even use the external soundpins that way.since the external soundpins were moved to the expansion port,but despite it was sated that no nes games could make use of it,unlike famicom games,why???

@SeanOrange 15 лет назад

I've not tried the Game Genie solution, so I can't speak to it. Looking at the console from the front inside of the cartridge slot you will see two bit of plastic jutting out which fit into notches in the back of the cartridge. Remove these tabs with needle-nose pliers, some cutting tool, or something. Just make sure they're all gone. Super Famicom cartridges don't have the notches, but once the obstruction is gone they slip into the slot and play just fine.

@spidermcgavenport8767 6 лет назад

Only issues I've found for Nes compatibility is the toploader doesn't play Tengen Gauntlet etc. Lockout chip won't work after Atari stole the patents of the lockout chip to bypass that implementation. But just completely copied the code instead of reverse engineering the code on lockout chips.

@ionlyuseblade9947 6 лет назад

Could I play a Koei games (Genghis Khan or Nobunaga’s Ambition) for Famicom games on NES with 60 to 72 pin converter?

@SeanOrange 6 лет назад

I would expect so!

@ionlyuseblade9947 6 лет назад

SeanOrange Never mind it worked! Thank you!

@therealhardrock 15 лет назад

How did you make the TV go up and down with you anyway?

@therealhardrock 13 лет назад

Could you explain to the AVGN why Gyromite says "Robot Gyro" on the title screen?

@SeanOrange 11 лет назад

Theoretically, although the FM Synthesis sound won't work. It's something we want to try out.

@Ace9921 16 лет назад

Hey, how's this for the new name to replace Dojo Mailbag: The Dojo Q & A?

@SeanOrange 13 лет назад

@MrHossCartwright No, right. They are region-free with respect to NTSC versions, although there's still the issue of the plastic in the way. That is easily removed with the proper screwdriver. Or a drummel.

@therealhardrock 16 лет назад

Here's another interesting note: using a Game Genie bends the pin connectors in the NES to make it work without puhsing it down, so much so that after it's been there for a long time, games no longer work normally and have to be used with the Game Genie. I've come up with an interesting way of taking cartridges in and out without removing the game genie, thus eliminating the need to push the games down and effectively making the game genie a permanent part of the system.

@ploomit 16 лет назад

I'll check that out

@petroklaxis 6 лет назад

ok...you need to cover the color tv-game systems... like ASAP.

@SeanOrange 6 лет назад

TNTJones We accept donations of old consoles and games! ;)

@armankordi 12 лет назад

The super FX Chip on SNES Overclocks the SNES's 16 bit Processor.

@fromthedepthsofreddit278 8 лет назад

can you make repro carts with the adapter if a old game has it

@SeanOrange 6 лет назад

I should expect so!

@a4finger 16 лет назад

good stuff

@GeoGrig 8 лет назад

that yellling sound at 0:18 was from a disco song from the 80's ... can someone remind me which one it is?

@SeanOrange 6 лет назад

CORRECT.

@samhagberg123 5 лет назад

It's rewind time

@SeanOrange 14 лет назад

@slyther2 It's not really possible without snapping the tabs that hold the cartridge together. I imagine that Nintendo has (or had) a special tool to do that, but they're really not designed to ever come apart again.

@SeanOrange 13 лет назад

@MrHossCartwright I'm not an electrical engineer, but if the pins on the cart are different than in the US or Japan it could have made a circuit somewhere it shouldn't have, and POOF! I don't know if that's something that typically happens with NTSC/PAL cross-compatibility, or if there was some other mitigating factor in this case.

@SeanOrange 13 лет назад

@crazedgunmanvideo I have. I'll even send you a video of what spurred the change! ;)

@skyrunner14 16 лет назад

Now THIS is more like it. Keep the show like this from now on. ...Please?

@GeniusRKO39 13 лет назад

@SeanOrange Does famicom boards really work on famicom without the case? (as shown in this video) reply

@hansweiss469 6 лет назад

Yes, they do.

@SeanOrange 11 лет назад

Yup, heard that before. Zach Braff too. Heck, I make reference to both in the WTF Zach Braff video! Here, I'll send it to you...

@SeanOrange 13 лет назад

@squidgibin In theory. I haven't had occasion to try it, and I'm not sure why you'd want to: it's much easier to locate a Famicom or Twin.

@DjStiv3 13 лет назад

@SeanOrange well if theres a worthwhile one i dont wanna miss it lol i didnt read many anyway but i liked how informative it was,,also for a while i was thinking like wtf thats 74 yu have yur math wrong an then yu explained evrything lol pretty nice vid

@SeanOrange 14 лет назад

@slyther2 It requires a little bit of solder and a lot of patience. I don't really recommend it -- might as well just get a new one! The moment you disconnect the old battery, all the saves are lost anyway.

@SeanOrange 14 лет назад

@Dant2142 Except the '80s Nintendo DID totally go for it with the Famicom Disk System. The '90s Nintendo went for it in the form of developing the (failed) CD-ROM add-on, the Satellaview for SNES, and the 64DD for the N64. None of those every made it state-side, but we did finally see some add-ons here in the '00s with the broadband adapter and Game Boy Player for the GameCube. Nintendo isn't add-on adverse, but they do tend to quickly lose faith in them after release.

@SeanOrange 13 лет назад

@GeniusRKO39 Yeah, there's no reason why it wouldn't. The case is just plastic, nonconducting, and doesn't really serve a function (for the game itself, anyway) other than to protect the board from the wear and tear of inserting and removing it over and over. Imagine what would happen over time if dust, fingerprints, and who knows what else (a soda spill? cigarette smoke?) were allowed to cake onto the board!

@SeanOrange 14 лет назад

Ding ding ding! Although it would be much easier on a toploader.

@Lilithe 7 лет назад

Any idea if the original Dragon Quest used a sound chip? I bought one of those portable FC clones and the sound is... quite odd. :D v=e0v4WnebROg

@SeanOrange 15 лет назад

Hahaha, same reply to the Battletoads comment!

@SeanOrange 14 лет назад

Awesome! Thanks so much. I hope you're looking forward to Season 2, and checking out the Denshimail segments in the mean time. There's a thread for collecting Famicom games over at RisingStuff(dot)com in the Famicom Dojo section -- I highly recommend checking it out! ;) First tip: get a Famicom! The debate rages one as to whether buying the standalone Famicom and Disk System is better than the Twin. It partly depends on how you feel about Coax versus RCA.

@Rakshasa1986 14 лет назад

@slyther2 I wouldn't recomment that you open your cartridge since cartridges are no longer being manufactured (except for DS).

@SeanOrange 14 лет назад

@mexicanwaluigi Agreed, although I kinda think I see where they were going with it. Why make developers put their sound chips on carts when they could all interface with something in the expansion port -- but it the (never-developed) US version of the Disk System, or some other cheap-ish add-on companies like Konami could have produced? I think they were also surprised by how fast the technology moved, and just never implemented the other part of their State-side plan.

@SeanOrange 14 лет назад

@Dant2142 Ahaha, yes, you make a good point.

@therealhardrock 16 лет назад

Do you know of any dongles that can make Famicom games work on the NES without dissecting a cartridge?

@SeanOrange 16 лет назад

You can check the labels for differences, or the center of balance. There are ways, but I don't really know for sure. Google it! :p

@ploomit 16 лет назад

Also what happened to philbond I loved his rob and his elite beat agents review I saw you in that one and that is why i saw your videos and your famicom dojo was great so I subscribed to u

@SeanOrange 14 лет назад

Well, yeah, I mean that's how the cartridge works all the time anyway. The adapter isn't exactly designed to work with a Famicom cart though -- you'd have to take the chipset out of the plastic case, and that's not easy to do without breaking off tabs and ensuring it'll never to back together again. There are after-market devices for that sort of thing. All unlicensed, of course. But why do that when you can just play it on a Famicom? The NES doesn't have the full capabilities anyway.

@SeanOrange 16 лет назад

Adventure Island is one of the greatest games ever made.

@sonichuizcool7445 5 лет назад

somone from ninentdo knows why these adapters ended up in the games. as a child I opened my Super mario one cart and it had one. I remember being perplexed for weeks why it was that way.

@SeanOrange 16 лет назад

The NES and Famicom adapters aren't quite rated the same. I was able to use a Famicom adapter on an NES and vice versa, but I suspect that some damage may occur over time. I really couldn't say for sure, though. If you can find an NES adapter, that might work for a while at least.

@SeanOrange 16 лет назад

Heck, the size of the famicom cartridges should be proof enough of that. The size has more to do with the design of the "zero-force" slot.

@AldenMoellerInc 6 лет назад

how do you get the footage for the scenes when the consoles talk?

@SeanOrange 6 лет назад

Usually I just give them a bottle of sake, and I can’t get them to shut up!

@slyther2 14 лет назад

what I want to know is how I can open a famicom cartridge as I don't think there are any screws on them?

@SeanOrange 13 лет назад

@goodolarchie Hey, I did it in 2008, so it's not too late for any of us!

@SeanOrange 13 лет назад

@MrHossCartwright Yeah, it works fine. EXCEPT, you need a disc to control the Game Boy Player. I suppose you could get one of those boot loaders to load the Japanese disc you'd get, but it's much easier to just order a brand new US one from Nintendo directly -- assuming you can still do that! The last time I know someone tried was in 2003 when they were in ample supply! (Thanks, PhilBond!)

@tony714keene 6 лет назад

You make sense.

@SeanOrange 13 лет назад

@MrHossCartwright Good news is you don't need to go to eBay; Nintendo still sells them directfor $15 each! ;) (I just checked!)

@mexicanwaluigi 14 лет назад

@mexicanwaluigi My guess is that Nintendo had more control over games released in America and screwed us out of third party mmc chips, either to force companies into paying for the use of their chips (which probably led to most saying "meh just release it with out sound enhancements who will know the dif?") or maybe it was so they could say Nintendo's first party games sound better than all the others. I could be totally wrong though and it may just be the 74 pin to 60 pin conversion broke it.