In the case of EME-15, it wasn't only the fact that they altered the dresses, what caused the most rage at the time was that in many interviews the actresses themselves said that they had designed the dresses and that they hoped to start their own line of said dresses.
@@sarahelster6835 That's right, they believed that in Mexico nobody knew about lolita fashion. they even brought out some dolls trying to replicate the dresses ,some time later eme 15 stopped wearing the dresses and they pretended that nothing happened .
I wondered about this because altering your own clothes sure but altering clothes from a brand and then saying oh it’s our fashion style cupcake fashion sounds suss and like intellectual theft
as someone who is a huge melanie fan (my pfp and username are proof enough lol) I completely agree with what you were saying about the fandom claiming anything with her aesthetic as her own creation, other artists like billie eilish and jazmin bean have been claimed to have stolen her aesthetic when really both are just indie alternative musicians with a sort of creepy cute aesthetic, and it's really annoying because bad parts of the fandom always are what people who are outside the fandom hear about. Every normal melanie fan also hates these people lol
Fandoms can really be both the best and worst part of something you enjoy. I also like Melanies music, not a super fan or anything but the mix of despair and pretty just hits right sometimes.... I feel like most people that go around claiming ownership of styles and themes for their fandom alone, have yet to grow up and realize that nothing vague like that is really original anymore and hardly belongs to anyone. It's a tricky topic still....
I’ve seen people compare Elliot Lee to Melanie and it makes me laugh. Jazmin Bean is their own unique goblin self and I love them for it. Fashion is cyclical and EVERYONE takes bits and pieces to form their aesthetic.
Split hair is a victim of this too, I did split hair many years ago because it’s been a thing in jfashion for such a long time, I actually found out who she was because someone had said to me oh you have Melanie Martinez hair. The issue really for me is taking especially from a culture that is not your own and then presenting it as your aesthetic without any credit given to the people you took from. If what she did was transformative in any way sure but it’s a dress and matching headbow from a brand that she didn’t design and a hairstyle commonly worn with Lolita/in jfashion.
@@mahoupanda2639 I don't think we can really blame her for not telling us about the style , I'm sure if someone asked she would of told them . but almost every celebrity has a style without telling anyone their inspiration or brands bc she wore lolita occasionally so it wasn't really her main style she just took parts from almost everywhere including vintage dolls and old toys for her aesthetic . but I agree with the split hair thing I have split hair rn lolol but luckily in the past few years split hair has become very popular so most people don't see it as "her hairstyle" anymore :)
I feel like Evanescence would have thrived in even more complex gothic/elegant lolita looks and still enjoy it considering her existing style. Feels like more would have been so nice!
Character development is going from seething an entire day about a ponytail to very respectfully adressing celebrities acting like fools in your favourite fashion.
The Mana-Amy Lee thing seems like a Moi dix Mois x Evanescence collab of some kind. Amy Lee wears a lot of t-shirts and hoodies normally, in promo shots or otherwise. So I think it makes sense that she'd be wearing her own style and not change to a more Mana-adjacent style. In reality, this is not a rando with the patron saint of lolita. This is a musician with a musician.
I basically agree with you with all of these except Amy Lee tbh. I feel like she's using the Bodyline piece as part of goth fashion, rather than trying to do anything Lolita with it at all. That's the weird thing with gothic fashion styles, is there's a lot of cross over. I do agree that the outfit isn't very cohesive, but as a way to do a casual goth look, it's pretty typical of looks back in the day. I think I've done similar outfits a decade ago, though again, all black or black and white so the dramatic blue definitely could be tied in more, even with some eyeshadow or a necklace
I read your comment and I understand what ur saying, but I just, I'm sorry, but I don't think it's ever been a look. It's not a good outfit and that's ok, the pieces don't blend together and her blacks don't match. I think the part I take issue with is that it doesn't seem intentional. Maybe I'm just self-conscious because this was how I dressed in middle school when I was trying out goth for the first time but idk
I love Merry Moons! It’s funny how Lor is trying so hard to not say, “It’s not lolita.” As someone who wears lolita with my normal wardrobe sometimes I appreciate the positivity and lack of judgement, but I do know it’s not technically lolita. Also thanks for pointing out how cringe Jessica Simpson’s fashion show was. All I can think of is how much she acted like an ignorant tourist. I feel so much embarrassment watching it.
I feel like Jessica didn't get the whole thing either. It seemed like she mixed it up with the rock-a-billy style and thought it was supposed to be tongue in cheek and kind of sexy.
I don't mind celebrities in lolita but also... you can kinda feel them not treating not even just fashion but aesthetic of it seriously. I don't except them to bow down to all mighty Angelic Pretty and tell the gospel of limited releases but i don't feel comfortable whenever people boils down women having cute style to something twisted or outrageous because it keeps around the bias that of course is later weaponized towards everyday people just trying to be themselves without any dark reason behind it. It's just my opinion at the end of a day it's just piece of fabric but whenever i see lolita in some edgy music video i just roll my eyes it's so overdone.
Re: lolitas in drag: my partner is a huge Trixie Mattel fan, and I would LOVE to see Trixie wear lolita! It's not even *that* far off from some of the things she's worn before. It would have to be an brand with a decent size range but she'd look so good in sweet lolita.
Yes! I’d love to see her in a proper sweet lolita coord, she’d look so good. I consider her dripping in flowers look a clear nod to the fashion but it’d be great to see her in the actual fashion.
I actually quite like seeing people using lolita pieces in non-lolita ways but it irks me a lot when fans of a celebrity who used lolita pieces claim that this celebrity invented the style or that they now more about it than actual lolitas who've been in the fashion for years. Tho I def took to not replying to those kinda comments cause they often don't wanna learn/are usually very young fans. But I'd love to see more celebrities wearing the fashion in a proper way, it'd be really cool!
I agree with you 100% I think that everyone can benefit from learning more about lolita fashion! It’s hard when it comes to celebrities tho because the fans who love them will often assume that they made something when they just made it more popular. Also celebrities or their crew should educate themselves more so they can educate their fans! Also you have a lovely profile picture!
God, I wish I had a proper source or could remember where I read this, but IIRC Amy Lee has stated that when she went to do the interview with Mana, it was a bit of a last minute thing and she didn't know there was going to be a photoshoot and magazine feature as such, so she didn't have an outfit prepared. Which would make sense. Amy Lee has designed some incredible dresses for herself - not lolita, but with westerm goth elements, and if she had been able to prepare properly they would have looked great together. I wanna give her the benefit of the doubt bc she had a great sense of style then so it doesn't make sense to me that she'd meet someone who is a total Gothic (lolita) icon dressed so casually lol
Thank you for pointing out the Lowbrow movement. I've been trying to put my finger on that uncanny cute aesthetic for years. I truly LOVE it but I couldn't put it into words. I just always said I liked creepy-cute or Alice in Wonderland, but that isn't quite right. (but damn, when Disney decided to make an Alice themed scarehouse for halloween 🤤)
Thank you so very very VERY much for including a flash warning! So many people forget to do that with things like music videos and video games so I really appreciate it!!!
Tbh Melanie is one of the many reasons why I’m into Lolita, Pastel Goth, Gothic fashion, her whole children’s pastel horror genre also got me into the other parts in that genre. I am a total die hard fan, I’ve been listening to her since 2012. I wouldn’t call her Lolita, just alt.
As Mexican, when missXV was on air, a lot of mother's where looking to get the fabrics for make those dresses hahahahaha oh dear..... That's not how it works hahaha.
@@ROCKYLOVECUPCAKE your initial comment was literally talking about mothers. And only mothers. Either you didn't construct your first comment well, or you did not bother to read it after posting.
@@EveRosell To me it just came across as OP saying there's no way they could have found those fabrics because they are trademarked and only available from the brands already made into products. Therefore no, that's not how it works, these prints are not commercially available.
I used to despise any instance of a celebrity wearing lolita probably because I was insanely mad that celebrities could be able to wear brand pieces and (in my opinion at that time) misused them and didn't really care about something that I couldn't afford but cared very deeply about, might also be because these people are famous and I thought that they were "bad" examples of what the actual fashion was like and it kind of upset me to know that they may have been someone's first and or only experience with the style. Anyway my life is a bit better not paying any attention to most celebrities nowadays.
Wow you brought me back! I actually discovered Melanie because we both happen to cross paths in little Tokyo back when fairytale boutique was still open. I don’t listen to her now but I remember going through the same feelings about her music as you did.
in all honesty the hate around Melanie is dumb she never called herself a lolita and she's not into ddlg or sexualizing the fashion her music is about dark themes and it's surrounded by pastels
amy lee's outfit, if the tee had the middle section be the same blue, (maybe still with a rainbow) newrock boots (or the same boots with blue ribbons tied criss-cross over) and blue streaks in the hair (asymmetrical if keeping the rainbow) that would be a killer look, i'd distress the sleeves too. it wouldnt be lolita but it would be cool af, looking forward to seeing how others style the skirt
The walking dead example is a great example! So like zombie never existed in their world so it wasn’t knowledgeable. So for them calling it “cupcake fashion”, it’s not something invented in their world so it’s like there own brand name. 😅
there was this old k-pop group called orange caramel they were the first k pop group that I was really a huge fan of anyways they always had wacky concepts and were like the Melanie Martinez of k-pop anyways i saw that they would wear a lot of Lolita fashion inspired outfits in their music videos.
I definitely agree with you about the balance of the outfits, because that’s one of my biggest things when I see celebrities wearing it or lolita pieces used outside of the style. Some lolita garments are hard to style down because they can be so intricate and over the top. I’m totally fine with lolita pieces being worn in other ways as long as they’re styled well because it can look out of place and off balance if you aren’t careful. But I mean, as long as you’re having fun and not calling it something it’s not, I guess there’s no real harm. Oh and them calling it cupcake fashion is whatever because if they’re gonna alter the skirts so they’re super short and not style it as lolita, I think it’s fine that they call it something else, because it is something else. I wear otome a lot and the style can use lolita pieces a lot of times without it being lolita so I don’t care much about that part. XD
If I could recommend an indie artist, TourNewSoul is an LA-area milliner who also makes accessories and clothes, she's been making mini hats for Lolita. I really think you'd love her hats, she does cute things like cakes, tea cups, tricorne, etc...
@8:38 I think the term "cupcake fashion" came not only from necessity but also because the way the dresses were altered (eg the specific silhouette, short length wide poof skirt and fitted bodice) are actually called a "cupcake dress" (the name is derived from the shape of the dress which forms an inverted cupcake).. This specific silhouette was extremely common a decade ago in tween/teen girls fashion, especially girls and junior misses formal wear. This style of dress remains most prevalent in child beauty pageants, which I believe is also where the term originated. Recently cupcake dresses have almost entirely been phased out of mainstream girls fashion however.
Ok so about the Melanie Martinez part: We have to stop blaming the artists for what their fans do. Not coming at Lori since she isn't the one who blames Melanie but to the actual audience. Many people hate on Melanie Martinez because the fans claiming everything as something that belongs to Melanie's "aesthetic" when its literally been around for years. I love Melanie, and thanks to her I've been introduced to many things such as Lolita fashion and rushton dolls. We have to start giving her credit, and blame the toxic fans that wants to gatekeep everything.
i used to own that bodyline skirt in the red colorway and it was my favorite one to wear and make coords with. it's a good skirt! the satin isn't as shiny in person as it is in photos, i feel. too bad i don't own it anymore.
Like idk call me disrespectful but I feel like the great thing about fashion is how you can play with it and while I know lolita has a history of being disrespected and misunderstood I also I think that fashion is a free form of self expression and as long as your not actively trying to disrespect anyone or the lolita community as a whole (applies to any origin of clothing really) I don't see why it can't be messed around with and try to make is different then what is considered classic lolita like do whatever makes you happy with fashion there shouldn't be strict rules to self expression with fashion
Thanks for adding the list of who you talked about. I thought I wouldn't need it, but I checked anyway, and sure enough, one of them is someone who makes me VERY uncomfortable. It was nice to have the warning.
Two things: First, I've watched puppet by Alaska Thunderf*ck 5000 a million times and just now realized they were wearing Lolita. Second, and I will preface this with the fact that I am a Melanie fan, Melanine Martinez actually was one of two people that got me into Lolita fashion. I was watching one of her live performances and going "omg I love that crybaby aesthetic" . However I later (through the Safia Nygaard video) actually learned more about and could name the fashion. I think that the fandom around Melanie just seems to not have the terminology for her aesthetic, like before getting into art I didn't know her "unique" art style was called Lowbrow Pop Surealism (or they could just be turning a blind eye, who knows :p)
I'm personally a huge melanie stan and I suggest anyone interested to check out Pearlie Cute's video about her! To sum up the hatred that she got from the community was basically based on a lie lol. Also the SA allegation is (almost) proved to be false, the person making allegation against her is known for lying about such things and she attempted to copy Melanie multiple times
The person who made the SA allegations also has abuse allegations against her, uses her BPD as an excuse to abuse others, and multiple times made apologies asking her fans to forgive her for what she did to Mel like it's her fans who are owed the apology.
7:16 I think the colored t-shirt is what’s throwing me off on the outfit tbh. If it didn’t have a design or had more blue I think it would make the outfit look amazing
I am not a lolita nor have I ever worn the fashion, but I am a huge fan of it and love your videos. I often find it confusing how lolita dresses are kind of boxed into that category. Like, I get that they are marketed that way, but why is it surprising that people want to style the items in the way they like? Why is the default idea that a person must make a full co-ord in order to "respect" or be able to wear the fashion without criticism? Like, I get there are issues with misunderstanding the fashion or people being creeps about it, but in most of these instances nobody was claiming to wear lolita nor presented their outfits as a lolita ensemble. Even Jessica Simpson was being playful, which matches with the persona she had at the time. Even Lor says lolitas likely scared people away from the fashion. Why is it something that is desired to happen, to gatekeep a style? It is a different thing when the wearer is not doing it correctly and still promotes themselves as a lolita fashion wearer or tries to be an authority on the matter, like it often happens in those documentaries or video Lor often reacts to, but I am not talking about those here. Just my thoughts.
I think it's because every lolita gets compared to them. Almost everytime a pictire of a lolita or some other harajuku fashion makes it to a non-lolita person, they say "oh that looks like something Melanie Martinez would wear" or some other comparison to her and it gets really annoying
I'd definitely recommend watching the video Lor recommended from pearlie cute on the topic, because as a fan of Melanie who likes lolita is helped me understand the topic better :)
@@pleaseignorethisismyoldaccount which is weird because Melanie herself said she enjoys vintage fashion and it’s quite obvious that there’s a difference between the vintage Melanie wears and Lolita
@@pleaseignorethisismyoldaccount hating someone based on what someone else entirely separate said is immature and narrow minded.. like that's kindergarten mentality
I feel like that eme 15 group just made those dresses look like skater dresses so it's not very unique or interesting. Jessica Simpson seems to think this fashion is for cancan dancing.
From a HUGEEEEEEEEEEEE Melanie fan, a crybaby if you will, I never consciously understood that I thought whatever Melanie did was her own aesthetic and never discovered/knew it was Lolita fashion until discovering you around a couple of years ago and then looking at this video now. It does suck 100% that people thought what she was doing was her own work when in reality it wasn't at all she was, like you said, inspired by Lolita aesthetics and other fashion into her own style. Also I 100% get not being into her music anymore considering that I also discovered her when I was in a low point in my life (hence why Recess and Cake are my favorite songs of all time). She's moved on from her Crybaby era and into her Portals era, which I'm not really fond of, but I have her vinyl in my room so ummm... yeah- LOL
I think that Jessica Simpson was just trying to be scandalous more then disrespectful to the fashion, maybe she was playing up a character in her show? I don’t know her at all and I feel like if they really wanted to disrespect the community they could have done much worse I’m my opinion. I think she was sexualizing the fashion more herself, because they put so much effort into the fashion show being perfect and even meeting the makers of the fashion so they have to had taken it seriously in some way I’d like to think. I have only been in the fashion for a few months so I don’t know everything yet so if you have some points I’d love to hear them!
I don't disagree with Lor about Jessica disrespecting the fashion because she absolutely did (the show also referred to the AP designers as simply "harajuku girls", not even introduced them by name), but I definitely agree with you that she sexualized the fashion -- It's been quite a while since I've seen the episode in question, but as far as I can remember, she made a big deal about the fashion's name, treating it like something scandalous and sexy... which can probably explain her behavior on that runway. She probably did think it was sexual, and either no one corrected her or she didn't listen.
@@Slithera Well it seems like you know more about the whole situation then I do I just simply saw the clip on this video. According to what you know and have told me it seems like they tried to do some research compared to others that don’t even try and in the end let the word Lolita be overwritten by the book more then the fashion and that’s not good at all in my opinion. It’s so easy especially when you even have the people making the clothes right there to ask them about how the fashion works I think!
@@zeldalee03 Yes, they did travel to Japan and got in contact with actual lolitas to showcase the fashion accurately, but I guess they thought that the "scandalous" angle would attract more views so they just kept that in/never corrected Jessica's misunderstanding of the fashion. Which is super unfortunate.
@@Slithera Yeah that sounds very bad indeed. I can but I won’t wanna believe that people are so gready for views or about “exposing” something… I’m guessing it was reality tv? They tend to do that because there is so many and they all need to be “realistic” and scandalous…
Stans just be crazy and celebs aren't responsible for their actions and forced narratives based on misconceptions.. I'm not gonna hate Melanie because one of her fans said I'm copying her based on my style. She didn't say it. I ain't got no beef with her and I can't stop people from having whatever view they have. That's just life. We ain't all gonna see eye to eye and that is fine. I'm gonna respectfully ignore the negativity
Totally random but speaking of japanese celebs wearing lolita, I just bagged the chess chocolate bustier jsk in white chocolate (for £59! crazy!) and only just realised it features on the AKB48 single covers for Ue Kara Mariko, which was back in 2011 when it was super fresh! There’s a lot of recognisable prints from that photoshoot, although it’s far from the only time lolita has been used in jpop idol concepts not everyone wears lolita in the photoshoot I mentioned, but the ones that do wear it in a pretty standard lolita way, and it’s going for a kinda dollhouse concept which is rly cute!!
I was as scared as you watching the video thinking you'd roast her since I personally love how she uses cute style but if I knew the fans were the problems I wouldn't be so scared! I can't believe people credit one musician for various aesthetics,,,,
ive heard most melanie martinez but im mostly im just a neutral fan lol i like her music but that's about it. i haven't listened to a song by hers in awhile besides the song Cake lmao
Do you have any tips for someone who might like to try wearing lolita fashion but doesn't know if they want to do it more than that first time? It seems like such a big investment that would be a waste if I don't end up getting into it
My problem with Melanie Martinez is her inclusion of mature topics in her videos, alongside more innocent aesthetics. The creepy side is fine,the inappropriate stuff...not so much. I understand art for art's sake,but there needs to be a line. I originally listened to her music because I didn't note the adult themes at first. I just wanted to listen because I enjoy weird kid-like aesthetics. Also,the characters she used in that video you showed a screenshot from aren't even hers. They are from the Rushton company in the 1950s. If I see one more person claiming they belong to her,I will scream.
I actually love her for that very reason...I love the juxtaposition and always have done, but then again I've always loved songs like don't fear the reaper, pumped up kicks, I don't like Mondays, 99 luftballoons, Zombie, chandelier, some old, some new, just a small amount of happy, innocent, and often "childish" sounds and lyrics but dark meanings.
Tbh I like the attitude of the Simpson girl showing the bloomers. She's having fun and that's what it's all about. And she looks amazing I really like that coord. Also it made me so happy when I was like 8 yo.
LOL it’s because Milly was hanging out with Drag Queens, specifically The Boulet Brothers. Like, Drag is already meant to be edgy, but the Boulet Brothers take it up a notch.
honestly, i think you got it wrong some of your own lines. the reason people think that lolitas are trying to be like melanie it's because she popularized the fashion and the whole doll aesthetic. you're clapping lady gaga for popularizing lolita fashion and getting mad at melanie martinez for doing the same? she always made it clear that she was inspired by mark ryden at her work, anyways.
I can't listen to Melanie anymore either, both for that same reason you said, but also at the time I didn't know about ddlg or nymphet stuff and the more I interacted with her fans on social media and learned about it the more icky it got for me. Then I started to find pictures of her sucking on pacifiers and those kinds of things. Regardless of how she actually styles her pieces, I just feel uncomfy when I see it.
But melanie isn't part of the ddlg/nymphet community? She's playing a character of a child lol, one who goes/went through very real expieriences and mel doesn't sugarcoat it and either way crybaby (the character she's playing) literally grows up in the second album
About That Jessica Simpson Maki and Asuka at Outer Exterior : * Looks Calm * Maki And Asuka Inside : *Lolitas Do Not Flipping Their Skirt To Show Off Their Petticoats , Petticoats are Inner Garments!*
Lor you don't understand, I remember watching miss xv on tv because i live in latin america, and loving their dresses. Who knew I would be loving the fashion years after!! 😅
I also can't stand tiny hats. But, honestly, I'm not a fan of head bows either.... sorry. How do you style Lolita without headbows? What kind of hats can you wear? Btw? Never heard of Melanie Martinez.... until you just mentioned her. Hearing about her fan base discourages me from finding out more.
Same. Mini hats are just weird and I don't like head bows on me, too. I only use bows with clips on a bun or over the ears... or ribons braided in (think mediaeval style), hair crowns and anything flowers are good too. No head squeezing head bands with bows required. As for hats, I think berets are by far the most used in the fashion, but boater hats, straw hats, vintage pillboxes, sailors hats, bowlers, even tricorns can work. For classic I think anything vintage is fair game, think of the funny victorian hats with birds~
I'm mexican and I hated that show so much 🙃 it was so annoying and how they massacred those beautiful dresses for something that horrible. I'm happy to be able to say it now because I said it in a gropu of mexican tv they all make fun of me 🥲 the show wasn't even good
like, victorious is a kids show yet they went out of their way to alter the dress skirts shorter... it's typical, also telling. the producer who shall not be named is straight up a known awful guy, so i'm not surprised but also the thought of the dresses being picked out and then purpousely altered to be more revealing is like... ugh. to be clear, nothing wrong with altering your own lolita to be more revealing, it's your body, & also your choice how much of it you want to show. but the cast of minors in victorious didn't get to choose their chlothes, so the skirts being altered shorter for no reason... sus at best
I kinda wonder what is the year when these photos were from, specially the Amy Lee one because it feels very early 2000s styling, though I agree the boots gotta go
