I like the Creamback much better for its warm full tone too ! The usability of the Creamback is bigger too because of the superb clean tones you can't get with a Greenback.
I think it is a modern misconception that guitars should have a big, full sound on their own. A lot of new gear seems to aim for this. The vintage tones like what you're getting here with the greenback work really well in a mix and to cut through. They seem to have a lot of nice detail in the mids. It's just kind of begging for a bass guitar and kick drum to fill it out.
Exactly. It always has to be judged in the context of a mix. I've heard people say an Alnico Blue is too toppy and raspy but play that bad boy in a band mix and hear it slice right through. Sounds wonderful.
The difference is when using 100 watt amps in 4x12s those thin sounds got fuller and fatter, especially since you need a full stack to use greenbacks with a 100 watt amplifier . The modern ones are meant to be used a lot more efficiently with smaller setups and still have meat to them that you wouldn’t get unless you had multiple stacks . If the originals were darker people would just say”oh wow the classics are so much sweeter, nowadays everything is so bright and brittle “
These videos are fantastic... thank you! They both sound incredible, albeit different. I really like both tonal colors. However, the greenback has the tone that inspired for my taste... they’re both so good it’s really down to personal preference. I wouldn’t fault anyone who selected the cream back over the green. They both sound totally rad.
You are right about the nasal in the vintage. I found that more pleasing for the single and solo notes but liked the thickness of the other for rhythm. I think it is a lot like BBQ, it depends on what you grew up having. That is what is your perfect BBQ. Same with speaker sounds. The time period and gear the bands used influence your "ear tastes". I.e for me, the group that grew up on Boogie and PRS traded a lot of tone for depth, power and gain. They might disagree. You are right, these were both good speakers.
I'm a big Greenback fan but in this comparison, the Creamback sounded more to my tastes. Not soo fizzy and trebly, nice thick tone. I have a 212 with 65 Creambacks at home too :)
That's an amazing comparison and I'm finally happy that Creamback is exactly what I want and I don't need to look for vintage Celestion. Though both of them sound great and I probably would be happy with any but it is cool that what I like is something less rare and more affordable. Thank you Johan! :)
I don't have a lot of experience with Greenbacks but as a Creamback owner I can say they are very nice. Great cleans and remain warm yet clear when reaching breakup and into higher gain. Either way you can't go wrong!
Howdy Johan, your video comparison between these two speakers helped me out immensely. I FINALLY made the choice of the 'modern' Creamback G12M-65 loaded into my Mesa 2X12 'Recto' cabinet. I am going to use two 16 Ohm speakers wired up in parallel for a combined 8 Ohm load so I can use the 'Recto' cabinet with my 'stable' of amplifiers. Cheers!
Both very cool sounding speakers. The Greenback is "the" sound though. The Creamback has "something" and is certainly a usable tone but it's a different thing. It seemed to depend on what you were playing as to which I preferred better. Great comparison, as usual, Johan.
Johan your preface was spot on! Greenback with pulsonic cone had a much sweeter more detailed top end. The Creamback sounded muffled in comparison. The Greenback would cut through the mix so much better, perhaps if you had a backing drum & bass track it would be more apparent.
I have both UK made and Chinese made Greenbacks and yes there is a small difference with the UK ones being just a bit more smooth but I'm not sure I think it's worth a price difference. Just break then in and you won't hear the difference, the Chinese ones are just fine
This is a rare occasion that I prefer the modern equivalent! That Creamback sounds massively better to my ears. It's definitely derived from the Greenback but just sound "more" or "fuller"? I know what my next speaker will be!
I currently have a 4x12 loaded with V30s, a few 1x12s with various modern Greenbacks, and a 2x12 cab set up Egnater-style with a V30 and an Elite 80. As I'm getting older (aren't we all?) I'm seeking a bit more vintage flavor from present day speaker choices to shake up the 4x12 and the 2x12. This shootout (combined with other speaker videos you have done) is making me think Creambacks are the way to go. Sadly, original vintage speakers are getting a bit too pricy and rarer on eBay these days... and I'm quite certain your videos are helping fuel the demand for vintage speakers with Pulsonic cones. Keep these wonderful, informative videos coming, Johan. Your videos are the best!
I LOVE that Korina V!!! I'm with you on that "nasal" quality old speakers have. Even the old Jensen P series speakers have a bit of it. The Creamback sounds great for a modern speaker, you can definitely do a lot worse.
Johan Segeborn is it an 80's reissue or a new one? Either way, I'm happy that Gibson has made them. A truly amazing design for 1958. As with the ES-335's, they are iconic instruments that have stood the test of time.
A 10” Creamback REALLY woke up my Origin 20C. Really thickened it up and cured most of the anemic tendencies of the low power settings. Just a lovely speaker.
I prefer the Greenback sound in the more sort of rhythm parts played here but prefer the Creamback for lead tone. Which is a really annoying conclusion to come to lol.
Johan i Really like your tone! by far this is one of my top Channels on youtube! i would take both speakers! haha. always nice gear and amazing demos cheers!
I'm a longtime pulsonic greenback guy who uses the creamback 65 in a 1x12 cab to allow for the higher power application. They are not the same as the originals like you say but I've come to really love it as my go to cab. I would love to load a 4x12 with the creambacks and check that out. Love your channel Johan keep it up!
Nouveautwang the creamback is killer in 50 watt combo amps . o have the creamback in a 50 watt open back combo with a vintage 30 in a 1 by 12 extension cab and that combo is perfect lots of low end lower and upper mids and a treble that is rounded just enough . i am mainly a rythum player and heavy riffer so I don't need alot of treble breakup or presence . tried pairing a greenback with the v 30 but do not like the results . the low mids and bass were too loose . for lead I would take a vintage greenback or g12h 30 all the way.
The creamback does sound a bit harder, tighter, and not as shimmery. For some sounds applications that's what I would want. The greenback has that undeniable early sound which is very much what we are used to hearing. I'd love to have a cab loaded with greenbacks to play at home/record. As for playing out with a band; I'd take a cab loaded with creambacks. They just seem easier to manage in my opinion. Awesome playing as always!
I put two Creambacks and two Greenbacks into one of my 1960A cabinetes and I'm very pleased with it. I'll probably do the same to a 1960B cabinet as well, to have the full stack matched in tone.
The creamback certainly is nice. I can see why some would prefer it in this context, but if you want to be heard, the greenback is THE sound. It's woody, but still cuts like a hot knife through butter. Thanks, Johan!
Your description was right on. I was surprised that the Greenback was so much more articulate on the high end because I think of it as a mid-heavy speaker. The Creamback also didn't have that famous nasal quality of the GB. I thought they would sound more similar than they do. Both of them clearly have the British/Celestion/Marshall flavor, but there was a noticeable difference considering the CB is marketed as a higher power GB.
Had the creamback, kept the Greenback, I felt the cream back is like mixing a v30 and greenback together. My favorite speaker for marshalls is the g12-65. Great DEMO JOHAN !
Johan I have a RI Creamback in my Vox AC 15. My comment would be patience. It took a ridiculously long time to break in. I finally resorted to playing my Jazz Bass through the amp to shake it up. It now sounds amazing!
I suppose they did as much as they could to get a similar tone while adding 40 watts of power handling capability. Must be some serious trade-offs to make that happen. Either way, both sound great. Thanks for the demo Johan!
+Rick McCargar Thanks Rick! But I don't know if the difference is that big between the 25 and 65 watt versions of the Scumback speakers. Anyway they both sound great to me. Just different. Cheers!
Loved hearing you talk a bit more in the beginning-it was great to hear your thoughts. Wow both sound amazing. Hard for me to pick one. I guess I would pick the one that helps me get that "Johan" sound.
ok so I finally got a plexi (thanks in no small part to your videos) and I'm wanting to grab some new or old speakers for it. Celestion's "Greenback" design right now is confusing as hell so I guess I'll just ask which of these you'd pick out of the current production "walk into the store and buy" speaker if you had to pick? Heritage G12H(55) G12M Greenback (75hz) G12 EVH (G12M20 I think with just an EVH sticker?) Heritage G12H(75) G12-65 Heritage
After the intro/lead-in comments I was expecting to be disappointed, but was very surprised at how good the Creamback sounded, and infact, I much preferred its tone to the greenback - side by side the greenback sounds harsh and grating compared to the creamback to me. The creamback has plenty of honk and top end. Another awesome and eye opening demo - Thanks Johan!
Thanks for that comparison!!! I swear by the creambacks, it's what i use. But i loved both and since i can't find the vintage ones, i'll stick with what i got. Both sound exactly how you describe them though, good call!
Hi Johan. I had a Creamback in my TAD JTM 1x12 Combo for the last 2 years. A great speaker for sure, providing many of the strengths of its predecessors. But it always used to have a harsh breakup peak in the high middles, especially at the level of overdrive where the JTM excels, and when I changed my pickups to even more PAF-like, pretty “voicy” ones (from Wizz to Amber Spirit of 59, older A5 version), it was just too much. Then, a Scumback M75LD 65W came across, and it turned out to perform much creamier, and richer at the same time. I still need to find out if the large dustcap takes away too much top end, so I might go for a small dustcap version later on, but the Scumback definitely brought me the cure for great vintage tone!
It seems a more fair related comparison would have been between this Modern Celestion G12M-65 creamback Vs 1974 Rola G12M-25 75Hz greyback with the 1970 Pre Rola G12M-25 75Hz greenback then compaired against these for comparison. But really cool to see this comparison too and of course the 1970 Pre Rola G12M-25 75Hz greenback is pretty much the speaker that most all others are judged off of so great to see how these sound in relation to one another. Love your videos!
+Derrick Baranowsky Thanks Derrick, I'm glad to hear that. I compare some of the 1970s G12 cones in this clip ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-M6IhLfVs6Qg.html Cheers Johan
Yes, I have seen this video and it's great! I just thought it might be more relevant to compare this Modern Celestion G12M-65 creamback with an original 1974 Rola G12M-25 75Hz greyback since that is what it is supposed to be a copy of, instead of an original 1970 Pre Rola G12M-25 75Hz greenback. Still a super cool comparison and not a criticism by any means. As I said, this is a cool comparison and I love your videos ;-)
Derrick Baranowsky it seems the modern speakers don t stand a chance against the pulsonic cones. I would love to hear the creamback against later 70s greenbacks or even the g65 speakers .
Really interesting comparison. Preferred the old Greenback for the rhythm stuff, the Creamback for lead. Personally, I'm using the Creamback Neo right now, which is a speaker I like very much.
They both sound pretty great actually. Obviously quite different but they both would have their place. It'd be great to have a cab for each, and record the same performance through both speakers, then blend them in the mix where ever it fits best. Great video man, straight to the point, and sounds are killer!
I bought the Creambacks once as I wanted the early G12M sound and was so disappointed. They just didn't give me the tone or breakup that I wanted. I then bought a new cab with the Heritage G12M Speakers and love them. The top end break up was what I was looking for. The creambacks just don't break up enough unfortunately. My JTM50 didn't sound good through them at all. They sound good with that Master Volume amp in your video though. Great video as always by the way.
+Johan Segeborn Can you do a video comparing the Heritage G12M to the G12M-20 and G12M-25? People say the Heritage G12M doesn't sound like the old Greenbacks but I suspect it was based on the original 20W Greenbacks.
Hi Johann, cool test. Had a similar issue as I like greenback heritage speakers but for my higher wattage amp needed a higher power rated speakers for a 2x12 cab. Would a g12h with its top end be closer to the vintage greenback 😳 or the neo creamback or even scumback with the paper voice cone? Or another way to ask the same question would be can you do a video of modern speakers that comes the closest to approximate the sound of vintage greenback in a 65 watt+ power handling range 👍 Would be eternally thankful 🤘
+Peter Along Mannen Thanks, yeah the Celestion Heritage G12H30 55Hz and 75Hz are much closer to the original Greenbacks. In this clip I compare the Heritage 55Hz to the original G12H Greenback ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-jRx9gH7ugrk.html Cheers
Creamback edges out the greenback for me, both sound great. I’m trying to figure out which cab would compliment my hiwatt halfstack and what speaker combination should go in it
The early 70s G 12M 25 waters hit the sweet spot for me John. My first Marshall cabinet what is the 4x12 large 2032 with these speakers . I also tried a lot of other speakers and for me they hit the mark…….Cheers…… Keep on rockin
The original is more 'on your face' kind of. A surround! Great video! By the way: just bought a Lead 12, all because your review. This little beast will cheers the barbecue jam nights. Thanks... again.
Another great demo Johan! I prefer the bite and snarl of the Greebacks.. just more grit, definition and clarity.. The creambacks are on the verge of mushy.. smooth but not as articulate.
You make awesome videos!! I would love to hear a comparison between a Original Pulsonic Cone G12M, a UK Reissue, and finally the current Chinese made reissue. Thank you and keep up the great work!
Both sound awesome! Actually I haven't seen any bad sound in this channel yet... How well broken-in was the Creamback speaker? Do you think it will get warmer, rounder, and sweeter in the top after proper break-in? Besides construction, there's obviously 50 years of playing as a difference between them... Have you ever tested the G12H-75 Creamback? It seems to get even better reviews than the G12M-65
Thanks, glad to hear it! If I remember correctly it had a fair amount of playing on it. The G12H-75 is indeed even better. That’s the speaker in the Astoria series for instance. Cheers
I like them both. I think the Creamback is more pleasing to my ear in the solo guitar context. I could see where the big-mid attitude of the Greenback might be more desirable in a band context. I own a G12M-65 and a Heritage G12M and they sound much closer than these two.
My only question is how much play time is on the creamback? If its brand new, once it is broken in it may sound a bit different..... None the less both sound great, just different from each other, and keep in mind the greenback has 47+ years of use/playtime on it. : ) In my opinion one of each of these in a 2x12 cab would sound amazing : ) Keep up the good work Johan! : )
Have you looked into the Hotone Purple Wind? It's a miniature solid state plexi inspired amp you might want to look into, it'd be cool to see your take on it
I love the channel, recently found it, and I'm really enjoying it, learning a lot. I want to build a 1x12 for my 15w EVH LBX. Just bedroom playing. I like a lot of the small amps, Blackstar 1w, Orange Dark Terror, etc. Looking at my speaker options, I like a lot of the 20w and 25w options, but there are a lot of guitar players who advise double the amp w for speakers. Do I need to plan on a 2x12, or am I on the right track? This seems to be a very debated topic. Thanks for your time.
+viper1vols Thanks, great to hear that! I always try to use double the power when I'm gonna play for longer periods. But my 50W Orange OR80 has 2x30 W speakers, so it's indeed a bit confusing. But if you're only gonna play at lower volumes you can use any speaker.
Hi Johan, have you compared the 16 ohm versions of the two speakers? Usually the 16 Ohm version has more top end than the 8 ohm from what I have heard. Just a thought.
Good comparison Johan. You can really hear the difference in the speakers here. To me it sounds like if your style is bluesy low gain music the 25 watter will be a better choice. For higher gain settings the sound will be tighter and supporting single notes, solos etc in a better way with the 65's.
Hi Johan, would be nice to hear how a Marshall Celestion G12C Greenback sounds against a modern G12M Greenback reissue or original. I believe from the limited info about the G12C, it was used in the Marshall vintage modern and Super 100JH Hendrix stack. Also, info stated it was an attempt to voice the cone like a pulsonic cone?? Wonder if it sounds any different from a regular greenback as I may have an oppurtunity to buy some. What do you think?
I'd choose the vintage Greenback every time, but the Creamback didn't sound bad at all. One might be able to dial the amp to make the Creamback sound a lot like the Greenback. Great demo Johan!
Excellent video, thank you. Would there be any chance that you could demo the Marshall Vintage Modern 50 watt combo, I have one with 2 x 12"" Celestion Jimi Hendrix Green backs, I can't seem to get a real Hard Rock sound out of it, maybe the Speakers haven't broken in enough yet? Kind regards,
+John Roberts Thanks John, I actually have a demo of that amp here on the channel. The vintage channel is great but the modern channel is to harsh for my taste
Johan Segeborn , thank you, I am looking forward to seeing your review. I really enjoy watching your demo's, your knowledge of all things Rock and Marshall is sensational. Happy Easter. kind regards.
Heres what I think,That greenback is PERFECT. for a marsahll amp..The Creamback would be great for a Mesa.5150 or modern high gain..Maybe matched with a v30.
What it sounds like to me, is that they nailed the coloration (which is nearly impossible to do), and that's why the creamback has such a dark tilt to its eq: must have been some kind of tradeoff for that extra power handling. So use a large diaphragm condenser, right over the dust cap, and bring it up in the mix with a 57 until you can hear that presence. Maybe even just a high shelf in post on a 57 by itself would work. There is some 1k that would need nudged up like 1dB, but besides that EQ tilt, I do think it has the character, the peaks and troughs in response, nailed to the wall. But because of the way masking works, I much prefer the rolled-off sound of the M creamback because it lets that gorgeous midrange snarl absolutely shine.
Hi Johan, I have got a Marshall dsl 40cr the back is half open on this amp, and i hate the v-type speaker that comes with it. There is a fizzy frequency i cant stand, tryied many things to get rid of it. I want a speaker change, do you recommend a G12m65 or a g12h75. Playing mostly Hardrock, punk really want good sounding powerchords, please help thx🙂
I would love to see you do a review with the Neo Creamback. This a exclusively for Engl Artist Edition Amp designed Speaker. Those speakers sound so nice.
Great comparison, thank you. Creamback sounds better to me here. Greenback sounds a little scooped in comparison. I know it's not a "scooped" speaker. But next to the Creamback... the new Creamback sounds more full.
Mr. Segeborn, is it possible to use any of these speakers as an upgrade to a solid state amp like a Fender Mustang V Head or a Crate Power Block CPB 150? Thanks in advance! I´m already a subscriber and a fan of your vids. Cheers.
+Dr_Hyde06 Thanks, good to hear you like the videos! You could use a full stack of 8 Greenbacks for a total of 200W with these 150W amps. Or a half stack with the Creamback for a total of 280 W. Cheers Johan
Man, you made my day! I caught the analogy quite clear. I meant, if I have a 2x12 with these speakers to use with a Tube amp, the wattage of a Solid state (150) wouldn't affect or blow the Celestions.
Use the 2 creambacks and keep it to 8 and there is little chance of ruining them. The Mustang is a good amp. I love my tube amps, but solid state isn't always bad, just see Johans Lead 12 and Bass 12 vids as examples. I made my own town with the fuse software to mimic a vintage Traynor tone, its Marshall/Bassman like with a different gain type. That is the good thing about the Mustang you can tweak it till you get close to that tone in your head...it just never is quite there is all. 9.5/10 is great, but the 0.5 can drive you mad looking for the missing bit.
I can definitely hear the difference, so obviously they are not a direct match, but I'm assuming that you used the same amp settings for both? If that's the case, I wonder if you can get the Creamback to sound closer to the Greenback with a simple increase of the presence control? Seems to me that's mostly what it's missing. Great video yet again!
+Brian Peter Thanks Brian, I used the same settings for both, but it would indeed be interesting to see how close to the greenback the Creamback could be tweaked using EQ etc
The original has amazing detail and character. These 2 speakers would probably mix well together in a 2x12 or 4x12. Would like to see more vids of different Celestions together. I remember how great my 4x12 sounded with 2 V30's/ 2 Celestion G12H30's. What about Celestion blue/G12H 30, G12H30 Bass cone/G12H30 Lead cone, Etc., Thanks!
+tonebender69 Thanks, that's good idea. I combine G12H and JBL as well as G12H and Goodmans in these clips. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-TN7qY3ClzNE.html ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE--SVTtLa5i_Y.html Cheers Johan
Yes, I do hear the difference, as you say, it's in the top end. They're both good but I prefer the Creamback. That top end on the Greenback is just a tad scratchy and ragged to my (admittedly old) ears.
Johan Segeborn yeah I bought this speaker because I had in my mind the 1987x or any 50w range Marshall amp. I plan to swap that speaker for a 20w or 30w G12M heritage série one day. Don't know which one yet to pair it with those little amps ( Marshall 1watters,lead 12 and the class 5). Which heritage speaker would you choose for those specific amps ?
Very nice comparison! The question now is that if the modern G12M Creamback isn't actually a good modern replica of an early 70s Greenback, is there a different modern production speaker, whether from Celestion or someone else, that does a better job? I've heard good reviews of WGS' and Ted Weber's versions of the Greenback but a direct comparison like this would be very interesting!
Do they still make the greenbacks? What does pre Rola mean? What about vintage 30's? Tell us more, for those just learning the finer points of all this..All about the watts, hertz, ohms, etc.. No one else really says much about it. Thanks.
Johan, do someday video Greenback vs Neo Creamback if you can. That Celestion new neodymium Creamback. I have that neo in my combo and i like it more than Creamback 65.
I think you should have one of each in a mesa 2x12 rectifier cab. They actually compliment each other. But if I could only pick one, I would do the creamback. It has a more rounded and less papery sound than the greenback. Amp choice would possibly change this though.
Hello sir, could you give me an advise if what celestion speaker should I match with my fender blues deluxe? I believe you are the authority when it comes to speaker selection and matching. I usually play cleans.Thank you so much.
Amazing video as always sir! I just had an idea, what if you used a 212 cab with both speakers miced up, each panned hard left nd right? Can give a clear contrast between the two and show the tonal possibilities if both together. Cheers!
Hello, I have the opportunity to have either a g12m25 blackback 1978 or creamback g12m25 of 1974. are t'ils comparable to a creamback recent or are they best? thank you.
