Celestions' G12-65 & G12M-65 (Creamback), What's the difference? 

This has quickly become my favorite combo to use . They fill each other out nicely and cover a lot of ground . Thanks for the informative video

I think they sound great mixed together. I don't know how they sound in the room together, but recorded and mixed they consistently made me open my eyes in a blind test.

Awesome, guys! I was looking forward to a comparison between these two! Thank you!

As someone who just bought a vintage G12-65, i’m so happy you guys exist!

I like to watch these videos as much for the tasty playing as the information. So nice to hear demos with someone who can really play. My ears are hearing a cool, useful tone with the combo of the 2, as well as increased options for recording and live performance. I'm surprised, as I was actually expecting them to sound more similar.

Great video. I could listen to you guys chat about speakers all day. I've been researching these two speakers all year and every time I look up sound clips I'm pushed to the 1265. I love the 1275T and the 1265 is almost like a greenback trying to sound like a 1275T. Subscribed!

Nice talk guys. I really enjoy it!

I prefer the g12 65. Just got my hands on a 1980 vintage one. Used to have a 65 creamback, but found it to have a bit more going on in the low mids than I often find useful. Great video, thanks!

Guys, I seriously love how you talk about speakers. This care and love for the things you do makes you being one of the best guitar cabinet makers in the world.

You guys make great cabinets. Every speaker sounds perfect in it :)

I love my 1981 G12-65 speakers. Love them!

Great video. I have G12-65s in my 1981 JMP 50 watt Marshall combo so you were spot on with the dates. Really interesting that the cream back sounded quite muddy when distorted and the G12-65 almost a bit too top end. Mixed they were fantastic.

Well, I want to let you know that I liked the way these both sounded together in this video.. it impressed me so much that I just received my custom ordered Zilla (wide, vertical w/slanted baffle) cab 28x25x12 inches with these speakers (G12-65 on top) and better than I had even hoped. It sounds FANTASTIC!

Yeeesss finally! My fav speakers. I have both in my 2x12. I think to prefer the g12-65 for distortion in this video. Thanks for the comparison.

Definitely a great combo. I see where the appeal of having two of each comes in, especially the G12-65. I definitely need to explore that speaker more; I’d love to hear it in a cab with a V30 and another with a H Creamback 75.

You guys are putting out terrific content! I can’t tell you how many low quality speaker shootout videos I’ve watched. This sets the bar for quality. And I do really appreciate that you provide your opinions as you clearly are knowledgeable. Just a suggestion, perhaps put “speaker shootout” in the description or title to get more views. I’m no YT algorithm expert but I do believe there are a lot more guitarists that would value this content.

Def a low mid shift...G12-65; more scooped, brighter top end, more gritty/aggressive....Creamback; more low mids present, smooth breakup, less top end....they compliment each other well. Sounds awesome fellas!

12:08 you are describing my dream speaker. Warm, rolled of highs, lots of low mids, smooth.

When I bought my Zilla Fatboy for my Marshall JMP, I thought about these two speakers. Two normal G12M Greenbacks with 25w would not have been a good choice for my 100w Marshall head. AC/DC most likely recorded the Back in Black Album with G12-65s, so I thought about getting some old vintage speakers and ordering the Zilla unloaded. But in the end I chose the G12M-65 Creambacks. So this video was very interesting and informative for me. I have not regretted my choice by the way.

I like to think of the G12-65 as having an S shaped EQ curve. Lower in bass and upper mids, but a healthy dose of lower mids and top end. This makes it sound weird/characterful. It might explain why I've heard some people describe it as dark, and others bright. Maybe this makes it less easy to like. Similar to comparing a good dark chocolate, to a sugary milk chocolate. I like how it stays more composed under higher gain (creamback M flubs out to my ears). I also like how the g12-65 stays out of the way of a bassist in a band setting, and like the way a tubescreamer fills the hole in the upper mids, yet without becoming fatigueing in the way V30s can

The blend rocked!

I bought this combination to replace the 70/80's in my 212 cab. Very pleased with the blended tone

I really liked the pair together, more than each on its own. I have a Marshall 2159 running a cream back 65 and a Weber c1265 (his take on the g1265) and it sounds great

I think I slightly preferred the g12-65 on completely clean sounds but with more gain it's very hard to decide, because they're obviously different but both sound equally good, I couldn't choose. The Strat neck pickup cleans sounded beautiful by the way!

I have the G12-65 in my 65 Amps Tupelo Combo and my 65 Amps Lil Whiskey Combo, and love them. I have two G12M65s in a Marshall 4x12 on the top, with two Vintage 30s on the bottom, and I love that combination.

a mix of 2 speakers seems to always sound better...if you find the right one. My best match so far is 2 Vintage 30 (MESA) and 2 Alnico cream 90.

I think the combination sounded great. There was a three dimensional quality to it that was lacking when either speaker was used by itself. I thought the G12M-65 Creamback was good on its own, better than the G12-65 was on its own.

Just out've curiosity what part of the mixed sound did you guys not like personally? What is a proven speaker to pair with G12-65 in a 4x12?

Nice comparison and informative comments. I'm in the process of switching back a forth between 2 G12-65 with 2 M65's in a 2x12 Marshall 1936 cab to use with a 100w 1989 Marshall JCM800 2210 head. My preference keeps going back and forth. To me the G12-65's sound more modern with an upper midrange emphasis and the M65's sound more vintage-like with a low midrange emphasis and a little more bass. The G12-65's are perceived as being brighter and more brash than the M65's which by comparison sound warmer and darker. That's by comparison only. The G12-65's do seem to cut thru the mix better. On their own though, I think I like the M65's better and sound more similar to M25 Greenbacks (my favorite type of speaker) but with a bit more bass. The M65's have about 25-30 hours of playing time and the G12-65 only about 6-7 hours of playing time which might be making a difference. I also have a 4x12 cab with 4 G12-65's from 1980 that sounds incredible with all my amps. I used to use this cab with a 1974 50w Hiwatt head when I was performing. Curiously, the Hiwatt does not sound all that great with the 2x12 cab with M65's, but with the new G12-65's loaded it sounds nearly as good as the 4x12 cab with the old speakers. Go figure!

Great guy's Also Johan Segeborn has great demos as well on vintage speakers and amps So if you love this content you w love his as well Cheers fellow's Enjoy YES after hearing the playing the 65s are the way to go Either or So getting some for a couple vintage combo's If not happy for whatever reason back to stock but most combo's can use a speaker upgrade Even the Supro BK12 I purchased at the beginning of the year And think the headroom will make the gain structure of that amp sound much better 👌

woah, they are so different... it's all about that midrange innit? this is a great example of two different sounding speakers complementing each other really well. That G12-65 sounds way too "scooped 80's hairbands" for my taste but I love the sound of Greenbacks so that could be expected. I am still not completely sold on any of the creambacks, they sound to 'stiff' with overdrive when I compare to a nice broken in Greenback. I have recently upgraded to Creamback Alnicos which sounds way better than the G12H 75 Cream I tried but I have not sold my Greenbacks and G12H30 Anniversary speakers yet... To my ears there is very little difference between a lot of speakers but as soon as you apply a good amount of drive they get very different.

These sound very similar, especially clean. I suppose I prefer the plumper midrange of the M, but sometimes I like the slightly scooped, edgier vibe of the G1265. If I had one, I certainly wouldn't sell it to get the other. I have a G1265 that came in a Laney AOR Pro Tube 30 combo that I bought used. The amp is so middy that I never noticed that scoop.

The two reasons they tried to increase handling wattage was to not blow speakers which did happen fairly often because musicians were volume-crazy maniacs back then, no joke. And also for combo amps. The V30 was initially designed for a 1x12" combo and was touted for sounding more "vintagey" than the 65/70/75/80/100's. That's all there was to it. They all have their points, none were bad.

yes different wattage of virtually the same speaker changes the tone , character, and sound of the speaker. A great example of this in witch i need all 3 speakers are the Jensen jet Stealth Tornado 65, 80, & the 100. They all blend perfectly together and add distinct qualities of their own to the mix. Actual example are the brightness of the 65 and it's own cut of the range. And the 80's stretchy plexi sound and all it's midrange clarity, and lastly although not least the 100 with it's bigger bottom end clarity and it's own cut as well. All three speakers have a distinct similar character that blends them perfectly. i play metal and love them. Another speaker that is an absolute favorite over the V30 is the Celestion G12 50 Lynch back. Now i move on to the vintage 30. First of all amongst all other speakers they went out on a limb here to keep the very small spike that some love and hate. The vintage speaker is the brazillian rosewood of speakers. And do you know why? Thats correct, the same reason brazillian rosewood sounds so great, there are no less than 3, that is THREE simultaneous sounds eminating from them. Brazillian rosewood creates natural reverb as does indian rosewood. The V30 produces 3 speaker sounds simultaneously! It is in fact very broad pallete of usable sounds to culminate and produce amazing sound and clarity with all the grit and chug with high gain, and with it high gain it softens that small tiny spike it produces. It has crunch and smoothness and bright edge clarity that is needed on a stage using multiple cabs , a band with a bass player and loud drummer. This is an industry standard just like the mic that was used the shure sm58 and sm57 mic. On countless stage performances by 70's and 80's rock and metal industry as well as other music kinds. Well just for anyone out there that are into metaL i can give you a short list of speakers that have been used and established metal sound and heavy af sounds. the heavy af sounds require or make use of a rythum speaker and separate lead speaker because that is just the way it is. The best all round speaker for aggression or live performances is that V30.of course, however there are a few speakers that do heavy af sounds better , well or different. That cannibal corpse sound for example, some good mic placements on an Eminence V128 for example in a cab for that sound, can dominate and excel in some great metal styles with its unique owned character. Well this is getting long so sorry. i shall tell you my favorite speakers if you ask me. Build an oversize cab and put all your favorite speakers in it and have them switchable that is my advice to you all that is what i do. if you want i shall build you one. bye.

“High powered greenback”, that was said about the G12T-75 as well (I happen to like them). I’d like to try a Creamback for a 1x12 cab.

I recently got an old 90's Laney 2x12 cabinet that has the G12-65 in it. Man, I love that sound of that cab. It's not so mid forward like the Vintage 30's. It just has more beef to it.

Great video that helps a lot. I've used 2 creamback M65 16 ohms in // for few years in a vertical slanted 2x12" like yours (deep et wide). This video makes me wanted to try the mix of both cause i find the creamback a bit too low mid heavy, and want a bit of the high mid of the Heritage. If you can give me a last advice/your idea: in the context of a vertical slanted 2x12", assuming you explained well that it sounds not exact the same between up and down position, which one would you put up and which one down? Thanks a lot for the answer and your work. Cheers

I have a Fuchs 1x12 open back cab loaded with the G12-65. Paired with my Friedman Smallbox 50, it sounds perfect.

I’ve heard a few negative opinions on the newer creamback 65’s….I recently sold (like a dummy) a Marshall 4x12 w/stock 65’s and loved it because it was a pretty “dark” sound. Currently I’m running a hot jcm800 2204 into a 2x12 w/2 GK-85’s….was thinking about replacing one with either a G12-65 or a 25w greenback. Playing 80’s & modern rock stuff….what do you think would be a better choice ?

There is a lot of magic in G12-65 's tone somehow. No boxiness and no honkiness at all, that is.

With the Strat I thought both speakers together sounded good, and good singularly, the G12-65 is a bit brighter though. With the PRS and the heavier playing, I thought that both speakers together was a bit too spikey. The G12-65 is bit too brash on its own for me. I preferred the Creamback.

I've been using that combo in 2x12 for 8 years and they're absolutely fantastic together. My impression is that G12-65 bites and M65 Creamback compensates for it. Their combo really does have 3D sound quality as someone wrote in the comments. It's like... air is happy when pushed by these 2 in coalition. I highly recommend it.

Well.. I choose to mix the g12-65 with v30 while back (actually 2 v30s, 2 g12-65s in x pattern also in 2 different cabs) playing heavy to progressive style type of rock and loving it. Don't forget guys its a different world when your mixing your tones in a band mix and then ur realizing ur needing that Xtra cut ✂️ cuz guit tracks are getting buried...

You guys should shoot out all the internet's most hated speakers. G12M70's, G12T-75's (early models through to 90's and later) Peavey Sheffield 5150 1200's (which have different dust caps within the range). Guitar forums have ruined so much. Epic work as always chaps, I doff my cap to you both.

Guys - have you tried either of these speakers in a Mesa Boogie Mark 1 (reissue)? I’m trying to find the best speaker. Tried the recommend EV12, but it made the amp super heavy and I think it was a little too efficient. I’m using the amp in channel 1 (which combines both 1 and 2, providing some creamy gain). Thanks!

Nice sounds. What mics did you guys use? Sounds a lot finer than an sm57.

I think front mounting the creamback would make for an interesting video and compare to rear mounted G12-65 speakers. I am assuming these speakers are rear mounted?

Wow, thanks, very useful demo! Wonder if u can share your opinion, I was thinking about putting a g12-65 in a JCM800 1x12 combo (now with a g12m-70) and adding a closed back 112 cab with a Creamback 65... but you guys say these speakers don't match so well... I like what I heard but maybe it sounded a bit bloated with humbuckers? I will be using single coils though... What speaker do you think would be a good match for the closed back 1x12? I'm not into high gain, I won't even crank JCM800's gain knob. Thanks

So I just acquired a vintage 1980's Peavey Bandit 65 solo amp, and was shopping around for a new speaker, and Im really liking the tone of the G12-65. How do you think that might sound in a Peavey Bandit?

I have a 1987 Silver Jubilee 2553 that runs thru an Orange PPC 2 12 v speaker cabinet with the Celestin G12 Neo creamback's. I also have a 1988 Marshall JCM 800 4212 with the Celestin G 12 75's. I want to put a fresh set of speakers in the 4212 .I play in stereo, After watching this video, I am thinking the G 12 65. Just kicking down a notch from the G 12 75's. Any recommendation's or opinion's. I would like the speakers to compliment one another. Strengths and weaknesses.

I love how you say if you like leave a thumbs up if you don’t like don’t leave a thumbs down.. I liked.. so thumbs up it is!!!

Back in the day you basically had 2 ceramic celestions . You had the g12m 25 and the g12h30 . So if you said I have a marshall cab with 30 watt speaker everyone would know the cab had g12h30 .

The mix does sound pretty good.

The 65 large dust cap is strictly to keep cone more stable. To use a midrange friendly 1777 cone.

I’ve got a 4x12 1960a with 4 1985 g12-65s. Gonna take two out to put in a dumble clone cab. What should I replace them with. Was thinking greenbacks. Any suggestions?

So, is each speaker separated, sealed off from the other, inside the cabinet?

Which would match better with a JCM800 Studio Classic head and roll off the top end better?

HI guys! Have you ever compared speaker sensitivity charts and seen how similar some are? Have noticed something about how the sensitivity charts compare between speaker combinations that you like or dislike? For example, the G12-35XC almost exactly matches the G12H Creamback, drive.google.com/file/d/1-FbMQLfkPzuzj-EkAADcAGN9n-M0D7Um/view?usp=sharing. A combo that I like is a Blue with G12-EVH, drive.google.com/file/d/1ywONgjzrDBLVRDUtaMaFMcoziHkwv2Mh/view?usp=sharing. Another combo I liked was the G12M65 with a V30, drive.google.com/file/d/1uvJVPdeg0nZ2o4RlsJ4qlAB-sUpi4Ker/view?usp=sharing. A combination I did not like was V30 with H30 Anniv, drive.google.com/file/d/11eavzWx6Zj5NAko6zCmwvBtKBDExJIoC/view?usp=sharing. It seems like combos of speakers with more differences sound better to me that speakers with more similarities. At the moment, I'm really enjoying X35C with H30 55Hz, drive.google.com/file/d/1fNWqSXlhnkrHl16dB6f6lhMJISdide7m/view?usp=sharing.

Resonante frequency of speaker depends highly on the cone assembly. Lighter cones can't go as deep as the heavier cones. Stiffer spider and surrounding results in higher frequency. Bigger dust cap is often heavier then small one and should play into the hand of the weight of the cone hence lower frequency should be possible but it can be negated by the weight of the rest of the cone and by the stiffer spider and surrounding. Lighter cones can provide faster attack and should be able to play higher ranges with less issues but this highly depends on the stiffness of the cone. If the lighter cone is not stiff enough it will have more partial vibrations that can sound bad. So good cone is a good cone. It can be lighter or heavier go deeper or higher but on the end it is what sounds good and especially what sounds good to you.

Great video. I'm considering upgrading the 70/80 speaker in my Marshall DSL20C combo and both of these speakers are in the running. I'm leaning towards the Creamback based in your clips, as I think it would help to tame some of the high end fizz that the ultra gain channel has. Would welcome your thoughts.

To the G12-65 sounds more straight forward and it's less organic than the CreamBack. Moreover, the G12-65 really shines in the Midrange tones.

The dust cover size has a lot to do with the sound. Disperses and controls the high end a little more.

Cream back is better to my ears. Nice mids and highs. Very clear.

BTW 12-65 always makes me think about 80's and 90's Marshall sound. Think JCM800 at full blast. BTW funny enough I think that different character speakers mix best in the cabinets. They play to each other strengths mostly and supplement what is missing at the other end. To be honest I am not the biggest fan of the Creamback M. On other side I do love Creamback H. If I would be totally honest both miss the Pulsonic Greenback target but they are not reproduction of it anyways. Creamback M just tries so hard to be something that it did not became. Creamback H misses the targets to but creates new breed and sounds awesome to me. It does even sound a little bit alike as some version of the Rolla versions of the H. Anyways I like it. Pity but 12 65 fall out of love with me. Well as the time passes I just crave for different sounds. Interesting is how the taste changes like G12T75 was for me worse then 12 65 back then but now I have a a 4x12 from 1971, Marshall 1960B that was "upgraded" by someone in 1995 with G12T75 :( . I could not pass it. Speakers are well played in :) and cab sounds epic. When I got it I wanted to change speakers directly. Heard it with a good amp and it never happened. I guess played in speakers do mean a lot.

can you make a comparison between celestion g12-65 heritage vs warehouse guitar speacker et65

Great videos and content! I just wonder, is it possible to have too much watts in a speaker for a low wattage amp? For example, I know it’s a baad idea to have a single alnico blue or 25w greenback in a 50w amp or higher, but what about if you do the opposit? Is it a bad match?

I love it when they say "Heyche" instead of 'eyche.

I love UK! Cheers from Norway.

I have a 2x12 with the G12-65s.. the only downside is they have to be soldered in.. maybe they have changed them, mine are about 10 years old

This has to be one of the best pairings ever. 😅

In you opinion, how would a g1265 and a G12H75 pair in a 2x12 together for a metal player using a closed back with a jvm? Hoping to add a little midscoop and bass to offset the g1265.

The mix sounded best to my ears, maybe because it was louder. I seemed full across the spectrum.

Interesting….I have a couple of 4x12’s with V30’s(Marshall variant)…one is from 2003,the other from 1987…I love the V30 sound,but have been thinking of mixing 2 65’s or Creambacks with 2 V30’s,just for something different……After watching this,I am thinking maybe the 65’s would be the better choice,as they are so tonally opposite of the V30…..

What’s the best way to pair them in a cab x cross or 2 of the same in a 4/12 cab ?

I thought the mix of both speakers sounded really full-frequencied. Nice lows from the 65, great mid punch and cut from the Creamback...

Can you guys please please please do this with the Alnico Ruby and Alnico Gold????? Please.

I just sold my Creamback - my Greenback just sounds better. Maybe at super high volumes the creamback would be shine, but distortion tones just aren’t very articulate. I was curious if the classic g-12 65 might be a good fit for my Samamp (blackface) amp - from this demo it does seem to have a clearer high end . . .

I think these newer G12 65's sound great and I do prefer that sound over the G12m Creamback. I never had luck with the older vintage G12 65 speakers. I would like to hear the new G12 65 next to some older vintage examples. I know people like the older vintage G12 65 but how is it that I had tried many times with different years of the G12 65 and never liked them. They always sounded too scooped. These newer ones sound better to me. I'm thinking the new G12 65 isn't quite as scooped as the older examples.....yes I know they had many variations of the same speaker but I never found any I liked where as I do like the new ones quite a bit. They have to sound different.

The G12-65 is more scooped while the M65 Creamback has a creamy mid-focus.

Probably the last celestion video i'll watch from any channel for like 5 years unless it's a shootout between wgs, eminence, jensen etc, quick sound clip switching with high gain...

Some of the creambacks have different cones . Some have pulsonic cones and some have RIC cones and some kurt Mueller cones .

the new Creambacks being voiced similarly to the greenbacks but having higher wattage rating (for combo amps and 2x12/1x12 cabs) are quite the nod to vintage "creambacks", though.

Maybe someone on here can help with an issue I'm running into. Bought a nice vertical slanted 2x12 with V30's, swapped the top one out for a H75 creamback. The cab lost almost all of its bass. However when I put the H75 in an open back 1x12, soooooo much bass. Cant figure out why.

I did the same test with a celestion 7080 and Peavey 6534+ 120 watt head and 3 minutes is all the 80 wattage speaker could handle until it smelled funny an I stopped. The speaker was fine after that and sounded killer in and orange RV so😊

Prefer the creamback. That’s what is in my Runt 50 combo

Heritage 65 sounds better and more open sounding on the dirty stuff imo.

Interesting the M65 Cream back sounds fatter and warmer than the G1265. And that's surprising to me since the G1265 has a large dust cap which I associate with broader and bigger tones. Yet the M65 sounds fatter and warmer. :)

i thought 'g12 - 65' was made for NWOBHM ? i thought that one sounded good on the power chords . it would be great hear some vintage speakers like elacs , goodmans.

Is it not a fact that the higher the wattage, the slower to speaker break up? i.e. a 100 watt speaker is 'cleaner' than a 30 watt speaker.

I didnt like the mix, the fundamental got shifted into the sub area. Both shifts the low up to the lo mids, and together they cancelled eachother. 65, 65m, and rockdriver jr is on my top 3 so far

prwfer the 65 but sometimes is a little thin

I wish the creamback 65 sounded anything like the 25w greenback

The creamback m65 has alot more low end than a greenback.

g12m-65 and a vintage 30 ftw

Put the volume all the way up, but I can’t hardly hear you talking

Just don't dump any Laney stock HH 1265s if you have any. Best G1265 and M65s clones ever. And then the Eminence Tonker.

imho - you can't close mic these and get an accurate sound for a human ear. The comb filtering that goes on at that distance and cone/dust cap shape differences affect the freq response too much. Mic from back 6+ ft back in a dead room. Thx anyway.....

Dude on the right sounds like Michael bisbing!

G12m-65 can be described as being more modern hi fi sounding. As for pairing, they are too similar in a way and that causes cancellations between the two.

15 minutes and 40 seconds of talking before the sound part.