Cersei Lannister Genius or Stupid? ASOIAF | Winds of Winter Discussion 

My favorite quote about Cersei comes from AltShwiftX: “If anyone can fool Cersei, it would be Cersei.”

“I don’t distrust you because you are a women, I distrust you because you’re not as smart as you think you are.” -Tywin Lannister

The caged lion is a really apt title for her for a few reasons and it really does get into why she is the way she is. Part of why Tyrion is so much 'smarter' than cersei is just that he's been able to experience more. He's been able to travel a LOT, was encouraged to read, study, etc. And of course being smart has always been part of his character but he's been able and encouraged to do a lot in his life that's shown him how capable other people are, and has added to his own abilities a fair bit. He's still hugely entitled, which leads him to do stuff like kill Shae, but he's a bit less arrogant than his siblings. Jaime also has been exposed to a lot of other people and things, including ugly shit like aerys. He's been able to see that like 'all men must die' and the harm ego does to people's decision making (aerys letting tywin in). He also had a skill he could be proud of, and although he was arrogant in that, he had less arrogance elsewhere because he knew what he was good at and enjoyed. Young tywin had military experience, got to ride around a bit, etc. Definitely always had a strong personality but also got to see and do stuff. Cersei got married pretty young, has lived in exactly 2 places ever, and although now she chooses to avoid new experiences (the big carriage), historically these things have been denied to her. She's never been encouraged to study anything, seemingly all shes learned about being a Lady is self or septa taught plus whatever she overheard from tywins advice to *Jaime*. Cersei is definitely the Lannister with the least opportunity to learn anything new and that definitely has hindered the tools she has to work with. She's great at identifying problems but has a hammer, a wrench, and a chainsaw, and 90% of the time goes for the chainsaw. She's probably the most cunning of the kids but just cannot make good maneuvers with the skills shes got and has no interest in learning.

I find Cersei, especially towards DwD, to be exceptionally short sighted. Not stupid, but she can only see two or three moves ahead at most. Power seems to only be useful when it’s shared. And Cersei never learned to share.

What strikes me about Cersei in Feast is just how much her actions hurt Tommen. For instance, refusing to let Ser Loras train him, and never actually getting a new master-at-arms means he goes without martial training. All so she can screw over the Tyrells

Beating Ned at the Game is a very low hanging fruit.

On a scale of 1-10. With 1 being Hodor and 10 being Mace Tyrell I give Cersei a solid 6 out of 10. She’s above average but not enough for it too Help her very much.

I don’t know if she’s a genius, but she’s cunning, to a fault sometimes. And idk about dumb either, her arrogance is her downfall in most of her blunders. Cersei is so awesome as a character. Extremely nuanced even if she’s clearly a villain.

In the books, she's just completely mad and pretty dumb. In the show, she was a lot better. I actually thought Cercei was a good bad guy in the show. Kate, on the other hand, was completely stupid and childish in the books. She fucked up time and time again. She convinced Ned to go down south because she wanted to go down south, then, he was like, im going without you, and she still went down south

I think Cersei is very intelligent. She’s just not strategically smart. Majority of her idiotic decisions were made out of spite or pettiness like putting the High Sparrow in charge to spite Maergary. Or beheading Missendei to spite Daenaerys. All her decisions always backfired in her face.

Cersei has an intellect. That does not make her wise. Part of that lack of wisdom is that she tends to think precisely one step past whatever she has currently identified as a problem and that comes with a lack of foresight with regards to potential consequences.

I don’t think she’s dumb, but like Tywin says, she’s not as smart as she thinks she is (and she can be very rash and not think steps ahead) I think she suffers from thinking that because Tywin is her father and he’s brilliant that she is just as clever, even though she lacks so many of the traits that made him brilliant

Cersei also does not think that there could actually be a sincere higher up holding the top spot in the Faith -she thinks they are all corrupt and purchasable. So the High Sparrow is a fanatic, which is a big surprise to her, because she also never thinks of the rank and file of believers as important either - and never noticed that they were starving and dying in war, and the survivors have taken over the Faith and they are mad...

I think because D&D decided to make Cersei the main antagonist of the series by season 5, they made her smarter than her book counter part. That version being pretty dumb and spiteful

Why didn’t Ned demand a trial by combat? I was just curious.

I think that when she is in a low emotional state, Catalan is actually one of the best players of the game. Throughout all of the second and third book she does a great job at navigating the politics of Westeros up until it concerns her daughters. Only then does she start acting erratic, but when she's normal and calm, she's much smarter than Cersei

As Tyrion would say I consider her above average intelligence But that doesn’t translate to being smart As if you believe you are smart without actually doing anything to learn or improve you end up making stupid decisions based on ego and arrogance which leads to ignorance and conscious stupidity Only when they are humble do they make a correct decision

Cersei created the monster that is Joffrey.

how would you think jamie would have reacted or how his arc would have changed when cersei and king robert became a loving couple?

I view TV show Cersei above average intelligence book Cersei below intelligence. Cersei's biggest weaknesses is that she can't see the long term consequences of her actions and acts on emotion rather then what is logical. If Cersei just gave birth to an heir and a spare with Robert and never slept with her brother that would have been the logical thing to do but Cerseis narcissm and pride caused her to sleep with Jaime despite the disasterous consequences (War of the Five Kings) should it come it out.

Lol the irony of criticizing someone's intelligence and then you spell the word genius as "Genuis"

Cersei is the Uncle Junior character

How Dare you suggest ma queen! Being dumb! Blasphemy!

Cersie is a fool she's scheming and spiteful and is clever in that regard but she doesn't think about her actions in any way at all before hand she does it then thinks "oh well I'm sure nothing bad will come from this"

I'd say she's slightly above average. Like took a store manager and put them in a position of political power.

Cersei is a narcissist who constantly overestimates her intelligence. I love when she gets slapped down.

Her plot to have Robert get killed by the boar was purely nonsensical and there was no guarantee that it was going to work given that it was said Robert was an expert hunter when it came to hunting boars .plus Ser Barristan and Renly were with Robert during the hunt. It is an absolute miracle that dumb plan actually worked. 😂😂😂

Dumb. Just dumb. Book Cersei would’ve made a good brutal war general. Politics? Not so much

Now I'm not saying Cersei's chapters aren't enjoyable; I actually love them; but I've got to go the other way on this Grease. She's an imbecile. Where to begin...perhaps the most idiotic thing Cersei did was thumb her nose at the Iron Bank. Not only did this plunge the realm into financial chaos because the IB started calling in everyone's debts, but it pushed them into an alliance with Stannis. If not for the valonqar prophecy I'd say she signed her own death warrant by snubbing them. And what'd she do with the funds appropriated to the IB? Used them to build ships for an up-jump charlatan who seduced his way onto the small council and stole the boats. She was also thisclose to making that same charlatan Lord of Rosby, which would've been a perilous mistake because it controls a sizable portion of King's Landing's food supply. Cersei was also the one who named Gregor Clegane as the crown's champion in Tyrion's trial, which put him in the exact position Oberyn wanted. And the absurdity of putting a hit on Prince Trystane...There's probably more examples if I really thought about it lol. Cersei's a schmo; no if ands or buts!!

Cersei's being unable to understand her weakness and limitations it's what limits her, also shr never received an education in politics like for example Margaery or Olenna, Tywin after Joanna dead ignored Cersei, and in a way Cersei only saw that she was weak cause she was a woman, she embraced the misogynist view that many had, and she being a narcissist didn't help her at all

I think she started out as smart as average, but got all wrapped up in conspiracy and prophecy and suspicion. She gives way too much credit to her "blood" as a qualification to rule, when she should study and learn how to rule.

It's gotta bother Cersei that EVERY time she needs to find someone to fill a vacancy, she's gotta look for a man. If she were smart, she might have taken a lesson from history. Wasn't there a time when they needed a Master of Coin... and they put a man in that position because his WIFE had that talent? Counting apples... I think... so maybe it was a Fossoway or a Rowan... but do you know the one I'm talking about? Maybe Cersei should have been looking specifically for THESE types of people because a lot her problem stems from the male dominance in their culture... and her resentment of it.

Cersei is a midwit and she's overly cruel and brutal. She never understood Tywin or his brutality, he was brutal sparingly and for a reason and afterwards he had his reputation to prevent other rebellions.

It seems to me that Cersei is intelligent but was intentionally taught wrong by Tywin.

I wouldn’t say completely stupid but she lacks critical thinking