my parents ALWAYS use the fact that they gave me money, an education, and a better life than they had to justify why they are allowed to control every aspect of my life and abuse me for disagreeing with them. their parents did not care about their education at all and didn’t give them money so they think they are better at parenting than my grandparents. the reason why my parents cared so much about my education is because if i became a doctor or lawyer it would help their image. in their culture your children must get phds and be part of the 1% or your children are failures. my father said he is ashamed of all his children because none of us are doctors and his friend’s children are all doctors.
I'm so sorry that your father said he was ashamed of you. I hope you have other people who praise you for who you are. I don't think that makes up for hearing those words from your parent, but I do hope you have people who value and acknowledge you.
There is also no shame in being sensitive. It just means you're onto someone, you're intelligent enough to realize what is going on and they are afraid of you spreading the word. By us fearing emotions that are sensitive instead of seeing them as useful is not allowing yourself to harness it as a super power and the narcissistic person or even their enabler will win in silencing your very powerful voice.
@ 36 I finally said "you should be asking what is wrong with YOU that YOU'RE not sensitive enough about what happens to your own child!" the response... "you know what? I feel sorry for you..." I hung up 😄 perfect time to shut it down 😊
Yeah. As an African, the cultural aspect is so important. I'm pursuing a separation from my unfaithful spouse and my family, his family and the church are saying "hey, he's not beating you. you should stay". Meanwhile, my sister's SIL who's being beaten is told "You need to pray more to get him to come to his senses". The culture enables this rubbish
This hits home. My Narc husband was raised in a foreign land by his parents who migrated and had to start from scratch. They were obsessed with superficiality... money, status, power... and emotionally neglected their children during their quest for success. When they finally made it big, they compensated for the earlier neglect by overindulging them. The swing from one extreme to another resulted in an imbalance and a dysfunctional family system. They believed they were above everyone else and defined others by their superficial worth. It certainly was no fun being thrust into this dynamics.
How ridiculous is that? I was born poor in one of the worst states of Brazil, moved to Australia eventually and have plenty now. I'm nothing but loving and empathetic, because I know how bad it can get and I know just how much luck is involved in life. You'd think the same would've been the case for them but narcissism runs too deep unfortunately
Dead Islander, I spent so many years trying to understand this baffling toxicity. They are so ashamed of their past that they’d lie about it too. As far as they are concerned, poverty is a shameful stigma they never wish to be reminded of, hence their defensive behaviour.
Nelumbo Nucifera Exactly! It's something that should be acknowledged, some healthy pride can be derived from it even if they were healthy enough to do it right, because surviving something like poverty is no small feat. I'm proud of the fact i survived, I have friends who have been shot at and etc... I made it out alive. Whatever the situation with your narcissistic husband is, I hope you make it out too
Dead Islander, thank you for your kind words. I was a wreck for as long as I was associated with him and his family. It was too toxic because I was the total opposite of them (thankfully😅). Separated and moving on now. Your survival story is inspiring and good to know there’s a happy ending. Congratulations! Stay blessed. My best wishes to you😊
This happens in high context cultures. After spending nearly 2 years in my late mother's country of origin ( in the middle East), I was shocked to find myself amidst several relatives and individuals with these narcissistic traits. Not to mention the manipulation and deceit that is enabled on a societal level, but the immaturity and smear campaigning I witnessed and was on the receiving end of, goes beyond any reasonable understanding.
My partner and I are both testaments to the fact that you can go through hell and not become a narcissist, so a history of trauma isn't an excuse for a narcissist's abuse. On my side of things, my narcissistic family members perpetuate white supremacy, homophobia, and misogyny in the US. Even though they're poor and generations of trauma bread generations of narcissists, they still use their privilege to hurt others and they made my life a living hell (the first 25 years of it at least). I bet you can guess who my parents--and most of my extended family--voted for in 2016... My husband, on the other hand, grew up under a dictatorship in Latin America and experienced severe poverty and he has NEVER once abused me or used his background as an excuse to hurt anyone. His home country (Chile) is a very classist, paternalistic, and racist society and his parents abused him and his brothers, but he decided not to perpetuate the abuse. He's a very vocal anti-racist, pro-feminist, and pro-LGBTQ rights person. Anyway, just thought I'd share--a traumatic past never excuses abuse. The cycle ends with us 💜
I always wondered why my mom said so many nasty, hurtful things to me when I was younger, especially when I didn't have the words to talk back. Because I was small and powerless and she thought I would forget everything. Ironically she has amnesia from abusing prescription meds. She doesn't remember anything when it's convenient. There was nothing wrong with me, there was something with her... I think subconsciously she wanted me to have all the issues that she had. It wasn't fair to her to see me happy when she was never happy. I do feel sorry for her.
"she thought I would forget everything." This is so messed up and so many parents seem to think this way. Would they be okay with abusing a senile old person, just because they won't remember? I doubt it. Children just aren't seen a real people by many. Simply trying to see them as real people would make a huge difference.
Around 4:30 - 5:00 in the video, Dr. Ramani makes an excellent point. If your partner has been hurt by cultural/intergenerational family patterns, he or she needs to seek therapy. You can't fix this for them, and their behavior toward you won't change without their willingness to work on changing with the support of a therapist. I'd like to add one more thing - beware of a partner who shows up for therapy but isn't actually willing to do the work. "I'm going to therapy" is different from "I'm working on my stuff in therapy." I made the mistake of waiting in hope for several years while my ex went to therapy for several years and then used "But I'm not well, so I can't be held responsible for what I do," and "But I'm going to therapy, so you have to forgive me." Please save yourself from my mistake. If your partner is using "I'm in therapy" as an excuse to continue to abuse you, things are not going to get better.
Yes. I have heard that can happen. That is the reason I will not suggest that in my situation. I am afraid I would be setting myself up for more gaslighting, etc.
“Don’t be so sensitive.” “Take a pill.” “Get over it.” “What do you have to be tired for? You don’t have two young kids.” (not by choice). “You did nothing to change.” (and yet I tried my hardest, under wrong diagnosis and treatment) “Leaving but maybe in time” (so, he could hoover when I’m “good enough” again) Nope. I’m not your punching bag. I’m not your scapegoat. Done. I will NOT be shamed, guilt tripped, for putting up HEALTHY boundaries.
Questioning your elders wasn’t an option in my home. Respect them no matter what they do to you. Whatever they said goes regardless if it was respectful or disrespectful and if not god was going to punish you and your a bad person.
This lesson begs the question of societal narcissism. Cultural narcissism flows from a toxic culture where the narcissist leaders are supported by an entire population who claim “golden child” status, then scapegoat vulnerable populations. Hopefully you can do a series on this. It appears to be the direction certain groups are pushing the United States towards: a tyranny of the entitled “haves” over the “have-nots”.
Such as Raise the Red Lantern movie. One wife goes nuts, one is killed, one is mischievous and diabolically cunning, one sickly obedient and their husband their God on earth. Sickening! And the way all the drama develops among them without any of them saying their own minds freely and openly reminds me of the culture I grew up in!
"Live a life that they programme for you that doesn't have nothing to be with who you are and how you are". That is happening to me. But it is not being done by one person but by a multitude. INCREDIBLE.
My heart goes out to all lgbtq+ people in the us south/rural religious cultures. There’s nothing wrong with you- you just bring up the fears and insecurities that live in them 24/7
Thank You Doctor Ramani! Yes, I spent my entire adult life making excuses for my cultural/covert narcissist dad, because of his up-bringing by previous generation...and of course it didn't do any good whatsoever. Us kids were constantly criticized and even neglected by him, which to him was of course "normal"...
GASP! Omg, this video was SOOO helpful! There it IS.....finally hearing that the NARCs chose to abuse. People would always say, "your parents had it hard" and I would feel guilty and stuff my feelings...over-and-over-and-over-and-over; until I lost my health at age 50! Thank you, Dr. Ramani.
Thank you Dr. Ramani 🙏🏼🧡 I was constantly making excuses, he grew up in poverty, he has PTSD from hearing gun shots throughout childhood, his experience with racism. He needs professional help and my love, empathy and kindness was never enough.
I feel like I grow up a narcissistic country, get hurt from parents, teachers, sister , mother In law, sister in law or another authority.Seem like everyone have right and privilege to above you, to shame you or humiliate you.You do not allow become who you are, because they do not allow to become who they are, so their job is do not allow their generation become who they are, this is country culture.
That’s generational curses and it doesn’t have to be passed on to your children or grandchildren. It can stop with YOU!! Peace and blessings as you transform
I'm a survivor, on a way to thrive. 💪🏽 I know, If I can do it, you all can! 🔥 It might sound crazy, but I think that everyone that's a narcissist-magnet must come across a strong damaging narcissist, once in their lifetime. 🤔 The reason is: we have been so primed to take the abuse that it doesn't feel so, unless someone thrashes us left, right and centre. It's deeply agonizing, but a wake-up call. 🔔 Apart from getting healed from the abuse of one narcissist, we get trained in escaping such monsters in future. 🏋️ The universe has loads of energy for you, you need not depend on any sadist to derive it from. 🌞 More power to all the good people out there! 🌍 You CAN do it! 💜
Ahh hit the nail on the head here. My parents were so full of stories of their youth and how they were victims in some way, or let down or things didn't go their way. No wooonder I was so riddled with guilt for soooo looong. I think I felt guilty for my whole childhood and up until recently. Never felt comfortable expressing myself freely infront of them. Constantly walking on eggshells and totally unaware that this was even an issue for the most part because it was all I knew- if I did have an inkling I quickly burried it deep deep to the back of my mind, probably as a survival mechanism. I had very very strong instincts as a toddler and young child and slowly suppressed them as I grew up. As I become more and more alive and aware now, my intuition is being revived! My body is like a compass :) My god. I'm so glad I'm over it all now.
This series on cultural/generational narcissism hit me in such a fundamental way. I think I started to dissociate because it’s so overwhelming. I felt sad and I wanted to cry. This is good information, though 👍🏻
I recently ended a relationship with a woman who was raised in a family where her grandfather's generation were the movers and shakers in our community and she to this day feels that she could get away with pretty much anything and because of her last name wouldn't be held to account to the same degree as the rest of us. Her mother's generation was a fall from grace with crime and drug use. When an unexpected pregnancy put strain on our relationship, the manipulation and gaslighting reared its head. I found myself internalizing, self blaming, and feeling very guilty for "making her feel" bad about herself when I tried to get her to understand my perspective and hold her to account for how her decisions affected me. Ironically, her actions that now i understand were designed to keep me in the relationship actually motivated me to self preserve and leave. Obviously its more complex than I've laid out here, but understanding this element of generational narcissism has been hugely helpful in understanding where her behavior was learned. As tempting as it is to mother her and try to give her the empathy and love she may not have gotten in the past, I ain't going back! This is one lesson I don't want to have to learn over and over again. Thanks for putting this out there. I agree that this IS the psychological issue of our time! Here's to a healthier future!
Anyone else raised Jamaican 🇯🇲 or island who don’t talk about feelings or deal with the past 🙋🏾♀️ Anyone else raised by black peoples who still believe the white man is the problem and take no accountability for their actions 🙋🏾♀️ Man there’s videos are so needed and helpful!!! 🙌😭
I am processing my trauma and have hurt others in the past. I agree so much about the resentment, frustration, and anger in new groups or areas (jobs, new families, and friend groups) and how those emotions bleed into them from unprocessed experiences. Our minority groups for sure are hurting each other...standing together ❤ in the past week will hopefully continue to create change, a deeper understanding of how all people are hurting, and that it's really time we process to dismantle the division. #ripgeorgefloyd
Coming as you do from a stratified class based culture, I find what you've learned as to be truth fascinating; narcissism is a natural fit for study. I truly enjoy your practical approach to explaining this phenomenon. Looking forward to your next trade book, perhaps a connect the dots in sociology, religious-narcissism... By the way still reading 'Don't you know who I am'; as the expression goes 'how do you eat an elephant? answer, slowly one bite at a time'.
Wow, I was going to skip this unit because I thought it was self explanatory. This is excellent! It answers questions I didn’t know I had. Dr. Ramani, I admire you; your drive, your enthusiasm and your thought process ( brain, intelligence).
Everything you've spoken in this and the previous episode were things that I've always felt and understood after much pondering. These were things that I thought no one will understand even of I was able to put it in words...... and there you go on about it so fluently like a flowing stream. It truly feels like something hard and heavy inside has melted away. Looking forward to the 3rd part.
I am from upstate New York and I see this pattern in my own family, and in so many of the families and where I come from. I attended various bible-based churches tbroughout my 20s, and it seemed like I was hearing a common story everywhere I went: " I grew up Catholic", " dad was an alcoholic," " I didn't know the Lord," "the nuns were awful!" " dad worked all the time!" Some combination of religiosity workaholism, alcoholism, rageaholism. All sorts of 'isms! Over time, I came to see that this was kind of a common trend. Probably a reaction to the trauma of immigration that those people went through. A lot of people who came here at the turn of the last century from Italy, Germany, Poland, Ireland, various other countries in Europe, they brought a lot of these patterns of behavior with them. It was the times and the culture. They also left alot of hardship in Europe. I think subsequent generations, especially the Baby Boomers,felt very torn between the old world values of their parents and the freedoms they had in the New World. That's when you started to see a lot more intermarriage. People also worked hard for the American dream.
Your videos have been so helpful to us, parents of an adult son who has recently been diagnosed with narcissm. After he left for college, it’s been 17+ years of heartbreak. We’ve spent countless hours and many years trying to understand what’s wrong and why, including therapy for ourselves. The lies, manipulations, loss of a career, and cheating in every relationship has taken its toll on our whole family. We’ve had to distance ourselves from him, to protect our own health, but we grieve terribly. We’ve spent years self reflecting and do not know of any trauma, or abuse, and didn’t love him based on what he accomplished. Both of our children have described their childhood as the best- they were loved and lived with parents who loved each other. Our son is very much like my brother, who is selfish and self absorbed. Is there any research that to indicate this condition is genetic? Most information about narcissism relates to couples, so would it be possible to do a video for parents in our situation? Thanks for all the info.
Miss Nokweh I’m speechless that you would make such a rude comment when you know nothing about us our situation. We have sought counseling throughout the years and have no clue about the cause. We are hurting parents and my question was directed to Dr. Ramani.
I was in a relationship with a narcissistic girl a year before and understood by myself that being narcissistic was her survival mechanism against a toxic environment she was living upon and brought upon, She had her own share of sexual abuse history. But sonner or later our relationship turned toxic with me unable to satisfy her needs, I was pathetic with my boundaries and that resulted in me becoming toxic, We broke up but still even after a year I am unable to pinpoint what made our relationship take a wrong path. Me not setting healthy boundaries or her being narcissistic. This video actually helped me understand the dynamics of these kind of relationships.
Yes, yes, yes! Sounds exactly like my ex. His Mom treated him like a God, and she was impossible to please. There was no room for a healthy relationship amongst them, nor his own kids for that matter. Thank you, Dr Ramani, for making sense of the nightmare I found the balls to finally escape from 🙏🏽💗
thank you for exploring this concept! being first generation is a real burden because its like being raised by your grandparents! your videos are the validation of all my unheard un-gaslit beliefs that i never got at home or from my tribe
This is such a useful video!! My family always use the line 'we are above the law, we can do what we want' and other sayings in regards to their privilege. Their entitlement disgusts me
A good one Dr Ramani, the more I think about it, sometimes cultural narcicism make someone feel not grateful enough because she/he has been taken care of. I agreed, that's such difficult feelings to proccess.. and finally they feel hopeless.. Unfortunately psychotherapy is still heavily stigmatized...😖😖😖just like What u said.. Really resonate with many Indonesian people.. Thank you.. God bless you Doctor.. 🤗🤗🤗 🙏🙏🙏
Brilliant explanation! I love these series and you, Dr Ramani. In a 12-Step program I was in, people would say about a woman in the program "She had a horrible childhood," and enabled this woman (very much like my mother) to keep being awful toward members. Hearing that, what was I to do? Put up with her crap? My eyes crossed! It felt like a pile of shit on a table to me. Since then, after studying narcissism with you and other wonderful counselors on youtube and my EMDR sessions, I am radically accepting that this woman and her flying monkeys won't change, and I needed to get out of this program. What a spiritual liberation it's been! I look forward to your daily lessons and say Thank you, Dr Ramani after listening to you.
I typically don't watch videos past 4 minutes but I felt seen and heard, and my card was pulled out and shown to the crowd. I have been silenced and invalidated all my life. I endured a lot in my backstory and she's right we can learn and protect ourselves from further hurt. Culture plays a MAJOR Part and man it has damaged so many. No one listened to me as a child just gave me money. I had everything so why was I complaining about molestation and the list goes on? I was thought of as entitled so people like me didn't need a voice cause I didn't have it as hard as though who came from my culture. SMH so proud of myself to know I deserve better.
Extremely informative series! After this series, could you please do a video on the coming together of a narcissist with someone who has narcissistic tendencies - whether that's in a very close friendship or a relationship. Does one enable the other? Or does the dominant one suppress the other? And how does psychology explain those kind of bonds.
I say, understanding doesn't mean undergoing more, boundaries and breaking thegenerational chain by getting information on better educational examples and not being abusive. I always say, let your children tell and show who they are, and than love, protect and guide them.
@@monalisharoy248 as i understand from dr ramani, you ether cut the connection or you go gray rock. I Think the right thing to do is stop excusing yourself for is behavior and look for professional help to deal Witherspoon the negative émotion Be strong
Monalisha Roy Don’t act like a victim. It activates the predator/prey drive in a narc. Even if u do t feel it, embody confidence. Say as little as you can because your words dont matter. Hope this helps.
My father is an interesting case. He is a benign cultural neglectful narcissist. If that makes any sense. He also had alcohol abuse issues until his late 40s, during the worst episodes he would be quite malignant or coverty. However, after quitting drinking he became rather mild. He is still emotionally stunted, but he definitely tries to be more present and has left his malignant streak behind. He became a good, though a little bit emotionally distant, father figure. In many ways it’s because he needs our supply, but also his narcissism doesn’t make him evil, we just had to all learn to communicate and understand our limits, and not take it personally.
Im so glad you covered this topic. I noticed this in not just my family but my husband's also. And trust me, I stick out like a sore thumb in both. After dealing with both toxic sides for many years, i have small contact with any of them. Thank God for series like these.
Thank you for this. I was beginning to think nobody understood this sort of thing. Victims in this dynamic need clarity and you are offering that big time.
I've had and still have CPTSD due to certain life experiences, but I still know what I deserve and what I don't. I know when silence is better and I know when to speak. One thing I will never stop doing us sticking up fir myself which is what I could never do with a clear conscience when I was being abused by family or intimate Partners. Even if I never saw them again. 🍒
In our culture, everyone who sticks out gets told not to think they’re special and don’t think your better than anyone else, does that fight or create narcissism?
All my answers of what I wanted to be when I grew up got shot down as a child. If I wanted to be a hairdresser it was no good because they stand up a lot and get their legs ruined. if I wanted to be a teacher it wasn't good because they couldn't take a vacation when they wanted (when it was cheaper to travel) only when schools were out. There was always these "truths" about everything. I was supposed to be a judge (no regard for my interest or personality at all) The grownups seemed to be impressed by this answer when they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I used it as a shield to be in their good graces, but it didn't help me to figure out what I really wanted. I just tried to survive my childhood. So when it was time to apply to the universities and I tried to get my mom to tell me what I should apply to, she threw me to the wolves saying that how should she know. I remember bawling, being so incredibly alone and isolated (she was a single mother and used me as an extension of herself. "We" liked to have long hair, "we" didn't like adventure movies and so on). Thankfully I had a guardian angel that steered me to applying to a school several hours away which I got accepted to. The only thing she said when the decision came was "Well start looking for an apartment then since you need to be moving out". I'm so thankful that I was able to move out that early on. I'm 40+ now and am finally starting to figure out what I really want and love who I am. There was never anything wrong with me! Which makes me a bit bitter sometimes, all that lost time and all that fear I had in my twenties. I was terrified to do anything. The final straw that pushed me was when she said recently that I've been doing whatever I wanted since I was 20 and she and her mother had no influence on me whatsoever. Not even when I reminded her how she, her mother and a family friend bullied me to get back to school when I decided to take a break. NO personal responsibility at all which makes it easier for me to dismiss her and live my truth now.
Both sides of my family have been severely shaped by WWII. One side had a patriarch who was an officer in the Canadian forces, the other side had both a German teen soldier, and a family that escaped Nazi occupation (they met in Canada later on). The first lead to a grandiose narcissist family, the second to a covert narcissist family. Both are messed up. I'm tired of being tired of it, and I have my OWN shit to deal with that has nothing to do with mental states. In the words of St Lawrence "FLIP ME OVER I'M DONE".
In my experience, cultural narcissist are the creation of society and well supported by customs and traditions and practice. I have also seen one narcissist supporting other narcissist to victimize. Often seen in classic in-laws cases where daughter in law is duty bound to repect in laws, not to argue and quietly listen whatever rubbish they say. It is cultivated as good manners in her otherwise, she is viewed as illmannered. Those who witness this culture, like sons, become a narcissist as they get privileges becoming one and it is a human nature to choose the easy way.
I was with my ex who is Indian for 2.5-3 years as friends and then lovers. She could never commit because she couldn't get her parents approval. They had asinine financial requirements for their daughter (guy needs to make 6 figures, no debt, and 100k at least in the bank) and she wasn't from some upper class family - her family was in a suburb in Detroit when they moved and she was very young. They did have servants in India but here in the US just another lower-middle class family but her parents ended up working corporate for several of the major car companies in the area up there. She wouldn't budge on family's financial requirements where as my folks had no such input on my love life and just wanted me to be happy and find a good girl preferably. She had a lot of anxiety talking to her mom over the phone and we bonded over our past trauma's with our parents (her mom and my dad) from our childhood/teenage years. However I would be lying to say she also didn't have some of the negative behaviors and didn't cope with conflict or disagreement very well if at all and while I struggled I grew where as she barely grew at all. We lived through Covid together and while that put alot of stress I grew and we both said I love you to each other and started really upping our affection. While not perfect everything seemed to be ok up until her parents put pressure on her to find a suitor and she was turning 28 in May, me turning 34 (our birthdays a week apart). She asked me if it was ok to compare other friends of ours and I didn't take her serious even though she produced an excel spreadsheet categorizing the various financial and other list of requirements according to her and her parents. When I went to go home to be at my mother's retirement party she told me she was going to try dating one of our friends from the list even though we had just gone to Denver earlier and had celebrated each other's birthday. Long story short that guy didn't work out but it caused me to panic when she dropped the news at the last minute that she was doing this while I was away. We did get back together but it only lasted for several months until the other friend had moved into town and I think she had decided she wanted to try him out as a suitor much to my heartbreak. This all happened while she considered me her best friend and favorite person (not BPD reference). Funny enough while both guys are well off engineers theyre also both simps and she wanted apparently someone to take care of her and spoil her. This never was really the case before the May time frame and while she wasn't perfect she made efforts to show love (not love bombing) and show affection to me and show empathy to others besides myself. I'm not sure where her head or heart is and I'm wondering if she may have BPD rather than NPD but her mother I know has instilled in her some toxic behaviors and ideas that will never allow her to be in a happy relationship and while it breaks my heart to see someone who was my best friend and lover be with someone else (now on guy 3 down in west palm away from the group she had made in Melbourne FL, it breaks my heart even more to see her spiral down such a toxic path and her "image" that she cared so much about now mean practically nothing up here though no one will say anything mean to her. I miss her and wish I could talk sense into her but I would be fighting her toxic family/cultural programming. As a loving Christian I'll always love her and be open to taking her back but all that would depend on her and her decisions to break the cycle and to realize there's a problem.
Explanations for behavior are not excuses for it continuing. That one is hard for enablers to understand. What is often left out of these generational abuse discussions is morality - not a popular subject in modern times, but because someone was unkind to me, does not make it okay for me to be unkind to others. The golden rule. And the abuser will not make strides in healing their own hurts, while they hurt others.
Wow, wow, wow! This hits the nail on the head with my ex and his family. His mom’s side of the family coming from Jamaica. So many toxic traits passed down from his great aunt who raised his mother and helped to raise him as well. The sense of entitlement like non other. His sister is the only one who isn’t like that. I already knew this, but this video series is really confirming everything.
I very vividly remember being treated like a performing monkey as a child...it always deeply upset me, even as a very smol child..especially when, in private, I was belittled and told it was bad and that "you love attention" even when I never fucking wanted it..they thust it upon me to mair themselves look good, and then tore me down because they weren't getting the same "level of attention " as they forced onto me. I HATED getting that much attention, I HATED when people would look at me expecting me to do something funny or entertaining when i just wanted to fucking BE. "Leave me be!" Are the words I wish my younger self were able to say without fear of prosecution, abandonment, or being told how horrible of a child I was..how selfish a child I am, how annoying I am, how I was so awful and was just soo sensitive and werid, "why would you want that?!?" "Do you think you can really do that" "you're setting your sights too high".. ..their words still echo in my head to this day..used to think it was a "good thing" because "they were trying to help me" ...🤦♂️
How I wish that...but that is the past. You have a gift for communicating, educating and emotional intelligence. However please look after yourself as well.
Would like to hear a deeper dive into the way narcissist control by creating chaos in home or work... more than being late but also undermining family schedules and structures , striving to dismantle plans or family routines and personal goals, and coming up with “surprises” that are not gifts to a family but rather a way to keep everyone in a state of chaos.
There's no excuse for abuse. I tell myself this all the time, too many people excuse abuse. Abuse is inexcusable in my opinion. The lasting effects of it are a lifetime long & it can create generational patterns that would have been avoided had the abuse not been present in their life in the first place. This is my grandmothers & my parents created us this way too. If i didn't experience the truamas I had in later childhood & teens I probably would have been a narcissist too as my mum & dad brought us up on achievements & materialistic gains rather than emotional & practical nurturing. I had a mental & physical health crisis in my teens that meant I went therapy. But I believe I would have followed my my sister's if I didn't experience what I had. They are all narcissistic in different ways. The research on this must be truly fascinating.
My ex narc was adopted as a baby. His parents couldn’t have kids so he was very much the golden boy. They are also Italian. His Dad had a bad temper and Mum was a strict teacher. They idealised him and still now as he is 43 years old they have a whole wall in their home with hundreds of photos of him as a baby. He lives here in England now and has a love hate relationship with them. They call him many times a day but he is forever furious that they never ask how he is, only how his work is. He has been lying to them for years that he has a big high up job at the airport when in reality he doesn’t. He is always taking hand outs from them, they have given him thousands of pounds over the past 2 years as he can’t hold a job down. I’ve heard him screaming at them over the phone many times despite that fact that they are both in their 80’s and his dad has Parkinson’s. I used to feel bad for him but he’s abused me so badly for the past 2 years including leading a double life with a woman in Italy that I actually detest him now. I ended it a month ago with no contact since. Hopefully he has run off back to Italy to mummy and daddy so he can be their problem again and not mine!
I know two people that were adopted, both in their 50s, different families. And both if them are incredibly selfish and treat their adoptive parents like crap, yet both sets of parents love and adore them and they can do no wrong. One of the parents even sold their house to give the money to their adopted son. Both of them disgust me with the shocking treatment they give the parent.
Jenny P I think there can sometimes definitely be a link with adoption from my experiences too. Must be the early rejection, I guess that coupled with being put on a pedi stool somehow creates these monsters. My best friends dad is adopted and he too is a massive narcissist. Also a boy from my school who was adopted tried to stab his adopted mum and is in prison.
Now, I know why my parents and my husband's parents were SO DIFFICULT!!! The four of them experienced different trauma at an early age. I can't believe it!! But, is that a reason for our mutual understanding with my husband?
After experiencing so much Communal Narcissisms from my mother who was a CEO for a childrens charity, I was so bitter, hurt, felt so much injustice and thus angry, that I began to lash out, in my depression I fell so much into a victim complex that if I wasn't careful I could have so easily have rebuilt up narcissistic traits and become bitter and hateful just like her, I have to unlearn so much of my anger before I ever have children, I can't ever put them through what I went through, but it scares me every single day that I have these traits. I learned to become manipulative as a child because every single day in that house was walking on eggshells, that 15 year old me had to go "okay, mam is in a good mood today, how can I "sell" to her that I've had this tooth abscess for 4 days and I need it looked at because it's so fucking agonizing without her screaming at me that I'm disgusting, lazy and going to cost her because I didn't look after myself enough in my depression. I would lie, I would lie all the time because I feared showing her the truth, when I was finally taken out of that house by my Grandmother, for weeks I lied to her about where I was, or I was walking home etc, and she called me out, I was so ashamed, but she was right. I didn't even know why I was lying about such small things like who I was with, family etc. But within weeks to months of healing, I tell my grandmother EVERYTHING, I have told her everything I've gone through, everything I've done, did and still do. I don't put up walls or get defensive nearly as often anymore, because I don't feel this instinct of fear that I have to defend myself else I be shamed and controlled. I realized, my mother would call me horrible, manipulative and twisted for lying to her all the time, but I only ever learned to lie to her. With my best friends and family I trusted particularly once I opened up and realized there was going to be no shame, no off the handle rage attacks, I opened up, I would tell the truth, and it felt so relieving to be able to do it. I felt like I was my own person and I could show who I really was, flaws and all. When I was finally given the safe space to grow and become my own person, these narc traits slowly began to fade and heal and I feel so much relief in becoming my own person, honest without any shame, not worrying if I'm liked or how I'm perceived to the world for fear of my mother. I forgive her, I love her, but she can't be in my life. And despite her being the source of so much of my trauma, damage and unhealthy behaviours and coping mechanisms, anyone I ever hurt from not getting my wounds professionally healed with therapy and self closure will be entirely my responsibility and my consequence, just like my mothers trauma not once justified her horrific behaviour to us.
"You're hypersensitive!" When they make jokes at your expense and you try to address the issue. His father treated his mother terribly and he said he understands why his dad hit his mother. She is a gentle and caring person and I'm so confused how he can excuse his dad for treating his mother like that. He doesn't even call her. The other children have a good relationship with her. This is a warning for me. I saw a vicious side of him this week so it's bye bye for me after waiting for 3 years. Good thing the scale fell out my eyes and my rose tinted glasses broke so I can see the red flags
I found the video where Dr. Ramani mentions the empathy for childhood trauma and narcissism together with the possibility for individual therapy and interpersonal therapy and attention. It’s in a realistic video about the fact that life has historically had a lot of adversity and harshness to deal with..
I really don’t see how conflating a particular name with an attitude helps anyone, especially those named Karen who abhor the mindset and entitlement underscored by this toxic behavior. Can we just call entitlement, privilege and ego inflation what it is instead of attaching an arbitrary name to it?
Brilliant explaination of cultural and generational narcissism. So helpful with practical advice on advice on how to protect oneself from the ravages of narcisism.
Wow I am so glad I watched this video, or am watching it this I should more accurately put it... This explains so much more about my father and mother's behavior. I guess I was able get my mom to open up a lot. But my dad is doing it over and over and over and... well you get the point. Thank Ramani !!!
@7pm indian time am waiting fr ur new video abt narcissism... hw enthusiastically u present... congratulations Dr. 4 keeping curiosity abt up comming episodes too.... really helpful
On my side of the family there was a lot of excusing the behaviors of my mom ( I have literally been told to excuse her incredibly bad behavior because of the abuse my grandfather inflicted on the family.) and my grandpa. My grandpa's story was that his baby sister and mother died when he was little so he was very angry about it and his father was abusive and he had a step mother so therefore he should be excused. What they don't mention is that his step mother was a wonderful woman who was a midwife and healer. Another layer of excuses for why he did the things he did was that he was beaten down with having a very large family and having to take on large amounts of physical labor to support them. Again, they try to forget that his three oldest kids dropped out of school to help him work in the fields. He had his own force of four bringing in money. How does that produce an extremely abusive womanizer? With my MIL, I get the idea she was spoiled. Her father was a business owner. It ruined his lungs but he refused to stop smoking, even when he was on an oxygen tank. MIL's mother was a harsh woman. She ran a daycare out of her large home for many years. They owned multiple properties and even some oil shares. MIL was beautiful. Her mother was an immigrant from Poland so I guess there could have been some problems there but no one ever said anything. MIL grew up in the south. Racism was pretty prevalent. She didn't like who her sons married because of that but she couldn't be blatant about it living in the west and in modern times. Her covert narcissism dictated that she needed to look good in front of others so she pretended she was fine with it. My husband acted as if he didn't see anything wrong with the way MIL treated me and our kids. He always told me to "let it go" and let it roll off my back like water off a duck. He did not want to have to get in the middle and stop his mother's bad behavior. Everyone in the family knew she was a functional alcoholic but no one would speak about it openly. When I finally put my foot down and started telling my husband he needed to stop her from getting very drunk and then running up and scooping up my babies to stumble around the room with them he would get mad at me. I told him she needed an intervention and I could see on his face he actually thought *I* was the insane one. We got into so many arguments about it. Then MIL decided to get drunk wait until the husband and his dad had gone off out of sight (I always used to beg him to stay in the room with us so she wouldn't try anything. He'd promise he would stay and then he'd end up running off with his daddy.) when we were getting ready to leave and I was packing up the baby's stuff. MIL faked me out and quickly changed directions to scoop up my baby. I ran to them and tried to take my baby away but MIL had a death grip on her. MIL had trained me to hold my breath and not let out a sound so as not to scare little ones if something scary was happening so that's exactly what I did. I should have screamed for help but MIL's training worked. MIL leaned all her weight back fully, literally playing tug of war with my baby. The only thing I could think to do was slowly let go and steady them, then run out for help, which I did. Husband ran inside and MIL just handed the baby over and turned around and walked away like nothing had happened. It took me days to express how terrifying the whole thing was but by then my husband already expected me to forget it and keep going back there. I should have said my kids and I will never see MIL again and left it at that. Instead I made him talk to her about it and tell her she couldn't drink and pick up our children anymore. Just that, speaking up and demanding protection for our children, nearly caused us to get a divorce. He was refusing to get involved but I told him that either he was going to do it or I was and it was going to get ugly. Well, we had to keep up appearances and not make waves so after days of arguing and fighting he finally called her. She actually acted offended and said, "Well! I just won't drink around you guys at all." Um, yes please. Of course she couldn't even stick to that for long. Then MIL got seriously ill. A very bad diagnosis. Husband lost his everloving mind. MIL would mistreat him, he'd be hurt for a while and then go crawling back. He expected me to forget everything she had done. At first I tried, hoping she would change her ways but no, she just got worse. When she targeted our second youngest daughter out of jealousy I had enough. We went around 6 months where I refused to be or allow my children around her. Husband had to go on pretending nothing was wrong though. MIL actually did phenomenally well with her treatments but then she suddenly got very sick and died a few months ago. The family has asked veiled questions about why didn't we go see her more often, why the decreased contact, but there's been no confrontation. Not yet. With social distancing and now the murders and riots I don't know when will be the next time we'll see them. I can't worry about that right now. Anyway, this is definitely a narcissistic family environment I'm attached to. You could call it a cult. Husband, who is normally a very sweet, passive man bordered on mean and gaslighted me, threw word salad at me when I refused to go around his abusive mother. Abuse by proxy. To this day if he notices mistreatment from the family he can talk about it but I'm not really welcome to express my feelings. This is some real screwed up stuff.
