Dangers Of Bad Theology Discussion With  

He’s bbaaaaaaaaccccckkkkkk!!! 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉😂😂😂😂 So glad you’re back brother!!!

Right out the gate, your guest hit the nail on the head. I experienced this firsthand when a dear friend of mine died of cancer, after all the prophecies, telling her and everyone that she had authority over this situation. Honestly by the end of her battle seeing her emaciated on a zoom call where everyone was continuing to pray for her, I felt so convicted. Like, let this woman rest and be united with her Jesus in heaven. That was the beginning of the end for me of believing the incorrect "everyone can heal and be healed" doctrine espoused by so many in the charismatic stream. I've seen God heal my own daughter, and I've followed him for 20 years, so my faith wasn't shipwrecked. But this is why scripture based theology is so important, because bad theology can ABSOLUTELY be a stumbling block to TRUE saving faith in Jesus where we FINISH the race, and have "well done" spoken to us, instead of "depart from me." It's so so unnecessarily tragic.

I'm glad you're back. As someone battling a chronic illness, we extend you grace and will enjoy watching you grow. I have to be kind to others who disappear because so many of my plans have to be written in pencil, not pen.

I’ve never been affiliated with Bethal, but I know people that are and I was personally affiliated with the Vineyard. I understand the overemphasis of signs and wonders and the bad theology that comes out of it. My faith was shattered in part by it. Thankfully, God helped me pick up the pieces and my faith is stronger than it’s ever been. Thanks for sharing your testimony!

So glad to have you back online! You are a blessing, May God bless you and your family!

Spending 30 years in WOF/NAR churches was difficult for me. Being born with some issues that caused pain, and being raised in an abusive environment, caused me to seek healing. I got the usual reasons, but bottom line the message was I wasn’t walking in enough faith. After coming out of all that the most difficult thing for me is reading scripture correctly. The twisting and abuse is so rampant in those movements that trying to learn truth as the Bible teaches it has been a slow process for me.

In my church, this doctrine led to people hiding what was going on in their lives because if you say “I’m struggling” you are asking for a lecture about how you need to have more faith. “Stop speaking that over your life!” still sparks anger in me because I heard it sooo many times. I was raising kids who came to me as older kids after years of trauma and if I said anything about it being difficult I got a lecture. And then “they need a sozo 😡 After I left, couple after couple divorced and some of them re-married other people in the church who had also divorced 😮 It’s not surprising when the culture tells you to put on a holier than thou act and pretend you are slaying demons every day while your family is imploding.

As one who needs healing from a chronic health condition, I have run the gammet of condemnation for lack of my faith, disappointments when prophecies did not come to pass, discouragement, feeling like I was a failure, the whole nine yards. Then it came to me, that still small voice that said" Your faith is in Me, not in your faith." I saw that I had been chasing the miracle rather chasing the miracle worker. My times are in His hands, and His grace is sufficient. He is able to give the strength to endure the process, and to allow the refiners fire to purify my heart.. Real faith is trust in Him. Whatever life looks like, however messy it feels, to know He has promised to never leave nor forsake. Regardless of whether or not I look like a victorious believer to others, He has my heart. He is the focus of my desire. My gratitude for His salvation, for hiding me under His wing, for cleansing from my sin and transgressions, is strong. It's not about me.. It's about Him. A whole load of shame for not bring healed, or operating in all of the gifts, or doing more and trying harder to please God have been laid down at His feet. I am learning to rest in Him. I have been involved in Charismatic churches since 1971. I have experienced miracles, visions, dreams, words of knowledge, etc. I appreciate each and every time God showed up. I now appreciate Him for who He is. And He is everything. I left a Bethel affiliated church 8 years ago. I watched them go off the rails. For myself, I've returned to the foundational truths of the cross, the resurrection, the teachings of Paul, to the simplicity of devotion to Christ. I have fallen deeply in love with Jesus. I cannot imagine one day apart from Him. I need Him more than ever than that messed up hippy kid I was 53 years ago, when He so graciously received me unto Himself, freely forgive me my sins, and paid the highest price for my brokenness. ❤

So glad you’re stronger now and back sharing your passion for Critical Thinking in the Body of Christ. 😊😅

Thanks brother. I too left an affiliated movement in Minneapolis. I grew up going to a penecostal church and then to a Baptist Church. I have been stuck in the cringe of not being able to have the signs and wonders work through me. I really tried to sanctify myself in an earnest manner for years to help the process. So I have 50 years of reprogramming to do. I knew something was wrong then but tried to do humble prayers and asking if it's His will etc. I still have a long ways to go. I'm so distrustful of everything and everyone. I would like to do evangelism again but I need to get to a good place again first and find a good church. I want to be an evangelist because I want to be used by God and I still believe it's what He wants us to do, for His glory and not ours. We shouldn't even count the souls saved, that is God's work and he knows the real heart.

This content is helping me so much brother! I was attending Bethel in Austin as a new believer and it's caused me to pull out and get a firm foundation in the gospel!

@38:00. LOVED this part! 80’s-baby, “filled w/ the Spirit at age-5” (i.e. tongues) & told I now could “do all things in Christ”. Don’t know what THAT was supposed to mean but when I couldn’t work change in the world around me OR my own, little life, it was because I wasn’t great ENOUGH & God MIGHT help me out when I got “there”. The Five Solas were a JOKE…& I didn’t hear this phrase until a good five years-ago, despite decades in churches. I found Bethel at the tail-end of my charismaniac-walk, but though I was “doing” a lot, the fruit of it all was rotten. I believe I began/became close to automatic-writing, definitely false prophesies that at BEST were the deceits of my own mind…& then life dealt a blow. Questioning my faith/walk, I somehow stumbled on Baucham, Washer, Doreen Virtue, Sproul…. Between getting called-out from the ex-charismania a on one side & reformed-teachers on the other I’m hopefully getting back to where Scriptuure would have me.

BASTA!!!

Glad to see you healthy! I was one who was taught the idea that if you have enough faith, things will go well, your problems will be resolved, you will he healed, etc. I had a crisis in my family and no matter how much faith I had nothing changed. It made me doubt that God even existed. I thank God that He pulled me from that place and taught me the truth about Him. I really thank you for your willingness to shre your knowledge and experience.

So glad you’re back and feeling better! You can tell in your face that you’re healthier. Wild. Haha.

We left or former “church” after 30 years and about the last 5 yrs there bethel infiltrated this place. The “pastors “ kids went there and brought back a ton of this terrible theology. Not that this “church” we were in was ever theologically sound BUT once bethels teaching became more front and center we thankfully were woken up by the Holy Spirit showing us how wrong this really was. Our “pastors”decided to take a year sabbatical to go take classes there. while they were there they would send me “sermons “ to watch (I was in very bad health) once I started watching……. 😳 WOWZA!!!!! That was it for me. That’s when I started digging and found your channel. I want people to also understand the fact that this movement (cult) HAS SO MUCH NEW AGE AND WITCHCRAFT BEING PROMOTED!!!! That’s HUGE and people really need to understand that issue as well. That is DETESTABLE TO GOD!!! This is so scary for them because I always go back to Matthew 7:21!!! These students are being so misled and so many false churches are promoting this. Even if they aren’t teaching bethel heresies they are a lot playing the music!! Not good!!!

I can’t say just HOW MUCH relief I have to know that “my healing” isn’t on me, it’s on my Lord. He is Sovereign beyond my imagination or understanding and while I’m still physically not healed, it’s so comforting to know that that is not my fault, my error, due to something I’m lacking (faith, unrepented sin, etc)…. God has my life in his hands and that brings me to grateful tears. Thank you.

Looking forward to it! Glad you’re back and doing well

Great discussion! 👍

Been talking w a buddy who is heavily involved at Bethel. He has recalled to me some stories of healings he has been involved in. I keep an open mind, but other than hearsay, there never really seems to be much fanfare about any of these so-called miraculous healings. I came across this channel in my search for more information about this aspect of Bethel. I wonder how often do people experience actual physical healing and when/if it occurs, are these verified healings or is it sometimes maybe temporary healing (like placebo effect or mind over matter). The human mind is very strong and we can convince ourselves into feeling better or in some cases feeling worse (works both ways). I would be surprised if God didn’t occasionally answer prayers for healing, but I have my doubts that these folks are healing major infirmities (restoring hearing, paralysis, cancer, etc.). And I doubt they are driving out demons on a daily basis either.

Jesse, l'm so glad you're doing well! Good discussion and I'm looking forward to more videos! ❤️

It’s so good to see you back on!

Hi Matt. I am Tracey Burroughs from South Africa 🇿🇦 watching your video. Keep up with your videos. Keep up the good work Matt.

Great hearing from you again Brother! We've been missing you & are Praying for you!

I heard this quote a while back, "Truth without love is brutality, love without truth is sentimentality ❤

So glad you're back. I just listened to this episode and then I started my daily Bible reading. I guess I never thought about this before, but I'm reading in Acts 8 and it's the story of Simon the sorcerer. It says he saw the Apostles laying hands on people, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit. He offered them money saying, "Give me this authority, as well..." The Apostles SUPER rebuked him and said for his him and hi money to perish together "because you suppose you could obtain the gift of God with money.."?!?! WOW! Do you see analogies to this passage, and what Bethel does at BSSM? Basically, "Give us money and we'll teach you how to activate the Holy Spirit."?

Good to see you Jesse and Matt also. Missed hearing about the deeper spiritual things and pleased about this. Thank you for the effort you both put into doing this. May the Lord continue to bless the two of you. Appears your diabetes is under control now, glory to God for this. Much love

Good to see you Jesse! You don't owe us anything - not videos, consistency or anything. Look unto Him. Soli Deo Gloria.

So good to see you again! You look really good! Thanks for sharing what you can!

The life of a homesteader can be unpredictable. The best part is, we get to try again next year and learn from our mistakes. I really enjoyed listening to you guys talk about bad theology. Some of it hit deep inside and revealed what my own church was confronted with a few years ago. We are still recovering from it. Ephesians 6 is one of my favorite scriptures. God bless y'all for sharing!

Glad you are back and doing well.

Matt’s first argument is really good. Because that is happening for sure! I would rather say the theology that God always promises Healing is a false theology and it’s unbiblical. And that’s why people are leaving The faith and people have shipwrecked their faith because Paul promises that bad unbiblical theology shipwrecks faith. “holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting this, some have made shipwreck of their faith, among whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.” ‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭1‬:‭19‬-‭20‬ ‭ESV‬‬ BTW those two people had believed, and taught that the resurrection had already happened. It was a wrong Theology. Believing the wrong stuff about God shipwrecks faith

My nephew died and my prayers didn't bring him back. Also I didnt get married or have kids and some missionaries i was translating for pointed out that everyone was saved. I lost my faith for 15 years. I had been a veey sincere dedicated Christian. I made it back and am just happy to be saved .

Just discovered this channel. This was really an excellent discussion thanks. I appreciated especially the statement about the fruit of Spirit being something that the Spirit does rather than us and the fact that encouraging people to prophesy when they are not sure if God has spoken is actually encouraging people to sin. My wife and I are (still) in a charismatic church near Paris France, so I can really identify with what you were saying. I have a question though. From my previous experience of "doctrinally sound" churches they hardly did any effective evangelisation. On the other hand the charismatic church is always reaching out to the world, admittedly with an inaccurate Gospel. So I can't help thinking that God is building his church more through the charismatic "church" than through the doctrinally sound but dead church. I do believe that there are many unregenerate people in the charismatic church, but from various testimonies I've heard, some are also saved (despite the distorted message !)

Good to see you alive and well.

This is a great discussion and much needed. It took years to undo the psychological damage from bad Evangelical/Pentecostal theology which robbed me of so much. I have had so many conversations with my Christian friends about this who have experienced very similar issues to mine. I know many people who have gone to and studied at Bethel from here in the 🇬🇧 UK. The older I am getting the more I yearn for the pure simplicity of the gospel and God's word which has not been distorted through Western commercialisation. I never understood why you would need to pay to learn the gifts of the spirit and worship through a course.

So very very good to see you back praise Him xxxx

Good to see you brother! This was a fantastic interview🙏🏽

Great to see you! Praise God 🙏

Dude! So glad to see you back and healthy! God bless you and your family. My wife attended Bethel and I must say how much I appreciate your past videos regarding your experience. Truly informative. Thank you.

Theology matters, so I appreciate this video. As a pastor who preaches and teaches the Word, I stress having a proper theology to properly understand not just who God is, but also who we are in this relationship. Creator>creature ... through Christ we have been reconciled to the Creator and are now called "child". What more could you want in the grand scheme of eternity? A sickness being healed? Bills being paid? Status? All fleeting things, all temporary. Christ is my portion, and His hope is all I should ever want.

❤

So glad you're back

So happy to see a new episode! Can't wait for the worship video. Really seeking truth in this area. Thank you!

That was a great conversation! Thanks Jesse and Matt. (Good to see you back!)

I'm so glad you're back!

Great video Jesse and Matt! This was very informative and Christ centered and I appreciate both of your ministries. I have been a subscriber to Matt's channel for a while now and I love his ministry and it's great to see you back Jesse. I was thinking about you and praying for you during this trial in your life

Good day. Great to see you back. Praying for you and your whole household, your ministry, as well. Blessings ❤ 🇦🇺.

Hey brother Jesse, I caught the very end of this and I’ll be watching it later tonight or tomorrow whatever. I look forward to hearing the conversation. I know we exchanged communication ourselves. I also have been on a hiatus and will follow up with you. Be blessed, rest, and trust in the Lord.

I have been coming out of Word of Faith movement and love people who are still in it and I find myself trying to discuss the topics I see and it creates a lot of friction. I am stable but my support system is going through an overhaul that is painful.

Great to see you back. I so enjoyed the conversation. God bless you and your family.

Soo good to see you brother !! Wow praise the Lord blessings

So helpful! Great to be introduced to Matt's content. Could either/both of you do an episode on the 7 Mountain Mandate and the Five Fold Ministry? I have a hard time explaining to my friends how these are not biblical.

Grateful for your content ❤

So encouraging! Good to see you on here again. I've been led to pray for you a few times. Let us know how your health is doing! And I agree. I think Bethel's zeal with sound theology would be so powerful for The Kingdom. It's been a big prayer point of mine. I would love it if you'd consider leading us in prayer for them. God bless you and your family!

Welcome back! I’ve learned so much from your videos! Looking forward to more! 😀❤️

Good to see you back Jessie, love your videos. Bless you and your family. Looking forward to the 'Revisiting revisiting Bethel'! 😂

Love your channel and love Matt’s Learn to Discern!! ❤🙏

Hello Jesse, good to hear from you again, missed you.

Love this video! Thank you both for what you are doing!

I love this channel and I’m glad to see you’re doing well and back at it!

Good to see you back!

I'm glad you are doing better

Yes!!!! Good to see your vid again!!!!!

Happy to see you❣️

To believe in the longed for miracle or just the fact that God is good is too superficial. We have one on one seek the Kingdom Matt 6, seek His Face Psalm 27 in His Word. When we do that with a longing heart we will meet The Father and The Saviour by the help of the Spirit and we will get our daily Bread to eat and to pass on to our neighbors. This is Life eternal That you actually knou God - the only true God and the One that He has sent: Jesus Christ. Let us run to God ❤.

Welcome back!!!!

51:44 Insightful. Thanks!

Welcome back, you’ve been missed!

Its like the theology of: You are the Next timothy of this generation!!! You are the Next Joseph and you will reach your prophetic call!!!🤨😬😬😬 Man I mean we can agree this theology hurts, but thanks to the Lord we have the bible, and we can agree that by reading its pages and Informing ourselves of salvation through faith is Gospel and thats what we need

Glad you are back. Where can we watch American gospel 3???

So glad you’re doing well and back! I do have a question..do you know anything about the school at IHOP in Kansas City? Is it the same as Bethel?

Arrived alive...phew better late than never

Thank you, both. I'd been influenced by Bethel.

My brother if I may add one more thing: The one thing that made me mad from these churches is that they told millions of: ACCEPT JESUS as your Lord and personal saviour(sinners prayer by billy graham) But the thing is, the bible doesnt say "accept Jesus" it says CONFESS Jesus as Lord and believe he resurrected Let me put these verses: Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. My point is: I had to litteraly question myself and what did I come up to? I said I accept Jesus, not confessing Jesus as lord. The thing is, and it is a dark thing, how many people died saying they accept Jesus but didnt do it according to WHAT IT IS WRITTEN?🥲 I HAD TO abide by the bible and say it again with the words: I confess Jesus as LORD and believe with full trust he rose from the dead. Even I had to repeat it with my father and mother😥😬 i wouldnt imagine if they died and didnt know this stuff. We have to understant that in trials, what matters most is papers and not testimony, many will say: Lord but my pastor "told me to" accept..... but will that be valid? Sadly no because for thousands of years it was said: ✅️Confess Jesus as Lord ✅️Believe he rose from the dead I hope I explained myself and you are not alone brother😊 greetings from Honduras

Yup

You are such an inspiration Jessie. If only you knew how much you have blessed folk already……well one day a lady named Karen will give you the biggest hug in heaven to say thank you.

This type of church theology has everything in common with paganism (getting something by appeasing a god) than with Biblical faith and truth epitomized by Abraham, the spiritual father of faith. Unfortunately, most churches in our day are too similar to Vatican churchianity which incorporated the paganism around it in the 4th century and following. A couple of examples would be Christmas (Christ Mass) and Easter (Ishtar the fertility goddess) which are not centered upon the Christ of the Bible but are centered on the false Christ's that Jesus prophesied would come in His name. All true believers are grafted into the good olive tree (see Romans 11) which represents redeemed Israel. Vatican churchianity has the same perspective as Emperor Constantine in the 4th century ... the Christian Church is a separate body from ancient Israel; it is a brand new Israel, if you will. But, if true, that would mean it does not inherit God's original promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Israel) and will not be found in the kingdom of God but in outer darkness and the Lake of Fire. May God bless you with understanding. Shalom

Spoiler alert: Jordan Peterson, his wife and daughter Mikhaila have recently all come to faith in Christ! They have a really cool testimony too!

Jesus Word of God, speaks forgiveness and healing in the Wisdom of Father , Jesus, Creator of all that is seen and unseen, from before the creation of the world, is my redeemer and Savior. Remember this, our western mindset has deceived us when hearing the word of God. Hus mind is formed in me as Holy spirit corrects, protects and directs my life

☹️ "promosm"