Former Bethel Student Reacts to Rediscover Bethel (Part 1) 

Looking forward to seeing you guys! I'll be in the chat :D

Because they sometimes say things that are true, even profoundly true, it makes the lies, deceptions and falsehood more believable to the poor souls who don’t know any better. Just enough truth to make the lies plausible. Thank you for your work, glad to see you back. Will be following from 🇦🇺 where we have friends who attended BSSM and haven’t yet fully rescinded the teachings.

When Bill stated that praying “if it be your will” is a prayer of unbelief, then that would mean that Jesus had unbelief in Luke 22:42 which would mean that Jesus was actually not in perfect relationship with the Father. Thanks for these videos. Keep it going.

So happy to be listening to you again!!! I so enjoy these seasons…so many of us have been washed in the newer preachings since 1990 and we need a true bath to wash away the errors that have been adopted by the spirit filled church body!!!❤❤❤❤

I’m thankful to hear you dive in on the topic of healing, and God’s sovereignty, and Bethels view of it

Jesse, I am so glad to see you back. I will admit that I had a little bit of fear when everything went dark on your end that you might have gone the way of Lindsey Davis and returned to Bethel. Greatly appreciate your perspective. Love you, brother.

Wonderful to have you back!!! Thank you!

I also struggle so much with hearing Bill say that praying "Gods will" is a "prayer of unbelief".......when thats exactly in the Lords Prayer in Matthew 6, that we’re to model after when it comes to our prayer life... 🙃 ....make it make sense!! (Which the bible already does. We just need to read it correctly).

Joni Eareckson Tada is a perfect example of how God did not heal her but used her to reach many people worldwide. She went to many healing services as a young woman. Every disciple but one was brutally killed for the Gospel. I do believe God heals today, but not everyone is healed.

Thank you so much for this ..I've never really listened to Bethel teaching or followed but I see this in my life,...I've been born again for 40 years under the charismatic movement...for about a year I've discovered teaching of reformed pastors and my heart and eyes have been open to errors in my own life...thank you for your compassionate heart in reaching out to those like me, that just didn't see...I'm praying for God's compassion and truth when I come into face to face conflict with this former teaching I've had...thank you again

41:34 Awesome point. Love for scripture and expert handling shows love for the Lord. This is higher than any personal experience.

I'm in a deconstruction phase of my life and I've needed these videos to help me ♡ Thankyou for your clarity and honesty, I appreciate that your videos are a safe place to land.

Bless you for doing this, and thank you for your willingness to be transparent and honest. The Body needs more people with this kind of courage who will speak out!

Thank you for covering this topic!!! 🙏🤗 God bless your work

Amen! My autoimmune disease is as the dew. I'm still a forgiven sinner and God will heal my body perfectly. But if He chooses to use it instead of removing it right now, I can trust that He is making me more like Christ (ROM 8:29) This sanctification is epically more important than healing me during this micro earthly life. Praise God He sees the end from the beginning!

Welcome back! You look so healthy and happy! 🙌🏻

What a beautifully broken down video, thank you so much 🙏

When there’s caveat or exceptions in your theology, it shows a weakness or that there’s holes in your theology. Great point Jesse. Starting to see the nuances and you’re becoming incredibly mature. The reason that many caveats and exceptions are not good to have is because God is immutable he does not change. And thus theology is not subjective because our God changes not!

Welcome back, Jesse. I think you did a good job in this video balancing critique with acknowledgment of the places Bill spoke truth. I especially appreciated your comparison between "experience" and true love for the Scripture and Christ by correctly exegeting the Word. Looking forward to Part 2, also your interview with Alisa Childers.

First time listening to you. Excellent. Wise. Keep preaching the Gospel brother!

So good to see you back!!!

So happy to see you back, Jesse! We need your voice! And, you look great! ❤

Thank you Jessie for covering this, I am glad to see your videos again. I came out of a school of supernatural in CA started by 2 Bethel graduates. My eyes were finally opened when they started preaching we no longer repent for sin! They were heavy advocates of "The Passion Translation" and also "The Mirror Bible" (leans toward little gods theology). Please keep pointing out that BJ diminishes the sovereignty of God, and the true miracle of a saved soul! May our gracious Father and the Lord Jesus continue to change hearts and open eyes! God Bless!

Thanks for tackling this subject. It’s extremely important!

Thank u soooo much! 🙌🏼❤️‍🔥🙌🏼

Thank you for solid words.

So many of us need your help. He’s infiltrating so many churches!!

Welcome back brother.

So happy to see you again!!!

Welcome back! Looking forward to this series

Listening from Australia, my family are very caught up in Bethel , mum has done the on line supernatural school if ministry and has continued involvement with at for 5 or more years, my dear brother is worship leader at his church and is very influenced by Bethel music and also goes to conferences of Kris Vallotten, and the host conferences at their own church with Bethel trained speakers. I’m so sad, but your content I’ve listened to this week has been the absolute best thing. I have actually made some headway with my family over the last year, started off quite volatile but I backed off, prayed and we just talk about issues not directed at Bethel but at general error and I really think this could help shine a light on Bethel teachings for them. The best thing you said on a discussion you were having with the ex-Calvinist, at the end was that charismatics can take challenge as personal attack on their own faith because of it being so based in experience and emotions. An awareness of this will help me be even more compassionate and gentle as I try to engage in iron sharpening iron. These reactions to Bethel are going to so help with the Gaslighting they are engaging in with these rediscovering Bethel videos. Please keep up Gods work, praying for you and your wife and kids.

Sorry I missed the live stream. I was able to spontaneously meet with my brother and I hadn’t seen him in several years. So I’ll check this out later man so glad to see you back in the swing of things.

Great to see you back! Hope all is well with you and your family!

Loved your balanced perspective! keep doing these kind of videos!

Yes, your videos are a blessing! Thank you❤

😃You’re back!!

Sometimes sickness is the only thing that brings one to repentance. The will of God may be to allow a sickness to bring them to repentance.

I'm glad you're back and your health has gotten better.

Thank you. Very helpful. I appreciate your even handedness

Thank you!!

Glad to see you back! ❤

@25:32 This is a good point. The prayer of "declaration" is not a prayer of faith in God. It's a "prayer" of faith in self. What I learned with the death of my father-in-law (longer story for another time) is that Charismatics have an incorrect understanding of faith. They think faith is a force that you have to generate enough of in order to accomplish things. The focus of that "faith" is on self. It is nothing but superstition, wishful thinking. If you don't have enough of this "force" then you will fail and it will be your fault. Charismatics think of faith this way: they walk into an empty room and wish and hope and pray that a chair will appear when they sit down. But when they go to sit down, they fall on their rear-ends because no amount of wishful thinking will create truth. Real faith is like this: walking into a room, seeing a chair and TRUSTING that it will hold you up when you sit down. You demonstrate faith in that object by sitting down. Why? Because it is trustworthy. It is solid, has four sturdy legs, held you up when you sat in it before. That is what true faith really is: a trust in Someone who is trustworthy! A prayer of true faith is not in how strongly you believe something will happen. A true prayer of faith is in surrendering your will to the sovereignty of the Ohe who is trustworthy.

Great video, Jesse. Keep doing them and keep progressively growing in Christ and keep in step with the Spirit.

You’re looking very healthy there, Jesse!😃

Bill: "We don't condone sin." Requires students to give false prophecies.

I called Bethel and asked them for an angel feather to test it. They would not let me talk to any pastor on staff about this, nor would they email me back.

Welcome back. You have been missed ❤

Good to see you back bro!

While I keep hearing about Bethel Church and they’re either heretical practices and beliefs, or odd theological beliefs, I never hear anything on whether we should be using their music or not.

”scholars don’t have the relationship“ but I’m sure he does??? This is so condescending and of course Brian Simmons, Bill Johnson, and others of his ilk certainly do have the relationship to give the proper nuance to the biblical text That’s necessary? This kind of language keeps people and mainly his adherents addicted to his teaching. Because he has the relationship that’s necessary to give the nuance to the teaching of the Bible but no one else does. other people don’t have the relationship necessary to understand the nuances in the Bible. Only he and Brian Simmons do. the teaching of the perspicuity of scripture is the teaching that all scripture is simple/clear enough for every single believer to understand it. There is no special elite Christian necessary to understand it! every single Christian can understand scripture and apply it for their own lives in their own living rooms!

So here's my thing: I can't in good faith believe he has any good motive when he encourages sin and acts of stupidity that lead to unbelievers blaspheming God's name. If as you said for example, people go on treasure hunts and tell someone to run a leaf on their body and that it is God telling them to do so then when it doesn't work it just causes a mockery of Christ. Or encouraging false prophecy is another thing. It's a serious issue here. That spirit is of the antichrist, giving Satan much delight as a supposed shepherd directs his flock to sin intentionally. The condemnation he will face for that is terrifying. It's heart breaking for all those caught up in it still. I know people and I also have family that think it's just a case of "chewing the meat and spitting out the bones" but it's heavier than that. I wish it weren't but it is.

When is part 2 coming out? Patiently waiting 👀

A lot of his teaching is what we "get" and man focused, but not the Worship of God regardless of what we get. I need him every hour and neet to repent in humility.

Hey brother!! Is there any news on when the new American Gospel is coming out?

I really liked what you did here. You were just being honest about it all and what you think and where they are coming from, its healthy even if you get some things wrong, who of us understands it all anyway but we learn by listening to stuff like this and thinking it through. We can all learn if we listen to each other, ask God to help us and compare what is being said with scripture... ...this type of humility helps us to see our own blind spots and to move on... Im from the UK and i attend a charismatic anglican church in Watford, Soul Survivor which has been through some stuff recently. Im very interested in Bethel because ive known the history of dominion theology (william branham / kansas city prophets) but thought it had gone away until 2019 when someone said to me that bethel were into grave soaking.. At the time i thought she was some mad s african woman until i looked it up... and then realised that NAR was the new name for dominion theology (formerly latter rain, manifest sons of god)... My husband and i were about to do bethel zozo training and quickly back tracked !! since then ive looked into holly pivecs stuff BUT STILL I HAVE BEEN GRAPPLING WITH, WHAT DOES THIS MEAN AT GRASS ROOTS - WHAT ACTUALLY GETS TAUGHT that is wrong at the pulpit level if you like... THis video has helped me think this through some more... there are people in my church who are into bethel teaching etc so its quite close to home...

This is a great topic and a great warning as well. Sometimes it can be a very fine line between truth and error and other times error can be detected from a mile away. Any doctrine, teaching or practice that cannot not be substantiated by scripture should be avoided. Admittedly I have been a consumer of Bethel music but now evaluating the theological content lyrically. Sadly I suppose their theology would influence the music. Praying that the leadership will correct and change course where needed as they are a huge influence on many who genuinely desire to follow Jesus. Thanks for your presentation and look forward to your invitation with Alisa Childers.

25:09 we can also see a precedent from Scripture on this. James 4:13-15 says that when we plan for our life (specifically when we plan for our business or professional life) we should have the attitude of “as the Lord wills”. This shows that we should walk in humility when it comes to the will of God. For example, if a pastor/teacher were to get up on stage and declare that God would grow the church by 100 people that year , without the inspiration of the Spirit, he would be presuming. So it would be the same with healing. If we do not feel a prompting from the Holy Spirit that a person is to be healed, we cannot *declare* healing and must ask, and if we must ask we need to recognize that God sometimes allows His children to become ill in this life (Job, Timothy’s stomach disease, Paul’s thorn, Paul’s ailment in Corinth) God desires in His heart that we be healed (that’s why there’s no wheelchairs in heaven), but this side of heaven we may have to endure a trial of sickness or injury.

Thank you Jesse. I've got a family member in mind who thinks that Bill and Co say some good stuff, so I'm hoping he watches this. Very fair and grace-filled critique, thank you. Oh and think cactus, octopus (singular) and cacti, octopi (plural) and it might help with remembering alumnus (if you're male, but that's another complication!) singular and alumni plural! 😊

This can be quite the thing to wrestle with! When it came to tackling this for myself I had to think about the cross. Theologians across the board agree that it wasn’t God in His Divine nature that died on the cross nor rose again but it was his human nature. It has even been taken so seriously that classic hymns have been said to be appreciated for what they’re trying to say about God coming to die on a cross in reference to what Jesus did although quite frankly it’s an error to put it like that. I would even think that this is why scripture uses both Son of God and son of man to describe Jesus. I think the same logic can be used when looking at how Jesus did miracles as a man but didn’t cease to ever be God. His human nature did have to rely on God just like his human nature died on a cross. I think the more we think this way, the simpler the matter becomes. The fact that Bethel is really working to try to word things correctly speaks a lot to their character to want to not go against scripture.

So thankful for you clearly articulating the main aspiration of the Christians ministry on this earth at 20:17. What greater miracle is there than a spiritually dead sinner (Eph 2:1) being called of God to find eternal life in Him? A longer leg? A tumor falling off? Promotions or cheques in the mail?

NAR does not like humility, but God's Word does. The gospel is simple, but NAR makes everything so complicated that you get blown around like useless dry tumbleweed. There is no standard in NAR but whatever they make up this year or this season. Very cultush. I'll take persecution to honor God's Word but I wouldn't drink the coffee at Bethel.

I kove your discussion on the sovereignty of God. Out of my own hypercharismatic experience, I condensed a lot of it as: God is sovereign in that He can, but WE are the ones deciding what He should do. And that's sooo wrong!

Around 26 min, Bill calls praying “if it’s your will” a prayer of unbelief. Jesus prayed it, and He taught it in the Lord’s Prayer. If Jesus is perfect theology and He modeled that, how can it be a prayer of unbelief? I’ve heard Bill teach this a number of times, and I’m guessing he won’t pray it because it would wreck his own theology. I continue to pray for all at Bethel and all who are being influenced by Bethel. Lord, please have mercy.

Thanks!

Thanks for your video brother! Just happened to come across your channel a few minutes ago coz I got a sister admitted to BSSM. I got doubts when I first saw the name ‘Supernatural Ministry’

Imagine telling Paul in the NT his “thorn in the flesh” it’s God’s will to heal Paul. Paul literally says he will count it as a blessing because it makes us look toward God. I understood this as when you look at someone who is struggling and say “I don’t know how you do it” or “you are so strong to get through this”, but the the Christian can say, it’s only because of God that I can. It glorifies God. What Johnson says is wrong.

Well done! 😊🎉

And how does someone measure this “relationship” who defines the “love relationship.” Does Bill Johnson define who has a love relationship? Of course he does and of course scholars don’t have the proper love relationship according to him.

This is like most evangelicals in general. Drove me nuts how vague and "radically neutral" every stance was.

Isn't it just simply pelagianism? That's always been my beef with the Charismatic church. Hardcore will worship. Even remembering Bill's origin story talking about having his first encounter and basing it on how much he was desiring God and that's why he had that encounter. It's exhausting basing my relationship and union with God based on my own abilities and will.

For me the eye opening came when I read Mark 13:22. Signs & wonders will be used against God’s people in an effort to deceive the elect. Jesus says in John 10 to know His VOICE! For me it set a trajectory for a massive change. Prayer & study of God’s Word, may all who are truly lovers of Jesus take heart to focus there and the deceptions will unravel.

Thank you. Hard to watch but important

So happy to see you doing so well. I love your heart in this…

20:45 not to confirm US, but to confirm THE GOSPEL! (see book of acts)

Jesus also had the Holy Spirit without measure.

Even when I Steel-man their position they reject it. Out of the 100s of conversations I’ve had with friends and family about Bethel all of them besides 1 or 2 still love Bethel and Bill and the ones that don’t weren’t convinced by me or my arguments. I’m convinced it’s a cult of personality just like IHOP.

54:00 The main problem here is that he’s teaching people to celebrate communion privately. Communion must NOT be CANNOT be celebrated privately. It is a communal act of the Christian church meant to be celebrated together in communion with each other and with the Lord Jesus Christ. Never in Christian history there been a private act/ordinance/sacrament privately celebrated!

That's my big boy - lookin healthy

Jesus Christ, himself, taught us to pray, "thy will be done." For Bill to say that such a prayer is a prayer of unbelief is absolutely insane and unChristian.

Never trust a faith healer who wears glasses 😂

This whole thing is totally subjective if this then that, if that then this. He said, I had the feeling that this person needed to go home and be with the Lord. He Even says that he would have “grieved” the Holy Spirit if he would’ve prayed for healing. But grieving the Holy Spirit in the scriptures has nothing to do with praying for peoples healing or not. “Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.” ‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4‬:‭29‬-‭30‬ ‭ESV‬‬

Jesus Christ is fully God and fully man. Let us embrace the mystery! ❤

The miracles they Jesus did shows and He is the Messiah, the Jewish religious leaders knew that only the Messiah would to perform these miracles (signs and they wonders). That is why Jesus told them that all sin will be forgiving except blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, for they knew He is the Messiah, yet said Jesus did what He did by the power of Satan. They knew the truth yet rejected Him, because Jesus did not fit their idea of the Messiah.

ALSO HAVE A READ OF DEREK PRINCE'S BOOK - PROTECTION AGAINST DECEPTION: He was on stage with William Branham (where this all comes out of) and said that he moved in two spirits, one being demonic.. So he was in the midst of all this stuff but separated from it and repented... This is shown to be true in John Andrew Collins (former branham cult member) historical research in 'The Voice of Healing' mags they have uncovered relatively recently...

To pray, "Lord, if it's your will," is actually mandated (James 4:13-17). It's not just ill advised to refuse to do so, it is wrong! BJ is not the only false teacher to say this. Frederick Price and Benny Hinn come to mind.

Id retitle your video "former bethel student"

24:00 he says that “lord if it is your will“ prayer as a prayer of unbelief. Then the Lord Jesus Christ himself taught us to pray prayers of unbelief. He taught us to pray “Your Will Be Done on earth as it is in heaven.” Then the Lord Jesus Christ himself has taught us to pray prayers of unbelief? Impossible! That’s almost on the level of blasphemy that Jesus Christ would teach us to pray a prayer of unbelief.

I love your honesty here and just sharing how you see it is, i think that is great, we all have to grapple with our theology and we are all on a learning curver no matter how old in the spiritual tooth we are... 🙂 So at 28:59 you are grappling with Is healing in the atonement... I would say healing is in the atonement because the cross references in my bible link the two scriptures below together which means that Isaiah isnt just talking about sin... also the word for healing zozo is also linked to complete healing /salvation. Matt 8:16-17 Jesus healed all the sick. This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah: "He took up my infirmities and carried my diseases." 17 This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah: Isa 53:5 But he was pierced for my transgressions, he was crushed for my iniquities; the punishment that brought me peace was upon him, and by his wounds I am healed. ******* Typically those who argue for healing not being in the atonement say that Jesus was doing his healings before his death on the cross (atonement). However you have the verse in hebrews that says that what Jesus did on the cross counted back through time to those who sinned before Jesus incarnation... *************** however there is still something wrong with Bill johnsons theology. i think you are putting your finger on it here to some extent... I still believe there are reasons why people are not healed and we do need to seek God about it, press into him.. and its not as important as our holiness and salvation... AS you can move in power and not know him (end matt 7), you can have faith to move mountains and not have love (1 corinthians 13), to the extent we dont walk in love we walk in death, the gospel of john says...

Bill..."my buildabear is named "Jesus"

So may I ask if while you were at the Bethel school if you saw any out of the ordinary, truly miraculous healings.

Once a so called apostle like Johnson curses apostle Paul, a true apostle, it's time to get out of bethel and find a solid pastor and church.

This is so helpful because this kind of poor theology has crept into so many minds. We need to be able to spot it

Ummm... Brother Bill? You wear glasses. Also, Paul (formerly known as Saul) had 'a thorn in his side'. There's every medical reason to believe that it was physical. Study all the times he got punished with open eyes and a historical perspective.

Great to see Joaquin Phoenix come out of that place

23:50 how about the miracles (like healings) that do happen in/with bethel - do you acknoledge them?

Part 2?

At 8:15 with the reference Psalm 76:19, there are only 12 verses in that chapter. In Psalm 77 there is a verse about water. Is this the verse you meant to reference? 😊

@thewestwoodhome Is Bethel a major component of Changed Movement. I've been asking Changed Movement where they refer people when people join them for help out of homosexuality. They haven't given me a firm answer. I ask because of the leadership.

Question: isn’t the context of taking “communion” to be with the local body of Christ? Why does Bill take communion every day by himself (I’m assuming)?

ok, one more, a question: does it take away anything from Christ, to believe I can do miracles by the power of God working through me? why not? does he stop being God or the Saviour because of that?