In This episode I convert a heating system from open vented to sealed, have an awkward job of lagging some heating pipes and upgrade a broken condense pipe
Great video's Tom, we used to get that same problem with air back in the 80's & 90's. To cure the problem we used to have the feed pipe inverted into the return pipe , as we found out it stopped the air getting pulled into the system from the feed pipe when the pump was running. Atb Glenn
I've done that a few times myself, on this one I decided just to seal the system to eliminate any potential future problems , thanks for watching mate 👍
I put some EPH bi directional trv son the returns on a system and they banged like mad 🤷🏻♂️. I swapped the flow and return under the boiler and they were fine
haha last one in gets the blame. 2-3 plumbers prolly priced that job and they took the cheapest? as your servicing just point out all faults to customers as you see them. tell them to get the bloke that did the job back to do it right? homeowner is someone that leaves broken bulbs around. doesnt surprise me he/she/they blamed you. never lend your tools out. ever. never be a lender or a borrower. what i do is i explain that i borrowed something out and it came back broken so i don't do that anymore. your not looking behind them bushes cost you money and time. props to you for going back and changing it. that magnet filter will block in time. when you drained it would have been a good time to relocate/replace it. hope you told them or the pleb that originally fitted it will shit talk the customers to getting you back to repair his "work" valve your auto air vents they always fail and leak. saves a draindown. oh and stop leaving your pipe cutters outside of your "work area"
Sometimes it goes like that, I am sure other trades must experience this as well, hopefully its all sorted now though for the customer, take care mate and thanks for the support
Took me a few minutes to understand fully what you're doing, I've never made an old system pressurised like this. Very interesting and informative video, does this cause any issues to the coil?
Thanks for watching Mick, it shouldn't really make any real difference with the coil doing it this way round, even it was a gravity coil it would work on a pressurised system.
Thanks for the support Luke, I definitely need to improve my camera work, it's one thing I always struggle with, I bought a large tripod but find it annoying to keep setting up, especially when I'm in a rush, a head strap just might be a great idea
@@PlumbLikeTom yeah, they’re a pain in the arse, I’ve always seen people have better luck with head or lapel cameras. Just takes a bit more editing which is hard enough when you have a full time job!
Keep us posted about pressuring the system I've got one to do and most of the pipework has been installed by the house owner I'm just mindful of popping a loose joint if I pressurized it up ....but another great video Tom lad 👍
Thanks mate, I get enough leaks filling up my own pipework let alone anyone else's. Seriously though it is always a risk with systems, you just have to make customers aware you are only responsible for your pipework, any existing leaks can be repaired but at extra cost
Happened to me. Annoying. Numerous bursts, Nearly all speedfit pipe, not fully inserted, no liners used and stat was in direct sunlight and directly over a radiator with a trv fitted. Doh!
Hi mate, there are no specific regulations that cover the testing of heating pipes, water regulations only cover wholesome water supplies. On this job there were no pipes buried in walls or floor screeds so there is far less of a chance of discovering a leak, often sealing a system only identifies a leak which was pre-existing and would require fixing anyway. Thanks for watching and for the support
Good video as always. Appreciate you showing the first cylinder job. Still takes me a while to get my heat round cylinder setups. Just comes with experience and repetition I guess. Am I right in saying the lagging should go through the wall for the condense too?
Hi mate, Like you say cylinders come with experience, once you've worked on a a few they are all the same, in an absolute ideal world the condense would be lagged through the wall but to be honest you very rarely see it done, thanks for watching as always
Condensate termination , l’ve always terminated below grate level due to wind chill factor , possibly could be difficult regs , recommendations on oil or boiler manufacturers. Thanks for you channel , really enjoy it .
Thanks mate, If they have plastic tops on the gulley I terminate them below but I didn't really want to cut into the old cast gulley top on this one and risk it breaking, Where it is located hopefully it should be fairly sheltered from the wind. In an ideal world I would have drilled trough above the gulley to save on the external pipework run but I couldn't get the pipe behind the boiler, thanks for watching and for the support
I've seen a few flooded boilers, normally its when someone connected into a downpipe without an airgap, Luckily never seen one full of crap in person yet but seen a few pictures from other engineers
Great Tom, real world Plumbing. Mate, you need a few tools, pencil, tape & most importantly a ‘pipe slice’ type waste pipe cutter, stay away from the Knipex dual one, it’s shite. The Rothy & OX ones are good. Neat lagging, what are you using for your mitres? I hope you used a ‘remote’ filling loop, one one with the gauge attached to the valve? Great video as always. Regards Dick Puller
I can never find a pencil when I need one, I do not know where they go but they seem to disappear. I used to use the pipe slice cutters for the waste pipe but I never really got on with them very well, it might be that I just brought some cheap ones so might have to give them another go, I use the pipe lagger pro for my lagging, seems to make a decent enough job but seems to be a little expensive now, I was going to but the apprentice one but they are silly money on Amazon, thanks for watching
I had an issue with a banging radiator once on a combi system... replaced TRV valves, it was still banging, swapped the TRV again... turned out the guy had the radiator turned right down and it kept opening and closing realy quickly.. I told him to just leave it on 2 or above and it was fine.
I think the customer had tried to sort the issues on this job themselves, I installed TRV's last year, balanced the system and got all radiators working. I think I recommend the installation of a system filter at the time because the system seemed quite dirty but never went back to install one. Roll forward a year or so and the customer phones me to say I have fitted the valves incorrectly and the system is now banging and they keep needing to bleed the radiators, I thought the simplest solution was just to seal the system to hopefully eliminate all issues.
To be fair sometimes customers can be misinformed or misunderstand information so I never have a problem in them asking questions with regard to work being up to standard. Everybody wants and should get the best possible job at the correct price and if I make a mistake I am more than happy to rectify at my own expense. On this occasion I believe everything I did was fair and correct with regard to the work so hopefully get paid
Great videos, keep them coming. I wonder if you missed the condense pipe or did somebody rip it off when clearing the vegetation and to save face you got the blame! Either way, I don't see how you got the blame, I hope you got paid to do the work and they weren't trying a fast one.
Thanks for the support mate, I get the blame for everything, its just water off a ducks back now, this job I just sorted it for the customer, its sometimes better to just do it rather than arguing for such a small thing.
Hi mate, condense traps are always supplied with the boilers, this one looks a little weird because on some of the first Worcester heatslaves the condense traps had to be fitted externally to the boiler. On the newer models they are fitted internally. Without the condense trap you have the potential for flue gasses to exit down the condense pipe. The condense could technically still be classed as part of the flue system so should always be installed to manufactures instructions
Hi mate, I've used them in the past on new builds but nobody locally stocks them to me. I vaguely remember reading somewhere that they are required to be installed inside and out on new builds to comply with building regulations with regards to air testing but I might be wrong on this, thanks for watching and I appreciate the support
Tom hope you are well. If someone has a gas boiler (used only for providing hot water to the bathroom of a house) in a poorly insulated outhouse and the temperature falls below zero for several days/nights, I assume there is a risk of the water in the boiler freezing? Any precautions that you would recommend? Boiler is quite modern - Vaillant TurboMag.
It's always a tough one, best way is always to try and keep a bit of heat in the room if at all possible, it's either that or fully drain everything down when temperatures get really cold, thanks for watching as always 👍
Thanks for watching the videos, honestly it is tough to say how much you make in a day, there are so many variables, I always think the most important thing is the love of the job, esecially when first starting out, plumbing is a great career and you will earn a decent living even if you decide to work for someone
Great content. Learner Question :Is their any reason why you can't put EV on the flow(providing it is before the pump) when converting from Open vent to sealed? I appreciate that EV normally fitted on Return as temperature is lower on return therefore EV will last, in theory, longer .Other than that any other reasons.Another question please: what pressure would you test the heating circuit up to before installing sealed system .Thanks again .Look forward to next video.
The expansion vessel will do exactly the same job on the flow, like you say the return is cooler so may make the vessel last longer, although the new regulations coming in next week will limit flow temperatures ideally to 55 degrees. You would test cooper pipes to 1.5x maximum working pressure which would be 4.5 bar as the prv is set to 3bar for 1 hour to ensure there are no leaks.
Hi Freezefoot. As I recall, the EV goes on the return as close as possible to the boiler and pump because this is the position at which there is neutral pressure, much like the vent/cold feed on a vented system. Between the EV and pump will be negative pressure and the rest of the system, the vast majority, will be under positive pressure. That’s the theory. I guess it means that there is less chance of air being sucked in to the system, but tbh I’ve not experienced the consequences of having it in the wrong place. The idea that air can be drawn into a pressurized heating system that is pressurized up to 1.5 bar still baffles me!!
@@markwebb6741 Thank you for your input. I was doing a OV to sealed conversion at the time and I did put the EV on the Flow behind the pump ,with a anti gravity loop, as fitting on return was difficult due to pipework constraints.
Hi mate, it was the heating side of the cylinder that was pressurised, there's no issues in doing this, the coils are designed to work on sealed heating systems, what would be wrong if the actual cylinder was pressurised, you would find it would not be able to take mains pressure and just explode
That aerjec was incorrectly installed Tom, probably a gas board contractor , pump pulling air from it , instead of it venting directly to the expansion/cold feed tank , your solution was brillo , cheers
Thanks mate, the customer was complaining of banging on the system so this can also indicate a blocked cold feed or other circulation issue. The system seemed to be working well when I left it so hopefully shouldn't have any more issues
@@plumberdan5720 it should have been fitted as high as possible in the cylinder cupboard , expansion and cold feed at the top flow in /out at the bottom , minimum of 600mm above the pump , which should be set at lowest speed possible , Steve
Hi mate, I am personally not a massive fan of dipping the vent pipe into the cistern, I have seen it in the past where water is sucked back down the vent pipe, over time leading to the system sludging up. I realise this may not happen with the pump on speed one, but sometimes customers play with settings and do not always leave things alone. I may be wrong on this matter though so please correct me as I am always keen to learn for next time. I honestly always do what I think is best for the customer and the system but obviously make mistakes and try to learn from experiences and other engineers who have had similar problems, thanks for watching
I reckon that airjec type device on the first job was the source of problem Tom , the cold feed and vent were wrongly positioned....... They were close coupled but reversed! ;-) Micro air leak on return somewhere is another favorite to check. (rad vlv glands) Any which way, pressurizing it should sort.
@@plumberdan5720 I think it looks wrong in the video because of where somebody has installed the filter, I have never been a real fan of them as I have seen so many leaks from them over the years, hopefully the system is all working now and should no longer be a problem either way
@@plumberdan5720 Yeah, your right. just watched again on a proper screen not a phone and I mistakenly thought the flow was coming from the other side........ DOH! ;-)
Its a long story so I will probably save it for another day when the dust has settled but I am just happy to be finished there(nearly), it was only a small job anyway so in the grand scheme of life sometimes its better just to move on and leave with a happy customer, I should have checked it on the boiler service although there was a lot of brambles etc stopping me from seeing it so it is partly my fault for not making the customer aware, I will not charge for this work
They make you paint that class 0 lagging with waterproof paint and 2 coats of it! Why they have to make things so difficult with condensate pipes. I like the condensate pro lagging system but a little expensive!
Hi mate, I've used the condense pro stuff on a couple of jobs and does make for a neat finish, unfortunately no one around me stocks it so you have to order it in. Painting the lagging can be a pain to be honest but I realise this is a requirement to make it fully weatherproof and help prevent freezing, thanks for watching
