They need to add a secret weapon in the DS2 remake that is just a sharpee and make a gag instant boss ender that's him throwing it in Nicole's/Marker beast's face as he says the line for maximum immersion and an instant kill via cutscene. Like cheesing out the final boss of Silent Hill 1 but with a secret item and mocap immersion.
I love that Nicole in Dead Space 2 was just the marker trying to win you over the whole game. Even if the "twist" wasn't always planned I thought it was a great bookend to "Nicole's" involvement in the series.
I literally finished the game 3 days ago. I was so confused as to why this manifestation of the marker was guiding me to destroying itself. When the "twist" happens I was like "oh of course", especially as it was sort of foreshadowed by the first ally who betrays you as well.
Exactly, the marker tells people what they want to hear so they do its bidding. that is the entire basis for unitology. In DS the markers want to be brought back to the planet so convergence can happen in DS2 it wants Isaac to finish the marker again so convergence can happen. In DS3 it wants you to turn off the machine so convergence can continue.
Yeah, I think Chuck is being overly harsh on DS2's "twist" and boss fight with Nicole. It still makes sense in the final version of the game. Honestly, I get the feeling he's still a bit sore about his idea of the ghosts being "good" getting scrapped mid-development of DS2. He mentioned during his playthrough of the remake that he was the one pushing for that direction, whereas Ben Wanat didn't like it and wanted Nicole to be evil. Whether intentional or not, Nicole in DS2 has heavy "psychopomp" vibes during those final chapters where she becomes peaceful and guides Isaac towards accepting his death, and I really like that.
@@rubencastro811Yep agreed. I like the duality, Markers are pro manipulators for a reason. The protective white blood cell idea is still there, and still works, as its only present in the beginning of an infestation.
As long as Isaac shows up in Ishimura 2 says "somebody call for an engineer" and starts planet cracking the moons at some point, you can do anything else you want
I'm mostly with you guys but I do detest the "chosen one special DNA magic" idea What's great about Isaac is that he was a nobody/anybody who's kinda clever, as an engineer, but he has to deal with the cosmic horror of the necromorphs.
This and how does a regular guy beat a literal god by just believing in himself really hard. The only reason he does it in 3 is because he used an alien weapon
I like the idea of this turning him into the chosen on tho, in the lore smart people are touched by the marker differently than others, maybe the sentient markers left a very specific mark on him afterwards when it watched him defy and fight as hard as he did
Or perhaps he's one of a few people that went through trauma and is therefore inoculated from the malignant marker influence somehow Or perhaps he became a "chosen one" because he managed to do eye surgery DURING a convergence event and overpowered a marker because of that As long as his special marker resistance isn't handwaved away as "him always having been special" but actually explained with cause and effect, with his powers being earned, then it would be satisfactory.
yeah, if he was always special it takes away from his every-day man trait, but making him special is fine, because let's not fuck around. You need to have something special in you to survive the shit show that are the events of Dead Space 1, 2 and 3 and its DLC lol@@halsneed6136
And keep the flotilla part. Getting stuck in a Bermuda triangle ship graveyard full of monsters was great. Getting to explore a VERY large zero G environments with Tau Volantis looming in the background was nice. And all the while knowing that whenever you enter a ship there is something waiting for you.
Yeah that first act of dead space 3 was awesome, the skybox, the gameplay, the setting and the atmosphere were just that good, it really felt like the first game
Yeah. The mission when youre fixing the ship to get down to Tau volantis is phenomenal. Your background is too good! Surrounded by space junk, Tau volantis and the lifeless space itself
Dead Space 3 letting you float between a fleet and the fact that you can travel through the ishimura in the remake with or without the tram was amazing
I liked the concept of Unitologist extremists in Dead Space 3, sooner or later the universe is bound to have people of the likes of 'em. If only such concept was executed more thoughtfully.
@playmsbk well it makes sense that the ones in dead space 1 were moderates since they were the religious ones waiting for convergence with blind faith and they only became more overzealous when the marker was discovered. The ones in the third game weren't following blind faith, they were making their religious beliefs take shape thru action so they could reach convergence.
@@playmsbk I always assumed that the marker was playing a very large role in what they were doing onboard while the command staff was just planting seeds that they didn't even understand
Keeping the lore of dead space 3 but fundamentally changing the game to fit the series sounds like the best way to do the story justice to me. I also really like the idea of an Alien: Isolation style or Resident Evil VII style spin off. There are a lot of really cool stories that could be told in a format similar to that. Anyway, awesome video! A lot of really great topics were brought up
Agreed. Some of the actual story moments of that game are really good. And as far as I'm concerned General Mahad is still the sanest person in the DS universe. Didn't get seduced by the dark side and instead made sure nothing would get out. Because apparently, nobody including Isaac has ever considered not listening to the voices.
If they just made it more horror oriented, got rid of the stupid love triangle, and change ellie back from a useless cleavage damsel it could be pretty good
I think carver could still be a in dead space 3 as like a B side story, similar to Leon and Claire stories in resident evil 2 remake, he has a pretty compelling story that could be told and nicely bookended in one game if they wanted that would flesh out tou volantes more too
I'm still playing dead space remake dead space 2 and 3 in order I still have them all on series x but can't wait for motive to start making dead space 2 and to show a first look at the graphics.
I just want to say, these discussions about how a story works and the ins and outs of writing has been very valuable and informative to me. Thanks captainbribo :)
It was interesting yes, but no matter how many terms they throw around it basically came down to 'stick to the tried-and-true formula and give the people what they want'. Not exactly ground breaking stuff 🤷
In terms of expanding the Dead space IP into different genres, the multiplayer aspect from 2 being tied to the sprawls security team fighting off the outbreak is what hooked me in. If they want to introduce more styles of games for the IP it's better to have lore written around such scenarios & gauging it from the fans to further pursue i.e. a hit squad sent to do impossible tasks in quarantine zones, A hardcore survival horror take or a [redacted survivors] RE:Outbreak take on locations from the main story & expanded lore.
I dunno if EA/Motive would be able to contract Chuck to consult on any future Dead Space projects, but at the very least there does seem to be HUGE mutual respect here and it's nice that these discussions are public so that even if Motive is unable to directly go to Chuck for EA political reasons, they do at least have these publicly disclosed ideas to refer to.
I do like Wanat’s idea of 4 with you playing as Ellie and going from planet to planet searching for survivors maybe mix the ideas with Dark Isaac and have you switch between the perspectives with you playing as the villain and the hero
I think that would be an amazing idea. But i would like to change the isaac story a little bit. Sure it will still be matrix like but i think at the beginning of the game. The marker hivemind knows that he is within their "System" so to speak. So they take control over his mind space, keeping him trapped with. Isaac would have to navigate his worst nightmares again, through parts of the ishimura and tideman station to tau volantis. This would be 1/4th of the game of isaac escaping his mind prison and into the hive mind necroworld where the rest of his story would take place. Going through the unknown history and origins of these bretheren moons. Essentially isaac is the virus to the necromorphs. So think of Alan Wake trapped in the dark place. Or maybe silent hill or evil within like. While Ellie would go through her journey finding survivors and possibly finding planet crackers to fight against the moons and necromorphs.
Tormentor and Ubermorph having more lore and focus would be nice as the tormentor only being a cutscene boss was very weird and you'd think with a name like Tormentor it would be a reccuring enemy like mr x.
Haven't watched the full video yet, but I remember being very intrigued by Ben Wanat's pitch of a post-apocalyptic space scavenging Ellie story and wanted to share my own take on the role Isaac could have played: He would have been Ellie's 'Nicole'. After being captured and absorbed by the Moons, Isaac has become the herald of the Necromorphs and would have sent ghostly psionic visions to haunt Ellie. It would be quite ironic for Isaac to become the new Altman - forced into the role of martyred leader for a cult he truly despises, enslaved by the Necromorphs through manipulating Ellie into seeking him out. I could see the climax of Dead Space 4 being set on an Earth converted into one giant Necromorph hub, with Ellie plummeting deep beneath the abyss where the Black Marker was located and eventually locating the 'heart' of the Brethren Planet where Isaac, now converted into the central host of the hivemind, pleads Ellie to kill him. The end of the Necromorph apocalypse could require players to kill Isaac. As for Wanat's ideas about the threat beyond the Necromorphs that would've been revealed in DS4, somehow tied to the Necros' origin story and 'humanity's purpose in this dark universe', I could imagine a revelation that the Necros' rivals were bio-engineers (think of the Engineers from Prometheus or the Precursors from Halo) that seeded countless planets with life that was intended to serve a military purpose. Defeating the Necromorphs might lead these Engineers to see humans as worthy of forced 'ascension'. Alternatively, the Necromorphs might have been reacting to a dark energy incursion, choosing to attempt to consolidate as much energy and consciousness as possible so that they could wait out the inevitable entropy the longest; in videogame terms, this could appear in the form of 'dark energy' creatures, or maybe robots created by them as the non-organic counterpart to the Necromorphs.
I always figured planet cracking would be involved. Humanity sacrifices its home world to destroy the brethren moons (like fling giant pieces of earth at the moons) and the remaining millions of humans venture out into the starts and recolonize and rebuild.
I think the easiest way to fix the confusion about Nicole's Ghost would be to keep it as is but make her dialogue show she is not trying to hurt Isaac but wants him to destroy the entity even though he knows it will make her disappear.. It would keep essentially everything the same but dramatically change the tone from "She was a fake from the marker" to "I had to 'kill' her memory to save myself and everyone" - I think DS3 with a Dark Isaac would be absolutely amazing. - I wouldn't mind a "Gears of War" Dead Space if that was the goal and identity from the start. I think DS3 identity was expected to be DS1/2 so it ended up being a surprise to most.. But Playing as Ellie and Carver in Dead Space GoW would be pretty awesome and actually make the coop something special.. Especially if you could get to a point where you find other Lifeforms even if they were Necromorphed already
Talking about traversing genres... Dead Space: Extraction is a worthy entry albeit it's in a now extinct genre of rail shooters. Makes me think that I could absolutely play Dead Space as a horror FPS (F.E.A.R comes to mind) or even a Mass Effect look-alike with all that choose your destiny/save the galaxy crap, but darker...
lmao man, some of the shit they talked about is pure insanity. Talking about destiny and making Isaac out to be this special guy, shadow Isaac and being the herald of the markers... absolute craziness. You guys must have come up with that binging on edibles. Dead Space was creepy cause it was an engineer in a super fucked up situation that didn't just seem dangerous and horrific, but even paranormal. It was bigger than him.
Having just watched up to the point where they say Isaac could control necromorphs by the end of DS4.... I'm glad Dead Space stopped at 3 if that was what was going to happen to it.
I agree, part of the charm of the game is a normal dude in a really bad situation. But I think it's the envitable conclusion story arc for making all these sequels. If he was still a normal dude by the forth game I think it would had been criticized for being stale and repeating the same thing over and over again.
They are talking about theme. If they approached the series without accounting for theme, it would have been instead a series of redundant stories about normalguy somehow winding up in the same situation over and over again.
One way for the franchise to continue after Isaac is to take the Silent Hill 2 approach. Take a new character, emphasize on the psychological side, and a good/compelling story arc.
A detail I wanted to pick at a little bit. Early on, he mentions that his version of 4 and his counterparts would be very different. Especially that tidbit about it not being about Issac, but Elle instead. I think that even considering making an entry into a series, that's supposed to be about a specific person's spiritual journey, that would have nothing to do with the person in question, shows a great disrespect for the project.
Why can't we have a Dead Space game where Isaac defeats the Marker threat for good? No weird Dark Isaac, or Necromorph Isaac, but an Isaac we saw at the end of Dead Space 3 who becomes a leader and realizes he needs to play his part in ending the necromorph threat. The Hero's Journey ultimately ends with the hero returns home after accomplishing their goal, it would be nice to see Isaac get to have a life with Ellie he never got to have with Nicole.
because that's the ending to the wrong genre, honestly. dead space are cosmic horror games. isaac clarke is a tragic hero. he doesn't get the happy ending.
@@DarkestMirrored That's why it works that everyone died in Deadspace 3 The story was fine The evil Isaac route they're going in the new Deadspace is pretty lame
I'm very thankful this came up in my feed. This is the passion and dedication missing in the arts today, and seeing it gives me hope for once that cinema and gaming can change for the better. In regards to the conversation on serialization, I believe Evil Dead is a good example of horror serialized. If we take the comics, even as alternate realities, we still see plenty of ways the necromomicon plagues Ash. After 30 years of running from it in the main timeline, we see an older Ash in Ash Vs. Evil Dead, who is tired and not as capable. He denies his role as savior and after finally accepting it, defeats the Khandarian demon, but it comes too late. So, we could, in theory, keep a perpetual cycle of a character not growing more powerful, or by denying their role for a relatively long time, if we focus on the delivery of the horror, and less on the character. Ash is a phenomenal character who goes through a tragic to him but entertaining story to us way. But he still always just barely gets by. Issac as a delivery of Dead Space, and not the character, could go from bigger and bigger set pieces, just because he is intertwined with the markers. They make it so he's always there, and after 4 or 5 games, he can finally go to the source, and if he wins, spend the rest of his life seeking markers to end them, or if he dies, his fight can be inherited by those around him. Not exactly what I would wish for Dead Space, but the belief is there because Issac, Ellen, Ash, Laurie, all of them exemplifies the human trait of survival and the will to live. But they also exemplify REAL human traits. Denial, delusion, anger. Any number of real emotions and reactions that could cause another serendipitous event towards a necromorph outbreak, ya know?
A hilarious ending would be Isaac convincing the Brethren Moons of the wonders of sustainable farming techniques, causing them to just collect those that die naturally and work with the living. The human population essentially replaces itself every century, meaning they could get a moon every couple decades (with multiple planets) from sustainably harvested populations rather an a couple dozen moons every sixty million years. Straight up beat them with his greatest asset, hie mind and his ingenuity.
Gotta love how often they have to disclose "We're not saying this was meant to be the canon or this is what they should've done" given how often nerds get that exact impression from videos like this.
I could not thank you guys enough for this whole series. I am novice writer who is in the beginning stages of building an indie game with a small team of friends, and being able to hear all of this information from one of the lead writers of Dead Space has been a dream. Dead space 1 is in my top 5 greatest games of all time, and the universe is so rich and thought provoking. I adore this world, and I have cherished it deeply since I was 14. Ever since the DLC for Dead Space 3 released, I have been dying to know what comes next, and this video gave me that after 10 years of believing I would never have that closure. Chuck, you are a true visionary. Your work is beautiful and inspiring and I hope I can bring even a fraction of your creativity to my writing. If you'd be willing, I'd be honored to get to talk with you a bit about writing in games as I'm incredibly eager to learn and it is my dream to do what you do. You have so much knowledge on building these worlds and how to tell stories that are introspective and impactful, and those are the types of stories I want to tell. The ability to learn from someone like you would be the opportunity of a lifetime.
So awesome of you to have filmed this - it's such a joy to hear your thoughts on DS, it's invaluable to a huuuge fan of the franchise since day 1. DS forever, I hope Motive get to continue your excellent work!
Homeworld: Cataclysm had an interesting approach with a 'necromorph'-esque plot that involved a vaccine, a final showdown, and an implied epilogue extermination of the remaining threat which was cool. I think if you wanted to create a 'continuous world', you'd basically need to take the aftermath of the first game and draaaaaag it out. - Civil war between the fundamentalists and the earth government - An arms race between humanity and the remaining brethren moons (they evolve while humanity invents) - The occaisional human faction that has a brethren moon on life support, trying to 'integrate' with it - A resurgence of a hostile race that was originally hunted by the moons - A possible 'apex predator' that actually treats the necromorphs like prey - Humanity stumbles across something that suggests the brethren moons werent the only reason for the fermi paradox - Humanity salvages an inter-galactic ftl drive and accidentally finds a galaxy with an entirely new level of 'neco-singularlity'
I'm actually more of a fan of stories that don't get happy endings than ones that do get happy endings. Like take Dark Souls for example. I LOVE that game series and it's lore. And I love how your role as the protagonist is that of someone who's nobody special. You're just some dude or chick who happened to make it further than the last guy or girl, nothing more nothing less. And I think Half-Life was an expert in terms of game design at least of the trope that, as the G-Man himself put it in Half-Life 2; "The right man in the wrong situation can make all the difference in the world."
I think a good way to continue the story post DS4 is having a character tracking down remnants of markers on other planets while also exploring humanities reactions to surviving what was essentially a religious cataclysm and perhaps explore the remaining factions of unitologists who survived convergence. There could also be a timeskip to see the ramifications of a humanity going unchecked with planet cracking/resource farming within the universe
As long as there are NO fucking Jacob Danik, Romance of any sort that interferes with the plot drastically like in DS3, or GOD FORBID woke, or inclusivity shit in ANY future Dead Space game, we’re golden. Last thing Dead Space needs is a fucking Abby character like the one from The Last Testosterone Lesbian: Part II
I'd actually like to see a Dead Space 3 that's co-op where both people are playing as Isaac and their partner appears to them to be shadow Isaac and throughout the game Isaac learns to work with this split version of himself and by the end makes HIMSELF whole again.
If Dead space entered the Xcom style realm, It should expand the story of the civil war mentioned in 3 but with a sudden necromorph outbreak midgame. Focusing on massive amounts of necromorphs pouring at the humans in wave after wave as supplies are ground down and command gradually destroys itself in marker fueled madness. 10/10 GoY
I have nothing against Chuck Beaver, but it's for the best that this draft of Dead Space 4 never saw the light of day. Superimposing the cliche hero's journey, Christ figure formula over Dead Space wouldn't serve the franchise in any way. I think most fans would appreciate the franchise returning to its roots in terms of horror while taking the plot in an exciting new direction draped in mystery.
My thoughts on how Dead Space could expand as a franchise involve expanding the lore into different timelines. I think it would really be important for any installments outside the Isaac's saga to keep evolving the overarching lore, and diving into different time periods could be the way to go. Kind of like Star Wars's Original, Prequel and Sequel timelines, Dead Space already has a setup for a prequel timeline with Altman and the original small-scale outbreak on Earth. And a sequel timeline for all it's worth could jump like 1000 years into the future, have a completely different flavor, explaining things about the original saga retroactively. Being prequel and sequel timelines would really help expand the scale of the whole giant cosmic horror thing, evolve it into an entire fictional history; they'd just have to retain the emphasis on how Isaac's story is always central to the whole ordeal, the most decisive part of the history of that universe, so if it's a prequel story then it informs the eventual inevitability of Isaac's story happening later, and if it's a sequel story then it displays how Isaac's story continues reverberating in the events that keep unfolding even in such distant future. I'm not sure that Dead Space can branch out too far genre-wise, at least not right away, but i think it's got a solid chance at staying afloat this time around. The market for horror games has grown a lot in the last 10 years, Resident Evil proved that there can be mainstream success in a serialized horror franchise even after losing it's footing once. I'm not a business expert so i may have the wrong idea about this, but i think right now the only thing that's holding Dead Space back is lack of EA's faith, they were seemingly not too sure about the reception this remake might get, they weren't really that heavily advertising it and they released it almost alongside RE4 which is simply unwise, since that's the most direct competitor in the genre. Meanwhile the fan's reception of the game was phenomenal. I just hope they noticed that and will put more effort into making DS2 Remake's release a really big deal.
Dead Space is such an amazing idea. It was the reason I bought a PS3 and the reason my son's name is Isaac. He's now 9 and is just starting the original on the PS3. Like me, he loves the gameplay, the lore, and the sounds.......my goodness....the sounds!!! Thanks for the videos giving us SO MUCH MORE content!🤘🏻
Honestly I just wish they didnt try to explain any of the "white blood cell vs evil marker hallucination" at all. Having the "ghosts" show up with varying intentions seeds doubt, and leaves things a mystery. The more they explain about the markers, the less scary the games feel (with a few key exceptions that could still be explained). Halo's Flood suffer from the same problem. They were fun as space zombies, the Gravemind elevated them to pure horror when he was just this eldrich space being. Then they tried explaining what the gravemind was, where they came from, and now the Flood barely hold any weight in the modern Halo community. 343 wont even use them, and half the fans dont care if they ever do at this point. Explain the markers to us a little, explain some of their effects on people. But dont explain everything, not the ghosts or the creators of the marker. The brethern moons fine in concept, dont take it past that. Dont answer the "what came first, the marker or the moon?" question. Leave the fans something to speculate about, leave the community wanting answers theyll never fully have. Thats one of the BEST hooks for cosmic horror, its the kinda hook people will keep biting on. I dont wanna know which ghosts are evil, which are good. If theyre self motivated, a part of you, a part of the marker. Thats the kinda thing I wanna speculate about with friends waiting for the next release
The point discussed around 1:42:00 regarding franchising horror got me thinking, and I think I'm closer to the Captain here, where it actually can be thrown into perpetual motion with a proper setup. The main character can come prepared from physical, mental, or social conditions (or the combination of all of them, like James Bond), and I think that social aspect of it can be the one to keep it fresh, where a character, for example, gets constantly ping-ponged by several opposing sides which the character needs to contact in order to survive against the force of nature (be it Godzilla, necromorphs, or something ese). It is also possible to modify physical and mental preparedness, but I think it is hard to use in a long-term situation, especially in game development. However, a scripted scene thrown in here and there where main character is unable to move, see, hear, or understand what's real is always keeping the player on their toes (which was demonstrated by the tentacles in DS1 and hallucinations throughout the series in general)
I would love to remake DS2 with the Necromorphs with Nicole helping Isaac fight the CEC to the marker after letting them into the government building for a short while like the mission from Halo 3 with the flood helping the Chief for a section of a mission. I miss the DS2 multiplayer and playing as the Necromorphs something like that or adding Necromorphs invasions would be something I would love to see, also fighting humans at the same time is something I actually liked in DS3 BUT DS3 didn't do human's very well, I want to see them using stasis and kinesis too like holding boxes as cover while they push up to the player or even using launching slasher arms at you too lol. Imagine how sick it would be seeing the power and carnage of the Ubermorph rippping and tearing it's way through the building with you until you have the marker turn on you at the end.
i always thought the nicole fight in dead space 2 was the markers last defense against isaac who had more or less accepted the tragedy that befell him and was ready to do whatever it took to make things right. Also I will say that there is a draw for other types of dead space. Dead Space 2s multiplayer was godtier. I really hope Motive keeps that when they remake it. It was SO well done and SUPER fun
As a veteran who has dealt with and known others who have dealt with PTSD 3, it should stay the way it is. Mostly. My reasoning: From the first game to the second Isaac had no break. While taking place a few years after Isaac was basically in suspended animation the whole time. One of the main reasons he is not as destroyed at Stross. So he didn't even go from one crisis to the next, he is basically in the same crisis, just a different environment. Even with the influence of the Marker he is trying to come to grip with what has happened previously. The way he is written ( to me) Isaac is a man of action. There is a problem? What is it? How do I fix it? Get it done. That kind of mindset let's you get things done when fit hits the shan. Which going into 3 shows how Isaac has been dealing with the trauma. Major PTSD. 1. Starting a relationship with Ellie out of a mutually shared hardship. Which happens quite a bit. Yet they have completely different personality types. 2. Isaac is a man of action, but it seems he is not a man of direction. As is his want to just hide. Where Ellie is the opposite. She has been poked and is now ready to fight. 3. The Ishimura was experienced after the fact, while Titan was happening around him. How many did he see slaughtered? In the chapel and the school with the Pack? I mean children. They are monsters, but they were children what just a couple hours ago? The set piece boss that was a pregnant mother at the core. That is a lot to be hit with. Not to mention the exploding babies. Isaac's ability to goal focus is the only way he got through that, where so many others break. As such it compartmentalizes all of that trauma for later to deal with. Which with the little time we spend in his apartment you can see he's having no luck. As he is in hiding he can't just seek out a therapist to cry to. He is also still plagued with what was placed inside his head. 4. The tone between 1/2 and 3 being more action oriented makes sense as in the moment Isaac can focus. This is the job, this is how I get it done. I've been through this before. Also you have the Unitologists that you are dealing with. With how they believe in the whole Convergence idea, it makes absolute sense that you would be dealing with them trying to kill you. So the cover mechanic makes sense. Now, I personally loved the weapon creating. Just have so many different styles to play with. You could set up and play balls to the walls or be more careful and methodical With the Awakened DLC I just figured Isaac having the hallucinations again was due to the brother moons attempting to either kill or break him. As they were aware of the threat that he possessed. Yes rework the story so Carver is better. Especially when in or out of co-op. I know you guys had things you were made to throw in, so let me say thank you for the subtle way you let us get around the micro transactions. Ration deals were well used.
The thing i love the most about the DS series is that the more you look at the environments, the more you find it ALL resembles convergence and the effects of the markers in some way or another. I suspect anyone who experiences this knows the feeling of a blurring of "realities" between the game and the real world. The more you see in the games, the more it translates everywhere else. I'm not crazy btw, its just scary and genius design. Talk about breaking the fourth wall.
The ending of 3 was actually narratively satisfying for me. The point of cosmic horror is that humanity is not special, so having the series end with the Moons winning was a fitting ending for me. That said, the DOOM fan in me is sad that in Isaac never got to give a final FUCK YOU AND FUCK YOUR MARKERS by planet cracking one of them
When It comes to Dead Space 3. I think it should be explained better what happened to the Moon and how the Unitologists gained so much power to basically activate a bunch of markers in a bunch of colonies and kill EarthGov. Are going to ignore that a Necromorph outbreak happened in the Moon next to Earth?
It would be super cool if all of part 4 was Isaac going on a rescue mission of earth inside Dark Isaacs mind, teaming up with previously fallen characters with slightly different identities, slowly piecing together that he's dead, trapped inside of a necromorph. Maybe have Ellie interact with Dark Issac towards the end of the game as earth is almost completely destroyed, giving good Isaac the push he needs to rest control. The brethren moons I advertently gave him influence between the marker code in his head and prying Earth's location from his mind on Tao Volantis. Making peace with all those who had died, his mind world merges with reality and he bids Ellie a stoic goodbye as he makes peace with his fate and sails into the blackness of the edge of the universe with the moons and leaving a small handful of people to rebuild humanity.
Chuck and the boys created something that will forever remain timeless.. In the survival horror/Comic Horror Genre.. Personally, it doesn't get any better than Dead Space when it comes to the Innovation and Originality of the story
This was wonderful, listening to the both of you nerd about the narrative and such. Also good on both of you for not being butthurt that someone else remade a game, and in a lot of ways made it better than you were able to, at the time. I can only hope and pray that if the remakes continue they'll take some cues from you about doing the Dead Space franchise justice.
Damn this was a great video, good thing you are best friends with the main writer producer of Dead space 1, 2 and 3 yuhhh I watched the whole video my guy
I think the idea of dark isaac could use work, maybe Motive could create a character in the remake for 2 that is like mercer, but this time the Marker takes note of him. And turns him into a intelligent necromorph. Instead of a dark isaac, it'd be that guy, maybe taking isaac's form sometimes.
I personally found the ending for DS2 extremely powerful, and I couldn't ask for a better ending. I may be a bit bias, considering DS2 is my favorite game of all time. And the fact that the marker is just straight up destroyed afterward doesn't make much sense. But it just feels so right. I think it's totally fair to let Isaac be the victorious overcommer of his visions and the marker in the end, with Ellie in the ship beside him. Such a perfect masterpiece. DS2 Forever💙
Can chuck beaver have an influence with motive to rewrite dead space 3 and to get motive to make dead space 4. Chuck Beaver needs to work with Motive on dead space 4.
In my opinion about Dead Space 3, it indeed needs a total rewrite. Made again from scratch. It felt as if it was made by the publisher to appeal to every trend back then, instead of the developer. I would scratch the moons - they felt as a desperate attempt to catch attention by mindlessly going "hurr durr bigger baddie is better baddie". Numerous games have proven that localized threat and survival can be as tense as a galactic one. It just needs to be presented well. It can be better than "fuck it, let's blow up Earth". I think that getting rid of co-op is also a must. Being alone with occasional reunions with npc's to relieve tension are enough. I would just want them to go "smarter" instead of "bigger, louder and dumber"
Its so weird to see the direction of Dead Space took once 2 was came out. They wanted to expand to a certain direction. Everyone didn't know what the intent of the marker was since the spin off games, visual novel, novels, and movie they all worked to together in a common lore. Along with Issac being bothered by his dads kidnapping, i think his mom dying, and along with Nicole sending a disturbing message. He felt that by seeing Nicole after being separated for a while would help him get through these troubles. Then including Dead Space No Unknown Survivors does expand. Downfall including excavator markings that are 300 years old. when they discover market in Aegis 7.
I haven't fully finished the video yet, but this has been almost a gut-punch and I have to talk about it before I proceed. If I change my thoughts by the end, I'll add an edit to the bottom of this. As someone who is a huge fan of what Dead Space is now, including DS3's lore and some of the story elements in the later part of the game, I feel like I almost prefer what it became instead of some of the ideas here. To me, the idea of Nicole being the marker fucking with isaac all along felt so natural and well made that hearing it wasn't always the plan almost felt disheartening? It felt so logical after DS1, that it would latch on and exploit part of his mind that was still vulnerable. The twist is 100% better than the idea of her being helpful all along. The shadow Isaac concept is cool, and that could have worked well, but I hated hearing the idea that something was still on the table with a love triangle. This was easily the WORST part of DS3. Isaac getting over Nicole in 2 felt good and like he had made substantial progress as a person even if he was still mentally shattered after the events of DS1 and 2, and a 3rd game with him having Nicole hallucinations would have just gotten tiresome. I also did not like any ideas presented for DS4 so far. Isaac being a necromorph all along and maybe even controlling them and resisting the marker despite being a necromorph is so far out of what Dead Space is, a fairly grounded Alien/the Thing style lovecraftian horror around the concepts of the fermi paradox that deals with heavy ideas of psychological horror as well as body horror. I am almost glad we got what we got and that we didn't get DS4, if this was the direction it would have been. I don't like the current ending either with the DLC as it feels super hamfisted, I felt DS3 works best as a narrative trilogy and Isaac sacrificing himself and growing as a human and putting all others before himself and learning all the truths regarding the markers and their true origins feels like such a good payoff to the series, and further extending it past that felt needless. If a DS4 did have to exist, I think the version of Ellie as the protagonist works 500x better. EDIT: I got a bit further and I'm dipping out here. Isaac controlling Necromorphs and Ellie coming in on a planet cracker has to be parody right? What?
Keep in mind that this is only Chuck's side of the story, and according to him in his playthrough of the remake, Nicole being helpful all along was specifically his idea for DS2, and the other main writer (Ben Wanat) was not on board with it. It's kind of a fascinating difference in opinion when you look into it, Chuck seems completely convinced that the "ghosts" should've been benevolent because otherwise, he feels like the story of Dead Space is too negative and that it's missing some obligatory positive elements (which is kind of a baffling opinion to me. It's a horror series, it's perfectly fine for its setting to be all negative, you don't have to feel beholden to traditional storytelling patterns and conventions). Chuck also, weirdly, seems to still be clinging onto and wanting helpful Nicole to be a thing, even though the series has completely dropped the helpful ghosts idea since the mid-development of DS2 (and the remake has explicitly established her to be evil and to be the Marker messing with Isaac). Meanwhile, if you look into Ben Wanat's work, he's done a lot of heavily Lovecraftian creature designs and has stated in an interview that he wishes he could've captured even more of a sense of dread and an impending, inevitable doom in Dead Space's story. Ben also became creative director for the franchise after the release of DS2 and was responsible for writing the background lore of DS3, which is why that game gets really into the cosmic horror angle. I wish we could get his side of the story on these things.
It was still…. SO AWESOME… that dead space 3 was co-op… playing with friends and revisiting it, now that I’m in the mid 20s, with friends is still awesome
The only way there can be a fourth Dead Space game, is if part 3 was either rewritten or erased completely. The ending of DS3 pretty much shows that all humans are extinct because of those Alien Moon creatures finding their way to Earth.
Speaking on the ending topic of Star Wars borrowing horror elements pre-Disney - Republic Commando (the game) and KOTOR2 are pretty notable examples. RC is a tactical squad-based shooter that has a chapter dedicated to the player being separated from the comfort and safety of their squad and forced to fight an entirely new race of foe (Trandoshans) set on a ghost ship the Republic lost comms with. Cue jump scares, horror orchestrals, and watching the few surviving clones onboard meet brutal ends. At one point your character falls into a pit of clone corpses and has to crawl their way out. KOTOR2 quite literally starts as a horror game. The player wakes up alone in a facility where some catastrophic series of events has killed the entire crew and must spend the next few hours wandering the empty halls interacting with the ghosts and echoes of the dead via holographic recordings to piece together what happened and why. All while being hunted by some (sometimes literally) invisible foe. Your first companion, Kreia, literally rises from the dead like a zombie and offers little in way of comfort or companionship to alleviate the overhanging sense of dread. Not to mention the (now legends) Deathtroopers novel.
On the Dead Space 2 to 3 front. I would like to see Issac actually move on from Nicole, to say his goodbyes when the needle goes in, and for that to be his last moment with "her." Then during the boss battle, make it clear it's a mocking copy that the marker has created. Have the end play out just as it did, including the gag- but behind Ellie, in the back of the ship somewhere, have another Issac. In the third game, reveal this shadow Issac, not as a failed part of his mind, but as the Convergence event that was forming at the end of DS 2, having transfered it's birthing consciousness into Isaac's head. Then in the third game, when you play as Shadow Issac, you are literally being controlled by this malignant entity who is possessing you. When you are playing those parts, you of course wouldn't know you are doing bad, but other characters dialogue would be the only give away that you didn't actually just do what you thought. Also have the Unitologists actually care about the conservation of flesh, and be working with Issac, without the player, or good Issac know it. In the end, have him realize there is a dark "version" of himself, and defeat it during the boss battle. Then get smashed by a moon. In Dead Space 4, instead of necromorph Issac, I would like to see him BE the moon he killed, but he, and the viewer doesn't know it. In Dead Space 3's end, have him wake up, but completely alone. In 4, have him begin to gather up and try to repair a ship. In reality he is ordering necromorphs to do this, and the only combat here, is in his mind, where we the player are, thinking he is trying to assemble a ship to escape by hand. Once he gets to space, reveal that things have changed, and show that Ellie has returned with a greater force... But that time has passed. Have her be surprised Issac is still alive, but horrified, that also the Moon is rising. Focus around him trying to get to her, and her trying to get to him, and the realization that if he stops trying to get to her, the necromorphs stop attacking her ship(s.) I like the idea of him fighting against the humans, without ever knowing it- while also fighting the last remnants of the necromorphoc intellect left inside of the moon. At the end, I would like to see him realize fully, that he is the Moon now, end surrender his consciousness, to the network, to block out humanity from its vision. *Waves hands, space magic brain power sacrifice.* Esit:Basically I like the overall ideas for DS4, but don't like the idea of Issac being mentally broken for 4 games
They left on a cliff hanger for dead space 3 they should alest do Dead space 4 it would be cool to see dead space 4 I like the story and they need to continue it.
Counter offer: Tormentor and giant tripod get larger parts in the game, remake means physics fix, also include some more survivor encounters, seeing as its right at the start of the outbreak.
Motive did get the blueprints for the original Ishimura I believe and fully built from the ground up; also there **IS** a Star Wars horror novel that has zombies, I’m not sure of its canonicity currently but it’s lore is pretty cool
It's tough making a multiplayer horror game. The only way I could see it working is replacing horror with tension. So set the game like the Ishimura but you're a squad of four marines, now your supplies are limited, you can't pick up ammo from necromorphs you can only resupply from your docked ship or actual armouries/security rooms. Now you have to leave someone at the ship who acts as your map/guide/supply/door hacker / guard cause if you leave the ship alone, the monsters will wreck it. That way you can have someone organically communicate to the team "Guys I hear something you best get back otherwise we're fucked" Even give them a Aliens style sensor that beeps. Having limited ammunition would also force players to choose wether a fight is worth it or run away to conserve resources at the cost of adding to the tension and taking longer to solve a certain puzzle/objective
Chuck's right in the sense that horror is a pretty suffocating genre to work with, especially in a film or narrative point, but I see where Brian's trying to challenge that a bit with the scope of gaming. Especially when he mentions getting other character's perspectives involved for players to explore. Silent Hill and Resident Evil are great examples in exploring the same horror, but through different lenses, like Chris/Jill, Harry/James, Leon/Claire, you get the gist. Another good premise is being the terror itself too. Playing as The Marker and screwing with people's heads could be a cool concept to work with as well. Hell, they could have their own asym horror with that if they played their cards right. So long as it's sensible to the core of Dead Space, there's a few more things that could work.
Oh and one more thing... after so many years and Isaac now finally back - I don't think people would want him to die at the end. Maybe if it was a japanese franchise, they're more open to heroic deaths.
Actually it makes sense for him today, since this is whats been happening to everyone with an outbreak Him being alive in the end is mary sue level of content and this is what DS3 did right
@@WithGas ...No? We know its not impossible to fight the necromorphs, and there were people that did so succesfully, with the killing blows being the markers making them go mad and kill each other. Isaac was both highly skilled (not necessarily in combat but in other areas) and lucky that he was an 'architect' in the eyes of the marker, who didn't want him to die just yet.
@@mrjtfang2 I'm not arguing for him dying... quite the contrary, I don't wanna play a ton of games with him only to see him end up dying in the end. Just saying that realistically it's highly improbable that a person survives the beginning of DS1, so those select few are already blessed. See the comment I replied to.
@@WithGas I'm saying your counter-point was weak. I disagree, Isaac could die easily in a more satisfying game and people would be fine with it. That being said, I also think what'd be more important than isaac surviving or dying is the rest of humanity. Think dead space ought to end in a pyrrhic victory for the universe probably. Necromorphs are erased, but humanity had to die for it to happen.
About the part where Carver says "all the bad I've done" and Isaac's response. Was that Volition basically acknowledging to the player that Dead Space fans wouldn't be likely to appreciate the stuff going on in DS3 as their hand was being forced in a certain direction? It sure always felt like it.
the part that doesn't make sense with the marker needing Issac is how it's also actively trying to kill him in gameplay. That needs to be sorted out in narrative.
The Markers don't control the Necromorphs. Not directly, anyway. They create them but they don't guide their actions. That's why you have, for example, Danik's Unitologists getting attacked by the Necromorphs in DS3 even though they're actively trying to turn off the Machine to free the Brethren Moon.
I really hope we get Dead Space 4. I loved what they did for Dead Space Remake, incorporating the moons, Jacob and Cross' story, and Issac's guilt and hopefully we will get it seeing how successful Dead Space is capable of being.
Some really good ideas on how to do a proper Dead Space series given the retrospect they have now. It is a shame that it we probably won't ever see a proper conclusion to Issac's story.
Say what you will about DS3 as a whole, but I personally have always found it's ending bitter sweet. Issaac gave it his best, but in the end, it wasn't enough to save humanity, and that's okay. Not every game needs a "good" ending where the hero wins... especially one as bleak as the Dead Space series.
honestly dead space 3's dungeons idea was spot on. The parts in the beginning in the city against the humans were annoying & elly being such a biyatch (of course we think so because i cant see what happened in the relationship on both sides...i mean isaac saved everyones ass...wheres the grace lol) couldve left the game. Also the elton john ass dude lol couldve left too. It was so sick going into the alien ruins but at that point you just wanted the game to end. The part before at the facility with the first alien in crosssections was super fascinating too. Overall I loved a lot of the locations it took you...just the bloat really hurt.
I just feel like Capcom’s stories regarding shadowy organizations and infectious horrors that transform average innocent people into monsters but still have good, happy endings more or less is what Dead Space should also have. We got our cosmic horror ending at 3. Even Lovecraft’s stories have endings where people escape with their lives and manage to keep the entities or creatures or knowledge they’ve discovered in the forgotten darkness. You could do the same for Isaac.
