Designing the Impossible! - A Perfect 40K Intro Box 

Hope you all enjoy, a link to Mark Dickey's video is in the description and if you somehow didn't see it yet I highly recommend it if Boarding Actions interests you. Please don't forget the RU-vid pleasantries, because we forgot to mention them in our discussion, as per usual... NEXT WEEK: C̵̡̖̤̺̗̦̪͎͌̒H̷̭̹̬̻͖̭̫̰̝̪̳͐Ẳ̵̼̪̰̫͛͆͒͆͆͌͗̿Ơ̸̢͍͓̱̙̣̮̞͎̖̜̓̐̑̑̍̀̄̓͘S̸̮͚̼̄̅̏̂̓̅͐̾ ̶̡͖̜͉̫͍͉̈́̈́̀̈̌͐̈́̀͐̉͊͘̚͝Ŕ̴̨̹͆̓̈̓̌͛̕E̶̛̼͊͂̽͋̊͆̽̕͝͝Í̶̱̬͑̒͜G̶̬̞̠̻̘͖̲͉̰͛̑̉̅͊͒͠N̷̨͍̝͍̺̞̟̅́͌̆̈́͝S̷̨͈̰̫͇̘̲͖̯͓̪͖̣̻̬͋

PH: "We got an idea" GW: Nods head PH: "Army starter set around 60-80 dollars" GW: Starts wincing PH: "It should have the rules of the army" GW: Flips papers on desk "you already blew the budget bois"

GW : "How much gross profit do we get from this set again?" Poorhammer : "About 70% give or take" GW : "WHAT?! Are you trying to bankrupt us??? How a company would survive selling products with less than 300% GP???"

Kudos to the editor for continuing the official Poorhammer meme “I do wanna keep this all positive.”

A while back, I picked up the Battletech $20 starter box. It had two unpainted plastic mechs, a game board, cardboard to indicate terrain elevation, 8 cardboard punch-out mechs, rules, dice, and a short story. There is no reason GW can't do something similar at $60-80.

I kinda wish they had like a buildabear style duo boxes were you can select which two factions face off, comes with rule books and codex...also if it was like 200$ for a basic hq 3 troops and a vehicle/monster per faction transfers sheets, 2 full modled kits with some punch out cardboard terrain.

Including a single paintable (but not necessarily one that needs to be painted) model in each box could provide incentive to get into the hobbying side of things while keeping everything easily playable and accessible

As a hobbyist (currently painting a mini while listening to this) I don’t have anything against this idea. As long as it doesn’t affect the production of minis, this starter box would literally only be a good thing, bringing more people into the community

As someone who just got started into the hobby ( about to finish my first 10 space marines and excited to get started on my ork army) , this all sounds like a great idea. The price of starting is kinda crazy for most people. We really be poor out here.

This feels like reinventing the wheel to me to some extent. 2nd 40k got you a box with a fuckton of very quick to assemble actual minis, that you didn't need glue or clippers for, could paint if you wanted but didn't have to, and even had a ork dread cardboard standee, cardboard terrain, and every rule you needed for 40 quid, even doubling the price given it's no longer the 90s that'd still be a relatively reasonable 80 quid in today's money.

Sitting here as a primarily Kill Team player just chanting "Kill Team! Kill Team! Kill Team!".

At the "No assembly required" part of the video right now - I think it would be alright to have some simple push fits to assemble rather than a pre-molded single piece, but the main thing is that you need nippers for the current push fit sprues. If you buy the Pokemon plastic models (plamo) from Bandai (or similar Entry-Grade plamo kits), they have sprues you can just push the piece off of instead - they leave a smidge of flash, but it's mostly not too noticeable and easily smoothed over later. They even have multi-coloured plastic sprues that can be used to put together different colour bits. I think GW /could/ manufacture these, or even just pay Bandai to let them do it. It's a bit more complex than the 2d images in clear acrylic, but if you can make them fairly simple (stickers for some of the armour details and pauldron emblems, push the blue pauldron into a gold outer rim piece, etc) you could make some "simple colour" setups that still gives the "model on a sprue" experience for progression into the bigger/more complex plastic kits. It sacrifices a bit of budget economy as well, but it exchanges it for feeling closer to the experience of the full models. I think it'd be my ideal point for accessibility, but I can see how GW wouldn't want to go that way because of the investment in new mould technology, sprues/models, etc. compared to your much easier "crop an image, print on clear plastic, go" solution.

pls do a new combat patrol for every faction

The visual editing in this episode is AMAZING in both density and illustrative value. 10/10. Fantastic

You mostly described the 40k second edition box set. I mean they were plastic models. But it was mono pose. 40 gretchin, 20 Geoff's and a paper cut out dread Vs 20 space marines. With cardboard terrain. I think it was £50 UK... But that was 30 years ago. So I guess it would be like £100 now

Black Reach, Skull Pass and Blood Island are the Golden standard when it comes to GW starter sets

Your idea #2 would be best benefited by including some "real" pieces. For example, the bases could be some mockup of a custom base (with rock terrain or molded grass), or include 2 pieces of official terrain. This way the box has long term value and evokes the sunk cost fallacy while still being something stand alone.

This video is genius level marketing. 40k and AOS on Walmart shelves does matter for exposure and this would allow for easier introduction to say my 10yo daughter, because I would so buy her the Sisters of Battle box to bounce off my models. Bear in mind she's also the one who painted all the Necrons in the Recruit Box and her and her 6yo sister will likely be the ones to paint the Necrons in the Elite Box I bought. I have the magnet tiles, a rather large collection, of my daughters. They are highly versatile and durable. They've built 4.5 ft tall towers that hold up really well...till the dog plows through it.

When I first started I actually thought about making my own 2D paper proxies pretty much exactly like this. When you actually read the rules you realize that the vast majority of them involve measuring to bases with only a few tidbits mentioning the models themselves. So technically you could play boarding actions with nothing but 2D disks that are the correct base size, like checkers, with pictures printed on them.

As you were describing the requirements of the box I realized just how amazing the Battletech Game of Armored Combat box is. It's literally everything you mentioned, except enough for TWO players, all preassembled models, with terrain, for only $60. Madness

Honestly, 40k acrylic "pawns" (which is what I believe Pathfinder calls them) sound like exactly what I want as official releases. As someone who doesn't really have the patience to put many, many small army men together, that would be an easy way to get me back into the game at this point. There's a reason I like the Battletech standees so much. It really wouldn't be that difficult for them to churn out. The main problem, however, is that the "pawns" would likely cut into model sales, so they would have to limit what people can do with them in tournaments and such. I think limiting them to boarding party level/infantry only would probably be a good idea... Though I'd really like to use them in Kill Team. It's not a bad idea, however, and I would probably be one of the first in line to buy that product.

I really like the acrylic slot idea for that initial starter set. It could also be awesome for proxies so that people can test models without breaking the bank or testing armies to see if they mesh with the play style of the army.

You know you guys basically described 2nd Edition box set, right?

....this is literally one of the BEST ideas I've ever heard for game-play. Horrible for modelling...but...damn...amazing as intended as an entry.

for the terrain, GW used to have little plasticard terrain in the boxes with their models that you folded and slit into each other to make simple buildings based off those old cars and boat figures you bought punched out and then created a "3-d" effect little car or boat or whatever

I genuinely love this idea and from so many standpoints this would be huge for GW to allow for a hook to get new players into it. There's so many things this can even branch out to or boost GW's stance on.

Honestly, that bit about the "pre-grimdark'd" magnetic tile terrain, with either molded plastic surfaces or a sticker depicting a spaceship interior, is a really good idea. A third party manufacturer should just make that. Loads of people currently purchase MDF or card stock terrain. I know plenty would purchase such a product, if it was on the market. Heck, you could subcontract with the people who make those kid's toys, and tell them, "I need loads of these tiles, but can you make them opaque and neutral colored?" And then slap stickers on them yourself.

I mean i can tell you right now what the solution is for people who don’t want to/can’t pay a shit ton. We cut out paper in the shape of the bases, and use these little wooden blocks we have to make terrain. That’s what my brother and I do. And it wouldn’t be insane for us to move to something like this if it was available.

Your knees his back.. what are you two up to on the other side of that camera 😂

Super good work. I only just found this video, but "revisiting" it after the release of Leviathan and the 10th edition starter boxes brings some interesting perspective. The first thing is that the lowest-level, "$65" 10th-edition box, and only that one!, now comes with five paints, a starter brush, and clippers. I don't know if those clippers are the super-duper "super fine detail cutters" GW sells for USD 50, but either way, factoring in the paints being $4.50 apiece at their lowest (and one of them is a metallic paint to boot) and the brush being about $12, that's still at least $30 worth of supplies, along with two small armies, a ruler, and some dice, all for roughly what you'd pay for a single box of most units. My Age of Sigmar starter set, at $50, in technical terms had a lower cost of entry but also didn't come with paint (I bought the Paints + Tools kit alongside it, which I still make heavy use of, particularly the included mould-line remover). More notably, the middle-tier and high-tier 10th-edition boxes also do not come with these paints or tools, which to me just makes them feel like they're just "versus-boxes" being marketed as starter kits despite also having varying tiers of "how much instructions are included." One minor thing I don't like about the $210 'Ultimate Starter Set' is that the color palette on the box art does the Ubisoft thing where it looks like a washed-out version of the tier below it, where, if anything, it should look even more vibrant if you're going to be spending so much extra on it. And at that point, I'd just pay a little more and get a still-easy-to-find Leviathan box. To me, the sheer existence of a $65 "two plastic armies + ruler + dice + clippers + paint" tells me that either GW is selling an incredibly generous loss leader to get people into buying $60 army units, or this stuff isn't nearly as expensive to produce and distribute as they want us to think it is. That said, I would not have minded if they did the Aeronautica Imperialis thing and had multiple 'flavors' of starter sets (Imperial Navy vs. Tau), with tiny armies but with different factions involved that aren't just Space Marines Versus Tie-In Novel Antagonist (e.g., Imperial Navy versus Tau or Eldar). So it'd be something of a bridge between the current One Variant Of Starter Set With Three Tiers And A Super Launch Box, and the various 2-player versus boxes that get released periodically. Various card games like Magic and Pokémon, back when it was a Wizards of the Coast game, mastered how to market this years ago: Level 1: Learn-to-Play set (Warhammer version: Starter box) Level 2: Theme deck (Combat Patrol, Boarding Patrol, arguably those 2-player versus boxes and the enormous Christmas single-army boxes ... I really hope the one for the Imperial Knights gets brought back this year since I'm in a better position to buy it now) Level 3: Booster packs (single boxes of models). Basically I'd love to see a simplified version of Eldritch Omens, Shadow Throne, or Piety & Pain, turned into an alternate flavor of starter set.

I like the idea. Especially modular terrain in box. I don't see GW doing the printed 2d standees, but I can see them doing colored push-fit mono-pose infantry models at 500 points. Ultramarines, Black Legion, Orks, and Mechanicus kits with blue, black, green, and red colored plastic respectively.

Battle for Vedros. This was, and still is my favorite way to play an afternoon of 40K. Captain, 6 man Tactical Squad, Dreadnaught, and a Terminator vs a Warboss, Deffkoptor, 5 Nobz, and a dozen Ork Boyz. Expansions were 3 man Combat Squads, Bike, and Attack Bike vs 4 Boyz Mob, Grotz box and Wartrakk.

I think the models are such an essential part of the hobby that removing them would make an intro box fail. Instead have the push fit system that starter sets but with different colored sprues for different body parts. Have a blue sprue for the marine body, a red sprue for the sergeant helmet and a grey or metal colored one for the gun. This way people can still paint them up if they want to.

The terrain discussion reminds me of Dropzone Commander - where the starter set included an entire pop up cardboard cityscape. The Pathfinder starter set also inlcudes around 50 pop up cardboard characters like they were discussing in the video.

Ideas bringing us closer to the first hit is free, for or plastic crack of a hobby.

Why not just play kill team? It's honestly an amazing game by itself

This is a really fun thought experiment. As someone who was always drawn in by the hobby, I wish GW made a starter set that just included all the tools and paints and one 500 pt team. I’d have gotten in much earlier, and been able to get some friends in as well. The sheer number of items to buy separately I think is a major deterrent-people love boxes and kits.

It's not a bad idea, particularly the boarding action tiles idea. GW have tried a cheap entry modes a couple of times before, Kill Team being one of the more recent successful ones but as you say not everything is there. To combat the artist complaints and introduce the idea of painting your own models (for the lucrative paint sales) perhaps you could add a single full model to your game box that is like a sergeant or something to be used if desired. Space Hulk, Talisman and its 40K variant Relic all used to serve as entry points but built up too much as their own games and bulked out more and more. The other games like Heroquest, Blood bowl, Necromunda, Mordhiem and Gothic were all more their own games anyway but have all acted as entry points. One last thing if you are going to have cheap dice make one of them awkwardly wonky so its weighted to roll a 2 or something to draw people into buying the more expensive dice too.

I am less than 90 seconds into this video and this, this is the one I've been looking for forever. 40K seems so exclusionary and expensive between the cost in terms of money and time to get an army on the table as well as the sheer number of locations rules are stored in - I don't play, and I think you need something like 4 or 5 rulebooks to actually get started? This is the conversation I want more than anything.

This is a lovely idea IMO, I have actually considered making a standee army several times, just for the speed and the convenience of getting one up and ready. As I've understood GW's business, this is not something they would ever do. As it would compete with their other models, this is the same reason why hugely popular games like Mordheim or Epic haven't made a comeback either, it is just the same customers buying a different, less profitable thing from them. They haven't gone after new business for a long time as I've understood it, they have and still are solely focused on squeezing more money out of the customers they do have.

I love this idea, also I wouldn’t mind seeing a video about competitive issues

Well, I'm not necessarily 'new' to the hobby (tried to start off a Warhammer Fantasy army about 10 years ago with Lizardmen - while core stuff was painted, most is still in boxes and never got a chance to play), I recently motivated myself to get into the hobby again. This time though with 40k due to the many Pen&Paper games in which we covered it as a setting. And I mainly do it via Kill Team. Not sure if I'm doing it right, but thus far I'm building up 5 Custodes. Got myself the Kompendium and rulebook, some necessary tools and even got myself 5 Sisters of Silence on the shelf for reward, when I manage to at least put together and paint up those 5 beasts. With the Custodes alone I would already have an entire Killteam, but I wanted to have the Sisters as well in order to get some variation + I prefer the mixed combo's playstyle more. Tabletop Simulator and having a few fun games in it also helped in further proving to me, that this is definitly the best starting faction for me. ^^ Now, should I actually be able to finish these 10 models, the next plan will be to get myself a second Killteam, either to get a buddy into the whole hobby for some nice boardgame time at a Sunday or to just have some options. And I'm quite certain that it will be Tyranids, my alltime favorite. Question that remains though is though whether I will just buy the current Combat Patrolbox because it has all the models I need for a Killteam and more or just buy the two boxes I need for the more logical choice. But then again... it would be nice to actually have some Tyranids around. And to give myself an excuse to maybe also buy myself some Raveners despite Raveners being not a thing anymore on Killteam. Huh... I wonder. Maybe Killteam really is a good excuse for luring people into the full 40k expierience, because the small range of models required to actually set up a game might still be worth it. Even if it is in terms of cost certainly neither cheaper.

IDK if I could ever see the 2D acrylic models being legal, but I love the terrain idea. I could even see large scale fully magnetic terrain for 40k in a way that we could have standardized set pieces for competitive play.

I started my WH40k journey with the Indomnitus Box, havnt looked back.

There should be a starter box with 2 easy to build squads that could be used in 40k AND Kill Team. With basic rules for both, kill team already offers their lite rules free for download

This whole conversation is why I've mostly moved over to Battletech. $15-20/model may seem a bit pricy, but when you realize you only need 4-6 models to play your game, third-party models are encouraged, and the base rule set (that comes with a full 4-6 models, designed for 2 players, plus several cardboard stand-ins, and all models are fully assembled) sits around $40-60, depending on which specific kit you're getting.

Okay, you can use boarding actions terrain in big 40k, GW just didn't advertise how to. The terrain when you place the caps on the pillars sits perfectly flat, and thanks to the square modules can be stacked easily (reaching 5" approximately). Thanks to this you can make about 4 reasonably sized FLG-standard ish buildings, meaning you are about 2/3 the way to a full table.

Another thing that would be great is like pop-up paper and cardboard terrain. That way, you get the most terrain for the least amount of money. also, I see people saying kill team, and I have to respectfully disagree, kill team is really neat but it plays nothing like 40k, not to mention that kill team is so much smaller than a 500 point warhammer game. 40k needs its own small form game, and I think boarding actions, or at least something like it is the perfect format for introductory games that players can transition from.

This is actually an amazing idea. I was trying to get some friends into the game and when we got to the store to look at boxes they're excitement was immediately taken away dud to the price of everything.

On the cut-out idea, I remember when Fantasy and 40k starter sets had cardboard figures on stands. Isn’t something GW never did before.

hell of an idea. My biggest problem is learning to play. like ill build models but there needs to be a streamline to getting on the table and learning the rules and if you and your friend can both walk in, pick your 2d army of choice and just start playing on the LGS tables after purchase, thats the ticket to more sales of real plastic down the line. My only addition would be a 1 sheet reference of a player's turn (maybe also have a quick reference card of Roll to wound), like what MTG includes in their deck packs. so that you arent flipping back and forth in the rule book.

I would adore if GW did something like this, particularly because I've seen so many people get hyped as hell for the lore and the aesthetics and the art. Then you see them sit down for their first few games and watch as the light gradually abandons their eyes as they realize they actually just don't enjoy the game. Giving players room to realize that the game isn't for them is just as important as attracting players who will (but that doesn't make money).

I think you've highlighted the diversity of 40k as a hobby. Some want to play a game some want to sculpt and paint.

Daaaamn, best of 3 match! Instead of side-decks, players could have "strategic reinforcements" that they could use to swap out units between rounds. That'd encourage people to get some of those units just for versatility/competition, even if they never boarded them in.

I don’t know if this came out in time for the 10th edition announcement, but they did announce to be making a “Combat patrol” mode where the combat patrols are balanced together and can be used in CP-tier games. I’m pretty excited to see how that goes!

I'd buy this. I played a lot of warhammer fantasy and the 9th age many years ago, and I've been hesitant to get into the hobby again, both due to the cost and frankly because I don't know if I'd want to invest the time into building and painting an army. Maybe I get fully caught up in it (probably to be honest), but maybe I just try it out and call it a day five or ten games in - and with that viewpoint, a somwhat affordable, out of the box game would be great!

For 80$ is expect more that a bunch of plastic covered paper maybe a squad of unpainted minis

As someone almost 100% on the hobby side and who never plays competitive, if GW went that route with I would be completely ok with. It's not like you'll ever see me in a tournament anyway, so more power to you. In fact, in the 90's GW issued a couple of starter boxes which included cardboard cutouts on a slot-bases for characters and warmachines (the Ork Dreadnought in 40K 2nd Ed and Eltharion/Grom the Paunch in WFB 5th) who - theoretically - are still tournament legal. So it's not like it would be the first time they did something like this.

Another thought: two halves of the Leviathan set of the space marines? Surely there's someone that wants Tyranids? Then you get about 1000-1500pts worth of space marines if you buy one over-priced primarch? But you also get 6-7 fairly bad armies for the price of one, can probably kitbash a few marines into other stuff, and ask someone that already plays the game for a free (or $20) rhino or two? Maybe that could work? So, like, a $250 entry point, and some friends/ bribes...

So this is pretty similar to a thing in historical wargaming, the peter's paper boys line of books. It's basically a book with some background info, maybe a ruleset, and then a bunch of pages meant to be photocopied where you get a bunch of paper soldiers to print out and cut out. They even include a few pages of terrain. I never used them myself but they look great when ranked up and getting a paper army is significantly cheaper and faster than doing a full army of miniatures

The bording actions terrain is just under 150euros here in europe, but buy a few of the newest two kill team boxes and youll get the terrain for "free". But its a pretty nice modular terrain in that Bording actions box. My brother did buy it for us and i painted it

i actually think if they set it up like the bandai kits in the space marine heroes or space marine adventure lines you could do full on starter army boxes for less then 60, they are incredibly easy and quick to build, they have colored plastic, they are push fit, i think that or something along the lines of the old space crusade style solid pieces would fix alot of starter issues, space crusade had modular pieces while having no need for tools and supported several factions in the box, you got three flavors of space marines, one flavor of chaos space marines, orks and goblins, and the proto chaos admech/men of iron, with expansions for playable player side orks and eldar, really its the best option, there is only one model with more then two pieces and over half are one solid piece, something of that caliber would solve the entry for non-hobbyists very easily

As someone that only paints and doesn't play (because it's too expensive and complicated) having a simplified set like this that gave you everything you needed to just pick up and play would probably be the only thing that would make me start playing. I literally do not want to have to sit there and figure out what gun to give to who and what models to take, having a relatively inexpensive army in a box that is balanced with simple-ish rules is a great idea imo.

As someone who is really into blood bowl, they have already done stuff before with unpainted minis being on the box, it happened in 2016. Because of the elitism issue, I think that doing pre assembled unpainted MODELS and just putting that on the box would be a better solution. It would also keep GWs “we are a model company” thing in mind and make it easier for them to swallow

I was actually considering buying some bases and printing out some pics to play the game with a friend recently after looking at the prices. Its a hard no on the models for me and has been for a long long time. I was thinking about building a cardboard rhino. Very doable in my opinion. EDIT I even felt the collecting bug a little bit as I was imagining getting decent pics for all the wargear options for units and characters.

I loved the prebuilt models of Guild Ball

Acrylic standees is the term you're looking for. I was just having a conversation on the OnePageRules page a couple weeks ago, they there is likely a market for someone to take the 2d miniature artwork they supply (or something similar) and make it into acrylic standees at a lower cost than miniatures and no painting required.

Devastated the editor didn't slap in a photo of the 2nd edition starter deff dread, a fully table legal piece of cardboard on a stand

I like the idea of using 2d models in slotted bases. At the same time, "A Song Of Ice And Fire" provides fully assembled miniatures for a starter army right out of the box (with 2d terrain) for $80. Idk what CMON's process is compared to GW, but I think it could be possible to design a 40k game with fully assembled infantry in a battlefield with 2d terrain. It would be a different game mode, not 40k, not Kill Team, not Combat Patrol, not Boarding Action, but it's own game with the potential for competitive play. And GW is kind of on the edge of this experience with the Fire Team and Space Marine Adventures board games; push fit miniatures with no glue required and 2d battlefields/dungeons.

Any of these ideas would have been amazing back when I was just getting into the hobby

The main problem I see with this is that while only some units would get 2d intro models, the 3d versions of those models would effectively get replaced for new players. 2d intro Necron Warriors are great for getting people into Necrons, but will basically mean that we'll never see real Necron Warriors on most tables again. So the cheaper "inferior" version will replace the full model, or people won't get them at all because they feel like they're being ripped off and sold the cheap version of the "real" thing.

On the point of potentially losing some batrep content (or getting less pretty versions) all of these models would be represented in the full game, so big studios like MWG or WintersSEO would have the models that are being 2d'ed. Great episode and great idea!

The more people you can get into the game the better. That influx of players would be amazing. I love the look of 2D minis. I have thousands of DnD minis that I have used once. I would love to switch to flat minis at some point

I think the idea of the acrylic standee game is not really feasible for a couple reasons. Like it or not, building and painting models is an intrinsic part of the hobby and this product does nothing to break the ice in that regard. Sure it could be argued that what it's doing is teaching the rules first but to me this sounds more like a board game than an introduction to the larger war game. Part of the appeal of those intro or start collecting boxes is that you can build your collection from them, I sincerely doubt that people are going to want to include acrylic standees with the rest of their models, should they decide to continue the hobby, so with this product they basically wasted $80 to learn the rules and that's it.

2 of my local game stores bought 4 of those boxes for store use and has the extra books out for display for anyone to use Even my local GW store That's 2 tables committed just To get people in for fast games.

Would be amazing, especially for younger players.

If you put metal bits on a grid embedded in the cardboard then you could have the tiles snap to spots to help stay upright.

Having just got into magic commander from Warhammer I think this is an amazing idea

Should probably go the Gundam route. Release lines of very simple models that uses various colors of plastics that all just snap together to make the soldiers. You'd keep the modularity and have colourful models at the same time. But those kits would need to be sold at a loss in order to be at a price point people will want. From there the older models can be sold as a more boutique option or advanced level kits. But a lot of that will be expensive as it'd require gw to remodel and manufacture a lot basic infantry for all the factions

My thing is that I've never actually played the game. I have models but the game scene around where I live is non existent 😢 This was a great video/podcast to see the thoughts on how to make WH easier to get into! Fun listen.

The 2d acrylic models is so genius

I like boarding actions as a fun quick game mode. Horus heresy also has zone mortalis which expands it to have dreads!

I think the "Easy to Build" Stuff fulfills some of your wishes for the models in this dream-box. They dont need glue and ppl learn a bit about building the models.

I have to say a "starter box" should be a "vertical slice" of the hobby and for me real 3D miniatures belong to the hobby. So instead of going the "2D" route I would go more into the old "Star Quest/Space Crusade" direction. Click-fit models, small teams, slim down rules, paper terrain. You could even have a "deluxe version" which has some simple clippers, a brush and some basic colors (like the easy build modelkits) Then add some "advanced boxes" which allows you to use your starter box and expand it into a bigger game.

For 80 bucks I’d expect something better than 2d portraits for models unless it comes with quite the selection

"Barrier to entry is too high" ya thats what prevented me from buying in. I ended up getting a resin printer and now have an entire skaven army from free stls online and most of the orks current line....still have no idea how to play need to play a few matches with someone who knows but its nice learning bits from yall. It would be nice if yall would make a battle report learn to play episode

i like to draw the comparison here to aos, warcry & esp. underworlds. sure, in 40k we have killteam (but GW seems to have given up on it, looking at season 3 & the gap between seasons 2 & 3), but in aos you have underworlds, where you can get the starterset, a boardgame for 30€ at your bookstore etc, which comes with 2 sets of unique minis (the current starterset reuses old minis; 3 stormcast & 7 skeletons) which are pushfit & come in different colored plastic & so do each expansions. the big competitive sets release twice a year for 80€ msrp & if a friend already has the boards, you could pick up your own legal warband for 30€. & underworlds warbands are all different characters & probalby the prettiest models GW makes. a warcry/killteam warband for a single player is 40-50€ & brings customisation etc & all basic rules in the box. those 3 systems have all rules for free on GWs website tho. & (almost) all UW minis are legal in warcry & aos, all warcry units are legal in aos & all small aos units are legal in warcry. it's such an easy entry point & how i got many friends into the hobby.

You guys hit the nail on the head. Im a engineering student who recently bought himself the cadia stands set. Its been about 2 months. I still havent played with them., Heck. I've finished a squad, the sentinel and almost the command squad. I just dont have time. I enjoy the model building a lot, but being able to quickly setup a quick board game against a friend would make me way more invested in w40k. Right now. theres no reason for me to buy ANYTHING , as im not even finished building all the models yet....

Listening to this reminds me that there is both MTG arena(which makes it so we can play on the relatively cheap) and that GW is a model company/paint company first

I just started this hobby and personally I would hate the flat acrylic keychains instead of models. What made me want to get in the hobby was the models and the fact I could play a game with them. Personally I think it would be better if they took a page out of Bandai’s book with the Pokémon or gundam models. Injection molded color plastic for specific bits and some stickers for more detailed stuff. Have them easy to push out with your fingers and snap fit. Sure it won’t be as intricate as the painted models but it would feel better than just a pure blue or pure gray guy

I mean, they could work with Bandai and make a color separated set of push-fits for each army as well as license lines of vehicles for them to do as well...they could make a killing, offer slightly less detailed models for cheaper, and get far more people into the hobby...plus who doesn't want to see what Bandai can do with Crisis suits and Titans eventually. There is no way they are getting a detailed, color model line to market using their processes for less than twice the cost of their current lines.

Games workshop has stated many times they are not a games company. They are a minatures company. It said so in our employee handbook. Like it's in the name.... I actually saw this once. A kid playing tyranids in 4th edition. Took paper cut outs of the models and taped them to bases. And no one had issues. Except the boss's.

GW really need to listen to this stuff. I spent $220 thru online retailers with discounts to get exactly 1000 points of Kharadron for Age of Sigmar. I was willing to do that cause it was tax time when I did it, but whoooo boy I could not normally spend that much to get into a game. And as far as the hobby aspect: I enjoy building the models actually but I HATE PAINTING so very very much. Its why I also do Gunpla. That lets me build but avoids having to paint, colored plastic yo. I would be fine with cool 2D standees that have sweet art and could play a game that way, sure you might miss out on vehicles unless you figure out a cool way to do that but I think it would be fun.

I got the leviathan box, a secondhand army and now I'm straight 3D printing everything. I've paid my dues to GW and cannot stomach any more... I recently printed a Riptide battlesuit for $4-5 vs the GW $115...

I absolutely love the idea you settled on, and really think that’s what GW should do.

Flames of War do great starter boxes. Versus, include rules, full models of good variety, 60 bucks. Of course literally any unit bought on its own is minimum 30 after....

Honestly I don't even play Warhammer. I just like listening to you guys talk for 30 minutes to an hour on a topic. But if I was going to play it, that seems like something I would want.

I'd rather see single piece models that come off the sprue like the old second edition (?) marines. Box comes with grey or black primer to fill in the armour joints, and maybe the armies are blue and red plastic. I think the biggest draw for me when I was starting was the "those models are cool I want them!" factor

oh my god, i just listened to the website version like 3 hours ago and now there is the YT with visuals on one hand, great i can see visuals, but also, i dont want to relisten to it already great episode tho, really something GW should look into

The proper GW way would be to have 2d acrylic, but just *one* proper mini; a HQ that can only be bought in that box 🙂