I own nothing. Just sharing an awesome moment from an awesome show. (sorry about the quality and/or choppiness. this is the best i could do right now).
@@MrStandbyer I never understood the people who don't like "forever dm" I find it very fun to be able to play so many unique characters in different campaigns instead of being tied down to one, and you can do pretty much whatever you want as long as it doesn't ruin the experience for others
@@hawkthetraveler6344 orion became/was a problem player. Main character syndrome, he would metagame a lot, he was notorious abt fudging rolls. He also made jokes and comments that made everyone, especially the ladies at the table, uncomfortable. He cracked one really inappropriate joke at Laura and Travis looked like he was going to kill him. He had issues, and while i hate to hear that he didnt handle them well, and they had to remove him from the table.
+GoneRampant Well...you could see Travis was pissed in Orion's final episode. That these are professional voice actors in a small industry, so they handled their disputes/separation as well as possible, but a little bit of looting is an understandable bit of "next!" for Travis. For the Tiberius Fans, they are letting Orion make his own "Draconian Knights" series. Interesting copyright question, who owns a D&D character.
+Pandaemoni you might want to watch chalk talk if you havent already. He explained that it wasnt really a dispute nor was there a fight but it was more for a career decision. Was he lying and trying to cover things up who knows? but id rather trust the man's own words instead of assuming things and having my own theories.
+IOGNIT To each his own. I am not trying to dredge up someone else's old drama. Generally, I credit a person's words unless I see extra details that lead me away from that default position to that truism of human existence, "Everyone lies sometimes." Here I have reason to be led away from the default position, but no vested interest in making anyone agree with my interpretation. Whomsoever may be correct, it remains old news of the people involved.
Aindriú Mac an Bhreithiún liam and Orion were really really good friends it seems. And they always did stuff the same, as much as orion metagamed so has everyone else except travis and Sam.
@@unclevivid9028 The metagaming wasn't really a big deal besides three or four extreme cases. The major problem was that he cheated, a lot. He fudged dice rolls, spell slots and sorcerers points. In the last few episodes if you watch the cast it looks like they assigned someone to check all his dice rolls. In regards to the metagaming thing though the problem isn't that he did it. It's why he did it. Everyone at the table and basically anyone who plays D&D meta games from time to time. The problem is that Orion metagamed to give his character the advantage and promote himself as the hero. For instance, Vax finds out that Sylas Brairwood is a vampire. Tiberius who is not privy to this immediately prepares water, a weakness of vampires. This is done for one reason only. Orion wants to be the one to be able to kill the boss. Compare that to an instance when Taliesin meta games. Nott decides to go through Fjord's pack and rob him. Molly who was not declared to be in the room is suddenly there and seems to know exactly what Nott is looking for as he fakes her out with a blank note. This is technically meta gaming but in this case it isn't for personal gain. Taliesin is creating an amusing and interesting roleplaying situation for Sam, and Travis, not just himself as he leaves the conversation shortly after with a "Nott is stealing your stuff Fjord". The forgivability of metagaming lies in why they do it. If it is to make the game more fun for all or several players it's great. If it is to glorify yourself, not so much.
@@BadWolf739 Your example couldn't be more wrong. Laura saw Sylas' fangs. Her very next turn she said, roughly, "We know he's a vampire since I saw his fangs, I do X" (I think it was, use a Holy Arrow). When Percy was interrogating the coach driver he talked about Sylas being a vampire. Other people talked about them being vampires as well. They go to the temple, where Tiberius gets the endless water container blessed, expressly to cure Liam. Fun fact: Liam acted deathly ill the whole way to the temple, whereupon the priest says something to the effect of, "there's nothing wrong with you" (vampirism not being easily transmissible in Matt's game).
@@ChrisJones-xd1re That all happened after. I'm talking about before the encounter. The only information that Tiberious had about the situation was Vax shouting "JENGA!" into the earpieces. As the group is running to find Vax Orion says "I prepare my canteen of water." Because he knows vampires are weak to it. But his character doesn't know they're fighting vampires. Everyone else's actions made against the undead come after the battle has begun and they've gotten a look at what they're facing. Orion's action is preemptive. Besides, it's not like that is the only example of his metagaming and even the metagaming besides he cheated to high heaven. When they were chasing the Rakshasa during the Slayer's Take arc he stopped mid chase and essentially said "I want to rest because I'm out of sorcerer points and spell slots so won't be much good in the fight." Everyone overruled him because giving the Rakshasa an eight hour lead was a terrible idea. In that fight which he claimed he had no spell slots and no sorcerer points for he was popping out meta magic and spells like candy.
@@BadWolf739 "I go to my decanter of water, and I start doing it like that, and then I do Fireball" Last I heard, water is good at putting out fires, like say, accidental fires you caused inside your friend's houses. Rakshasa: You really need to try using single 'quotes' instead of double "quotes" when you are paraphrasing someone rather than quoting them. Orion does not say the thing you wrote. He says, and I quote, with my , "I have only a amount of spells left to be effective in a fight against a creature like this. I have no melee offensive whatsoever, so that's going to be left up to you with magical weapons and whatnot, I'm assuming. I'm tapped out of all my spells. So is the Cleric, as well." The Cleric is all out of level 4 spells and can't use Locate Creature. Marisha has to do it. The counterargument to resting is as you have said, except they were considerably more polite. So they can use a rest, but don't have to. As Will Friedle said, "It's time or its strength. We go in fully charged. Or we go in now and have a much better chance of catching up to it, but weakened." Tiberius isn't super happy about the decision to go on, but relents. Mercer is of course using homebrew rules, but the normal for an 11th Sorcerer is 11 SP and 12 spells. After asking for a rest, Tiberius casts only X + 4 spells (X being the number of Fly spells he casts on "everyone" before the anti-magic field stops him from casting altogether, which is never clarified), and exclusively low level spells, other than the final Counterspell (at 6th) that is so crucial to ending the chase: Fly (3rd), Slow (2nd), Silence (2nd), and Obelisk of Stone (3rd). Sorcerer Points can be converted into spell slots and vice versa. The clincher, of course, would be to count up the spells used in the first half, but since they only fought the tentacle creature and the Ghosts, I can't see it being even as much as the seven spells left over, let alone spells that can be converted from SP. For example: An 11th Sorcerer can get ten SP just from his 5th level spells, and four from his 1st level spells, and I am pretty sure Orion used no 1st or 5th level spells. That 14 SP accounts for the two 2nd level and two 3rd level spells he cast, all on its own. I am not going to do any more math, but I don't think you are going to be able to prove that he uses so many that the mutable nature of SP and spells cannot account for it.
100% this version of Tibs would have actually been fun to watch. I remember watching that segment and thinking I've never felt more interested in Tibs as a character than that moment
Tiberius was a garbage character that sexually harrassed both keyleth and alura and many other female character. Tibs was a self insert of the shitty human that created him
3:25. I've come to understand this as Tiberius becoming more than what his player intended from him. The character stepping out of the creator's dark shadow. And it gives me all the more relief after having gone through episodes 26-27. This is who Tiberius is.
Orion had problems and he definitely came off as a weird asshole during the recordings, but he did play with them for a few years before. And we tend to forget about it. It's obvious they have all cared for him and liked him enough to keep playing with him for so long. It really makes me sad that it ended like this.
I agree. In the early episodes, particularly the early twenties, he could be very annoying, but there were also moments when he was fun and likeable and you could see why he'd been part of the gang.
It’s hard to tell if it was the drug addiction or the cancer. Whatever the case, Orion torched that bridge and he’ll be lucky to find any work in voice acting ever again since Sam and Liam are both Voice Directors for a lot of stuff.
Got a lot of respect for this being handled so maturely. I've had problem players before who've had to leave the game and often their characters just go poof or do the Simpsons "I have to go now, my planet needs me."
looking at how Travis stepped up in the group as CEO (I think) I am pretty sure he and matt knew what was going it, but that fact that the group as a whole had an entire arc since they last saw tiberius, I think for Travis it was a "oh shit, its happening now" even though (I am assuming) Travis knew with Matt that Orion was never coming back.
Watching this i can't help but notice a thing people forget, is the players were playing this for two years before they started streaming it. Add in orions problems and well.... They've been at it for a while.
My response to that is... "DING DONG, THE CRINGE WITCH ORION AND HIS CHARACTER ARE DEAD! CALL FOR CELEBRATIONS!" Seriously, as a fan of the show, he was severely dragging them back and making things slow, cringe, and just not fun. With him gone, I can enjoy the show a lot more, which is the most important thing :)
@@beafbuger I am the most important thing in the world to me, yes :) So it gives me so much joy when something I disliked (Orion) got removed from the show. I feel like the universe acknowledged my desire ^.^
I feel like Matt played a better Tiberius in 5 minutes than its original player did in 5 months. I would love if the original character was played exactly like this. An elder brotherly, professor like, dragonborn sorcerer.
Yeah. Orion tried to play Tiberius as a gary stu. He had all the personalities and all the abilities and all the motives and all the... well, all. He tried to be serious but funny, dumb but smart, warm but fierce. Orion always tried to steal the spotlight. This here shows the players and characters liked them both as a person and a pc, but they were visibly frustrated by Orion as a dnd player
+ruinixgui Even though their relationship ended poorly, Liam brought him into the game initially at his b-day game, so he, of all people, needed closure.
Considering they are all following each other on Twitter I think they are all still friends. Anything that might have happened or any fallout that occurred looks like it smoothed over.
I forget where I found it, but it's out there. Apparently Orion set up a Kickstarter to help some people affected by the hurricanes in the South, but then used some of the donation money for himself. Another person he was in some kind of relationship with shared some really verbally abusive messages he left for her. Sounds like he's not (or at least wasn't) in a good place and not in control of himself, and it was starting to affect relationships on the show.
All hail and pay respects to Tiberius Stormwind. He hailed from Draconia, was part of a team called Vox'Machina, over in Greyskull Keep right in Emon. Anywhere, that's neither here nor there :'(
@@malcolm355 No, he was a good character. But there was a point where he stopped being a character and just became a vehicle for the player's weird ass desires regardless of who the character was.
@@LordVader1094 he was always a vehicle for his bad behavior. Tibs was also just a kind of shit concept of a character idk why people loved him so much
This was very well handled by Matt. I enjoyed Orion/Tiberious in the earlier episodes but towards the end, especially the last episode he was on, he became insufferable and painful to watch. I was not unhappy to see him go.
been a while since this happened and I just don't have enough time to look back and find the episode/scene in question, mind if I ask what he did as a reminder?
+IMVADER2 no one really knows but it seems like there was a slight falling out between people and ended up with Orion leaving. But you can tell there was an uneasy atmosphere in the last episode he was actually there for which may have been caused because of an argument or something similar. But again, no one really knows. Except the maybe some of the cast and some of the crew.
+IMVADER2, The episode in question is episode 27. Although no one's really sure of any personal off screen falling out his character became a nuisance. In this particular episodes Tiberius' interruptions, meta gaming and self focus are at there worst. The team goes shopping before they head to Whitestone and he shops for a solid 11 minutes, much to the obvious annoyance of the other players. I noticed that during this segment, the 'sub train' was derailed. . . His meta gaming was shown by the convenient realisation that he happened to have an army at his disposal in Draconia and he sent a letter to his dad to call them for aid. This was shut down by Matt. His character is befuddled but it became more and more of a problem as the series went on until he eventually left.
I know you typed this 9 months ago, but still. Obviously, they may not wanna publicly acknowledge if there was fallout, but they officially came out and said that Ashley AND Orion were leaving around the same time and Orion would have stayed, but didnt want to burden Matt with him having a coming in and out storyline like they do with Pike because Ashley is SOOO busy now. Of course, they could have said this to try to divert if there WAS fallout, but this seems a little more likely, because they ALL seem to be quite busy now, some more than others
I love the expression on everyone's face when the realization of what is happening and what is about to happen dawns on everyone. You could almost see the shock as they each started to process that Matt was actually doing this. He must have spoken to Orion about this and it really hits them all about the finality of this chapter after the years they spent around the table away from cameras. Laura and Ashley in particular look the most dumbstruck as he described Tiberius standing there. I miss Tibs; his moments of comedy were a nice dash of seasoning to the stew that is Vox Machina. I will always be a fan of this show and these people and I thank Matt and all the others that have been involved for pulling me into the show. I love every character they have met and the players are the sort I wish I could play with every time I sit at an RPG table. I am a Critter and will be long after this story comes to a close.
I also had thought if Matt had talked with Orion about this, but I think both of them have two separate and non-related campaigns, so possibly Matt just went ahead with it to wrap up loose ends
Exhausted Elox Everyone says that Orion cheated a lot, and that the cast was aware and that's why they got rid of him. I think they were just acting the part so they didn't make Orion look bad.
Exhausted Elox It was more than cheating though, the dude was clearly unhappy and it was making him unpleasant to watch. The episode before he left was a train wreck.
Samantha Langley - Right, but just because the show was overall better off without him, doesn't mean they don't like him or weren't attached to his character. They'd been playing for 2 years before Critical Role started up, so I'm sure they have many many fond memories of Orion/Tibs to go with the bad ones.
Orion released a video where he says CHemo Therapy for Cancer, mixed with alcohol and drugs and stress are a major part of why he behaved the way he did. There's a certain episode I cant recall the number, but you can see the moment he turned from sometimes annoying awkward geek, to fidgety, moody, tweaker. after that, he was always bipolar and you can see his appearance change.
For whatever reason I usually watch Laura during the campaign, whether it is because of the little things you miss that she giggles at if you're not paying attention or what not, but seeing her tear up like that really got me going. I didn't feel like this was a goodbye in the game. It just felt so real.
I ended up skipping the last few episodes before Orion left. It was a shame but it was a long time coming. Tiberius was my favorite character, but Orion wasn't in the headspace to play the character at that table
The only reason Tiberius hasn't come back to aid against the dragons is that he died when Draconia fell. It's the only way it would make sense in lieu of things.
Imagine in an alternate universe where Orion never left (and perhaps managed to better himself) where he too co-starred alongside his co-players in the Amazon adapted show of Vox Machina where he voice acts Tiberius and I would've loved to see that.
I feel like this wasn’t just a goodbye to tibs but kinda a un said goodbye to Orion, despite the problems they did want him to get help and care about him getting it and Liam’s words as vax speak volumes
I feel like people only see the worst parts of Orion, and therefore only see Tiberius as a bad self insert. But... he wasn't. The line in the last episodes got blurry for sure, but that was not the fault of Tiberius the character. Because that wasn't Tiberius. Orion was in a massive downward spiral and could not maintain his established character. That's why Tibs went from "math equations to explain why I could use an item" and ribbing Scanlan to "half chub". That was Orion the actor and player fighting for people to like him. They had played this campaign as a home game for quite a long time. Orion was in the original video where Matt brought Critical Role up to the table. They weren't Vox Machina, they were "The Shits." Hence Vax's final line. Do not excuse Orion's poor behavior. That's not fair to the people he hurt and it's not fair to him. But even the most staunch Tib hater has to admit that the one we see in this clip is more accurate to the original character than he was in his last 5 episodes.
I started watching critical role during the K'Varn fight. I never thought this fun little D&D show would make me emotional. And then this bloody episode happened. Liam's line "Your friendship was always valued" got me...and looking back I think it's the momentary pause you see him take to collect himself before speaking that did it. Definitely wasnt a dry eye on twitch/twitter/reddit, I can guarantee that.
My heart is sad. I loved Tiberius. And just learned some of the reasons why he quietly bowed out from CRole. My heart aches. Thank you Matt for portraying him.
I'll miss Orion on the show because the characters backstory was interesting and he was always positively amusing in his booksmart obliviousness, but to be honest (and in Pathfinder terms, since I stopped playing regular D&D long ago) Orion was always a little like you put a Pathfinder Society player into a regular Pathfinder group. Everyone else would be roleplaying their character while this one guy is just sitting there treating the whole thing like it's a singleplayer game where he is the one that needs to come up with the solution, his plan is the one that needs to be pursued and he is the one that has to look the most impressive at the end. It's playing the character vs. playing your character sheet and trying to make use of all the points you spent. Not saying those kinds of players have no place because there are actual scenarios where a group of powerplayers and lone wolves can be forced to work together - especially if the enemies are made especially tough - while they rarely fit into groups where everyone else cooperates and doesn't mind taking the back seat every once in a while.
@@lancejedrickmaniquiz7547 Sadly, he was caught cheating. Like a lot. He also made some critical errors in how you should treat others at the table also came into play.
@@lancejedrickmaniquiz7547 Back then Orion was going through a really rough time, battling cancer and such. And while it's not an excuse, it sadly affected and changed his personality, making him do some quite awful things. In Critical Role, he metagamed frequently, broke rules, lied about stats and dice rolls. The players and staff had to keep track of what Orion rolled and then the fandom quickly noticed he was cheating as well since the characters' stats were available to the public. He also abused his then girlfriend and committed fraud, stealing money from charity. I loved Tiberius as a character but I don't condone what Orion has done. Still, it makes me sad that an individual had to struggle so much in life that it made them cheat at a board game. All I can hope for is that he's in a better place now and have the help he needs to improve himself as a person.
He didn't "leave" ... He was an absolute piece of shit that had no place on CR. They rightfully kicked him out because he was cheating and swindling critters out of money. He used his medical condition as a plot to get cash. It's all on the record. This is not just make believe.
So weird becoming a fan and seeing all this drama that happened nearly a decade ago. Looking into it, from everything I see, this almost seems like Orion was always the guy that was extra. Like, theyre all best friends, and Orion is just someone they work with. As if he just barely got the invite to that first bday party session and never left. I dont say that to be mean, it just seems like he was always lowest on the totem, by default. He was supposed to be along for the ride and didnt realize his place was to sit back and get carried, instead he tried to make it the Orion Show.
Sad about Orion, what a falling-out. He had his awkward moments but he was a great character. Really brought a great element to the early Campaign 1 games, a great intro experience to D&D.
It really speaks to this groups integrity that they gave him a good goodbye and a good warrior's sendoff by describing him dying heroically defending his land and his people even though they were really upset with him. It greatly shows their integrity as human beings and their attitudes are what makes this group so great. Edit: punctuation and spelling
I've never watched others play DnD and this sh*t almost had me break down and cry. Man, these people are talented. I mean, I know a lot of their work but still... damn.
His name was Tiberius. He came from Draconia. He was a great sorceror. A well of wisdom and advise. And a loyal friend. There was never another Dragonborn who fought as fiercely or bravely, no matter how clumsy he was. We shall never see his like again. And now his Watch is ended...
The soundtrack from Pillars of Eternity fits perfectly as a background...i admit tearing up a bit, not only for the scene itself, but looking at Ashley, Laura, Liam & Taliesin' faces and Sam's reaction (+ imagining the characters in that situation) really gave away how much they were surprised by this.... at least it wasn't handled as a "taboo subject that we won't nominate" like acquisition did with Weathon and Kurtz once they left (i really love acquisition, but that always felt a bit weird to me)
The only introduction I've had to acquisition are the role they play on the MMO(?) Neverwinter. I don't have a ton of time on my hands nowadays, so I figure I may as well ask - is it worth looking up what they've done? I wasn't overly keen on their arc in the game, but I imagine if they're anything like CR then it's a missed experience.
@@unknownlongforgottenpaths Ehm...sorry for the 2 years of delay : P by now you probably figured out an answer for yourself. ACQ INQ is very different compared to critical role in my opinion...critical role is an entertaining show based on story and world building. Acquisition incorporated, meanwhile, is way more focused on the entertainement aspect in my opinion, with less of a focus on creative a constant narrative and a believable world. In other words: when i want to get immersed i watch Critical role - When i want to laugh, i watch Acquisition Incorporated
I never noticed it before but it looks like Matt is reading off of something while he speaks. I wonder if Orion left him something nice to say on Tiberius' behalf. I wouldn't think their split was all that amicable, but they actually did this goodbye as well as his death very respectfully, and I've spoken to Orion who doesn't seem too bothered by it. Maybe he's just trying to save face... But a small part of me hopes that Orion Wrote that goodbye.
waitaminute, I don't want to miss out on anything, so can somebody tell me which episode this is from? I'm at the 30th episode, but the background looks nothing like the one in this short video!
Honestly? They could of did Orion dirty. I am not defending his actions. but they could of did such worse. This is actually a very good moment, and shows how the group were family.
This is seriously messing me up man. I DIDN'T EVEN WATCH THE FIRST SEASON IN ITS ENTIRETY . I think I'm just feeling it extra hard because I'm worried I won't be able to play D&D for a very long time
Travis. You can tell he had to be the bad guy in this situation. But you from his face, you know, he'll do it every time to protect his Wife and his friends.
this brings tears to my eyes as he had been one of my favorites in the whole thing if not my top favorite. which I love them all but when I started watching these all from start to end over the last few months it hurt to see him go and it still sucks I'd love to one day see him come back for a game as a special guest. he will always be part of the best crew out there. #the shits
Tiberius was probably my favorite character along with Grog. I particularly enjoyed when they battled outside their keep, Tiberius brutally killed that unconscious old woman, and everybody gave him shit over it for like the next two episodes.
Both him and Sam were super done at this point. However, in the later episode where they bury him Travis has softened a bit, or is so removed that he can play an upset looking person well enough.
+Eldritch ' I think it was either written by Orion or co-authored. When you hear Orion's reasons for leaving - theres a lot of comparisons between this speech and the real life. And of course the "I respect you all very deeply" line.
This shows they all loved the character of Tiberius even after all the drama with Orion, I like that they kept the character and player separate rather than do character assassination like Community and Two and a Half Men did when their problematic cast members left
Man I wish that the story ooc with Orion went better bc I actually kinda liked Tiberius and his shtick, or maybe it was just because he was a Dragonborn and Dragonborn are my favorite
In the video he admits that Chemo Therapy for his Cancer, along with drug addiction and alcoholism caused him to behave the ways you saw and some you didn't see. He has since been through rehab and looks healthy on the cancer front as far as I know. Hes been working and has a new girlfriend according to his Instagram and he has had some photos with Matthew and even Travis.
Thank you! This is what I was looking for. I paused the video and don't wanna see it but I definitely wanted to know how long Tibs icon was gonna stay on screen.
