There is comedy in Javier's performance, but it's honestly a haunting portrayal of blind faith, religious fervour and later violence. Just as Frank Herbert would've wanted.
it wasnt blind...paul proved what no man could do before drinking the water of life and surviving...telling them of things that came to pass...he led the fremen in less than 9 months to destroy the harkonen and force the emperor to come...what they could not do for 80 yrs...its faith but it isnt blind...
He literally looks at paul, the boy he believes to be the chosen one and says he doesn't care if Paul doesn't believe he is the messiah. Not an encouraging, 'I believe in you' but a, 'I'm depending on you to prove me right so don't fuck up' Mans was so lost in his obsession with the prophecy, he began forcing it on paul subtley little by little, starting from when they first meet, paul asked him to stay an be honored, he replies 'I know you' before leaving
@@cerberusisagoodboy6054 not only that but he looks at the boy, that he has taught and bonded with, to whom he's like a father figure, dead on the floor and he can only think of the prophecy, he can only see the Lisan-al-Ghaib, not Paul Muadib Usul that he cared for before the final test.
jessica from dune 1 and jessica from dune 2 after she took the water of live are 2 different characters in some subtle and some more overt changes in mimic, gesture and action there is a short glimps of the old jessica after paul awoken from his spice trance but than she is back to her new self the actress is literally playing to different characters it was actually pretty good acting
A lot of people talk about how the Fremen got tricked but in a way Paul delivered pretty much what was promised with some slight ommissions like billions of casulties.
That will result in a male bene gesserit that can be controlled, the reverend mother did not like paul as the kwisatz haderach because they cannot control him..
@@firemaiden029 it’s interesting about the control or would it be more of containing as the Bene Tlielaxu purportedly created their own and destroyed it. The correct generational being may have foreseen a different path and even though contained may have revealed possibilities of the sisterhood’s destruction
@@BC-vg3zf They wanted a being who could see the future but had a kill switch for them if neccessary. Paul has no kill switch, the futures possibilities regardless of him or another person would have likely been similar no matter what.
They had no problem if paul had died (theu even plotted against him). When it was obvious they cannot control him, they quickly put their money on Feyd Rautha's bloodline as their other prospect regardless if he was a psychopath because Feyd can be controlled.
the thing is, Paul is already a mixture of a female Harkonnen and a male Atreides. I don't think a true Kwisatz Hedderach can be controlled, it is someone who can see the future, how are you supposed to control someone like this?
It’s crazy that that spice is the only form of interstellar navigation. Putting all your eggs (depending on one planet for your whole space empire) in one basket is a bad idea.
I kinda liked it, that command by Paul and then the cut to them having fulfilled it shows how simple and trivial killing the mighty Sardaukar was for them that it doesn’t even deserve a depiction. Puts emphasis on how much powerful the Freeman really were
Nah I like he just ordered it like a boss without us even needing to see the bloodbath because we already know they succeeded because the fremen were superior fighters so it was no contest.😂
The final assault shown in the film was a whole lot more than written in the book, in which there’s almost nothing. Having ploughed my way through the book, looking forward to a nice long Lord of The Rings type battle description , this was the biggest disappointment for me. So what we were given in the film was great in comparison. One major change was that in the book once the atomics have been deployed and the storm shorts out any shields on the ships, the Fremen take out the front of every ship to prevent their leaving. For the film though, that would have left no ships for the Fremen to commandeer for their jihad.
The Bene Gesserit planted the prophecy in the Fremen but who told them that the Kwisatch Haderach / Mahdi would come and that he would be the son of a Sayadina? Seems to me that someone way back in the BG past foresaw that this would happen. The Missionaria Protectiva is responsible for planting seeds of superstition and religious myths in primitive cultures. Not just on Arrakis but on many worlds. This strategic placement of myths and prophecies, known as the Panoplia Propheticus, allows the Bene Gesserit to manipulate and control these societies for their own purposes. The Fremen’s belief in a prophesied messianic figure, which had been sown by the Missionaria Protectiva, allows Paul to rise to a position of religious and political leadership as the Mahdi. How would the prophecy know that HE was the Kwisatch Haderach unless someone had foreseen it way back?
Power of anything someone takes very seriously - not just religion. People were fanatic and would fight and die for their King, their country, their political party, their movement, for money etc
No she didn't neither did Paul. They forsaw the suffering to come not just in their fight but the thousands of years of opression by Leto II so humanity could be free again. That is why Paul stops resting the prohecy as soon as he drinks the water. Billions don't matter if prosperity is assured of eternity.
There's no good or evil in the series.. Paul and Jessica are as rotten as the others. They're literally exploiting the Fremen for their own revenge. There's no black and white. Only people taking their own sides.
@@QuixoticCowboythey didn’t foresee Leto II, the reason Paul forsakes the golden path is because he didn’t foresee having a son. So he doubt his prescience.
@QuixoticCowboy she doesn't see the golden path, she sees Paul become the kwisatz haderach. Her prescience is limited because she herself is not the kwisatz haderach. Only the later bloodlines carry the ability of true prescience capable of seeing the golden path as well as the other potential futures of humanity. Which is why when Leto II tests them they side with him until eventually an Atreides is born that is immune to prescience completing the cycle
Cracks me up, Stilgar channelling Monty Python. I still hear him say it in a British accent. "Only the true messiah would deny he is the messiah!" "He is! He is the messiah!"
@@sickfoo5506Highly inaccurate portrayal & summation, but one I would expect from somebody who can only imagine not doing bad stuff because a god said so.
@user-uu2cj9ct3j the more you get away from faith the easier it is to fall into degeneracy... i grew up in LA and even though its an anecdotal example.. ive seen it countless times over the years
I've always been amazed at how quickly a religion that starts off with only best of intentions, the highest of spiritual goals get turned into the most violently militant, narrow minded followers with little or no tolerance for the beliefs of others with an almost blind willingness to destroy everything around them . Don't know how the rest of this will play but i hope cooler heads will prevail before the wost happens to all !!
@@G2H_HellBringer She doesn't though. From her point of view everything that the prophecy states has been true and even if its a lie its still happening. At what point does it stop being a lie and just start being the truth?
The BG created these prophecies based off their plan to create the kwizats haderach and their ability to see the future so it has roots in truth but it was vague because they could only see general images. They had to lay the foundations for their plan to create a true leader of the human race that could create the golden path. They made the people ready for this being in a way they could understand that wouldn't undermine their plan.
@@G2H_HellBringer It's not entirely a lie. Pual ends up doing everything the Fremen hoped for. He turned the planet into a Green Paradise, and he lead them to victory and retaking Arakis. The whole divine/god thing is a lie. But a person who can see the future and literally does what their religion said he was going to do is pretty damn powerful from a regular persons perspective. We the readers know it was just a 10,000 year old genetic breeding program to create a super being. But does it ultimately matter if they kind of end up actually succeeding in creating a pseudo-god? If there is no god, create one. Thats essentially what all religions do to control people today in the real world.
@@alstenfung5508it's really not. She comes across as just Zendaya in the desert. It makes absolutely no sense to be an edgy atheist on a world where your gods constantly threaten to eat you. Paul fullfills every prophecy, he literally is a prophet considering he can see the future, he DOES terraform arrakis into a green paradise, etc. Just because the bene gesserit made the prophecies doesn't make them untrue. Its ridiculous that Chani would be so against him becoming the lisan al gaib. Stilgar was the one that was actually objectively right about Paul. Shes also a massive hypocrite. Why the whole scene where she says "maybe you will be Fremen, maybe ill show you the way," just for her to scream about how the Fremen should be saved by Fremen. She never actually accepts paul as fremen even though she said she would. She's by far the worst part of the movie.
Thats the entire point? This part of the story, even in the book is about jessica manipulating the fremen using the bene gesserit myths to get their way. Paul is reluctant at first, but follows it in the end too.
The voice of Paul Atreides yelling makes me think of Adam Sandler as Billy Madison. Reverend Mother: "Consider what you're about to do, Paul Atreides!" 😠 Muad'Dib: "A-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA! SHUT UP!!!" 🫵😀😡 Reverend Mother: *GASP!* "Abomination!" 😕 😒 Shaddam: "You will bow at my feet!" 😠 Muad'Dib: "GELSCHGREGHLGRLGRRLOOOOOOOH!..." 🤬 Shaddam: *Kissing the ring* 😘 Muad'Dib: "GELO!..." 😀👍
I don’t understand why they changed it so that it’s only the southern fremen that believe in the prophecy and not all of them like in the book. It is made clear in the book that the fremen could only survive in the hardest of conditions because they were motivated by their fanatic hope of bringing back the green planet. Movie chani completely being aware of the idea of a „false prophecy“ and that it was planted by the bene geserit doesn’t make sense at all. But I guess they wanted to have a second main character that’s female 🙄
I think it's more likely a change in service of the message of Dune. Many have already misinterpreted the movie as praising Paul for his actions as it is, so it is only a good thing that they changed Chani to be more of a Captain Obvious, explaining what a critical thinker should already know. I think they handled it well, differently from the books, but well
@@RogySan like I said it just doesn’t make sense for chani. And I disagree on the notion that the book only had the ”religion dangerous“ message. I read it as way more nuanced. If they desperately needed a critical voice it should have been Paul himself, like in the books, because you know he would be actually capable of understanding all those things, unlike the fremen chani who fought harkonnen all her life and when the perfect opportunity to gain freedom arises, opposes it because it’s under a „false prophecy“, that she shouldn’t be able to critically think about because her entire culture evolved around that prophecy and it’s basically the only driving motivator for her people to keep on living.
@@wingthomaux you're right in saying that the books was way more nuanced, but a movie adaptation is a movie adaptation, sadly. You just have to cut down and simplify to fit book narratives into movies. Sometimes they do it poorly, sometimes they do it greatly. I think they did a very good job with Dune, but that's my feel on it. I get your sour taste for Chani, I also don't feel fondly for it. It probably stems from a sincrethization (or however you write it in english idk lol) between Chani's original character and the "modern" conception of youth. I think in Dune Messiah they'll handle this transformation and reconnect Chani to her original character. They added some features on her, in order to simplify the greater narrative and still mantain the overarching lore of Dune. So, I say, let them cook and see what happens in the third movie and whether this character change was for the best or the worst
Because Frank was not obvious enough in painting Paul as an anti-hero. To become the messiah he goes full space-hitler mode. And just like with every dictator it benefits his own people but to the cost of everyone else.
He literally was by the end of the books lol, especially in messiah, Paul has to compare himself to Hitler just to get stilgar to reconsider his zealotry and even then
Stilgar is faithful to the books. The change just happens sooner. Paul noticed the moment when Stilgar began to believe. He saw it as "a lessening of the man" as the strong Fremen leader became a "creature of the Lisan Al Gaib".... So if you don't like how fanatical Stilgar is, then the movie did its job perfectly
How about that many time in the news when someone claim theyre the reincarnation of jesus or muhammad or other messiah. You probably hve the same reaction as the elder when some fake jesus appear in the news🤦♂️
@@DailyShit. She said 'not again' because Stilgar is obsessed with the prophecy and has already made the mistake of thinking others were the messiah, and they were not. And those elders are northern fremen, the fremen equivalent of a wealthy class. They don't share the same superstitions as the hardcore fremen just trying to survive in the wild. They don't take the prophesies seriously. It's like in our world, we have people who believe in god, but then we have serious fundamentalists that take it to another level of belief.
Not every fremen believe in the prophecy. And while in the end the majority of them ended up swayed by Paul's display of power, most of them where probably closer to Chani in term of opinion in the matter.
the book literally calls Paul's war against the Landsraad a jihad, as well as the butlerian jihad that happened against machines 10k years prior to the events of dune. Kwisatz Haderach is extremely close to a Hebrew term. Seitch & Tabr both have deep historical meanings as well (although for the life of me I can't remember which culture). Herbert was a student of languages and wove dozens of wirds & phrases into his works from various civilisations
Lansraad is borrowed from dutch. The "na" in na-baron is russian (I actually First thought of German) And indeed "sietch" is borrowed by the cossacs Ukranian: "січ" This proposed way how language will evolve over more than 20 millenia is a quite fascinating Idea.
I am soooo glad the director, who claims a love of the text, decides he can write dialog better than the author. It's like watching The Hobbit by Peter Jackson...just painful.
This was the most boring and pretentious war movie ever made and the worst Dune adaptation to date. I'll die of old age wearing a golden crown surrounded by fanatical legions on this hill.
Gerny Paul's mother Everyone could see the tragedy in what Paul was doing but had he not done it, humanity would have remained frozen in. War is a transformative power, it can bring about great change but it is a horror. Paul had no choice but to start the war, not just for his survival but for the survival of the human race. The ways of the post butlerian jihad had frozen mankind in a stale state of repetition unprepared for the return of the machines and unprepared for the great enemy that was from another galaxy. So Leto had to take on that mantle and follow the golden path, the path of tyranny where Paul chose not to go because he had caused so much horror with war he couldn't stomach causing so much suffering as a tyrannical leader.
