Attempting to ascend to a higher state of existence opens up a lot of opportunities for tripping yourself up on the way. Song used: Holy Forest - King's Field IV OST
In the Design Works interview for Dark Souls, Miyazaki describes how he personally acted out the movement for the dragon stone transformation, and how the awkward, jerky motion conveyed the exertion of a human trying to force themselves to become a dragon.
I really like the dragon communion incantations for coming from a summoned dragon head, as though you merely acquired the permission to use them rather than became able to breath fire or whatnot yourself.
You're wrong, becoming a dragon has a chance that eventually you'll get your own soundtrack, and there's a 47% chance it'll be a banger. Well worth the pain and agony
Thank you anime profile picture on RU-vid comment section you clearly will never leave me a stray! Thank you for the advice! 👍🏼 Edit: I’ve become dragon… ouch!
right? i was just saying the other day, malenia is such BADASS body horror. she ascends to a goddess of rot, but her wings are rotten, her eyes are decayed, and she is basically only a torso
This only makes Crossbreed Priscilla's existence more astounding, a true cross between human and dragon that seemingly went right. Makes sense why Seathe went out his way to ensure her safety, even if it meant sending her into a painted world.
Not to be a dick or anything but it didn't go right, they hid her in a painting so outsiders wouldn't know what gwyn was doing. He locked priscilla in a painting and Yorshka in a tower. Play the games man.
Personally, I think Seath rejected her for not being a properly stone entity. Priscilla only has scales on her neck, and for what it's worth, Priscilla and the blue wyverns are the only dragon enemies in the game susceptible to bleed, meaning that they could be too "watered down" and thus not inorganic enough.
was looking for the comment about crossbreed priscilla. its all monstrosities but we got one cute one. although i think its different as she was born like that while this is a "punishment" for being human and trying to become a dragon.
Since I’m bad at understanding game lord I always just look at a Wiki and for her it says cross breed of Seath the Scaleless and human or a god. So if she is the daughter of a god then the lack of horrible mutations make sense and that’s what I like to think.
I think, in Magma Wyrm's case it's like an endless cycle of hero, who slays a dragon, then becomes the one himself, to be defeated by next hero. It's emphasized that only the greatest warriors could defeat a dragon, so communion it's like writing your name onto a scoreboard until someone else rewrites it with their own.
Just wanted to give you praise for the clever shot of the DS3 dragon player model to represent one type of hybrid, who then pulls out a torch to illuminate the second type of hybrid behind them in the darkness. Very very elegant shot!
I know the description says the magma wyrms are "cursed", but they seem like a pretty massive success to me. They even drop legitimate dragon hearts. They can't fly, but I would still call that mission accomplished.
From a purely pratical point of view yeah, they're pretty strong creatures and definitely functional compared to the other messes we meet in the game. In mythology though, being forced to crawl on the ground is usually a punishment for arrogance. But you get a cool-ass sword!
@@thesuntitan Exactly. If my goal was to become dragon-like, I would be fucking stoked to be two stories tall, covered in durable scales, capable of breathing fucking magma, and in possession of a cool-ass sword. Hell, they don't even have to crawl. They probably just do that because its comfy. In their second phase, we see that they're fully-capable of standing on two legs, and agile at that. This is kind of similar to vampirism being inflicted upon people as a "curse" in a lot of stories/settings. Ah, mortal, you have offended the Gods! As "punishment", you are cursed to have super strength, immortality, and the ability to fly. That'll teach you.
@@epsteindidntkillhimself69 I think the idea is that the people in these games don't want to be dragons because dragons are cool/powerful, they want to be dragons because dragons are immortal. But in the bid for immortality, they just become giant non-immortal lizards. Certainly not the worst fate in their world, but not one I'd qualify as a success.
@@srrich27 Maybe the punishment is more psychological. You're a human with the body of a dragon, humans need social interaction but because of your appearance and the fact that your dragon half want's to consume the humans that you want to talk with. You will be stuck in solitary confinement, a prisoner in your own body slowly going insane.
I love how Miyazaki almost always shows immortality as a curse rather than a blessing. There are very few people who are immortal in his worlds who seem at all happy about it
eh, that's been the dominant cliche for a long time. frankly, at this point it would be surprising for any remotely dark work of fiction to portray immortality as being a remotely good thing.
@@VeryPeeved I mean...yeah but the keyword here is "dark work of fiction". Most other fiction portray immortality as a good thing people aspire to attain. But also I can't think of a single prominent work of fiction that uses immortality as a curse in the way miyazaki does. Nor have any been doing it as long or consistently as him so at this point it's practically his own theme.
"The pursuit of immortality is typically framed as a hopeless, self-destructive endeavor in Miyazaki's games." The player coming back to life for the thousandth time after walking off a cliff: ( 0_0)
except that's not quite true immortality. Undead/Tarnished eventually lose the ability to respawn, by going hollow or losing the guidance of grace, implied to be the effect of their willpower/hope weakening, aka what happens when the player ragequits. The demon slayer and the hunter are bound to a nexus that holds them prisoner, giving them pseudoimmortality, making it very conditional to keep.
Divine Tower of Caelid killed me more times than Radahn did. And then I found out you're supposed to go up, not down. Only to be greeted by Godskin Apostle.
@@OpXarxa Isn't conditional immortality as good as it gets, though? How many characters in any story are actually immortal? Even gods die on a regular basis.
An interesting thing to note: Becoming a dragon through the means of using stones, blood, and hearts always seems to go wrong during the transformation. But when a dragon hybrid is born rather than created through those means, they’re much better, and are kinda their own species. Not in any pain or disgraced. Edit: I also remembered aldia’s dragon. It wasn’t a true dragon, but was very much the same size and power as one.
@@jstar3382 Yup, the gods were cowards and did _everything_ they could to maintain the shred of power they captured from the age of the stone dragons. It's always mind boggling how people think of Gwynevere or Gwyndolin as good gods when they're both supporting Gwyn in perpetuating a lie that punishes humans and causes them to suffer for eternity as they wither away, denied their true nature. Lots of paralells between the Dark Souls godkin and the gods we see in Elden Ring, many of the gods were arrogant and fearful of those who could take their position away, regardless of motives.
Honestly I want to see a person in a souls game that truly transends into a dragon. The regrets of it, the pain, possibly even a bossfight that tugs at your heart.
While it’s not close to being an emotional boss fight, the closest boss I can think of is Rom from bloodborne. Rom did become a great one, presumably after eating three umbilical cords, then after seeing the Eldridge horrors of the night and the hunt, became a barrier whose death becomes the catalyst for the blood moon. Unless you want to count the Orphan of Kos
Yeah, I like that they're portrayed as dangerous and often mysterious as they're claimed to be. DnD dragons very frequently aren't that well fleshed out (the new lore helps though). I mean... a lot of things in DnD frequently aren't that well thought out.
in traditional western fantasy, becoming a dragon tends to be more of a curse than anything - it's funny in that regard. it is a curse in the souls series, but the characters who want it do so because they think it would be a blessing
From arrested development: "Did it ever work for these people?" "No. It never does. I mean these people somehow delude themselves into thinking it might. But......it might work for us."
To be fair, one of humanity’s greatest qualities is perseverance, if we gave up a long time with trying to improve our lives, then we will still be living in caves. After all, sucess is just the result of enduring a lot of failures
This is similar to Rykard’s pursuit of power and transformation into/becoming part of the serpent. In the end, the lady is eating them so that they will become part of her or something along those lines. Rykard’s last words were “a serpent never dies.”
@@colorpg152 You wouldn't want it. All it would take is for someone to bury you alive or drop you into the bottom of the sea for you to change your mind.
@@redwolf4611 man you people are really weak willed, getting buried sounds like heaven compared to having to deal with people in real life , the sea wont try to cancel me, it wont yell at me for speaking the truth, it wont force me to work day after day for their profit without giving anything back, being at the bottom of the sea sounds great, if i was immortal i would spend a few billion years there.
I just noticed that the Dragonkin also have roots around their necks, like Trolls do. Perhaps the Nox used Trolls as the starting template for their dragons? The four limbs, four wings, and use of lightning would seem to imply that they were particularly trying to emulate the ancient dragons, so they might have chosen not to use the weaker modern dragons as a template.
@@asdergold1 theodorix ended up as a magma wyrm so maybe he was a troll partaking in dragon communion, the nox seemed to actively try and create dragons out of other being while the dragon communion simply cursed those who stole dragons powers
That's actually a really cool detail with the pupils. I love how your character goes through cosmetic changes as they perform certain actions to better reflect them.
It's a shame you can't choose between them with the mirror/Rennala (you can only disable or enable them) and they just get overridden with other ones. The dragon eyes get overridden with the blood red eyes you get if you allow Varre to turn you into a bloody finger and both get overridden with the other eyes you get from that one ending path (which also giving you marks on your body).
@@quantras2673 It annoys me so much that I didn't get to keep my dragon eyes because of the bloody finger eyes. I really hope they will allow us to choose them in the future.
@@sharinganwoetie2588 There are 3 altered eye options. Frenzied Flame, Bloody Finger, and Dragon Communion. Dragon Communion will ALWAYS be overwritten by both Bloody Finger and Frenzied Flame, no matter when you would have gotten them. Also, Bloody Finger will always be overwritten by Frenzied Flame. So unfortunately, Dragon Communion is on the bottom of the totem pole.
Out of all the half-dragons in the elden ring and other Soulsborne games, I prefer the fate of the magma wyrms. Compared to the other misshapen lizards, the Magma Wyrms seem the most chill. They're just big lizards vibing in caves and magma flows.
"cursed to crawl on the earth on their bellies" is a surprisingly similar quote to Genesis 3:14. As the Bible goes, God cursed serpents to crawl on the ground for leading mankind astray in sin, when Adam was convinced to consume the forbidden fruit to become 'like God' (in the sense of knowing right and wrong). Guess these human heroes wished to become god-like by blurring the lines between themselves and the immortal dragons via dragon communion and were cursed for it.
The Dragonkin Soldier character design is so cool, I feel like the only way they could be better is if you put one in the middle of a giant swamp full of Scarlet Rot and give the player a terrible reward for beating them
@@suitnuggerat1123 I'm playing a lightning/Dex character right now, and I don't bother with it. I'm sure it's ok if you really want ice damage on your faith character for some reason, but I believe it gets outclassed by about every weapon in every category it belongs to. You'll get better damage putting a lightning ash on a keen weapon.
@BearSeek Berserker I killed it legit and I'd bet you probably had more fun with it than I did. Some bosses don't deserve the respect of being fought "fairly". That was one of them.
@@suitnuggerat1123 it's a relatively short katana with no innate bleed, a slow and expensive ash of war that only lasts for 20 seconds, and on top of all of that, it doesn't even scale with faith (even though it used to). So in a sense, it's as sad as the creatures it drops from. it's really cool though
@@doctorhealsgood5456 yea the got off a bit luckier. but it s clear that transformation dulled their minds top below human levels. the dcragons. especially in elden ring, are shown to be sentient beings. tactical, with the ancient dragons even wielding weapons, whether forged of their magical lightning or physically forged.
@@taddad2641 I think part of why they got off better then most is cause they didn’t just use magic or graft a dragon to them. They had to kill a dragon and consume it’s heart. Maybe it is just me, but in these games it feels like the immortality that is harder to get is usually the one with the better parts. Hence Elden lord having some downsides yes but mostly upsides as it is almost impossible to obtain
@@theblazingcrusader6322 In asian mythologies a carp can become a dragon if they do the nigh impossible and swim up a waterfall, magma wyrms get off better because they're participating in a great trial (fighting and killing dragons) to try and become one.
I have to say I feel there's 2 big points not mentioned in this about dragon transformation in the Souls Games. The first one is very interestingly: consent The dragon transformations the player can take are the more orderly ones, least awkward. In DS1 and 2 you are either bestowed by a dragon themself, or by something related ot dragons, the stones to transform. In order to increase this transformation, one must partake in mutually consenting duels. One can't invade anotehr person without the other person accepting to partake in such a duel for the price of dragon scales themselves. In DS2 the other wellformed dragonkin we find are in the aerie protecting the ancient dragon, and serving as challengers, or safekeepers of a safe challenge, to meet the dragon. In DS3, with seemingly all everlasting dragons dead, one must resort to searching out the remaining stones... but this also leads to something interesting. We find malformed dragonkin, but where are they? We find most of these at the Irithyl dungeon, where we know Oceiros was experimenting with people for his search of dragonhood. It clearly shows that those people were not willing to partake in that, and the results are sad. But there is also something very interesting about the results and source: Oceiros was trying to mimic Seath. Seath being the traitorous dragon who, through their envy of their lack of scales, aided in the outright genocide of dragons, for a chance to have as much time and information and resources as necessary to achieve his immortality. Oceiros was following after this particular dragon, whose search of the inmortality he didn't have lead him to be malformed, both of their researchs came out of the forceful conversion of others as well, so it makes sense that they both too, would be malformed. The second point is: Escape What we find is a topic of trying to escape the horrible cycle and world they currently exist in, through becoming dragons. How do you reach dragon peak in DS3? You need to meditate in a specific spot, looking at the peak, amongst other people in the same position that are slumped over, seemingly dead... and the player does slump over too before awaking at the peak, implying all the other people managed to escape too. Other elements in the prior games too seem to mention escaping through becoming dragonhood, altho I'm having it a bit harder to remember. The other part elaborated in DS3 is... all the dragonkin slumped over, lifeless, at thte peak. In buddihsm and other easstern philosophies, an important goal is escaping the cycle of suffering and rebirth, through something rather opposite to eternal life: ceasing to be reborn, often with one reaching oblivion. The fact that all the dragonkin we find are slumped over, lifeless... it could very strongly imply that they managed their goal: They escaped the horrible cycle of the world by ceasing to be entirely. But... didn't we and others awake at Dragon peak after meditating in said pose at the Dungeon too? It is very possible too, that instead of oblivion, the dragonkin simply managed to escape that world, their consciousness reaching elsewhere in the same manner... whether that place is better or worse than the current world, who can say. And about Elden Ring... I mean they are people who try to become dragons by searching and murdering docens of em... I think it's pretty clear one side ain't bieng exactly consentual in this situation now, aren't they.
THANK YOU for this well thought out reply! I can't thank you enough as i'm someone who's intersted in the esoteric side of the Souls games and yet have little experience with the actual games themselves. You having written this was a HUGE help for me in understanding the Themes of the games when it comes to this. Thank you THANK YOU. YOU ROCK!
Dark Souls: "Thank you for helping me reach Nirvanna" "I̶m̶ ̶l̶i̶t̶e̶r̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶a̶ ̶l̶i̶z̶a̶r̶d̶ You are welcome child" Elden Ring: "HEAAAAARTTSSSSS" "AHHHHHHHHHH"
The secret behind draconic immortality is dedication, and the will to go on, even if the path is an arduous one. You'll suffer, yes, it'll be painful as all hell, yes, you might end up a horrid monster, yes. If, at the end of the day, you're willing to take those risks, and go beyond them to become an ancient dragon, then there is no doubt of your success, no matter how long it takes.
It's kind of funny that Miyazaki always makes becoming a Dragon a dark and depressing endeavor even though mythology in Japan has romanticized the concept with the legend of the Koi that swam up a waterfall to become a Dragon. In that legend, becoming a Dragon can be achieved through ambition, perseverance and determination, but it's like Miyazaki makes of the concept in his games.
It'd be interesting if that concept of the Koi swimming up the waterfall does exist in his games, and the amalgamations we see are those attempting a "get rich quick" version of it, especially given that their goal is typically immortality. Get rich quick, live forever, but suffer the entire way though and never truly be there.
@@milesholiman5597 they literally referenced it in Sekiro… there is a giant Koi in the Fountainhead Palace and it’s heavily implied it’s trying to become the next Divine Dragon.
You make really wonderful videos, Zullie. You completely replace the need for a descriptive voice-over or walls of text with super meaningful and informative imagery and its honestly very impressive.
A few things I've gather during my playthrough, these are just first-look observations so I'm happy to be proven wrong! It's also implied that, beastial as they may be, the modern dragons of the lands between were both aware and actively hunting partakers of dragon communion. We can see an example of this right in front of the dragon cathedral with the rot dragon, who's title is Ekyzykes, dragon communion revenger. Before Malenia decided to nuke Caelid to have a chance for a stalemate against Radahn, he most likely prowled the area to hunt those who'd try to eat dragon hearts. His hatred was so great that he kept guarding the entrance even while he was decaying into nothing. In the same vein despite not coexisting anywhere else in the game (as far as I know) both ancient dragons and their wyvern-like descendants seemed to fight against dragon communion. Although the hearts you eat are from regular dragons, you can see ancient dragon corpses in all the dragon churches, seemingly having crashed through in an attempt to destroy them. Last thing, humans weren't the only ones able to eat dragon hearts (and ending up cursed by doing so, but can you really blame them, have you seen the RANGE on those dragon breaths?) the great magma wyrm Theodryx used to be a troll. I also wonder what's up with the dragon powered banished knights. At first I thought they were partaking in communion just like the player, but you can also find them in crumbling Farum Azula, where they almost seem to be guarding the place. If that were the case, why would they wield dragon breaths when doing so was seen as taboo?
I may have an idea You see, the fire they breathe is very difrent from the incantation variant, Maybe you can get a weaker version from serving them Then again i dont think that people from the dragon cult can spew fire, so either its a difrent kind of worship, or the knights have been Able to find a weaker version of dragon comunion in farum azula, Honestly idk
Kind of reminds me of the Dark Sun campaign setting from D&D. Arcane magic in that setting literally drains the life out of anything around it, the more powerful the spell the worse. And the end goal of most arcane magic users was to transform into an immortal dragon.
i have remark that some of those "artificial dragons" have a distinct feature that stick out for me in particular. it's the two jaws, one inside the other, jaws that we can clearly see on the draconic soldiers in elden ring but also in demon souls with the dragon god. it's like they are wearing the skin of a dragon like some akward disguise and i find it realy interesting.
I'm imagining a bit like Children of Dune, the men grafting dragon skin onto their bodies and undergoing a transitional stage as they eventually make this skin their own.
Very possible. Notice the shape of the lower jaw and the way the scales are fitted on the neck, they look as if carved and set in the flesh. The eternal cities smell foul with the taint of artificiality and mimicry. No wonder they were damned. Leads me to think that they never really deserved their age of stars.
Having two rolls of teeth is an old thing referenced in Hebrew texts about the nephilim, which are the result of crossbreeding between fallen angels and humans. Maybe Miyazaki got the idea from that, given that both beings are described as having two sets of teeth, are giants and are desrmcribed as being in between one thing and the other.
That doesnt really hold up as in DS1 in the cinematic involving the everlasting dragons you can see them having 2 sets of teeth and in DeS the dragon god is the same
Particularly reminiscent of Lord of the Rings where immortality is not natural to humans an hobbits. The rings of power basically just stretch out your life for ever rather than granting new life. So Gollum turns into a wirey, gaunt monster and the ring wraiths had theirs’ so long, their life was spread so thin they basically lost their corporeal bodies and turned into wraiths. This is why so many of the regular enemies in ER look like ghoulish zombies. There is no normal death in The Lands Between. It sounds like normally at some point you “die” and are supposed to report to the catacombs to be reabsorbed by the Erdtree. All the enemies we see haven’t done that so their body has continued to age without dying. Sekiro also has a similar thing with immortality. Wolf’s immortality doesn’t create new life, it just steals it from those around him when he dies and this manifests as the spreading dragon rot.
I'd love to see a character arc where we come across someone who achieved immortality and became a true, regal dragon... but hated the transformation so much that they almost went completely mad and does not want anyone else to experience the pain and horror they themself went through. It would be a deviation from the usual trope of failed transformation from human to dragon that Miyazaki likes to do, while still carrying over the message that he's wanting to tell people, essentially a case of "this is what happens even IF you somehow succeed." Simply put, humans and numans have no business wanting to become dragons. They should be content enough with the dragon cult's existence. Learn from them, do not become them...
But I am not content. Why should I be content with getting old and dying? I don't want to die. I want to be immortal. And if that means abandoning human form then so be it.
I kind of want to see someone that succeeds in the transformation but now has so much time on their hands they just kinda... don't know what to do with it all now or expected to fail so now that they've gotten there they're just kind of lost.
I don't understand this defeatist logic so you were born mortal and now you are supposed to just accept death without fighting, that sounds like a hollow's philosophy, a chosen undead would say nah I will just become a dragon anyway
@@colorpg152 The funny thing is that the undead are basically a foil to it. They keep their human form and the message is that it is worth "living" for its own sake even if it means dying repeatedly. Even kindling the flame the purpose is to try to preserve life as a self-sacrifice instead of a suicide.
This video really makes me think on my own Communion/Lightning based character: a reincarnation of a character of mine from previous Souls games named Kalise. In Elden Ring I made her Draconian and centered her entire spell and moveset around the dragons and their power. She doesn't worship dragons themselves, but more the power they have: Power she craves for herself, believing it to be her birthright as Draconian. Hers is a tale of self destruction to achieve ascension, becoming a goddess through draconic power and taking the title of Dragoness for herself. Her heavy partaking in Communion and hunting draconic creatures for their power also earns her the title of Dragon Eater: Literally devouring dragons of all forms to gain unimaginable strength. When she eventually falls to the sin of Communion, I imagine she's going to become something truly terrifying. The Dragon Queen of the new age, destined to collapse under the weight of her own power. She believes she can avoid the fate of others who partake in Communion by incorporating the power of the ancient dragons into herself. She may get closer than anyone else ever could, but she will still fall short of becoming a true, ancient dragon. All the ferocity and power without the true majesty.
@@colorpg152 Stars, if only we could get wings like that. Heck, I still wish we could get the Aspect wings that Crucible Knights use. There is always DLC, though: fingers crossed for new spells and maybe transformations.
@@theskepticalwhaler4946 Never thought of that. She doesn't really have a reason to end the world, more just become so overwhelmingly strong that none can oppose her in lordship.
Without any knowledge of what awaits us beyond death... or in the age of dark... it is no wonder that some would turn to such a macabre measure as a way to escape unescapable oblivion. But as these games have shown us, there are some fates that are worse than death.
Gen 3:14 [So the LORD God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, “Cursed are you above all livestock and all wild animals! You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life.]
Interesting to consider whether its partially inspired by the pursuit of immortality with alchemy (a lot of people drinking mercury and kicking the bucket). I think alchemy is a big inspiration for Miyazaki generally.
Just a PSA to anyone who wasn't aware. The Draconic eyes are not permanent, you can remove them at the cosmetic menu in the Roundtable Hold. There's a toggle called eye cosmetics or something that, when disabled, will return your eyes to their normal state. Works for the bloody eyes too.
Is probably more of a From Soft thing than a Miyazaki thing. They did a similar concept in Eternal Ring where characters were cursed by their search for the powerful magic on the island, being turned into monsters that slowly lose they humanity. Most notably, powerful mages get turned into dragons.
I never played elden ring, but you guys in the comments are really in-depth about the subject and I love when a community can come together and have discussion board over various things. Keep rocking guys, plus the music is soothing
My first reaction when my eyes went all dragon-y was, "I don't know what I did to cause this -- but it's awesome and I glad I did it". After finding out the terrible true nature and curse of my heart-eating deeds I... still regret nothing.
You know, we never got a “dragon form” like all dark souls games had. Given we know wyrms are humans that turned into dragons after consuming hearts, I think it’d be cool to have that ability when you consume all of them. It’d be even more interesting if it made you quadrupedal too, though that seems like it would be a lot of work to do.
I'd say no Quadrupedal form, because that would be so much work and would basically be a new player character altogheter. But a Dragonkin transformation would be really cool, since they are basically huge humanoids wearing golden armor. I'd love if the transformation gave you a buff for Dragon Incantations.
@@FaptaA agreed on the quad stance but ya a resulting mid way to magma wyrm and human for ya after eating enough hearts but of corse its a permadent thing so buffs are lower if you can still use armor, or it be quite a strong thing but of corse your new tail and wings make clothing imposalbe with claws being degigrade shoes are seen as a problem more than solution and well no need to explain the helm.
Dude I have so many Ideas to make certan Armor pieces cooler and stuff like you just described. I want to Mod it all in to the Game but a Caveman like me can't even Write a Email without sending it to the wrong Person.
I love these videos - taking a series of what to me were disperate notions and ideas and putting them all next to each other in a clear and concise way, each part informing on the others - bringing coherence. It settles the rattling of the many little pieces in mind down into their proper places in the image in the mosaic
Be grateful for the blessings you receive and dare not to ask for more. Love your videos so much. Thank you for the time, care and consideration you put into your work.
I _really_ wish that the Dragonkin armor was an available set in the game. The draconic transformation is echoed by the same flaw in Marika sealing away the Rune of Death to allow the Erdtree & Golden Order to perpetuate forever. It's chasing the Primordial Crucible for ancient power, without understanding what exists now. That power becomes an addiction that you depend upon, and that changes you the more you use it. It's what Yura warns about and tries to stop with Eleonora. Even benevolent actions to combat helplessness against their kindling maiden's one's fate are why Bernhardt became a Recusant, and Vyke fell to the lure of the Three Fingers. It's why I love how Elden Ring mixes that all with the balance between Regression & Causality.
Feels like a whole chunk of dragon related story and gameplay is missing. In particular a dragon and ending and quests related to dragon powers. If we're lucky that might be DLC.
@@MenwithHill That's elden ring. There are obviously huge chunks of story, connections, explanations just absent from the game. I still wonder what the point of hyping George Martins involvement was considering all the abandoned concepts and lack of story telling in Elden Ring.
@@eternalnate George laid out the lore and background of the characters ; from what we know he didn't write anything post-Shattering. That stuff and all the character dynamics is what has gotten people most hyped up and talking, so clearly it has worked. I'm not sure what you'd want beyond more cutscenes.
to be fair, it's from. their storytelling is basically only present in the beginning cutscene, item descriptions, and the occasional cutscene. i personally enjoy unorthodox storytelling practices like this
I also love Yura’s warning, that the path of using dragonkin magic is a slippery slope of corruption. And he’s right, a lot of us are enamored with the flashy devastation as we consume more, only we don’t get to see how that turns out besides the eyes.
Honestly I'm a little disappointed that's the only consequence of using them. If you gradually gained scales, wings, or horns then that would be awesome! I'm a little disappointed that this game doesn't have a proper dragon transformation despite it being slightly more "in your face" thematically than it was in the previous games. He straight up tells you that you'll turn into something inhuman and yet there aren't really any permanent, irreversible changes to your character. No new ending, stat changes or abnormal body modifications, just glow in the dark contacts and some OP spells.
@@hhjhj393 Actually it might be a good fit. It was heavily implied that before the Greater Will and Golden Order became the rulers of the Lands in Between, the Dragons are the one ruling with the Farum Azula Beastmen worshipping them. It was a fan theory that the very first Lord was actually Placidusax and after the Marika and Golden Order defeated him that the very first ELDEN LORD was crowned. So if we could have a Age of Dragon ending, it will literally just putting thins back before the Greater Will chose to invade the lands Between.
Wanted to thank you for making your videos. I don’t play these games but the lore and character designs are so compelling that they’re just incredibly interesting to learn about. Your efforts are appreciated! Thank you!
Becoming a dragon is a concept and idiom that originated from China, "望子成龍望女成鳳", "hoping your son will become a dragon, your daughter will become a phoenix". It basically means hoping that your children will grow up to be successful, with a mythical reference to how the carp that leapt over a water fall to become a dragon, made well known in modern times by the Pokemon Magikarp. This is such a common idea that Jackie Chan's CN name is 成龍/Cheng Long, which means "become a dragon", and also Yakuza's JP name, Ryu Ga Gotoku which means "Like a Dragon".
I don't think it's correct to say the idea "originated from China," or that it originated from a particular Chinese phrase. First of all, what's the etymology of that phrase? Second, other cultures came up with things we call dragons, or very dragon-like thing, and I kinda doubt the idea of turning into one of them was unique to the Chinese. Transformation myths abound in every culture. I'm sorry if my tone seems mean or something, I'm just genuinely kinda baffled by this comment.
@@Wveth Dragons are definitely not unique to China, however the mythological inspirations of Souls games and Japanese myths all traces back to China. Have you wondered why Souls games involves cycles of eras and events, a lot of suffering as well as characters who die and resurrect? That's because Souls games are literally about Buddhist concepts of, attachment, suffering, reincarnation and karma etc. NPCs are all suffering from attachment to something, which ultimately leads to their death, gods and other entities continuously bring about karmic cycles of death and rebirth, causing karma to manifest in the form of the player, who are one of many hollows, ashened, hunters, tarnished etc. Karma is basically cause and effect, the more positivity and negativity you put into the world, the equal and opposite will return to you, an endless cycle. After the Demigods caused so much suffering in the Lands Between, the Tarnished are led by "grace", which is basically karmic fate to try and put an end to the cycle of suffering. All of Soulsbourne follows this concept and even Sekiro, have you wondered why in Sekiro's "Dragon's Homecoming" ending he heads "West" with the Divine Child? Because the West of Japan refers to the heaven of China, specifically the Buddhist heaven Sukhavati, that is where Kuro will reincarnate, and that place is where the Divine Dragon(which is a Chinese dragon) comes from, what the Dragon's Homecoming means. All the corruption in Souls games are a combination of the Shinto concept of filth "kegare" and the Buddhist concepts of attachment and karma. By chasing after power, e.g trying to become a dragon, they only get corrupted and punished by karma.
Fafnir and many other examples would disagree with you. China did a lot of things, but creating the concept of dragon and becoming dragon is definitely not one of them
@@eloryosnak4100 Japan and Korea would not use the written word until a millennium after China begin writing down history. They would not have known anything about their pre-history without records from China much like modern European would know nothing about their pre-history if the Roman hadn't written it down. While it is silly to fight over the concept of who invented' a phrase/idiom, it is also pretty silly to say the image(or the idea to become one) of the eastern dragon didn't start in China.
And just like that, the words of Aldia resonates once again "Men are props on the stage of life, and no matter how tender, how exquisite, A LIE WILL REMAIN A LIE"
@@colorpg152 they didn't achieve immortality. They were both bound to the First Flame cycle by Gwin's first sin and unable to die, much like everyone else. They just found each a way to not hollow. They only exist as long as the broken cycle keeps being perpetuated and we see in ds3 that at some point it can't keep going anymore and everything just turns to ash, them included.
In three minutes you managed to perfectly explain the lore and what it represents. I often think ahead too much. Death feels like it’s around every corner for me. But Miyazaki shows through his games that refusal to change with yourself and the world, will result in you becoming a hideous malformed monster. Great video bro 👍
The characters in Miyazaki's games are ready to pay any cost they can, just to be anatomically compatible with Priscilla so that she can become their waifu.
Its remarkable in Sekiro - most of "bad" want to reach immortality (Genichiro, Owl, many of monks and others) on the other hand - "good" characters are not afraid of death and accept it calmly and with dignity. Isshin asks Sekiro to cut his head when he is defeated, immortal warrior seeks for death... and other characters
Loved some of these angles and camera pans, especially the Dragonkin Soldier's guts to the wings. Also really like this format, written content w no audio besides game style music is nice. Feels like gamer content
A little bit of trivia on the whole dragon degeneration. One of the magma wyrms, Theodorix is bigger than usual and that’s because he was a troll before the transformation. Some believe this is a small reference to the Norse story of Fafnir who was a dwarf who succumbed to greed and became a dragon. Considering the themes of pursuit of immortality at the cost of humanity seems like a good time to bring up also bloodbornes pursuit of insight and later madness.
I really hope whenever they bring the DLC that they include a dragon transformation. Kind of like how they added the beast transformation in the Old Hunters DLC. Or at least more change besides just the eyes.
I hope so too. As I was looking forward to finding out what the dragon form would look like in elden ring only to be disappointed to find out there isn’t any.
This might explain why they use the title "Flying Dragon" for some boss like Flying Dragon Agheel. To help distinguish a true dragon capable of majestic flight from a would be dragon like a magma wyrm that has to crawl.
Yeah I think that's a good reason why are they are called "Flying dragons" also and as far as I know the dragons don't speak so how did they know their names? could it be these are human who succeeded on becoming dragons, although lesser dragons but atleast they are not malformed.
the world flying dragon comes from hiryu a Japanese world which when translated literally means flying dragon but it can also mean fire dragon or wyvern so there is a decent chance is a mistake
This is what makes you such an important and beloved figure in the Souls community Zullie. You don't just show us cool behind the scenes stuff or mess around with code and animations. You focus on these fascinating little mini pockets of Miyazaki's worlds and shine a light on it, or show us something new, some new way of thinking about it. It's always so fascinating. You have people like illusory wall or Limit Breakers, who are on the technical side. On the lore side you have SinclairLore, Lokey, Vaati obviously (even if his own success has diluted the content a bit). But you're this unique mix of both sides of the coin and constantly come out with great content.
I personally can't stand Vaati's reading style. He starts and stops and tries to cloak his voice in mystery or dramatic effect but it just makes me cringe. If he read normally I'd have watched all of his stuff
This might be useful for my own worldbuilding. In my fictional world, there is a race of half dragons that originated as a experiments made by the dragons themselves. I haven't worked on that too much yet, but this might at least help inspire me. Thanks Zulie!
what if the dragonkin soldiers are transformed trolls? they have similar sizes and proportions, though shifted a bit by the transformation, and they share traits like the hollow abdomen and the root-like growths
Dragonkin soldiers are some of my favorite boss/field boss, thematic and imposing, but they felt a lil underused, I hope there's more on them in dlc or just the lore surrounding them
Other interesting item descriptions about Magma Wyrms Those who have performed the Dragon Communion will find their humanity slowly slipping away. Once they fully succumb to their fate, they are left no more than wyrms that crawl the earth It's said these land-bound dragons were once humans heroes who partook in dragon communion, a grave transgression for which they were cursed to crawl the earth upon their bellies, shadows of their former selves. Once known as a great warrior, Theodorix has succumbed to the power of Dragon Communion, transforming into a malformed Wyrm. It is capable of using its sword, along with its magma breath on anything that dares to awaken it The name of the ancient troll warrior Theodorix lives on - as a hero of the War against the Giants.
a better way of searching for immortality is doing Fia's quest or becoming a sorcerer and doing it with a primal glint stone like sellen but even turning into a magma wyrm is still far better than dying and being forgotten like all the dead corpses you loot around in the game
@@colorpg152 We're all forgotten eventually. Sometimes passing away into your eternal rest is much more preferable than an anguished existence as a misshapen shell of your former self.
The item description on Great Wyrm Theodorix's magma breath describes how his name is that of a great troll which also suggests he was once a person, a troll who fought in the war against giants. I was wondering the same thing about this after, if they were once people beforehand and this video really helps shed light on that, thank you.
Not sure if you read all the comment but thank you always for your interesting and informative videos. Obviously lore and the thoughts behind the theme is a very interesting and fun part of Souls-series. I love your videos cause it's not only insightful but by going through behind the scene, cut contents, you guess and show the glimpse of what could've been.
Dragons dogma has an interesting idea like this, upon defeating the dragon you often become one yourself. You can be essentially a fully formed powerful dragon, but can't escape that fate. I suppose there, it's less about malformed creation and more about the loss of will.
Depends on the arisens will to defeat the senescal If an arisen fails to defeat the dragon, they turn into drakes and wyvern If they fail to defeat the senescal, they turn into dragon But if they refuse to defeat the dragon, they are cursed to become half-formed hybrids
@@johnathangoldstein9991 I think he's referencing fake Netflix Dragon's Dogma, where dude killed the dragon and turned into it. Game's story was much better.
@@damoneldritch7588 It's all about cyclical fate. If you kill the dragon, you either become the next one or the seneschal. Unless your character is willing to wander around in Hell World Gransys for the rest of their unnatural life, they have to confront their maker.
It's also implied that at least some of the magma wyrms were crucible knights. Possibly implying that there was some division among their ranks at some point. We even find one crucible knight staring at the corpse of a dragon, almost wistfully, like the havel knight from DS3. This may explain why they aspects of the crucible incantations all offer dragon like abilities. Maybe they were all off on a journey to become dragons. I'm not sure we can say that any of them succeeded but I will say that winged horned lizard is a pretty close attempt. I'm down with the lava lizard bois.
I think the crucible incantations are all more akin to the non-human parts of Morgott and Mohg. Morgott has a big tail sorta like one of the incantations, and Mohg has wings, similar to one of the incantations the crucible knights also use.
@@jankbunky4279 It would certainly fit in with the theory that the Omen are an evolved form of humanity forged in the Crucible. Both Morgott and Mohg were born to Godfrey, the Elden Lord with the closest ties to the Crucible, but the Greater Will detested the Omen thanks to their connection to the original god(s?) of The Lands Between.
Out of curiosity where was it implied that the magma wyrms we crucible knights? To me it's implied that Crucible knights have dragon-like incantations because of the nature of the Crucible, not because they were pursuing becoming dragons. The Crucible is primordial, before even the Erdtree, representing amalgam of features as the a form of life. These features that are now distinct to species (horns, tails, wings, throat sacks, branches, etc.) I think you might be confusing the Crucible knights with the Tree Sentinels, which split off into Draconic Tree Sentinels when they realized the power of dragons (after the dragons attacked Lyndell). But maybe they're related.
I love these lore focused videos of yours and how you often integrate it by bringing up coding and small or hidden features to strengthen your argument. Keep it up
The whole “story” of transforming into a elevated being seems to be extremely sad and frequent in FromS games, from Ds1 to Bloodborne, Ds3, Sekiro and now Elden Ring we see a lot of sceneries like that, even Godrick is a good example somehow. There’s a lot of majestic beings may it be the great old ones or Dragons, there’s always some folks that dream of a higher existence with a greater purpose of life, like longing to become a Dragon, a majestic yet untouched being that is visibly on a higher plane, to a point where a lot of Factions want to pursue the Goal to become said entity by enduring great pain, loss and suffering but still ending up being pitiful waste. I think that miyazaki kind of wants to tell that there’s a strict line between “us” and elevated beings, if you’re not born a Dragon, you’re not meant to be one, try it and you will end up as a shell of something in between.
that sounds like bio determinism the idea that your fate is decided by your genes, its a defeatist philosophy, logically speaking why would humans be unable to transform into dragons when magic can turn humans into chaos warped demons and abyss monsters? it almost sounds like the fox and the sour grapes, stop throwing shades at people who are trying to overcomes their weakness its like telling the guy who is trying to invent the plane that humans will never fly why even do that
"If you are not born a dragon, you're not meant to be one, try it and you will end up as a shell of something in between" Its a great phrase, and at the same it feels sadly aplyable to other things in live too, hm
@@DM-Oz its the same thing they told the wright brothers that humans weren't born with wings so they will never fly, oh wait they invented the plane ddn't they, this is the same bs they said about man walking on the moon and many other great discoveries its the horrible self-defeating ideology of fatalism that you would think people should have learned by now not to nay-say trailblazers but i guess since from tends to make fatalist games, but then again gideon tells you that you can't even become a elden lord and a man cannot beat a god, so they also seem to not like self-defeating naysayer either
@@colorpg152 That's not the same thing though. The examples you provided are people who took the time, care, and patience to learn something new in the field of science and engineering to get what they want without fundamentally changing who they were. The characters in Soulsbourne games would NEVER be satisfied with airplanes and rocketships. They want to BECOME things those things. To ascend. They are not satisfied with having to comfront what they think are limitations and find workarounds for that (technology.)
wow. I designed my prophet character with a blindfold in the character customization, so I never noticed the change of the eyes. that's awesome. I want to be wyrm.
Man I hope we get some wildly modified animations and movesets/transformations for Elden Ring like bloodborne got to have. Even if it was just a simple "hold this weapon and equip this rune" type deal, I'd love to see a more grotesque and realized dragonkin transformation, and maybe an Omen one, or some outer god shit.
Omen, for me. Dragon transformations have, in my opinion, been thoroughly explored through Dark Souls. The Omen are something new. Outer gods should probably be off the table for the time being
@@iggytheincubus dragons are not thoroughly explored. Bloodborne explored the idea of completley different inhuman animations and movesets. Having a transformation that turned you into a mini-dragonkin would be cool as hell
I think the Dragonkin Soldiers are my favorite repeated bosses in the game. The first one I saw was underground just past the entrance in the Mistwood, it killed me many times before I decided I'd come back. Ended up fighting the one that uses Ice lightning then coming back for revenge. Such a cool design, when that one pulled out the blue Bloodborne lightning it floored me.
I would like an NPC in a Fromsoft game who's goal is to become something even greater, even godlier then gods and dragons. He would progress with his research the more we meet him and he would likely interact with other NPC's who are remotely smart and can help him. At the end, in one of the final locations, after clearing it, we can come back to one of the bosses arena's just to find our friend there, turned into a holy amalgamation of dragon and something angel-like, and becoming a secret boss. After defeating him we would get a quest item which we then can use in the first location we met him to recieve a powerfull spell which would act like a dragon stone from Dark Souls, but will turn us into something similar to him, with same kind of abilities. In the end, he would lose his sanity by becoming what he always wanted to achieve, with a tbought what he probably will not meet a sussec on the first try and go mad, he saved this item to give us, only for us to become a better version of what he wanted to be, somethin greater. After that, we would unlock a new ending where we would give this kind of ascension gift to the rest of the world, like Ranni's ending.
Well, Hawkwood wanted to become a dragon. You can even fight him in Abyss Watchers' arena, and if you die, he will steal your dragonstone. Not exactly the same thing you imagined, but still.
I didn't know much about the dragonkin or the magma wyrms, as I hadn't read many descriptions related to them, but this was really insightful and interesting. I really like how Miyazaki brings familiar concepts through the games, and always the unique and fascinating ones too.
The magma wrym's are the coolest rendition of this dragon ascension depicted in Fromsoft's games. They're the closest we've actually seen to Miyazaki actually allowing some humans in the lore to be as close to a dragon as they probably can get. Plus they look cool as shit.
combine the magma wyrm with whatever created the dragonkin soldiers and learn dragon incantations then you will have wings lightning and look like a dragon
I can't wait for the day we are able to fight a true ascended form of man and dragon in these games. Something that has achieved that perfection. And I hope it obliterates us over and over until we find what can bring it down.
Priscilla. She was the only time a successful fusion of human and dragon had ever come into existence. And yet, due to her nature, she was hated by all and considered, in her own soul's description, to be the "antithesis of all life"; something worthy only of death in the eyes of the world, for she represented something the world could not fathom, nor control. She was scared and ashamed and wanted nothing more than to be allowed the privilege to remain alive. And you killed her for no reason, after going out of your way to find her in a hidden pocket-dimension inside a painting world, after she begged you to just leave and never come back. She fought you reluctantly and in self-defence because she just wanted to be left alone.
@@tiredtortoise3396 I would hope there are a few stages inbetween the human and the Wyrm. Crawling though the rest of the game would be funny though.^^
@@riemaennchen That reminds me of a joke idea I heard of saying 'yes' to Rykard and turning the rest of the game into a boss rush with you playing as the big snake :D
Some people say that becoming a magma wyrm seems to be a success due to their strength, but dragons are meant to be majestic and beautiful, godlike even. The wyrms are but brutish beasts, spewing magma rather than breathing fire, crawling on the ground rather than flying through the sky, a mere mockery of what a true dragon is. They may have become powerful, but they’re pitiful in comparison to what they aspired to become.
If you think about it even for a moment you realise this is a theme across pretty much all of Dark Souls + Elden Ring. In DS3 the world is crumbling and tearing itself apart because the Age of Fire keeps getting perpetuated. Elden Ring has a similar theme in that the Erdtree is trying to perpetuate the current order, causing things to go wrong, while other forces like Ranni or the Death Prince are trying to invoke change (From what I understand, I haven't actually finished Elden Ring yet). This can also tie into the idea of immortality being bad. Unless something is created with immortality (aka the dragons), immortality is a wholly unnatural, unchanging state.
Really like the origin story of the magma wyrms, as it sounds like a blending of the Norse story about Fafnir, a dwarf whose greed for gold turned him into a dragon, and the Judeo-Christian story of the Fall, how the serpent was cursed to writhe upon the ground for causing paradise lost.
What do you make of the Draconic Tree Sentinels? In games lore reveals "After the great ancient dragon Gransax attacked, the sentinels had an epiphany. The only way to truly protect the Erdtree was to become dragons themselves." My presumption is that, unlike other attempts to integrate or infuse the power of a dragon into a mortal body - the Sentinels essentially forged their armor with fragments of the petrified Gransax. Given the "Bolt of Gransax" comes with the weapon skill Ancient Lightning Spear and the Draconic Sentinel uses a lot of lightning-based abilities - I wonder if that is a tacit association that they're wielding a malformed variant of Gransax's own draconic power. It is interesting how the Draconic Sentinels fit into the traditional themes and representation of dragons and draconic lore in the games. They essentially circumvent the profanity (stark contrast to Godfrey whose grafting of the dragon head was portrayed as something grotesque) against the Golden Order by infusing their armor with dragon scales rather than their corporeal body.
Man, the Magma Wyrms got lucky. At least they are not horribly misshapen and seem to be fully functional organisms. Plus they seem to enjoy a long lifespan unlike the dragonkin who are said to have died shortly after their creation.
You could also read the "humans trying to turn into dragons and failing" motif as a metaphor for the hopeless pursuit of perfection. Bonus: One could argue that even if you manage to become a full dragon, this parallel still holds because we know that dragons can be killed by outside forces. They're not invincible, ie. not perfect.
