I genuinely dislike how people treat Umar. That man is legitimately insane and racist. None of his rhetoric would result in a world that serves us. But he’s entertaining so why take him seriously? smh I hate this shit so much
this is how most black people on social media are but the second a white person would fix they mouth to say something they would be racist the standard is crazy
I don’t agree with Umar.. but people fr hold Em to that regard - most of the time they don’t even listen to Hip Hop like that - but state him as the best rapper of all time.
@@firstlast9846we all know they don’t listen to rap like that if they think he’s undisputed goat, but to turn around and act like he isn’t nice because a bunch of racists think he’s the best is lame af.
@@aubreyyoung4610 How is he limited? He influenced many rappers such as 50 cent, Kendrick Lamar, J.Cole, Big Sean, and more. He may not be as big as of now. But limited to rap culture? nah my friend.
@@MrOfficialEMAN 50 was already out before he signed with Eminem, Cole's biggest influence is Nas, Kendrick's is Pac. Like they've done songs and whole albums dedicated to their heroes.,and neither of them got famous rapping like Eminem. Neither does Big Sean. You know who raps like Eminem? Hopsin, Joyner Lucas, Daz, Logic, Tom McDonald, NF, Token, a number of other (some would say corny) Internet rappers.
@@aubreyyoung4610 Youre right, 50 was already out. But even 50 HIMSELF said that Eminem would outbattle any rapper (Eminem eventually found him). Every artist i mentioned, Eminem was part of their influence, so its impact on rap culture again its not limited. Yes the artists you mentioned definitely sound like him Logic, Joyner, NF etc. i dont disagree on that. But still not limited to rap culture lol. The dude has literally the word "stan" in the Websters dictionary. Grammys, Rock N Roll hall of Fame. Performing in the SuperBowl. I would say for Hip-Hop fans if theyre fans for Top 50 to Top 100, Eminem is definitely on the list.
*I’ve always felt* - and bare with me - that Eminem has the Elvis effect.. immeasurably talented and *for sure* one of the best to ever do it, however, just like Elvis - he is in a predominantly Black music space - and people jump to someone who’s white as “The Greatest of All Time” while ignoring an entire genre. People love to watch what may be a minority in a specific scene succeed - it’s that underdog thing 🤷🏾♂️ that’s the best explanation I can give.
Agreed, eg any time there’s a white man dancing to afrobeats for example you see it being lauded and viral. Now while i like seeing cultural diversity I think eminem benefits from this and it’s led to an inflated status. But everyone who knows him and works with him says what a great person he is.
But why doesn’t that apply to other white rappers? I’d see your point if there was a bunch of white rappers that had the same sales as em but they don’t
@bascho1490 everyone loves to hype Jack Harlow, they gassed up Macklemore, they loved Post Malone.. all had huge levels of buzz because they were white people in a predominantly black culture. They love to see an underdog - Em’s from a time where rappers sold better before streaming was a thing too.
People just like to talk. Umar one of those people. If i’m the greatest sushi maker, and i’m a black man, i’m still the greatest sushi maker. I don’t gotta be japanese to be that. 1:48 also em has donated so much money to POC dominated areas, specifically Detroit (SHAWN!!!) to help those in need. Yeat bought like an entire cotton candy shops supply that was own by a Black woman iirc, and A$AP Yams before he passed brought up so many people and has done a lot for AWGE/A$AP Mob to this day. So what the hell is his point? I don’t see Youngboy or Carti or JID do anything like that, so should we stop supporting them? No, because they made Magnolia, Ed Edd n Eddy and Ryte Nite respectively.
You inadvertently admitted you don’t pay attention to what black artists are doing for their communities and you’d rather focus on what Eminem is doing. Not only that but you’d never be the best sushi maker because that literally requires generations and generations of experience. You have to embrace Japanese culture for most of your life. Eminem lacks the experience to be the best. He’s missing an important element in hip hop as well, knowledge itself. Knowledge itself requires you to be black or brown
@maxwellsamuel3255 I didn’t admit to shit. I definitely know what my own people are doing in their communities. I brought up Em, Yeat and Yams’ contributions because Umar made a dumbass point that not only can be reflected back onto him, but had nothing with the original discussion. HENCE WHY I HAD THE TIMECODE RIGHT THERE. I’m not focused on SHIT Eminem is doing, I’m knowledgeable on shit and was raised right to not open my mouth unless I know what the fuck i’m talking about. And I do. I’m sure YB probably has done like a toy or turkey drive some time ago, but Em quite literally has a CHARITY ORGANIZATION. Just cause i know that doesn’t mean i’m worried about the “white man” or “i’m focused on eminem rather than black artist” it means i know what i’m talking about. I don’t even listen to bro like that. The last album i’ve heard from him was Kamikaze back when it dropped. Also, you just proved my point without realizing it dummy. You said that I couldn’t be the best sushi chef because i need generations of experience and need to embrace Japanese culture. Em has all of that. Em doesn’t lack experience or knowledge because he’s been in the game for 30 YEARS and has grew up in a predominantly black community, which is why he’s always been grateful and recognizes the black people who got him to where is (i.e. Proof or Dre) You don’t need to be black to be knowledgeable in ANYTHING, let alone rap.
@@arikikimei wanted to type up a comment on this + you right. rap is a piece of hip-hop culture which is so many things. have pride about that, this is inconsequential.
@@maxwellsamuel3255nah you right, in that case all of the shit repeat-rappers that call themselves the ‘GOAT’ on every song/album title are the best ever because they said so! Turns out there’s actually like 50 goat rappers! Weird, right?
A white Canadian man is said to have invented basketball, so that mean we disqualifying Michael Jordan from the GOAT discussion cause he not a white Canadian ? 😂
Michael Jordan changed the game of basketball. He has a cultural impact on the game and many emulated his game to become amazing. Eminem doesn't have that as far as rap is concerned. The guys he has influenced have reached nowhere near his success, so it's not the same.
@@aubreyyoung4610doesn't matter. Jordan is participating in a white sport. He can never be the best. He is a guest in the sport. That is Umar's stupid logic.
@@aubreyyoung4610Yes it does, and it further proves how hypocritical a lot of us black people can be. Race and talent never fall in line with each other. It's stupid. Music is for everyone
That’s cap, Drake’s biggest superpower is that he’s so relatable. Think about every time he drops music everyone uses his lyrics for captions. That’s men and women.
@@Jay-jw4yi Being very quotable is not equal to being relatable. Sometimes he's relatable, most times he's talking about things from the point of view of someone living lavish.
@@Prolificx yes but if the lyrics people are quoting are specifically about relationships/trust issues/heartbreak then that makes him relatable to the masses. That’s literally the reason why Drake is so popular.
hes not the goat, but the eminem show is without bias a landmark in music in all aspects, super consistent tracklist, a lot of dre and ems best hands on production, a lot of ems best and some of his biggest songs, plus as a cohesive listen its basically a movie, and its influence on atmosphere building on a rap project is debatably huge
@@GDSprodify as a fan of ready to die the eminem show is still a better made album than ready to die + theres no weird asmr skit of him getting his dick sucked, + big is dead
@@jimmy_butlereveryones entitled to their opinion even if its wrong entirely lmao, but if u appreciated eminem or creativity at all, youd understand why its not only his best and best produced album but also just a objectively solid 2000s rap album in general
Em has a lot of technical rapping skill while lacking consistent skill regarding the musicality and content of his work, a lot of what he releases comes across as corny through his choice of subject matter and voice tonality.
@@Anom990 but that's subjective tho because millions of people disagree with that, it comes down to your own preferences. you say he comes across as corny i say he just has fun with his music.
As a Puerto Rican man I miss when I was a child and completely blind to race. My mom never even told me anything about black or white as a child and I grew up thinking people just look different, my mom looks white and my dad looks black however they’re both ethnically Puerto Rican, and if you knew about race you’d know being Latino is not considered a race but it is an ethnicity so it comes down to how you look for race, as a tan man this has always been such a confusing issue. It wasn’t until I went to school and entered society as a 5 year old that ethnicity became a thing. Sometimes ignorance really is bliss.
I value more an opinion from Black Thought, Rakim, Mos Def, Andre 3000, WTC, Dr. Dre, Busta Rhymes, Nas etc. etc., over anyone else’s. In my opinion, those are the opinions that should matter the most, period.
For everyone in the comments.....the fans do not care. As a Nîgga myself, I thought like Umar and just kept Em at the bottom of the TOP 5. But dog....LISTEN TO THIS MAN RAP. It's not about just content, and Em even knows that. So he strives to be the greatest TECHNICAL rapper ever, and he's the greatest at that. Fuck white supremacy.
I would argue JID and Kendrick are more technical than Eminem, Eminem just rhymes words with dumb shit, JID or Kendrick have full on formatted verses that actually make sense and sound good. If we are being honest, most of Eminem verses are very samey, sound sonically cringe, and aren’t that meaningful
this is hard to say bc rap is one of the few genres that actually takes skill in terms of lyrical composition. i understand what umar is saying and it’s difficult to pick just one side with this conversation especially when the part abt black culture always being used for white people to get bigger comes up. bc on one side, i want all of us to be able to not care abt something like this but on the other side, no other group is as willing to accept us as we are with them. and that might just be an african american thing bc we don’t really know what we are. we can’t really track our culture back like other races. we’re like a developing child not being able to navigate through a room of adults
We certainly can trace our roots back. I can trace mine back 7 generations in this country, when many other people no matter their color can do that. Black Americans need to stop all this "we don't know where we come from" talk. We come from America.
@@aubreyyoung4610 exactly. you were only able to trace back within this country… i meant tracing it back to Africa and even if you do, you’re gonna be mixed with several different african cultures so like i was saying, we don’t have one distinctive culture we can attatch ourselves to besides American which was the result of us being stripped of our original culture. all cultures have existed for thousands of years except African American (not the same as African) so naturally, like a child, we get excited abt the adults (other races) acknowledging us.
@@ohnojojo19 wrong. Jamaicans don't identify as African. Haitians don't identify as African. Why do I have to I dentist as African? I have a culture, it's Black American. If you'd like to identify as African, go for it. But I have no problem, just like Jamaicans and Haitians have no problem, identifying with our own built culture.
Not sure about that because I haven't heard a soul say Serena Williams is not the GOAT, or Tiger Woods is not the GOAT or even Mohamed Ali and Tyson, I'm even certain if someone said it publicly most likely would get shot, so not sure about neither said willing to accept the other
@@borislavpopov2548 those are sports though. they have statistics to prove their skill. if Serena won a match, can't nobody say "you didn't win that match" but someone could drop a multi platinum record and i could say ts is trash and it would be completely valid
If we follow umars logic rap and hip-hop should be exclusively black American. No foreigners, no POCs, then we can take it further and say only black Americans from impoverished areas and if we REALLY want to take it to the extreme only black Americans from impoverished areas in Brooklyn and queens.
What aspect of his logic suggests only poor black Americans should be allowed to participate in rap? I'm pretty sure he thinks everyone can participate in rap, but isn't convinced a guy like Eminem can be the greatest rapper ever
@MyPimpinAfro14 that's what you got outta my comment? Do you see the pattern I followed to get to the ultimate point of if we are going to segregate hip-hop to only the people who started it, let's follow that to the ultimate conclusion. The origins of hip-hop in America go back to the late 70s in impoverished black New York neighborhoods. this is a thought experiment.
@@DevonRucker honestly no I don't see the pattern you are making because Umar isn't saying hip-hop should be black American participants. I understand what you are saying but The argument you are trying to make only makes sense if he is calling for the segregation and subsequent exclusion of white ppl but he's not.
@@ShawnCeeLIVEHip-Hop is Black American culture/artform my dude . Everyone else came later. Black folks we share everything with everyone else and it's rare that it's reciprocated. The Black American is arguably the most emulated people/group on the planet currently. Like the legendary comedian Paul Mooney once on the Chappelle Show ..... "Everybody wanna be a N!&&@ , but don't nobody wannabe a N!&&@".
@@BlackMusicGenrewhat makes hip hop specifically black American culture? The talkin points in rap aren’t specific to a race except for police brutality mostly, Kendrick and j cole are woke rappers but are they any more of a rapper than lil wayne, juice wrld, tupac because they don’t specifically make albums damn near bout black ppl?
Eminem has surpassed his peers years ago. He's in another lane and I can't believe there's people out there who can't see past his race. He's one of the greatest to ever grace the mic and it's an insult to the rap game to say that he is not a phenomenal rapper. People who grew up with rappers like Em and Weezy know that their status as GOAT's are solidified.
Jay Z, Nas, PAC, Biggie and DMX are much better than Eminem. Eminem is better than your above average white rapper, but it doesn’t mean he one of the greatest!!
Em is literally only popular/known because he’s white. Ppl reacting to Black Thought’s goated freestyle talking bout “ive never heard of this guy” lol gtfo
@@jeffwilliams2828or maybe he isn’t as brash or playful with his music, same can be said for Aesop rock, prob one of the best lyricists of all time, but he just don’t make a bop like em
Tbh I don’t think there is a “GOAT” anymore. Em at his peak was one of the greatest and his storytelling was amazing. But these days there are just way too many rappers, with different styles, flows, it’s honestly hard to keep up with it all. I once considered Eminem to be the greatest to ever do it but these days saying a lot of syllables and doing it fast ain’t gonna cut it anymore. He’ll always a fave for me though. His early work is still untouchable to me.
While there are too many rappers we are still waiting for Em level of skill to pop up again, (given quad-entedres and extended metaphors). I also like how Em tries to bring more notice to really good newer rappers by collaborating with them.
They are there but not mainstream. We’ve not heard anyone rhyming entire sentences or having 5 meanings in one sentence in recent times, and a lot of those who are capable but mainstream dumb it way way down to be there (j cole rhyming yes men with contest him and having heaps of filler syllables on false prophets)
I'll never understand how seeing someone do better for themselves/become successful is perceived as undeserved. I get how saturated and overrated rappers like jack harlow/megan thee stallion are, but to genuinely feel like hours and time a person put into their art isn't deserved because it doesn't fit your standards or taste is such an entitled stance to carry imo. and the same people trying to gatekeep cultures are a walking contradiction claiming equal rights... its weird like just enjoy the music?
No one is trying to drag Em because he is successful, they are saying that he isn't the greatest to ever do it because a massive amount of his fans don't/didn't fuck with hip-hop outside of until it came in an Anglo package. This is the truth I'm white, I was fucking with hip-hop before Em but the jump on so many middle-class to upper-middle class white kids who don't give to craps about hip-hop outside of that presentation and definitely don't fuck with the black cultural roots of it in an honest way.
i get the point you’re trying to make it just feels like projecting jealousy at the end of the convo though. em is far from my fav rapper but it’s not like he controls who his music appeals to and who listens.. and being middle or upper middle class shouldn’t even be a convo in music. it’s art? name any mainstream artist pushing the needle for black excellence currently? jid and killer mike is the closest we’ve gotten aside from the underground keeping it alive ofc. our tragic history should be used to spread love not gatekeep and be blatantly racist for shit no one walking around today went through first hand.
I’m only 6 minutes into the video at this point but I wanted to say this. Regardless of how you might feel about Eminem and his music personally, for what most people use as the criteria to determine who is the goat, he checks all of the boxes. Putting the subject matter aside, he is considered a skillful lyricist by most of his contemporaries and there are dozens of videos online of other rappers including the likes of Kanye, Wayne, 50 Cent, Dr Dre, Kendrick Lamar etc. He undeniably has had a huge impact on Hip Hop. Most people agree that he has at least 3 classic albums. He has been in the game for nearly 3 decades and still does huge numbers and his pen game is still very high caliber so he has longevity. When it comes to sales there are few who compare to Eminem’s numbers. He has some of the most acclaimed storytelling songs. He has multiple flows and rhyme patterns that he switches frequently within a song. Obviously Eminem has some misses with his beat selections and his hooks but he also has several songs with great beat selections and hooks and I don’t think a weak hook game should disqualify them from the best rapper conversation but I did want to mention it. I am not saying that everyone should agree that he is the greatest rapper of all time but he definitely will always be in that conversation rightfully and being white is kind of irrelevant when we are talking about pure ability to rap. Obviously the topic is subjective but Eminem meets all of the generally agreed upon criteria so it’s always weird when people immediately try to dismiss him. You don’t have to enjoy a rapper personally to acknowledge they have cemented their legacy as a great. Hope this makes sense.
@@aubreyyoung4610 When numerous of the most prolific rappers of our generation credit Eminem as one of their influences and you can hear it in their music, that is directly impacting the culture. Kendrick Lamar, J Cole, Tyler the Creator, and many more talk about how he influenced them and inspired a lot of their music. This is not even mentioning how Eminem brought rap and hip hop to a much wider audience and helped propel its global popularity. As a matter of fact, Eminem’s whiteness is what made him appeal to some of those within that wider audience whether intentional or not and whether that consciously or not it’s still indisputable. Impact doesn’t just relate to black culture hip hop is worldwide and everyone can appreciate the art
@@Itachi-uq2mu kendrick's and coles biggest influences are Pac and Nas. Sure, they like Eminem, but they sound nothing like him and dont rap about the same topics. Only other white rappers and Hopsin rap like Eminem. And yes, cultural impact is very important. Em is very talented but he's never really moved the culture like that. Everyone participates in hip hop, but it is still very much rooted in Black culture. If you don't move the culture, you can't be #1.
@@ShawnCeeLIVE What?! They're both american rappers, rapping with the same language, their careers are at the same times and both of them are in the same industry.
what does dr umar actually do? i mean, other than begging for money on instagram, complaining about interracial relationships, and being a living meme, what purpose does he actually serve?
He bitches about interracial relationships? God that's so dumb. I can't stand people that actually rag on people's consensual relationship choices. Despite whatever happened to your race in the past every individual isn't obligated to keep their race going, they're not obligated to do anything
All his music isn’t bad tho not even most. Pre encore he dropped classics and I still play music from this era, his consistency fell off for a while after that but he’s still made some good albums since like recovery and mmlp2 and most of MTBMB imo, oh and the bad meets evil album too, as well as bs like revival and encore
Ima have to do more research on this as a white person a lot of this stuff don’t make sense to me and the idea of “spectating things and not letting certain races in” seems like a bad idea if you look at history but I have a feeling that’s not what you mean but idk it just don’t make sense to me so like I said ima have to research it more to fully understand
Tbh Em isn’t genre breaking like Biggie, PAC, Rakeim, MC Light, Kanye, LL Cool J, Queen Latifah n more. Thing about HipHop/Rap is that most people don’t even consider legends of the past n how big of an impact they played on the future of that genre.
Why wouldn't EM genre breaking? You can actually say there's Hip Hop before Eminem and after him. Is he the most influential or impactful? No but he's footprint in the genre is clear
He is, Eminem has not only heavily influenced the styles of people that are already in modern goat conversations but has even influenced some of the biggest R&B acts of the early 2000s and most people don't even know this.
Eminem was very good though. I think people bring in his more current music and taint their views of him. He just old now like listening to ice cube after 2003 (Em not in my top 5, but I’m not mad at anyone saying he is though)
Me personally, I don't believe Eminem is the GOAT. I do f with his music though. Personally, though, I hate the gatekeeping. Just stop, people should be allowed to enjoy and make the art that they resonate with. And people should be allowed to resonate with what they want. At least Eminem doesn't act like he's the GOAT and has acknowledged the fact that he may have had an advantage because he's white. We have loads of black rappers today that don't care about the culture and are just as lukewarm as Jack Harlow (no offence Jack).
@@aubreyyoung4610 some people do have value to add though even if they’re not from the culture. You can’t say that Eminem simply took from and didn’t add anything
Well said! Gatekeeping at this point is backwards because the reality is that our species is going to continue to mix with one another, preserving culture and acknowledging each other's differences is completely fine and welcomed, we are different and there's nothing wrong with that.
@@missaliciaxxxx not saying Eminem is a bad rapper, because clearly he is one of the greatest. But if he never rapped a bar in his life, hip hop would probably sound pretty much the same. Aside from all the RU-vid rappers who think rapping fast means rapping good. They can all retire right now.
I think Umar is just talking about Black people creating Hip-Hop... he's not associating all the ignorance and buffoonery of commercial "mainstream" rap (spinning the block, whipping the pot, etc) with all black people
this is the best dialogue i’ve heard from Shawn Cee. i just read this transcript, words moved fluently and i had no issue with comprehending. lil mabu and weird ass fivio platforming him and other black people in the video (who aren’t getting paid) championing lil mabu. i would want a brief video for that but it’s so icky to watch.
Idk why Shawn keeps implying that jack harlow has been so much more successful than Big Sean has. Big Sean has had a way more successful career numbers wise than Harlow has. Sure, Jack's more in the public eyes now, but Big Sean was doing bigger numbers at the peak of his relevancy than jack harlow ever has. That being said jack harlow definitely wouldn't be famous if he wasn't white
8:02 Consistency Is a fair point Shawn but you can't use lack of skill set as your point. If one Is to say Eminem lack skills on the mic It's because they don't listen or It flies over their head. Give me examples of "annoying staccato flow" or idk "too many dots In the discography" I can take my bias aside for actual points with merit. But his capabilities? fuck outta here. He would tie or murder anyone idc if you throw Nas, Jay-Z, Kendrick whoever you think would fuck his skillset. They'd tie or be beat.
TBF. I think he met that EMs high level of skill is matched with the quality of music he puts out. So he's saying that he expects an MC as skilled as Em to put out better music.
Here is the simple, mature answer. You personally are allowed to have anyone as your best rapper, for whatever reason. If you get emotional or upset that someone else has someone different for whatever reason, you are a child. This conversation is not only pointless and played out, but counterproductive because you will never be able to dictact what others deem the best. This is one of those live and let live situations. There are plenty more things to get this passionate about. Musical tier lists aren't one of those things. lol And for valid and invalid reaasons, people get hyper emotional about the race elecment, on both sides. It gets so surface level, yet people are so certain they have it figured out with these surface level takes. Lets be real, if we want to get really surface level with it, a Jack Harlow, or and Eminem is always going to get more hype, even if putting out mid stuff, because this country is mostly white. It really comes down to that. Not saying its right, but people are going to connect moreso with people who look like them. Of course companies will find those artists more lucrative, simply because they pander to a bigger audience by default. If this country was flipped and black people were the majority, a Jack Harlow would never exist, and Eminem would just be a really good rapper that probably doesn't come close to any top 10 lists. Now, the record companies expoiting the genre and using white artists to do so is a whole different arguement. But its no mystery as to why a white artists may get more attention, even if they aren't as talented.
Man’s just casually said “nah em wont get that treatment bcuz he’s not the best” ….. even tho mac miller got that treatment and no one was calling him the best before death 😂
@@ayyyyMan then you didn’t see nor do you know any of his fans when he died. My whole twitter TL at the time was filled with “Rip Mac, he was really the goat when you think. So versatile”. Then when his posthumous album went number 1 they were off the chain😂. I swear Em just gets unnecessary hate by racist blacks who’s mad he connects more to a broader audience (whites) which in result makes him the highest selling rapper …. Which by default puts him in the goat convo whether you and dude in the video like it or not.
The idea that hip hop is African is ridiculous. The idea that people are pretending not to understand what it means to say hip hop is black culture and similar to how other art forma are apecific to other ethnic groups is ridiculous. Also, Black American culture being wide open to everyone (including other black groups) is ridiculous. Other people gatekeep their culture, there's a region a Black American can't be a goat Dancehall or Afro eats artists.
@@waynewayne8419 Whatever the reason may be, Black Americans don't gatekeep from other people, non-black groups or other non-black groups. You have Turkish funk music, Ethiopian Jazz, Bossa Nova (a latin jazz), people in the UK constantly making r&b with weird accents or trying to copy our accents and acting like mockeries of us, but we don't gatekeep it. The point is, we should gatekeep like they do.
I'm a white rapper/musician, but my style of music has tons of influences and I honestly don't want to be boxed into one genre. I can't imagine rapping forever just as much as I can't imagine not rapping ever again.
8:42 I love Shawn man. I know he be silly as hell but his analysis is pretty much always on point. Though I will say the issue with black people not retaining the rights or benefiting economically off of the things they create feels more like an economic issue than a culture issue. That is to say I don't think that we would necessarily benefit from socially segregating our culture from other people, but instead we should try to form an economic system that benefits anyone who works to create something. This is absolutely my socialist leanings showing, but I believe everyone should be compensated for the things they create. And in my humble opinion sequestering things along racial lines wouldn't necessarily fix the issue that we all seem to recognize. Also I love Shawn's take that he would like to be more welcoming but he also understands why some people might not be at this point. As I said earlier I believe there are ways to address these issues that don't necessarily rely on closing off parts of our culture but I agree with Shawn that people kind of have to come to that in their own time.
Shawn saying Eminem “lacks skill set” is just bias, plain and simple. Even people that hate his music acknowledges the dude is one of the best at actually rapping. Tf out of here lmao
Dr Umar's point only works with the context that we are currently living in a world where being a white rapper makes you easier to sell. so it's an advantage in terms of both marketing and exposure. In a world with a bias towards whiteness, white people being called "the best" at anything should be side eyed. Saying no one can be good at another culture's professions _period_ tho, is just factually incorrect. Him and his 5 PHD's should know that. Tiger woods and Golf. Serena and Tennis. Africans doing European shit n they excel in it. You can be good at something if u practice. and in a world where things were dead equal, there probably could be some white rappers in the top 5 conversation. probably wouldn't be em but there _would_ be white ppl.
Eminem made hip hop marketable to middle America. He isn’t finna pass Tupac Biggie Jay Z Twista Nas Common Kanye Rakim DMX Jadakiss Busta Snoop LL Cool J Missy in goat status just because he can technically rap fast or sold a lot records.
I am the worst thing since Elvis to do black music so selfishly, and use it to make myself wealthy, hey! there's a concept that works 20 million other white rappers emerge
If that’s the case we gotta open up every conversation….basketball the sport was created in 1892 and in 2023 black people dominate the sport so do that means black people in the sport of basketball can’t be the best????? If we gon talk about it open up every conversation then🤷🏾♂️💯
Sports is something that can be measured by stats. Art is something entirely different. HipHop is ROOTED in Black struggle and experience, just like Reggae, Soul, Jazz and many other musical cultural forms. Eminem does not connect with Black People and that’s factual
I heavily disagree with Umar, because if we use his logic then people like Tiger Woods could never be the goat of Golf, Ali couldn’t be the goat of Boxing, Jackie Robinson couldn’t be the goat of Baseball, and Denzel, Morgan Freeman, or any other Black person can’t be the goat of acting. You also can’t just section off something as “black culture” or “white culture”.
I wouldn’t call him the best of all time and it’s not because he’s white either i just prefer other people but he’s definitely top 10 if not at least top 15
It’s one man’s opinion. It’s the easiest thing in the world to respect it and carry on. The response to this has been insane. Headlines in Rolling Stone and Billboard etc and I think that says something
This shit is so divisive and messy, you gonna take away black accomplishments in basketball because black people didn't invent basketball, or the accomplishments and talents of Chuck Berry and Muddy Waters because they didn't invent the electric guitar? Obviously, there is disrespectful/inauthentic ways to monetize culture through music.
@@yungphat596 name em and pls don’t be biased cuz most of y’all’s fav he’s already rapped with or admitted that they don’t wanna do features with him for that reason
Honestly bro u needa podcast of some kind so we can keep conversations going without pauses to dissect each and every interesting thing. Also It feels much better to sum shit up in the end imo then to pause every 2 minutes to highlight a single comment. Not saying it prevents me from watching but it definitely is something i tend to have to skip more times than not cus after a points proven or said its like we have analogies and explanations to analogies for every pin point. For me it only causes subjects to stretch from as small as 6 minutes to over 30 minutes which jus isn’t necessary cus not everyone is going to to check in to your pov and even if they do, probably only a handful of em will take something home with them. Like if we’re gon talk lets make it an actual discussion as supposed to a reactors discussion with other reactors over a clip. If it were a few pauses it’d probably be no big deal but this is too much
No Umar, you would not be the best anything of Palestinian culture because you wouldn’t be the best at anything period. Hip Hop started in New York, the Bronx, so I guess rappers from anywhere else are null and void? Nas is from Brooklyn, so he’s out of the question? It was African-(American)s, Puerto Ricans, and Jamaicans founding Hip Hop… DJ Kool Herc - a JAMAICAN IMMIGRANT - is credited with making the first rap song. Where do Africans take hold here? Just tryna use Umars same logic to debunk his intellectual dishonesty, but I’m surprised Shawn is going down this rabbit hole.
No fr tho, when Em passes it is going to be a super sad day and if he hasn't already been salified as the BEST to ever to it.. he will when he passes and that's super sad. We need to give them their flowers while they are here man.
I don’t think Eminem considers himself the best. His word play and lyricism is off the charts. But he’s not always the greatest song writer to be honest. You can’t really nod your head and cruise down the street and vibe to Eminem, unless you’re really mad at your mom or girlfriend lol.
@@questlazy122 Prove that all 20 people agree with that last statement instead of something you said earlier in your comment… Oh wait… you can’t. It seems you’re starting off the New Year with ignorance. I hope you fix that.
The GOAT discussion is aĺways gonna be subjective but Nas, Rakim, KRS-One, Kòol G Rap, Chuck D, LL, Kane, Tupac, Biggie, Guru, Black Thought, Big Pun, Big L, Eminem, Kendrick, J. Cole, Cam'ron, Weezy, Mac Miller, 3 Stacks, DMX, Kanye, Scarface, Jadakiss, Prodigy, Ice Cube, Common, Jay-Z, Redman, Ghostface Killah, Mos Def, Royce Da 5'9, Pharaohe Monch, T.I., Travis Scott, Pusha T, Keith Murray and Snoop are names that immediately come to mind when the topic is brought up. I know many might disagree with some of these names immediately and feel someone is left out but makes the point how it is subjective to each individual"s taste or criteria.
I agree with this particular non objectivity. Remember, those folk decided mackelmore deserved a grammy kendrick lamar. They literally allow themselves over us in many ways even when its obvious they werent better eg beck over beyonce. So they been playing that game, why tf cant we? Sn i honestly dont feel eminem is the goat in hip hop or top five imo
Em gets love for what he can do with words, but what he decides to do with those words are trash! He kills his mother and girlfriend every other track, and the rest is goofy raps that lack substance. He’s talented but not even close to the best.
Honestly as a non-Black person, I understand it but that’s really depending how we’re defining rap/hip hop. I don’t think we should be defining MGK or Iggy Azalea music as hip hop. A culture is a group of people that share ideas, characteristics, etc. Some Black people will say Em resonates with them and overall hiphop, making him one of the best. Some will say he doesn’t the opposite
@@OneusXi the video is not about if Eminem is the best rapper or not. It’s about Umar saying he can’t, even though if he is, because he is white. To me he is not the best as well, he is in my top 10, but saying that he cant be the best cause of his skin colour is wild to me.
I’m just asking and I could be completely ignorant in this statement I’m not thing to hate, but I feel like it’s such a slippery slope , I don’t think white artists should have a monopoly over the hip hop industry and be the “top” without earning it , but to say they don’t have the right to it because they are white seems crazy? Put it this way, this all stems from Dr. Umar saying that the music most people listen to derives from African culture and popularized and taken advantage of by white men (I agree 100%) but what if some idiot comes and says the same thing about EVERY sport that was created by a WHITE male and then popularized by black men , (and I don’t mean not letting them participate in the segregated days) I mean from the jump a white invented basketball and football? But no one is going around saying that a black man can’t be the greatest , just a my thought though I could just be missing something and need informed !
Em’s my favorite but I don’t think he’s the GOAT.The reason Em isn’t the best rapper is because his projects fell off after 2004(arguably after relapse and recovery) and there are rappers that do things better than him and have more range than him.
Fr. I’m a huge Eminem fan but he does have for weaknesses. You can make a case against by just talking about his music. There is no reason to bring in race.
@@Matthew-xl5bcI agree to an extent. What eminem lacks is knowledge itself and that requires you to be black or brown. Knowledge itself is deeply embedded in the roots of hip hop
@@maxwellsamuel3255 I agree but I can’t expect a white person to understand the black experience when their not black. And personally I would have a black rappers speak on these racial issues than people who have never experienced them.
8:10 discography i can see but lack of skillset is crazy work tbh, eminems basically thr face of mainstrean lyricism(not the best but very high on the list, i think MF DOOM , Earl , Lupe Fiasco are objectively better )
18:02 I totally understand and agree that jack harlows impact is crazy and undeserved but is it more harmful than Meg the stallion rapping about her wap and that being the biggest song in the country for a time?
Umar is completely erasing how involved Puerto Ricans, Filipinos, and plenty of other cultures were in the creation of hip-hop culture. You don't have rap as a popular art form without those radio DJs, promoters, visual artists, producers, labels, etc.
They had 0 involvement, they saw what we were already doing, imitated us and reported on us. I don’t know why people feel the need to have a claim over our creations? That really needs to be investigated.
Incorrect, every element of hip hop was 100% created by Black Americans. Literally no one else helped in its creation. Plenty people helped in its spread when it was shown to be profitable, though.
@@raymonds7492Hip Hop is a movement. It’s an American movement that started in an American city. New York. Where Americans live. Anybody could take it up. And if you could cook then you could eat.
Em is not the best Kendrick is em will never b number 1 he can possible b n top 10 he not even top 5 but he is good and Mac Miller is better than em 🤷🏽♂️
@@Knucklejob from a culture stand point em music ain’t getting played at the cook out lol I love em but homies blast Mac b4 em n I like em but em ain’t hold up
@@sagathekawaiikillaLol y’all gotta stop that argument. “You don’t hear em music at a cookout” the world is so much bigger than a cookout or the club. You might not hear it get played but if he goes on tour and sells out then what? Are we still gonna use what the club plays when bro is selling out stadiums?
@@PraiseGod.FearMe it’s not about who actually getting played - I’m saying as someone who likes both Mac music is more fun and creative than em ~ ima die on that hill to em not beating Mac end of my point
@@sagathekawaiikillaI understand that your point but I don’t think that’s a valid reason to say that Mac is better then Em just because he gets played at “Cookouts”
Em isn’t the best because of skin color, it’s not even the factor for me cause he could be albino and have white skin, it’s the fact that ems shit just sucks now, he’s had hits but he is NOT the most influential, consistent, reliable, and versatile, if anything black thought could beat em in ANYTHING, cheat codes proved that, the seed 2.0 proved that, like em could NEVER. make that shit
What Umar doesn’t get is that Eminem has spent his whole career trying to get white people to listen to the rappers that inspired him and have constantly helped out people in Detroit, Umar just sees skin color which is extremely racist.
So does this mean micheal jordan kobe bryant and lebron are just ok at basket ball and cant be considered the best. People better stop calling tiger woods the best golfer to. How the top rappers in hip hop say em is one of the best but then has beens and forggetable people like this gonna act like their opinion carries more weight?
