Jesus: “You should all leave your parents and wives to follow me, an unmarried man.” Paul: “Jesus is coming soon, and those who are unmarried should remain so unless they’re too spiritually weak for unmarried life.” Modern Evangelicals: “Yeah the Bible basically says you have a moral obligation to get married young, and single people are destroying society.” 🙄🤦🏻♂️
Nothing in the new testament makes sense unless you realize that early Christians were clearly expecting the end of the world to come in the very near future, as in their own lifetimes.
@@hlima1hm just reassure yourself that the culture, isn’t your faith. Even when I was a Christian, the Christian culture drove me nuts. Always policing everybody, always politicizing, and always on the next witch-hunt. The culture basically resembles the Pharisees identically.
I'm a Christian man who would like to get married someday, but it still blows my mind that fellow Christians argue that people NEED to get married even though both Jesus and Paul taught the virtues of remaining single.
It's because the Christian groups who don't advocate for marriage usually die off. They took those sayings by Jesus and Paul very seriously. Commendable for sure. But they don't exist anymore. Churches have to get their members married in order for their ranks to be continually filled up. Cuz there are very few people who convert.
This atheist is curious. We agree that the Jesus character said being single and abstinent is better, so doesn’t that mean if you got married you’d be consciously defying Jesus?
@@Leith_CrowtherI'm a Christian too, though backslidden. I have to say, that what you're saying is what kept me from getting married for a long time. Even though good men came my way. Because I believed that truly godly people would be single.
From the ex-vangelicals I've heard, it is exhausting. Constantly feeling besieged, spiritual warfare everywhere, God always watching you and just waiting for you to make a mistake. It sounds terrifying too.
Some people are energized by it, others exhausted. For some, feeling like the righteous underdog is the only way to feel they have purpose, others are addicted to the brain chemicals released by outrage responses. For those that crave peace or love it is genuinely terrifying and exhausting.
I mean Christian apologists are famous for sharing clickbait articles from unreliable sources as "scientific evidence" viewing them at the same level as studies so I'm not surprised.
Friel is such a tone deaf boomer. He is so myopic that it would never occur to him that a big factor in people not wanting to get married is because they can barely afford to support themselves much less a family in this stupid economy. He’d never consider late stage capitalism or systemic issues like that.
Well said. Todd, you believe god selects everyone who will be in power and those people choose to back policies that only benefit the rich. So, if you want people to have more kids, ask you god to stop making so many dumb decisions on who he puts in power.
Trying to imagine high-school age evangelical Taylor answering the question "where do you see yourself in 10 years" with "promoting vibrators on RU-vid for sponsorship dollars!" You go, Taylor! You and Drew are entertaining and inspiring.
He talks about "treating people as cattle" is a problem because "it's not helping people get married". He misses the irony that he's addressing MEN and urging them to find a woman and get married soon, with no concern for how the women feel about this and yeah, marriage as the goal, not, like, the couple's happiness and finding what's right for them. THAT'S dehumanizing, at least of women if not men too, and carries a lot of implied objectification of women and no addressing of male responsibilities in all that he's saying to men (besides to apparently get married ASAP).
And the church youth events are not 'cattle markets' for pairing up? Or Bible colleges nicknamed Bridal Colleges? Courting/dating - they try to make a difference but to me essentially apart from restrictions on touch etc they are the same. Meet someone, like them, spend time to get to know better....
I’m sure that the lower marriage rate has nothing to do with the sky-high housing/childcare costs. It’s definitely because people can look at naked images of people for the first time in human history (except for those times when people had the ability to draw)
Don't forget long working hours and a lack of third places. You don't have many choices for dating _other_ then apps when you are exhausted after your 40+ hour working week (or from juggling your 3 gig jobs because you can't find steady work), and then your options for meeting people are limited almost entirely to commercialized spaces with sky rocketing costs to engage with. I'm just saying, the standard place to meet other singles is a bar and a single drink at a bar can easily be over 7$. Its kind of hard to justify that cost when your housing is eating most of your salary and you're swimming in student loan debt. The boomers said 'stop eating avocado toast if you're struggling for money' and the millennials and zoomers took that advice to heart and stopped going out for drinks. Because they stopped going out for drinks, they stopped meeting other singles, stopped getting married, and now the boomers have a whole new thing to complain about :D
@@FIRING_BLIND Don't pretend that a lot of Christians don't push married couples to have kids. That would just be the next crisis Todd covers if marriage rate increases.
@FIRING_BLIND Most people don’t want to get married until their financial house is in order. Debt and financial strain take a tremendous toll on a marriage. Its better when both parties have gotten their finances in good shape before entering a marriage.
I would guess that another MAJOR factor is that people these days can afford to be picky. Marriage is not a requirement anymore, it's a choice, so people want to choose wisely. Back in the day you needed to get married to basically be considered an adult, and for women in particular it was really important to have a husband to provide for them. But now we don't face those pressures anymore so we're not rushing to marry the first person we see, we actually spend time getting to know and evaluating people and walking away from relationships that aren't good for us. Which I would say is a very good thing, as opposed to previous generations getting trapped in miserable (or even abusive) marriages! I'd love to find a life partner, but I'd rather die alone than be with the wrong person. That has not always been an option.
He acts like only men decide to get married when they're in a relationship. Like, either (1) he assumes that all women want to marry or (2) he believes that only men make to get that decision????
I was fully expecting that, as well!!! I expected that, especially after he read that reddit post that talked about a return on investment in dating. I refuse to give him points for not going there, though, because it's a REALLY low bar to clear by just not trailing off into misogyny.
Living in the bible belt and having had gotten married young, people often assume my husband and I are very faithful Christians. The shock and/or very uncomfortable looks when we say we aren't religious and never have been during our relationship together is comical. Got married at 20/21, have 2 kids, and have been together for almost 10 years. Got nothing to do with god. Just about us feeling at home with each other.
@@prudentrealityyeah I'm really happy for her too. I always like people who are able to just love each other and be in relationship with each other without being hyper-religious about it.
I am the same way. My husband and I got married at 19 & 18. We have been together for 4 years now. We don’t want kids and aren’t religious and never have been. His whole family is actually atheist. Older people and very evangelical people always assume we’re some new gen super christians trying to rebuild society lol. When in reality were two bi atheists who just didn’t feel the need to seek out other people after highschool because we knew we understood and loved eachother better than anyone else could.
I think that we've raised a generation of young people who lack the ego structures to sustain relationships and commitments. I also think that, religious people put alot of pressure on young people to get married because it's the right thing to do, but they aren't really ready, so they jump in young to something they aren't happy with.
Church membership going down, therefore money from tithes going down. Cheapest and easiest way to get new members? Get people who already believe to have kids. Maximize returns from that 4 to 14 window!
The only word I’ve really been able to find to adequately describe Mr. Friel is “smarmy.” Which is a word I almost never use, but it just seems to fit here.
Literally having the time of my life repairing a pair of jeans while doting on my sprouting jerusalem artichokes and listening to you two. When I'm done with the jeans, it's time to bake some bread and prepare the kitchen for cooking a meal tomorrow, etc. I really don't have time for a partner and, as an aroace person, I'm ok with that. :D
I'm ex mo gen x. All the boomer mormons I knew were miserable and treated their wives terribly. The dads did next to nothing with or for their kids. The moms were all overworked, miserable and constantly complaining to eachother on the phone in great detail within ear shot of the kids. That whole generation seemed unaware children had feelings honestly so not bad mouthing your spouse to your kids wasn't on the radar yet for most people. It was my observation that parties mostly involved men dogging their wives to their friends in the presence of their wives in a sort of domination game of "who can humilate their wives in public the most but she won't stop smiling because she's so brainwashed". Real sick stuff. I feel like there was too much lead in the water or something. All in the family can't be your favorite show and personal relationship goals and then you're confused "wHy doesn't AnyONe like MARRRIAe??".
His demeanor would be obnoxious no matter what his message is. Smarmy, condescending, arrogant. He could be arguing for universal healthcare and freedom from religion and I still would not be able to stand him.
He's wild. I have never enjoyed him and disagreed with him even when I was a Christian. My old pastor and him are friends. That should have been a red flag on my old pastor bc they both are lunatics 💀
Must they always keep the cameras on his face whenever he moves around? That’s distracting, and it makes him look like a lion about to pounce on his prey when he’s hungry. That’s predatory behavior, a major red flag.
he sounds like an ai generated voice, like his voice pattern doesnt come across as completely human and edges around that uncanny valley. kinda freaky ngl.
I'm not a native English speaker so I didn't know that was an old timey word, I thought it was just a funny pronunciation kinda like the more modern "gworl" lol
@@KreeZafi not just old timey, but also associated with a sort of blue-collar accent from the outer boroughs of NYC and the immediate vicinity. Or at least that's always how it seemed to me.
Back in my grandfather's day, some people were "confirmed bachelors" and "spinsters"/"old maids". Now we know some were gay/bi/pan, and some Aromantic and/or Asexual. We Aro/Ace's are neither new nor trendy. It's just terminology and acceptance are catching up with people.
That TV pastor cadence he’s got going on is like nails on a chalkboard to me. It immediately puts me on edge and makes me 100% more distrustful of the words coming out of his mouth
Also, it's very telling that so far (halfway into the video) everything has been about men so far. Just men. I'm pretty sure marriage involves two people. And he's also not mentioned a SINGLE economic factor or political factor that would be discouraging people to get married or have kids.
The problem with conventional dating is people who don't want to date the people who like to frequent common social venues like bars. Where are you going to meet the people who like to stay at home, because you also prefer to stay at home? Online.
Even if I was still a Christian, I would have nothing to do with this guy. His manner of speaking is unacceptable. People who speak like that can never be trusted. If he ever tried to speak to me I'd tell him to knock it off and speak like a person
One of the silliest things about Christianity is the idea that the supposed lord of everything, the creator and master of the universe, is in desperate need of "glory" from one species of mammal living in one quintillion quintillion quintillionth of it - or that that one species can "rob him of glory." That's not even rational.
I'm glad you are covering Todd F. I talked with him on the phone years ago when he had a radio program in Minneapolis. He tried his "Do you think you are a good person" schtick on me and I wasn't having it. I can confirm his pompous arrogance. I have other stories about him 🤡
@@vintagearisen It was almost 20 years ago so I don’t remember everything verbatim. But I had heard his schtick before and had some answers, so he couldn’t ambush me. I didn’t let him control the conversation. I challenged him on his straw man descriptions and made him be specific before rejecting his arguments. Then I had to go to work and I listened to him on my walkman discussing me for almost 30 minutes with his co-host. About how hard it was to preach to me and how I seemed to know all about what they were trying to do and their not being successful at all. They admitted I was not having any of it. It was one for them to grow on I guess.
This! I’d boost the likes by hundreds if I could. The constant rhetoric in Christian circles that frame God/Bible as needing “defending”, of being “robbed” of glory and power, of being “under attack” is so absurd and nonsensical, it’s almost painful. They say God is all-powerful, then say God and His “word” (Bible) need defending. I’m a “there’s always an option C” type of gal (goyl?), but this is one instance where it really is mutually exclusive. Is God all powerful or does God need us to rescue him from being robbed and pushed out?
A lot of the Christian channels/churches that have insane gear usually buys the equipment. The equipment is a write off since they are a non-profit, and churches tend to get away with paying really low or close to nothing for crew because the crew is doing it “for the glory of god.” Start-up costs could be $30k-$50k for gear but then they could just be paying the electricity bill.
Dude quotes Paul in Ephesians about the role of either spouse, but ignores just a few sentences before or after where he says it’s better to remain single altogether… but if you HAVE to get married then blah blah blah… lol also I don’t understand why people living together and not getting married would destroy the world.
My understanding is that courting was the fashion with wealthy European families who’s main aim was to bolster their wealth and status by marrying their children to the scions of families that had whatever they wanted more of.
Around 5 years ago I downloaded bumble on a whim after seeing a Facebook ad for it. Started talking to someone within the first week of having it. We've been together ever since and have a 2 year old together. I don't think we would have ever met had it not been for bumble.
Same here. 43 never been married. I remember people telling me when I was younger I'd have kids and be married. And none of that ever sounded good. Sometimes I wonder what it would be like to have a kid. It just never happened.
"it robs god of glory”. Why do sooo very many segments of religious teaching seem to imagine that a god capable of creating the entirety of the universe will be despondent over his “lack of glory” if one human being makes one particular choice? And isn’t it fascinating that they constantly praise god for giving us free will, yet constantly berate anyone who exercises that free will in any fashion other than one particular prescribed fashion?
I wonder what Todd would think about me. I have always wanted to get married and have children. I even joined a church (not one he would recognize) to be part of a community that valued families. And yet, thanks to mental health struggles, autism, and who knows what else, here I am, a middle-aged man, with effectively norelationships, and certainly unmarried. Much as he might like to pretend otherwise, it simply doesn't happen for everyone. Sometimes because marriage isn't right for them and sometimes because, try as one might, they just don't find that relationship. But, of course, he could simply disregard my experience as a dirty heathen who's demonically inspired or some BS.
It amazes me how the same people who claim that genuinely helping those in need would be "giving them handouts" are always so willing and eager to give actual handouts to some huckster in a suit.
Great video, there is nothing like a perfect marriage or relationship, I learnt that in everything there is always a solution, 5 years ago I and my wife divorced because we were having some difficulties in our marriage but we are back together ,it was a really bad phase but we got through it
there is a lot of sense in what you just said and I hope mine works the same way too, we are currently separated but I cant live without her, I love her so much. wish I can get her back I can do anything to have her back, we have tried therapy amongst other things
its always difficult to let someone you love go, but in my case I had the help of a spiritual adviser who saved my marriage from collapsing her name is SHELLY RENEE WHITE.
I was just talking about this the other day. There's a big narrative about a male loneliness epidemic, and it is true that a lot of younger guys are lonely. I think that's the result of this kind of thinking; that you must have a relationship and marriage to be happy or complete. We need to be helping young men be content with themselves and with platonic friendships. Not only does that help loneliness, but it makes them in a better place for a real relationship. Yet again, the evangelical church's regressive message is harming people.
Nailed it. My theory is that, for some men who are getting pressured to get married, especially at a relatively young age, the pressure leads to obsessing about it, and that hyper-fixation leads to little to no focus on personal development and platonic friendships. You become stagnant and appear desperate, and discontented with who you are. Friends start distancing themselves as they grow tired of incessant rants about being single, blaming anything and everything besides yourself. Chances further decline when you approach every relationship with the hope that maybe this person is the One, and the ensuing creepy, bizarre behavior is likely to backfire and result in another failure. Eventually, it becomes the woman's fault for having too high of standards, or for not realizing what a nice guy he is, or for being too fat, and now there is resentment mixed in with the desperation. Completing the quest to find a wife becomes less and less likely, and all the while, loneliness grows and grows. Sources: Reddit article, brain.
Not just history - once a woman married she was expected to give up her job; so the women you saw in roles that involved training and building up a career would be expected to be life long singles. Also post world war (esp WW1) there was a generation that was not gender balanced because of so many young men killed, so they couldn't all be married.
I watched a lot of Wretched back in high school. Never missed an episode and had them all on dvr. It's so healing to see you guys talking about this show. Keep up the good work! Edit: If you're curious, I think the reason the show seems so over produced is because it's a tv show first that posts clips on RU-vid.
The tax and funding conversation is so interesting. Is it legally wrong for a non profit to donate extra funds to another non profit? It sounds like that could get a little sticky, but if it is allowed that seems like it would be the best case scenario if you can't expand your ministry. I'm surprised the pro life studio wouldn't give away diapers or something if they had extra funds, but like you pointed out spreading the gospel and their agenda is far more important than actually helping communities for many of these Christian non profits. I think if I had a charity I'd try to make the maintenance and building costs as low as possible in favor of helping more people, but sadly a lot of people aren't great with money or require luxuries they don't need.
They overpaid for all that soundproofing, etc. because they could choose who was hired to build it and what they were paid, possibly even arrange literal kickbacks from those workers, i overpay you 4X your hourly rate and you hit me back with 1.5X your hourly rate with X gift, or direct cash.
"kids are watching porn at 10 years old and looking at pixels instead of finding a spouse" im gonna go ahead and give a hot take here: i'd rather a 10-year-old look at porn than get married. jus' sayin'
Yea the fact that it's traditional for marriages to be more about patriarchal control is an example of how it's always been a thing for relationships to be based on seeing partners as commodities. I don't really think it's social media causing this, I just think it's more noticeable, and people are becoming more aware of how that's not the best reason for marriage or relationships. The way the theist is talking about marriage as a thing for god and less about just genuine love shows how people already think relationships and marriage are more like purchases to signal something to the outside world.
Also I love how God is supposedly all powerful and yet somehow is a victim of our behavior, as if you could actually steal anything from an all powerful being. Patently absurd.
5:42 You can see from everything Todd Friel talks about in the video that when he says here "playing the role" he MEANS playing roles. It IS just an act to get people into the church. How you're really doing or feeling doesn't matter. Just get married and act like your marriage is perfect so people ask you your secret and you can tell them to get saved and join your church (where they'll later learn about the unbiblical fine print of tithing and his church can get wealthy).
My husband and I (both athiest) delayed getting married into our 30’s so we could afford a house, and we waited to have kids until our early/mid 30s because we couldn’t afford to have kids any sooner. We met in person, but we built a decent part of the foundation of our relationship on Facebook and texting, and we “enjoyed that intimate act” a lot before we got married. People’s lack of willingness to take conventionally serious steps in their relationships is an economic symptom, not an app issue. I think the only thing he’s been right about in this video is people being introduced to porn too early. It does actually impact brain development before a certain age (I’m pretty sure 15 or 16 years old was the age cited in one of the studies I saw). I personally wouldn’t want someone want to marry me strictly to get their rocks off, that feels pretty objectifying to me…
So I’m a Christian who has been deconstructing his faith for a while now and used to listen to Wretched a lot. This whole video makes no sense to me since Todd is a staunch Calvinist. How do men not dating rob God of “glory” when, given Todd’s theology, God is the one who has determined their disposition to not date? Logically you would have to say that God is denying himself glory by predetermining these men to not date. It’s just so contradictory and I would be interested what Todd would say to such a contradiction.
I love how is never "men might be suffering so we need to help them", is always "men don't act in a way that benefits my agenda so we need to push them into the behaviour that benefits me"
It is! The average age for marriage and kids is roughly 30 years of age. Most Christians live in their own bubble and have very little outside knowledge 😂 (I grew up in a Christian household and community)
As an illustrator who specializes in adult artwork, I have some thoughts on pornography. First: porn _does_ present unrealistic scenarios, but I think it’s unfair to say that it creates unrealistic expectations. It’s more likely that it’s a dearth of sex education that creates unrealistic expectations; after all, many Christians, who do not come into their first sexual experiences with any significant exposure to porn, _also_ have unrealistic expectations because their education has been, in its entirety, “Once you get married the sex will be amazing”. Porn only contributes to unrealistic expectations when it’s the _only_ or _primary_ source of sex education a person is getting. It’s not porn’s responsibility to teach people how to have healthy sex any more than it’s Gran Truismo’s job to teach people how to drive in real life. Second: Taylor, you say that most porn is not focused on the pleasure of both people in the content, but it’s really only mainstream porn-the front page of Pornhub-that focuses primarily on the male power fantasy. Porn is about letting the viewer vicariously live out or peek in on a fantasy. Sometimes that fantasy is focused on the sexual gratification of a character designed for the viewer to project themselves onto, like humiliation or domination; sometimes it’s focused on the mutual sexual gratification of all parties, like adult romantic stories; sometimes it’s focused on the sexual gratification of _others,_ like cuckolding or being on the _receiving_ end of humiliation. There’s a huge variety of pornographic themes available; it’s just not the first thing you see on YouPorn. Third: Keeping in mind that porn is about sexual fantasy, porn is almost always not designed to be consumed by more than one person. You should think of most porn in the same way that you’d think of a sex toy: a tool used in self-stimulation. While it is possible for sex toys to be used for mutual pleasure, that’s not what they’re typically designed for; every vibrator doesn’t need to have options for two or more parties. Likewise, pornography doesn’t _need_ to depict mutual gratification if the fantasy doesn’t require it, because it's not intended to present analogues of multiple viewers.
Where are they getting the idea that people aren't getting married? People are getting married and not staying married because they're either getting married for the wrong reasons or are rushing into it and ignoring or not seeing red flags from the person they're with. Getting married to glorify God is NOT a good reason to get married.
I'm only 3.5 minutes in and already 1) this guy's cadence is fkn bizarre. I get he's a radio dude so I expected unusual speech patterns but this is just, lol. And 2) I stg if he doesn't place any blame on the whole redpill/MGTOW/that whole umbrella I'll scream.
This is hilarious because I met my husband on Bumble during Covid lockdown. We had a bee-themed wedding last year. A dating app literally brought us together.
Yes, his video is very overstimulating. I wouldn't be able to watch if y'all weren't interrupting with your thoughts. (Not the only reason I appreciate said interruptions.) I'm glad you brought up Paul, and not for the first time, I've wondered if he's a Biblical example of an asexual. I'm not surprised he has such a black-and-white view. IME, that's pretty common among Christians, especially those who desire to preach or teach their beliefs.
I just want to thank you for making these videos, you both are amazing! I know that you wouldn't call yourselves Christians, but I think you are the true Christians here. You speak openly against the hypochrisy, abuse, greed, lies and lack of empathy of these so called "Christians". I think that's exactly what Jesus would do.. Thank you so much! You are helping so many people with this you don't even know
I would hope the delay in, or not getting involved in, marriage is because people are trying to choose their lifemate carefully and with actual thought of the long term future and not flippantly or from puppy love.
Tell me why we couldn't build our society around small polyamorous groups? I have several friends that have done that already, they just don't advertise. Having 3 or 4 parents, means you have a lot more support for the whole family.
It is very dehumanizing as a woman to be viewed as a walking vagina, which is the implication he is making when he says that most Christian men want to get married so they can have sex. I was raised at the height of purity culture in the 90's, and the teenage girls were made to sign purity pledges with our fathers, pledging that we would remain virgins until our wedding nights (note that the teenage boys were not required to do the same). We were told that we wouldn't want to give our husbands a piece of chewed gum on our wedding nights, would we? We were told that as Christian wives, it would be our jobs to keep our husbands satisfied, even if we weren't in the mood, because otherwise they might stray and it would be our fault for failing them as wives. This meant a whole generation of women who were traumatized by being sexualized at such young ages as we were it was OUR job to monitor what we were wearing, even in our early teens, so as not to cause our "Christian brethren to stumble." Rather than teaching young men that women aren't sexual objects and to control their urges, we were asked what we were wearing or what we had done to cause them to attack us. I am so very, very tired of this bullshit. And "courting" very much falls into the realm of purity culture. Enough is enough!
