Just one thing to take into consideration that I think was slightly neglected in the video is the ability for some melee like feral and rogue to attack from a slight range as opposed to being right up in the enemy like most melee. That is a massive dps and survivability boost to them. Some mechs can be straight up ignored while they dps.
ret paladin also has a talent making word of glory stronger on low hp target (can fully healed them tbh) and the talent also makes lay of hands cooldown lower & reduce faster if it heals for a high % (if u fully heal someone ur lay of hands is like 3m30mn-4m), also divine storm can bring constant passive healing to the party too with the talent, which helps a bit in big aoe situation. a good ret pally is so powerful in a pug team, even more than a tank pally at this point...
WoG healing is soooo poor, in a tooltip its say 100k healing, but in reality its just 50k. LoH healing is affected by damp as twice as it should be. Fire Mage's Blazing Barier is also has hidden absorbtion nerf in PvP. Ret's WoG and Fire Mage's Barier are still has the hidden nerf in PvP, thx to the Shadowlands, because Blizzard basicly forgot all about that. Nobody is reminding them to revert those old nerfs.
The thing about ret is a person that’s just going to want to do damage will have a hard time making it shine. Their saves are insane. Bubble/Sac tank, lay on hands, bop. There’s a talent that turns your flash of light into an instant cast, the wog talent that can heal players like you said. It takes a good player to make ret shine. Most are worried about keeping themselves alive most of the time. Shield of vengeance, and their other 1 minute defensive are also great. I’ve helped offheal tanks when healer goes down. Plus they have a battle rez. I do notice their damage does fall off, but if you focus and add and make sure it gets to 20 before your wings run out you can sustain.
i am a longtime mage player and so happy about the changes, yet im fucking disappointed about how they left melee in the dirt..why isnt there atleast a melee combo with aug, enhance + X?... fucking sucks if all groups search for the same old boring stuff just to complete keys without too much troubles because aug just exists and sp presses pi, wow thats quite a strategic setup for m+ season and expansion is good fun but blizz has to even it out a bit..frost dk is a hidden gem and as clickz said its gonna be a surprise for everybody (directed comment to the fotm reroller noobs and meta slaves trying to time their 23's while they are whack ass fuck players with their shitty binds breaking their whole hand doing a 5 button rotation)
@@Hertaclesdidn’t have that problem. Usually get invited with a few minutes and that from 405 to 431 where I am now. I do expect higher keys to be a problem due to scaling issues but I’m not planning on going above 16 anyway.
I'm 442ilvl arms warrior and I can say I never lost in dps towards any class in game besides boss fights because my build is for 85% AoE 15% single target, in M+ arms pump much more then fury, fury spec is only above arms in terms of how the tank pulls. If there is only 4/5 targets fury beat arms for 15% more damage, now if the tank pulls more then 8/9 targets, arms will beat fury for more then 45% damage. I can pump 800k dps on a 20+ if the tank pulls around 13/14 targets. Bring any class you want, arms warrior will destroy any dps. People are so tunnel vision towards the stupid *meta* they don't play their mains just to feel OP because other classes gets buffs in 1 season. I can say that I played more then 100 M+ above 17/18 *pugs* with allot people top ilvl in the game being 448/449 and I'm 442 still destroy them for 200k more. My max dps *burst* in black hollow was 925k with a SP PI and aug dragon.
@@Garbage315 dosent matter mate, you can arrange a good group to rely on *what the warrior* lacks in utility, warrior class still brings a good kit to the table! he can save the tank from a wipe with a macro to taunt the boss and use (die by the sword) and you will parry all attacks , giving time for the tank to get back up or ven taunt spell reflect in a *spell* that made the tank struggle. u have pummel, shockwave, stormbolt, fear (with talent) to knock them back and AoE (team) imune to fear affects good to use in Bracken dungeon, ralling cry is also good tho. i do understand warrior class is not much a big help but besides hes raw damage makes the group have a smooth run when it comes to dungeons full of huge pack of mobs like Bracken or uldaman. same goes for elemental shaman, no one plays it on high keys, but if u pay attention to their utility kit, they are the best class in the game in terms to support the team in anything in the game! not to mention the CD reduce from casting lighting bolt or chain lightning! that is like 5/6 secs on wind shear and other totems that provide the team great support
I think it was in reference to ret suffering from lower dps in sustained single target and usually having to spec more towards aoe, which hurts their single target disproportionately
I would a comprehensive guide for different dungeon techs. Snaps, less known mechanics, useful locations to skip with invis pots, etc. I know the information can be found in a few other places but I’ve yet to find anyone that makes current season guides like that.
You can say all you want about frost but until we get more utility for the group we won’t get invited over aug, s priest or any mage so basically we only get to play with average or below average groups.
yeah grips are highly overrated in most keys imo. theres little amount of mobs that spam uninterruptable ranged attacks (ranged guys at start of freehold) and the mobs u would want to actually grip back in (underrot matrons) are immune to everything anyway. nothing is stopping anyone from just interrupting the caster mobs to move them in. amz is also pitifully weak compared to how it was in sl. 2 things fdk has going for it at least are great damage and personal survivability but like u said that matters not when the best specs bring similar/more damage + great utility
what people dont get about assasination is how you want to use garrote in aoe: use garrote on 1 target, use indiscriminate carnage(macro it with cold blood) garrote again to expand dot window on all targets, it just snapshots the second one to all the mobs - even wowhead guide creator gets this wrong..
This is a prime example of why you want to follow guides and not make your own. The reason for indiscriminate carnage to be the first ability before pull is due to improved garrote talent. What you're doing is basically reducing your AOE damage from garrote by 50% unless you're using subterfuge. And even if you are using subterfuge, you're simply missing out on a GCD by doing that. What you're explaining is what assassination rogues used to have as a single target rotation excluding IC and CB. CB makes no sense regardless as this isn't burst damage - it's a dot.
What he's saying makes sense though if your gonna pop CDs on a trash pack. Vanish/carnage will extend the initial imp garrote. It's a good way of keeping mobs silenced longer too.
Hilarious that Windwaker Monks are rated as an "A" by an MDI champion when there were zero WW in the MDI this year (or monks of anykind for that matter) and no WW in the Great Push.
To all you melee dps our there, we run 16-17 crest farm runs all the time in my guild and oddly we are always only short dps and when we Q for our keys we WILL NOT comp our group without melee balance. Puglife is puglife and its never easy, I feel your pain but ther are guilds out there looking for good players who just happen to be melee.
Your view is skewed. With Dire Fixation ferals became very competitive in their ST dmg profile. Current top comps are polluted with specs that benefit largely with augmentation evokers. Not because those specs bring more to the group independently. Ferals, prior to augmentation, were in top groups. After tuning, I'm sure comps will change. Group wide buff, battle rez, amazing utility, almost unrivaled sustained aoe, ok st, amazing survivability... If augmentation wasn't part of the equation, I know there'd be a higher population.
Great video, although it's kind of hilarious this is coming out right as the meta has shifted and melee is now the least sought after dps in M+ for high keys atm sadly. I'm gonna have a very hard time staying above the cutoff as a sub rogue, but maybe if I bash my head against this wall enough I can make it!
I have to pretend to play fire to get y arcane into groups lol. Get flamed for playing arcane then top dps lol, people metaslave like they're doing 25+
Kind of contradictory to start this video off by saying the damage rating will be mostly based on AoE capabilities, and then giving UDK 4/10 for doing bad on low target counts, while at the same time giving FDK 8/10 for being able to do good cleave damage to 2 extra targets with their DnD, with the remaining mobs taking at best moderate damage from Remorseless Winter
thing is that none of fdks aoe spells are capped outside of obliterate cleave. glacial advance/remorseless winter/frost fever/frostwyrmsfury/howling blast w rime all do the same dmg regardless of target count. obliterate may be capped but its does insane dmg to 3 targets and when u take into account everything else not being capped they still end up doing great dmg in aoe. i
The point is you don't have to design pulls around your FDK for them to pump. You can pull 3 or you can pull 10 and they'll pump either way bc you're forgetting about FWF and GAs plus fever and Razorice etc. You NEED to pull around a UDK for them to do meaningful dam. They way UDK does damage is highly restrictive for the group so it doesn't score as well. It's profile is less versatile and thus holds them back in a mode where being versatile is king.
So on a quick sim I tried to compare three almost identical talent trees, one with shockwave while giving up Uproar, one while giving up Thunderous Words and one where I didn't run Shockwave at all and just double capstoned - on a 3 minute patchwerk ST I lost 3k dps and on a 40s 7mob cleave I lost 3.5k dps when giving up Uproar. The reason you usually opt away from Shockwave is because it fucks up your single target damage (which is huge especially on Tyr) and because it fucks up your AoE uptimes. Are you gonna give up Uproar which makes your TR be available *almost* every pack (huge damage boost) or are you gonna give up Words which increases BOTH AOE and ST damage due to BT build? When I simmed without Thunderous Words the sim result SANK from the aforementioned 3.5k dps loss ALL THE WAY by 18k dps (from 410 double capstone to 391 with shockwave and no Thunderous Words). The reason Shockwave isn't played is you lose either HUGE ST/AOE value from Thunderous Words or HUGE Thunderous Roar useability PER pack. The sims are irrelevant because you need to sim for ACTIVE uptime.
Free? I'd love to see your skill tree where you get to keep TR with both capstones and still get shockwave without a huge dps lose. Don't worry I'll wait.
i gotta disagree with rogue survivability. Cheat, feint, cloak, evasion, crimson vial, SnD leech. it's like you forgot half of the defensive capabilities of the kit. Also Sub rogue is by far easier than outlaw is, they have the same kits for defensive options and outlaw has many other procs to deal with (and knowing when to hold RTB buffs or fish for better ones etc), not to mention blunderbuss and HO procs, usage of dance etc. Sub rogue is still essentially a 2 button spec for dps for both aoe or funnel damage.
Enhance needs a little more survivability and a little bit more single target damage and it'll feel really balanced imo. I think they should take Burrow from PvP and make it a Shaman class talent, but also make it so it removes debuffs. Replace Astral Shift on the tree but make Astral Shift baseline.
I personally would have ranked the hunter higher on utility maybe a 6-7, and also it pretty hard to die with hunter up until 18 + given that your kit requires constant repositioning thus forcing you to move around all the time and you got range on your melee attacks that in it self deserves a solid 6 not considering feign death wich is often underestimated, but ex when you do a massive pull in BH first part that focus frenzy from 3 is quite lethal in higher keys but again i might be biased since i do play surv hunter
Shadow has been a staple for a while this expansion. The other priest specs less so. Paladin is always good cause protection is always good in m+, and holy is also made for m+ regardless of tuning. Resto druid is similar. Rogues are always perceived as good (not in the current meta tho). Warrior, DKs, feral, are almost always dead in the water and are never sought out in like several expansions now. The rest depend on tuning. That been said, healing is so stressful atm that healers are in very high demand. Any healer really, although holy paladin, resto druid, prevoker and shaman have an edge over the others, with holy beeing way above the rest atm.
There's always a special VIP seat reserved for S Priest this season and I don't see it changing anytime soon. Aug/guard/H pal are great too, but I can definitely see these specs getting nerfed out the meta at some point.
i dont get it , all tier list always says monks ww are trash or bad overall dmg , but im always top in raid escenarios and m+ .-. , it just depends on hands i think...
In the warrior arms video you are not playing with the ideal build, arms can have a single target as strong as fury and keeping it without aoe and cap.
Yeah, dk is pretty much a dead class in m+ as of now. You have nothing any other class can bring. Frost's damage can be good if for some reason you can stand in dnd for 12 seconds straight which never happens. Unh is dead unless youre pulling 8+ mobs which doesnt happen. Dk is a class that sounds good on paper but in reality falls apart.
@@normannseils3936 pillar is only thing that really matters. erw + bloodlust still do tank dmg if u dont have pillar. erw is hilariously bad for a 2 min cd imo. was a lot better in sl with the conduit that gave it bonus %haste
@@normannseils3936 ah yeah i agree with that. playing with/without a priest feels like night n day. u run out of runes constantly in ur pillar and u dont have the haste to spend rp to get them back so u waste precious pillar duration
Assassination does not have good st. This one is just wrong. Assassination has to give up a very significant portion of their st damage for aoe, and even if they retained all of their st damage, they should still not be the best st spec, not even close. Assassination is just terribly tuned. It's straight up weak in keys, and it doesn't even excel in raids either. The only reason why you might see an assassination rogue do better st in a raid than sub or outlaw is pi, because assassination actually scales nicely with haste.
I wouldn't even be shocked to see Unholy DK back in the MDI scene. They're one of the worst PUG DPS yet one of the absolute strongest in coordinated teams.
these guys really tried to say WW monks are likened to tanks in terms of survivability.... I'm not sure if you have ever played with a monk, but that is just straight up not true
@@matthewblissit1677it’s really not though lol. You have to play pretty much perfect to not die in high level keys. Where as a lock can just stand in anything they please with no issues.
@@alabamafan444 if you’re considering 26+ high keys then you’re probably right. Outside of that it’s just a matter of knowing when damage is coming. I don’t have any issues with survivability on my WW in 20s
@@matthewblissit1677 No, no its not. WW is regarded as one of the squishiest classes because it's low health pool, and it lacks immunities or passive defenses that some classes have which sucks as melee. The only reason to bring a WW to a key or raid is for Mystic Touch or if you just need a warm body to fill a group.
I mean they kinda right tho...I played my WW up to like 2600-2700 and you almost have to put effort in to die. It's obviously a slight exaggeration but between 4 pretty beefy mitigations, a few ways to moderately self heal, Vers being their best stat, Calm Pres + GP + enchants ON TOP of vers, a cleanse and ROP....floor swirls and tank cleaves are pretty much the only real threat at that point. Everything else might as well be nonexistent until a 20 or higher. Fixates. Don't care. Poison or Disease dots. Don't Care. Ticking Aoe or bleeds. Don't Care. Chunked. Insta viv + EH for like 120k. Incoming cast. Four total ways to kick it. Knock back. Don't care. Literal boss mechanics. Trans. Hell if you want even more you could drop a little dam for bounce back if you really wanted. They avoid/mitigate so much damage it should be criminal tbh.
Did you say "monk's strength lies in single target"? Dude, monk's ST sucks like never before, I'm playing monk this season and cleave is really solid but single target is good only in burst when I pop my cooldowns, when they end dps ends too...
Im playing arms no matter if it is meta or not ,nowadays are people like : check for the meta,switch it to it, regardless on how much skilled im in that class,i just let the number speaks ,but not my hands 😢 today is more competetive goin with “antimeta” and make it in time having hard times but fun, rather than just picking the best what u can have and also feel yourself as a greatpusher with everything suited for you.Last season i was on 2,5k rio with my arms warrior without use of any addon.. and i goin to repeat it this season 🤝 but yes its hard find someone who can trust into you and sometimes its taking so long and if u want a livestream i can happen that 3/4 of your stream is about a finding a group,and guys like me with full time life outside we just dont have time for it,so whats more mythical find a group or do it in time?😅😿 peace 🫶🏻🖖🏽
You do realize that you can get 2500 while playing 5 prot warriors, or playing without one person in a group or playing with one hand or playing without a keyboard... Well you get the point
Seriously, where is all this "Sin is great at ST" coming from? It's just not how it is currently. With sin you can either talent into AoE or ST, choosing one completely sacrifices the other. Even if you did decide to sac your AoE to play a full ST build in M+... In fully BiS gear, it only sims around 135k, not even the middle of the road when compared with other classes.
RET has not that much dmg Single taget is bad with the m+ build and aoe is nice but there are many classes that do the same or even more and now ret is hard to balance because Blizz will never buff him after rework because every single target attack is now aoe that’s a problem. When Blizz buffs his single taget automatically his aoe buffs too.
Please never ever release any rogue related content. How dare you to mark them as 7/10 sustain, when they literally never proc Cheat Death until ~30 keys?? Rogues have billions more sustain than the warriors and you put warriors higher. 3rd boss on HoI is easily countered by using Feint and Crimson Vial on cooldown, making rogues just immortal on this boss. Real numbers: all 3 specs 10/10 sustain and utility. Sub 10 damage, outlaw 6-7 damage, assa 3 damage.
Guide is useless when aug exists Use your influence to actually make the game great. No one is gonna buy your stuff if the game is trash. Lobbying exists for a reason
