EVs Explained Off Road! Dual Motor vs Tri Motor vs Quad Motor - Locking Diffs vs Virtual Lockers 

You guys are really setting the gold standard for EV reviews. Keep it up.

Kyle does a better job on RU-vid with explaining things than a college professor

Bravo, I love the technical explanations of the vehicles. This will differentiate you from the typical youtubers that only discuss styling.

Best EV Auto Review channel in the World. Puts companies like Consumer Reports, Edmunds, etc to shame.

Kyle said "Today's going to be a quick one..." - how many of us immediately wiggled the mouse or tapped the screen to see how long the video is, and were surprised it's *only* half an hour?

Superb explanations, even for me, 23yo European that never did any offroading, that was so interesting to watch No hate for Tesla or EVs in general like I'm used to see everywhere else on the internet. Really refreshing.

Great video! Love to see the comparisons. I really like the Silverado EV with it's massive battery but this video shows I should keep the Lightning, at least for now. My Lighting sees some rough trails at times. Just recently I had to tow a flat bed trailer up a steep, rocky uneven dirt road. Google Earth shows it's a 14 percent Grade at times and it owned it like a boss. The access road to the Solar powered cell tower we worked at has many signs stating 4x4 low range required. My truck is on 34's and a 3 inch lift though. The locker helps immensely on the trails. Steady, smooth throttle is key and also definitely do not stop on the steeper parts. Let the motors and locker do their thing. 6 Months in and this truck has definitely earned it's keep.

I don’t see why Rivian can’t simply have a mode wherein all 4 motors turn at exactly the same rate, simulating a fully locked vehicle. The right pedal would then simply be a speed control, not an “accelerator” which is exactly what one wants when rock crawling. There’s no need to measure the mu of the surface, just measure the motor RPM. Surely that can be done in just a few milliseconds; the computer is obviously fast enough, all it needs is a sufficiently precise RPM sensor. And I suspect that is already there in the basic motor controller, anyway.

Such a great video! I'm sure there are other videos that explain locking diffs as well, but this up-leveled my understanding a lot and since it's EV-specifc, is way more relevant to my interests than a more general video.

Very big learning session - very good work and teaching guys! 💪 And it is sooo cool to see this beasts in offroad without any noise.... so quiet - just "magic" - its the future for sure 🚀

Kyle you’re a work horse! I love all the content, I’m convinced you don’t take days off.

I definitely just learned how diff locks work! Thanks Kyle!

I've been waiting for you to do this video, Kyle! Good stuff. One thing I think bears more mention is the benefit to preserving momentum and reduced trail destruction that a locker(s) offer due to reduced wheelspin. Brake differential control (which CONSUMES torque to transfer torque) or multi-motor on an axle are reactive and need to see that slip on one side to ramp up torque to the opposite side. You make a great point at 18:50 that most people don't yet understand about EVs and I think it bears repeating. Quad motor means 1/4 of the power available to any given wheel.

Man excellent explanation about torque distribution. This coming from a 28 year experience technician who also loves offroading.

here's a quick one! 30 minutes lol

Ok ok ok, you sold me on the Silverado EV.

an interesting addition here wouldve been the 4xe wrangler, even though its a phev it would be a good representation of mechanical 4wd with lockers since its all pre-transmission and how it handles the different torque curve of an electric motor

I could watch 12 hours of this stuff. You guys rock! More please!!

Off-road not my thing so this was great education. Thanks.

Thank you for explaining the caveats and differences between the drive trains of these different electric trucks.

Great video. I design motor controllers for a living, and I don't understand why this is so complicated. In offroad mode with the 3- or 4-motor systems, all that needs to be done is to ensure that all motors spin at the same RPM, and allow each of them to use full torque to achieve this. Motor controllers can react very quickly to increased torque demand, so that there should be no noticeable delay to the driver. In theory it should be able to look and behave like you have physical lockers. What am I missing?

From what I've seen, dual motor with lockers seems to be the best combination for EVs. Rivian needs to make that an option.

Thanks for the awesome EV truck reviews, you guys are killing it lately! Very informative.

WOW! I learned a lot from this video, thank you. 💯💪👍

phenomenal video. thanks!

It sounds like a quad motor setup that had a way to hard couple the wheel together would be the ultimate setup. Other than this, a dual motor with lockers where you can run traction control most of the time, but hard lock things up when things get gnarly would be amazing. Of course you still need some virtual locking going on between the front and rear motor since on many serious off-road tracks, maintaining a slow but consistent pace is essential. Having your vehicle bog down because the front or back lost traction for a moment on a tough climb is not a good thing.

I recently traded my old Silverado for an F150 Lightning. Like most gas Silverados, it had a mechanically auto-locking Eaton G80 rear differential. Seems like that would be something useful on a work-truck.

Quality content from start to finish, thanks guys.

Very nice informative video! Thank you for making this.

Great video Kyle. I would have never thought to compare this.

Thank you professor Kyle.

I like the tried and true physical locker

This was a pretty nice video,I enjoyed it.

Very cool demo and neat to see!

IMO, a dual motor EV with front and rear electronically controlled lockers is the ideal set up overall for off roading. Let’s you have the lower weight and higher efficiency of only two motors, while still being able to send power to the wheels that need it most. Quad motor is overkill and I would say tri-motor is too. You can get much higher efficiency, lower cost and lower likelihood of a failure with fewer motors. It’s also nice if you have dual permanent magnet motors that the front motor can mechanically disconnect from the drivetrain for highway cruising so it is RWD only for higher efficiency. For whatever reason Rivian made its vehicles go into FWD only mode when you put it in efficiency mode. An odd decision for a truck or SUV, especially if towing and a lot of weight is on the rear end making the front wheels lighter and easier to lose traction. T Chevy’s performance was abysmal and it could be much better. Plenty of cars with open rear and front differentials are able to go off road without issue (like Land Rover vehicles that don’t have the locking rear differential option). My Kia EV6 GT has a rear electronically controlled differential and it makes all the difference in the world when you mash the accelerator (NOT THROTTLE LIKE KYLE SAYS lol) in a curve and it just puts the power down to the outer rear wheel instead of lighting up in the inside tire or cutting power like a Model 3/Y Performance will do with their open differentials. It can overdrive one wheel for torque vectoring which can absolutely be felt. So glad they fit one to the GT. BMW needs to do that on its i4 M50, i5 M60, and i7 xDrive60/M70. We have an i7 and it will torch the front tires from a standstill while on sharp curves it can overwhelm even the big 285mm rear tires if you floor it. Their equivalent ICE cars come with an active M differential so not sure what they left it off the EVs that cost even more!

Awesome vid/test please keep these coming

Nice to see logic instead of sales pitch.

I watch your videos at 2x speed, and the chipmunk laugh when you're sliding the Cybertruck around just fills me with joy.

Great video. Thanx!

Thanks!

As someone that has never gone off-roading I had no idea what a differential was. But after this video I think I might have less of a deer in the headlights look next time someone is talking about their truck lol. Thanks!

Using a locker when floating a tire or two on rocks can greatly reduce tire wear from fast spinning tires when they start to get traction. It also reduces jerk that can cause center of gravity shifting.

This was awesome.

My offroading experience is mostly from the army times with offroad trucks that had all the locks, so that's what I'm used to. Armored 6x6 vehicles were pretty fun!

I don't do off-roading, at least not voluntarily. Therefore, I'd prefer anything that doesn't need extra HW (more cost, more weight, more things that can break) for occasional „Huh, am I really stuck in the snow, how do I get out?“ accident. Certainly, a car that is specifically designed to go offroading might have different trade-offs.

Absolutely loved the detail provided here! It reminded me how I use my pickups for anything pickup related 0.95%. I like trucks because I sit high, are powerful, and go pretty fast. Above all, I like the feeling I can handle those obscure usages if the time comes. At least that's what I think most feel. Hot take: I'm tired of owing The standard bubble truck, manufactured by different companies. Huge bonus, All the things haggerty mentioned in his video. Electric

I think it would be helpful for you to explain why we have differentials in the first place. I suspect many viewers are asking “why not lock all axels all the time?”

Thank You for All that you are doing for our Planet Earth.... Peace.. Shalom.. Salam.. Namaste 🙏🏻 😊 🌈 ✌ ☮ ❤

This channel should be a benchmark for EV reviews!

Hummer EV 2X (dual motor) has locking diffs front and rear

Love my quad

Clear as water, you know how to teach.

"Today we're going to do a QUICK one" ... 32 minutes later video is still not over.

Awesomeness. Really looking to see a serious hybrid, plug-in, hybrid or range extended EV version of the pick up truck.

Great video and explanation. Seen my first Silverado EV in person in Wisconsin. Awesome truck. Looking forward to seeing hummer EV test. All have there plus and minus. The range of hummer and Chevy is amazing and wish cybertruck had it without the extended battery. However Tesla charging is more reliable. Tough decisions ahead but love these videos as explains a lot and answers a lot of my questions and concerns.

Loving all of the truck content! Still hoping to see a few more videos on the Lyriq (Cadillac’s second best selling vehicle behind the Escalade). Would be great to see a range test and a 10% challenge. Thank you!

My ‘23 Lariat ER has the most amazing traction I’ve seen. The stock highway tires it came with have pulled the truck and 14k dump trailer everywhere I’ve tried to go. I have locked the diff a few times. A front locker would be nice but then knowing I had that I’d put myself in deeper trouble. Important logic for any off-road driving. Don’t assume your very best effort (frt & rr lockers) is what you’re getting into. Always keep your best effort for getting out of overzealous efforts. Keep a trick up your sleeve - so to speak.

would love to see the hummer ev in this group .

You mention the Silverado being "unique" for having a physical parking pawl, but the F150 Lightning also has a parking pawl.

You guys have been on a roll. Keep up the good work! Also I have a recent picture of a Canoo EV if you’re interested. I took it today about 1 hour ago. It’s a consumer model blue and black. I haven’t seen anyone talking about them at all lately.

I thought one of the perks of EVs was you could junk the dif for 4 in wheel motors. !

With all the hype about traction control systems in 4WDs, how Toyota has the amazing crawl control for example, and the advances we are seeing in EVs, it would be easy to think that traction control is better than lockers. So wrong. A fully locked system is BY FAR the best system for traction, and not by a little bit. Kyle almost touched on why with the idea of rapidly changing conditions, but perhaps more importantly, all wheels turn at the same speed, so if one wheel loses traction it doesn't start spinning wildly, it stays at the same speed as the ground and much more likely to regain traction. Also by avoiding a spinning wheel it will not dig itself into the ground or sand or mud. I suspect it will be a long time before software systems can out-perform a fully locked system.

I like the concept of your videos. We already know the basics. Thank you for going in depth.

There's lots of talk among Rivian Forums that the upcoming production line halt and restart may mean a refreshed R1 with quad _Enduro_ motors for improved efficiency *and* more power.

Rivian brings new context to the phrase "when in doubt, throttle out" 😂

thank you! you just missed to show the "CT Rock Mode". what does it do different?

The Rivian software is surprisingly mature and stabilizes the vehicle well. As for latency in reaction, once the Cybertruck's OTA updates have caught up we might see millisecond response times to dynamic torque distribution...

Great video... I think I would prefer a GOOD limited slip diff.. like Torsen or equivalent something strong enough to transfer 100% of the power to any axle or wheel. they have instant power transfer to the wheel with more grip. Even better if you get a good center diff and on the axles.. ... next would be lockers.

A 4 electric motors with appropriate software solution will be superior to a locker, especially in regard to the inevitable component damage that use of lockers in a real world scenario always entails

Good thing your Rivian got the flat instead of the Cybertruck!

The Cybertruck looks so cool driving in the dirt. I would probably still never get one through for multiple reasons. Biggest being I am against full size trucks.

Actually software "locking" is quite simple. You adjust the amount of power being applied to each wheel to best match the measured angles from the motor encoders so that they spin at the same speed. Initially you will get the free wheel spinning quicker, but very quickly (within a few degrees) you can realize this and adjust how much power is applied. I am quite unimpressed by the cybertruck's and the Rivians current software to manage this as they are very slow to respond.

29:00 Credit where it’s due, you can do tricks to overdrive an individual rear wheel with an ICE AWD system, like in the Focus RS, which would overdrive the rear axle and use clutches to control power to each side.

i suspect dual motors would be the most efficient overall, so if adding lockers does not take away efficiency and provide real 4 wheel traction. We need more testing to see if try motor is as efficient as dual motor in regular driving on the same truck on same drive.

I think on the front axle you don't need two motors, doing it with the brake only is sufficient. So the Cybertruck tri-motor version should be fine enough, as long as the software is written correctly. For most people a dual motor version with good software to use the brakes for this is also sufficient, like the Silverado does it. The software must work fine anyway.

If the traction system could detect suspension loading, it ought to make the software control much easier for cases where there are wheels off the ground.

Tesla's motors are actually both Induction and Permanent magnet, they actually actively change the Synchronicity to rely more on induction or the magnets, which can provide benefits at low or high speeds, i think they call them IPMSynRM, Intelligent Permanent Magnet Synchronus Reluctance Motor

I honestly just love all these trucks. The cybertruck will be the right price after founders packages go away IMO. Used Rivians are pretty tempting right now. Can also get a fully loaded F150 with 10k miles for around 50k which seems decent. Nice to have all these great options. Thanks for the video

Great explanations. I've heard it explained before, but this is the first time I think I actually understood it to the point of being able to remember it from now on. I do wonder why these companies are using quad motors instead of lockers. Maybe its better in other ways that it doesn't make sense to have dual motors with lockers when it can only send 1/2 the total power to any one wheel. It will be interesting to see if the G-Wagon has quad motors, how it compares to the ICE version with lockers.

Say it with me "Pseudo lockers are not lockers!"

I think there needs to be multiple gear reduction ratio outputs. Essentially, electrically controlled automatic transmissions for lower ranges and higher torques to prevent stalling of the motors and overheating of the electronics.

Usually an induction motor should have better low speed torque and stall torque, it is a non synchronous type motor which means the rotor is not synchronized with the stator field rotation. The more out of sync they are, the more torque there is, this is called field slip. As the motor RPM increases the torque typically decreases on this type. Permanent Magnet isn't a motor type in itself because even induction can use PM too. But assuming they mean permanent magnet synchronous motor, that means it's a synchronous type motor. These are the most efficient type of motor. The rotor must be rotate in lock step with the stator field rotation, any slip would mean it stops producing any torque and failed. Synchronous motors are typically constant torque from stall to max RPM and in order to run it needs AC frequency control through a VFD to properly start the motor from zero (the inverter/controller on the car). This is not a motor that is easy to start off straight grid power for large motors because going from nothing to 50/60hz is not really possible, so it would fail to start without assistance or a VFD to ramp up from 0 to operating frequency. TLDR: induction is typically best for performance. There's a reason single motor efficiency models of Tesla use a synchronous motor, but performance dual motor models swap the rear synchronous motor with an induction and put the synchronous up front. And why something like the S Plaid is all induction.

Looks awesome. You should try a real off road adventure to some mountain vista. Can these trucks make it there and back.

I think at some point it will be necessary for an EV truck to offer not only a physical locking apparatus but also a legitimate low range gear ratio. Even just on the rear, it doesn't need both ends to gear down but a second ratio would mean more torque before stall and likely a lot more low speed control. I crawl my old combustion 4x4's with little to no wheel spin ever, spin beats up the trail and wears out tires. I'd like to see EV's get on that level.

The wheels are being driven by what are essentially servos. Why not just put them in position control mode and cam into a virtual master that has speed governed by the throttle peddle. Position control loops can update at as fast as 100 microseconds. For all intents and purposes performance should be identical to a physical locker except for as Kyle says the torque being limited to the wheel that has contact. Maybe automotive inverters don't have the full capability set of an industrial servo drive?? Do they have encoders or resolvers on the wheels?

The advanced version of virtual "locking diff will be 4 way selectable traction that will be superior to just locking non locking manual differentials.

@Kyle / @Out of Spec Reviews ... What software version did you have on that Rivian during this comparison? I like those inclinometers!

Well, Rivian could implement a locking diff by setting up the motor control in a way that continuously varies the power going to each motor in order to achieve the same amount of speed on both wheels. You could even program it in a way that it's not trying to achieve 100% equal speeds but rather leave a 5-10% margin so that you can even leave the feature enabled while turning (simulating a limited split diff, which would even be an advantage over mechanical lockers). Furthermore, it would be possible to constantly vary the amount of acceptable wheel speed difference by taking the steering angle into consideration. Of course, not to over stress the motors, there would have to be some kind of a smoothing algorithm which would lead to some delay compared to the instantaneousness of a mechanical locker (though certainly a lot less than seen in this video), and also an overload shutoff, but for the most part, I think it should be ok. This wouldn't solve the issue of the power limitation of one motor, though, and that's the reason why the EQG gets a two speed transmission at each motor, leading to - if combine with great software - probably the perfect drivetrain for offloading!

I really want to head out there and see how my dual motor R1T with ATs handles that sort of terrain. Mostly to see how Rivian's software handles that on the dual motor.

Seems like Rivian will be adding a Tri-motor version to their 2025 R1 offering. More tests for Kyle!

Hey Kyle & Team, writing from Colorado. Lockers, torque distribution and stability controls are extremely important topics here as you of course understand, thanks for covering this topic on ~$100k trucks, you can't take dealership test-drive vehicle into these conditions. Honestly I lost hope in Virtual Lockers looking at Rivian and now Cybertruck, while easy in theory - just rotate the damn motors with same RPM no matter the load - no one still implemented properly. Not one manufacturer implemented virtual central locker for Dual Motor (front + rear) planforms: Tesla, Rivian, Ford, GM, others. For this reason I will only buy Dual-motor EV truck with durable electro-mechanical lockers. Cybertruck Dual-Motor is much more appealing to me than Tri-Motor for this simple reason. If you **like** driving and you live in state like Colorado where we get 4 seasons few times a week, you need absolute predictability from the drivetrain on Snow, Ice, Dirt, Sand, creek crossing. Wdyt?

It would be interesting to see what the Cybertruck would do if you simply unbolted the sway bar links as is commonly done with Jeeps.

Are motors generally limited by their amp capacity fed to them or is it the battery output that's the limiting factor? I can envision the four motor setup having excess torque capacity that can't be fully realized by the battery pack. However, if the vehicle is stuck and now needs one motor to be "maxed out", the battery pack can easily handle it and possibly overdrive that motor with amperage, if allowed. Maybe they need to call this "overboost or overclock", similar to the Tesla track mode setting on the air conditioning compressor.

I want to have to get out in the rain, walk up to the wheel and turn the lock. 😅 Dual lockers for me

Teaching Kyle is much cooler than Competitive Kyle. Excellent tutorial video on the respective trucks and locking differentials. Very excited to get CyberTruck and these types of videos are great education for me in using the software while understanding what it is doing. Awesome Video!

Can you bring back the longer videos plz

Kyle I love your bed rack!! Tell me please who makes it ? And will it fit on my Lighting ! Thanx man

You guys should have swapped out the tires on the other trucks with some common AT tires. Overall good video!

Pretty interesting how each manufacturer handles this (for the

“Getting a motor to spin from 0 to 1 RPM is really tough. Getting it to spin from 5 to 10 RPM is much easier.” No, maximum torque in an electric motor is at 0 RPM, and so it’s just the opposite, but for all practical purposes the torque is high at any of these low RPM values. Still, your main point is a good one: powering only one wheel with one motor (of 2 or 3) in an EV results in less power than in an ICE vehicle with locking differential.